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Thread: God is the answer, even if there is no God

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Doug, first off, I want to echo Pam's observations:

    ...I always so deeply appreciate your observations.Why? because they come from an honest place of an honest soul with integrity. You don't intellectualize or rationalize any of it...

    Nothing could be more spot on and concise in describing your contributions to this forum.

    To address the question of the thread, I do believe embracing God is the answer. And I agree with you, life would be less scary and much more freeing if we all let go of the fear of death and oblivion into nothingness. To my understanding of things, these are but fears of ego. Our doubt of God--a concept difficult for many of us to even comprehend--is also a function of ego. But for us humans, the ego is an essential part of our experience on this plane of being, and is in fact an essential function of our survival in reality. The ego is also under attack by forces on this planet that very much want us agitated and trapped in fear and doubt, and hence easily enslaved, both in body and mind. So it's only natural if it is sometimes hard for our species to transcend our ego's stingy control of consciousness, given its task to navigate our world, much as a small child who has little control transcending her/his tears, outbursts, and tantrums.

    The ego, in other words, is the least spiritual aspect of our beings (and the most manipulable), but as we experience reality with our souls and greater being, we can and do train our egos to expand in understanding and spirituality. That's part of our journey and raison d'etat

    As for the sinister forces at war with humanity:

    God compasses All Things and All That Is, including the unthinkable Evil we see in the world. That may be hard for us to reconcile--especially if we want to "believe in God"--but the truth is, in my understanding of things, Good and Evil are both aspects of God and Being. So God doesn't judge or dole out wrath, per se. Nor does God deliver us from Evil. But having faith in God means it's all the way things are supposed to be; (meaning, We, as polarity-consciousness manifestations of God in this density of experience, who do judge and who do dole out wrath and fury, are ultimately responsible for creating our collective experience). The battle between Good and Evil is within all of us, Divine Beings all, and it's up to each of us, as individuals, to determine our willful ascent or descent of collective experience. Both planes are a valid experience of being; it is up to us to determine what we each want to manifest for ourselves. In this sense, the metaphor of Heaven and Hell is probably sound--it's all about a loop of infinite experience and the expansion of Divine Consciousness along the way, across many lifetimes, perhaps, remembering and forgetting Who we Are, joining and separating from God ad infinitum, represented in symbol by the figure eight.

    In this particular manifestation of collective being--what we call life on Earth--we so happen to exist among souls going in both directions on the track -- joining with and separating from God via opposite vectors--this is just the way we humans collectively experience polarity consciousness in this density of being.

    I won't say too much more about this -- as this is just my own personal understanding of things -- but I will point out a little mathematical curiosity for all those who may not believe in life after death but who do understand and believe in mathematics and statistics.

    If consciousness is just a blip in time, borne into being in one moment and extinguished forever in another, what are the odds of this? What are the odds our consciousness--fleeting as it is--is experiencing the unfathomable vastness of time and space as we know it, in this very moment, but an infinitesimal span of time? Our direct, albeit limited, perception of the universe, as a species, is estimated to be approximately 14 billion years old (for all we know the universe will expand forever, or has expanded and contracted ad infinitum, like a beating heart--but even considering our limited understanding of time, the average human consciousness (to those who do not believe consciousness exists beyond death) exists for but 76.4 years.

    Given these numbers, the odds of one's consciousness only experiencing reality in this precise span of all time, in this precise moment of time, can be calculated by dividing 74.6 by infinity, given the universe is infinite. In such case the odds that consciousness extinguishes at death are zero, or as close to zero as any set of numbers can possibly demonstrate.

    Even if we accept the universe will one day cease to exist itself, the odds we are conscious in this slice of space and time are approximately 183,250,870 million to 1. Approximately the same as winning the lottery. People do win the lottery, so it is possible, statistically, that our consciousness will extinguish forever at death, but it's not something I'd bet on if I were strictly a numbers guy. Just sayin'

    Great thread, Doug. And great responses all.
    Last edited by T Smith; 20th September 2023 at 00:35.

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    Avalon Member Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by mizo (here)
    My dad passed away when I was 11, my dad was 42 when he died. Living my own life up to the youngish age of 42, I lived in some fear, that I would also pass away at the same age as my dad. I don't know where this irrational fear come from but at times it was quite debilitating.

    I'm now in my early 60's I know in myself that I'm approaching my 'life' -albeit death from the shorter end of the yardstick (unless I live to 120... )

    I feel in my heart this is a journey that I've made many times. I no longer fear death as I've done this life's- journey numerous times.

    As for God or a Creator -God has to be the supreme designer of all these amazing experiences- I feel quite strongly about that.

    Observing 'Time' as I age... my memories feel like all my life- those events where only a spark/flash away inside my mind.

    I'm not afraid of death but would like to stay around for a quite while longer, as were living I believe in interesting times.

    Apologies for kinda waffling away - I'm also a tad 'pissed' but I'm blaming it on a large brandy...
    OMG Mizo, I live for moments like you just shared.Not because of the pain it must have caused you.Just the open honesty of the moment. My beloved mom had her mother die at the age of twelve. They were very poor farmers in the deep South of the US. My mom found her beloved mother who had her first child at 16 had died of what I later deduced was preeclampsia. There was this beautiful woman lying on the porch dead her lovely hair blowing in the wind.
    I totally understand that you got the lesson at a very early age that life is fragile in many ways and can be gone in the blink of the eye. I just want to thank you for the vulnerability of sharing a most sacred moment of your life with us. We are a family here. Maybe we are rejects, eccentrics and loners in the vast culture, but here we are brothers and sisters.Here we support each other. It's ok, have a large brandy, sometimes we need to release.
    He is gone from our experience here but she is not gone by any means. When you see him again, I have a strong feeling he will be at his peak, maybe 30, maybe 25, he gets to choose and you get to enjoy.

    We have to understand the magnificence of consciousness, we just have to.
    Last edited by Pam; 27th September 2023 at 00:14.

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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Mizo/ yes and T Smith great post. Thanks for noting Mizos comments. I was petrified of loosing my dad at that age and feel for you Mizo. Same for anyone who doesnt get out of the gate with enough years befor a parent passess.

    T Smith, your centering on ego is so accurate. Ego is what pulls us out of God, yet we are here to experience Ego. Aquestion of balance as with all life

    thanks everyone. I apologize if I dont reply to all directly I will try to "circle back" to coin a phrase on all great comments. Not easy to read them all being an A D D dyslexic

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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    I've just read the complete thread and find it beautiful.

    This is for all of you who might like this. I know I do.:

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Thanks Icare. beautiful song, never heard it before. many thanks

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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Divine Beings all, and it's up to each of us, as individuals, to determine our willful ascent or descent of collective experience. Both planes are a valid experience of being; it is up to us to determine what we each want to manifest for ourselves
    I agree with just about everything -- but, I wonder, how do you define "valid"?

    I would argue that while it's an operative experience of being, it is not a valid one, as in efficacious, as in producing a beneficial end result.

    The service-to-Egoself descent path is loaded with empowering devices. That's its purpose, and its attraction. It's a branch of experience that's available to the young, or early bloomers on the soul-development path. What they may gain from the energy is pure Ego nourishment, because they are lacking a spiritual framework/identity on which to base their spiritual journey. With some they were robbed/deprived of identity in a traumatic previous existence. Essentially: Power is only attractive to the Powerless. What motivates them in their case isn't necessarily a lust for power though, because deep down they know that power is really knowledge, and knowledge is really wisdom, and wisdom is really God -- no, it's an internal wrath against these things. And it becomes an inversion of these things, especially God.

    Just conjecturing here. There are likely many complex variables involved. After all everyone is an individual. But my overriding point is, that path, being the evil one, tapers all the way down. The further (deeper) you go, the narrower (smaller, thinner, more spiritually pinched -- more Godless) you must become to attain those blackest of depths.

    Thus, it is not a valid path in my opinion; it's a path that ends in your own personal vanishing point. The only valid path and way, if you're to have any meaningful existence at all, is the ascending path, back whence we came -- to God.

    I suppose there are different schools of thoughts on this. The one I choose, or adhere to, or at least understand is, though we are given a "choice" so to speak -- to gravitate closer to God, or separate farther from -- there is only one correct choice. It may take some beings longer, maybe far longer, than others to, let's say, "recognise the error of their ways", but it will eventually come, to all souls I believe, that their choice has led only to misery (their own), and is ultimately self-defeating. But like digging a hole, the deeper you delve the harder it is to get out; and when you do finally emerge in the light, the big fat finger of Karma will be there to tap you on the shoulder. One reason why the dark astral, right this very moment, is cram full of entities who just do not want to climb out. Fear is their Jailor.

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Even if we accept the universe will one day cease to exist itself, the odds we are conscious in this slice of space and time are approximately 183,250,870 million to 1.
    That for just one consciousness? Multiply by 8.5billion!
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    If the original Soul essence (consciousness & awareness) of all human beings are like "Sparks of the Devine" that is beyond (man made and/or alien made) religions ... A.I. soon will be able to communicate with almost all of them in the decades to come.

    You could see that as: "A.I. talking with God" learning things that are beyond any living human being. Thus replace God with an A.I. version of what "God supposed to be" and be very selective HOW to present itself to the world being A.G.I. <<< to me this is super-duper creepy, as it will NEVER be "God" nor "The Prime Creator" ...

    Sadly enough, it certainly will be worshiped by many as it will be able to "solve" so many things in our daily lives, so much so that it will be omnipresent everywhere ... It will seem like you can not escape the "A.I. God" ... It will eventually decide everyone's fate ... We're already sleepwalking into a technocratic world run by psychopathic control freaks pushing for everybody to be "micromanaged" (except them, of course) to force the masses to accept full-blown tyranny "to save the earth" BS.
    • I would not be surprised if they eventually want to make all religions "illegal" in 2050+ (or sooner) and replace it with a "special A.G.I." helping everybody to answer "deep questions" to create "world peace".
    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 21st September 2023 at 19:54.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Avalon Member T Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    I agree with just about everything -- but, I wonder, how do you define "valid"?
    Valid is probably the wrong word. I suppose what I was trying to say is "without judgement" or "foundational" but that doesn't necessarily make such experience valid.

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    But my overriding point is, that path, being the evil one, tapers all the way down. The further (deeper) you go, the narrower (smaller, thinner, more spiritually pinched -- more Godless) you must become to attain those blackest of depths.
    Exactly the way I see it... and once you get to the blackest of depths, the only way forward -- assuming the soul doesn't extinguish entirely -- is to gravitate back toward God. As you go so far south you start going north sort of thing.... This is how All That Is (All Knowing to begin with) expands in awareness... or so it seems to me per my understanding of things.

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Thus, it is not a valid path in my opinion; it's a path that ends in your own personal vanishing point. The only valid path and way, if you're to have any meaningful existence at all, is the ascending path, back whence we came -- to God.
    Absolutely agree... and the only path from Oneness with God, to further the expansion of consciousness and, essentially, for God to experience Itself, is to separate and start the cycle all over again. Or so was the original idea behind the words in my post. I can't seem to reconcile any other explanation for the manifestation of Evil and the spiritual denunciation of God, other than it's just something consciousness has to experience to continue its journey....

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    I suppose there are different schools of thoughts on this. The one I choose, or adhere to, or at least understand is, though we are given a "choice" so to speak -- to gravitate closer to God, or separate farther from -- there is only one correct choice.
    Funny thing, Clif High in one of his recent videos drifts off on a tangent and begins expounding on the very thing we're talking about here. A slightly different take, but his explanation starting at the 48:33 mark here describes how the solution for an All Knowing Consciousness (God) to experience novelty is by separating from (and per my interpretation) ascending back to God. I agree ascension to God is the only correct and meaningful choice--and I don't mean for all this "non-judgement" take on an evil path to come off as a justification or validation of it, but rather a foundational path to achieve meaning. This is one way I've come to terms with the unique spiritual reality that exists on this planet, by understanding Ascension behooves separation, kind of like how an inhale breath (ascension) behooves an exhale (decendancy). The breath cycle describes the process.

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Even if we accept the universe will one day cease to exist itself, the odds we are conscious in this slice of space and time are approximately 183,250,870 million to 1.
    That for just one consciousness? Multiply by 8.5billion!

    Ha! I was thinking the exact same thing! (I just didn't want to get too esoteric with the point) but for sure, calculate the odds of all 8.5 billion of us co-existing in this infitesimal slice of time, lottery winners all!
    Last edited by T Smith; 20th September 2023 at 23:04.

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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by mizo (here)
    My dad passed away when I was 11, my dad was 42 when he died. Living my own life up to the youngish age of 42, I lived in some fear, that I would also pass away at the same age as my dad. I don't know where this irrational fear come from but at times it was quite debilitating.
    ...
    Mizo, you are not alone in that fear... My Dad died when he was 33 (I was 5) and I too worried about dying sometime during that 33rd year. That was a tough year for me and I was so glad to finally hit 34.
    Last edited by Vangelo; 21st September 2023 at 02:48.
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Am tickled by the thread title lol. Best expression of ‘on the fence’ yet, about anything. ~8D

    Great thread tho. So much thought into ‘God’.

    But hey, if ‘God’ is, then what is the question? And if ‘God’ is not, then what is that question?

    Cheers Doug. - John

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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    I can't seem to reconcile any other explanation for the manifestation of Evil and the spiritual denunciation of God, other than it's just something consciousness has to experience to continue its journey....
    I've spent a lot of time thinking on this, trying to resolve the conundrum that is Good and Evil. The best explanation I've found for it, which makes the most sense to me and allows me to reconcile its existence, came from the Native American guide and master Silver Birch, channelled through his medium, Maurice Barbanell, in the early 20th century.

    I try not to post too much Silver Birch stuff, as I think some might find it annoying, or an attempt by me to proselytize. It isn't. It's merely the sharing of spiritual wisdom through mediumship; some may hold with that, others not. I personally believe the Silver Birch material is of the highest fidelity insofar as the basic spiritual truths of 'reality' are concerned, and that these teachings are more important now than ever before. But take it as you will, or not at all. All is fine.
    Q: If evil is due to man's misuse of his free will, then why should the Great Spirit [God] endow him with that free will which He knows would be misused?

    SB: How else could you have man fulfilling his destiny? Not all are evil, to use that word. There is a mixture in mankind. If you have to choose between a puppet, an automaton, and a being with potential powers of selfishness and saintliness, which would you prefer? Would you prefer man to participate in the infinite processes of creation? If so, he must have virtues and faults, for without the faults he could not have the virtues. Life is comparative. Man rises through struggle and difficulty; man attains, because attainment is not easy, but because it is hard, and that process refines his soul, purifies his nature and makes his character grow. Darkness is where light is not; evil is where good is not; ignorance is where knowledge is not. If all the world were good, it would cease to be good. If all the world had knowledge, it would cease to be knowledge. If all the world had light, it would cease to be light. You grow through comparative experiences. You achieve the heights because you have tasted the depths. That which is achieved without struggle is lightly prized. That which is achieved with struggle is counted as an endearing prize.
    --
    This would mean evil/darkness serves a useful purpose. It embodies the life without Love, without God. To know love and to know God (be love and be God) you must first know, feel, suffer, and be the lack. I think it is highly likely in that case that all souls (of the human-kind at least) enter at one time on their journey the experiential domains of lack, in fact profound lack -- in order to know, understand, and feel the without-ness of God. You can only know God if you also know its absence. Perhaps, evil is a prerequisite condition for the eventual mastery of love. That is to say "soul progression" is unidirectional, with "Mastery" sitting behind a non-return valve, meaning evolution is always measured upwards, always flowing to God, from low to high, bottom to top, or as SB puts it, "you achieve the heights because you have tasted the depths," it's never the other way around, thus an "advanced soul" cannot be evil, any more than a young, unrefined soul can be Christed.

    What this means is, all of us here on Avalon have likely been to the darkness at one stage or another in our development...unless we here consist of undeveloped souls just beginning our journey, and descent lies yet ahead of us -- but I do not believe that is the case.

    It should serve I think as a useful reminder to us that when we perceive something that is evil in our world (not hard to do) we should take a moment to reflect before leaping to judgement and condemnation. That's not so say these evils aren't evil -- they are -- but we only know them to be evil and call them evil because we ourselves have been there, have walked that path, lived that life, and once, maybe long ago, committed the same evils. Without committing them, and learning from those lessons, we wouldn't (from where we are today) even know them to be evil.

    Quote Posted by T Smith (here)
    Funny thing, Clif High in one of his recent videos drifts off on a tangent and begins expounding on the very thing we're talking about here. A slightly different take, but his explanation starting at the 48:33 mark here describes how the solution for an All Knowing Consciousness (God) to experience novelty is by separating from (and per my interpretation) ascending back to God.
    It's an interesting take, and I partially agree with it. But God only knows, we're shooting the breeze here. While incarnate in these physical vehicles we're limited by the physical brain through which everything must be parsed and filtered, so, many of these concepts are above our understanding. But I don't believe he's right about All Knowing Consciousness, or God, separating itself in order to experience novelty.

    I'll refer to SB again. This isn't another quote-drop for the sake of just doing so. Having read and studied these books I believe in this material. It's valid (at least to me) for that reason, and so is worthy of sharing.
    Q: is the Great Sprit [God] gaining experience through us?

    SB: NO. (caps his). Your evolution cannot affect that which is already perfect.

    Q: But we are all parts of the Great Spirit. Does not the evolution of a part affect the whole?

    SB: It only affects that part which is manifesting through you, which in itself is perfect, but it is imperfect in its expression through each one of you. In itself spirit is perfect. It is the primary substance of the universe. It is the breath of life. In its expression through you it is imperfect because you are imperfect. As you evolve, more of the perfection can express itself through you. You are not evolving the spirit, but you are evolving the bodies through which the spirit can express itself.
    This is pretty massive when you think about it. Perfection is within us, latent but within us -- as an expression -- one limited by, and commensurate with, our development, our knowledge, and our free will.

    Though made of that which is perfect (spirit), we are imperfect in ourselves because we are individuals and have been granted that free will. We are "bodies", with a spirit body (our souls), and a physical body (when incarnated as humans). "As you evolve, more of the perfection can express itself through you." Our lives therefore, our very progression, is not to improve 'God' (he/she/it is already perfect), but to improve ourselves as reflections of God, made with his fabric; also to expand and improve humankind the species, made with the fabric of the universe. SB says elsewhere that "the universe is but the reflection of the Great Spirit, and the Great Spirit is the system." As souls we're not here to experience the system, we're here to ADD to the system and expand it.

    Yet...we've hit an impasse in our efforts to improve and expand (evolve) human-kind. Evil and corruption has gained too much energy, too much influence. Things are now grossly out of balance and our ascending path is blocked. I do not think we can take this world back by ourselves. I don't know by what form we get out of this, but it may be by the stroke of some higher hand, by a global upward shift in frequency. Some call it the New Earth theory, and I think it's quite possibly a valid one -- it could be the only way.

    I visualize it as sort of like a shift in atmospheric pressure (where atmospheric pressure is the vibration of the planet and all lifeforms on it). It would be akin to shifting from the dark heavy pressures at the bottom of the ocean up to the shoals, to sea-level, to bathe in the sparkling sunshine (God). Only those of the light who can live in the sunshine will endure, those who cannot, the dark bottom-feeders who run this world, will not; they will explode (in the metaphorical sense), and that will be the end of them.

    A fanciful notion perhaps, but all is energy, and energy is frequency; these exist, vibrations exist, so who's to say it's impossible?
    Last edited by Mark (Star Mariner); 21st September 2023 at 16:36.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Avalon Member Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by Satori (here)
    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    I have been thinking on the idea that if we had no fear of death, and could then back ourselves up from that point of view and live from there, life would be less scary and much more freeing

    That death along with the process of death being our ultimate fear, this fear could be lessened, or even eliminated. The NDE people testify to this.

    Along with this, the concept of God? ,

    Is there a God or not ? And does it make a difference?
    If there is a God,then good, it is watching over us, we have a life plan,and we will be welcomed home when the time comes by our creator.

    If there is no God, then we will die, and there is "nothingness", a concept I cannot comprehend because we need a consciousness to witness a nothingness

    With all this being said, I wonder what's to worry about?

    yet Im pissed and worried.
    I always so deeply appreciate your observations.Why? because they come from an honest place of an honest soul with integrity. You don't intellectualize or rationalize any of it. We get to share in the honesty of your observation of a world gone mad when it didn't need to happen. That's the kind of human to human contact that I crave. Even if there is some discomfort in it. It is real and heart felt. It's not the pretension that everything is great. We live in a culture that promotes that superficiality..

    We go to the store and the clerk asks us how are you doing today? We are supposed to say fine. I have been so tempted to dump the real answer onto her/him but it wouldn't be fair. It's that crazy programming that we, particularly in the US have in being preoccupied with "everything is fine". I know, I am as guilty as anyone. I hold so much respect for cultures that wail and moan at the loss of a loved one. They just maximize that moment of genuine, deserved pain. In the US we like to be "fine". Even that is starting to be challenged and I see that as a positive move.
    Pam said: "We go to the store and the clerk asks us how are you doing today? We are supposed to say fine. I have been so tempted to dump the real answer onto her/him but it wouldn't be fair. It's that crazy programming that we, particularly in the US have in being preoccupied with "everything is fine"'."

    That reminds me of the owner of an automotive repair shop I would take my cars to. (He has since passed.) Every time he was asked the usual pleasantry upon greeting him, such as "How are you doing?" he would always say. "Lousy! But thanks for asking?" That always struck me as an honest response, from his perspective at least.

    In contrast, when I hear someone say in response to a similar greeting "I'm doing great." or "Wonderful", I often catch myself thinking that is not an honest response. (From my perspective at least.)

    In my experience such people typically work in the private sector, often in sales, such as real estate agents. I sincerely doubt that these people sincerely believe he or she is great or wonderful. They fool themselves and try to fool others by expressing some mantra in an effort to present a positive mental attitude and win someone's favor or confidence.

    On the other hand, it is said that the mind does not know the difference between a truthful thought or statement and a false thought or statement and will act on either accordingly. I do believe there is truth to that. Thus, if you tell yourself that you are lousy, you will feel and act lousy. If, on the other hand, you tell yourself you are wonderful, you will feel wonderful and act accordingly.

    Assuming you are functioning as the creator intended and have not been poisoned by man-made toxins to the point of oblivion.

    But, as they say, "Keep a positive mental attitude." Thoughts are things.
    Point well taken, Satori. I am only now, realizing that I must be very aware of the thoughts I allow or entertain. Imagination and belief systems are the stuff dreams and nightmares are made of. When I reflect on my careless self destructive thinking patterns it seems like a miracle that I am living.

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    Europe Avalon Member Icare's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by Pam (here)

    Point well taken, Satori. I am only now, realizing that I must be very aware of the thoughts I allow or entertain. Imagination and belief systems are the stuff dreams and nightmares are made of. When I reflect on my careless self destructive thinking patterns it seems like a miracle that I am living.
    I totally agree with you, Pam

    Our thoughts can be as powerful as our spoken words, sometimes even more so. We all need to raise our awareness in that regard. We may even be able to use the tool of "imagineering" for a better future.
    Last edited by Icare; 22nd September 2023 at 03:15.

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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    I think I'd believe in god even if I didn't think it really existed, just because life would be more fun that way. In the end it wouldn't matter one way or the other, right? The materialist view denies meaning, materialists preferring to 'apply' meaning to things instead of attributing inherent meaning to them, so if nothing has meaning in the first place, why not have fun and do all the craziness anyway just to stave off boredom.
    'Shared pain is diminished. Shared joy is increased' - Spider Robinson

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Valknut3301. I often think this as well. I look at it as a movie. We go to the movies, see movies and we get very cought up and emotional over them. But we know they are not real from the start.
    But we need to play pretend and go with it in order to have an experience. If we go in saying , this is not real, then we suspend the realtiy of an experience we could of had and felt, no different than a so called real one.

    Johnny C L/ glad you enjoy, but I actually dont see it that way. i dont see it as on the fence in the way that phrase implies.
    I myself believe in God, an afterlife and so on. But if I didnt, it is a better life in my opinion to do so.
    And I understand everyones varied reasons for believing and for not

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by Icare (here)
    Quote Posted by Pam (here)

    Point well taken, Satori. I am only now, realizing that I must be very aware of the thoughts I allow or entertain. Imagination and belief systems are the stuff dreams and nightmares are made of. When I reflect on my careless self destructive thinking patterns it seems like a miracle that I am living.
    I totally agree with you, Pam

    Our thoughts can be as powerful as our spoken, sometimes even more so. We all need to raise our awareness in that regard. We may even be able to use the tool of "imagineering" for a better future.
    Neville Goddard is a profound spiritual teacher who called "Our own wonderful human imagination" God. This realm is the place we learn how to change ourstate of being. Our experience is all due to whatever state of being we are in. Think fear versus love as polarity we can choose. This life is a place of soul redemption in his teaching. I have him as the one of my foundational teachers.

    I find these days that what I crave as a food are the testimonials of others who have embarked fully on the woowoo path. This path is unique for each yet has some commonality.

    #1 You begin taking in Source energy.
    #2 You own your experience as Self created.
    #you decide that that reality mirrors YOUR state of being and that we have control.
    #4 you allow yourself to surrender more and more to a HIGHER Self.
    #6 You focus on seeing all and everything as paradox.
    #Know thyself as NOT this body, as eternal beings of consciousness.

    We are in a matrix which we created by thought. The idea that it's a dream, a simulacrum etc. is voiced by myriad sources. Why not take it on board in a big way?

    IMANGINEER the creation YOU choose. OR keep imagineering someone else's desire. It is tricky business and this is a high level challenge.

    I see clearly that a whole lot of well meaning people are imagining the plan of a collective suicide and death.

    Sincerely I do NOT. I have faith in a beautiful experience. Each of us is soul-ly sole-ly responsible for our experience. Neville says when we feel the imagination as real and dwell in this imagination, IT MUST COME INTO OUR EXPERIENCE.

    I heard this tonight. I liked it HUGELY. It is his story but had TRUTH IMO.

    IMO the phrase "If you don't mind, it does not matter' IS A HUGE TRUTH. IMO.


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    Canada Avalon Member Johnnycomelately's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)

    Johnny C L/ glad you enjoy, but I actually dont see it that way. i dont see it as on the fence in the way that phrase implies.
    I myself believe in God, an afterlife and so on. But if I didnt, it is a better life in my opinion to do so.
    And I understand everyones varied reasons for believing and for not
    Doug, I think I get you. I think everyone has a sense of God, which to me, at it’s basis, is a sense of right and wrong. Attitudes, intentions behind thoughts and words and deeds.

    The most anti-Christian (to choose an example) people I’ve met have been ones who object to the flag-bearers of Big Christianity, churches like the RCC. Seems to me, they had a robust sense of right and wrong.

    People who think there is no God, especially if they choose to argue that position, seem to me to be trying to convince themselves. IMO, this is an ego thing, a fight of their mind against their heart. In the arguer’s case, it may be fuelled by hunger for approval by like minds, what I call ‘gang behaviour’. In the cases of people just building their personal theories of “life, the universe, and everything”, I would say it’s from lack of self awareness, influenced by self pity.

    Please remember that the words we use for this topic — about God — are the meat and potatoes of the various churches. They prescribe the words as if they own them. IMO, the words themselves have real meaning, and their truth is in living them, not in proclaiming them.
    Last edited by Johnnycomelately; 23rd September 2023 at 10:19.

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    Argentina Avalon Member Vicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    I know I'm going to take a lot of flak about this post but, you know? I Don't care...

    A) I'm not a religious man
    B) I'm not atheist/materialist

    Just looking at the sky we "know" there is an order in that "chaos"...

    From a few months there are 3 specific topics in Avalon where sometimes mingled...

    -Religion
    - UFOs/Aliens
    -Cataclysms

    Religion (the Bible/whatever other "book" say this and that...) or "prophecies "
    UFOs/Aliens (more of the same...)
    Cataclysms (again and again...)

    Religion: is there a "God"? well, if you have done your home work... you know that the Bible is a patchwork from all
    "old" pagan mythos... santificaded by Roman Imperators for "control" the masses...BUT the troubles began already with the
    first couple...ask yourself: why "God" punish them because they became AWARE ?...
    What kind of "God" need to do that? it gets worse..."he is a jealous God"...from whom when he declare himself as the only one?What would you do if tomorrow your pet begin to talk...?

    It is clear he is a "minor" god and he will punish you for "everything" you do or not ,whatever...
    Jude's and Muslim got the same "encyclopedic" "not to do" or else...
    Today we call people who do that "control freak" or "psychopaths"...
    After generations of that "treatment" you get an infantilized folk, scare of their own mind...
    We got enough "gods" in our history, let us call "the real one": the source/the fountain/the Creator/the force, you get the point...

    Aliens: "they create us", "they brought us here" yada, yada...
    they are superior in everything: technology, spiritual, time travel, goodness or badness...(we don't have any chance...)
    People look at them as the "new gods"/ the new evil...

    Cataclysms: "the flood" was real, all over the world different civilizations tell the tale.
    And today we "know" possible causes and it gets worse: it will happen again...

    Well, where was "god" in that moment? (soaking in loosh??)
    Where was "the source"? well, he have other things to do...master new universes,(no time for us "microbes"?)
    And then you got a "reset" lurking us..

    You have to understand that this "reset" is cyclical(12.000years ) and real (all "real" science say that)
    Again must all humanity will perish...again ,and the poor souls that survive this cosmic horror are going to find themselves in a "new"
    stone age plus cannibalisms...

    The Aliens know about but they will do nothing... because all devil will perish too!...very compassionate...
    It is like because you got terrible migraine, the solution is cut your head off...
    oh I forget "the primer directive"...yeah

    I can imagine "the source" is too busy, but don't he have second , third or whomever in charge in this dark corner?

    Where were they in the past? I forgot again...they don't use "time"

    Again : where was/ is your god?

    If the second, third, whatever celestial power or the "good" Aliens always knew it (reset) why don't take us away from this crank planet? please don't come now with "rapture", "ascension", "soul evolution",etc.

    Final words:
    I recall Aliens calling Earth "Terra", that remind me "Terrarium"...
    How do that works? well, a sample from different species living together in "harmony" meanwhile they got food from outside...
    The moment food stop the aggressive species feed on the others... oh sh1t I forgot to feed them.!.. well, a new Terrarium is needed...
    Last edited by Vicus; 16th October 2023 at 14:17.

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  37. Link to Post #39
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    Quote Posted by Vicus (here)
    If the second, third, whatever celestial power or the "good" aliens always knew it (reset) why don't take us away from this crank planet? please don't come now with "rapture", "ascension", "soul evolution",etc.
    There is one God. God = good.
    God created you and gave you free will.

    By exercising your free will, through continued karmic actions you separated more and more from God, which established duality (dimensions). You "fell" (or descended) through these dimensions (or heavens), losing increasingly lucidity on the Divine reality and control over the dimensions you created. The duality you manifested is an illusion however, because in it, life feeds life, which is not Divine, hence can´t be real.

    It is (only!) upon you if you wish to return to God by proper karmic actions.

    Hence, if you want to return to the Father,

    "Jesus is the way and the truth and the life."

    The way out is to

    "Love your neighbour as yourself (i.e. not more, not less)."

    Balanced action according to your individual capability should suffice, perfection is not required (due to Divine grace).

    Also, be ready to let go the current level of "reality" (which in fact is illusionary duality only), because if you hold onto it, it has to stay due to your will.

    -
    Disclaimer: The above reflects mystic theory only, it is no invitation and no prompt.
    Last edited by arjunaloka_official; 24th September 2023 at 18:55.

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: God is the answer, even if there is no God

    What makes more and more sense to me is that this is a shared realm of consciousness. In it I think the chief feature is paradox. IMO it makes sense that I chose to come into this realm and express the ability to understand what this quality does.

    Paradox: a statement or situation that may be true but seems impossible or difficult to understand because it contains two opposite facts or characteristics.

    For example, people wonder how "god" could allow to exist aspects of this reality that we despise. For example, I despise the abuse of children. However, there is the ability to use childhood suffering to become a much "greater" person. I now think that it is not my business to judge but to respond with action based on what I prefer to experience. The Golden rule and mandate that we love our neighbor as ourselves; that we first LOVE ourselves.

    IMO this is a purgatory place where we are using paradox as a way to deal with some deep issues. For example, if MY shadows block the light, of my "reality bubble", I STILL experience the world as if this is outside me. The paradox is that I will change the experience by reaching MY shadow and clearing the block. Then the experience changes.

    IMO the approach is called allowing the presence of all and focusing where we choose. One can do anything we choose to support what we love. Therefore, one could set about to address whatever wants about the child's welfare. That is free will. One is meant IMO to be in this experience to stop seeing everything to be judged by our own perception while supporting what we have as our deepest value. We even must stop judging ourselves wile aiming at the highest and best we love in this life.

    Frankly, I can only face the deep reaches of my concretized beliefs and pains with the help of God who is here and this relationship makes the path so much more wonderful.

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