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Thread: Cheating

  1. Link to Post #141
    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    PS- Something I wrote on here earlier has really bothered me. I have openly admitted that I have dared to think about cheating. Please know that I have not even remotely advanced toward that but the gesture has presented itself in my mind and I am being honest. This is not a flippant thing that I just woke up one day and decided to considered. This is are feelings that I have been processing due to lack of intimacy for nearly half of a year. There are physical problems involved that we are facing and I am very empathetic about that. I suppose men do not think to kiss or touch if there is no reward for them in the end. That closeness is the intimacy which I am starving for and no amount of heart to heart talks has managed to make my needs heard.

    Yes I said needs. I realize that now I may seem like the typical American Woman who demands far too much. But if I am being honest, when the emotional needs are not met everything else starts to fall apart as well. It is emotional intimacy that makes me feel worthy and balanced. My other needs are secondary or almost non-existant when I am emotionally healthy. It is a slippery slope that has been allowed to develop over much time. I am talking about a soulful give and take of emotions in a very healthy way in the middle of busy and demanding lives. It almost sounds too good to be true and really selfish as I type this out, but this is an honest discussion and I am trying to figure a few things out myself here as well. I don't want anyone to think bad of me. This is just one woman's perspective here.

    Much Love,
    Julia
    Look everyone thinks about cheating, and doing all sorts of unsavory things, but we are not judged on fleeting impulses but on our actions.
    Besides, I'm one of those "woo, woo" types who thinks there are all sorts non-organic parasitic ghostly vampire types feeding on our energy fields and constantly trying to steer us into what they consider energetic buffets but we would call orgasms with strangers. That part TargeT highlighted in red earlier that he took from my post, we had a poster that used to reside here named Dawn, she would talk about this stuff all the freaking time, and let me tell you, she was right in this stuff.
    This isn't all metaphysical mumbo jumbo to me, I'm convinced these things are real.
    So we are all bombarded by impulses, and some of us act on them.
    I would argue that an instance of cheating when the circumstances are just right and we as mere mortals succumb is no where near as bad as affairs and or relationships where we are deceptive to a much greater degree.
    So my point here is, no one in the least is judging you heretogrow, certainly not me.

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  3. Link to Post #142
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Hym,
    I agree with you and I am ready to accept this challenge. We both are worth it. You nailed the reason I chose to respond on this thread in the first place. I have become more of a lurker than a poster these days, but I learn so much from all of your interesting views. I don't want to cheat myself out of genuine intimacy, which is what I felt with my man before these troubles surfaced. He is old fashioned and I am too so he may be a hard nut to crack. He is the alpha male, strong warrior type and I am the nurturing little woman. I am proud of our roles and make no apologies in todays progressive and ever changing world. But we both need to give each other the space to learn new ways to communicate. I am just as strong and head strong as he is, just sort of the one who buckles first, the more reserved of the two of us. If life is a dance I need to shake things up and take the lead. He will be reluctant to follow at first but maybe after a little bit of help, I can convince him that this is his idea. It will be a lot easier after that.

    Thank you for your observations and sharing. You have been most helpful!
    Much Love,
    Julia
    Last edited by heretogrow; 17th May 2018 at 19:34.

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  5. Link to Post #143
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    Default Re: Cheating

    DNA,
    Thanks, I know I am judging myself. He would never cheat, but he has been cheated on several times in the past. He has deep pain from past relationships. I think much of the pain he went through was because he denies that anything is wrong. It's like he can't face the truth so he re-writes the story. I am really going to work on reaching newer and more honest levels of intimacy. Not in the physical sense because that is out of our control right now. But there are many other ways to show you love someone. I need to get him to open up a lot more.

    I'll make it a priority. We also need to learn to talk to each other better. Some nights we actually revert to screaming and yelling. The elephant in this room has gotten way out of control. I needed all this to really admit what has been going on, before its too late. Oh and add a wife that took off over five years ago and is nowhere to be found to the equation. We should probably face that head on too while we are at it. Now I know why it feels like we have been in a threesome all this time when he says he genuinely loves me not her. Her entangled energetic presence is certainly not helping. Him finding her and finally getting a divorce would be a good place to start. So I am not crazy after all. I have been able to sense another woman. She has just been attached in energetic form. This makes so much sense He is never going to believe this but at least I feel better knowing that what I was feeling was real.

    Much love,
    Julia
    Last edited by heretogrow; 17th May 2018 at 20:10.

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  7. Link to Post #144
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    Default Re: Cheating

    HereToGrow, Me either. No judging, just working it out. It's insightful and empowering.

    DNA, I too have never known those things I see, feel, and hear as anything close to new-agey woowooness, as Dawn didn't either, because their touch and influence was evident from early on. Unlike those 'Seeing' friends of mine I'm not spacey or lost in the ozone, where they end up mistreating their bodies and altering their perceptions instead of jumping in and creating new ones, ones more real than the ones that just float out there, hunting weak and injured humans in their halloween p.j.'s. and batman undies.

    However, it is not easy, yet...., describing the influence of the unseen and the unheard to those that are blind to themselves and their own strengths and abilities. It may not even be worth the effort, or necessary at all, when self-empowerment and inner responsibility create their own viable realities for those who experience them.

    I used to take those sights and sensations as common place, until my seer friends, an american/tibetan monk, a real yogi, and a few like Carlos Castaneda, would walk up to me and remind me that most don't perceive those things we experience as real. Also, I've never seen a psychopath or sociopath without some darkness in their presence, some smell, and something being said to me about it all.

    Those entities, those ghouls, feed off of the insecurities that weaken the will and entice the weakness to grow. They, on the other hand, disappear when the force of will is here and we find cheating takes a flight away from the power of self.
    Last edited by Hym; 17th May 2018 at 20:51.

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  9. Link to Post #145
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    Target,
    It is so confusing. I don't know about you but to me relationships are sacred. They are full of ups and downs and even ugliness at times but they are still sacred.
    I agree, I see it as two becoming one; when I am with them everything is ours and I try to support and assist them as much as I can; but the focus is on us and I thought that was what a relationship was supposed to be.

    Now I am trying to find the root of that feeling as well, why do I think that traditional is best? (obviously there's a bit of experience here on this thread as I've seen it mentioned several times that what my partner is proposing doesn't work... I wonder if it ever does long term, I don't know.) I really like to understand why I'm feeling what I feel, I'd like to think I function from a rational space as often as possible but when it comes to this topic I'm having a hard time bringing emotion and rationality to an agreeable place.

    Is this just a biological drive, to secure a mate and defend them against potential rivals? Monogamy doesn't make sense in a biological survival sense; which seems to rule that out.



    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    I almost feel guilty for posting my thoughts and feelings on this thread but for some reason it is important for me to process all of this. I am not sure I could admit to man that I have thought of cheating to fill this void.
    Well maybe that's a good motivator, unfortunately the one with the need seems to sometimes have to work extra hard to be fully understood.

    I shamefully don't think I fully understood the full meaning of the what our relationship had come to and specifically how it was affecting her until I found out as much as I know now (I'm sure more is coming, she now thinks she needs to protect me from details because I'm behaving much more emotionally than normal and is worried about me,,, but since I have this new lovely little doubt demon in my head... i have a nagging feeling that's not the only motivation and I hope it's just mistrust/betrayal feelings and not intuition). Unfortunately the way I found out was by accident/miscommunication; I had a strong feeling something was off and pressed her for questions about her "wildly inappropriate friend ship" (my label) and she thought I already knew and said something to the effect of "nothing had happened yet" which crushed me at the time because it seems that I found out via accident... now in my perspective it seems like there have been a few such "accidents" that give me more and more of the story... I did say at first that I didn't want to know details, but I've made it clear to day that I need everything so I can put my imagination to rest; I'm probably going to ask uncomfortable questions about their sex episodes as well, if just to see how willing to be open she is. because I need something to start rebuilding trust with, and I feel like it's not clearly being done currently.)


    Anyway, got off in a tangent there... What I meant to say was I think it is worth being ULTRA clear and giving him a chance to fully understand, unfortunately this might take a bit more effort than you would think, it seems partners at times like to stay blissfully ignorant to each others problems, I don't even know if I did it by choice or not; but I did.

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    He does not hear the warning signs or give my feelings any deep amount of thought.
    I didn't either and mine were gigantic neon ones, I think a very serious sit down zero distraction conversation about needs and fulfillment might have worked, but I also think it needs to have a strong backing, something that shows how important this is to you; I don't know if that means telling him you've been having infedelity thoughts or how exactly.. I just wish I had paid attention at the time for her and for me, and the kids, grand kids, horses, dogs etc... we have a messily entangled life.

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    I feel like a terrible person for being so vulnerable to putting my feelings above his.
    I don't know that you are, you need to talk to him and see what his feelings are and if he has a solution perhaps?

    I've definitely learned that communication can always be improved. I'm working on this hour by hour lately.

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    I am good for the moment, but this has plagued our relationship for more than a year now and I don't feel like he has ever seriously considered anything I have been saying. I feel like I should be quiet.
    That's exactly how my partner felt; I feel like this may be a common potentiality of longer term relationships. Maybe we get so used to "you" and "me" being "us", that we forget that the "you" is a very different person still, and that's probably why the "me" liked "you" in the first place.

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    When I post this it makes me feel quite raw, exposed and downright wrong for admitting that I have been thinking this way. The lack of ability to make myself clear is intrinsically part of our problems.
    I would just view your thoughts as a symptom, they are just like pain; you have needs that, well, NEED to be fulfilled in some way... you can't just ignore that stuff, maybe your subconscious is reaching out to the only solution it can see given the current information set (and not good communication)?

    I think the thing that upsets me most is that I feel like she gave up and she did go else where with out ending us first or at least telling up front what was happening... she DID try, but our communication was so poor I just saw it as some weird line of questioning that sprung up because she was hanging out with a threesome of gay men a lot and was fascinated by their tripod (which has since broken up.. didn't last long either). I was probably desperately avoiding the topic due to my own insecurities and I did not pick up on any sense of urgency, plus the thought was repulsive to me at the time and I responded in that way, which I'm sure discouraged further communication.

    I don't like where it took us so i'm taking the china in a bull shop approach to communication now, and yes it's messy, and a bit of a roller coaster; but we are talking and there's been some good things that it seems like we could make of renewed attention on each other.


    Don't give up! I wouldn't even say that giving an ultimatum is a bad idea at this point if that's what it takes to really get his attention; I think that's what you really want anyway

    But then, I'm not so sure I'm the best source of advice on this particular topic.

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Look everyone thinks about cheating, and doing all sorts of unsavory things, but we are not judged on fleeting impulses but on our actions.
    Besides, I'm one of those "woo, woo" types who thinks there are all sorts non-organic parasitic ghostly vampire types feeding on our energy fields and constantly trying to steer us into what they consider energetic buffets but we would call orgasms with strangers. That part TargeT highlighted in red earlier that he took from my post, we had a poster that used to reside here named Dawn, she would talk about this stuff all the freaking time, and let me tell you, she was right in this stuff.
    This isn't all metaphysical mumbo jumbo to me, I'm convinced these things are real.
    So we are all bombarded by impulses, and some of us act on them.
    I would argue that an instance of cheating when the circumstances are just right and we as mere mortals succumb is no where near as bad as affairs and or relationships where we are deceptive to a much greater degree.
    So my point here is, no one in the least is judging you heretogrow, certainly not me.
    I completely agree and this is a big part of my leniency in this.. I set up the circumstances for this to happen, I basically allowed it.

    Through my lack of emotional availability mixed with my EXTREME supportive nature (she said she needed this "friend" to include multi day vacations etc...)I mixed vinegar and baking soda together then was upset when it erupted and now I'm dealing with the mess.

    The concept of Archons freaks her out when I tell her, but I'm very convinced the mind flyers or weitigo or what ever has a high probability of being real (lots of hedging there.. haha). I've seen too many strange things, and experienced the weird impulses when under heavy influence of emotion to not think there's some outside influence somehow.

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    So I am not crazy after all. I have been able to sense another woman. She has just been attached in energetic form. This makes so much sense He is never going to believe this but at least I feel better knowing that what I was feeling was real.

    Much love,
    Julia
    This is how I found out about her "other"... I could FEEL the wrongness, the intrusion... I'm trying to get her to admit when the first time was because I have a strong feeling I already knew.. that's what made me press a line of questioning that I normally would feel ridiculous in our relationship.

    This idea is also really making me more hesitant about exporing a poly anything... I don't like this other guy; I can see why she does but I don't get a good feeling from himi and our kids didn't like him either (yea, I actually had dinner with this guy; I even had a strong feelign that night that I was seeing something bad... but I was not able to put it all together and act accordingly... I let it continue because I'm non confrontational and she said she needed it).
    Last edited by TargeT; 17th May 2018 at 20:27.
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    Default Re: Cheating

    If there is no emotional connection, you are not cheating on a mate, you are stepping out on a roommate. It's not necessarily either partner's fault.

    Something that has always driven me batty are those (usually women) who have lost interest in sex altogether and then morally harangue their partner as a 'cheater,' when he finds a girlfriend.

    And any man who refuses to cuddle his physically ill wife, kiss her, hug her, shouldn't feel surprised if she finds someone who will.

    Seriously, people need to get past themselves on this issue and figure out what makes the most sense. As we age we have to take a good look at hormonal changes and how they affect personality, spirituality, sexuality. Women can't help menopause and a plummeting libido but men shouldn't have to hang it up at that point too, if it's essential to their well being.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    So true AutumnW.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by heretogrow (here)
    DNA,
    Thanks, I know I am judging myself. He would never cheat, but he has been cheated on several times in the past. He has deep pain from past relationships. I think much of the pain he went through was because he denies that anything is wrong. It's like he can't face the truth so he re-writes the story. I am really going to work on reaching newer and more honest levels of intimacy. Not in the physical sense because that is out of our control right now. But there are many other ways to show you love someone. I need to get him to open up a lot more.

    I'll make it a priority. We also need to learn to talk to each other better. Some nights we actually revert to screaming and yelling. The elephant in this room has gotten way out of control. I needed all this to really admit what has been going on, before its too late. Oh and add a wife that took off over five years ago and is nowhere to be found to the equation. We should probably face that head on too while we are at it. Now I know why it feels like we have been in a threesome all this time when he says he genuinely loves me not her. Her entangled energetic presence is certainly not helping. Him finding her and finally getting a divorce would be a good place to start. So I am not crazy after all. I have been able to sense another woman. She has just been attached in energetic form. This makes so much sense He is never going to believe this but at least I feel better knowing that what I was feeling was real.

    Much love,
    Julia
    Julia,

    Do you have children with this man?

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Target, the intimacy you shared with your wife has been damaged. This is what you are 'feeling,' IMHO. You are using reason in an attempt to figure out the irrational -- and by that I mean the arena of the heart.

    If there is the tiniest underlying asymmetry, in terms of power, measured in attractiveness, etc...you will be feeling a twinge about that too.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Autumn,
    We do not have children together. He cannot have them. But I have three children, two grown and one in middle school. I had her at 40 and her father left before she was born. He considers her his own child and he is very proud of her. This has fulfilled a lifelong purpose in his life as he always wanted many kids. He wanted a whole football team he jokes. Now he realizes raising an adolescent girl can be just as challenging and rewarding.

    Julia

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    Hi TargeT, I feel for you bro. But on the other hand I gotta say F that.
    In the midst of your amazing bravery in admitting your situation I will respond in brutal honesty.
    One should avoid dating American women especially when looking at having children and getting married. And when dating American women one should understand that through years of Hollywood programming and talk show enabling, American women have come to the conclusion that they are entitled to constant "passion".
    When referencing Aristotle's four types of love we have Philia (Brotherly Love, Freindship Love), Storge (Family love, Parent Child Love) Agape (unconditional god type love) and Eros (romantic love).
    Many relationships start out with an intense Eros that can not be sustained, and this will hopefully transform into a type of Philia or Storge or even Agape.
    But even if that is the case the world is full of unrealistic mother ######"s who think they deserve to be basked in "EROS" now and forever. Most of these folks have been programmed by Hollywood, Sally Jesse Rapheal and Oprah Winfrey. There is an unrealistic entitlement thing going on here, and right now American women are front and center for thinking they gotta get theirs. In my opinion this is some Tavistock Institute/George Soros sh!t that has been in place for a while to help destroy the American Family and women have been the main target.

    If your wife is presently engaged in this paradigm my advice would be "to get the f#ck" out of there.

    DNA, you amused me with this tirade against American women. Maybe some of us don't watch t.v.
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Women can't help menopause .
    Ironically I'm pretty sure she's early stage menopause, well she was convinced before me, but it seems like it.. .shortened cycles etc... I think she maybe having a bit of a midlife crisis and is feeling her mortality... I also feel like i'm giving a lot of excuses Justifications for her; I guess because she was not able to present her side so I know this is a bit biased most likely.

    Hope she's ready for when I have mine, should be milder though; I'm not a passionate Leo type.
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Heretogrow,

    Thanks for response. And you have been together less than five years. Just trying to get a fix on your situation. And, if I understand, HE has the physical problem, not you.

    You are experiencing lack of tactile reinforcement. Touch helps to assure us that we are held in high regard by partner, that we are loved. It is a basic relationship need, not frivolous icing on a cake.

    If a person is self contained and not tactile, they will always default to their basic nature. An embrace from someone who is acting outside of spontaneity might feel very awkward for him and weird and off putting to you.

    When we are told we are loved but some element of that love is missing it creates cognitive dissonance. We THINK, "he loves me." We FEEL, "he doesn't love me."
    Last edited by AutumnW; 17th May 2018 at 21:58.

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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    Women can't help menopause .
    Ironically I'm pretty sure she's early stage menopause, well she was convinced before me, but it seems like it.. .shortened cycles etc... I think she maybe having a bit of a midlife crisis and is feeling her mortality... I also feel like i'm giving a lot of excuses Justifications for her; I guess because she was not able to present her side so I know this is a bit biased most likely.

    Hope she's ready for when I have mine, should be milder though; I'm not a passionate Leo type.
    If that's the case, she must be really HOT. And I mean, throw the covers off, perspiring hot!

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    Default Re: Cheating

    T, there's so much I'd like to say. And yet it is such a personal matter that each relationship has different dynamics.

    There is a way to handle this situation but it requires understanding interpersonal relationship dynamics. Certain methods can be used, depending on circumstances, to elicit the desired result. The very first understanding is to release all expectations, which kinda gets in the way of the desired result. The second is to work on yourself. It is the only part you control, so it is very much worth the attention. I know it sounds simplistic but if you reread the first point, to release expectations, there is a secret hidden there. To release yourself of the burden of a desired result, depending on circumstance, frees you to choose. That is the point of action. That is the method.

    Relationships are like energy converters. Tweak the energy over here and the entire dynamic shifts. Radical progress can be achieved! It only takes no expectations and knowing what you want, but no punches pulled, no easy road taken.

    This is a crazy post.

    Stay strong, brother. I feel ya.
    Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water...Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. Bruce Lee

    Free will can only be as free as the mind that conceives it.

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  31. Link to Post #156
    Avalon Member Flash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by AutumnW (here)
    If there is no emotional connection, you are not cheating on a mate, you are stepping out on a roommate. It's not necessarily either partner's fault.

    Something that has always driven me batty are those (usually women) who have lost interest in sex altogether and then morally harangue their partner as a 'cheater,' when he finds a girlfriend.

    And any man who refuses to cuddle his physically ill wife, kiss her, hug her, shouldn't feel surprised if she finds someone who will.

    Seriously, people need to get past themselves on this issue and figure out what makes the most sense. As we age we have to take a good look at hormonal changes and how they affect personality, spirituality, sexuality. Women can't help menopause and a plummeting libido but men shouldn't have to hang it up at that point too, if it's essential to their well being.
    Not all woman have a decreased libido as they age. In fact, I also have seen the reverse: no more children to take care of, more time on one's hand, libido goes to the roof.

    Also, woman who take hormones usually keep a quite active libido, if they had it to start with.

    However, I have seen so many women soooo disappointed by men and their demands for physical contact without taking into account the emotional intimacy that women had enough, it cuts their sexual desire altogether. But, give them a loving, sensitive and able men, and libido strikes back with a revenge.

    Also, as men grow older, many cannot get it up anylonger. And they expect the woman to be responsible for stimulating them, hence the 35 years old desired when they are 65. Well, a little lesson, they won't be able to supply anyhow lol if they could not to start with. Decreased testosterone happens to male too, and hormonal replacement could be helpful as well, but no, the blue pill is the only thing they think of -

    One thing that did not surprised me, because it is regular and somewhat disappointing, is when Target talks of the beautiful body of his wife. Well, this is almost always the first attraction for a man, and then the deeper emotional and spiritual intimacy is somewhat put aside.

    Real invovement has not much to do with the body, in my views. Once there is strong love and intimacy, body appearance is kind of forgotten (beautiful or not, it does not matter anymore) and the other is truly enjoyed for all he/she is, in all aspects. My opinion. This is often put aside by men, to the upmost frustration of women. my opinion once again.

    Chosing a mate has much more to do with his/her inner workings than the outer shell, and it makes for longer standing and more fulfilling relations. But once again, I am not the paramount success in couple relations, so, it may be only wishful unrealistic wishes from me.
    Last edited by Flash; 17th May 2018 at 22:45.
    How to let the desire of your mind become the desire of your heart - Gurdjieff

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  33. Link to Post #157
    Avalon Member Hym's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Nothing but learning going on here with what we're sharing. Carry on. There might/should be a new thread about the subject I'm going to bring up here, as I haven't found one on Avalon yet, but I do bring it up because few of us men have the understanding that we should have about it.. I'd rather a woman deliver this information, so please share your knowledge and experiences.

    For those men with partners coming upon perimenopause and then menopause, with a wide variance in duration until post menopause, there are some major understandings that should be looked into together with your mate. Most men are clueless about this stage in women's lives and they should be more informed about those things that they can and cannot help with. It can be a full life for a couple if they enter this time prepared to deal and adapt with the changes at hand.

    These include understanding the hormonal changes occurring and the mood swings that result from a dramatic change in a woman's chemistry. Healthy diet, focused on quality phytoestrogens, omega 3 and 7 oils, bio-identicals, herbs-quite a few are helpful, exercise, and emotional support, support defined mainly by her needs are all helpful things to have available.

    There are also some simple acupressure and massage techniques that provide relief. Amongst those, using the fingertips of the right hand to press CV 6, along the Conception Vessel-The Sea of Energy Center, 2 finger widths below the navel, while slowly inhaling and exhaling activates the central channel of the body's systems in order to deal with those many changes that menopause brings. In concert with this, at the same waist level on the back, fingertip touch between the vertebrae along the Governing Vessel, GV 4.

    There are other points, Heart 1 along the inside of the upper arm just below the crease of the chest, and the place called the Sea of Tranquility along CV, CV 17, approximately at the height of the nipples above the sternum, a place to be treated with sensitivity....all to be held and balanced by the energy coming thru your touch. (I was once given a rare acupuncture treatment by someone who was supposed to know better than to needle CV 17 and my body rejected it by forcefully pushing it out on it's own, far across the room.)

    Hormones and Understanding...

    I asked a transgender acquaintance, a decades long aerospace engineer, recently how his/her hormone therapy was going and was told that he stopped it because he didn't want to be found wandering the streets like some older woman who had lost her mind. The things women experience with all of the hormones that they have in their lives is a life most men cannot fathom, at least until they serve a partner during some of those stages. Even then.....
    Last edited by Hym; 18th May 2018 at 00:26.

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    United States Avalon Member Valerie Villars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Target, it's about a higher love. What do you aspire to? Really think about it and then move that way; whatever way that is. Much love on your journey.
    "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with someone when we are uncool." From the movie "Almost Famous""l "Let yourself stand cool and composed before a million universes." Walt Whitman

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    United States Avalon Member DNA's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    Quote Posted by Valerie Villars (here)
    DNA, you amused me with this tirade against American women. Maybe some of us don't watch t.v.
    Hey, there are always exceptions to the rule, but as far as I can tell those are indeed the exceptions.
    Americans in general are rather brain washed, I suppose I could amend what I'm saying, but as far as I can tell, men are being told if it requires you to be cuckolded in order to satisfy your woman so be it. American men are loaded with quite unrealistic expectations when it comes to acquiescing to spoken and unspoken demands.
    I say screw that.
    American women are the hardest women in the world when it comes to unrealistic expectations demanded to maintain their happiness.
    I recognized this in my early twenties and made the conscious decision to never marry an American woman.
    Again I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but as far as I'm concerned the rule still stands.

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    United States Avalon Member heretogrow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cheating

    I am not from a very progressive area of the US. We live close to many Amish and Mennonite where the women are very submissive in their relationships. While I am neither our social ways are very old fashioned and centered around family and self-sustainability to a point, and the land that we live on. Our calendar revolves around what needs planting, harvesting and the work that needs done to get there.

    I believe women are just as intelligent and of equal value to their male counterparts, but I acknowledge that there are some things males are more proficient at because of their bodily strength. Especially around here where agriculture is the most prominent career. Coming to my area would be like stepping back one hundred years in time compared to New York City. There are no street lights or stoplights on many of these country roads! To get cell service you have to drive twenty miles to the next town. When the electricity goes out you run the generator till the gas runs out and then light the fireplace for heat until it is repaired.

    So I am not your typical, demanding American woman. LOL! I am currently learning to drive the tractor so I can plant my own flower and herb beds. I don't have my nails done, I cut and color (shhh) my own hair and make my own noodles. Women are a different breed here but we are treasured and appreciated for the most part. I don't know if I would say that the men would admit that we are equal because they still take the protective provider stance here and take much pride in doing that well. But we are the heart and soul of the family. This is how we have lived our lives. Many women here work and many single mothers do it all. But it is much easier if you have a partner to share in the journey.

    So basically I guess you could say we don't have time to sit and think about our demands. We live in an area where everyone has to pull their weight. We don't have the luxury of feeling entitled because we know our roles and we get r done. I suppose my feminist friends on here have there heads rolling.

    What I do believe is the men in my area need to work on emotions, especially the older men over fifty. They need to be taught to communicate in ways that make women feel special. Affairs are rampant here and I believe it has much to do with our men's tough outer shell and our cultural roles which have been challenged very little. Sex is considered a private subject between couples. And intimacy is not generally discussed except in hushed tones among the women who are complaining. It truly is strange when compared to the way Hollywood depicts women. The women around here a not really like that. There is a sisterhood amongst us though. It is far easier to whine a little and get tips from your friends to let off steam than it is to get your man to have a deep understanding of what is going on.

    And we all secretly have our little gadgets and toys. That is not the solution. We delight at going to the parties and our guys joke about what on earth we are going to subject them to next. We pass around our tantric books and swap recipes for herbal lubes. We get by together with a sense of humor. But I am seeing that the men around here have a great deal to learn especially after listening to Hym talk. Even if you offered a course on how to treat a woman, the men around here would never attend. They would complain about us demanding American women. LOL

    Sorry,I am mostly just venting, and trying to show the cultural component to my dilemma.

    Julia

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