Psychological effects of circumcision?

[Omni]

I had a thought while I was outside just now...

What psychological effects does severe pain and suffering the moment you enter the world have, if any?

Does anyone have some intelligent thoughts or knowledge about this?

Have any tests been done regarding circumcision, in terms of psychological profiling etc and seeing if any big differences occur with non circumcised and circumcised??

I'm not saying circumcision will make someone bad or anything like that. And I hope nobody feels bad if they are(I wont say if I am or not). I just think it may have an effect on a babies psyche. Perhaps it is totally washed away with time. I don't remember when I was born

Do things that happen to you at that age even matter in terms of development later in life?

What do you think the long term psychological effects(if any) of circumcision at birth are for babies?

[Heyoka_11]

Hi Omniverse,

I honestly don't think that it matters one way or the other. Perhaps those who have been circumcised would eventually question the removal of what was once a part of their being, but who knows. For my own part, I think that the only time in life when the question would cross a males mind, would be during adolescence, and only extend as far as pondering what the girls actually prefer!

I am assuming that the procedure would be conducted using a local anesthetic, so perhaps the psychological effects of suffering pain may not be an issue.

[KosmicKat]

Posted by Omniverse (here)
Do things that happen to you at that age even matter in terms of development later in life?

All I can say from the point of view of a mother is that I have seen too many examples of parents who think their child is too young to be affected by something in their environment. It may be years before the damage becomes evident, but it can be identified.

[westhill]

I have two sons both are NOT circumcised because I researched it ahead of time. This is unnecessary trauma set deep in the mind where there are no words just experience perpetrated on BABIES, usually without pain killers.
They scream. Let's think which part of your body you would like cut off today. Even back in the late 1980s 50% of parents were deciding not to circumcise theirs sons. Imagine if we decided to start slicing our daughters. I said no!
westhill

[Deedee]

After my Sister's Son was born she showed me the bruising after his circumcision. I swore after seeing that I would never do that to my Son and I never did..

[delfine]

The research of a hypnotherapist like dr. Shakuntala Modi shows that it is indeed very traumatizing for an infant to go through circumcision, and it often has grave future implications for the
child. You can find the info in her book: "memories of God and creation".

[9eagle9]

I agreee there Westhill, its ritual mutilation, its patriachal in nature, a patriachal rite meant to de masculanize or at least traumatize a man's access to his true divine birthrite, blocking access to masculine energy right at the offset....a sort of cellular memory trauma . This act has Jewish origins, now bump up to concentration camps, which had thousands of men in them, and a handful of guards. Those men could not overwhelm a handful of guards....because.....they were literally from birth cut off from the energies that would allow it...it sounds bizzare and its a bit more in depth than that but......that's the brief summary.


Men no more belong in patriachal energy than women do....

Can this divine essence be reclaimed. Naturally, it never went away ....its a trauma, a means of 'cutting' off a man from his divine masculine energies, and the first step is understanding it, and then abating the cellular memory trauma attached to it.

[seko]

They did it to me when I was a new born. I feel good hihihi

I'm not jewish. I actually thought that it was normal to be like this. hihihi

Never had an issue about it.

But it's good to hear you sharing your points of view on this one.

Thanks to all.

[9eagle9]

Do you feel good or...do you have no other frame of reference or experience in this lifetime to measure your 'feel good' by?

If you had the opportunity to live for a few moments without that trauma imposed on you, to make a comparison by, you may very well walk away with a different opinion of 'feel good'.

[Carmody]

This is my hypothesis, and there is every evidence to support that it is real. As the origins of religion and secret societies become exposed into the grander public view, the face and the farce of these hidden systems also becomes exposed.

IMO, it creates a blockage in the mind, a block to the doorway of the source and is , IMO a contrived act designed to create socoopathic tendencies in the males of the tribe. This, in order to use them as a grouped weapon against the world. To prevent the reach for spirituality, true depths of spirituality. True depths of connection to spirit and dimensions.

To cut men of that group off from the true source of their power and to keep it in the hands of the preisthood.

That is the true face of the reasons for circumcision, IMO.

it may be riding under the guise of being for some other reasons but, note that the depth of true spirituality and connection to the pathway to multidimensional freedom, to true multidimensional spirituality via the esoteric arts is exceedingly in deficit in all groups of people who practice circumcision.

The way is closed.

They even demand that it be done on a specific day, the 8th day (judaic). This was done, I suspect in a Mengele type level of experimentation, by observation of the results. Too early, too sociopathic. Too late, not effective enough.

The door is not shut in a big, huge way, it is simply pushed away, in the base wiring. Deep in the system, fully outside of conscious thought or conscious realization. In essence, in the levels that only deep hypnosis into the base layers can reveal. The neural connections to source at the base launch of thoughts level, where our consciousness forms and comes out of and passes through, it is shifted, blocked, circumvented from visiting depths.

The door to the depths of spirituality is filtered out by damaging the actual neural connective tissue that forms in early age. Like cutting a main branch off a tree, when it is a few days old. Sure the tree grows up. But how fast and how perfect would it have grown, if it's main reach, it's main spiral of life had not been cut off when it was a few days old? That is what has been done to circumcised males. You've been blocked from developing properly in a full normal human lifespan. The mark of the hidden hand lies in the very act of one's circumcision.

So they tuned it, to fit their desires, then the populace get another explanation that is 'believable'. Thus it becomes embedded into the religious system, from then on, without question. This goes back to the banana on the stairs and the spraying of the monkeys experiment, which did indeed happen. We can have traditions that we follow with absolute rigor, that have no meaning in conscious thinking reality but we do not question them.

The same thing happens in science, we become dogmatic in that space, as well. We fail to question the fundamentals.

The way is closed.

I always question everything for it's true veracity. It's true depths.

This came about, as I've said before, when I asked questions with my dad, as a kid. He'd say, 'lets figure it out'. So we'd try and reason it out. When we reached the limit of our knowledge and his knowledge, he'd admit defeat, for we had exhausted our knowledge base. He then told me that we needed more information and that the path from then own, was my own. We would also guess, and then test fit the guesses. This is critical. It established the methodology for hypothesis and test fitting of data, in my mind, as a core design/function/wiring parameter.

And in that way, he'd not supply 'answers' to me, he supplied, instilled in me the 'capacity to reason'. Which was just as effective in shutting me up. It just took a bit more effort and time than taking the easy way out, the lazy way out --by telling me to shut up.

So, with that simple methodology tied to about 1 year of effort when I was a child, he established the capacity in my growing mind to REASON and look into everything. Instead of turning me into a dogmatic religious turnip. For turnips are blocked from developing reason, they are wired to only take answers.

They are wired to unflinchingly believe 'paradox'. That there are places that contain only unquestionable answers, and not to expand their minds. Shut up kid! Be quiet! Stop bothering me!

That is how important it was, for him to do it that way. He was child #4 out of 13. So he had a chance to see how the world is put together, from being babied, to then being in charge of children, as a child. To see how the world and what is in it, affects children, as they grow. To learn this, at and in his core development. And none of the boys in that group were circumcised.

Most Native American male children, for example, understand and can reach spirit and dimensions. No childhood trauma forced on them. I had Native American friends when I was a child. My experience is direct. I had some that were westernized, in their childhoods. The difference was plain to see.


IF this seems a bit 'over the top, well understand this: That the limit of one's capacity to reason, is not the limit of the next. There is always someone smarter than you. In that equation, knowledge, or even data, can be exchanged for capacity to think. Paradox means you are missing some data or your search for data is incomplete, that there is base information that you are unaware of, on and in some level.

The trick of the political class, the ruling class, the secretive class, is just that. They rule via contrivance and hidden data. They work with information and information control. They work with the transfer and control of information between people and the record and thus manipulate the unseen and unrealized areas of human psychology.

When sociopaths grow, as children, this is the first thing they encounter. they encounter a base morality and base empathy and connection in others, that they step into, in a wrong way, by accident. They keep doing it as they cannot understand it as a barrier. Thus they are educated in the ways of how to navigate the unseen and unrealized aspects of morality, ethics, social glue and societal function, as children. they learn cunning,and secretiveness, as a method of survival. To understand how to be safe but hidden in a group that is not of their wiring type or ilk. They learned it as a matter of survival. The best sociopaths are not in prison, and there are one hellova lot more of them than you think. The most cunning and dangerous have risen to power positions in society, as they have not the moral and ethical limits that you have.

So my point is, that the very position of being sociopaths as children, has taught them how to manipulate the rest of us and how to, over time, group together as like minds, form secret societies, manipulate society, manipulate the unseen paths in people and groups and manipulate and create religious structures.

I hope this illustrates how you've ended up with a nightmare machine, hiding at the deepest levels, at the top, running your world, unseen. Unseen by the more empathetic and reasonable of humans who have no need or desire for such insanities. You simply didn't see it, it has been purposely hidden by the kind of people that the idea of hidden gears and clockworks and such machinations and manipulations come to them, naturally. It is their world. If you saw these insanities, you'd do something about it. Thus the lessons in survival of sociopaths, as children.

It is well past time to shut them down.

You must also understand that they cannot shut that function off in themselves, they will always do this, they are wired that way. We need to get to the point that an entire generation of humankind has excised them from the system, and then continue recognizing them properly in the childhood state, and circumventing their very creation as an animalistic and antagonistic destructive individual who will gather with others of like mind as they mature.

For this is EXACTLY how they function and hide... and from that hidden space, they reach out and do the same to you. They tear down your social and societal fabric to insert their own desires.

They turn the males into little soldiers for their causes and desires, damage the females through this vehicle they've created and manipulate entire countries, continents and worlds... for their desires. They are cunning, secretive, and nasty.

You'll have to grow to be aware of this, and thus fix it at the root causal point. And never, ever, as long as this earth shares space with this sort of genetic trait, never relax your guard.

For they cannot re-wire their minds any more than you can. And that rust will never sleep, and thus.... neither can you.

They want and will kill in any way they desire to, with no empathy or caring of what they do to you, they are trying to re-wire the world in their shape, their nightmare. They do it from and in their own methods and wiring, launched out of their psychology and very existence. They mirror themselves, just like all of us do.

It is as 'plain as day', as they say.. All you have to do is open your eyes, with this information... and you can see it, everywhere.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I'm with Carmody on this one, as is often the case. There's no medical reason(people don't have to wait two years to bathe) anymore so why is it still practiced?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

After a few quick searches:
PAIN RESPONSE DURING CIRCUMCISION

To help in determining the degree of pain and stress caused by circumcision, infant response was compared to that resulting from other procedures. Levels of cortisol (a hormone released into the blood in response to stress) and behavioral responses were recorded for newborns undergoing circumcision, heel-stick blood sampling, weighing and measuring, and discharge examination. Circumcision resulted in significantly higher levels of behavioral distress and blood cortisol levels than did the other procedures. Since the infant is restrained during circumcision, the response to the use of restraint was similarly tested
Circumcision pain is described in this research study by Howard Stang and his colleagues from the Department of Pediatrics, Group Health Inc., and the University of Minnesota Institute of Child Development: “There is no doubt that circumcisions are painful for the baby. Indeed, circumcision has become a model for the analysis of pain and stress responses in the newborn.” They report that the infant will “cry vigorously, tremble, and in some cases become mildly cyanotic [having blueness or lividness of the skin, caused by a deficiency of oxygen] because of prolonged crying.”
Another article went on to describe how this cortisol(stress hormone release) should never enter a childs life until later years and that it permanently changes the childs physiology from the get go. Very interesting, I can now say I certainly WILL NOT have any child of mine genitally mutilated after birth, good thread thank you!

[Carmody]

One can relax the self and have the door open again. What has to be done, in my personal experience, is to go back, in the mind... and relive life as a small nearly newborn child, to relive those moments and reconnect. Not for a few minutes but weeks, months even --to get the mind to rewire. To rewire around and beyond the block.

So that is what I did.

I was not circumcised. What happened to me was arguably worse.

[Ella]

I seem to remember in 'The Magical Child' by Joseph Chilton Pearce, that he even suggests a link to sudden death syndrome in babies. He certainly believes that it is linked to severe childhood trauma.

Thank goodness it isn't something that is widely practiced here in Sweden.

[Carmody]

So each of you circumcised males of good spirit, good intent, humane thinking and desire, you literally bear the mark of the hidden hand, on and in your mind and body, as a direct attempt to circumvent you from becoming who you really are.....and to use you as a weapon against all other people, in an effort to tear down everything you believe in.

If you then understand this, I can't imagine the level of your anger, your desire ...the absolute smoldering unending rage that will build.....to see this thing, this nightmare - end.

And now you know.

And from this point onward, every thought, every moment... will be transformed into unending knowledge of, a knowing.... a desire ...to end this thing. For you bear the mark, at the deepest level.

[onawah]

"The Magical Child" is such an important book! Pearce's work deserves so much more attention.

Posted by Ella (here)
I seem to remember in 'The Magical Child' by Joseph Chilton Pearce, that he even suggests a link to sudden death syndrome in babies. He certainly believes that it is linked to severe childhood trauma.

Thank goodness it isn't something that is widely practiced here in Sweden.

[Ella]

Posted by onawah (here)
"The Magical Child" is such an important book! Pearce's work deserves so much more attention.

Posted by Ella (here)
I seem to remember in 'The Magical Child' by Joseph Chilton Pearce, that he even suggests a link to sudden death syndrome in babies. He certainly believes that it is linked to severe childhood trauma.

Thank goodness it isn't something that is widely practiced here in Sweden.

Its is indeed a wonderful book..... the only 'child rearing' book that I have bothered to read as a mother with a young child. I wish more people who had children would read it.

[chancy]

Good day everyone:
I had to post here because there seems to be alot of misconceptions in regards to circumcision. First off I must say that being a fellow that believes in circumcision I seem to be going against the grain in this thread. What amazes me the most is the loudest in regards to NO circumcision don't have it done or don't believe in it. I am standing on the ladder and proclaiming that circumcision is good! It's not for everyone and that is completely a free choice for everyone. But to tell people what it's not is not right either. First off I was circumcised and have had NO ill effects other than cleanliness. My sons have been circumsised with NO ill effects. One was done at 3 years old which was recommended by the doctor and I DEFINITELY don't agree with waiting until 3. (This doctor is no longer our doctor). My son who is alot older now knew about circumcision as early as he could possible remember. He likes the idea of being circumcised because it's alot easier to pee straight and he doesn't have to always spend time taking extra time bathing to clean the extra foreskin.
I have asked him his opinions and he is very forthright stating it's the only was to go.
My other son was done at 5 days old and it was so unobtrusive that it wasn't even noticed. He's in complete agreement with circumcision also.
IF I had to make the decision to circumcised my kids again I would in a heartbeat. My wifes family does not believe in the practice and even she agrees that having her sons circumcised was the right thing to do.
PLEASE NOTE: Circumcision is a personal choice and therefore should be respected as so. It's not for everyone and that's why in the usa it's a 50/50 devide. In Canada it's a 70/30 for it, Elsewhere I have no idea. When making the choice yes or no it's always and should be a personal family choice. I did not have circumcision done to me or my kids for religious beliefs. It was always done for cleanliness and ease of keeping clean. This is only our families personal beliefs.
I am only giving a positive side to this topic. Take it for what it's worth.
May everyone find truth in a swells of information.
Chancy

[Carmody]

That is patently ridiculous.

Let an adult decide if they want to mutilate themselves. Don't do it for them as a child...or put it in their minds.

You are failing to understand the depth of importance in this little bit of skin, and how it has been done, how and when it has been removed.....throughout time and history.

You have failed to read upon, or understand the point..... altogether.

To overstate things slightly in the physical world..but to greatly understate with relation to be and reach true connectedness in spirituality:...It's like telling people it is a good idea to cut off the child's index finger at birth so they'll never pick their nose.

You appear to be coming to a wrong conclusion in a layer of physicality about something that is much deeper, with regard real depths of truth in this matter.

It's like me forming a giant lie.... and telling kids they need to go the middle east and kill terrorists. You are missing the point entirely.

[Maia Gabrial]

How about the effects it has on moms who sent their infant sons to get it done? My son was peacefully asleep when they wheeled him out. But when they brought him back, he was grunting in pain. And I felt horrible guilt. None of the men in my family, including uncles and cousins here in the US and in Europe are circumsized. They're fine. No infections or any of the reasons they use to get people to do it.