Many American kids can NOT read

[Bill Ryan]

I'm opening this thread as a (sort of) companion thread to Deschooling Society, which I started a little earlier today.

'Deschooling' in itself won't solve the illiteracy problem, of course. There were very few schools anywhere 2,000 years ago, in a very largely illiterate world. (The Wiki page List of oldest schools is interesting, but there was also semi-formal schooling for some in Ancient Greece and Rome, as well as in Ancient Sumeria.)

The real issue here is that today's schools are not working, at least in America. (And, I suspect, in the UK and EU as well.) To prompt some discussion, here's one of many videos about this, all easily found. (The channel Etacude English Teachers, which this is from, posts videos like this every week.)

High Schoolers Can’t Read Basic Level: US Schools in Crisis

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ghN0cBOjRAs

[Victoria]

Yikes! For a short time, I worked as a postmaster and was appalled by how many millennials (and those younger) who entered the office, could not read or follow directions and had zero understanding of how to mail something. They seemed incapable of filling out simple forms and were basically devoid of any experience in performing small tasks without assistance of a calculator/ computer. You know, some look like they are older than they are and tower at 6+ feet, so I was shocked to find they didn't have a clue about anything: from counting change, to filling out their parents' addresses or even signing their names and reading regulations. Most asked sheepishly for me to do it all for them. They also absolutely 100% could not read or write in cursive. I'm sincerely hoping this decline is only apparent in portions of the US and not the rest of the world, too.

[Bill Ryan]

Bumping this thread with another short video, mainly TikTok reports from despairing (and unbelieving!) teachers. There's nothing here that's not been posted above, but it's another revealing indication of the state of US education (and in many cases, US parenting).



Why American Kids Can’t Read Anymore — The Shocking Truth Teachers Won’t Say Out Loud

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4kxcvG623M

The text:

Why are so many American kids struggling with reading today? In this video, I break down the real reasons behind America’s reading crisis—and it’s not just phones or “lazy kids.” Schools across the U.S. are seeing historic drops in reading ability, and teachers are sounding the alarm. From broken curriculum choices, lack of phonics instruction, failing reading programs, and distracted classrooms, to the impact of social media and parents being pulled away from reading at home… we need to talk about what’s really happening.

In this video you’ll learn:

✔️ Why kids aren’t mastering basic reading skills anymore
✔️ What schools and teachers say is going wrong
✔️ Why phonics and structured literacy matter
✔️ The truth about reading scores, screen time and comprehension
✔️ What parents and educators can do right now.

If you’re a teacher, parent, or student, this is a conversation America urgently needs.

[shaberon]

I tried to think of a corollary, and, I can't.

That is, I have not witnessed what amounts to illiteracy. I see inability, such as comparing ounces to other units.

This is what we were told in 1976:


Americans won't use the metric system because they are unable to learn.


That's right. I can go to any recipe in the world, which will tell me something like 450g of flour, but then you have to re-estimate it as volume so an American can fill a cup to a given line.

I certainly don't deal with the total number of youth, but, I do get a high proportion of kids out of high school. Why?


For one thing, adults are not looking for work.

However, a lot of these kids are actually very intelligent and well-informed in something they are interested in.

But if you learn stuff and go into society, here's what you find:


Literate adults are far stupider.


I can't mitigate that statement.

They are fostering a cycle of retardation, that is, actual developmental disability.

That means whenever one of these unfortunate victims bumps into me, they get paved. Sometimes I adjust my responses from "not true" to "actually backwards". And then of course, a young person will have to pass the stick, because "so and so told me". That's right. Your literate authority figure is actually backwards in a de-humanizing way that would be absolutely humiliating if anyone had a clue.

That's why I keep almost getting killed by garbage. You cannot operate a trash can in a normal manner.

So, no, I haven't had to deal with anything as bad as not recognizing words and numbers, but, I am afraid this "achievement" only enters you into a realm of nonsense.

The whole thing is very backwards.

[Flash]

Posted by Victoria (here)
Yikes! For a short time, I worked as a postmaster and was appalled by how many millennials (and those younger) who entered the office, could not read or follow directions and had zero understanding of how to mail something. They seemed incapable of filling out simple forms and were basically devoid of any experience in performing small tasks without assistance of a calculator/ computer. You know, some look like they are older than they are and tower at 6+ feet, so I was shocked to find they didn't have a clue about anything: from counting change, to filling out their parents' addresses or even signing their names and reading regulations. Most asked sheepishly for me to do it all for them. They also absolutely 100% could not read or write in cursive. I'm sincerely hoping this decline is only apparent in portions of the US and not the rest of the world, too.

It is better in Canada, we classify into literate, functional literate (read enough for work or to follow instructions) and illeterate. 52% of the population is functional literate, but won’t read a book. Tiny amount are illeterate

Europeans literates are much more.

However it does not prove having critical thinking and/or being aware enough about manipulations and mind programming.

I am often surprise by the lack of basic understanding of basic stuff in Montreal, but I am often really appalled atthe ignorance of Americans, real ignorance, much more than in Canada (I visit often enough the US). It is truly sad what has been done to US schools in the last 40 years (to ours as well but at a lesser degree)

[AutumnW]

That pretty much approximates what I've seen, from living in the States for several years and Canada. American national narcissism plays a role in their understanding of subjects like history and geography as well. And the more ignorant (not stupid) they are, the more the Dunning Kruger phenomenon is triggered. There are few Canadians, my age, I am happy to engage and even fewer Americans. Boomers tend to be mind numbingly mundane, for the most part.

[Brigantia]

I've often seen small children - about 3 to 5 years old - when I'm out and about in town with their heads bent over a smartphone. Before I started school, my mum would sit with me at the table and teach me some basics, like how to tell the time, how to count, add and subtract, and how to read and write. That gave me quite a head start when I went to pre-school at the age of 4.

Are parents not doing this anymore, and giving them a phone instead?

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Brigantia (here)
...like how to tell the time...

And many high school graduates, and even college students, can't tell the time from an analog clock.

[rgray222]

I think Trump is on the right track; he is advancing his plans to close the Department of Education, which was started under Democrats in 1979. From that day forward, there has been a steady decline in learning and test scores by virtually every metric known to man. At this point, the experiment can be considered an abject failure.

Trump is attempting to push all the money, authority and resources out to the state level, which will begin the healing process. The problem is that the Trump haters and the Democrats are willing to break their own toys to prevent Trump from having a win in any arena. They are sadly more than willing to sacrifice their own children. Hate really is a mental illness.

Homeschooling in the United States has transitioned from the fringe to the fastest growing form of education

Homeschooling in the United States has transitioned from a fringe movement to a mainstream educational choice, with significant growth observed over the past decade. Recent data indicate that approximately 5.2% of U.S. children ages 5–17 received academic instruction at home during the 2022–23 school year, up from 3.7% in 2018–19, reflecting a sustained increase beyond pandemic-era spikes. The National Home Education Research Institute estimates that more than 3 million students are currently learning at home, and recent analyses suggest the homeschooling population may now represent about 6% of all students, compared to around 3% before the pandemic. This shift is not merely a temporary trend but is described as a fundamental change in how American families view education, with many families seeking greater control, flexibility, and alignment with their values.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educa...a-by-district/

[AutumnW]

Most schools in poor states will close. There will be a lot more kids in Alabama and Mississippi ambling about, parent(s) at work, getting into major trouble. And how will Republicans deal with that? They'll lower the legal working age to 10 years old or thereabouts. Wait for it. It'll happen.

[shaberon]

Posted by Flash (here)
I am often surprise by the lack of basic understanding of basic stuff in Montreal, but I am often really appalled atthe ignorance of Americans, real ignorance, much more than in Canada (I visit often enough the US).

That's where I need everyone to throw me a bone, because, although I have not witnessed complete illiteracy, when you put it as American ignorance, that is what I have been clashing for decades.

The adult version is something like American Zionism cannot be understood by Europeans who came through actual histories of Pogroms and so forth, Americans believe in tv evangelists from the 1960s. John Birch is another term I extend beyond its technical historical context to summarize a similar shut-in type of ignorance. And if you are from Canada or Europe, you just can't understand how dumb they are.

During this time, the political undermining of the educational system was done at a state level by private interests. Someone posted a thread on Avalon that explains this, but, I can't remember where, because it is one of the few things I simply agree with. And so what you have is a corrupt ring of book salesmen determining what goes into the human mind. That's at least from the 1970s so it has long been submerged behind "further concerns", like you have to pass through a metal detector, you can't bring a peanut butter sandwich for lunch, and so on.

Compared to what I am used to, when I go around these days, the human race looks extinct.

At best, it may be a convalescent center.

Condition of near atrophy.

But, I mean, we've been using frankenfood, artificial lights, and mandatory drugs to such a major extent, why would you expect anyone to be able to read?

How could anyone claim that the "things that have been done" are somehow good?

[Isserley]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Brigantia (here)
...like how to tell the time...

And many high school graduates, and even college students, can't tell the time from an analog clock.

I don't know why, but I don't find it particularly strange or reprehensible. Especially since analog clocks are a thing of the past and people keep them at home only for decorative purposes.
We could equally speak for many other practices and technologies such as cursive writing, memorizing phone numbers, reading paper maps, typewriters, floppy discs & cd's..
Technologies and knowledge change rapidly and young people only use the current tools they have very well and leave the "old ways" in the past.

Every generation does it, to a greater or lesser extent, and then the old people say the same thing over and over again about the decline of the youth.

[shaberon]

Posted by Isserley (here)
I don't know why, but I don't find it particularly strange or reprehensible. Especially since analog clocks are a thing of the past and people keep them at home only for decorative purposes.

We could equally speak for many other practices and technologies such as cursive writing, memorizing phone numbers, reading paper maps, typewriters, floppy discs & cd's..
Technologies and knowledge change rapidly and young people only use the current tools they have very well and leave the "old ways" in the past.

Every generation does it, to a greater or lesser extent, and then the old people say the same thing over and over again about the decline of the youth.

I use an analog clock every few minutes.

Often, a typewriter or a pencil would serve me far greater than a computer.

There is nothing digital that will ever be the sound of a vacuum tube or a record. Some of our progress is certainly downgrades.

Families still pass down a Bible, meaning things aren't discarded just because they are obsolete.

It's an interesting dynamic about change over time. I easily remember our assistant principal getting on a lunch table with this [I]John Birch[/I tirade that told us how useless and corrupt we were, and so the country would be taken over by communists without firing a shot, and that was certain to happen twenty or more years ago.

So I mean, I think my parental generation was simply wrong on a few counts.

In most ways, those around me are still repeating the same circles with very little changed, except the perennial phone like an IV drip bag. It takes the cake. I've seen parties that consist of hovering over your phone. They don't know how to talk. They don't know how to do anything. But they have to know how to read in order to use it. That's why the premise of this thread puzzles me a bit.


I don't understand what it's like to spend your 20s at one job that your parents drive you to. They have to do that, because, if you could afford a car at all, you couldn't afford the insurance, you'd have to get another job.

It used to be common to quit school at 16, because you could go to work, there were a ton of cheap cars, there was no insurance, it was almost free, or at least minimum wage meant that it was an actual livable wage. You could enter the adult world and make your way. These days, chances are I'm going to politely ignore you and try to get rid of you.

As far as I can tell, since the time of that screaming communist speech, society has, in fact, totally changed, just not in the way he said it. The abundance of rules seems to be only to the detriment of the human being.

[Bill Ryan]

Vanessa Wingårdh usually posts videos about technical developments in AI. But here, she's connecting AI with the scary and dramatic drop in the number of American students who can barely read.



40% of [American] Kids Can’t Read, and Teachers Are Quitting

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=XTugyu2F0pc

[petra]

This is really shocking and confirms my suspicions of society being "dumbed down"