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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Christianity vs Spirituality

    I think religion has become sort of a dirty word in alt community circles, and I've been sort of inwardly exploring that mentality lately.

    I feel myself getting more religious as I get older, for better or worse. I feel I'm being gently pulled back to my Catholic roots in recent years, but it remains mostly a feeling. Only recently have I begun intellectualizing it in any kind of earnest way.

    I want to put some of my ideas to the test here. They're very vague at the moment, and not fleshed out in any meaningful way. Writing has always helped me with that, along with reading the ideas of others. So I hope this thread can serve that purpose. Some of my ideas are purely speculative; some are partially speculative; and some are quite firm. I'll be sorting all that out in real time, here on this thread. Maybe others will do the same.

    Christianity is often spoken of here and elsewhere as something that needs to be “deprogrammed” out of us. I'm beginning to suspect that's all upside down, that instead we've been programmed to think we need to be deprogrammed of it.

    Much in the same way the youth here in the west have been programmed to hate their country, I suspect the same applies to Christianity. We're standing on the shoulders of giants, yet we so easily dismiss their wisdom in favor of, frankly, quite a bit of new-age flakery.

    We've been led to think that God is some impersonal force, with an assortment of names that we can use willy-nilly according to our mood. I don't think so. I think God's nature is specific and ordered, and God should be addressed as “God” - not “source”, not “the universe” not “consciousness”, not (fill in your cute name for God here). I think we're all aware of this on some level. Show me the guy in the foxhole who cries out, “Source! Please save me Source!” Or the person who prays to the “universe” after a near fatal accident.

    The idea of God being male is dismissed outright. I don't think God has a penis, but I think His fundamental energy is masculine. I'm quite certain of this. This is often scoffed at. I've seen God referred to as “she” in what the writer imagines is some clever, progressive troll I s'pose, and I've seen it written that way in earnest. I've heard God described as being genderless as well.

    Sometimes it seems none of us will be happy until God is a nameless, genderless, impersonal entity without any preferences or requirements at all. In other words, a God that is utterly meaningless and incomprehensible. This is the “spiritual” approach as far as I can tell. Not terribly inspiring.

    In this way, I think it can be argued that “spirituality” does not expand our knowledge and awareness of God, it dilutes it. God – much like “gender” these days - can just mean whatever one wants it to mean or not mean, they say. Wrong, I say.

    The Bible is a book of distinctions: Good/evil; God/satan; man/woman; right/wrong. More than ever I see why very firm distinctions are required. We need them for a coherent existence. You'll notice a very direct effort to distort all that lately. Everything is “fluid” – so called “gender”, morality (moral relativism), etc. Perhaps without realizing it, the “spiritual” are doing the same with God – making Him “fluid”. Which is just another way of rendering Him meaningless and obsolete. And I think it's been planned that way.

    It's important that we're oriented towards something in life, preferably God; without orientation, you're just twisting in the wind. Life becomes meaningless otherwise, and people become nihilistic and distressed. When one is oriented towards God, all actions and words are cohesive and meaningful...but not if God is a blurry painting; He has to mean something very specific.

    I don't think being oriented towards a concept like compassion/nirvana is sufficient to offer this order/orientation for people, long term, particularly within a Godless framework(Buddhism). And it seems to me that the near endless gods in Hinduism mostly confuse and dilute meaning. And I don't think names/concepts like “source” or “universe” (Spirituality) motivate people to worship, live properly, find meaning, and so on. But the Christian ethos does to a much larger degree.

    “Spirituality” is insufficient. I just recently started a thread, asking members to define what spirituality means. There were some excellent, thoughtful answers there. But they're all different. In other words, it doesn't have any grounding objectively. By having near countless meanings, it's essentially meaningless. It's not the sort of orienting framework that will help one navigate life and one's relationship to God, in my view.

    I think religion is an attempt to collate and order the incomprehensible, and in doing so it can have the effect of reducing God in a way. Spirituality seeks to expand the meaning of God, and in doing so often dilutes it.

    Some dogma is required in this pursuit, but religion can be too ordered and restrictive; some freedom is required as well in exploring God, but too much freedom can be chaotic.

    But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.

    You'll always know if you're thriving as a Christian, because it's tenets are all spelled out so clearly, whereas being a spiritual person is largely subjective and morally relative. It's vague and foggy, and I think people prefer that sense of ambiguity because it allows them to act in any way they please without the guilt and shame. And it allows them the excuse to avoid formal practice and the nuisance of personal responsibility and discipline. I think it's often more of a cop out than a noble choice.

    Anyway, I've got lots more to say but this is already way too long...
    Last edited by Mike; 14th February 2024 at 04:38.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Question Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    When using labels/language to describe anything "spiritual" (Christians included!) depends, in my view, heavily on:
    • 01. who says it?
    • 02. in what context?
    • 03. what are the conditioning of that person?
    • 04. why is it expressed that way?
    • 05. what preconceived (often unchecked/unchallenged) assumptions goes along with it?
    • 06. does it have any connections to tunnel vision narratives?
    • 07. what are the expectations? (if any)
    • 08. is it "faith based" if so ... is that based upon (blind?) trusting certain "authorities" you're not supposed to discuss nor challenge?
    • 09. is it connected to "group think" behavior (not really wanting to use own responsibility for your quality of thinking/reasoning/judging).
    • 10. is it part of a human based agenda?, if so how "flawless" is it? (this dilemma is with everything in life).
    • 11. who controls the definitions? how to "interpreted" them? ... and to what end? really?
    • 12. does that person who "defines" the labels & "use of language" want to learn anything new? ... or is his or her mind already made up?
    Is it based upon people "who need to be told how to act/think/reason" assuming that you can "not" do it from within? ... If that is the case, for some individuals it may be necessary indeed to be "guided" that way ... but at the same time there are many people who also get guidance from the heart, from within, doing even more good things/deeds without the need to be told to do so ... Are they "bad people" if they "just do it" without others telling them to do it? ... The assumption that all good deeds/acts without "the blessing of a belief system" seems like over the top control freaks wanting to take credit (claiming monopoly on genuine spirituality) of how they assume it "must" be done ... In my view, there is NO GUARANTEE that Christianity or any other "belief system" is "free" from corruption/abuse & evil (just google: pedophile priests protected by the Vatican). The same goes for all other "group think" behavior mannerism.

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳

    Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v3yuezc/?pub=ir01b
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 13th February 2024 at 14:55.
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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    Most people who call themselves Christian are regular church goers, and thus dependent on someone else’s interpretation of what in my view is very private and personal.

    Science and spirituality ought to lead to higher truths, and while science experiments can be replicated by others, a religious/spiritual experience is for one person only, and all attempts to force those insights on others who are not willing to accept them ought to be discouraged at all cost.
    What does "spirituality" mean exactly? To be "spiritual"?

    I can tell you exactly what it means to be a Christian in one sentence, in a very specific way, but I couldn't tell you what being "spiritual" means.

    Btw, I'm not putting that word in quotes to ridicule it; I'm doing it because it gets so overused in this context that it's become kind of vague and amorphous to me.
    As a Near Death Experiencer (and 100,000s like me worldwide) it is certainly not "vague" as I perfectly explained why here and here >>> but then again it is just my point of view it is not for everybody ... and I get that! ... I really do not mind others who do not (want to) get it / figure it out! ... Everybody has their own unique journey of discoveries or chose to stay stagnant in certain areas.

    Imagine a Universe that allows you to experience any strong held belief you project on others! ... So that you are aware how you have conditioned yourself to that specific frequency (like a mirror).
    • Would that be "cruel"? ... or is it just self-inflicted madness? ... (depending on the judgmental assumptions) ... Being 100% responsible for your own state of vibration!
    So how (spiritual) wise can you be if this is the case?

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 13th February 2024 at 11:16.
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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    • Willfully ignored or "overlooked" by most Catholics? ... If so, why?
    Pedophile Priests worldwide being protected by the Catholic Vatican

    Study among others, "Vatican Sex Crimes" documentary to be found: here & here and there are countless more reports from all over the world of Catholic priests abusing their authority.

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 13th February 2024 at 13:27.
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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.

    Jesus never did ritual.

    The Romans bastardised the Christ phenomenon, not least by converting the memory of his murder into a blood sacrifice ritual and selling that to billions.

    "Religion" is a head thing. It's various flavours and attempts at creating very convincing ( and nefariously useful ) facsimiles of raw or true faith. Faith is not religion, and religions are pretenders inserting themselves into our most natural state, that of pure faith.

    When you said you are leaning towards Catholicism my heart sank, but maybe that was only your way of trying to say that you are awakening to something about your true faith but have not yet extracted it from all that catholic/satanic inversion cultural packaging.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    For the record, I know (personally met) enough wonderful Christians (who I deeply appreciate) who do not have to explain who they are nor "prove themselves" to anyone and practice genuine spirituality just for what they are ... and they may well do the same without their religion if they are truly honest about it ... but that is the crux, they are conditioned not to say that out loud sadly enough >>> because that will be seen as "selfish" or "egotistical". Hence, religions LOVE to take all the credit for they think "their way" is "the only way".

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 13th February 2024 at 14:50.
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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    The idea of God being male is dismissed outright. I don't think God has a penis, but I think His fundamental energy is male. I'm quite certain of this. This is often scoffed at. I've seen God referred to as “she” in what the writer imagines is some clever, progressive troll I s'pose, and I've seen it written that way in earnest. I've heard God described as being genderless as well.
    If your Soul is a Multidimensional Consciousness Being/Entity experiencing how it is to be Human here on Earth >>> but also being an Alien on another planet before that, and maybe you have been both: (male & female) let's assume that is the case ... Why do you think Multidimensional Soul Consciousness choose to do that? ... What could be the purpose of that?
    • The (in my view) the biggest question of them all:
    Why is it that a "Multidimensional Soul Consciousness Being" chooses to have (temporary?) amnesia about who we really are? >>> we all might be very ancient souls! ... What has happened that we lost our heritage/legacy? ... Are we "punished" ? ... Do we live on a "Prison Planet" ... or are we "spiritual" tested ? .... To what end? ... Are volunteers coming here to "assist/help" totally underestimated how bad it really is, because of that, gets caught up in a seemingly endless web of unnecessary build up Karma lifetime after lifetime?

    Is our brief "existence" here on Earth (let's say on average ±85 years) a less than a split nanosecond in comparison to how old the Universe is! Why should we care about "male vs female" really? (in that context!) ... Think about that!

    That is why I will repeat over and over until I die: "Prime Creator is way too big for any man-made (or alien-made) religion!" it is BEYOND all what we can comprehend within the nanosecond we exist here in this Universe, which is even bigger than that, called: "Multiverse".

    On top of all that, we humans only see/sense a super-duper tiny fraction of all frequencies' range/spectrum, claiming we "figured it all out" (not!).
    • The arrogance is beyond extreme!
    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 14th February 2024 at 15:13.
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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by Mike (here)
    But I think Christianity gets it right far more often than "spirituality" does. It's too easy to renounce Christianity in favor of spirituality ..because spirituality doesn't ask anything of you, while Christianity does. Aside from attending mass, confession, and so on, it asks you to assume personal responsibility for your acts and adhere to very specific rules.
    It depends what you mean by "spirituality". All the above is founded on perhaps a faulty premise of what it means and is...

    God
    ...is not a human being; assigning anthropomorphic qualities to God (like gender) is useless. God is referred to as 'him' as a generalisation, as a tradition, but most understand the "Universal Spirit" or "Source" or whatever, can't possibly have gender, because He/She/It/They are in all things and IS all things. The very simplest reduction of God is love. God is love, and at our lowly human level Love is all we really need to understand and know about God.

    We might understand a little better what religion has done to humanity by substituting the word God for Love, and apply it to the following.

    Love punishes the wicked
    Love hates you, and will cast you to the lake of fire!
    (as Mitch would say)
    It is Love's will
    Love favours me, not you
    These are Love's chosen people
    (not those people)
    I am a Love fearing man!

    Religion stands between you and God. It separates you from God when in (spiritual) reality YOU ARE GOD. Obviously not God in totality, but if God was the ocean you are a drop within that ocean; it is you, and you are it, and no power in the universe can divorce one from the other.

    But religion tries. It's tried since the very beginning: in citing this chapter, one gets closer to God. In performing that ritual one is obeying God...

    All mind games for the spiritually illiterate, reminding them, each and every time they go to church they are weak and unworthy, and must strive harder to be part of God's kingdom -- when they ARE God's kingdom.

    Spirituality is the unfolding realisation that the door to God lies within you. Religion is the government bureaucrat standing in the way and denying you access unless you pay this fee and fill in all this paperwork (and don't forget the small print).

    Spirituality is for those who see. Region is for those convinced they are blind.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    ...

    Brilliant
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    I believe in an angelic beurocracy with angels acting as stage hands behind the scenes, pulling sand bags, dropping curtains cuing actors, whispering lines occasionally.
    The over soul seven books by Jane Roberts I suppose helped to create this view in my mind.
    I think folks with a flushed out sophisticated spirituality are fine.
    But folks need to remember that humanity as a whole is in need of the type of concrete guidance Christianity brings.

    And unlike Judaism and Islam..
    Christianity doesn't promote arrogance and give free passes for violence against non practitioners or non believers.

    The Tavistock University has been trying to stamp it out with pop music, women's lib, alcoholic debauchery, drug abuse and the promotion of casual sex.

    The middle class of America and Europe are under attack and Christianity brings these folks together and helps unite them.

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Christianity has produced some amazing mystics, but so have other religions as well.
    To me, mysticism is the path of the second way, or “the way of the monk”, as Gurdjieff called it.
    Emotional ecstasy, and devotion.
    The essential goal of Christianity is transcendence, and overcoming the normal reaction to the enemy, which is to get even.
    By commanding to love thy neighbor, and even thy enemy, Christ gave the command to strive for higher consciousness, a level where hatred is no longer a driving force.
    While most new age spirituality sends out messages to return people towards self love, via yoga, and other practices.
    True spiritual growth has the aim of striving towards overcoming the lower self, and with that intent there is a self evaluation, aka the voice of conscience.
    So to me true Christianity includes spirituality, whereas spirituality does not necessarily live up to the Christian ideal.

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Spirituality is more about 'consciousness' than about GOD (which is what Abrahamic religions are mostly about). It is focussed 'inward' as a mostly (higher-)self discovery path instead of 'outward'. There is no such 'inward' thing in 'exoteric' (outer) religion but (as ulli already correctly put it) in 'esoteric' or 'mystic' streams of religions it exists and always existed. However, the mystic side of religion is suppressed and the general society is mainly faced with the 'exoteric' branches of the Abrahamic religions nowadays.

    I personally find 'exoteric' religions dull and literally 'soulless'. For me they are used as a tool to manipulate the masses by the elites, not just today but through the course of history. That is what 'exotericism' was created for in the first place, so I believe.

    One of the key elements is the anthropomorphisation of what is 'God' (or Source, All That Is, cal it what you want) - making it/him or them (including all polytheistic religions, e.g. God pantheons of many 'pagan' cults) a 'human'.

    Honestly, I find it all 'childish' - quite literally, no matter if mono- or polytheistic. What is also called 'spirituality' is the more 'adult' version of being 'aware' that more exists than this physical world.

    However, as I said before, I still don't like this word either because it has been diluted by many things, especially in the West.

    For some it is also synonymous to the term "New Age" which has a derisive tone and lots of negative connotations for many already. I think this is what religious people often refer to when they denounce the 'spiritual' people who don't belong to 'their' religion. For them 'New Age' is the same 'thing'. So this thread could also have been named "Religion vs. New Age" or so and we would have the same or a similar discussion.

    For me both concepts are insufficient. I reject Religion (exotericism) as well as New Age (when equated to Spirituality).

    I do like the mystic branches including those of the religions and even read books and articles about them (Sufism, Christian Mysticism, etc.).

    One good example of two mystic branches combined was given by the life and work of Willigis Jaeger from Germany. He was a priest first and then also became an Eastern Zen master. His aim was to combine the best of two worlds by teaching Christian Contemplation techniques and Zen Mindfulness Meditation. He founded a company and a retreats in a monastery in Germany.

    If you're interested, here's more (translated):

    https://www-benediktushof--holzkirch..._x_tr_pto=wapp

    "Center for meditation and mindfulness

    The Benediktushof was founded in 2003 by the Benedictine and Zen master Willigis Jäger (1925-2020) and is now one of the largest centers for Christian contemplation, mindfulness and Zen meditation in Europe. Here people can come to themselves in silence, reflect on the essentials and return to everyday life strengthened with practical impulses."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willigis_J%C3%A4ger

    "Willigis Jäger (German: [ˈvɪlɪgɪs ˈjɛːgɐ]; 7 March 1925 – 20 March 2020) was a German Catholic priest and Benedictine monk. He was a Zen master who trained and taught in the Sanbo Kyodan tradition. Jäger founded a centre of Zen and contemplation at the Münsterschwarzach Abbey in 1983, and his own Benediktushof, an inter-faith centre of meditation and awareness, in 2003."
    Every day shows its face to me. I don‘t care how it speaks to me. I love every hour.
    I love the old cat who is laughing secretly because she knows all paths.
    - Karat (Jede Stunde)

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  25. Link to Post #13
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Religion is without, spirituality is within, and what lies within is yours. It's the only thing in all Creation that truly is yours, and God gave it to you: your consciousness, your beingness, your Eternal Soul. You are therefore Master of your own evolution – not the preacher, the pastor; not the Bible, Torah, or Koran. You don't need religion, because religion assumes authority over you. With one hand it snatches the reins that are YOURS, and whips you into submission with the other.

    There are many who turn to religion because they cannot master themselves, and that's fine. But for the seeker who recognises his or her own spiritual sovereignty, they will see religion as a straight-jacket, a cell for the mind and soul.

    It must be understood that the fundamental basis of spirituality is the blossoming of inner truth revealed to us by God, or one's higher self if you prefer. This awareness increases over successive incarnations as rich and poor, black and white, male and female, and many more variations; and with greater experience and expanded knowledge we come to learn, as a basic example, what is good, what is bad, and the difference between right and wrong – whereas religion tells you these things.

    What it tells you is a distortion anyway. It insists, for example, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. This is cause and effect, the law of Karma well-known in spirituality. In religion however, instead of revealing the divine purpose of this law it assumes the form of an executioner's axe.

    Christianity denies reincarnation. It would have you believe you only live once. With only one life to get it right, only one life to be saved, all the more reason to go to church, right?

    Wrong.

    Religion at its core is a political tool devised by Man to control Man and keep him in the dark. Jesus did not come to earth to start a religion; he came to share and circulate higher spiritual truths, and demonstrate the fullness of humanity's potential.

    John 14:12

    Truly, I say to you, the one who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do...

    We are Jesus, we are God. Spirituality unlocks the path to higher learning, religion retards it.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    I am a Christian. But it has taken a good bit of thinking to become clear about what that means - and does not mean.

    A very short and simple summary is that Christianity is making the choice to follow Jesus Christ through death to resurrected eternal life in Heaven.

    This matter of what is aimed-for, what is wanted, after death - and the means of achieving it; is what sets Christianity apart from all other religions and spiritualties. If someone doesn't want resurrected eternal Heavenly life - then they aren't (at present) a Christian.

    This can be found set-out and explained in the Fourth Gospel - "John" - if you can make the effort to read it afresh (this took me a full year - and I had already been a Christian for several years) and setting aside what you think you know from other sources.

    But Christianity is active, takes effort, is opt-in, and validated not by any external source (church, book, tradition) but ultimately by the deepest intuition we can achieve, with guidance from the Holy Ghost. Everything else depends on primary intuition - and we need to be explicitly aware of the fact.

    The key to Christianity is love - but not the modern understanding of love as just a strong emotion, but a recognition that love is the basis of divine creation, therefore of everything good and knowable.

    Love of God and divine creation are the basis of wanting "salvation".

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    Avalon Member TrumanCash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Generally speaking, I think "Christianity" has evolved into a mostly positive influence on the world today, in spite of the erroneous dogma. I say this from the perspective of one who was burned at the stake during the Inquisition, LOL! Yes, really.

    After growing up with Christianity I was labeled a "blasphemer" and a "devil worshipper" for even mentioning the subject of past lives, which most modern day Christians reject.

    After recovering the memories of many past lives and working with abductees/contactees who are followed from lifetime to lifetime by abducting Grays, Mantis, Reptilians and Anunnaki/Elohim, who were actually ETs in flying saucers masquerading as "gods" or as "the one God", I have a unique perspective on the Bible and Christianity from a firsthand viewpoint.

    Unfortunately, the Bible has been mistranslated and misunderstood so that has led to various conflicting Christian sects. For sure, there are sociopaths and psychopaths in all religions and that is due to the machinations of the human-looking Anunnaki/Elohim establishing religions with embedded secret societies that practice secret blood-letting, blood-drinking, human sacrifice rituals behind very closed doors while presenting a benevolent facade of which most religious people are unaware.

    Christians practice the innocuous mirror of these rituals with the Eucharist wherein they drink the (symbolic) blood of "Christ" (wine or grape juice) and eat a cracker symbolic of the body of Christ. This was originally practiced in Egypt in relation to the fertility "god" Osiris. When the Nile rose and fertilized the grain fields, most Egyptians made ale and made crackers representing the body of Osiris in this fertility ritual. Unbeknownst to the common Egyptians was that the dark side of this ritual was carried out secretly in the Great Pyramid by sacrificing a human being and drinking her blood.

    "Christ" originally meant "anointing" and was the fertility ritual practiced in the Middle East thousands of years ago wherein a sculpture of a penis was smeared with oil. In some places a full-size statue with erect penis was mounted by a virgin female. Also, the word "Hell" was never in the Bible; it was originally "Gehenna" a place on the outskirts of Jerusalem. "Hell" was originally the Nordic Goddess of the Underworld. (So how the hell did a Nordic Goddess make it into the Bible?)

    Both the Old and New Testaments are based on the machinations of the Anunnaki/Elohim presenting both a light (positive) and dark (negative) side. This was presented in the form of a video documentary "Zeitgeist" and my independent research revealed these were the false "gods" which also included "the one God" concept of a head male "father" God sitting on a throne in the clouds, etc, (e.g., Ptaah in Egypt). Ra was the Son/Sun of God (Ptaah).

    If you look at the symbolism in the New Testament it most definitely parallels the Egyptian fertility "god" Osiris, which includes the Eucharist, the cross, the sun/son rising on the third day of the winter solstice (e.g., "Christmas"), good vs evil, dark vs light, sacrifice, etc, etc. In the Middle East there was a ritual that was practiced wherein an animal such as a bull or lamb was laid on a grate with a human underneath. When the animal was slain the person underneath was literally "washed in the blood of the lamb".

    Personally, I like the definition of "god" in Galatians--"God is Love". And in reaching far down the time stream in my own past I discovered that, yes, spiritual Love was and is our native state. However, Jordan Maxwell indicted that the phrase was mistranslated and it was actually "God is Jove", which would indicate that "he" was one of the nefarious Anunnaki/Elohim.

    Ironically, the Old Testament states: "Ye are Gods". In denial, Christians often state that well, yes, but that's "gods" with a small "g" not "God" with a capital "G" (a concept that I find rather cringe-worthy).

    Nevertheless, from my viewpoint and research, this defines the difference between the religious dogma of Christianity and the positive "spiritual" state of Love, which does not function on dogma, but on a positive/benevolent state of being as an individual.

    Perhaps the Jesus/Yeshua fellow really walked the Earth and perhaps he was an ET. I say this due to a video documentary that Bill Ryan posted on Avalon THE FRIENDSHIP CASE – THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF MASS ALIEN CONTACT (2014).

    These ETs live in a constant state of spiritual Love and I highly recommend watching this video if you haven't seen it yet.

    https://www.bitchute.com/video/cG30Zu7eHeLA/
    Last edited by TrumanCash; 13th February 2024 at 18:02.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Wow, some truly excellent responses here! Thanks all!

    Before responding knee-jerk I think I'll pray on it first (I might be serious here!)

    I included a smiley face there because, if I'm a Christian, I'm a lousy one currently. I haven't been to mass in ages, ditto confession, I can't randomly quote scripture, and so on and so forth. So none of this is a lecture from the pulpit; just my impressions and opinions.

    I anticipated some fire and brimstone talk, some references to pedophile priests (well done John) etc. I'm going to stumble thru some of this. I don't have all the answers and don't pretend to. I'm operating on gut feeling mostly, and it'll be interesting to see if my mind can translate that into coherent sentences.

    If this is "The Brothers Karmazov", think of me as Aloysha maybe. And perhaps some of you will be Ivan, or some version of that. I think it's a good intellectual exercise, challenging assumptions on both sides. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
    When using labels/language to describe anything "spiritual" (Christians included!) depends, in my view, heavily on:
    • 01. who says it?
    • 02. in what context?
    • 03. what are the conditioning of that person?
    • 04. why is it expressed that way?
    • 05. what preconceived (often unchecked/unchallenged) assumptions goes along with it?
    • 06. does it have any connections to tunnel vision narratives?
    • 07. what are the expectations? (if any)
    • 08. is it "faith based" if so ... is that based upon (blind?) trusting certain "authorities" you're not supposed to discuss nor challenge?
    • 09. is it connected to "group think" behavior (not really wanting to use own responsibility for your quality of thinking/reasoning/judging).
    • 10. is it part of a human based agenda?, if so how "flawless" is it? (this dilemma is with everything in life).
    • 11. who controls the definitions? how to "interpreted" them? ... and to what end? really?
    • 12. does that person who "defines" the labels & "use of language" want to learn anything new? ... or is his or her mind already made up?
    Is it based upon people "who need to be told how to act/think/reason" assuming that you can "not" do it from within? ... If that is the case, for some individuals it may be necessary indeed to be "guided" that way ... but at the same time there are many people who also get guidance from the heart, from within, doing even more good things/deeds without the need to be told to do so ... Are they "bad people" if they "just do it" without others telling them to do it? ... The assumption that all good deeds/acts without "the blessing of a belief system" seems like over the top control freaks wanting to take credit (claiming monopoly on genuine spirituality) of how they assume it "must" be done ... In my view, there is NO GUARANTEE that Christianity or any other "belief system" is "free" from corruption/abuse & evil (just google: pedophile priests protected by the Vatican). The same goes for all other "group think" behavior mannerism.

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳

    Source: https://www.rumble.com/video/v3yuezc/?pub=ir01b

    Hi John, I view Alan Watts as the sort of comfort food of spirituality. He's like that pizza and nap you have after you've lost $1000 betting the over on the Super Bowl.

    I like listening to Alan Watts. Just like I like reading "spiritual" literature (FYI: I'm putting the word "spiritual" in quotes simply because it gets used so often and I don't know what it means exactly).

    This will likely sound counterintuitive, but that's sort of the issue I have with him: he's too easy to like. He always makes me feel good. He has a "do as thou wilt" ethos that I find to be more spiritually infantile than spiritually mature. He appeals to the parts of me that do not want to be challenged.

    In many ways, I wish he was right about everything. It's like listening to Wayne Dyer, or someone of that ilk; I walk away feeling very fuzzy and warm, but my mind feels like mush. Watts is highly intelligent and has value in fits and spurts, but a steady diet of him is inadvisable, in my view.

    It's also my understanding that he died of alcoholism, and was an open drug user. I will be the last to cast judgement here, being quite the drinker myself in the past. But it suggests to me that his spiritual framework was insufficient and didn't orient him towards God in a way meaningful enough to prevent his vices.

    re Faith based stuff: faith will always be waiting for all of us at the very end of our intellectual abilities. Even basic things one does on a daily basis involve faith. You trust drivers not to smash into you on the road; you trust the integrity of bridges and traffic lights; you trust that your car won't catch fire on the freeway etc etc etc.

    You've really said a mouthful here (lots of good stuff) and I'd like to reply to all of it, but time is of the essence my friend. I hope to eventually get around to it in some shape or form
    Last edited by Mike; 13th February 2024 at 21:17.

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by norman (here)
    Jesus never started a religion or proposed one or asked anyone to start one.


    Here are a few of Jesus's words that seem that seem to indicate otherwise.

    Quote Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
    Matthew 28:16-20
    Quote And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.
    Luke 22:19

    - - -

    Quote Jesus never did ritual.
    Not only did Jesus do rituals, he transformed them.

    Not only did he attend the wedding at Cana (a ritual) and then transformed water into wine.

    He presided over a Passover Seder (one we now refer to as The Last Supper) and modified the ritual to become The Eucharist.

    He healed people of leprosy and other diseases, drove out demons and caused the death to come back to life.

    And sermons were part of his rituals, just as they are part of ours now. And he gave a lot of them.

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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.

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    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Christianity vs Spirituality

    Quote Posted by ExomatrixTV (here)
    [LIST][*][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=3][B]Willfully ignored or "overlooked" by most Catholics? ...
    I'm just as horrified as everyone else with pedophile priests.

    Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) we don't know how many people who identify as "spiritual" or atheist or agnostic that have committed the same atrocity, so in that way accurate judgements are elusive.

    It seems inappropriate maybe to be saying something like that, but the thread title is 'Christianity vs Spirituality'; when it comes to something like pedophilia, I don't think we can accurately and justly judge one group to be worse than the other.

    ¤=[Post Update]=¤

    Quote Posted by Matthew (here)
    With Christianity forget the rules and guilt. Your salvation is not achieved by your works.
    Of course it is

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