Secrets of the Titanic ~ On the 100 Year Anniversary

[giovonni]

Titanic discoverer says ship’s wreckage site being destroyed by tourists; how he plans to save it...

The man who first discovered the Titanic wreckage says tourists visiting the site are destroying the remains of the ship's hull.

"They are loving the Titanic to death," oceanographer Robert Ballard said during an interview with Stephen Colbert.

Ballard is using the 100th anniversary of the ship's sinking to bring attention to what he says is the unnecessary destruction of the historic site...

Read more with short interview video - http://news.yahoo.com/titanic-discov...o-save-it.html

___________________________________

'Secrets of the Titanic'

The National Geographic Original Special:

Join Dr. Robert Ballard on the 20th century's most celebrated underwater discovery - the RMS Titanic

Please note ~ there is a special epilogue interview with Robert Ballard at the end.

running time 108:16

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=9gjk1DnexKQ

https://youtube.com/watch?v=9gjk1DnexKQ
.

[crosby]

thank you giovanni. as the final resting place for so many souls, i think it should be left to rest in total peace. i hope more efforts are afforded to preserve this sanctuary.
warmest, corson

[giovonni]

From BBC

14 April 2012

Titanic tragedy remembered in special events



The 100th anniversary of the sinking of the Titanic is being remembered at events across the world,
including in the ship's birthplace Belfast...
Read more - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-17715345

[gripreaper]

you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

[giovonni]

Posted by gripreaper (here)
you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

That's what some say...?

And note - this post thread was really only conceived to commemorate the one hundredth anniversary of this much herald and romanticized human story... Though whatever really happen back then and for whatever the reasons... It was not my intent to speculate upon and interpret here with my own personal opinion...

But perhaps if it allows other here - the opportunity to reexamine the (so called) facts of the official story into why this very tragic and strange maritime event occurred...?

Then so be it !

Why They Sank The Titanic

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=McGfcdI8Qv0

[Operator]

Posted by giovonni (here)

Posted by gripreaper (here)
you mean the RMS Olympic, right?

That's what some say...?

And note - this post thread was really only conceived to commemorate the one hundredth anniversary of this much herald and romanticized human story... Though whatever really happen back then and for whatever the reasons... It was not my intent to speculate upon and interpret here with my own personal opinion...

But perhaps if it allows other here - the opportunity to reexamine the (so called) facts of the official story into why this very tragic and strange maritime event occurred...?

Then so be it !

Well it would fit here ... the title of the thread promises "Secrets of the Titanic" ...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=II-JVcaW0O0

This looks like a serious documentary to me ... mentioned facts should be checked.
But they sound plausible and not ridiculous at all given the world we live in.

[Cidersomerset]

Ship Lost Place .................... Year ................. Fatalities

Canadian ................MidAtlantic .......... 1863 ...... 45
Immigrant ship ..........Off Cape Race ..... 1864 . .. 158
Vicksburg .................Off Cape Race .... 1869 ..... . 65
Warrior ....................Grand Banks ...... 1878 ...... . 29
North Star ...............Cabot Straits ...... 1881 ....... 67
Medway ..................Off Newfondland . 1887 ....... 29
Valliant ...................Grand Banks ....... 1897 ....... 70
Snowbird ................Cape Race ......... 1898 ......... 6
Endymion ................Grand Banks ....... 1900 ........ 8
Islander ..................Off Alaska .......... 1901 ....... 67
Albatross ................Mid Atlantic .. . ... 1903 ....... 24


Titanic ..............Mid Atlantic.............. 1912 .... 1234 Wiki says( 1514)

The figure in the website seems low....


http://www.webtitanic.net/frameice.html

There have been loads of theories connected with Bankers & Ship owners
for the sinking of the Titanic , I was wondering how common it was for
ships to be sunk by Ice bergs in the period and the answer considering
all the shipping was very few....and only two in mid Atlanic before her...

One theory is that the Captain was so confident of not sinking he and
the crew were neglegent and were going to fast to try and break the
record for a Atlantic crossing....

Its like 9/11 and all the other scams in history something just does
not feel right ....

Rest in piece all the victims of the incompatence/arragance or criminality
of not having sufficiant life craft or survival stratagy if disaster struck..

[Cidersomerset]

Interresting post Operator, It would not surprise me and these scams have always gone
on and still do witness 9/11 .....

Bloody 'Ell I wish I did not start watching this.....Its well constructed and plausible and explains
a lot of the percieved incompetence of the captain and crew .....If they expected to be saved by
The California then it makes more sence !!!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=EmVPS3l7llI

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iDxcjVXGhcM

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=B0ybLmJURYU

Had enough for tonight time for bed ...........Insurance scam just like part of 9/11

==============================================================

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=PaxTr1e4lqk

These Frauds are deffinatly possible , Its common knowledge Buisnessmen are ruthless
in the cut throat world they manipulate.....Some might do anything ????

[KiwiElf]

History repeats itself...

The History Channel on SKY in NZ is currently running several different documentaries on the TITANIC. Interesting stuff. Particularly the theory of cold air mirages over the sea at the time, a real but rare weather event.

Like driving your car on a "strangely foggy", dark night and no street lights, only your parking lights on and mirages distorting your field of view (or driving very drunk/stoned etc) and using only your handbrake to stop. Your (distorted) perceptions of what is in front of you is still very "real". Even a speed of 15 mph is too fast. Your eyes and your senses are deceiving you. Likewise, the TITANIC was clearly exceeding it's safe ability to stop or veer away from an obstacle given the conditions.

Maybe it was just a tragic "accident" with flawed human egos being the cause or maybe there was more to it?

IF... we also consider the recent theory that TITANIC was deliberately sunk to get rid of over 600 Financiers and bankers aboard who were opposed to the Fed banking system, then a collision was guaranteed (without having to deliberately ram an iceburg). The strange weather conditions only adding to the risk. The financiers were of course, all men. Their demise was also then virtually guaranteed due to the lack of lifeboats. But Ismay, the ship's owner, got off with the women and children in what appeared to be a complete act of despicable cowardice. An unwitting pawn?

Hypothetically, all was needed was some "gentle persuasion" from Ismay to Captain Smith to "break a record" to complete the disaster, regardless of the intent. After all, she was unsinkable! Doesn't take much to change future events in a massive way, does it?

The events surrounding the recent sinking of the Concordia are similar (and synchronistic considering the timing) if one considers both Captains were just being "reckless". The outcomes however, were (thank god) quite different. We can choose to see this 100-year event as "lessons unlearned", Murphy's Law etc - whatever the reasons or circumstances. The "lessons" have been improved upon, but still not fully learned - a human flaw and/or deliberate intent?

Like other current events, many pieces and layers to this jigsaw puzzle.

(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe Great post btw!

[Operator]

Summary of the documentary that I posted:

- the Olympic was an exact copy (twin ship) of the Titanic (only a few minor differences in some details)
- the Olympic was in use before the Titanic
- the Olympic got seriously damaged which economically 'crippled' her for life
- the Olympic could not be insured because of her condition
- a plan was designed to sink her under the name of Titanic (which could still be insured)
- Olympic and Titanic were swapped in a weekend while they were both in dock
- a ship like Olympic/Titanic could have easily avoid a collision within the warning time
- there was a mix up with ships in the area and the rescue backup failed to assist, the disaster
was bigger than planned ...

According the documentary the headline was to get the money back through insurance. Taking some particular
bankers down with it could be a convenient circumstance but was not the main reason.

The documentary backs up many claims they make ... they must be double checked but a solid lead to further
investigation I should say.

Just recently there was some interesting developments regarding the Titanic:

Titanic wreckage to be protected under UNESCO convention
5 April 2012 –
The wreckage of the passenger liner Titanic will now be protected by a United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO)
convention that seeks to safeguard wrecks, sites, decorated caves and other cultural relics underwater.

Article here ... un.org

So is seems they don't want too many nosy people down there. Suspicious ?

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe Great post btw!

(psssst - fixed - only mods can edit thread titles - thanks for noticing.)

[KiwiElf]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by KiwiElf (here)
(Psssst Giovonni - please fix spelling of "TITANIC" in your header hehe Great post btw!

(psssst - fixed - only mods can edit thread titles - thanks for noticing.)

*psssst - thanks Paul! (My baddd - Sorry, I didn't know). Headlines are important or I wouldn't have worried *

[Cidersomerset]

East Cowes
R.M.S. Olympic
Wednesday 20th September 1911

A collision occurred off Cowes between R.M.S. Olympic and the Royal Navy first class cruiser H.M.S. Hawke.

The Olympic left Southampton at 11.25 with 1313 passengers onboard and slowly made her way down Southampton Water it was only on the liners fifth crossing to New York since her maiden voyage on the 14th June.



Picture of RMS Olympic


People were lining the front at Cowes to watch the great liner, which was capable of carrying some 3,000 passengers, and crew slowly come down Southampton Water then rounding Bramble Buoy [12.43 pm] to head eastwards down the Solent and the speed was increased to 16 knots. At the same time coming up the Solent from the Needles at speed, but some distance behind, was the cruiser HMS Hawke; the cruiser had been on sea trials and was returning to Portsmouth.
The event

The weather was squally and rain was falling as the Hawke quickly drew level on the starboard side of the Olympic near the Prince Consort Shoal Buoy, the two ships then sailed together for a short while; the time was almost 1.00 pm. The Hawke appeared to slow to allow the Olympic to move ahead then veered to the port in order to pass under the liners stern, the move resulted in the cruiser hitting the liner some 50 feet from her stern. The liner was holed and flooding occurred in two compartments, the cruiser suffered major damaged to its bow. From the shore people could see the two ships locked together with the Hawke’s bow embedded in the stern of the Olympic. For what seemed an eternity the two ships were locked together, bulkheads in both ships were closed and there was no threat of sinking, then the Hawke went astern and the extent of damage to both ships could be seen. There was a 15 ft gash tapering below the water at the stern of the Olympic, and the bow of Hawke was severally damaged.

The two Cowes tugs Irishman and Malta sailed out to render any assistance to the liner they could as she appeared to drift towards Osborne Bay, however the ship was able to turn and steam back into Cowes Roads under her own steam and anchor. The liner remained at anchor that night and was a spectacle with all her lights ablaze, the liners stern was down by several feet and the ships pumps were kept working to kept the water from rising.

News of the collision had been reported to the navel authorities at Portsmouth and the support vessels Volcano and Grappler both fitted with powerful pumps were dispatched to render assistant. The Hawke was surrounded with collision mats and must have taken on a lot of water in the forward compartments, but the bulkhead held. The cruiser was able to make slow progress up the Solent to Portsmouth Dockyard with both tugs in attendance.
After the event

Whilst the Olympic was anchored in Cowes Roads the captain issued orders that, no one was to leave or board the ship except officials of the White Star Line. However one enterprising American in a hurry to get back to America, lower a rope through one of the portholes and hailed a passing boatman, climbing down the rope he was taken ashore, and caught the steamer back to Southampton.

In the evening the Southampton and IW. passenger steamer Duchess of York came alongside and took off around 100 passengers off who were in a hurry to get to London. When the passengers finally returned to Southampton they all spoke highly of the events and organisation that occurred after the collision.

A passenger on the liner described how he was on deck and saw the collision unfold, the cruiser was running parallel to the liner on the starboard side, a little too close he thought, and appeared to be trying to pass astern of the Olympic but was to close to make the manoeuvre, and the bow of the cruiser plunged into the stern of the liner.
Return to Southampton

At 8.30 am the following morning Olympic weighed anchor and was towed back to Southampton by five tugs. Getting the liner back to Southampton took upwards of 3 hours as the ship was carrying almost 40 ft of water in her damaged compartments At the time of the collision there were 365 first class, 360 second class and 614 third class passengers onboard and the crew number approximately 870. The liner was due to call at Cherbourg and Queenstown and collect more passengers her final complement would have been almost 3000 people.

When Olympic docked in Southampton the full impact of the collision could be seen, there was a jagged triangular hole some 15ft by 10 ft just forward of the rudder, and the plating had been forced inward some 5 to 6 ft. It was reported that the more serious damage was below the waterline but no detail are quoted. Arrangements were made for passengers who wanted to continue their journey by transferring other liners and for other; a special train was laid on to take them to London.

Olympic was towed back to Harland and Wolfe in Belfast for repairs and in order to get the ship back into service e a quick as possible the twisted propeller shaft was replace by one from Titanic which was being built in the same yard.
HMS Hawke
Picture of HMS Hawke


When HMS Hawke was examined in the dockyard the full extent of the damage could be seen; the bow completed smashed and forced round to starboard, a complete new front section would be needed before the ship could sail again. When reporters interviewed Hawke crewmembers they could give no reason why the ship suddenly changed course, and the said they were taken by surprise when the two ships collided, all they heard was the ship telegraph signal to the engine room to stop engines, followed “reverse engines”. They stated that the cause of the collision would have to be established by a court of inquiry at a future date.
The Inquiry

The inquiry later found that the Olympic was going too fast [16 Knots] for the conditions and her wash sucked the smaller ship in, causing the collision.
Picture of collision damage
Collision Damage





RMS. Olympics Statistics
Owner:- White Star Line’
Builder:- Harland and Wolff, Belfast
Class:- Olympic class ocean liners
Launched:- 20th October 1910
Completed:- 31st May 1911
Maiden voyage:- 14th June 1911
Tonnage:- 45,324 tons
Displacement:- 52,067 tons
Installed power:- 24 double-ended [6 furnace] and 5 single ended [3 furnace] Scotch boilers. Two four-cylinder triple expansion reciprocating engines, each producing 15,000 hp for two outboard wing propellers at 75 revolutions per minute. One low pressure turbine producing 16,000 hp. A total of 59,000 hp could be produced at maximum revolutions.
This new design layout was more efficient consuming only 650 tons/hr against the previous 1000 tons/hr.
Propulsion:- Two bronze triple blade wing propellers and one bronze quadruple blade centre propeller.
Speed [normal]:- 21 Knots [24 mph]. Note did achieve over 22 knots on a voyage from New York to Southampton.
Service history:- Saw service in the First World War, including ramming and sinking U-boat No. U-103.
The end:- With the merger of White Star and Cunard in 1934 there was now surplus of ships and with Olympics becoming expensive to run a decision was taken to withdraw the ship from service. In 1935 the ship was sold for £100,000 and taken to Jarrow for scraping, what remained of the ship was finally taken to Inverkeithing, Scotland in 1937, to be broken up, the end of a great ship.





HMS. Hawke Statistics
Built:- Chatham Dockyards 1891
Type:- First-class, tw in-screw protected cruiser
Weight:- 7,350 tons
Size:- Length 360 ft, Width 60 ft, Draught 24 ft.
Speed:- 20 Knots.
Range:- 10,000 miles.
Crew:- 544.
Cost:- £400,702.
Sunk:- 15th October 1914. By a German submarine.

Editors note:- It is reported that the clock from the grand staircase in the Olympic is in the Southampton Maritime Museum.

Titanic and Olympic side by side Befast Docks..

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

The Olympic keel plate number was 400, Titanic's 401. I'm sure that the Olympic conspiracy theory was disproved some time ago when the number 401 was finally found on the keel plate of the wreck, finally putting that theory to bed. It was definitely Titanic that sank.

[Cidersomerset]

Real photo or fake ???

Reported name plate on the wreck of the 'Titanic' after the rivots on the Iron lettering
had eroded leaving a M & P visible from the original..Olympic ....8 mins into pt.5 below
they explain some of the annomalies on the wreck ....

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=B0ybLmJURYU

Five days after the sinking Lloyds paid out $12,500 000 insurance money to white star line..

So motive for a fraud like this is perfectly feasible in the minds of the filthy rich and powerfull !!

[giovonni]

It is with my utmost appreciation, that i extent my heartfelt thanks to all my fellow members who have contributed here. Who have respectively demonstrated consciously and unselfishly (in unison) as in how this forum can really vibrate and function in attempting to find all the possible variables into seeking and finding the so called secrets of the Titanic.

And i am now beginning to wonder... in that perhaps we all unconsciously acted together in creating this thread...

[giovonni]

Here's some more entertainment for ya

From The Smithsonian channel

Video Descriptive:

Published on Mar 26, 2012 by smithsonianchannel

Navigate the tricky waters of reality and fiction in the Oscar-winning blockbuster "Titanic."

note click through to youtube to see the film:
(running time 53:39)

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZmhGx18jvv4

https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZmhGx18jvv4

[observer]

Here's another one to add to the list of conspiracies, giovonni.

In the five part documentary, "Why They Sank the Titanic", posted by Operator in comment #6, and reposted several times throughout this thread by other members, it clearly states that J.P. Morgan was suppose to be a passenger on the voyage. It even reveals that Morgan had some valuable statues removed from the hold the day before departure.

There was an even greater reason to sink this ship beyond insurance fraud. Some of the passengers who went-down were vehemently opposed to the Federal Reserve System, a very special project for J.P. Morgan.

By killing-off Benjamin Guggenhim, Isa Strauss, and Jacob Astor, the fate of the newly proposed Federal Reserve System was sealed. This Federal Reserve Act was the pivotal point that triggered the impending current down-fall of the United States:
http://conspiracytheories.lcc.gatech...ing_Conspiracy


It just goes to show how all this information has taken one hundred years to surface.

I wonder what new revelations we will learn about the Kennedy affair fifty years from now?

[giovonni]

Posted by observer (here)
Here's another one to add to the list of conspiracies, giovonni.

In the five part documentary, "Why They Sank the Titanic", posted by Operator in comment #6, and reposted several times throughout this thread by other members, it clearly states that J.P. Morgan was suppose to be a passenger on the voyage. It even reveals that Morgan had some valuable statues removed from the hold the day before departure.

There was an even greater reason to sink this ship beyond insurance fraud. Some of the passengers who went-down were vehemently opposed to the Federal Reserve System, a very special project for J.P. Morgan.

By killing-off Benjamin Guggenhim, Isa Strauss, and Jacob Astor, the fate of the newly proposed Federal Reserve System was sealed. This Federal Reserve Act was the pivotal point that triggered the impending current down-fall of the United States:
http://conspiracytheories.lcc.gatech...ing_Conspiracy


It just goes to show how all this information has taken one hundred years to surface.

I wonder what new revelations we will learn about the Kennedy affair fifty years from now?

i thinketh you hit the nail right through that grisly old nose of the infamous banking pirate !

Here's a tidbit about that nasty old fart ~

"The photograph that's become the defining image of 19th-century financial titan JP Morgan makes him look almost a caricature of a hard-hearted robber-baron. As Smithsonian magazine explains, part of the reason is simple: After the young photographer shot a photo of Morgan in his usual pose, he had the nerve to ask the busy man to shift position for another. Morgan complied, but became clearly aggravated.

“His expression had sharpened and his body posture became tense,” recalled Edward Steichen in his autobiography. “I saw that a dynamic self-assertion had taken place.” Steichen quickly took the photo, and Morgan hated the result—he tore up the proof then tried unsuccessfully to buy the print. Steichen always denied touching up the image to accentuate the negative (including an optical illusion that makes Morgan look like he's holding a dagger in his left hand). His backers say it's simply an example of what every good photographer strives to do: reveal character."
source: http://www.newser.com/story/108568/w...s-so-mean.html
as the saying goes ~ the camera never lies

[KiwiElf]

Thanks for adding these "J.P. Morgan" comments (which I should have included in my earlier Post).

Although I stated (Bruce) Ismay was the "owner," he actually represented the White Star Line.
Who owned White Star? J.P. Morgan - who purportedly INVITED the banker/financiers aboard as guests with the deliberate intent of sinking the TITANIC, as above.