Are we ready?

[RMorgan]

Hey folks,

I was wondering here...

What do you think would happen if we remove the police from the streets?

What do you think would happen if we remove the certainty of being legally punished for doing something against the common welfare?

I´m asking that because all of us are, on different levels, addicted to blame the government/the system/ for our current conditions but, if we analyze the above questions carefully, would we be capable of controlling our social behavior without the supervision of a superior common authority?

So, are we able to control our primitive and neurotic impulses without the fear of punishment?

Personally, I think it would be chaos. People would commit more crimes than ever.

How are we supposed to socially/collectively evolve, if we still can´t control our destructive impulses?

Idealistically, if people could simply voluntarily follow the natural rule of mutual respect, we wouldn´t need law enforcement authorities, but, is this scenario really possible?

Are we violent by nature or we are conditioned to be violent?

I know...These are very old and hard questions, but I´m very interested in listening to your points of view and developing an intelligent debate about it.

So, are we ready for living an idealistic model of society? Are we ready for peace?

Cheers,

Raf.

[Kindred]

WE Won't be 'removing' the police...

I Strongly feel that They Themselves, Once they Understand (and get the 'Wake Up Call'), will Remove Themselves. This will be a Universal Awakening...

THIS is My Hope... and what I Feel in my Heart.

In Unity, Peace and LOVE

[SilentFeathers]

There would be total chaos in my opinion, relating to my thread I just started about "odd and strange behavior", there is just too much insanity.....the social grids will break down either way soon no matter what happens.......sadly, the spirit and common sense has been knocked out of the large majority of humanity in my opinion.

People are under the illusion that the police and/or government is the glue that holds everything together when actually it is the people themselves that are the glue......this way of thinking and believing in such an illusion is bound to erupt in chaos sooner or later.

Keep your eyes peeled! the show is about to begin!

[RMorgan]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
There would be total chaos in my opinion, relating to my thread I just started about "odd and strange behavior", there is just too much insanity.....the social grids will break down either way soon no matter what happens.......sadly, the spirit and common sense has been knocked out of the large majority of humanity in my opinion.

People are under the illusion that the police and/or government is the glue that holds everything together when actually it is the people themselves that are the glue......this way of thinking and believing in such an illusion is bound to erupt in chaos sooner or later.

Keep your eyes peeled! the show is about to begin!

Hey mate,

What really bothers me is that much before police/constitutions/law enforcement, people were always subjected to some sort of punishing for their bad behaviors.

Much before that, we had all sorts of religions that preached the idea of punishment, in order to keep the population under control.

The ten commandments is a great example of that.

Could we keep ourselves under control without the fear of punishment?

Cheers,

Raf.

[Tarka the Duck]

I read this a couple of days ago in the Daily Mail (yes, I know... ) - but it seems relevant to the OP.

One in eight of the population admit they have no sense of moral rectitude, a survey has found.
They said No when asked if they were ‘a moral person who knows the difference between right and wrong and most often chooses the right course of action’.
The figure shot up to one in five when the question was asked in London, home to City bankers and Westminster politicians.
But in Scotland only one person in 15 put themselves among the bad guys.
Overall, women claimed to be more moral than men. Just over one in ten women said they were not guided by any sense of right and wrong, compared to nearly one in seven men.
Two-thirds of us think the moral standards of the nation are withering away.
According to the survey of 2,000 people carried out for the TCM cable movie channel, 12.55 per cent of the county said no when they were asked the question: are you a moral person?
The question was qualified as someone who ‘knows the difference between right and wrong and most often chooses the right course of action?’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1w5W6O3kt

[RMorgan]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
One in eight of the population admit they have no sense of moral rectitude, a survey has found.

Hey Kathie,

Well, things get even worse if we consider that a few of the other seven persons submitted to the survey could be simply lying.

This points to another problem.

Before simply obeying the law, people should first have the clear notion of what´s right or wrong.

The problem is that people could just achieve this notion if they have the true idea of what ethics really mean.

However, they don´t really teach ethics in schools or anywhere else. If a person wants to understand it, he should go to to the library and do his own research, which is a very rare behavior.

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by RMorgan (here)

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
There would be total chaos in my opinion, relating to my thread I just started about "odd and strange behavior", there is just too much insanity.....the social grids will break down either way soon no matter what happens.......sadly, the spirit and common sense has been knocked out of the large majority of humanity in my opinion.

People are under the illusion that the police and/or government is the glue that holds everything together when actually it is the people themselves that are the glue......this way of thinking and believing in such an illusion is bound to erupt in chaos sooner or later.

Keep your eyes peeled! the show is about to begin!

Hey mate,

What really bothers me is that much before police/constitutions/law enforcement, people were always subjected to some sort of punishing for their bad behaviors.

Much before that, we had all sorts of religions that preached the idea of punishment, in order to keep the population under control.

The ten commandments is a great example of that.

Could we keep ourselves under control without the fear of punishment?

Cheers,

Raf.

If we didn't live under so many illusions, some of what you mentioned above, things would be more real and in harmony with nature and creation so to speak. The old Native American social structures are a good example of a people/community not needing police or jails ect., they were not without some crime but their punishment was swift and usually left up to the family or person that was wronged to issue the verdict/punishment.....crime was very rare in many old tribal communities across the US......it seems to me that the more people are one or in harmony with the earth, nature, and all of creation, the easier things can be, far from where we are at now as a species that's for sure......

Added: the designed breakdown/destruction of community and family, especially in the last 40 years has been a huge contributor in the way things are today concerning mass crime against each other and complete insane like behavior.

[RMorgan]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
If we didn't live under so many illusions, some of what you mentioned above, things would be more real and in harmony with nature and creation so to speak. The old Native American social structures are a good example of a people/community not needing police or jails ect., they were not without some crime but their punishment was swift and usually left up to the family or person that was wronged to issue the verdict/punishment.....crime was very rare in many old tribal communities across the US......it seems to me that the more people are one or in harmony with the earth, nature, and all of creation, the easier things can be, far from where we are at now as a species that's for sure......

Added: the designed breakdown/destruction of community and family, especially in the last 40 years has been a huge contributor in the way things are today concerning mass crime against each other and complete insane like behavior.

Hey mate,

Yes, the old Native American tribes, which includes tribes from the entire American continent, are really a great example.

However, they were still living in small cells/tribes and there was still plenty of very violent wars going on between different tribes.

Is it possible to achieve harmony, like they partially did, in a global massive scale, without dividing ourselves into small clusters waging war towards each other?

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

These wars going on back then between these N.A. tribes were mostly small skirmishes over trespassing on another's hunting grounds/territorial, basically a struggle conflict between tribes solely for survival purposes.....

Times are much different now, I feel it's highly unlikely to go back to those days and ways.....we are basically beyond the point of no return in my opinion under these current systems and illusions that we are living under, they will most likely have to play themselves out and under current conditions it doesn't look like it'll be much harmony and love for a while.....it's any one's guess to what will replace these current systems and actually how many of us will be left here once the smoke clears....

Also: It wasn't really until the white man arrived in America that these wars between tribes became full blown tribal nation to tribal nation massacres for the most part.....

[RMorgan]

Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
These wars going on back then between these N.A. tribes were mostly small skirmishes over trespassing on another's hunting grounds/territorial, basically a struggle conflict between tribes solely for survival purposes.....

Well, the reason for making wars is still mostly the same, but since we have bigger societies and need more resources than simply food and territory, our wars have grown bigger in scale.

Basically, the wars back then were centered in the real basic level survival resources, for the sake of the survival of the species. Our wars today, are mostly centered on the survival of a lifestyle.

Anyway, I also think they used to live much more in harmony than we do.

However, if they were so socially evolved, then why didn´t they just talked to each other, solving their problems diplomatically, instead of making wars?

Cheers,

Raf.

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
However, if they were so socially evolved, then why didn´t they just talked to each other, solving their problems diplomatically, instead of making wars?

Cheers,

Raf.

This is a deep subject: in a nut shell though there was no time for talk; Power, control, arrogance and greed was the true agenda of the day when the white man arrived and the earth loving Native American way of life had no importance to these greed and power mongers.

As for the tribal conflicts it was basically a message to the trespassing tribes to back off and find another food source, that this one was taken, if they didn't then there would be some show of force to show them that they weren't kidding around....often times they shared food through trade with other struggling tribes before warring against them, trading stuff etc.....it was those sneaky ones that didn't ask permission and tresspassed that often paid a dear price for trespassing and threatening the survival of the neighboring tribe......it was really all about survival, not money or greed.

[NancyV]

If we didn't have laws and law enforcers it would be chaos and crime would increase. Just watch the movie Mad Max to know what would likely happen. I don't buy into the notion that any tribal cultures were either without crime or low on crime. Sure a very few isolated groups, like maybe Australian Aboriginals, probably had relative peace for short periods of time, but rarely for long.

American Indians often warred with other tribes. Many tribes kept slaves long before the European introduction of black slaves from Africa. American Indians also kept hostages, "adopted" captives whom they occasionally would cut off one foot so they couldn't run away, and sometimes used captives or slaves as sacrifices. Africans had slavery long before their slaves, which they sold to the whites, were imported into America.

Romanticizing any native culture is not at all realistic. All humans have violent tendencies as a survival mechanism. If we weren't so violent we would have become extinct long ago considering there are many animals that are more physically dangerous when compared to our fragile bodies. We don't have fangs, we can't run fast, we aren't big enough to intimidate most dangerous animals, we don't have a poison bite, no stingers.....nothing but our brains and our survival instincts. We are the most dangerous animal on earth and I would guess that we're more dangerous than many, if not most, off world species and probably other dimensionals. If we better learn how to defend ourselves against telepathic control and brainwashing we will be even more dangerous.

The question of this thread: "Are We Ready" is one I would answer with a big NO. If we don't have laws and law enforcement we will quickly degenerate into complete chaos with groups or tribes killing, stealing from others and taking slaves. I doubt that this 3D earth dimension will ever ascend to a point where it won't be this way. Since it's been this way for countless countless thousands of years, the odds of humans changing to some idealized happy, loving, evolved and enlightened state...are slim to none.

Mass ascension?? LOL..not gonna happen. Individually we can ascend right now. If you want to do it...do it. Don't wait around for ET's, Drake, Wilcock, the White Hats or anyone else to do it for you. Or...perhaps we are here for a reason. Even those of us who have "ascended" many times and merged with the source are still here. Why? ....Why not? When you have eternity it matters not what you do within this illusion called time and this illusionary 3rd dimensional construct called earth.

[Cartomancer]

I think everything would get evened out for the good in just a short time. Just because there were no police wouldn't mean that bad people would dominate. People would band together to protect themselves. You would see some of those going overboard and hanging someone for drunk in public or something but eventually it would all work out for the best. The way we do law enforcement is not questioned by the public and meanwhile half of the shows on tv make them look like hereos.

There has been a defininte move to control us more and more as time goes on. I don't like it.

[christian]

I am ready, but I tend to agree with you, most people still seem to be very attached to the artificial order the matrix generates for them and would most probably be very lost without that. Unprepared minds must necessarily have problems with changes, but at some point sticking to the old ways for the sake of not having chaos is not really an option anymore, as the old ways are generating an increasing amount of chaos themselves.



blue = old paradigm
pink = new paradigm
x-axis = time
y-axis= chaos/suffering

It's about finding the convergence point of the blue and pink to know when to (physically) fully commit to the new paradigm. I mean, right now I would hardly advise people to not pay taxes or not obey laws, even if they are criminal. Whom would it serve it you end up in jail now? But at some point, civil disobedience and the purposeful enactment of a new paradigm through personal commitment etc. might be a necessary step to take. If we do it all really well and it is all super smooth, changes will happen because a majority of people made up their minds and consciously choose to create a new paradigm. I choose not to give up hope in regard to this yet, the momentum is surely on the side of love, peace and harmony - there is an awakening happening.

[RMorgan]

Hey Chris,

I agree. Every society is cyclic. It seems to me that we´re indeed close to a major change.

I really don´t know if we´ll be able to handle a revolution without major bursts of violence, though.

What is still not clear for me, and for most part of our great philosophers, is that if the human being is violent by nature or not.

If we´re naturally violent, then this violence is beyond good and evil, it´s beyond judgement, since it´s natural. In this case, judging us would be the same as judging a lion.

The big question is; if we´re violent by nature, is there any equally natural way for us to control this violent impulses, so we can move towards a peaceful society?

We have tried religions and they didn´t work. We have tried laws and they are not working as well. What else could we try?

If the human being is not violent by nature, then we could work it out simply by re-education.

However, the evidence pointing to the contrary is overwhelming, since humans show violent behavior, in different levels, even in isolated tribes and small scale communities.

Cheers,

Raf.

[aranuk]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
I read this a couple of days ago in the Daily Mail (yes, I know... ) - but it seems relevant to the OP.

One in eight of the population admit they have no sense of moral rectitude, a survey has found.
They said No when asked if they were ‘a moral person who knows the difference between right and wrong and most often chooses the right course of action’.
The figure shot up to one in five when the question was asked in London, home to City bankers and Westminster politicians.
But in Scotland only one person in 15 put themselves among the bad guys.
Overall, women claimed to be more moral than men. Just over one in ten women said they were not guided by any sense of right and wrong, compared to nearly one in seven men.
Two-thirds of us think the moral standards of the nation are withering away.
According to the survey of 2,000 people carried out for the TCM cable movie channel, 12.55 per cent of the county said no when they were asked the question: are you a moral person?
The question was qualified as someone who ‘knows the difference between right and wrong and most often chooses the right course of action?’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1w5W6O3kt

Now do you all believe me when I say that Scots are more moral than the English?

Saint Stan

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
What is still not clear for me, and for most part of our great philosophers, is that the human being is violent by nature or not.

I am thoroughly convinced that being prone to violence is not our inherant nature, that we've been hijacked by the matrix. I think my own story bears this out. Just four years ago, if I would have come across a bumper sticker that read "War Is The Answer", it would have been on the back of my truck in a New York minute. Once the awakening process began, it was like pulling the drain in a tub to release that monstrous mindset back to the four winds. Sorry guys, you just lost another one.(LOL)

I also don't see many people on these forums doing the battle cry for war against the NWO, and these are people much more familiar with the history of atrocities than most. So I would say that the more we move to reclaim our true nature, the further removed we become from our false violent nature.

Cheers,
Fred

[RMorgan]

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)

Posted by RMorgan (here)
What is still not clear for me, and for most part of our great philosophers, is that the human being is violent by nature or not.

I am thoroughly convinced that being prone to violence is not our inherant nature, that we've been hijacked by the matrix. I think my own story bears this out. Just four years ago, if I would have come across a bumper sticker that read "War Is The Answer", it would have been on the back of my truck in a New York minute. Once the awakening process began, it was like pulling the drain in a tub to release that monstrous mindset back to the four winds. Sorry guys, you just lost another one.(LOL)

I also don't see many people on these forums doing the battle cry for war against the NWO, and these are people much more familiar with the history of atrocities than most. So I would say that the more we move to reclaim our true nature, the further removed we become from our false violent nature.

Cheers,
Fred

Hey Fred,

This raises another important point.

If we´re not naturally violent, how far have we been "domesticated" until violence become part of our natural behavior?

Metaphorically, we could talk about wolves and dogs.

Initially, wolves were domesticated for thousands of years, until they ended up as what we know as domestic dogs.

Dogs, when released in nature, don´t have so much of their natural instincts to survive on their own, differently from wolves.

Dogs often die without human masters to take care of them.

So are we, humans, after being "domesticated" and transformed into a violent species, able to return to our natural non-violent state?

I mean, in terms of conditioning/brainwashing, there clearly is a point of no return. So, how far have we been brainwashed/conditioned/domesticated?

Cheers,

Raf.

[christian]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
What is still not clear for me, and for most part of our great philosophers, is that the human being is violent by nature or not.

If we´re naturally violent, then this violence is beyond good and evil, it´s beyond judgement, since it´s natural. In this case, judging us would be the same as judging a lion.

The big question is; if we´re violent by nature, is there any equally natural way for us to control this violent impulses, so we can move towards a peaceful society?

We have tried religions and they didn´t work. We have tried laws and they are not working as well. What else could we try?

Excellent questions. I think it's safe to say, that a lot of the destructive tendencies right now present on earth are not genuine but imposed, as Don Juan says:

We have a predator that came from the depths of the cosmos and took over the rule of our lives. Human beings are its prisoners. The predator is our lord and master. It has rendered us docile, helpless. If we want to protest, it suppresses our protest. If we want to act independently, it demands that we don’t do so...
Sorcerers believe that the predators have given us our systems of beliefs, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us covetousness, greed and cowardice. It is the predators who make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal.

-- from http://www.metahistory.org/gnostique...a/CCgnosis.php
There are also methods described how to defend oneself against their influence.

I do see those "mud-shadows" and I always thought it was just glitches in my ability to perceive auras, which doesn't really make sense, as I realized before, that they influence people they connect with in a negative way, but I kind of didn't want to further pursue this line of investigation. Reading the descriptions from Don Juan and the Nag Hammadi texts were then impressive pieces of information to me. They are all over the place, virtually everybody is influenced by them. When they attach to someone, including myself, it seems to me, like the people then feel kind of smart and that what they are saying or doing due to the influence benefits them in some way, when actually it boils down to the stereotypical reptilian brain type behaviour -- which still is seen as smart by a lot of people, they say it's what it takes, to be successful in life. Needless to say, that people usually think the thoughts are their own and that they are not aware of the fact, that they are being influenced.

Breaking free of the predator's influence is eventually a matter of (meditative) willpower in my opinion.

Another convenient opportunity to link to Houman's archon thread:
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ew-with-Maarit

-------

Back to the question of what we could try, I think it's generally a subtle but profound and penetrating approach that will do it. People cannot be forced to act ethically responsible, it really boils down to living a decent life, individually helping others and being a benevolent teacher and not worrying about how long it will take, I think this is the only approach, that can eventually bear the real fruit of a matured humanity.

Trying to make men right by imposing laws and using coercion abuses mankind's mind. Besides, even the less complex beings on earth find ways around the constraints man imposes on them, so of course men finds ways around artificial constructs as well. A genuinely responsible society is born through the individuals deciding to go that way: Choosing to become awake and aware and act based on that. Those are the two major stumbling blocks, I guess. It's all about personal choices, we all have the higher and the lower elements within us and it's about what we strive after. I cannot make choices for others, so I choose for myself, stick to it and the rest is something "time" will tell.

It's the hardest way to go in a way, but the only way that has a light at the end of the tunnel, that is not a train.

(Global meditation starting right ahead: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...unday-27th-May)

[Carmen]

I agree with you Steve. Our human personality nature can be quite primitive, violent and base! But that is not our true nature. Those humans in contact, in the realization of their Inner Self, naturally move away from any need to be controlled by an outside force. Morality, honesty, integrity, peace, fearlessness, are all natural attributes of our Inner Self. These attributes occur natually with the realization of our Limitless Self. They are never forced in any way. Outside authority and opinion becomes Inner Authority and Knowing.