Reincarnation - alternative views

[dan i el]

i do hope yesterday is not the same as tomorrow but nevertheless what it could mean, everyone is here now, apart from the dead...unless one thinks they are the dead, of course. and essentially that would be reincarnation?

I dont know whether to believe the lama in dharamsala or the ouija board blather from years ago. tbh.

this money wormhole to nowhere avatar is crappy. I am going to try and find something really uplifting for that optic.. what else is there?

But then, the green revolution and oil doubled the global population in a few decades and now those self same plantation "owners" declare we bred too much. What a to do! Like a sacrifice. We will all ascend out of the problem, no worries. peace.

Having studied the figures as best possible I dont even think we are too many yet for Gaiav-- i think it is a need a weird golf course ruse! equality lowers births rates to a sustainable level, surely.

[3optic]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Selene (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo
.... So, how do we know we are not doing the exact same thing humans have been doing since the beginning -- making things up?

Cico, see my comments above: it’s the emotional recognition.

Emotional "recognition" is always the foundation for the persistence of made-up things (like the flat-earth belief, for example), and that's the flaw. Turning it into the justification for making things up is even more flawed.

I'm new to the material. i've actually started reading one of the books Bill posted earlier in this thread. Some of the recollections in past life regressions can actually be corroborated according to many of the shrinks involved with these studies. That may be the thing that elevates it above speculative fantasy. Just started reading. Will be back with more.

[RedeZra]

there is an etheric light body within the physical body


this etheric body does not die of old age but lives on and so it is more real than the physical body

it is this light body that inhabits and operates the physical body and senses the world around it and so engage the physical body into action

it is possible to live an exclusive etheric life and leave the physical body at will



the universe is not made by humans but Infinite Creative Intelligence

the universe is not governed by humans but Infinite Creative Intelligence


What happens after death is not uniform but since the etheric body survives death it is natural to assume that time be spent in an etheric place more suited to the state of mind

When to come back into physicality is usually up to Infinite Creative Intelligence in co-operation with you


Do not think that you rule this universe ; )

[dan i el]

Posted by 3optic (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Selene (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo
.... So, how do we know we are not doing the exact same thing humans have been doing since the beginning -- making things up?

Cico, see my comments above: it’s the emotional recognition.

Emotional "recognition" is always the foundation for the persistence of made-up things (like the flat-earth belief, for example), and that's the flaw. Turning it into the justification for making things up is even more flawed.

I'm new to the material. i've actually started reading one of the books Bill posted earlier in this thread. Some of the recollections in past life regressions can actually be corroborated according to many of the shrinks involved with these studies. That may be the thing that elevates it above speculative fantasy. Just started reading. Will be back with more.

I find the hypogogic imaging exercises as described from the fourth way by Oupensky quite easy to do and mysterious. A good way to lucid dreams and beyond too for quite a number aoparently.
The idea that these are simulcra from a greater cosmic cosmopolitan experience is new to me though. I definitely entertain this thought.
Chicodoodoo, would you, if you have not, consider trying these exercises over,say, 10 days or so, global alpha particle radiation levels notwithstanding?
Sorry if I constructed my sentence baldly, i am not judged as neurotypical. I think it might be even interesting as proposals go, considering the impetus of the thread and as it came into being. if it is a bad idea everyone, just ignore it, i never said i could post on a computer like a natural. in terms of reincarnation it would be great if such voices as pertaining to be very briefly mentioned experiences in this thread were full of it and i wasnt here before but even if it were so, i blew it anyway by procreating so now is their inevitable karma? Does Ascension mean death in 4D terms?

All those old strange places in seemingly "real time" that pop into the head sometimes - i just think "so what" tbh, all I can make of it right now is that it is an entertaining diversion..nice in terms of mystery but what be practicably made from such? As such, personally speaking, I say "sowhat" to alleged images/"experiences" from other lives.

[Pilgrim]

selene:

1. The critical difference about a true reincarnational memory is the emotional charge that it carries. It is meaningful to you in an emotional way that can only involve your personal experience of the time or place. The memory can be fond, or fearful, repulsive or joyous. But it has a wholeness; it is unmistakably yours. A true reincarnational memory has an unshakeable emotional ‘ownership’ on your part.

2. And that is one of the reasons I always caution others about accepting at face value what anyone else – no matter how highly you may regard them or how well meaning they may be – might tell you about “your previous lives”. If their comments don’t resonate deeply with you at some “emotional recognition” level, let them pass. Trust yourself first. Trust your own inner recognition.

1.Based on my personal experience I understand this point in the same way. When I went through chain of several lives that were connected to one event in my current life. I tried to manipulate what I had seen first because I had been quite sceptical before not about the subject of reincarnation itself. I actually believed it was possible though I kept my stand of open sceptic, reading some books, articles and talking to people about reincanation subject. Anyway, I wanted to know If it is realy "my experience" I wanted to be sure of that. I wondered if I tapped into some one else´s story or if I was manipulated, or having known about Acashic record if there was an error and I culd see life of some one else. Whenever, I started to go through the stories, which I watched, as much as I tried to change a set up or story line, whenever I wanted to manipulate details, I went always to the same timeline of those stories, the same details, the same feelings, the same emotions which I knew they were unmistakably mine, and even more, they had clearly logical, reasonable and sense making connection to my present personality, who I am now, and troubes which I encountered that time, as same as, all other involved players of the stories in the past and in the current timeline. I believe that emotional connection to the perceived past story might be an evidance the story is actually yours not from some cosmic info databank into which you tapped rendomly.

2. Agree on that one as well, the story resonates with something what we feel inside now. If the explanation or narrative does not resonate with us I woudl consider it as manipulation or fake.

Thank you for your points Selene P.

[king anthony]

Posted by Aldous (here)
Who are you to say whats speculation or distraction...

The genetic/ bloodline memory thing is interesting but it doesn't fit IMHO.

...King Anthony ever had any of these memories or are you just making assumptions about what other people are experiencing? We experience these things and we know what they are... we aren't stupid and you aren't some Messiah of truth and knowledge switching on the light in our dark rooms.

KA I read your explanation of the 'sharing memories with others' theorem, thankyou for trying to explain but it doesn't logically fit for me (especially when I way in my own experiences).

Also KA you started a thread stating your soul was 3000. How is this possible? If your in your 40's now and have had only one life where have you spent the rest of your time?

I say, is it one's place to question who others are, when one cannot answer that for themselves!? Many have the luxury of faith, belief and opinion and the few do not - for the burden of the few cannot be other, as the limitations of some are impose.

I say, what I speak is with conviction and to understand this is to know me; that which I cannot speak of with conviction, I remain silent on. I ask, for no one to believe my words but rather seek truths for themselves, and encourage to seek that of 'original knowledge'.

I make no claim to be more then who or what I am. Has it not been, that even those who have claim of greatness and who have done 'divine feats' have been rejected!? I make no claim to such, as I have not hidden behind avatars or false names - for I have even shared all that I was and am with those who wish to know.

Is it not that those who seek to be more then what they are, who are heard the most!? Is it not found within a faith, belief or opinion that gives 'god', 'purpose' or 'more then what is' within themselves or elsewhere!?

That which one seeks binds them and that which one obtains imprisons them. I say, if you have found that which gives you comfort, then why not be content with it!? Is there not more below the surface, if one struggles to maintain its warmth!?

The 'question' I posed, of three-thousand years, was not my statement, rather the statement of others; for I speak with conviction that I know different. Understanding the depth of the 'question' cannot be given, as understanding will be reflected by the 'ears' they fall on.

I say, if what you keep dearest to yourself is 'whole', then be on your way with that and I wish you well - for I have not spoken ill towards anyone; yet, has 'anyone' given the same courtesy in return!?

Anthony

[Selene]

Well said, KA.

You speak with great integrity - and have every bit as much right to your personal philosphy as anyone here. May your path be a source of joy and enlightenment for you, my friend.

All best wishes,

Selene

[king anthony]

Posted by Selene (here)
...personal philosphy as anyone here.

I say, our private discussion resolved - your true intent now reveals.

[Selene]

Posted by Chicodoodoo (here)

Posted by Selene (here)

Posted by Chicodoodoo
.... So, how do we know we are not doing the exact same thing humans have been doing since the beginning -- making things up?

Cico, see my comments above: it’s the emotional recognition.

Emotional "recognition" is always the foundation for the persistence of made-up things (like the flat-earth belief, for example), and that's the flaw. Turning it into the justification for making things up is even more flawed.

Hi, Chico –

The ‘emotional recognition’ I’m referring to is much stronger than the (Malcolm Gladwell-type) ‘blink’ of recognition of something that comes from long experience with a topic and then seeing something else and saying: yeah, I get it.

True reincarnational emotional recognition can be so powerful that it will literally double you over like a punch to the gut. It can leave you gasping for breath, in tears of sorrow or joy, or simply stunned beyond words or expression. It’s real. It’s not merely something you read about and intellectually apprehend or agree with.

I hope this helps to clarify my point. It’s like falling in love. If it’s never happened to you, you might reasonably ask: What’s love got to do with anything?

Until, one fine day, s/he walks into the room and .....!

Cheers,

Selene

[Icecold]

True reincarnational emotional recognition can be so powerful that it will literally double you over like a punch to the gut. It can leave you gasping for breath, in tears of sorrow or joy, or simply stunned beyond words or expression. It’s real. It’s not merely something you read about and intellectually apprehend or agree with.

Well put Selene. You are a master of explaining the mystical experience.

[Sierra]

I have no proof for reincarnation, but I CHOOSE to believe in reincarnation because otherwise I'll turn into a little kid and start shrieking, "THATS NOT FAIR!!!", when I see babies starving to death en mass, and this is their entire "growth and evolution" experience? How logical is that.

So while reincarnation may not be native to my culture, and reincarnation may not hit the nail on the head as currently defined, it sure makes more sense to me than some "Christian" beliefs about life after death, i.e. babies burn in hell if they are not baptized before death. Go **** yourself Monsignor for that disgusting control mechanism.

I'm hung up on fairness.

When I was three years old I had a dream. I couldn't talk about it to anyone because I was deaf and had no language yet. It was so simple, but it punched me in the gut and I woke up weeping with loss and grief.

It was me as a three year old in a little red coat, in the middle of an orchard in springtime, walking up a gently climbing dirt road to a tiny wooden hovel with faded red paint that I could see in the distance. I was vibrating with joy and delight. Someone I adored with all my three year old heart was behind that door. Then I woke up and knew I loved no one on earth the way I loved that person behind the door.

I was one depressed child for awhile after that.

I read somewhere that you can choose to consciously remember previous lives in a coming incarnation. You just have to build it into your contract.

[Ahkenaten]

All I can say is if reincarnation exists I hope the next life is not a simulacrum of this life........sometimes my dreams are like a scene out of the movie Brazil, and if THAT is what the next life will be like, well........................I'd just as soon pass.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by dan i el (here)
Chicodoodoo, would you, if you have not, consider trying these exercises over,say, 10 days or so, global alpha particle radiation levels notwithstanding?

I don't think I'm familiar with this concept or these exercises, so I'm speaking from ignorance, but I don't see why I wouldn't be willing to try (assuming I can find the time -- maybe cut down my Avalon time?). I would need more information to decide.

[Chicodoodoo]

Posted by Selene (here)
True reincarnational emotional recognition can be so powerful that it will literally double you over like a punch to the gut. It can leave you gasping for breath, in tears of sorrow or joy, or simply stunned beyond words or expression. It’s real. It’s not merely something you read about and intellectually apprehend or agree with.

I hope this helps to clarify my point. It’s like falling in love. If it’s never happened to you, you might reasonably ask: What’s love got to do with anything?

Until, one fine day, s/he walks into the room and .....!

Good analogy, one that I will also use.

The emotional response is real. It is as powerful as you say. But the underlying explanations that you attach to that emotion may not be real. And even worse, you may not realize it until long after the emotional spell has worn off.

It’s like falling in love. That person walks into the room and bam, you're smitten! Thirty years later, after the divorce, after years of agonizing self-analysis, you finally understand that the emotions were real and powerful on both sides, but the internal explanations you and your partner assigned to those emotions at the time were significantly different and significantly wrong.

Humans can be wrong even when their gut tells them they are not.

[Gone001]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
Who are you to say whats speculation or distraction...

The genetic/ bloodline memory thing is interesting but it doesn't fit IMHO.

...King Anthony ever had any of these memories or are you just making assumptions about what other people are experiencing? We experience these things and we know what they are... we aren't stupid and you aren't some Messiah of truth and knowledge switching on the light in our dark rooms.

KA I read your explanation of the 'sharing memories with others' theorem, thankyou for trying to explain but it doesn't logically fit for me (especially when I way in my own experiences).

Also KA you started a thread stating your soul was 3000. How is this possible? If your in your 40's now and have had only one life where have you spent the rest of your time?

I say, is it one's place to question who others are, when one cannot answer that for themselves!? Many have the luxury of faith, belief and opinion and the few do not - for the burden of the few cannot be other, as the limitations of some are impose.

I say, what I speak is with conviction and to understand this is to know me; that which I cannot speak of with conviction, I remain silent on. I ask, for no one to believe my words but rather seek truths for themselves, and encourage to seek that of 'original knowledge'.

I make no claim to be more then who or what I am. Has it not been, that even those who have claim of greatness and who have done 'divine feats' have been rejected!? I make no claim to such, as I have not hidden behind avatars or false names - for I have even shared all that I was and am with those who wish to know.

Is it not that those who seek to be more then what they are, who are heard the most!? Is it not found within a faith, belief or opinion that gives 'god', 'purpose' or 'more then what is' within themselves or elsewhere!?

That which one seeks binds them and that which one obtains imprisons them. I say, if you have found that which gives you comfort, then why not be content with it!? Is there not more below the surface, if one struggles to maintain its warmth!?

The 'question' I posed, of three-thousand years, was not my statement, rather the statement of others; for I speak with conviction that I know different. Understanding the depth of the 'question' cannot be given, as understanding will be reflected by the 'ears' they fall on.

I say, if what you keep dearest to yourself is 'whole', then be on your way with that and I wish you well - for I have not spoken ill towards anyone; yet, has 'anyone' given the same courtesy in return!?

Anthony

What do you mean 'when one cannot answer for themselves', did you even read my post? I have my answers my friend trust me. When you speak to people it's as if your subtly saying "It's alright if you think that, maybe someday you'll get to my level of understanding". Others have had incredible experiences too, which I'm sure you at least partially realize. I've herd you speak of deception before but have you ever stopped to think maybe at some point you yourself have been deceived? Anyway this is the last I have to say on the subject. Take care.

[king anthony]

Posted by Aldous (here)
...I've herd you speak of deception before but have you ever stopped to think maybe at some point you yourself have been deceived? Anyway this is the last I have to say on the subject

I say, what deception have I spoke, when I say for others to seek truths; and give aid by saying to learn what the ancient knew? I have not stated or implied for anyone to believe anything I say, rather give point and urge others to seek clarification.

I do not speak with emotion or benefit to myself; nor have I had need to take an offensive. Was I not invited by 'quote' to engage; did I step into another's circle or was it the opposite!?

[Gone001]

Delete<----------

[Gone001]

[QUOTE=Aldous;184579]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
...I've herd you speak of deception before but have you ever stopped to think maybe at some point you yourself have been deceived? Anyway this is the last I have to say on the subject

I say, what deception have I spoke, when I say for others to seek truths; and give aid by saying to learn what the ancient knew? I have not stated or implied for anyone to believe anything I say, rather give point and urge others to seek clarification.

I do not speak with emotion or benefit to myself; nor have I had need to take an offensive. Was I not invited by 'quote' to engage; did I step into another's circle or was it the opposite!?

The deception remark was in a pm. In short you said you believed reincarnation was a deception. That's what I was referring too. When you say things about getting others to seek the truth it makes it seem (to me anyway) like your saying their not already there and you are. I've said this too you before and I'll say it one more time; if you think you have all the answers you'll never learn anything new. Good day KA!

[king anthony]

Posted by Aldous (here)
The deception remark was in a pm. In short you said you believed reincarnation was a deception. That's what I was referring too.

I say, matters discussed in PMs are to remain in PMs; to refer to a part of thought, from elsewhere, is not to give full thought of the words said. Again I say, 'Was I not invited by 'quote' to engage'!?

If I may suggest, if you have further personal issues, please keep them to PMs and not in the thread; or be silent on the matter in full.

[Gone001]

Posted by king anthony (here)

Posted by Aldous (here)
The deception remark was in a pm. In short you said you believed reincarnation was a deception. That's what I was referring too.

I say, matters discussed in PMs are to remain in PMs; to refer to a part of thought, from elsewhere, is not to give full thought of the words said. Again I say, 'Was I not invited by 'quote' to engage'!?

If I may suggest, if you have further personal issues, please keep them to PMs and not in the thread; or be silent on the matter in full.

Umm you said where did I refer to deception no need to be dramatic. You asked I answered. In an attempt to relate "Was I not asked to provide an answer when you said 'what deception have I spoke'"? I referred to one line of a PM there was nothing personal shared I was merely providing you with an answer. I gave full thought to my response, maybe you didn't when you stated you had never said anything like that. By the way I never said anything about you engaging so I'm not sure why you keep saying that...