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Thread: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Funny how all the world's media encourages Israel's retaliation, but when terror attacks happen in Europe we're fed meaningless platitudes that "Love, not hate" is the answer. Israel can bomb their enemies while weak Europeans are forced to hug theirs.

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I see targeting of civilians, which would not be militarily strategic by Hamas. Very strange tactic, very suspicious, Palestinians could not possibly gain anything from this. However, it is excellent strategy for Mossad, to rally Israel and crush Palestine.

    I also see the missile damage on the road must have involved some sort of sophisticated targeting systems, not old USA-made shells repaired and reused or pipe bomb rockets. There is no way on earth that Hamas was able to target all of the cars on that road with such deadly accuracy using homemade and repurposed shells as rockets. No way.

    It looks as if the entire thing was orchestrated by Mossad. Strong similarities to 9/11, where the US Air Force and NORAD let it all happen.

    (I have always been on the Palestinians side, and have watched the Israeli military and Mossad commit horrific acts - from target-practice sniper murders to spraying Palestinian villages with raw sewage to cutting down olive orchards to bulldozing Rachel Corrie trying to protect a Palestinian home. I have never seen the PLO or Hamas waging war on a bunch of civilians - it has usually been a homemade rocket or two shot uncontrollably at Israel - landing wherever. I certainly do not condone massacring civilians and simply cannot believe that what we are seeing is actually orchestrated by Hamas as there is no way they could "win" anything, and they would know that the retaliation will be enormous and devastating. Goodbye Palestine.

    re the last two bolded words....

    turning the Gaza Strip into rubble and then mopping up + removing the remaining Palestinians with a ground invasion is the easy part, militarily speaking......

    dealing with the aftermath and the millions and millions of angry muslims in surrounding countries is not so easy - especially bearing in mind their beliefs about martyrdom and willingness to die for their cause... as a last resort I can even see millions of unarmed muslims arriving on foot from the surrounding area amassing on the Israel borders and then invading - sheer numbers giving them the advantage...

    looking at a map of the area - Jordan is crucial to Israel's security and I had a quick look to see what the situation is there -

    this article from August 2022 says that....

    Quote As for Jordanian public opinion, Al Rantawi stresses that Jordanians are overwhelmingly united on this issue; around 87 percent of the population consider Israel to be the biggest threat to the Arab region's security and view Israel as a dangerous enemy.
    I'm not taking sides with all these latest developments - but what I'm getting round to saying is that 'Goodbye Palestine' could be followed by Goodbye Israel....the question is are we going to forced into WW3 by the Globalists (neo Fascists) before this happens... although modern Israel is less than 80 years old they will not want to give it up - a while back I saw something about Israel being earmarked to be the Capital/Centre of the (proposed) One World Government .... haven't seen anything about that since but it could be relevant to the politics and destruction in the Middle East in recent years............?

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)

    PLO or Hamas
    There are gaps in my knowledge here, and some fairly considerable, but, I'm certain Hamas were funded and trained by US/Israel/Mossad as a deterrent to the PLO (?).

    I need to dig further on that - super patchy there to be honest.

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by Libico (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Libico, I think these are extremely honest and correct observations, and from an insider! I wish you safe passage to The Netherlands!

    It has been very much the M.O. of Israel to goad a reaction and then overreact, pushing forward their plan to annihilate Palestinians and steal all of Palestine. "Slow motion genocide." Three steps forward, one step back.

    Israel controls everything going into Palestine, from food and medicine to cement. But somehow, somehow, there is suddenly a Palestinian Air Force of untralight powered gliders? A thousand rockets? Right!

    The CIA and Mossad created alQaeda in Syria, recruited, trained, armed them, gave satellite tactical advice, supplies, and reloaded their ammunition. The zealots and schmucks in alQaeda probably had no clue that they were just stooges. I suspect the same here - Hamas was probably infiltrated and controlled by the Mossad. Now, the 98% of Palestinians that are not part of Hamas will pay, with their lives. This is the biggest excuse for Israel to crush Palestine, ever. If Palestine isn't 100% wiped off the map, then the Israeli mlitary will occupy into all that is left of Palestine, and do what the American military did in Iraq: drag every male out of their house and execute them as "insurgents." I could also see Israel launching nuclear missiles into Iran, blaming Iran for Hamas. The Israeli deep state caused this, I'd bet a lot of shekels!
    Thanks Dennis - Hamas was actually created / allowed to thrive by Israel as a way to challenge Arafat's power but of course as they became more extreme and Israel had a chance to nip this in the bud but they didn't... having a rapid dog on your southern border is always a great thing for right wing politicians, for the paltry cost of a few civilian deaths each year they have a perpetual boogeyman hanging over the populace to keep the cycle of hatred and reliance on government going.

    I too empathize greatly with the Palestinian people and the **** they have to go through every day. It sickens me seeing the amount of suffering and the majority of Israelis continue to live in a simplified existence of we are good and they are bad. They may give lip service saying yeah the situation is complicated, but in the end it's a very simple equation of how they see the world.

    I've seen first hand humiliations and war crimes when I was a solider... at the time I'm ashamed to admit it didn't phase me, but that was part of my indoctrination (and the trauma post-2001 that led me to move to Israel to defend my people from the Islamist enemy), and even though it felt wrong I simply wasn't strong enough to deal with those feelings and go against the herd back then to say something.

    I will say that Hamas fighters truly are barbaric on the same level as ISIS and al-Qaeda - they are 100% a product of their environment and culture that is not allowed to progress to a more advanced state due to trauma and circumstance... how many of them have lost fathers, mothers, siblings and children? I know that if I were Gazan and grew up in a constant state of fear from bombings, seeing a little brother blown up or crushed under rubble, having my father slapped by an Israeli soldier in front me, all the while growing up in abject poverty, 99% chance I would turn out the same way. The viciousness of their actions clearly demonstrate that for many of them their humanity has been broken and have finally been given a chance to lash out at anything that closely represents their oppressors.

    Unfortunately I don't see a way out the current situation without erasing Hamas and giving the Palestinians the ability to govern themselves with leaders that aren''t fanatics... but that will involve even more death to Palestinian civilians as they are so enmeshed in their society and have no qualms about sacrificing half of Gaza for their agenda... and even if Hamas is wiped out, Hamas 2.0 will take their place since all that loss of life will radicalize the next group/generation.

    I truly think the only way we can ever possibly move forward is if Israel and it's citizens recognize the horror that we have inflicted on Palestinians and make great strides to make amends and help them rebuild themselves starting from infrastructure, economy, education, and eventually true independence which involves ceding territories (a tough sell with fundamentalists making up a significant minority of our population). Even if that happens perfectly, it will be a precarious transition and take at least a generation or two for blood to cool down from both sides. But Israel isn't anywhere near ready to do that soul searching - maybe I'm wrong and once the anger has passed over this new war there will be true reflecting (after much death on both sides) but I think the victim/self-defense paradigm is so strong in Israel that it will be very difficult to break it - we need to able to set aside our anger and pain and take responsibility for our part in perpetuating this endless conflict. Trauma can sometimes break these paradigms - time will tell if this will be enough to do this.

    Even Moshe Dayan, an ardent Zionist and one of Israel's founding leaders and military generals lived under no illusions of what we were doing to Palestinians - nowadays we just label everything as anti-semitism but what was said 60 years ago hold just as true today. I've copied an excerpt of a eulogy he gave for a settler that was murdered at the border of Gaza:

    Yesterday with daybreak, Roi was murdered. The quiet of a spring morning blinded him, and he did not see the stalkers of his soul on the furrow. Let us not hurl blame at the murderers. Why should we complain of their hatred for us? Eight years have they sat in the refugee camps of Gaza, and seen, with their own eyes, how we have made a homeland of the soil and the villages where they and their forebears once dwelt.
    Thankyou
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    There is NO WAY the mossad didn't see this coming. They let it happen, let their own people suffer it, like the ones in the festival and in all those villages, just to be able to declare war and finally and completelly annex the whole gaza, and probably even the whole Palestine.

    We're just moving closer and closer to a nuke going off in the middle east.

    Shame for the savages in both sides and anyone defending it.

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War


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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Mirror site source: https://wikileaks.jcvignoli.com/cabl...V1733#metadata

    From June 2007 and probably the most immediately relevant historical reference to current goings on is this one although the whole memo/cable is worth viewing:
    "Although not necessarily reflecting a GOI consensus view,
    Yadlin said Israel would be "happy" if Hamas took over Gaza because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state. He (Yadlin) dismissed the significance of an Iranian role in a Hamas-controlled Gaza "as long as they don't have a port."
    By taking over Gaza I assume them to mean the predominant military resistance.

    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Monday now, and so this week will be full of commentary and analysis (and invective, and propaganda, and hate ). Quite a good start may be this interview, a Palestinian named Ali Abunimah talking to Danny Haiphong for just over 45 minutes.

    Despite his name, Ali speaks 100% clear perfect English and sounds more British than American. He's measured, articulate, speaks slowly and carefully, and offers an excellent, detailed insight into the Palestinian perspective.

    The section from 25:00—35:00 may in particular be interesting to those (e.g. Erthevessel, see her post here ) who are honest to admit they need to catch up on some of the important and bloody 75 year background to all this. As with the real history of the Ukrainian conflict, this really does need to be understood by us all.


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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Hahaha hilarious title on this thread. This is a war in the same way as an MMA trained fighter with machine guns and machetes against a toddler with a cookie!
    Yes. I'd first merged Szymon's new thread with the existing Turmoil in Israel thread, and soon after realized that was definitely my mistake. So yesterday I UNmerged the thread, and recreated this new one with a provisional title. (We can easily amend that as events continue to unfold.)

    While Israel has tanks, satellites, fighter-bombers and nuclear weapons, and Hamas has guns, hang gliders and small quadcopter drones, the potential for a major Middle East war is right there — if Hezbollah enters the fight from Lebanon, and (God help us all) maybe even Syria, Egypt and/or Iran.

    It might just be a relative skirmish (in historical terms) which results in Gaza being razed to the ground by the retaliating Israelis. But if that were to happen, the Arab world, now smelling blood and Israeli weakness, might launch their own offensives. If that were to happen, then every bet would be off.


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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    I believe this is the orchestrated last ditch effort by the deep state to keep the petro dollar alive , chaos to pump the liquidity. Check out this which I think is very interesting, hang on this week , its going to be very interesting .
    The Debt Clock is now quoting verses from Revelation!!
    https://halturnerradioshow.com/index...rom-revelation

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by pyrangello (here)
    I believe this is the orchestrated last ditch effort by the deep state to keep the petro dollar alive , chaos to pump the liquidity. Check out this which I think is very interesting, hang on this week , its going to be very interesting .
    The Debt Clock is now quoting verses from Revelation!!
    https://halturnerradioshow.com/index...rom-revelation
    Talking of petrodollars... one thing in the equation is that there are huge gas reserves off the shore of Gaza. This has been a hot potato between Israel and the people of Gaza since their discovery as to who would have the right to extract it. Also there are huge off-shore gas and oil reserves from the coast of Sinai all the way up to the coast of Syria.

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    https://x.com/bennyjohnson/status/17...265964294?s=20





    https://x.com/WarClandestine/status/...996814699?s=20



    updated:

    https://x.com/TheWakeninq/status/171...566785347?s=20

    Last edited by mountain_jim; 9th October 2023 at 14:37.
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    ...

    ... very concise summary from David Icke:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	2023-10-08_13-12-35-David Icke.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	56.2 KB
ID:	52035


    Therefore, the inevitable, hyper logical conclusion:

    Name:  Russia Did It.png
Views: 654
Size:  400.3 KB


    ... ooopppsss... wrong narrative... this one's more lucrative:

    Name:  Iran Did It.png
Views: 657
Size:  516.4 KB
    Last edited by Gwin Ru; 9th October 2023 at 15:12.

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    Hahaha hilarious title on this thread. This is a war in the same way as an MMA trained fighter with machine guns and machetes against a toddler with a cookie!
    Yes. I'd first merged Szymon's new thread with the existing Turmoil in Israel thread, and soon after realized that was definitely my mistake. So yesterday I UNmerged the thread, and recreated this new one with a provisional title. (We can easily amend that as events continue to unfold.)

    While Israel has tanks, satellites, fighter-bombers and nuclear weapons, and Hamas has guns, hang gliders and small quadcopter drones, the potential for a major Middle East war is right there — if Hezbollah enters the fight from Lebanon, and (God help us all) maybe even Syria, Egypt and/or Iran.

    It might just be a relative skirmish (in historical terms) which results in Gaza being razed to the ground by the retaliating Israelis. But if that were to happen, the Arab world, now smelling blood and Israeli weakness, might launch their own offensives. If that were to happen, then every bet would be off.

    News reports saying a different Hamas faction have entered Israel from Lebanon.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...00-2023-10-09/

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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/1711...639609218?s=20




    https://x.com/DavidBCollum/status/17...122186983?s=20




    https://x.com/VDHanson/status/1711174923220361268?s=20



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    Victor Davis Hanson
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    Israel, Our White-House Absurdities, and the Left’s Empire of Lies

    The Biden administration is furiously trying to contextualize its past, unsupportable policies that have sown global chaos, especially in the Middle East. But the more it spins, the clearer its culpability.
    Does it really believe that the long-agreed-upon U.S. green-lighting of $6 billion in sanctions relief to Iran has had no role in Iran’s terrorist support of Hamas, whether psychological or material or both? Do they think we are that stupid?

    Even a first-grader might surmise that if a terrorist state knows that an impending $6-billion bonanza will shortly arrive in its coffers, then it will more readily in the here and now send arms to Hamas—on the logical assumption that those costs soon will be more than covered, while making the additional assumption that the United States is complicit in its own fungible use of sanctions relief cash, and thus not innately hostile to Tehran’s self-professed agenda. In short, Tony Blinken is either a naif, a fool, or to use his words “misinforming”.

    These administration's megaphones who deny such fungibility always end up mouthing the same arguments as the lying and murderous theocracy in Tehran.

    But then why not—given the Biden-appointed Robert Malley, previously known as Obama’s ISIS advisor (and we remember how that worked out in Iraq), and a self-declared expert on Hamas rapprochement, eagerly accepted the offer to restart the disastrous Iran deal and normalize Iranian-American relations?

    And Malley was indeed eagerly at work—until he was stripped of his security clearance for his alleged unlawful dissemination of classified documents, and in addition fell under further scrutiny allegedly for treasonous efforts to insert pro-Iranian activists into the State Department.


    What also was behind the initial, natural instincts of the State Department’s “U.S. Office of Palestinian Affairs”? On news of the attacks, our State department in Pavlovian fashion immediately posted: “We urged all sides to refrain from violence and retaliatory attacks. Terror and violence solve nothing.”

    Yes, as lots of us predicted, that insane virtue signal would eventually be taken down—but only in response to Americans outraged at its amoral inanity.

    Was our government’s first inclination to stop Israel’s counter-responses to systematic Hamas murdering? Should Israelis accept another 800, 1,000, or 2,000 dead women and children in the interest of abiding by the instruction of the American “Office of Palestinian Affairs” to avoid “retaliatory attacks”?

    For that matter, does the Biden administration admonish Ukraine to refrain from “retaliatory attacks”—since, in its logic, responding to Putin’s “terror” with Ukrainian counter “violence” would “solve nothing”?

    Or is it just Israel, a democratic ally, that deserves these sermons?

    Or do they not reflect the embarrassing reality that there is a core Democratic base—the toxic Squad, AOC's Democratic Socialists, the fusion media, and some of the identity politics caucuses—who are Hamas apologists, even if that bankrupt ideology descends into ignoring or condoning the abject slaughter of civilians in their homes?

    And are we really to believe, as told, that resumption of hundreds of millions dollars in aid to the Palestinians was also not fungible and used to aid the current murderous agendas of Hamas?

    But do not just believe supporters of Israel about that reality.

    Instead, read what dissidents in the State Department themselves warned at the time of the dangers of Biden’s resumption of aid to the radical Palestinians: “We assess there is a high risk Hamas could potentially derive indirect, unintentional benefit from U.S. assistance to Gaza. There is less but still some risk U.S. assistance would benefit other designated groups.”

    The administration is, of course, back peddling furiously, given its prior appeasement of Iran and Hamas, if not an outright tilt against Israel—again policies that reflected the embarrassing core constituency of the Democratic Party.

    Americans should not listen to what Biden’s team now conveniently says, but instead to what it actually does in the upcoming weeks when it is under fire by its base in the new woke Democratic Party, as the Israelis have to go into Gaza, end this toxic death machine, and confront the Hamas global propaganda machine.

    A hard rain is soon going to fall abroad.

    And the United States better get its house in order, whether defined as standing with its few dependable allies left, securing its own oil and gas supplies, protecting its borders, un-woking and rebooting its suspect military, recalibrating its all too often incompetent and politicized intelligence bureaus—and thus preparing for a world turned upside down.

    8:21 PM · Oct 8, 2023
    ·
    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/17...379468653?s=20





    Quote Plausible
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 9th October 2023 at 16:44.
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

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  31. Link to Post #176
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    ...

    ... there we go:

    Hamas Thanks Iran for Providing Weapons, Money

    16 hours ago

    From former Brexit Parliamentary Candidate, Jim Ferguson:
    Abu Obaidah, Spokesperson of Izzuddin Al-Qassam Brigades (the military wing of Hamas):
    “We thank the Islamic Republic of Iran who provided us with weapons, money and other equipment! He gave us missiles to destroy Zionist fortresses, and helped us with standard anti-tank missiles!”
    Contributed by Alexandra Bruce
    Contact

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  33. Link to Post #177
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    https://x.com/kylenabecker/status/17...779335595?s=20

    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

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  35. Link to Post #178
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    He's going to the beach, nothing he has to say is relevant anyways, just getting words out are an accomplishment, if that is even him or an actor playing him, there's so much crap out there we dont even know who's who or are they filming with cgi or not.And who is exactly running things ??? Everything is a deception or a re-direction, always keep that in mind . Just like the game show jeapordy- the reason for the chaos in 2023? What is a crashing dollar parachute.

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  37. Link to Post #179
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...g-hamas-attack

    Warmongers Start Push For US Involvement In Iran Following Hamas Attack

    BY TYLER DURDEN
    MONDAY, OCT 09, 2023 - 12:20 PM
    Authored by Steve Watson via Summit News,

    Following the deadly coordinated attack on innocent civilians in Gaza by Hamas terrorists, U.S. hawks have begun their usual warmongering push, looking to reengage America in Middle Eastern conflict.

    GOP Senator Lindsey Graham was head of the line, bandying around threats to Iran that “we are all going to come after you” if there is an escalation involving Hezbollah:

    <more at link >
    I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. - Robert Anton Wilson

    The present as you think of it, and in practical working terms, is that point at which you select your physical experience from all those events that could be materialized. - Seth (The Nature of Personal Reality - Session 656, Page 293)

    (avatar image: Brocken spectre, a wonderful phenomenon of nature I have experienced and a symbol for my aspirations.)

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  39. Link to Post #180
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    Default Re: Israel vs Palestine: a New Middle East War

    Text:
    The Israeli losses are predicted to exceed 1,000 dead.

    It is inconceivable that the IDF had NO ready forces positioned in the South or the North to deal with potential violence on the anniversary of 1973.

    At the same time, the Arabs did what they never do. They shut up.

    In this sense, it’s reminiscent of two conditions.

    First, Custer and his column were annihilated because the hostile tribes did something they had never done:

    They united and stood their ground. Normally, they were divided and fled as soon as Army Regulars showed up.

    He rushed in thinking that if he did not, the hostiles would fleet. It’s also reminiscent of the Bulge.

    We talked ourselves into a state of wishful thinking and the Germans surprised us.

    For Israel, however, this is deadly serious. If Hezbollah sits this out, the IDF will systematically crush Gaza. However, serious attacks from Southern Lebanon will stretch the IDF ground force to the limit.

    It may be that anger and disgust across the Muslim World with the destruction of Gaza and its people eventually provokes a larger war that could involve Iran, even Turkey.

    Egypt will be unable to sit it out. Jordan may fall apart under the pressure of internal unrest. In short, the world could change dramatically.
    https://x.com/DougAMacgregor/status/1711420935453004165



    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    https://x.com/OCOCReport/status/1711378765572456755


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