+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Post Socialist World - and our options

  1. Link to Post #1
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Post Socialist World - and our options

    POST SOCIALIST WORLD
    -or-
    Why can’t socialism / communism be sustained?

    Collectivism, aka compulsory charity and confiscation of surplus under the administration of loafers, generally causes a society to collapse.

    First, it discourages surplus, for why bother to work harder (or better) when government takes or taxes it away? The resulting mediocrity & scarcity may be equitably distributed (excepting the management, of course), but it is still poverty when there should be prosperity.

    Second, the burden of socialist taxes drive women into the workforce, which reduces their rate of births. And it leaves children in the care of strangers, isolating them from their families. (But makes it easier to indoctrinate them!)

    Third, the inflation from socialist taxation and debauched money tokens, becomes another reason to not have children - a genocidal result. In other words, socialism makes it too expensive to have children, hence the future is doomed.

    Socialist countries will collapse, undoubtedly. As their recipient populations grow while their taxpayer base shrinks, a point will be reached that will spell the end of that society. Chaos will reign.

    POST SHTF

    What remedies can we implement to deal with the problems in a post socialist society?

    We know that government meddling (taxation, subsidy and regulations) have negatively impacted all aspects, spanning urban design, transportation, fuel and energy, watershed management, agriculture, and so on. And the biggest obstacle is government mandated “lawful money” & “legal tender.” Those who control the volume and value of the medium of exchange have strangled trade and prosperity from time immemorial.

    Real prosperity is based on prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed. With the bulk of transactions based on barter, there is no artificial barrier to trade. And where barter is not possible, liberty money (private mediums of exchange) can serve. Best of all, as long as no government privilege is involved, no taxes are applicable. No sales taxes, no income taxes, no property taxes...

    What can we do to better survive and thrive?

    Obviously whatever we decide on should provide our necessities - good air, clean water, good food, shelter from the elements, security from natural disasters, in the most effiicient way possible. And provide a family friendly environment, safe for children, and comfortable. Best of all, support more abundant life, whether human habitat, agriculture, or wildlife habitat.

    How do you envision that future?

  2. Link to Post #2
    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd September 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Language
    English, Dutch, German, Limburgs
    Age
    58
    Posts
    23,407
    Thanks
    32,354
    Thanked 129,666 times in 21,498 posts
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 12th February 2024 at 09:56.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

  3. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ExomatrixTV For This Post:

    amor (14th February 2024), Blacklight43 (12th February 2024), Mike (12th February 2024), palehorse (12th February 2024)

  4. Link to Post #3
    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th April 2020
    Location
    Gaia
    Language
    English
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,689
    Thanks
    12,578
    Thanked 11,828 times in 1,630 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    ..
    POST SHTF

    What remedies can we implement to deal with the problems in a post socialist society?

    We know that government meddling (taxation, subsidy and regulations) have negatively impacted all aspects, spanning urban design, transportation, fuel and energy, watershed management, agriculture, and so on. And the biggest obstacle is government mandated “lawful money” & “legal tender.” Those who control the volume and value of the medium of exchange have strangled trade and prosperity from time immemorial.

    Real prosperity is based on prodigious production of surplus usable goods and services, equitably traded and enjoyed. With the bulk of transactions based on barter, there is no artificial barrier to trade. And where barter is not possible, liberty money (private mediums of exchange) can serve. Best of all, as long as no government privilege is involved, no taxes are applicable. No sales taxes, no income taxes, no property taxes...

    What can we do to better survive and thrive?

    Obviously whatever we decide on should provide our necessities - good air, clean water, good food, shelter from the elements, security from natural disasters, in the most effiicient way possible. And provide a family friendly environment, safe for children, and comfortable. Best of all, support more abundant life, whether human habitat, agriculture, or wildlife habitat.

    How do you envision that future?


    That brings to mind what you wrote in the thread "starve the beast - solutions" (post #34), I still think sometimes about the dual ring village and not a single person that I know into the permaculture and natural farming scene mention that or actually know what it really is, of course their focus are not on shelter or aspects of security, I have been talking about this subject with some, but every time I touch the subject it seems like people stir away from it, I guess for lack of knowledge or who knows, most people got caught into the globalist idea of self sustainability nowadays, green BS, and they "believe" that only governments or large corpo can actually make it work, example are these large communities we see popping up in all countries (backed by government and large corpo), but it is far different what a person sees and experience into natural farming or even permaculture at small scale.


    Real production of surplus is the goal for anyone into natural farming, barter, exchange and trade will naturally follow.

    Could you expand on: liberty money (private mediums of exchange) ? Do you mean some sort of promissory note but used in the context of goods/services only with your trusted circle?




    ~~~

    "Americans restoring sovereignty is a valid remedy for individuals.
    But what about a group?
    As mentioned in the previous post, a COMMUNITY of folks who barter, would generate prodigious prosperity because they're isolated from the MONEY MAD system.

    IMHO, solo survival is not a good long term solution.

    Under existing American law, people have Creator endowed rights that governments were instituted to secure. There is no bar for people to mutually defend their persons, liberty and / or property from predators. You can build alliances composed of your family, your extended family, friends and neighbors. You can construct defensible fortified villages. You can cooperate and pool resources to accomplish projects that dwarf the capacity of any individual’s abilities.

    And your intolerance of predators can range from opposing trespassers to shunning those who you find unacceptable, repulsive, repugnant or disgusting like socialist slavers. When you’re no longer compelled to participate in supporting evil (via socialism), they won’t have easy means to live at your expense, enforced by a predatory government and its stooges.


    There are many examples of cooperative living throughout history : Kibbutz, Ashram, Monastery, Commune, Sacred Hoop, and so on.

    My personal favorite : DUAL RING VILLAGE.

    What is a "Dual Ring Village"?
    "

    for the entire post here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1530953
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to palehorse For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (12th February 2024), ExomatrixTV (12th February 2024)

  6. Link to Post #4
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    66
    Posts
    5,669
    Thanks
    26,268
    Thanked 36,650 times in 5,390 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    If I could I would have lived my life completely differently.

    I blame schooling, which did not teach me what I needed to know. Instead, it taught me what someone else needs me to know. That did not serve me at all.

    I make a lousy slave. I cannot get myself to work for another's benefit. Especially not for 'the government'. 30% of my work given freely to government takes the drive right out of me. I'd rather just survive and get nowhere than make the government money at my expense. My life has been about giving the government as little as possible. I give them the least by working as little as possible and taking everything they 'give' as handouts, thereby grabbing back what they forced me to pay. I am proud of the fact that me and the government are almost even! They got nothing from me. Of course, I have nothing as a result...


    This idea that every human has to start from scratch and eke out a living and carve out an empire despite those already well off taking their cut at your expense is ludicrous.
    I don't know of another way. Is there another way?

    I dream of a world where my life is not about survival, is not about monthly payments. I dream of a world that teaches me the basics, points me in the right direction, and supports my every endeavor. What good does it do to allow me to fail? To live in destitution, without hope, like billions of others. My life fell apart over $50.
    Is that fair?

    (of course I am to blame, I made the choices that lead to a place where $50 was enough to destroy me, a one-two punch of poor timing and bad luck that I could not recover from)

    So here I am, an old man, with unrealized fantasies of success. Did I dream of millions? No. Did I dream of an empire? No. Did I wish for more than others? No.
    I just wanted value for my effort - this society's idea of value is not mine.

    I don't need a million dollar home - I can build my own with supplies from the dump - but that is illegal.
    I can dig a hole and put a roof over it for free. But that is illegal.

    I cannot compete with the world's middle class. Yet since the free trade treaties that is exactly what I am forced to do. I refuse to suffer for the basics. But that is life, isn't it? Work hard for 50 years so you can have ten years of retirement rocking in your chair on the porch waiting to die. That's it. Not much to look forward to, not much value in that.
    And when they kick me out of this building, I will have to live under a bridge because I have no credit history to get another place - if I could afford the new rents, which I cannot.

    You can keep this insane world. It does not have me fooled and I value my time too much to give it away for free to another.
    end of rant
    (excuse: lost my job today, urgh!, laid off again...)
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

  7. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (13th February 2024), ExomatrixTV (13th February 2024), Jaak (13th February 2024), palehorse (13th February 2024), Satori (13th February 2024), ulli (15th February 2024)

  8. Link to Post #5
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    Could you expand on: liberty money (private mediums of exchange) ? Do you mean some sort of promissory note but used in the context of goods/services only with your trusted circle?
    LIBERTY MONEY
    (Named for the endowed liberty of the sovereign people to create their own medium of exchange, whether that is a database entry, private promissory note ("coupon"), token, etc.)
    One of the great victories of the propaganda ministry was to persuade people that governments "print up new money." In reality, no government is "printing up money," because if they were so empowered, they'd not need to tax their subjects in order to spend it. Or worse, borrow huge sums ("national debt"). Simply print and spend.

    AFAIK, all paper currencies are borrowed from "national banks" which charge interest that is not paid into the public treasury. In short, everyone is trapped in the usury dominated eCONomy.

    ESCAPE
    One way is for producers (not consumers!) to issue private promissory notes (coupons) denominated in goods and services. These are promises to be redeemed in the future. When tendered, they are extinguished - or reissued as desired by the productive party who discharges the coupon.

    Another way is to create a database to track credits and debits, to facilitate a more advanced form of barter. The abstract value of the goods and services may be pegged to a common unit of measure to simplify trade.

    Whatever system you choose, the goal is for producers to match their product or service with those who can use it. This way, a cash starved community can reignite the engine of prosperity.
    . . .
    TRADE WITHOUT BEAN COUNTING
    Consider the old fashioned barn raising or house raising for a new family. The community pools resources and labor to provide a finished product. There is good will. The young strapping men can show off to the young women, and vice versa. The recipients, as part of the community, have also contributed to past projects, and will no doubt continue to contribute to future projects. Thus, the local community incrementally builds greater prosperity - more housing - better conditions - less stress.
    AND NO MORTGAGE !
    . . .
    Obviously, private promissory notes will be limited in circulation, based on trusting the folks who issued them. So there may be room for banks to offer their services by exchanging local notes for their widely exchangeable bank notes (not denominated in real money). Banks can discount the collateral offered (local notes), for their profit, but as long as they do not charge interest, it's not usury. Usury is an abomination and mathematically unsustainable. Interest payments require more money to exist. Whereas discounting a note, doesn't.
    . . .
    The more production and trade, unfettered by taxes and usury, the more prosperous is the community.

    (Current aggregate government spending / taxing takes 44.4% of the GDP (2024). That tax charge is directly and indirectly impacting everyone, via tax shift inflation, debauched money tokens, and rising poverty... excepting the government, of course.)

  9. Link to Post #6
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    That brings to mind what you wrote in the thread "starve the beast - solutions" (post #34), I still think sometimes about the dual ring village and not a single person that I know into the permaculture and natural farming scene mention that or actually know what it really is, of course their focus are not on shelter or aspects of security, I have been talking about this subject with some, but every time I touch the subject it seems like people stir away from it, I guess for lack of knowledge or who knows, most people got caught into the globalist idea of self sustainability nowadays, green BS, and they "believe" that only governments or large corpo can actually make it work, example are these large communities we see popping up in all countries (backed by government and large corpo), but it is far different what a person sees and experience into natural farming or even permaculture at small scale.
    Regarding the DUAL RING VILLAGE.
    Yes, it is not a widely disseminated concept / solution. Historically, there have been variations on the basic theme of a fortified walled village / city. Fortified villages often can rebel against the local warlords ("governments") with great success.

    In China, there are reports of Tulou built 900 to 1000 years ago, that are still standing. They were often built "dirt cheap" - literally - made from rammed earth and unfinished lumber.
    . . .
    THE KEY FACTORS

    A dual ring village is a walled enclosure, but with a difference - the apartments and businesses are built into the wall, itself.
    All manner of engineering benefits accrue.

    Curved walls (arches on their sides) offer greater resistance to side forces (flying debris, high wind, earthquakes). A circle encloses the most area for the least surface (perimeter) - which makes it energy efficient - cooler in summer - warmer in winter. The outer and inner curved walls are offset to provide the interior space, which is further braced by the partition walls, like nature's bamboo... very useful when resisting flash floods, storm surge, mud slides, avalanches, etc. Unlike a cubical structure that has up to six exposed surfaces, an apartment in a DRV would have minimal exposure to the ambient climate (depending). A row of townhouses have two exposed ends - but if that row was wrapped into a circle, bingo... two less surfaces.

    One of the drawbacks of a curved wall (such as in a dome) is the wasted interior space, and the problem with furniture. However in a large radius ring building the apartment has two straight partition walls and two mildly curved bearing walls, that are more suited to furnishings. The overall shape is trapezoidal, which is a reasonable compromise.

    The dual ring came about by trial and error. Was thinking about tales of Atlantis being made of 9 concentric rings. However I couldn't see any immediate benefit. Walled courtyard houses, and others, like a single ring fort have a large open space, but once you add a second ring building, then you get a "main street". That's where you can establish the urban environment - close proximity to vocations, businesses, retail, shops, entertainment, etc. The enclosed circular park can be configured for whatever is desired by the Ringers. Plus you have redundancy - add another security gateway on the inner ring building. Children playing in the central park will be at minimal risk of a "snatch and grab."

    Building a multistory village, with consolidated population, may seem odd, at first. But there are many benefits. In the case of breach by flood waters, there is a ready refuge on the upper floors or roof deck. Ditto, for massive snow drifts or volcanic ash fall.

    Another feature is the continuous balconies on each upper level - not unlike the French Quarter of New Orleans. This eliminates the need to go down to street level to move around in the ring village, and reduces congestion. And those balconies can support planters, so everyone has the option to raise flowers or vegetables, etc. And the stacked balconies offer shelter from inclement weather, including the customers at street level. If desired, foot bridges can span the main street connecting the inner and outer ring buildings.

    Side view:
    [B] = barrier wall; [W] = ring wall; [S] = street ; Balcony = _|

    [B]___[W]_| .... .... .... |_[W]___[W]_|
    [B]___[W]_| .... .... .... |_[W]___[W]_|
    [B]___[W]_| .... .... .... |_[W]___[W]_|
    [B]___[W]_| .... [S] .... |_[W]___[W]_| ... park .... park ... center


    The Problem.

    A dual ring village can't be constructed in parts, over time. It won't function unless completely built. So the charter group has to be large enough to provide the resources, skill and labor to get it done. Also, it's not conducive to being expanded. Adding another concentric ring building cuts down on parkland. Expansion is best done by building a new dual ring village in close proximity. And having several DRVs can be beneficial, offering mutual support.

    In the long run, DRVs or something similar will have to become the new paradigm for post SHTF civilization. We can't afford to waste resources, labor and time, rebuilding ephemeral housing that enriches the bankers and governments and scam artists. Nor can we have homes that are easily invaded and compromised by nature's wrath.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 12th February 2024 at 18:00.

  10. Link to Post #7
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    If I could I would have lived my life completely differently.

    I blame schooling, which did not teach me what I needed to know. Instead, it taught me what someone else needs me to know. That did not serve me at all.

    I make a lousy slave. I cannot get myself to work for another's benefit. Especially not for 'the government'. 30% of my work given freely to government takes the drive right out of me. I'd rather just survive and get nowhere than make the government money at my expense. My life has been about giving the government as little as possible. I give them the least by working as little as possible and taking everything they 'give' as handouts, thereby grabbing back what they forced me to pay. I am proud of the fact that me and the government are almost even! They got nothing from me. Of course, I have nothing as a result...


    This idea that every human has to start from scratch and eke out a living and carve out an empire despite those already well off taking their cut at your expense is ludicrous.
    I don't know of another way. Is there another way?
    [YES]

    I dream of a world where my life is not about survival, is not about monthly payments. I dream of a world that teaches me the basics, points me in the right direction, and supports my every endeavor. What good does it do to allow me to fail? To live in destitution, without hope, like billions of others. My life fell apart over $50.
    Is that fair?

    (of course I am to blame, I made the choices that lead to a place where $50 was enough to destroy me, a one-two punch of poor timing and bad luck that I could not recover from)

    So here I am, an old man, with unrealized fantasies of success. Did I dream of millions? No. Did I dream of an empire? No. Did I wish for more than others? No.
    I just wanted value for my effort - this society's idea of value is not mine.

    I don't need a million dollar home - I can build my own with supplies from the dump - but that is illegal.
    I can dig a hole and put a roof over it for free. But that is illegal.

    I cannot compete with the world's middle class. Yet since the free trade treaties that is exactly what I am forced to do. I refuse to suffer for the basics. But that is life, isn't it? Work hard for 50 years so you can have ten years of retirement rocking in your chair on the porch waiting to die. That's it. Not much to look forward to, not much value in that.
    And when they kick me out of this building, I will have to live under a bridge because I have no credit history to get another place - if I could afford the new rents, which I cannot.

    You can keep this insane world. It does not have me fooled and I value my time too much to give it away for free to another.
    end of rant
    (excuse: lost my job today, urgh!, laid off again...)
    My condolences.
    . . .
    Being in the domain of King Charles, your situation might not be amenable to my suggestions, that are more suited to those who are in a republican form of government.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutterites

    However, if I recall, there were various communities, like the Hutterites, that appear to avoid "imperial entanglements" of the British Commonwealth.

    You might find success in establishing a religious community of folks who share your goals, and can operate with minimal interference.

    Personally, I'd like to establish a Punk Amish Kibbutz Cooperative Monastic College.
    COLLEGE - A body of persons having a common purpose or shared duties.
    - - - American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.

    ASHRAM - a house that provides accommodation for destitute people.
    - - - Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition

    MONASTERY - A community of persons, especially monks, bound by vows to a religious life and often living in partial or complete seclusion.
    - - - American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition.
    Creating a community that claims to be destitute and seeking seclusion explains the necessity of the barrier wall and security gate. And having "nothing of value" should deter the thieves, public or private sector.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 12th February 2024 at 18:47.

  11. Link to Post #8
    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    Toronto
    Age
    66
    Posts
    5,669
    Thanks
    26,268
    Thanked 36,650 times in 5,390 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    No condolences necessary. I made my bed, blah, blah.

    I go to the next world with a clear conscience.


    What I would recommend for others, though, is to buck the system. Do not go down the traditional road (expressway, really). Instead, find your niche. Half legal, half illegal. Never be afraid to take a risk - always go for it! Do not follow the laws of the state, they are not made for your benefit. Call yourself self-employed and refuse deduct-at-source taxation. Take every write-off, claim every meal.
    Acquire property, move out of the city.

    Support others that do the same - do not take advantage.
    Be honorable at all times.
    Be ready to give.
    Work hard for yourself.
    Remember to smile.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

  12. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Ernie Nemeth For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (13th February 2024), ExomatrixTV (13th February 2024), palehorse (13th February 2024)

  13. Link to Post #9
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    No condolences necessary. I made my bed, blah, blah.

    I go to the next world with a clear conscience.

    What I would recommend for others, though, is to buck the system. Do not go down the traditional road (expressway, really). Instead, find your niche. Half legal, half illegal. Never be afraid to take a risk - always go for it! Do not follow the laws of the state, they are not made for your benefit. Call yourself self-employed and refuse deduct-at-source taxation. Take every write-off, claim every meal.
    Acquire property, move out of the city.

    Support others that do the same - do not take advantage.
    Be honorable at all times.
    Be ready to give.
    Work hard for yourself.
    Remember to smile.
    I would not recommend half illegal. However, since most folks don't read law, they have no clue as to what IS legal and what is NOT.

    I have not read all law, and am not infallible, but I have yet to find ONE LAW that violates the natural or personal liberty of the American national, free inhabitant, domiciled upon his private property within the boundaries of the United States of America. Such are the blessings of the republican form of government.

    But I have found volumes of laws that restrain, regulate and tax the poor U.S. citizen / resident residing at a residence, duly enrolled and enumerated, obligated to pay taxes and or get permission (license) to live, work, travel, buy, sell, hire, fire, enter occupations, operate a business, build a house, fly a plane, drive a car, transmit, hunt, fish, marry, or own a dog... to name just a few. Such are the problems with the [socialist] democratic form of government.

    Fortunately, no government, state or federal, can enact anything regarding the establishment of a religion and its members' lifestyle.

    BENEFIT OF CLERGY - a privilege that placed the clergy outside the jurisdiction of secular courts and entitled them to trial in ecclesiastical courts.
    In its original sense, the phrase denoted the exemption which was accorded to clergymen from the jurisdiction of the secular courts, or from arrest or attachment on criminal process issuing from those courts in certain particular cases.
    - - - Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth ed., p.158

    If you do start your own church, remember to be the bishop - that is the party that holds title to church property. You don't want to be in the lower ranks under a bishop.

    BISHOP. A high-ranking Christian cleric, and in some churches regarded as having received the HIGHEST ORDINATION in unbroken succession from the apostles.
    - - - American Heritage Dictionary

    CORPORATION (Aggregate and sole). A corporation sole is one consisting of one person only, and his successors in some particular station, who are incorporated by law in order to give them some legal capacities and advantages, particularly that of perpetuity, which in their natural persons they could not have had. In this sense, the sovereign in England is a sole corporation, so is a BISHOP ...
    - - - Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth ed., p.341.

    A "sole corporation" is a secular one.
    A "corporation sole" is an ecclesiastical one. A Bishop is a corporation sole.

    CIVIL DEATH - The state of a person who, though possessing natural life, has lost all his civil rights, and as to them, is considered dead.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Fourth Edition, pg. 488.

    RELIGIOUS MEN - Such as entered into some monastery or convent... Religious men are civilly dead.
    - - - Black's Law Dictionary, Fourth Edition, pg. 1456.

    Civil death = outside of the powers and permissions of secular government. (Civil rights really mean civil liberties - permissions granted by government. No connection with natural liberty and natural rights. All those pesky licenses or lack thereof cannot be an issue, when dealing with the civilly dead.)

    MORTMAIN - 1. the condition of lands or tenements held without right of alienation, as by an ecclesiastical corporation. 2. the perpetual holding of land, esp. by a corporation or charitable trust.
    [1250–1300; Middle English < Anglo-French, translation of Medieval Latin mortua manus “dead hand”]

    Religious men (civilly dead) who hold ecclesiastic property (like bishops) are said to hold it as mortmain (dead hand). Another reason why Church property is not subject to ad valorem taxes - no government privilege involved.

    Federal Reserve banks will open non-interest bearing accounts for Churches who have an EIN. Since they do not earn usury, there is no reporting to the Eye Are Us. This is one remedy to deal with the universal dominion of the international financial powers.

    If you hold land in mortmain, and can clear checks and use electronic money transfers, you're set. You can engage in a vocation to support "your" ministry, trade, buy and sell, all tax exempt. Traveling in your private automobile (not "motor vehicle") as a free inhabitant (non-resident) without being pestered by "Officer Friendly" may require carrying a copy of the pertinent local laws that exempt NON RESIDENTS from compliance.
    O.C.G.A. 40-2-1(35) “Nonresident” means every person who is not a resident of this state. [Georgia]
    O.C.G.A. 40-2-1(36) "Nonresident's operating privilege" means the privilege conferred upon a nonresident by the laws of this state pertaining to the operation by such person of a motor vehicle or the use of a vehicle owned by such person in this state.
    The state has no reason to persecute nonresident inhabitants domiciled in the united States of America for failure to conform to rules and regulations that only apply to residents. And nothing in the law impairs the personal liberty of the free people to travel by private automobile. (Driving a "motor vehicle" is to engage in commerce on the public roads)
    " Personal liberty largely consists of the Right of locomotion to go where and when one pleases only so far restrained as the Rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horsedrawn carriage, wagon, or AUTOMOBILE, is not a mere privilege which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but the common Right which he has under his Right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this Constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with nor disturbing another's Rights, he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct."
    - - - II Am.Jur. (1st) Constitutional Law, Sect.329, p.1135.

    But "motor vehicles" are defined as engaged in commerce, using public roads for private profit, and that is a privilege subject to the state's authority.
    "When used in this chapter the term - ... “MOTOR VEHICLE” means every description of carriage or other contrivance propelled or drawn by mechanical power and USED FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES on the highways in the transportation of passengers, passengers and property, or property or cargo..."
    - - - Title 18 USC Sec. 31
    BTW - a "passenger auto" is a vehicle for hire. However, "riders" aren't "passengers". Pay attention for notices on 18 wheelers that state "no riders."
    Why not "no passengers"? HEH HEH HEH.
    Last edited by ozmirage; 12th February 2024 at 19:31.

  14. Link to Post #10
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Re: Religious "disorders"

    Some folks might raise the point that the Mormon's Plural Marriages were banned by law. However, there is really no law barring sovereign people from having multiple spouses.
    "LICENSED" marriage (as permitted by the State) does prohibit bigamy / polygamy.
    Ironically, it is not a moral issue. Even the Bible doesn't condemn multiple wives and multiple concubines. It is solely based on adjudicating disputes over the "marriage" property of licensed parties and their heirs.

    The point - any interference with a religion usually has a secular connection. The Mormons wanted Utah admitted as a state. But the rest of the states and feds did not want to have to deal with the complications, so the Mormons changed their bylaws (at least those who followed Brigham Young) to end plural marriage "officially."

    If you're going to go the religious route as your remedy to the Post Socialist Collapse, just be careful to not accidentally become party to agreements that would jeopardize your situation. I suspect that the Roman Catholic Church did "something" in the 1960s that caused their status to shift. I can recall that the Nuns suddenly had to be paid salaries and pay income taxes, and the Catholic run hospitals had to pay their religious staff, and withhold taxes. Which pretty much crippled their ability to offer "free"/low cost care.

  15. Link to Post #11
    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th April 2020
    Location
    Gaia
    Language
    English
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,689
    Thanks
    12,578
    Thanked 11,828 times in 1,630 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    ...
    You can keep this insane world. It does not have me fooled and I value my time too much to give it away for free to another.
    end of rant
    (excuse: lost my job today, urgh!, laid off again...)
    Sorry to hear that Ernie

    ~~~

    Thanks for explaining Liberty Money in more details.

    "Obviously, private promissory notes will be limited in circulation, based on trusting the folks who issued them. So there may be room for banks to offer their services by exchanging local notes for their widely exchangeable bank notes (not denominated in real money). Banks can discount the collateral offered (local notes), for their profit, but as long as they do not charge interest, it's not usury. Usury is an abomination and mathematically unsustainable. Interest payments require more money to exist. Whereas discounting a note, doesn't. "

    It works perfectly for peer to peer bartering. e.g.

    peer A bartered 5kg of sweet potatoes with peer B in exchange of 5kg of sweet corn, however peer B had only 4kg available ATM. So peer B has a debit of 1kg of sweet corn with peer A, in that case a private promissory note could be created and both would have to deal with that privately without any interaction of external systems. That sounds more than acceptable to me, that also prevents fraud, because if peer B decide not to "pay" his 1kg debit with peer A, then peer A has all the right to never deal again with peer B unless the debit is paid. It should work well at so many levels.



    Just one quick point out, TPTB has a plan to end all sort of religions and establish their one-world religion, I bet if that happen all the laws/decrees/whatever related to religion will be burned/erased and new laws will be enacted. So in terms of illegal or legal, half-illegal or half-legal I would not bet high on that, because things can change and will, all it takes is a *major war* and there we are starting from scratch once again, but I agree knowing law at some extent and acting accordingly is key in the process.

    "Personally, I'd like to establish a Punk Amish Kibbutz Cooperative Monastic College."

    I see the Amish model working as a foundation for rebuilding the world after SHTF times, but I can't stand religious indoctrination, so it must be something outside the religious sphere, a non-religious Amish sort of thing, but as they say the religion is the core of Amish community, so without it, probably it would fall apart, seems like in many communities the "bond" is by religion or spirituality, never by law or anything else, so we are yet to see what model would be better after SHTF.
    Last edited by palehorse; 13th February 2024 at 03:16.
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

  16. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to palehorse For This Post:

    Alekahn2 (13th February 2024), ExomatrixTV (13th February 2024)

  17. Link to Post #12
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    This farmer is exhausting to watch. . .

    But it may represent the post SHTF world . . . hard work, all the time


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN_BoWhBfEg

  18. Link to Post #13
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    It works perfectly for peer to peer bartering. e.g.

    peer A bartered 5kg of sweet potatoes with peer B in exchange of 5kg of sweet corn, however peer B had only 4kg available ATM. So peer B has a debit of 1kg of sweet corn with peer A, in that case a private promissory note could be created and both would have to deal with that privately without any interaction of external systems. That sounds more than acceptable to me, that also prevents fraud, because if peer B decide not to "pay" his 1kg debit with peer A, then peer A has all the right to never deal again with peer B unless the debit is paid. It should work well at so many levels.
    Perhaps I failed to explain the nature of private promissory notes versus "insane" money.
    The function of a medium of exchange is to pass value to a future trade.

    When you tender a coupon for something, and it is honored, the issuer then destroys the coupon, since it fulfilled its function "passing value" to a future trade.
    . . . Whereas when one tenders a money token, it is NOT destroyed, despite having "passed value." And yet it is presumed to have "retained value." Therein lies the insanity.
    . . .
    In the case of barter, there is no need for liberty money. An incomplete contract is simply that. Whereas liberty money (private notes, coupons) is to facilitate TRADE (passing value to the future - to a third party) where one to one barter is insufficient. It is also dynamic - expanding and contracting as the market changes.

    To illustrate, an unemployed laborer might "spend" his promises to work for groceries. At some future date, the holder of his promissory notes, would tender those notes for him to discharge. As long as his reputation for honoring his promises is good, he can keep emitting new promises to work. And he doesn't have to "look for work."
    Prospective employers need only accumulate his labor notes, and avoid the hassle of advertising, etc.

    A restauranteur might also emit private promissory notes, denominated in meals, to capitalize his business, paying for supplies, etc. The coupons do double duty - for the holders of those notes become his new customers, saving on advertising. In addition, once he discharges his outstanding notes, subsequent sales are all profit.

    In both instances, it is vital to maintain one's good reputation, so as to insure future acceptance of one's notes. It will be refreshing when workers and businesses strive to be their very best, and never try to weasel out of obligations.

    For unemployed laborers, liberty money eliminates the excuse for public charity (socialism). For capitalizing businesses, liberty money eliminates the usurer. And thus greater prosperity can be generated, for the benefit of the productive people.
    This will honk off the parasites and predators, though.

  19. Link to Post #14
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    DOCTRINE -
    A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

    RELIGION -
    The belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers, regarded as creating and governing the universe.

    DOGMA -
    A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a religion.

    Religion defines one’s relationship with that which one assumes is a higher power or supernatural. Law defines one’s relationship with another person, his liberty and/or his property.

    AUTHORITARIANS seek to control, by demanding absolute obedience, using religions and governments. It doesn't mean that religion or government is bad.

    Whether or not God is fallible is not proved by the scribes who write scripture.
    Imagine a scriptural description of a 21st century metal oxide silicon field effect transistor made by diffusing one element into another, creating a PN junction, and the etching of a self aligning gate - and so small that millions would fit on the head of a pin, used to make unimaginably fast "computing engines" that do arithmetic, paint images, let us communicate over vast distances... and other "miraculous" functions.

    Good Advice:
    Strive to be the kind of person you would enjoy spending eternity with, otherwise you may become a person that’s hell to be around.

    Punk Amish Doctrine: What's yours is yours, what's mine is mine, don't trespass. Be kind and considerate. Forgive. Love God, love your neighbor as yourself.

    Tolerance of evil is unmerciful to the next victim. But using evil to defeat evil, makes evil the victor. Therein lies the key to understanding the law of love versus the law of the jungle.

  20. Link to Post #15
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Guy farming a 3/4 acre plot in the high desert of Colorado.

    https://youtu.be/i5yUPau-F1c

  21. Link to Post #16
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    The technology and techniques for off-grid, autonomous, and prosperous life style are within our grasp. Finding several hundred like minded folks to pool resources and build a fortified village is the challenge. A charter group of 300+ folks, each contributing $5,000 (or more), would have 1.5 million frns to work with. That should be enough to acquire sufficient acreage for the farm and dual ring village. . . Build as you go, don't borrow from usurers!

    Danger, danger, Will Robinson
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1532383

  22. Link to Post #17
    Avalon Member palehorse's Avatar
    Join Date
    13th April 2020
    Location
    Gaia
    Language
    English
    Age
    46
    Posts
    1,689
    Thanks
    12,578
    Thanked 11,828 times in 1,630 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    Guy farming a 3/4 acre plot in the high desert of Colorado.

    https://youtu.be/i5yUPau-F1c

    Quite true what he says about clay soil, if stop composting it will go right back to clay in few years, just the way nature works. Great advice, I am struggling with that with my clay soil, my solution will be to grow in raised bed under a shade cloth, otherwise would have to compost most of the land and that would be very cost. Also build soil take too long and it is a non stop working, but it has to be done, so early is better than later.


    ~~~


    Quote Posted by ozmirage (here)
    The technology and techniques for off-grid, autonomous, and prosperous life style are within our grasp. Finding several hundred like minded folks to pool resources and build a fortified village is the challenge. A charter group of 300+ folks, each contributing $5,000 (or more), would have 1.5 million frns to work with. That should be enough to acquire sufficient acreage for the farm and dual ring village. . . Build as you go, don't borrow from usurers!

    Danger, danger, Will Robinson
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1532383

    That seems doable. I bolded above, question is: what would be the process to withdraw consent in order the the acquired land become private property? otherwise that would be tax on the land. unless we are talking about post SHTF scenario where there will be no one to collect it.

    Here is the basic 3d draws for the Tulou (ring village).

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1600720
    --
    A chaos to the sense, a Kosmos to the reason.

  23. Link to Post #18
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    16th January 2016
    Location
    Jawjah, OOSA
    Age
    69
    Posts
    937
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 2,886 times in 760 posts

    Default Re: Post Socialist World - and our options

    Quote Posted by palehorse (here)
    That seems doable. I bolded above, question is: what would be the process to withdraw consent in order the the acquired land become private property? otherwise that would be tax on the land. unless we are talking about post SHTF scenario where there will be no one to collect it.
    To Establish a Title to Private Property

    In the Federal Rules for Admiralty auctions, three facts establish title:
    1) Right to own (legal age, etc)
    2) Alienate title with lawful money (gold / silver coin in excess of 21 dollars)
    3) No superior claim exists (due notice)

    Several people have told me they were successful in getting court orders, regarding absolute ownership of their private property.

    One method was to file a legal notice in the county newspaper of record, asking all claimants to property [description] to come forward within 30 days or forever waive their claims. A reply box number is provided, and at the end of the ad running, the newspaper will issue an affidavit regarding replies to said box number. After that notice period expires, then complete the transaction, and have a duly witnessed Bill of Sale.

    The next step was to file, ex parte, for a court order that the property in question is absolutely owned by the plaintiff, as supported by the bill of sale, newspaper affidavit, and due notice, etc, etc. (One might file with an affidavit of indigence, since no “dollars” are circulating in the sum necessary to pay the filing fees. )

    {Check local court rules to insure that you have complied with all steps. In many cases, filing a case without a fee may require a judge’s approval. It’s just an added step.}

    I haven't checked all jurisdictions, but I have not found any laws requiring the recording of PRIVATE PROPERTY in the public record. . . . it's PRIVATE. (Duh)

    " Sole purpose and effect of recording of deed is to afford third parties constructive notice of the existence of the deed.”
    - - - City Whsle. Co. v. Harper, 100 Ga.App. 151, 110 S.E. 2d 561 (1959)


    In another reference, I found that there's no law compelling the recording of a deed to real estate.

    " There is no Georgia statute compelling the recording of a deed."
    - - - Encyclopedia of Georgia Law, 8 A, p. 265, Sec. 132

    Things you find when you read the law !
    Last edited by ozmirage; 15th February 2024 at 15:27.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts