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Thread: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote Posted by John (here)
    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    I based my statement on the fact that abstract thought begins at approximately 17 yrs of age. This is the last faculty to form in regard to learning.
    Could you please define abstract thought in the context you are using here?
    Well, I can't speak for Icecold here (or anywhere else for that matter ), but I can provide an example from my past.

    I was quite a sharp student in mathematics when young. My high school math teacher would get me extra books on mathematical logic, axiomatic set theory, second order predicate calculus and such. These were subjects that are best understood entirely in the abstract, their connections to the mundane physical world being rather incidental.

    It was not until I was 18 or 20 that I began to become comfortable with these topics though, despite many many hours pondering them in earlier years.

    They are not "hard" topics; much easier on the brain than second order partial differential equations, tensor analysis or quantum mechanics (none of which I ever mastered.) But they just don't connect with younger brains (except perhaps for the few ultra geniuses who worked at another level.)
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote Posted by Paul (here)
    Quote Posted by John (here)
    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    I based my statement on the fact that abstract thought begins at approximately 17 yrs of age. This is the last faculty to form in regard to learning.
    Could you please define abstract thought in the context you are using here?
    Well, I can't speak for Icecold here (or anywhere else for that matter ), but I can provide an example from my past.

    I was quite a sharp student in mathematics when young. My high school math teacher would get me extra books on mathematical logic, axiomatic set theory, second order predicate calculus and such. These were subjects that are best understood entirely in the abstract, their connections to the mundane physical world being rather incidental.

    It was not until I was 18 or 20 that I began to become comfortable with these topics though, despite many many hours pondering them in earlier years.

    They are not "hard" topics; much easier on the brain than second order partial differential equations, tensor analysis or quantum mechanics (none of which I ever mastered.) But they just don't connect with younger brains (except perhaps for the few ultra geniuses who worked at another level.)
    Thank you Paul,

    Most professional educators are aware of the fact that at around the age of 17....because they see it....a student will begin to grasp abstract concepts which they were incapable of grasping at an earlier age. It is well know that this occurs. This is an AVERAGE marker. A statistical marker. Not all students will develop abstract thinking at this stage, some later and some earlier. However it remains the average age.

    Piaget sets abstract thinking at an earlier age, but this is not in evidence and is disputed by educators. However, this chart does give you an idea of developmental stages in learning. Autism spectrum disorder is clearly identified during learning. Fully developed abstract thinking, the final stage in learning, is around 17 years of age.
    http://www.childdevelopmentinfo.com/...t/piaget.shtml

    Yes Bill the bell curve is wide. If you pick out special cases as you have, they will likely fall outside the parameters. Using outliers in no way disturbs the average...even if it is a generalisation....it has to be a generalisation, because of unique individual learning capacity.
    Last edited by Icecold; 21st March 2011 at 03:21.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Like most here initially I thought this video was very inspiring but watched it again carefully as a faint bell had rung in me. I then took in on the second watch Richard Branson in the mix,the very good friend of royalty,and big businessman. Well he seems very nice on the surface but he doesn't inspire me.
    I visited the website and sorry to swim against the mainstream opinion here but I read that 'a centralised think tank' had been set up for Wayseers. This type of speak is Common Purpose blurb (see Brian Gerrish state of the nation) and think tanks belong to Govts. Reading on about the chap he has worked for microsoft and been the CEO of a very large company etc. As Bill says nothing wrong with that but he is in a minority..there sure arn't many CEO's putting this message out.
    I think the video is very good & slick as str8thinker says but I am watchful and rely on my intuition which tells me caution needed here.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    I don't care if the man is trying to sell a book.

    I feel justified for all of those years where I broke rules and basically told society to "stuff it" in favor of doing things my own way.

    It's how I got where I am. Taking bold risks and doing things that I never thought I'd be able to do. I'm proud to be a misfit!

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote Posted by Icecold (here)
    Quote The distinctions between ADHD, Asperger's, Tourette syndrome and dyslexia are by no means as clear-cut in real life as many imagine. Many people are diagnosed with ADHD or Asperger's when in fact they have dyslexia, or even a combination of both. It is significant that LoPorto concentrates on ADHD without considering dyslexia, or Asperger's for that matter (viz. the Epic: FAIL article). Nothing there about trying out glasses with differently tinted lenses to help dyslexics.

    I have no idea what role the so-called Neanderthal gene plays in Asperger's or dyslexia; there are many reasons to account for why these conditions are often "comorbid" (concurrent).
    There is no conclusive evidence as to why there has been a marked increase in the frequency or appearance of Asperger's or ADHD.

    As an educator, I specialised in Special Ed at university. Specifically Asperger's Syndrome. The work I do now in BWE and NLP has led me to believe that there is an explanation for the increase in both Asperger's and ADHD, and it is not related to genes, or chemicals.

    I have introduced a drug free treatment that I believe will address the problems associated with both states of mind. I believe both hyper states are a product of enviromental artifacts which appeared on mass at roughly the same time as the two mind states began to increase in frequency.

    I have a website dedicated to this view and I produce products which directly address the issue.

    Tony Atwood's work is world class and at present I am compiling a business plan which I will present to him. He is located in my locality.

    http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/
    I think that Aspergers should be looked at as a case of human evolution that isn't fully realized.

    I know that some with Aspergers are incapable of being "normal" droids in society. I know that I am, despite the fact that I often try to skirt the rules whenever possible.

    There is nothing wrong with thinking outside of the box. Society tends to repress those who do because the majority of humans are scared to take bold risks.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    .............
    Last edited by FearNot; 25th April 2011 at 08:47.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Well I thought I'd test his sincerity by posing as an unfinancial member of the community and asking for a free copy of his book The Wayseers.

    After a few days, I received an email with a download link. The email asked me not to hand it around as the PDF file was linked to my email address. Fair enough, I guess. In the opening pages it says

    Quote This is an abbreviated version of “The Wayseers” e-book, because some elements had to be removed in order to meet the 1 MB file size limit of our automated Financial Assistance Program.
    Big deal. I'm sure the 1 Mb size has little to do with their program. The book didn't mention what had been omitted, but on reading through it it didn't seem to make any real difference, you'll be glad to hear.

    When Anthony Robbins decided to make a career out of teaching people to be a success in life, one of the first things he did was to sit down and read just about every self-help and personal success book available at the time. And (this was before the Internet) the shelves were and still are jammed with them. So in order to stand out from the rest, a successful book needs a gimmick. And The Wayseers has at least three. First, there's its catchy title. Second, its catchy manifesto (carefully printed in full within). Third, its implied status by association with medical research in genetics and neuroscience.

    After wading through seven pages of reader testimonials, I was ready to get to the real action, but found I could not copy text out of it. No matter - a quick trip to http://www.pdfunlock.com/ fixed that.

    Quote Wayseers usually share a common gene – a genetic polymorphism called the DRD4 exon III 7-repeat allele (DRD4 7R for short). This Wayseer gene causes the brain’s reward pathways to override the prefrontal cortex brain’s neurologically (sic) repression mechanism, which typically censors unconscious thoughts and impulses. This difference encourages risk-taking, novelty seeking, increased alpha/theta brainwave patterns, susceptibility to addictive behavior, ADD/ADHD and bipolar, propensity for genius level problem solving and creativity, and gives one access to that miraculous quality that makes great heroes, charismatic political leaders, rock stars, entrepreneurs, movie-moguls, rebel billionaires, inspired artists, mystics and pioneers.
    So we even have a Wayseer gene now. Seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog. No advice about how to go about determining whether you have this gene or not. And what if you don't? Does that condemn you to a life of mediocrity? Nope, but it might just take a little longer.

    Quote Wayseers however are not limited only to those who have this DRD4 7R gene; because other gene combinations, decades of fervent prayer or meditation, psychotropic drugs or even medications like L-dopa (used to treat Parkinson’s disease) can cause one’s brain to reconstitute into a form that allows for Wayseer consciousness.
    In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned the dangers of unsupervised medication with L-dopa, so won't bore you with them again. Just don't try it, or other psychotropic drugs for that matter. But if you become or already are addicted to some substance, the book explains later on how a Wayseer can get himself/herself out of it! L. Ron Hubbard, eat your heart out.

    LoPorto then invites you to test yourself using a fairly simple questionnaire to determine whether you really are Wayseer material.

    Quote As you read this book you may be surprised by how many statements simply ring true for you. When this happens, don’t second guess yourself. Trust that sense of rightness. That is your perception of the Way.
    In this Way, nobody misses out. Just trust yourself. Hmm, That sounds like Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803 – 1882).

    Quote Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string.
    It seems you need to trust your impulses a lot if you wish to become a Wayseer. It also helps to make your impetuous inclinations work for you, rather than against you, which is good advice to anyone willing to try for a change.

    Quote Studies using fMRI brain scans reveal that when people are in love the power balances in their brain shift. The brain becomes “manic,” “driven,” and “addictive”. A typical Normal Type brain once ruled by the prefrontal cortex, when “madly in love” experiences a neurological coup d'état of sorts from the right VTA [whatever that is] (which floods the brain dopamine overriding executive authority in the prefrontal cortex), medial caudate nucleus and nucleus accumbens, which are each reward centers of the brain causing “in love” people to become more impulsive, passionate, unstable and uncharacteristically “free”.

    Curiously, when you compare typical fMRI brain scans of people in love with those of people who have been diagnosed with the myriad of disorders almost exclusively attributed to Wayseers such as ADHD, Bipolar Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or Addictive Personality you discover they are essentially identical. The fMRIs reveal that natural born Wayseers appear to have brains relatively hardwired to the brain state of being in love. This may indicate that naturally more impulsive, passionate, unstable and free Wayseers may also be more attuned to and influenced by the impulses of love (or the Way).
    So I guess we're all Wayseers of one kind or another, underneath our addictions and whatever other personality disorders might be present.

    Nothing sells like a secret ingredient.

    Quote The Vitality of Love (The Secret Ingredient)
    If you want to introduce anything of value in the world you must infuse it with the very essence of life – great love and vitality. The old adage “Do what you love and the money will follow.” is almost right. The true statement – albeit less sensational – is closer to “Love what you do and the money will follow.”
    Just be careful not to overdo it. As the song goes,

    I didn't know if it was day or night
    I started kissin' everything in sight
    But when I kissed a cop down on Thirty-Fourth and Vine
    He broke my little bottle of Love Potion Number Nine.


    http://mp3skull.com/mp3/love_potion_no_9_clovers.html

    Chapter after chapter proved to be filled with useful little homilies like this. This kind of self-improvement by example was obviously being pitched at such a high level that it makes unrealistic demands on the reader. "Know What Your Communication Channels Can Handle." If I knew that, I wouldn't be reading this book in the first place. First, you had to understand what he's getting at - okay for most of us literates, but not okay for others with poor reading skills or dyslexia, as I mentioned in an earlier post. So where is the real method in all this? What techniques can the trainee Wayseer learn to apply?

    Quote Some of you may wonder, “Where’s the method here?” What is the exact formula for living as a happy, healthy, successful Wayseer? The answer is, the absence of method is the best method. It is the relinquishment of all methods that leads a Wayseer into their brilliance. Wayseer Therapy is the urgent imperative, “Know thyself.” For only self-knowledge can liberate a Wayseer to discover their brilliance and their greatness. Any rules or methods – like we’ve mentioned earlier – will likely get in the way.

    Every day, let yourself become a little more free. Every day follow your deepest impulses a bit more heartily. Every day spend more time following your heart and less time bowing to the rules in your head. Every day become more relentlessly honest with yourself and others. Every day do something so spontaneous that it makes you feel truly alive. Your spontaneous impulses, your connection to Guidance, your unfettered trust in your own impeccable instincts; that shall be the “method” to your madness.
    If you read XZLTD1's Amazon Customer Review of LoPorto's earlier book The Da Vinci Method,, he (she? it?) says

    "The absence of method is the method", finally on page 246 Loporto reveals the truth. He wrote a book to make you feel good. It says absolutley [sic] nothing - but that is his method.

    So nothing has really changed, except Da Vinci Method is now Wayseers. To add insult to injury, all the links in The Wayseers that promise extra material lead back to the Da Vinci Method website - and at least a couple of them are 404 (dead).

    To be fair to him, he does include some tips to help you achieve a dream-like state for greater lucidity, and also some ways of passing the problem to be solved over to your subconscious. But I fail to see how having the DRD4 "Wayseer gene" or even a hyperactive/ADD Wayseer personality will make these tricks any more applicable.

    Strip away the gimmicks and the book becomes just like many other self-help books. By telling you to follow your star, follow your dream, you will experience a much needed, albeit temporary, elevation of your feeling of self-worth. Like the other books, it suffers as I mentioned from pitching to you at too high a level, making demands that are impossible to meet (for now). You will need to take LoPorto's suggestions, think about them a lot and keep returning to them to decide which ones apply best to you. Nothing wrong with this. While you're at it, buy or borrow similar books and compare them to put LoPorto in perspective. Certainly better to take up a hobby of following in great men's footsteps than sitting in a room staring at your navel. Above all, don't sit there expecting help to come to you. Wayseers don't behave like that.

    Last edited by str8thinker; 25th March 2011 at 12:38.
    Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING.
    - Crabwood crop circle, 2002.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto



    http://www.wayseermanifesto.com/


    Not a bad one to pass on to those waking up.........

    Seems to be movements starting all over right now,

    its encouraging stuff.

    No Question that this is our time.
    The greatest privilege of a human life is to become a
    midwife to the awakening of the Soul in another person.”
    ~ Plato

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    okies.... egg on face... this is already posted....
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/showthread.php?16618

    mods please merge or remove??

    thanks A
    The greatest privilege of a human life is to become a
    midwife to the awakening of the Soul in another person.”
    ~ Plato

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Well in true ADD /Aspergers form i posted a very long post in this thread and the whole thing disappeared..

    Pity as i had a lot to add here , i will see if i can re-create

    I'm sorry i'm not quoting anything in particular here, its more just a general comment on things that have been said on this thread.

    Being both ADD and Aspergers i can speak from experience.

    And truly , u have to have it to really understand it.

    It's very easy for people to judge us, and i don't buy into
    it much these days.

    If people want to understand and really learn how they can help rather than make things
    harder for those that have a hard time fitting in
    they will listen and be genuinely interested in our point of view on this subject.

    The best people working in this field have it and have found ways to live, and excell.

    It's funny that. When u do overcome the struggles, and do your own healing, all u want to do, is to help others do the same.

    It becomes a passion and can be for some all consuming as its a VERY tough road for those that haven't yet found the right support,

    By nature ADD/ADHD have ALOT of empathy , buckets of the stuff. We hate to see others suffer, especially if we think we have some way of helping.

    (This can also be our downfall as we can put others before our own needs, i have this problem myself, and continually have to find the balance between being in service to looking after my own needs.)

    And also, when u finally find a pathway where u can be productive, you tend to be very unstoppable.

    So please don't begrudge those that have overcome hardship and are now working
    full steam helping others do the same.

    They come from a place of empathy and knowing.

    Also bare in mind that behind someone successful with ADHD is a whole team of people acting as the prefrontal corftex.
    ( Read executive functioning, sorting organising PAPERWORK) .

    So when u see someone with ADD/ADHD with a heap of sites, including making money, and looking
    very well organised, there would be a whole machine working in the background.

    SO before u judge , understand what is at play here.

    Also note too that many of these creative ADHD types get ripped off and used by more money savvy business people, i have seen this a lot.

    Sure its all about the dopamine, as in we look for ways to stimulate our brain chemistry.

    Why you see a lot of fast paced entrepeneur types with ADHD,
    Richard Branson is one example.
    Don't hold that against us , its a good thing, this is a positive use of dopamine.

    We have lots of projects on the go at once.

    Our brains get bored fast, so one way to make sure u finish old projects is to start a new one, and use that new energy to help finish the last one.

    I always have 5 projects on the go at least, and i change tasks often.
    I need a lot of space, with areas for each projects.

    It takes along time to work out what works, believe me.
    But when u understand the mechanisms at play, you tend to look for all the healthy ways of dong this, rather than the destructive ways.

    ADD is a bit different, and mostly found in girls,
    its inattentive, daydreamy, distractible.
    they are stil being missed on the diagnosis front as they are less disruptive
    in the class room than the ADHD boys.
    which are over diagnosed.

    There are a few reasons for the increase in ADHD/ADD we are seeing.
    For one , we tend to seek each other out, as we know and understand each other.

    Two ADD/ADHD parents have an 85% chance of having ADD kids.
    Also taking medication on time, regularly is a challenge,
    so unplanned pregnancies are common.

    Also we can be impulsive so another reason why women with ADD/ADHD often have more children than neurotypical women.

    I know this post is a bit all over the place, as is my brain today, but i just wanted to make these few comments.
    Will add more later.

    Tony Attwood is excellent, and there are great non drug ways of getting more out of your brain.

    I was on ADD meds, that worked to a point, but i was loosing too much weight, and i was more anxious.

    These days i'm having biofeedback, everyweek. It's permanent and it works to down train or up train various parts of your brain.

    I had a QEEG test that detailed VERY specifically what my brain was doing and not doing.

    So i have a program written just for me, so work on the areas i need trained.

    I will leave with this list. and its a long one....

    Positive Characteristics of People with Attention Deficit Disorder.
    151 Positives.
    
Ability to find alternate paths to overcome obstacles
    Able to take on large situations
    Adaptive/collaborative
    Adventurous, courageous, lives outside of boundaries
    Always finding alternate routes to any given location.
    Always willing to help others
    Ambitious – you want to be everything when “you grow up”
    Artistic
    Attractive personality – magnetic due to high energy
    Being able to see the big picture
    Being able to see the patterns in the chaos.
    Being intuitive towards others’ difficulties
    Broad focus – can see more, notice things more
    Can create order from chaos
    Can do many projects at once
    Can make people feel they are heard
    Can see the big picture
    Can talk about several things at one time
    Can think on my feet
    Career variety
    Centre of attention
    Comfortable talking in front of groups
    Comfortable with change and chaos
    Compassion for others and for themselves
    Conceptualizes well
    Confidence
    Constantly evolving
    Courageous
    Creates connections easily
    Creative
    Creative writing
    Creative – musical, artistic, “dramatic”
    Good in a crisis
    Good at customer relations
    Dedicated
    Detail-oriented
    Determined to gain more control
    Eager to make friends
    Eager to try new things
    Empathetic, sensitive
    Energetic
    Entrepreneurial
    Excellent organizers using journals and reminders (notes etc.)
    Flexible – changes as the situation requires
    Fun guy to be around
    Goal-oriented
    Good at conceptualizing
    Good at motivating self and others
    Good at multitasking
    Good at problem solving
    Good at public speaking
    Good at understanding others/mind reading – empathetic
    Good conversationalist
    Good delegator and good at organizing others
    Good in emergency situations
    Good listener
    Good looking and aware of it
    Good people skills
    Good self esteem, energetic
    Great brain-stormer
    Great multitasker
    Great self-company
    Great sense of humour
    Great storyteller
    Great with kids (central figure around kids)
    Hands-on workers
    Hard worker
    Has friendly relations with their family
    Has the gift of gab
    Helpful
    Helps others who are also in trouble
    High energy – go, go, go
    Humour, very healthy, quick picking up ideas
    Hyper focus !!
    Hypersensitive – very empathetic and good at non-verbal communications
    Idea generator
    Imaginative
    Impulsive (in a good way) not afraid to act
    Initiators
    Intelligent
    Intuitive
    It’s ok to not finish everything
    Learning as much as I can to help children and others with adhd
    Less sleep is good (midnight to 6 am)
    Like to talk a lot
    Likes learning new things
    Look at multidimensional sides to a situation
    Lots of interests
    Loves to cook and be creative
    Magnetic
    Master idea generator
    Mentoring others/helpful
    Mentoring people with low self esteem
    Modesty
    Move on fast – never hold a grudge
    Multitasks well
    Never bored and rarely boring
    Never intimidated to try new things
    Non-linear, multi-dimensional/edge of chaos
    Not afraid to speak mind
    Not contained by boundaries.
    On stage and ready
    Optimistic
    Outgoing
    Passionate
    Persistent
    Philosophical
    Holistic thinking
    Playful
    Pragmatic
    Problem solver
    Profound
    Quick thinking
    Quick witted
    Relates to people easily
    Resistant
    Resourceful
    Saves money in the short term by forgetting to file tax returns
    See and remember details – recount them later
    Sees the big picture
    Socially adaptive and flexible.
    Spontaneous
    Stabilizer during difficult situations
    Stable
    Successful
    Takes initiative
    Tenacious
    Theoretical
    Think outside the box
    Thinks 2 meters ahead of the world
    Thinks big, dreams big
    Thorough
    Tolerant
    Unconventional
    Unlimited energy
    Unorthodox
    Versatile
    Very creative, able to generate a lot of ideas
    Very hard working to compensate – workaholic
    Very intuitive
    Very resourceful
    Very successful
    Visionary
    Visual learner
    Willing to explore
    Willing to take risks
    Willingness to help others
    Witty
    Won’t tolerate boredom
    Works well under pressure
    Worldly

    See why i often say this is OUR time??? Brains like ours do much better in times of chaos and change.

    I've seen ADD kids repeatedly create chaos just for the stimulation effect, of course they don't realise why they are behaving that way , they come home from school, meds have worn off, and the first thing they do is push everyone's buttons.

    You can see from that list too that the label ADD is totally wrong.
    We don't have a deficient, we actually have a surplus of attention.
    It's a filtering issue, we can't filter out the things we don't want to think about.

    Look up Tom Hartman,
    His ADD book was based around us being " hunters in a farmers world"
    there is alot of truth behind this. Scanning the environment, for food, or prey,
    being able to think with all senses... it was not only useful, but saved lives.

    I also find it interesting that so many ADD friends i have are also RH negative.




    Sorry this is so long...
    mods feel free to move if u wish.
    i will check back and reformat later.
    of to another task,

    blessings,

    Astrid
    Last edited by astrid; 27th March 2011 at 04:39.
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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote by nature ADD/ADHD have ALOT of empathy we hate to see others suffer, especially if we think we have some way of helping.
    Yes Astrid, I picked that up in teaching Autism spectrum disorders (don't like that term).

    Also thank you for this valuable post. I'm saving this information.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Hey Ice i have tons and tons of ADD/ADHD and Aspie resources,
    all i did was study this stuff full time for 3 years while i was undergoing diagnosis.
    So if i can be of any help in any way let me know.

    I think i will most likely train in biofeedback myself at some point.
    As its really a great tool to open up neuro-pathways.


    this is one article i always went back too when i was struggling , its invaluable

    http://www.addresources.org/?q=node/253



    cheers,

    A
    Last edited by astrid; 27th March 2011 at 04:05.
    The greatest privilege of a human life is to become a
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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Thanks Astrid. I think it's only natural that when someone suffers from a disability, whether it's ADHD, stuttering or whatever, and they meet someone else who also has it, the one that has managed to overcome some of it wishes to be able to help the other in any way possible.
    Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING.
    - Crabwood crop circle, 2002.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote Posted by str8thinker (here)
    Thanks Astrid. I think it's only natural that when someone suffers from a disability, whether it's ADHD, stuttering or whatever, and they meet someone else who also has it, the one that has managed to overcome some of it wishes to be able to help the other in any way possible.
    True, but i was more referring to one of the Characteristics of ADD/ADHD being a higher than normal level of empathy.
    I know a lot of sufferers and know this to be true across the board.

    For example, im forever running short of money to pay bills and buy food as i'm always giving money to others that i think are more in need.
    I have a girl friend ( ADHD) that is always coming up for the city to help me, but i often have to send her home as she has a family that all need her also.,,

    IT was more a comment on you suggesting that Garret LoPorto maybe taking advantage of ADD sufferers.
    If he has ADHD himself then very unlikely. Possible that he might be vulnerable to bad business deals, for sure....of course all speculation.
    But knowing what i know, which is quite alot, its more likely his personal intentions are positive and for good.

    Btw i did come across him in my research on ADD a few years back.

    and i listened to a couple of lectures of his and one phone interview where there was also more doctor types on the show. .

    He did come under fire with one of the doctors , that supported more medication type solutions ,

    but read between the lines, ADD meds = BIG BUCKS, of course they would try to cut him down.

    And yes, self taught, no training, which is a critisism we all get alot , but its also a judgement.

    I have 4 degrees all unfinished, which means i'm not qualified for a "real" job.

    So i do what i can to survive, lucky i fell into renovating houses.
    It's a perfect" job" for me, as there is always something new to learn,

    it means i always have somewhere to live, and can still be in service to others by offering a place to stay for those in need of a bed for the night.

    I contend that anyone with ADD/ADHD that has managed to overcome and has some degree of success in this ****ed up world,

    is way qualified for passing on their wisdom to others.
    Last edited by astrid; 27th March 2011 at 08:04.
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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote IT was more a comment on you suggesting that Garret LoPorto maybe taking advantage of ADD sufferers.
    This is a difficult one. I agree with you (and Bill Ryan) that his outward intentions seem to be honest and he genuinely appears to want to help those who also have ADHD or ADD. How are we going to judge this guy in 5 years' time?

    For a start, he can't be held responsible for not helping anyone who tries to follow his advice. "All care taken but no responsibility accepted." This applies to all similar books and self-help courses. The bottom line that interests me is, what percentage of people who try his offer will be able to look back and say "LoPorto helped me"? Only time will provide the answer.

    My own feelings are that only the most capable ten percent of those with these personality traits will be able to recognize an improvement in themselves by assiduously following his practices. They would probably have already sensed that these are the directions they should take, and along comes LoPorto to confirm that they are not alone and a series of little pushes from him in the right direction are all they need. They already have the momentum to make it. If they keep reciting his advice like a mantra this will reinforce good behaviour patterns and they will succeed.

    If LoPorto doesn't go off in all directions without completing anything, typical of the Da Vinci syndrome, and creates an online community of like-minded ADHD people who can bounce success ideas off each other, then the percentage of those helped should be much greater than my estimated ten percent - maybe thirty or forty percent helped in some way, no matter how slight.

    Of the remainder, I would guess about half will say LoPorto's advice made no difference to their lifestyle, and the other half may say his advice made unreasonable demands on them and was counterproductive. (This is similar to the well-known 30%-30%-30% rule - one-third improve, one-third notice no benefit and one-third find they are worse off.)

    One problem with his method is that not many therapists appear interested in pursuing it vigorously. As the last review in one of my earlier posts showed, the Da Vinci method and similar ones are regarded as ancillary treatments, certainly not the mainstay.
    Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING.
    - Crabwood crop circle, 2002.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote One problem with his method is that not many therapists appear interested in pursuing it vigorously. As the last review in one of my earlier posts showed, the Da Vinci method and similar ones are regarded as ancillary treatments, certainly not the mainstay.
    First thing, so few so called professionals will even acknowledge ADD exists.
    Secondly the "mainstay" treatment is still stimulant drugs, Ritalin, Dexamphetamine, Adderall... BIG BUCKS.
    Of course they would not want the non- drug treatments out there....

    Same reason why biofeedback is not widely supported and why its so hard to find a practicer

    The other thing is those with ADD are not stupid, they try alot of things, and use what works. There is alot of trial and error... ALOT.

    And as ADD is not a "one size fits all condition", we do tend to borrow ideas and tips form all over and build our own verison of what works. You wont get an ADD sufferer following anyones program to a "T" but instead they use ideas as an inspiration to re-build hope and confidence. We are mostly looking for bridging information, to get us from where we are now, to where we want to go. This can come from anywhere....



    The Divinci Method is but one idea to explore, i wouldn't worry yourself overly that we might get sold a "lie" we try lots of things, and we move on pretty quickly if something is not working...


    Peace,

    Astrid
    Last edited by astrid; 27th March 2011 at 10:48.
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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Quote First thing, so few so called professionals will even acknowledge ADD exists.
    Secondly the "mainstay" treatment is still stimulant drugs, Ritalin, Dexamphetamine, Adderall... BIG BUCKS.
    Of course they would not want the non- drug treatments out there....
    Quote The Divinci Method is but one idea to explore, i wouldn't worry yourself overly that we might get sold a "lie" we try lots of things, and we move on pretty quickly if something is not working...
    Astrid, I understand how you feel about not wanting to be prescribed drugs. But there are other considerations here besides big bucks.

    Put yourself in the therapist's chair. Let's say your therapist is honest and wants the best outcome for you, in accordance with how he has been trained and his expectations as to how you will progress under his treatment based on his experience. Let's assume he considers the income he makes to be far less important than your welfare. He expects Ritalin (or some other drug) will do some good here, maybe far from ideal but still better than not being on any medication at all. He is also aware that the dose will need to be adjusted to suit each patient and until the optimum state is reached, unpleasant side effects may occur. All this requires your informed consent.

    If your therapist is also a motivator he will be more inclined to introduce elements of the LoPorto method into the treatment, maybe combining them with drug therapy at first and later reducing the drugs as much as possible. He may combine this with dietary modifications to avoid foods causing hyperactivity, etc. All this is part of his plan, which should be documented for purposes of peer review.

    Above all, he should not want any element of his treatment plan to fail so badly that you turn on him, blame him and maybe even sue him. Equally well, he does not want his professional colleagues to take him to task for abandoning orthodox methods for relatively unproven ones (primum non nocere). This is why he may be reluctant to add such treatments as the Da Vinci Method to his tools, and he should be able to explain these concerns to you clearly.

    The other problem you face is that if, despite his initial optimism for a new treatment, he finds himself unsuccessful in applying it to you or others, he may discourage you from trying it or refer you to someone else who is not afraid to try it. So you may be put off trying the Da Vinci Method simply because the way to integrate it into your present therapy is not clear-cut to him.

    For this new tool to be proven to work, there needs to be a study with enough therapists and volunteers to make the results statistically significant. Bypassing this step easily spells disaster. It took a long time for acupuncture to become accepted into Western medicine, even though the Chinese had been performing it for at least a thousand years. Unless LoPorto puts his money where his mouth is and instigates this kind of serious trial, there is a risk that he will be judged simply as a well-meaning but misinformed amateur.

    Such a study is not difficult to organize, but obviously (to make it impartial) those entering it should be people who have never heard of LoPorto or Wayseers, i.e., their expectations have not been raised in advance. There are plenty of existing, well-tested personality inventory tests that can be used to measure successful outcome.

    All this is a far cry from the individual attempting to gain benefit from self-treatment, which is almost like self-medication (something a lot of PA members discuss here in one form or another). Unless you find a practitioner who is unafraid of helping you get the best out of such a new approach, rushing into it yourself means you're out there on your own.

    Do you get a certificate when you become an accredited Wayseer?
    Last edited by str8thinker; 27th March 2011 at 12:19.
    Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts & their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. BELIEVE. There is GOOD out there. We OPpose DECEPTION. COnduit CLOSING.
    - Crabwood crop circle, 2002.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Very cool, I like the message. It's the differences culturally and individually, that bring us together and make us strong.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    I must admit that when I watched this video on March 19, I was moved. But at the same time I also felt uncomfortable with a number of things. Now I haven’t spent an awful lot of time looking at the details like many of you here have done. I simply bumped some 10 days later onto this analysis of the Wayseer’s text by our (sometimes) friends of Sott and thought it was worth the sharing :

    http://www.sott.net/articles/show/22...g-Psychopathy-

    Like for instance this one :

    "Everything that the establishment has told you is wrong with you is actually what's right with you."
    Well now... The question is, which "establishment"? The psychopathic establishment that fosters war, impulsiveness, dog-eat-dog capitalism and social misery? Or the collective effort of people working together - all of us - who want to see each other healthy and happy? Social organization isn't bad. Community isn't bad. What's bad are the psychopaths who have corrupted our community, made it toxic, bending it towards war, greed and insanity and the psychological and emotional enslavement of everybody, children and adults alike.

    Or this one (and yes, I am myself not too fond at all of rules…)

    "You can't stand rules because in your heart you know there's a better way."
    Which rules? There are all kinds of rules for just about everything imaginable - including grammar. And there is a big difference between rules that are stupid, boring and pathological - and those rules that are the only thing standing between pathological individuals and their urges to rape, rob, pillage, destroy, hurt, maim, kill, etc., etc., etc. Which rules are which? You need your prefrontal cortex to tell the difference. Psychopaths are well-known to be 'rule-breakers', but the rules they break are the ones that make human beings different from predatory animals.

    While I haven’t had the time to look into the details of this rather longish analysis (which may be a little farfetched), it seems to me it deserves some attention. Please look at the link for details.

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    Default Re: Could this be you? Garret LoPorto and the Wayseer Manifesto

    Reading all this, I feel a lot of respect for all of you about knowledge accumulated about human behaviour you all exposed here. Really admirable.

    And I will try to tell you what has Manifesto moved inside of me.

    I just don't approve any authority which impose ANY rule over any individual. This is the conclusion of my over 50 years of participation in this society now.
    By my opinion the society has to be rebuild from scratch. And this is what the manifesto is saying to me. The level of human awareness is rising from moment to moment, there are more and more people aware of an inside morality, inner ethics, universal justice we all know and the majority don't practice. But in the same time there are more and more people starting to incorporate these universal laws (the only valuable ones) to their behaviour.

    When I was studying law one of my professor said a few undeniable truths:
    1. Every written law is there just to serve to the interests of a ruling class. If some law also benefits a common citizen it's called collateral damage.
    2. Every prohibition is a clear sign of governmental incompetence to find a positive solution for a problem.

    And who is making laws. Well, they are written by lawyers. OK, anybody knows a lawyer which is not a liar? I don't. Maybe you, but investigating a little, there will be very little place to find one. Ok, and the written law is than presented to the Parliament for its approval. And what is Parliament. As you can find for yourself the origin of the word itself is self-explanatory. Parlia=talk and mient=lie.
    So we are here to obey laws written by crooks and approved by professional liars. Is here something wrong or what. Oh, and do anyone knows some honest Politian?

    it's my humorous way to explain the nonsense of the today's society. The society we know as such is dying, falling apart, so if we want something better we just cannot build on the existent basis. we have to build a parallel way for a better, healthier society.

    This is more or less my synchronicity with manifesto. It's nothing new, but filled with positive intention.

    And as my Avatar said: PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF THEIR GOVERNMENTS. GOVERNMENTS SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THEIR PEOPLE.

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