The Bob Lazar story

[alienHunter]

Though, I'm a fan of Bob Lazar, the one thing that has always bothered me about him is his use of the term 'back engineer'. The proper technical term is 'reverse engineer'. Kind of a nit...but it's always made me wonder...

[ernesto]

I wonder if this case was real...


http://www.boblazar.com/
http://users.skynet.be/bob.lazar/www.boblazar.com/

There is a plastic kit of the UFO, made by Testors:


Ernesto

[Maia Gabrial]

Remember how Bob Lazar was seriously harassed and made to look like a fool after coming forward with what he saw at Area 51? Remember how they tried to prove he never worked for them, even tried to make his impressive creditials sound phoney?
Don't you think it's odd how quickly they took him back into their fold? I wonder if he's still alive....

[Harley]

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
Remember how Bob Lazar was seriously harassed and made to look like a fool after coming forward with what he saw at Area 51? Remember how they tried to prove he never worked for them, even tried to make his impressive creditials sound phoney?
Don't you think it's odd how quickly they took him back into their fold? I wonder if he's still alive....

Yes, Yes, Yes, and the last I heard Yes.

Just like Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann).

[wynderer]

hello Harley my friend -- good to see you again -- thanks for info re B Lazar still being alive

when deeply exploring via the net the connection between the Human military & ETs, i sometimes felt that i was spinning down endless rabbit holes

wyn

Posted by Harley Hawkins (here)

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
Remember how Bob Lazar was seriously harassed and made to look like a fool after coming forward with what he saw at Area 51? Remember how they tried to prove he never worked for them, even tried to make his impressive creditials sound phoney?
Don't you think it's odd how quickly they took him back into their fold? I wonder if he's still alive....

Yes, Yes, Yes, and the last I heard Yes.

Just like Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann).

[Harley]

A personal/professional problem crops-up at work. You take it to your manager and he tells you he'll see what he can do, but the problem persists. So you go back to your manager, telling him that something really needs to be done. The next thing you know your manager comes back to you and, sometimes in a very firm way, tells you something like 'This is the way it is. Now forget about it and get back to work'.

The problem persists and you start complaining about it with your work-mates. Some will agree but most do not want to stir up problems with management ("The system"). They are good little robots.

The problem still is not being addressed, may even be getting worse, and is really bothering you now. Maybe even to the point where it's affecting your work performance.

By now you are bringing it home with you, talking and complaining about it with your family. And then your friends. And then . . .

Sound a little familiar to anyone here?

The scenario above is just a generalized example. But the point is something like this could garner you a lot of attention by your employers and, depending on your professional circumstances, your punishment might be anywhere from a verbal reprimand, to getting fired, to . . . ?

So what can you do to protect yourself from being fired . . . or worse? Simple. It's one of the most important aspects of job security. You specialize. And the more areas within your job that you can become an expert, the more invaluable you become to your employers.

I don't know any specifics regarding the two guys mentioned above but, generally speaking, I know I'm not far off.
These guys gained attention, were reprimanded (warned), and then were made an offer of which they couldn't refuse, because they were experts in their own fields. They were needed.

In contrast, compare the circumstances of 'Mr. X', a former UFO archivist (http://projectcamelot.org/mr_x.html).

'Mr. X' was (or had been) in a position where he seen a lot of documents and was privy to a lot of information, but it wasn't a position in which one could really specialize. In other words he could easily be (or had already been) replaced by just about anyone who could qualify for the required security clearances, etc.

The point of my comparison is simple: Whatever his reasons were for talking . . . Where is he now?

The next step is damage control.

For the most part, the countless and endless (and many times dead-ended) rabbit holes begin with simple damage control and then (to the largest extent) are created by the alt-community. And more specifically - The Conspiracy Theorists.

You can do wonders with the tiniest bit of disinfo.

And for the ptb, You Tube is one of the best inventions ever.

In any case: Problem solved.

[MistahMojoRisin]

I for one have never been sold on this story. As somone who investigates many ufology topics (and has done so since the age of 11), I used to believe there was a lot of truth with this one. Then he disapeared and fell off the radar. One person who I put a lot of faith in is Stanton Friedman when it comes to doing research and investigations on UFO topics. I have copied and pasted the following article of interest on Bob L that he posted and if interested you can see the full article here on his official website:

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index...fdt=2011.01.07

Here it is in case your to lazy to follow the ling Read on, interesting reading.

THE BOB LAZAR FRAUD


December 1997
(Updated January 2011)
By Stanton T. Friedman



Pierce College Stephanie Asher
Incredible claims have been made about Bob Lazar for years. He supposedly is a physicist with an MS in Physics from MIT and an MS in Electronics from the California Institute of Technology. He was a “Scientist” for Los Alamos National Laboratory, and obtained a job back-engineering UFOs at a very secret site S-4 near Area 51 in Nevada through noted Physicist, the late Dr. Edward Teller.

Supposedly he figured out how saucers work using Element 115 — matter/anti-matter, etc. He was able to steal a small quantity of 115 from the 500 pounds available, but this was stolen back. There was indeed an announcement in early 2004 about the production of 4 atoms of element 115 by operating a huge European accelerator for many weeks. It has a very short half life so there is no way to accumulate pounds of it. He supposedly came forward with his story despite death threats because he thought the public has a right to know. Videotapes are available with his claims.

It is all BUNK.

Not one shred of evidence has been put forth to support this story: No diplomas, no résumés, no transcripts, no memberships in professional organizations, no papers, no pages from MIT or Caltech yearbooks. He also mentioned, in a phone conversation with me, California State University at Northridge and Pierce Junior College — also in the San Fernando Valley, California. I checked all four schools. Pierce said he had taken electronics courses in the late 1970s. The other three schools never heard of him.

The page from the Los Alamos National Lab phone book with Lazar’s name on it clearly states that it includes employees of the DOE and outside contractor, Kirk Meyer. “K/M” follows Lazar’s name. This proves he worked for K/M, not LANL.

I checked with LANL’s personnel department for Lazar’s name and that of an old colleague. They found my guy, but not Lazar.

He was publicly asked when he got his MS from MIT. He said “Let me see now, I think it was probably 1982.” Nobody getting an MS from MIT would not know the year immediately. He was asked to name some of his profs, He said: “Let’s see now, Bill Duxler will remember me from the physics department at Caltech.” I located Dr. Duxler. He’s a Pierce Junior College physics prof, and never taught at Caltech. Lazar was registered in one of his courses at the same time Lazar was supposedly at MIT! Nobody who can go to MIT goes to Pierce JC, not to mention the rather long commute between LA and Cambridge, Mass.

I checked his High School in New York State. He graduated in August, not with his class. The only science course he took was chemistry. He ranked 261 out of 369, which is in the bottom third. There is no way he would have been admitted by MIT or Caltech. An MS in Physics from MIT requires a thesis. No such thesis exists at MIT, and he is not on a commencement list. The notion that the government wiped his CIVILIAN records clean is absurd. I checked with the Legal Counsel at MIT — no way to wipe all his records clean. The Physics department never heard of him and he is not a member of the American Physical Society.

When he declared bankruptcy in the mid 1980s for almost $300,000.00 he listed his occupation as a self-employed film processor. With MS degrees from MIT and Caltech? Caltech would not have accepted him for an MS program, if he already had one from MIT.

His propulsion scheme sounds good (as do many science fiction stories), but makes no real sense especially in view of how difficult it would be to add protons to #115. Gravity wave amplification sounds great but what does it mean?

He could not have gotten a Compartmentalized Security clearance having operated a brothel. His W-2 form from the Department of Naval Intelligence totals under $1000.00, at most a week’s pay for a scientist. You can’t get a security clearance in a week.

Scientists leave trails. Lazar is NOT a scientist. He couldn’t even answer scientific questions put to him. An excellent review of Bob’s “Physics” can be seen at web.archive.org/web/20061220030435/http://www.serve.com/mahood/lazar/critiq.htm.

I should add that Bob is a bright and talented guy who operated a jet powered car, put on fireworks displays, and apparently helped physics professors working at the Los Alamos Meson accelerator facility.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by MistahMojoRisin (here)
I for one have never been sold on this story. As somone who investigates many ufology topics (and has done so since the age of 11), I used to believe there was a lot of truth with this one. Then he disapeared and fell off the radar. One person who I put a lot of faith in is Stanton Friedman when it comes to doing research and investigations on UFO topics. I have copied and pasted the following article of interest on Bob L that he posted and if interested you can see the full article here on his official website:

http://www.stantonfriedman.com/index...fdt=2011.01.07

Stan Friedman really punches a hole in that one -- thanks.

Your first two sentences confuse me. On the one hand you "have never been sold on this story", but on the other hand you "used to believe there was a lot of truth with this one"

[MistahMojoRisin]

so let me rephraze my earlier statment (thanks for the catch I wrote this on my way out of a hard day at work.)
As a younger man I thought there was something to this.
After reading S.F's statments I have not been sold on the B.L story. I think S.F. makes many great points here.

[jackovesk]

My Recollections Of The Enigmatic Bob Lazar ... Alleged Former Area 51 'Scientist' By Norio Hayakawa
7-8-6

Most Recent News On Bob Lazar (Click Here)

I am not here to defend nor to put Bob Lazar down.

The fact is that Bob Lazar has been categorized as a fraud by most so-called UFO researchers and the public-at-large, although there are still some who hold on to the belief that Bob Lazar was who he said he was and that he did everything that he claimed.

One person who still totally and adamantly supports Bob Lazar's claims is KLAS-TV Eyewitness News anchorman, George Knapp, and of course, Bob's friend, Las Vegas real estate appraiser, Gene Huff.

Is Bob Lazar a total fraud?

I am still not sure. I still have some unanswered questions.

As for Bob Lazar's timeline, the whole world had already been familiar with Tom Mahood's timeline of Lazar, which he published in 1994.

However, not everyone is familiar with Gene Huff's 1995 rebuttal of Tom Mahood's timeline of Lazar.

But, thanks to Gary Sellani, Gene Huff's 1995 rebuttal of Tom Mahood's timeline was once again posted on the dreamlandresort.com recently.

As I said above, personally, I still have some unanswered questions about Bob Lazar:

It was on February 21, 1990 that a crew of Nippon Television Network (NTV) of Japan and I (total of 7) had an opportunity to visit and interview Bob Lazar at his residence in Las Vegas. This was made possible through Bob's friend, real estate appraiser, Gene Huff.

We arrived at Bob's residence around 11 a.m., or so, to the best of my recollection.

They took us to the living room, which at that time did not seem to me to be fully furnished and "lived". They showed us Bob's study room, which also did not seem to me to be fully furnished. Yes, there were a few books on physics on the bookshelf and there were computers on his desk. In any case, the interview was conducted by a writer from a magazine and I was simply there as an interpreter.

The interview lasted about two hours.

When we arrived at his house, there were about 5 or 6 men in the house.

At first I thought they were simply Bob's friends. But later on I notieced something unusual about some of those men. It seemed that throughout the interview, whether in the living room or in Bob's study room, two men were constantly on each side of Bob. One of them seemed to have a rectangular black communications equipment with him. Perhaps it could have been a cellphone (although this was in 1990).

When we moved to the kitchen area, those two men also moved alongside Bob. When we moved to Bob's study room, those men also moved together with Bob.

So we asked Bob, "who are these men?" Bob simply said that, "don't worry, these are just friends".

Perhaps this was nothing. But I just thought to bring this up, because that's the one thing throughout the interview that impressed me the most.

What do I think of Bob?

I still cannot come to a conclusion.

In any case, later that Wednesday afternoon, the TV crew and I drove about 2 hours from Las Vegas and reached the location where Bob had said we would see a test flight of a object arising over the Groom Mountains.

And, indeed, immediately after sundown and after haveing set up the TV cameras, etc. on the dirt road (right next to Hwy 375), Lord, behold!!, around 6:45 p.m. we observed a bright orangish light appearing over the Groom Mountains and made some interesting maneuvers. I was quite impressed at that time. Around 7:15 p.m., another light came up. In any case, this was the beginning of my real interest in Area 51, before Area 51 was even a household name at that time.

As the years went by, I came to dismiss my initial excitement about those sightings. I came to the conclusion that those lights were a test-flying of our aircraft (such as prototypes of newer black triangular craft) (or possibly, the initial phases of test-flights of UAVs, or "unmanned aerial vehicles", or even "unmanned combat aerial vehicles" (UCAVs), or other remotely-controlled platforms.

As the years went by, I also began to have some questions regarding Bob Lazar. A few years later, I did see a copy of Bob Lazar's paycheck.
It wasn't much. Something like about $987.00.

Then I found out that Bob Lazar's Social Security Number did not belong to Bob Lazar but to a lady in New York.

Also, I began to have doubts about Bob Lazar for his not keeping the promise that he would fly to Japan in early March of 1990 to appear live on the 2-hour Japanese TV program on Area 51. I was waiting for his flight from Vegas to Los Angeles where I was to meet him. He never showed up. Later on, the producer of the TV program said that he got an urgent call from Bob that Bob was not allowed to go to Japan to appear on that program. This was a total disappointment.

Also, later on, I also came under the impression that Bob Lazar kept the $(honorarium) which was a guarantee that he would appear on the program live in Japan. Nevertheless, in mid March of 1990, a two-hour prime time TV Special on Area 51 was aired in Japan (without the live appearance portion of the program) and was seen by millions and millions of people there, when Area 51 wasn't even known by a lot of the American public.

So, what do I think of Bob Lazar?

Like I said, I still cannot conclusively dismiss him totally.

He is a genius in science and technology, no doubt about that.

The whole world, by now, also knows that Bob Lazar moved to New Mexico in the Sandia Mountains, next to Albuquerque. It is my understanding that he still does some contract work occasionally for various defense-related sub-contractors (not the direct contractors). His present activities also include United Nuclear.

Was Bob Lazar part of a disinformation campaign? Was he a witting participant or was he manipulated unwittingly in the disinformation ploy? I do not know. What I also know is that Bob Lazar had a huge debt while he worked in New Mexico, prior to moving in to Nevada.

What I also know is that the Air Force did benefit from the belief by a segment of the population (and a push by a segment of the population to promote this theory) that Area 51 was somehow associated with extraterrestrial technology.

It definitely helped in bringing about the "laughter curtain" to Area 51, which was needed as a "cover story".

It is my understanding that occasionally, "cover stories" are created by defense contractors during certain projects to draw attention away from or to bring up a "laughter curtain" to discret researchers' scrutiny of such projects.

But again, I could be wrong.

STRANGE BEHAVIOR OF BOB LAZAR PART II

In 1991, my former colleague, Gary Schultz and I organized an "Ultimate UFO Seminar" in the Little A-le-Inn (at that time known as Rachel's Bar and Grill).

Despite little prior notice on this event, that memorable evening, the entire inn was filled with people. It was standing room only. There weren't any space left even to walk around.

The only speakers were Gary Schultz and myself.

We did not invite any particular guests, but we were surprised to see Lincoln County Sheriff himself, Dahl Bradfield, seated inside. We were also astonished to see William Cooper (who, later on became a rabble-rousing militiaman and was killed a few years ago in Arizona) seated also, silently listening to our presentation.

There was Anthony J. Hilder (a rabble-rousing former talk show host in Alaska) in the crowd.

We also noticed that Sean Morton (an unknown enthusiast at that time who later on became a well-known self-professed "prophet" through his appearances on the wacky Art Bell show) was seated. (I am ashamed to say that I myself was a rabble-rouser at that time who also had appeared on the wacky Art Bell radio show a few times!!).

As Gary and I continued with our speech, we were surprised to see John Lear (son of the inventor of the Lear Jet) enter the room. A little later, the door opened again and here comes George Knapp, KLAS-TV news anchorman. Then about 30 minutes later, we were astonished to see Bob Lazar enter the room, together with his girlfriend. There was no space left for them to be seated. We never expected these individuals to be there. Literally, the entire Little A-le-Inn was filled with so many so-called UFO "luminaries", all in one place. There must have been at least 95 to 110 people there.

Bob Lazar and his girlfriend stood in the kitchen, initially appearing to be looking towards us and listening to our presentations. But, instead, what we noticed was that Bob Lazar was continually laughing at Gary Schultz while he was giving the serious lecture. It seemed as if Lazar was mocking the entire Area 51/S-4 topic as if he himself didn't believe in it. I simply could not understand the reaction of Bob Lazar. There may be nothing to this, but I just felt that his behavior was a little odd.

Two years later, in 1993, again Gary Schultz and I organized a much larger "Ultimate UFO Seminar" at the same place. However, this time we anticipated a much larger crowd so we decided to have it outside during the daytime, right next to the Little A-le-Inn. I believe it was in May. By this time, Gary Schultz became more acquainted with Bob Lazar and Bob Lazar agreed to come to speak.

We requested Joe Travis of the Little A-le-Inn to set up 200 chairs outside. Joe said he will take care of it.

When both Gary and I arrived at the Little A-le-Inn the day of the gatheirng, we were totally astonished to see a huge military tent right next to the Inn. What was strange was that we didn't expect such a large military tent to be there. When we asked Joe Travis how he got that tent, he simply said that he borrowed the tent from the base (i.e., Area 51). I wasn't aware then that Joe Travis had a working relationship with Area 51!! (the fact of which he really didn't talk too much).

The base definitely knew that we would be having a large gathering in Rachel.

(In recent times, it is my understanding that the new security cameras at the present day Little A-le-Inn were installed by military contractors, per gratis or not, I am not sure, although Pat Travis said that the cameras are not connected to anything beyond her operation. As you know, it is assumed that there is a fixed camera on Bald Mountain pointing at the Little A-le-Inn's parking lot).

In any case, there were almost 200 people (from all over the U.S. and even some from Canada) at the seminar/gathering. Remember, this was in 1993. Among the audience was Glenn Campbell, a computer specialist who just moved to Nevada from the East Coast. Glenn Campbell, later on, became an Area 51 activist who was instrumental in publicizing the existence of Area 51 base to a much wider segment of society.

By the way, when Bob Lazar arrived at the seminar (he came with a couple of ladies), we were surprised to see his Corvette which had a license plate "MJ-12". It was probably his mockery of the alleged existence of MJ-12. That memorable event was covered by a Los Angeles Times reporter.

That was to be Bob Lazar's last public appearance.

---END---

http://rense.com/general72/recoll.htm

[MistahMojoRisin]

THat is all very interesting Jack, never read that before. This adds a lot of questions as to what B.L. was all about.

[ernesto]

From a logical point of view, Just imagine that if these events were true, Bob Lazar should be under terrible presure from goverment agents that would be working to discredit him 24 hours a day with unlimited budget. So under these circumstances any odd behaviour should be consider totally normal, and part of the game being played. On the other hand if he would be a lier, then any odd behaviour should be considered strange and out of place. Therefore my conclusion is that the probabilities may say that was a real case.

Ernesto

[Nanoo Nanoo]

Bit of a Lazar fan. Hes ok in mybook

[Mike Gorman]

Posted by Harley Hawkins (here)

Posted by Maia Gabrial (here)
Remember how Bob Lazar was seriously harassed and made to look like a fool after coming forward with what he saw at Area 51? Remember how they tried to prove he never worked for them, even tried to make his impressive creditials sound phoney?
Don't you think it's odd how quickly they took him back into their fold? I wonder if he's still alive....

Yes, Yes, Yes, and the last I heard Yes.





Just like Henry Deacon (Arthur Neumann).

You remember that Brown USA Passport Henry had at the conference ? Does anyone here know what this type of Passport signifies really...it seemed to quite different to the type issued to Joe & Jane citizen?

[n.cangiano]

i would have to say hes ok in my book. Unless it was an act to make him more believable he has been asked plenty of questions on other stuff that he simply says idk so i cant tell you anything on that. I would think if he was lying he wouldnt have just stuck with one thing. He could have gone on about other things also. Even if he just stated other things he had heard from other people and incorporated it into his own story. I maybe wrong but i think other peoples understanding or knowledge of how the ships work matched B.L. explanation on how they work.

[Skywizard]

[posted by Ernesto]
“From a logical point of view, Just imagine that if these events were true, Bob Lazar should be under terrible pressure from government agents that would be working to discredit him 24 hours a day with an unlimited budget”.

[posted by Jackovesk]
“Most Recent News On Bob Lazar (Click Here)”

Just my option, Ernesto makes a good point and Jack’s (Click Here) site really adds the fuel to it.

I’m not saying Bob’s story is a lie or the truth, but deep down inside I want to think it’s true, I don’t know how to explain, the nature in me just wants to believe it.

Bob Lazar was very brave and courageous for what he did (lie or truth). It took a lot of nerve to expose a secret (or statement) like he did. I really don’t think he was looking for fame and fortune (maybe the reporter was). If this were the truth, I believed he might have thought the out come of this exposure would have been taken differently by the American people (maybe finally discloser). Maybe he didn’t actually realize just how smart and fast the government could make this (and almost him) go away and it sure didn’t take that long… know what I mean.

He actually risked his life to do this (lie or truth) and I’m sure he knew that when he first opened his mouth but still he put it out there… You be the judge.

Good post Ernesto and Jackovesk!

~skywizard

Ps~ just turned it to the Discover Channel and guess who they were talking about?
weellll… shut the front door!!

[idiom]

I tend to lean towards some truth by also listening to those who corroborate with bob's story like John Leer and Boyd Bushman because of the positions they have had in life from a decorated test pilot to a retired senior engineer from skunk works before it was skunk works. The question is "who is credible ?" I would like to know more about this you tube video if anyone has info. Thanks
"Physicist Robert Lazar Sentencing in Nevada court 1990"

[Harley]

Posted by idiom (here)
I tend to lean towards some truth by also listening to those who corroborate with bob's story like John Leer and Boyd Bushman because of the positions they have had in life from a decorated test pilot to a retired senior engineer from skunk works before it was skunk works. The question is "who is credible ?" I would like to know more about this you tube video if anyone has info. Thanks
"Physicist Robert Lazar Sentencing in Nevada court 1990"

Listen closely to the judge.

Also, if you have the time, read some of the viewer's comments.

Example:

I remember seeing this video of yours months ago when I first researched Bob Lazar. It's an incredible document - where did you get hold of this? Kudos! Anyway, it is indeed a strong corroboration of Lazar's story, and the W2 reference is very significant.

I have also seen a strong parallel with the McKinnon case - in both cases they are apparently level-headed "outsiders", supposedly having taken a peek "inside" and willing to report what they saw...

Physicist Robert Lazar Sentencing in Nevada court 1990
https://youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=oV5gOKbakT8

[Skywizard]

Bob Lazar is best known as the whistleblower that outed Area 51 and its extraterrestrial secrets. He claims to have been an employee there tasked with back engineering alien technology. In a recent email from his company, apparently he is now a science and technology consultant to Raytheon, and his company has contracts with the military.
In 1989, KLAS investigative reporter George Knapp conducted an interview that forever changed UFO mythology. This is when he first interviewed Bob Lazar live for his Las Vegas viewers. Lazar claimed to have worked in a secret underground lab called S4, 8 miles south of the main Area 51 base. Here he says there were several disc-shaped craft that looked as though they had been damaged. He says he was told they were extraterrestrial, and he noted that they appeared to be built for pilots that were small and humanoid.
He started telling friends about his work at the base, and even told them where and when they could view test flights. He and his friends were then busted and he was fired. So the story goes. The Air Force denies his claims. However, upon investigation, Knapp found that another top secret facility, Los Alamos National Laboratories (LANL) in New Mexico, had Lazar listed in their phone book. Lazar said he had worked there, but LANL denied that claim.
However, other claims by Lazar did not pan out. He said he received degrees from the California Institute of Technology and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, neither of which can be confirmed.
For a large part of the 90s Lazar’s claims made big news, and became the bedrock for claims of ET technology being horded by the United States government. This has lead to Area 51 getting the legendary status it currently enjoys, although at the same time it remains a top secret facility.



Lazar left the UFO limelight, and has not spoken on the topic for many years. He started a scientific equipment and supply store called United Nuclear. I contacted them to find out if Lazar would be interested in speaking about his experiences, as next year will be the 25th anniversary of his interviewed with Knapp. I was told:
Sorry, Mr. Lazar no longer involves himself in matters related to the topic of UFOs.
He hasn’t followed the topic in about 10 years and does not lecture on anything other than basic science & energy technologies.
His companies are involved in several Military contracts and he is a science & technology consultant to Raytheon weapon systems.
For these reasons he avoids ‘rocking the boat’ and generally keeps his distance from the topic.

Source: http://www.openminds.tv/update-on-ar...ob-lazar-1064/

peace...
skywizard

[ghostrider]

odd enough, when bob came on the scene, nobody was talking about area 51 and ET's ... he was all alone ... in his vhs tapes, ha tells my age, he broke down the science behind how a disk works , and gave all the math behind it on a chalk board ... for us science geeks , it was very interesting, you could ask a science teacher and the theory is easily validated ...