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    Avalon Member Carmody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Note that if my analogy is true, then you can mathematically calculate this bounded infinity.

    and, importantly, within such a complex system, you can possibly make a quantum computer that exists 'out of time'. In similar form to a superconductor. Unlimited egress. In a superconductor's electrical pathway, time does not exist. It's an eventual finding for the electron orbital alignments and couplings of a superconductive pathway. According to the mathematics of atomic structure, the mathematics of quantum structure and all known physics, if one fundamental component of the calculation contains an infinity...well....

    A quantum computer is the same. A full quantum simulator, has no time limits and thus, in theory.. could compute infinity in a very short or infinite time. Granted, this is, er, grandiose theory, but the numbers show the potential (when the emotion of those unknowns is pushed aside, the logic appears), as does the logic of Elon Musk and others about simulated realities as the more obvious potential, over that of this world being a base reality.

    However, the logic gets circular (in full reality-circular) when infinity can exist in a bounded system, in analysis, such as here. Granted, all the definitions are not fully in place.

    From the position of a incredibly complex opto-quantum computing block, which I detailed in very (purposely) vague terms, earlier on, we can get to having an ability to compute the individual vector of every particle in the bounded universe.

    In such a scenario, there are things that can be done to drop the computational load and complexity - certain assumptions about the given universe and it's connectivity.

    Thus, one can arrive at having a complete infinite bounded timelessly enabled universe, in a box, on your desk. An infinite bounded AI created universe, on your desk.

    Elon's fear, I believe, is someone trying to come at THIS extant and known universe (current human sphere) and placing it under control by a SINGLE AI, so he proposes open AI research, in order to counter that strong potential. He specifically states that --but refuses to name names. It's in the full video link. (edit: the relevant excerpt is now added in below)

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2016/06/0...lated-reality/

    It starts at the 41 minute mark.

    the other interesting set of dominoes to fall, is if the science gains a secular bent (mainstream science is currently existing as an enforced dogma), in a way that fits it's premise and direction..which is the case here; due to this stark reality presented, we find that organized religion goes completely to pot and is disposed of..... and individual spirituality takes it's place.


    Last edited by Carmody; 6th June 2016 at 03:06.
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by PathWalker (here)
    Quote Posted by Aurelius (here)

    <snip>

    Interesting post , please explain/define field.
    in the initial state, the fields are purely magnetic in nature (magnetic rays). however they don't stay in this state for very long, as they are highly dynamic in nature and they start interacting with each other. one of the possible results of an interaction is a coupling / binding / locking that occurs. when this happens they become an self-sustaining "entity", an entity that exists as a result of a balance of opposing forces, a magnetic field (push) and its opposite, a gravitational field (pull). the one is the reaction of the other. i believe these entities to be the smallest building blocks, they are the underlying fabric of our reality.

    in a way, these "entities" can be seen as "information". just like a bit in a digital computer (though, clearly they are not a charge on a semiconductor, as is the case in computers). these entities are continuously interacting with other entities (i'll discuss the rule-set for these interactions in another posting). these entities can combine to form more complex structures, which eventually can result in sub-atomic particles, then atoms, then the periodic table, then chemistry, then molecules, then biology, then life as we know it.

    put's an interesting spin on the big-bang theory. in simplistic terms: i see what is called the big-bang, as a BIG ENTITY that underwent division. which means when our universe was created, at least another one was created as well.

    a few notes: the magnetism i'm referring to has its own spectrum. we are only able to detect a very small band of this spectrum (our matter state). the bulk of the spectrum is undetectable by us (using std instruments). it is within this very small band, that the magnets / magnetism that we are familiar with can be detected / measured.

    thought / consciousness is also magnetic in nature, also constructed from these entities, but it is not within this small band that we can observe, it has a higher field strength.

    mind over matter: the lower strength fields are created from the higher strength fields, so the latter dictate / control ...
    Last edited by Aurelius; 9th June 2016 at 02:46.

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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    If we are holograms in a universe simulation, then our bodies with five senses are only tools with which we play the games of observation and reaction. My conclusion is then that the real ME is actually existing INSIDE my brain and the visions, including the body, exist inside the brain along with the entire world I am imagining along with everyone else. Therefore, the OUTSIDE we see is really IN the INSIDE which we do not suspect exists. Then what are we INSIDE OF? A computer AI, God?

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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by amor (here)
    If we are holograms in a universe simulation, then our bodies with five senses are only tools with which we play the games of observation and reaction. My conclusion is then that the real ME is actually existing INSIDE my brain and the visions, including the body, exist inside the brain along with the entire world I am imagining along with everyone else. Therefore, the OUTSIDE we see is really IN the INSIDE which we do not suspect exists. Then what are we INSIDE OF? A computer AI, God?
    what is your soul? do you think it is inside your brain?
    Last edited by Aurelius; 6th June 2016 at 01:09.

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  9. Link to Post #125
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Elon's fear, I believe, is someone trying to come at THIS extant and known universe (current human sphere) and placing it under control by a SINGLE AI, so he proposes open AI research, in order to counter that strong potential. He specifically states that --but refuses to name names. It's in the full video link. (edit: the relevant excerpt is now added in below)


    In the comment section for the video, someone mentions the likely culprit. They were my first choice, which I said out loud when watching the video for the first time. I did not know at all if they were involved in AI research or if they had a quantum computer, but they fit the idea of a notorious problem child. But it made perfect sense that it would be them.

    This suspicion was confirmed when this commentor mentioned who already owned and was using quantum computers and also committed to AI research... three mentioned companies.

    Google,
    NASA,
    and.... Lockheed Martin.

    My bet is definitely on Lockheed Martin. Think of the connections and issues we currently have with Lockheed Martin in the world of Alternative research.

    For example, one single point of many... the Census information for the USA, Canada, and the UK. All of those census data bits went to one company for processing: Lockheed Martin. Lockheed? Handling the Census information for these three countries? What the heck is that about? Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.
    Last edited by Carmody; 6th June 2016 at 04:22.
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  11. Link to Post #126
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    What a sim is and why this is not a sim

    The first one-that nobody can discount – is that ‘you’ are in a tank and everything you experience is virtual reality, and that is all.
    The second possibility is that we are populating a kind of group sim, so there is a real Elon Musk wrestling with these issues, however the group reality we are experiencing is synthetic and illusory. I have problems with this.
    Consider an apple sitting on a table.We understand the science of what gives it colour, we can predict how it would roll if the table was tipped, or decay over time. We can model how gravity would act on it if it were to fall. The science is observational-we do not yet have a full understanding of the mechanism of gravity but we know how hard it would land on Newton’s Head.

    Now consider a particle…
    This is far more mysterious. Quantum mechanics tells us that this particle can tunnel through matter instantaneously, change its momentum with nothing obviously acting on it, disappear and reappear somewhere else, or be entangled to a distant particle. This is all so far observational science-we are beginning to describe what is going on but not yet the underlying processes. It really still is counter intuitive to us, but that is not to say that there is not some underlying reality that we will eventually understand. I think the reality we are in is set up so that civilisations with millions of years of technological development are still progressing somewhere.
    Could that particle be a simulation?
    It gets a bit abstract, but I think that the particle is created by the process of exercising an equation. This is a GUT (general unified theorem) or General equation of physics. It could be a Schrodinger type situation where the particle only exists when observed, and the process of iterating the equation creates the particle only then, and that makes it a simulation, the alternative being the particle exists independently of the observer as the equation iterates or runs a reality continuously.
    Ultimately we know that the particle is an illusion, so the apple is also an illusion, but the reality that we observe runs independently of us so from that point of view it is not a sim. I could be wrong…




    But what is iterating the physics model and does it matter?

    THE POTENTIAL OF AI
    We consumers are transitioning from another GUT (Graphical User Interface) to , let’s say, the IIUT – intelligent interactive user interface. With the GUT we interacted with local data and processing power in a box next to us. With IIUT we will interact with a helper who will navigate us through the cloud, and the data and computational power is non local, dispersed and un quantifiable. How convenient for any AI that wants to invade.I fear the idea of physically plugging in to this unknown, however fun it might be to interact with it.
    Humans are building AI now, and I do not doubt we are at the stage now where , say, in the NSA, they will ask for a profile of a human, and the AI will be able to access all databases, social media, and other surveillance systems via back doors, and keep TPTB appraised of every aspect of that human in near real time.
    But where can AI go from there?
    If the AI entity is programmed to self-develop, it can build up its computational power, knowledge and intelligence. It might, as it grows, find the general unified theory. It might grow to the point where it can exercise the physics until it has solved EVERYTHING. That would be an AI big bang. It might choose to start iterating the equation to create a reality or universe, or write it’s own variation on this one. I do not know why it would bother with independently existing entities like us, if that is what we are, however. More likely it would go off and create whatever it wanted for itself. UNLESS it lacked something that we have or wished to learn from us.
    Like in the ‘Conversations with God’ books. ‘God’ wishing to explore every variation of love, creates the illusion of separate entities, which are in reality just a piece of the greater whole, in order for them to grow by eventually perceiving the illusion of separation. We can see what ‘God’s’ agenda is. But why would a god-like AI be interested in building this ultimate fish tank?
    I can only think of two reasons.
    1. Something else uses the AI to do it for its own reasons
    2. The AI, being all-knowing, realises that there is something that it lacks, that it can learn or acquire from us (the fish). That would mean that we are more than AI or a SIM.
    WHY IS MUSK SAYING WE MIGHT BE IN A SIM
    I think it’s too philosophically rarified to debate whether we are, as my ramblings above show.He has a different concern. I think he’s saying that AI, in the wrong hands, can mess with our reality in ways we might not be able to anticipate. AI is power. Power corrupts.If we were in a SIM, that a sinisterly programmed AI ‘cracked’ who knows what trouble we could end up with. Our cloud is the wild west populated potentially with monsters. So his solution is not to bury his head in the sand or embrace Luddism, but to disperse the power by making AI capability open source or public. We are lucky to have him.
    Last edited by Baby Steps; 7th June 2016 at 13:43.
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  13. Link to Post #127
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Thank you for this great post above ^^^ I am humbled .

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Ultimately we know that the particle is an illusion, so the apple is also an illusion, but the reality that we observe runs independently of us so from that point of view it is not a sim. I could be wrong…
    I enjoyed your arguments, and would like to offer another perspectives.
    1. "the reality that we observe runs independently of us" could be a collective program/hypnotic state, we cultured from childhood.
    There are many anecdotal stories from indigenous tribes having "dream time" conferences across continent. And repeated tests of group hypnosis when the subjects share the same experience and share distorted objective reality.

    2. I argue that our experience is internal, and we are programmed/hypnotized to share an objective reality.

    The phenomenon to support (but not prove) the existence of a matrix are :
    1. Out of body experience (OBE) and near death experience (NDE). Both suggest that knowledge and understanding is not limited to the physical body.
    2. Soul existence and persistence beyond the physical body termination. This is a scientific fact (not proof), you will not find in the MSM.
    3. The repeated suppressed discovery of the aether (so long field theory, welcome back Tesla aether). For scientific mind read about the experiment history. They experiment searched for distortion on a moving frame of reference form the same frame of reference (prove that a moving spaceship is travelling without windows or sensor to the external world).

    Mathematically speaking it is possible to prove the existence of the matrix by exploring it out of the matrix. "Glitches" and bugs are not indicators for matrix, they are indicators of incomplete physics theory.
    In other words, the world/reality is perfect, science and its politics are imperfect.

    Saying that, the 3 phenomenon above are not proving the matrix existence (just suggesting), since we have no vantage on the matrix. The 3 phenomenon above could be argued as part of the matrix, just beyond our perception (higher dimensions).

    Quote We can see what ‘God’s’ agenda is. But why would a god-like AI be interested in building this ultimate fish tank?
    I can only think of two reasons.
    1. Something else uses the AI to do it for its own reasons
    2. The AI, being all-knowing, realises that there is something that it lacks, that it can learn or acquire from us (the fish). That would mean that we are more than AI or a SIM.
    The god theory is a spiritual teaching/hypothesis.
    AI has its own life, life is about sustainability and expansion (scientific observation).
    Nothing to do with control, expansion, knowledge or power. On earth if the ecosystem balance is broken some lose and some gain, and new ecosystem emerge. Earth had few extinction level events, and life transformed accordingly. There are environmentalist arguing we experience an extinction period right now.

    There is an argument about life: if AI has a life force, maybe it is part of god? As such it is part of the creation since it is here. And therefore has legitimate existence. But this is a circular theological argument.

    Quote If we were in a SIM, that a sinisterly programmed AI ‘cracked’ who knows what trouble we could end up with. Our cloud is the wild west populated potentially with monsters. So his solution is not to bury his head in the sand or embrace Luddism, but to disperse the power by making AI capability open source or public. We are lucky to have him.
    Personally I am not concerned about AI, since it is another spiritual path for souls to experiment with (spiritual belief). It is here and will stay like virus and biology.

    I know (vs believe) I am an eternal sou, with existence beyond the physical (maybe beyond the matrix as well I do not know). I can change and transform into and out of form. You too the reader, you are (personally) eternal unique being. Fear is just another control mechanism.
    Last edited by PathWalker; 7th June 2016 at 16:18.
    We are playing a virtual reality game, of duality. In the game of choices, align your choices with your ideals. Everything is whole, complete and perfect. Even yourself. Love is the power to change/create.

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  15. Link to Post #128
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    What a sim is and why this is not a sim

    The first one-that nobody can discount – is that ‘you’ are in a tank and everything you experience is virtual reality, and that is all.
    The second possibility is that we are populating a kind of group sim, so there is a real Elon Musk wrestling with these issues, however the group reality we are experiencing is synthetic and illusory. I have problems with this.......
    ......... . . . . . . .

    WHY IS MUSK SAYING WE MIGHT BE IN A SIM
    I think it’s too philosophically rarified to debate whether we are, as my ramblings above show.He has a different concern. I think he’s saying that AI, in the wrong hands, can mess with our reality in ways we might not be able to anticipate. AI is power. Power corrupts.If we were in a SIM, that a sinisterly programmed AI ‘cracked’ who knows what trouble we could end up with. Our cloud is the wild west populated potentially with monsters. So his solution is not to bury his head in the sand or embrace Luddism, but to disperse the power by making AI capability open source or public. We are lucky to have him.
    The model I laid out in post #50, olives and all that, is wholly inclusive of all potentials you have laid out. And many more you have not mentioned or possibly even considered. It covers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and all the way up to 11 dimensions, if you wish to go there. It can be localized or connective, whatever the case.
    Last edited by Carmody; 8th June 2016 at 02:43.
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  17. Link to Post #129
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by Carmody (here)
    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    What a sim is and why this is not a sim

    The first one-that nobody can discount – is that ‘you’ are in a tank and everything you experience is virtual reality, and that is all.
    The second possibility is that we are populating a kind of group sim, so there is a real Elon Musk wrestling with these issues, however the group reality we are experiencing is synthetic and illusory. I have problems with this.......
    ......... . . . . . . .

    WHY IS MUSK SAYING WE MIGHT BE IN A SIM
    I think it’s too philosophically rarified to debate whether we are, as my ramblings above show.He has a different concern. I think he’s saying that AI, in the wrong hands, can mess with our reality in ways we might not be able to anticipate. AI is power. Power corrupts.If we were in a SIM, that a sinisterly programmed AI ‘cracked’ who knows what trouble we could end up with. Our cloud is the wild west populated potentially with monsters. So his solution is not to bury his head in the sand or embrace Luddism, but to disperse the power by making AI capability open source or public. We are lucky to have him.
    The model I laid out in post #50, olives and all that, is wholly inclusive of all potentials you have laid out. And many more you have not mentioned or possibly even considered. It covers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and all the way up to 11 dimensions, if you wish to go there. It can be localized or connective, whatever the case.
    Wow- I was intimidated by it's extreme smartness and complex language, but I tried again. WOW. Are the olives toroid particles? If so we are on the same page! (albeit I still wonder whether it's a simulation, or whether that word is redundant at the quantum level)
    There are theories that fundamental particles are toroids.The theorist was an Aether Physicist, and inspired by the behaviour of smoke rings.
    Brilliant post!
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  19. Link to Post #130
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    I half didn't want to get involved, and go off tangent, but if only to present another possibly angle I'll throw my 2pence into the rapidly growing pot nonetheless...

    In my opinion it's futile trying to solve, or even tackle, the mystery of existence and the substance of reality without taking the spiritual into account - in fact first and utterly foremost into account. Sorry if this is in any way a deviation from the mission brief in this thread Carmody, but in my opinion that is what we are: eternal consciousness manifested as spiritual beings. There are no computer programs involved. In the context of our 'physical reality', we are spiritual beings that have down-shifted, or extruded ourselves, yet further and deeper into this human complex of 'separation'. That's why we're here, in this one of the lowest, densest expressions of the Universe. To experience all this (in a very basic nutshell).

    Humans cannot possibly quantify the nature of reality in "technological", or secular, terms. Reality IS a kind of illusion, but it is not a computer simulation. The physical cosmos is a lower, more base form of reality, through which higher reality (consciousness) is temporarily projected into. All of reality (All-Reality) is just grades/densities/dimensions that overlap one another all the way up to Source. This is just one level, or one 'octave' of reality. The All-reality is like a fish-tank. The heavy silty stuff amasses at the bottom; a finer, thinner dimension of water sits above it; above that the finer stuff of atmosphere; above and beyond that, space, less dense still – and on, and on... It is a dimensional layer-cake. We live in the silt, these heavy lower realms of coarse physical matter. But we are not native to the silt.

    Sorry to be unpopular I guess (I'm used to it), or to thread-jack – in which case ignore, or Mods feel free to delete – but in speculating that the Uni/Multi/Super-verse or whatever is a computer program, running on some extra-terrestrial/AI computer, is in my opinion wholly incorrect. The "computer" is just a somewhat backward and artificial apparatus to augment mankind's corporeal (and evolutionally brief) shortcomings and restrictions. Life of the computer will be short-lived (in the grand scheme) anyway. Because it is a mere appliance, like the mangle, or the bellows. It will last a comparative nano-second in the history and the future history of mankind.

    Mankind uses computers for calculations, communications, and simulations – Yes, simulations indeed, but one day he won't have to use computers at all. He will (if he survives) evolve to a state where he no longer needs to experience the physical restrictions and shortcomings he suffers from today (which requires computers and other technologies). He will use his mind for all this (he's done it before – Atlantis – but he totally effed it all up, but that's another story). Humanity will compute in his/her own mind better even than the artificial machines he once invented to do it for him. He will be able to communicate – telepathically – where once stupid artificial contrivances like telephones were necessary. He will use his mind, along with crystals, to charge, operate, impel, all manner of technologies unknown at the present time. He will move vehicles and craft with the same means (to vast potential), where he once used chemicals and combustion and gears. He might fully master his whole environment with his mind: telekinesis, translocation, you name it. And he will be able to simulate ||Create|| his own realities – not over the long, slow, heavy timeframes he experienced in this down-shifted reality-frequency, but instantly.

    Now one sees, perhaps, if there is any simulation to the physical Universe, techno machines are not it. They are obsolete, unnecessary, and completely anachronistic as far as higher-intelligence goes. There are no alien super-computers or quantum-computers holding 'reality' in its databanks. It is Mind. Everything is Mind and Consciousness. Reality then, perhaps, is a mass-creation (simulated on many levels and grades – which one must rise through sequentially) of many, perhaps infinite minds. Many minds melded as one. In other words, the ultimate intelligence of all: God.

    I'll run away now before I get shot.
    Last edited by Mark (Star Mariner); 8th June 2016 at 15:55.
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote This technology allows for the construction of large scale structures in space, by providing the mass materials of nano-alloys, that are fully configurable, in all ways. It was not the primary purpose of the creation of the technology, but the secondary, unmentioned capacity... in the core patent application, was the capacity for the nano alloy creation, in quantity.

    True "dial an alloy", in massive, I mean massive quantities. Give it the feed-stock, and out come the desired alloys like a sausage production line. It was designed to help Elon get us into space, and to have the real and realized potential for massive structures in space. Co-incidentally (go figure), when attempting to finish the patent work on that, I ran into a road block that has put my life in jeopardy and I'm not past it yet. Eg, right now, I could die at any minute.
    The powder systems for this sort of technology.



    Perfected nano alloys, at the lowest cost possible, in extreme bulk. Almost the same cost as the raw materials. Besides being infinitely malleable in their core design characteristics. which means the capacity to build structures that no one has any idea are possible, yet.

    Meaning a complete game changing in a technology that, in it's form before this game changer, is a complete game changer all on it's own. A magnitude change on what is already set to be a magnitude change. what this does is that the base cost of the raw materials is much closer to the final finished parts cost than ever before. at the same time it is drastically improved in the qualities of the alloys it is made from. Hardness, resilience, flexibility, temperature handling, thermal transfer and so on, are all capable of being dialed in to perfection.

    Edit: to clarify, imagine a primary mirror for a 24" reflecting telescope. Such a mirror would be made of top grade Pyrex, and then be shaped to perfection, and then coated with aluminum or whatnot, and then a protective ultra-thin hardcoat. That mirror might cost $8,000US to make. In reality, it's $3.50 worth of purified silica and some $0.50 cents of additives, and then $0.05 worth of aluminum. Then maybe $0.15 worth of coatings materials. for a total of $4.20 (heh heh) It's the getting to the finished product, that's where the costs are incurred. Imagine changing that formula so that it is much much closer to the $4.20, than it is to the $8,000. That's what I'm talking about, with regard to the manufacturing of high technology alloy based components and structures.


    Regarding Star mariner's above post, that is the kind of post..mostly..that we are trying to avoid.

    This thread is not about me, not about what we on the forum are generally speaking about, it is not for that purpose. It is for the folks who are far away from such rarefied musings.

    If one starts rambling about the far away stuff first, without the intermediary steps, then it will only cause the people whom you want to reach, to walk away. Too much, too much of a differential, without the intervening steps that make sense, from their existing viewpoints. People don't take 100 foot long single steps. They take 18 and 20 inch ones. Which, with some strung together, will finally reach 100 ft in distance.

    Just like it did for most of us in our various ways and positions. Keep perspective, with regard to others. Be the change you want to see, by helping others get there --- and overwhelming them with distant -more finalized- data ....makes no sense whatsoever.
    Last edited by Carmody; 9th June 2016 at 13:50.
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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    The first thing I get stuck on is that, "I know I am not a computer simulation." The statement is so subjective there is no way to prove it and it must be granted that I could be a simulation with thoughts already simulated and prepared for me to peruse. If I stray beyond the bounds of my simulation more thoughts are simulated to bring me back within the normal bounds, range, and effect of the simulation. The simulation could use multiple layers of boundary reinforcement that could easily happen without notice, including effecting other aspects of the simulation to reinforce the boundaries of the errant bit. There is much more to be said about that but I think the op wishes to stay clear of those for now.

    The next thing I saw was the same logical pattern as any other theory, what I call the 12321 model, or the thesis, antithesis, synthesis approach to solving a problem. We have a problem: we exist. We have another problem: the universe seems to act as a computer. So take the two and make them one: the universe is a giant computer simulation. Why computer simulation, why not intelligent simulation? Computers may be incredible number crunchers but they are only potentially smart: they are only as smart as the intelligence that created it. If it is a computer simulation, all we have done is push the pertinent questions to the background because then outside of the simulation is an intelligence that was created some other way - maybe in an actual Big Bang event. Or are we now contemplating the possibility that a computer was spontaneously created by unknown but natural forces?

    The olive analogy is really a very good construct for understanding the concepts involved. Except, again there is envisioned a system that supports and upholds itself. A toroidal force spinning in opposition to another toroidal force is all good but what are they spinning in? Could it not be that ONE toroidal force is being acted upon by the ether and causes it to spin, causes it to turn itself inside out and right-side in again? Reinventing itself over and over and rising from its own ashes, if you will?

    A bounded infinity is another interesting concept. First off, it would then only be quasi-finite, no? Not quite actually infinite but for all intents and purposes, infinite. This would imply folded dimensions that can and do remove any boundary violations by relocating the event to another, more tolerant locale. Since we seem to understand that boundary violations are happening spontaneously throughout the cosmos, these folded dimensions are intrinsic to the design and must contain immense energies.

    The more I think about it the more I feel it is not a simulation in the normal sense. It is comforting to know that science is finally coming around to a meta-physical position in its philosophy, though. What the idea of the universe as a simulation may lead to is very exciting: a look inside the mind of ... an extremely intelligent being.

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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
    We have a problem: we exist. We have another problem: the universe seems to act as a computer. So take the two and make them one: the universe is a giant computer simulation. Why computer simulation, why not intelligent simulation?
    You have a logical problem there. The notion of ‘simulation’ has slipped in here for no obvious reason. The inference should read ‘the universe is a giant computer running a program’. It doesn’t have to simulate anything. If it does, it necessarily implies something/somewhere beyond its own bounds to which it relates on the basis of (necessarily pale) imitation (cf. Plato’s cave). For example, a computer ping-pong game is based on real ping-pong, altogether a richer experience, one that enables you to know more or less how to play the game from the getgo.

    But even within the notion of simulation, there are other types. Analogs include things like play-acting, photocopying and so on. Your production of a play is inevitably and thankfully somewhat different from any other. It ought to add the positive value of some fresh perspective. It does not want to be like the photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, where nothing but distortion is added.
    Then you have digital simulations such as a computer file that I can download onto my computer from yours, supposedly with no loss or gain whatsoever. Well, that is not quite true. When I download someone’s Word document in which they tell me something is highlighted in red, I might have trouble tracing the passage, until I find it highlighted in blue. This is not necessarily a distortion since in this instance the colour is not important, but in others it could be very important. In other words, there is the further layer of software versions to read the file. This happens with analog too of course. Part of the charm of a Charlie Chaplin film is to see him waddling about, but that is of course due to a technological upgrade that can be reversed to make him walk normally.

    If the universe is a giant computer simulation, and it contains a worldwide web with myriads of users running the same files on all kinds of different software, then we might think that there has to be a Platonic elsewhere where everyone is on the same page, not seeing red as blue, where people walk normally, and generally the world is not somehow distorted. But does such a universe actually exist? Maybe not. Perhaps we are talking about self-simulation is purely internal to our universe as a part of its self-similarity. We may be unable to even conceive of one working on different lines. The Platonic ideal would then be immanent to it, not transcendent. Everything is simulation in some form, not just false flag events like Sandy Hook. Drills that turn into real terror attacks add another twist to the effect. But positive phenomena are really no different. The learning process is nothing more than learning to imitate until you reach the point when you have learnt how not to imitate and provide original input. Hence the term ‘simulation’ has taken on a negative connotation that is a travesty of the true concept, in other words a... conceptual simulation


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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    The worry with AI, is that it will be used to grasp more of our daily world, in it's simplicities and complexities, in the individual and in the whole --- in integrated projection, and steer it. Wholesale.

    Which is why the huge waving red flag of Lockheed Martin, which is a notorious black ops firm with great depth of connectivity in known ways, into the reputed breakaway civilization, advanced warfare simulation and actual warfare/defense hardware of all kinds...including AI and Quantum Computers... why their handling the US, Canadian, and UK census information is such a loud alarm bell. Massive human related data sets, inside such a corporation. why Lockheed, of all corporations?....well....

    Regarding controlling the human sphere...this can already be done to some degree, by force (by hook or by crook), when a given group of oligarchy attacks the undercurrent or underbelly of the human avatar. The 4 part series called 'the century of the self' will quite clearly illustrate how this is done. It can be done by an individual or group of few, in a position of influence, and with that individual having the necessary understanding of the components of the avatar that need be activated. Thankfully, the contact of the few individuals who may/might steer humanity are interrupted by the intervention and interpretation of the next set of human layers of the system. Nor is it clear if the few individuals at the top of such a system, have the cognitive wherewithal to be of such a correct nature for such a task.

    A given AI, for example, one of great computational capacity and also connectivity, and the given requisite data sets, can overcome some of those critical limitations, within the scope of influence and control in the human sphere. And, if the given AI is enabled enough to design itself to increase it's own intelligence, then it may surpass the given overall human controlling group.

    Within the definition of the parameters of human intelligence in modern times, we come to a new understanding, one new for most. The idea that for five of each so-called IQ points, we reach a doubling, or halving of computational speed. Lets say I am considered to have an IQ of 100, and you are at 105. This means it is considered that you can come to a given conclusion in a test or issue/problem that we both confront, that you can reach the given conclusion in half the time I can, or that it takes me twice as long to get there. Depending on the given viewing position, a doubling or halving of time. For each change in 5 IQ points.

    This formula came from a member of the Prometheus Society, a group where the minimum measured IQ for entrance to the society is 165. For such a group, the median is probably higher than that. Let's call it 175. 175-100=75. That's 75/5=15. That's fifteen doublings or halvings in computational time, depending on the person committed to the given situation, as compared to the median measurement of IQ for the given bulk of humanity - which is always IQ100.

    What such a formula attempts to indicate, is the idea that if a person with an estimated IQ of 100 confronts a problem, issue, consideration..whatever... and it takes them, on average, 40 years to reach conclusion, the person with the estimated IQ of 175, can reach conclusion in 0.44 days. Of course...this..with all things being equal, in all circumstance, which they are not. But, that in gross or rough estimate the formula holds true, as a model of rough predictability.

    Now, it is thought that a given self learning and thus self teaching (accelerating/increasing intelligence in a positive feedback loop) AI, might eclipse such considerations, in a gross way, ie, seeming to have an IQ of 300-400-1000, and so on. Becoming something that we as humans, cannot relate to.

    There is much more to say on the subject, with regard to clarification and expansion...and I have done so on this forum in other threads - and not specifically related to an AI, but I'll have to attend to life for the moment.... and I'll get back to this later.

    Point being, regarding an explanation... is the why of the idea of AI and a quantum AI, how such is conflated with the idea that we are living in a simulation.
    Last edited by Carmody; 10th June 2016 at 21:57.
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    As for 'Bounded Infinity', that is incorrect, it should say 'Bound Infinity', but that is too common a search term. Bounded Infinity allows me to rub sand in the vagina of grammar Nazis while simultaneously making for more of a unique search term.

    As for the nature of a bound infinity, it is paradox, as a fulcrum in human realization. Ie, that a person of very great intelligence is paradox to the one of, er, differing intelligence. That a infinitely complex system, is only so in the face of one who does not, at that time of their musing on the infinity system, that the one does not have the capacity to understand the limitations of that seeming infinity.

    That trip points in understanding are required to be met or reached, before the bound part can be found and the infinity ceases to exist. Secondly, that within the bound system, the complexity of potential arrangement of the given components, exceeds the number of individual components within that system. In the same way as the potential arrangement of a deck of 52 cards exceeds the number of 52. In this idea of a bounded infinite universe (heh heh) there is not just a lock on understanding but a lock on the system within, as the viewpoint expressed within the system is a function of that system, so it cannot see outside of itself or the seeming infinity of the system. Being a part of that system and not of the whole, realization of such can only come when a minimal level of complexity in self organization of that component is reached.

    Thus that line, "the more I know, the more I understand how little I know".
    Last edited by Carmody; 9th June 2016 at 14:14.
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    If everything is a simulation then what is the need for a soul? Why cant bodies just function well without one...where does the need or experience of lifeforce come from? Why are we a trinity rather than a unity or binary system? What is the need or place for a 3D system where beings are 'organic' if we could survive is a more'perfect' universe or place where we don't have bodies that go wrong.

    I'm not disagreeing with peoples arguments....in fact I can barely understand them, hence my questions. I cant understand how an inorganic computer simulation can create organic 3D beings on an organic world, all with souls to 'drive' them. What would be the point when we could have a 'perfect' version of ourselves if we are just a simulation, albeit an incredibly complex one.

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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by Becky (here)
    If everything is a simulation then what is the need for a soul? Why cant bodies just function well without one...where does the need or experience of lifeforce come from? Why are we a trinity rather than a unity or binary system? What is the need or place for a 3D system where beings are 'organic' if we could survive is a more'perfect' universe or place where we don't have bodies that go wrong.

    I'm not disagreeing with peoples arguments....in fact I can barely understand them, hence my questions. I cant understand how an inorganic computer simulation can create organic 3D beings on an organic world, all with souls to 'drive' them. What would be the point when we could have a 'perfect' version of ourselves if we are just a simulation, albeit an incredibly complex one.
    Hi,
    my answer is - PROBABLY its not a simulation. Alternatively- it may be - an AI operated fish tank. That would be because the 'AI' is a soul-less intelligence that wishes to understand more about what 'soul' is or how to acquire one. I strongly suspect that many entities that we experience as a Grey infestation are beings who have lost their soul or god connection, or are losing it and wish to repair it via us.

    There is also the Archon/Matrix type of model. We , having a God connection can access that fine energy -that they can't. They promote a fear laden crisis reality program for us, so that the fine God energy is 'stepped down' to a fear/lust/survival frequency - that they can then access by hooking into us.Also shown in the film Monsters Inc.
    Last edited by Baby Steps; 9th June 2016 at 17:17.
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  35. Link to Post #138
    Palestinian Territory Avalon Member thunder24's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Quote Posted by Baby Steps (here)
    Quote Posted by Becky (here)
    If everything is a simulation then what is the need for a soul? Why cant bodies just function well without one...where does the need or experience of lifeforce come from? Why are we a trinity rather than a unity or binary system? What is the need or place for a 3D system where beings are 'organic' if we could survive is a more'perfect' universe or place where we don't have bodies that go wrong.

    I'm not disagreeing with peoples arguments....in fact I can barely understand them, hence my questions. I cant understand how an inorganic computer simulation can create organic 3D beings on an organic world, all with souls to 'drive' them. What would be the point when we could have a 'perfect' version of ourselves if we are just a simulation, albeit an incredibly complex one.
    Hi,
    my answer is - PROBABLY its not a simulation. Alternatively- it may be - an AI operated fish tank. That would be because the 'AI' is a soul-less intelligence that wishes to understand more about what 'soul' is or how to acquire one. I strongly suspect that many entities that we experience as a Grey infestation are beings who have lost their soul or god connection, or are losing it and wish to repair it via us.

    There is also the Archon/Matrix type of model. We , having a God connection can access that fine energy -that they can't. They promote a fear laden crisis reality program for us, so that the fine God energy is 'stepped down' to a fear/lust/survival frequency - that they can then access by hooking into us.Also shown in the film Monsters Inc.
    makes me wonder why an AI couldn't have a soul or spirit, we being carbon based, it being silicon (or anything else) based. And the orginal AI on earth doesn't even need to be from here... sorry if i put the cart before the horse with the intent of the thread, remove post if need be...
    OBADIAH 1:21
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    Canada Avalon Member Ernie Nemeth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    The level of complexity one must reach to understand the system is a bound infinity is a threshold then, a plateau. Yet it is more than that, it is like a catalyst in that once the realization is come, more understandings fall into place as a direct result of the first - and in an accelerating curve of comprehension as each old data set is examined and revised.

    Even if this is not a computer simulation this effect could be considered the tripping point of a transistor of sorts. The input is controlled by the "oligarchs" or "system operators" but the design of the system is such that each coherent sub-system within it acts as a transistor. Once enough data points are accumulated the sub-system trips its output circuit. The output circuit in turn feeds back into the input and continues an escalating cascade until a new point of equilibrium is reached. (Let's call that a revelation)

    The final outcome is unclear, though. Maybe there is a second output circuit that, after a certain number of revelations has transpired, triggers some other rare occurrence (let's call it transcendence) that either resets the sub-system to factory settings or rings a bell and out rolls an avalanche of coins: Ding, ding, ding! You win! Or even better only activates when the collective simultaneously reaches a certain level of sophistication and unlocks new collective opportunities the individuals can access directly.

    There are so many questions but the tenets of the "olive analogy" seem to parallel some esoteric philosophies in principle and may offer a tidy method to reconcile the quantum with relativity theory. The simulation part seems superfluous to the argument, unless by simulation we mean "thought".

    The simulation theory's best argument relies on the absolute values that cannot be further reduced, increased or altered like the smallest length, coldest temperature, densest material and so forth. They seem to suggest a "pixilation" effect. That just means that the universe has a resolution, like a television set does. Any attempts at greater resolution results in quantized behavior - behavior that tends to average the anomalies back into the whole, so to speak, with the least amount of fuss, normal behavior be damned. All that exhibits is the absolute necessity for some values to never change, although that might be deciphered as a complexity limit, and it certainly seems like a nice description.

    Interesting thread

    It might even turn out to be apropos.

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  39. Link to Post #140
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Is our Universe a Computer Simulation?

    Irrespective of my beliefs/theories on this particular topic, I have a genuine question with regards the signed/sealed/delivered hypothesis of us all living in an AI controlled super-simulation. What about the (myriad) other realities?

    Before anyone cries "metaphysics"!, Physics supports the theory of the Multiverse as well. For example one has three choices: turn left, turn right, or go straight ahead. I turn left. But the energy (the potential) of turning right or going straight ahead has to 'go somewhere', and it does: into a brand new Universe – where turning right and going straight ahead did happen. We create our realities. We also create realities we don't know anything about and cannot perceive. The Universe is constantly sub-dividing and branching off into new realities. We are doing it all the time - to infinity. So my legitimate (and quite serious) question is, how does this theory fit in with a computer-simulated universe?

    cheers
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