Are we ready?

[Eram]

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Hamlet
William Shakespeare


Are we ready?
How are we to know?

It would need a miracle to have this change occur without total chaos at this point in time.
Then again... miracles happen every day.
The whole existence is one big miracle.

Our thinking small doesn't serve us in the shift that we're going through.

The more we stay open for the unimaginable, the more we might be surprised in a pleasant way.

[Fred Steeves]

Posted by RMorgan (here)
I mean, in terms of conditioning/brainwashing, there clearly is a point of no return. So, how far have we been brainwashed/conditioned/domesticated?

In my opinion, completely. There does however seem to be that fail safe, that teeny weeny little burning coal of our true nature that can never be compromised, and it's always there waiting, in all of us. Of course the ones who gave us their minds are well aware of this little coal, and it must be a truly terrifying thought.

[white wizard]

I do not share some of Avalonians responses for the way you think people will react.
I believe people will come together in a major disruption rather then kill each other
one by one until only the strongest most ruthless people survive in marauding
hordes.

I do think there would be violence though, but on a more of people fighting
each other for things they want, such as food and supplies. In any given
situation people would band together to prevent rioting and looting in there
neighborhoods and either enforce common law until order returns or become a
policing force of there own. I have seen this happen in situations were disasters
occur people come together and protect each other rather then fight each other.

In a situation of complete shut down of all systems the smart people would come
together, because there is strength in numbers. In this situation chances are you
would have to go with what the group as a whole wanted to do. Even though
you might have some bad apples there, the good people who know what right
and wrong is would still have a say in things and most likely prevent the group
from doing anything as far as wreck less killing and hurting people.

The first thing that would happen is a compiling of supplies and setting up
communications with other groups and if possible left over law enforcement
services and government services. At this point a group depending on size
and type of people would then begin organizing itself for long term survival
or short term depending on type of event. This is the critical point in a group
formation, because leaders are established depending on skills and knowledge.

In these situations prior police and military will most likely gain control and lead the
group. Contrary to what you might think this is a good thing. I know a lot of military and police officers and there trained in enforcement of common law
and doing whats right.

Police officers would be the best for being group leader, because there trained to
handle situations of unrest and keep the peace. The prior or current military
people would most likely be used for group defense and offense if your in a big
group, which wants to restore order and safety in hostile areas.

I think if you are in a big city it would definitely be a more hostile situation and your best bet would be to leave until some type of order is restored or a large
group can come in a restore stability. Small to medium towns will most likely come
together more quickly, because if you live in one like me you know we look out
for each other. It is also more sustainable in a small town people store more food and have live stock on hand which will hopefully last until the group figures out
a way to sustain themselves by living off the land.

Most towns will probably become small self sustaining well armed communities and
depending on group resources safe havens for people leaving cities. Chances are
they will be turning away more people than accepting so you have to make yourself look desirable to them while and at the same time make it so people
do not wanna rob you while you are traveling.

I have enough food on hand for 3 months and enough protection to make myself
a very undesirable target. I believe it would take my town of 7,000 about a week
after the event to come together well enough to restore decent law and order.
most people have three days food on hand and won't start stealing until two days
without it so hopefully by then we get things together and there is not too much violence.

[RMorgan]

Posted by Wakytweaky (here)
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Hamlet
William Shakespeare


Are we ready?
How are we to know?

It would need a miracle to have this change occur without total chaos at this point in time.
Then again... miracles happen every day.
The whole existence is one big miracle.

Our thinking small doesn't serve us in the shift that we're going through.

The more we stay open for the unimaginable, the more we might be surprised in a pleasant way.

Hey mate,

I agree and I always keep my mind open for any possibility!

However, there´s not such thing as "thinking small".

Thinking is always amazing!

Besides, there´s no way to measure thought, to conclude if it is small or big.

If we don´t make difficult questions, if we don´t think, we would be just like rocks; and rocks don´t care about evolution, they just roll to wherever the circumstances push them.

Unfortunately, most people behave exactly like rocks.

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by Fred Steeves (here)
In my opinion, completely. There does however seem to be that fail safe, that teeny weeny little burning coal of our true nature that can never be compromised, and it's always there waiting, in all of us. Of course the ones who gave us their minds are well aware of this little coal, and it must be a truly terrifying thought.

In my opinion, you´re correct, Fred.

However, the more we wait, the more "that teeny weeny little burning coal of our true nature" becomes fragile and weak, and, eventually, it will fade away.

Cheers,

Raf.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Posted by Tarka the Duck (here)
I read this a couple of days ago in the Daily Mail (yes, I know... ) - but it seems relevant to the OP.

[I][SIZE="3"][COLOR="#4b0082"]One in eight of the population admit they have no sense of moral rectitude, a survey has found.

Hi Tarka, I am always personally suspicious of surveys. Often those taking them were hired to come up with a specific conclusion. In this case perhaps to convince us through fear that we need the police and the must become more aggressive to control us.

That being said, it's a complicated subject. Drugs factor in as drug addicts will often do anything to get their fix. (but again, who is supplying the drugs - lots of proof that it is the PTB) Also, as long as they keep us locked into an obvious unjust economical and judicial system - lots of resentment will rise up.

I know many on this forum saw the Zeitgeist Movement as not good - but it did have many good points. They interviewed many psychologist, anthropoligists, etc and what they concluded was: Man is not immoral by nature, but becomes that way through life experiences. Of course, you could say based on what I said earlier about surveys - this is what they wanted to prove, but it's definitely worth a watch. I have personally seen how something as simple as lack of proper nutrition can chemically change a person's behavior.

[Sierra]

Maybe someone can confirm something for me. I heard that the American system of government is based in part, on an Native American system, with one glaring omission, that a council of Indian women existed within the system, with the power to veto war.

I've also heard over the years, that we are one of three planets in our galaxy, that war with their own species.

No, I don't think we will stop being violent, not on an individual level. But damn it would be so wonderful if we'd quit going to war with one another. That alone, would release energy and resources, to make life better where we could actually see a difference on a global scale. It's the collective will that has to change. And the inertia is enormous. Easier to join the army to make a living, easier to get a job to harass people going through foreclosure, easier to frack the land next door, easier to put depleted plutonium in bullets for no other reason than ... (you get the idea) and until we start taking each other's survival into consideration, that inertia and acceptance of violence on a global scale will continue to rule (imo).

Many of the posts above, address the issue of survival. What I find particularly disgusting, is that for the most part, it is the already_rich_nations, waging war on the poor. While rich nations no longer own other nations (are there any "colonies" left?), they still use their economic clout to cause wars (We, the Americans, are THE weapon makers of the world, and we sell our products in such a way, that allows us to rape and pillage the countries under the control of those "on our side" (you buy our weapons, you starve, enslave, kill your people, you sell us your natural resources cheaply, and we'll make you, our regime puppet, richer than your wildest dreams. Oh yeah, lets make a deal!)

One at a time, we can choose to not do harm. This requires awareness, a refusal to be ignorant. When we choose to do this, the choice enters the collective, and gets passed down to the next generation. Just waiting for the 100th monkey to tip the balance.

Yeah, we'll get there. Two steps forward, one step back, we lurch along. It makes me nervous though, that the current cultural cycle is in a "dumb down" phase. Not good. Ignorance is deadly. What gives me hope, is that choosing to do no harm aligns with powerful energy that is not available to TPTB. And as NancyV points out, we have eternity to figure it out. I also believe and have faith, that many species have gone before in ways we wish to go. It is possible to create a planet of peace and abundance.

This slouching towards Bethlehem is such a drag.

Sierra

[Deega]

Thanks Raf for this interesting, challenging Tread. If we remove the police from the street, it would probably be catastrophic to start with.

But, with time, people would make allegiance, would work in creating security network where a philosophy would prevail, my security is assured if my neighbour security is assured, so, I have the responsibility to look over the security of my neighbour. It sure wouldn’t be easy to start with, but in time, it would be pleasing to feel that a whole community strive for the security of all its members.

Are we violent by nature or we are conditioned to be violent?

First, there is a part of us that is animal, we have the seed to be violent, and also, I think that we have been programmed or conditioned to be violent if need be.

But, we have what’s needed to overcome, a soul, a spirit that can make a difference with «love».

All the best to you.

Deega

[RMorgan]

Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)
I know many on this forum saw the Zeitgeist Movement as not good - but it did have many good points. They interviewed many psychologist, anthropoligists, etc and what they concluded was: Man is not immoral by nature, but becomes that way through life experiences.

This is an important point, my friend.

There´s a huge difference between being immoral and being violent.

Violence is not immoral, if it´s natural.

A lion, when killing another animal, is not immoral, it´s just violent.

A agree that immorality is highly subject to conditioning. I agree with it 99.9%.

However, violence is another thing.

If the human animal is violent by nature or not, is a question that our philosophy is yet to answer.

Cheers,

Raf.

Posted by Deega (here)
Thanks Raf for this interesting, challenging Tread. If we remove the police from the street, it would probably be catastrophic to start with.

But, with time, people would make allegiance, would work in creating security network where a philosophy would prevail, my security is assured if my neighbour security is assured, so, I have the responsibility to look over the security of my neighbour. It sure wouldn’t be easy to start with, but in time, it would be pleasing to feel that a whole community strive for the security of all its members.

Are we violent by nature or we are conditioned to be violent?

First, there is a part of us that is animal, we have the seed to be violent, and also, I think that we have been programmed or conditioned to be violent if need be.

But, we have what’s needed to overcome, a soul, a spirit that can make a difference with «love».

All the best to you.

Deega

Hey Deega,

That´s another interesting point.

I agree. If for some reason, things become uncontrollable, we would be able to organize ourselves into small relatively secure cells and communities.

However, will we be able to form a society, or will just make a social regression and go back living in tribal social structures?

If we menage to reorganize society, will it be the same old? Will it be better or worse than our current one?

Cheers,

Raf.

[Cartomancer]

Here's how to defeat the police state:

Attachment 16564

[RMorgan]

Posted by Cartomancer (here)
Here's how to defeat the police state:

Attachment 16564

Hey Cartomancer,

I´m not talking about the police state itself.

I´m talking about if we actually need law enforcement or if we could still organize a society without needing one.

Of course, along this thread, many other equally important questions were raised.

Cheers,

Raf.

[meeradas]

Can only speak for myself:
Violence isn't natural.
Being confronted with it quite early in this life,
i didn't get it, and i have still not got it nowadays.
I had to learn how to deal with it, like everyone here;
even learnt to use & used it once to stop harassment [did the job] -
still, the feeling that came with it is something i can only call 'totally alien'.
Again, that's just me.

To reorganize this here... there ain't even consensus in my street, amongst neighbors.

[Deega]

In response to RAF post 28.

Thanks Raf, if we have all (technology, works, what we have now to live) to continue our living, it would probably be a reorganized society that strive to preserve the security of all members. But if on the other hand, we are at lost with what is available to us now!, it would probably be a very different world. If we don’t have electricity, and we are not able to meet our basic needs, that would be a very challenging world, first for the new-born and older people, we are not prepared for this type of world, it would means, be ready to suffer for a while.

If we menage to reorganize society, will it be the same old?
Will it be better or worse than our current one?

If the Financial World is still holding the reign of decision making, it would tend to have a similar taste…!, if a new way of reward is found where all the sacred ressources of the Earth are put to value for the benefit of all, then, it might be different, hopefully..!

To be better than the one we have, would necessitate the following : children are borned in a «loving» societial world, the fundamental value that motivates people work is «ressources valuation_sacredness», that I am responsible to the security of my fellow citizen – that would entail that we «together» will live a better life – secured, that every human being are sacred and be treated that way, and the list is endless.

But, it seems that this dream of a better life is just a dream..!, or maybe someone can make a difference in working inwardly such that he may attained pleasurable living in attitudinal standing..!, who knows, we are more than we think, we were programmed to think less of who we are, we need to regain our power.

All the best to you.

Deega

[Carmen]

No RMorgan, the lion is not violent, it's hungry!! Very few animals kill just for the sake of killing, they kill to eat! There are exceptions, ferrets kill for the sake of killing which is why I have no hesitation in dealing to them! Wolves kill to eat, whilst domesticated dogs will kill sheep just for fun!!

Nature is in balance with it's animal species. Man upsets that balance by his control and attitude.

Actually there are checks and balances. The animal nature of man brought under the guidance/influence of his Inner Self is transformed and changed. The animal nature without this inner guidance eventually degenerates to the point where it destroys itself. Nature does not support that which does not evolve and grow as she evolves and grows.

[NancyV]

I consider a judgment that human aggression and violence are immoral or unnatural to be a denial of reality. As Raf has said, a lion cannot be judged immoral when it kills for survival. No animal, including humans, can be judged immoral when it kills if it is motivated by survival. Of course you may judge any killing as immoral but I consider that to be ignorant. As long as we are in a dimension of physical life and death we will kill to survive. Every time we eat we are eating the life of another, be it animal or plant. We humans thrive on consuming life. Every time we breathe or drink (unless you're drinking coca cola) we are ingesting living organisms.

It seems that natural human aggression is being used against us not only by any beings (perhaps archons and/or ET's among others) who are attempting to pervert our natural instincts to the point where we find it easy to kill for reasons other than survival, but it is also, perhaps inadvertently, being used against us by those who insist we are not naturally aggressive and violent and who persist in judging those who are more obviously aggressive and capable of violence. In this way they are attempting, deliberately or ignorantly, to instill a sense of guilt and shame for our natural tendencies and survival instincts.

A few of my favorite books on human evolution are The Territorial Imperative and African Genesis by Robert Ardry and The Naked Ape by Desmond Morris. When I read these books decades ago, they made good sense to me. Of course anyone is entitled to their opinion of how humans evolved and what are our natural inherent human survival instincts. But I don't see how anyone would think that a fragile human could survive against saber tooth tigers, pterodactyls, various dinosaurs and other dangerous animals without becoming a superior survivor and predator... and more dangerous than the animals that like to eat us.

If one refuses to accept their dual nature then one is denying a part of who we are in this duality. Accepting that humans are violent is not denying that we are also highly spiritual, loving and caring. I like this quote from Robert Ardry:

The miracle of man is not how far he has sunk but how magnificently he has risen. We are known among the stars by our poems, not our corpses. No creature who began as a mathematical improbability, who was selected through millions of years of unprecedented environmental hardship and change for ruggedness, ruthlessness, cunning, and adaptability, and who in the short ten thousand years of what we may call civilization has achieved such wonders as we find about us, may be regarded as a creature without promise.

[Ba-ba-Ra]

Posted by Deega (here)

But, it seems that this dream of a better life is just a dream..!, or maybe someone can make a difference in working inwardly such that he may attained pleasurable living in attitudinal standing..!, who knows, we are more than we think, we were programmed to think less of who we are, we need to regain our power.

All the best to you.

Deega

Yes Deega, I agree. I believe the power of man lies in our dreams, ideals and visions. Just when things seem at their worse, another Ghandi, Hiawatha, or Thomas Paine emmerges. I'm not saying wait for another one of these men, but to try to become one or educate our children to become one - or at least allow for the belief in the possibility of a greater future for humanity.

There was a conversation once between Beethoven and, I believe, Goethe. Beethoven was going on and on about what a terrible place the world had become. After listening at length, Goethe replied: I agree entirely with what you are saying, but I don't see how your spousing it regularly is doing anything to make it better.

I'm not saying we should stick our heads in the sand and deny, but instead to ask ourselves daily: "What am I doing to make this planet a better place? Am I reacting with violence (knee-jerk reactions) to those around me. Violence comes in many forms. Yelling at our children when we're frustrated, making snide remarks to friends, etc. When we see someone is upset with someone or about something, do we try to calm them down or do we work them up. If we understand the nature of energy, we could individually do much to dispurse violence.

Conversely, convincing ourselves we are violent by nature - where is that taking us?

[Deega]

Posted by Ba-ba-Ra (here)

I'm not saying we should stick our heads in the sand and deny, but instead to ask ourselves daily: "What am I doing to make this planet a better place? Am I reacting with violence (knee-jerk reactions) to those around me. Violence comes in many forms. Yelling at our children when we're frustrated, making snide remarks to friends, etc. When we see someone is upset with someone or about something, do we try to calm them down or do we work them up. If we understand the nature of energy, we could individually do much to dispurse violence.

Conversely, convincing ourselves we are violent by nature - where is that taking us?

Thanks Ba-Ba-Ra, interesting post, here is a few comments on part of it. Concur fully with «what am I doing to make this planet a better place?...violence. Yes!, unfortunately, aren’t we not to often, at lost, with patience, with tolerance, with forgiveness, with love to others!

But I would add that it stands also for all the natural resources we need to survive. What is our grain of salt..?, to preserved, to nurtured, to seed, our resources for tomorrow?, what a challenge we have, don’t we?

All the best to you.

Deega

[SilentFeathers]

I'll stick to my original response opinions/comments in this thread, we have had the spirit and common sense knocked out of us for the most part and have been brainwashed in many areas, which has knocked reality for many out of their world and they live in an delusional state. We have become insane and believe we are not even a part of nature and that we are above nature, that we are better than the grand design and can control it, (more insanity), that we are super beings who can control nature and every other aspect of reality....we have lost the ancient knowledge that we are all one and of the earth and ether, we are one with the universe and all things, and that going against nature and the universal law will only cause us to end up, well......look around you.........

There's no denying we are aggressive and "evil" in nature now, but were we in the beginning? were we genetically altered by a creepy alien race or another race of earth who are in hiding now?......no one knows.......find religion and you'll have all the answers! lol! (I'm being sarcastic) but I am also disgusted with what we have become, what we do to each other and the earth, what we do to all the life forms on this planet....and very few of us walk around in shame, many even laugh about how destructive we have become and have absolutely no remorse.

So yes, we are an insane species for the most part, look around you and call me a liar! and no, we are not ready yet! Ascension? yeah right, get real, find reality! We are not even close to becoming an enlightened super race with all the powers of the universe in my opinion, we can't even keep our own house( earth) in order and destroy everything we touch.

Alien intervention? yeah right! they avoid us like a plague or don't even notice us, the ones that do notice us or interact in some way with us are probably are aggressive killer like relatives.

There's my 2 cents worth and rant

Added: besides all the chemicals we digest/breath and also that we are a nation or species of prescription drug addicts, it's no wonder insanity has become so common....

[Carmody]

I come from a town of about 5000 people. We would, as usual, police ourselves. That is, if I was in that town..... but I'm not.

The dangers of city, is that city removes the fabric of community. With respect to the current human behavioral model, that is.

where does the flip occur?

I think it occurs when you see the first 'stranger' even though you both live in the same town. A person whom you cannot 'name', or 'place'.

This seems to happen at somewhere around the 10k population mark, maybe slightly lower.

It is the lack of all identification in any form of connection, that brings the beginnings of chaos, IMO.

The connections, as minimal as they may be, hold the fabric of community..together. They stretch to a tenuous state, somewhere around the 10k population point.

In this, I mean an ISOLATED 10k (or lower) population.

[mosquito]

Thanks Raf for an interesting and intelligent question. My answer has 2 totally different perspectives, that of the Westerner, born and raised in Britain, and that of the outsider, living in China.

First off - As a Brit. I'd say that Western society is in no way ready, for many of the reasons people have already highlighted. I think mnost people who live in the West will agree that violent crime especially is on the increase, which seems to be coupled with a general attitude of indifference to the plight of others. But I think the situation is very complex; the population has definitely become conditioned to seeing increased amounts of sufferening on the TV, and the entertainment industry has successfully ensured that an entire generation accept violence as an acceptable form of entertainment. Another factor is the attitude of the lawmakers. Something which has caused my hackles to rise in recent years is the adoption by Btitish and other Western societies of the hideous American term "Law enforcement". The job of the police in a civilized society is to protect citizens and maintain order, it IS NOT to enforce laws ! In my not-at-all-bloody-humble opinion, any law which needs enforcing needs to be SCRAPPED ! But this is just a symptom of the problem, I believe I'm right in saying that the Blair government introduced more legislation than any other government in history. Think about it - they introduce more laws, criminalizing more things, OF COURSE the crime rate goes up, because more and more "normal" people are now labelled as criminals ! My attitude is that governments like these fully deserve to have the people rebel and act lawlessly, I consider it my moral duty to break as many Blair-laws as possible. I don't smoke, but If I ever returned to Britain, I WOULD, simply because they say I can't.

The second perspective is from China which, contrary to what most of you want to believe, is A TOTALLY LAWLESS SOCIETY ! Walk around any city and you will see "laws" being flouted, people going about their daily business with complete disregard to what the legislators say they can and can't do. The police are scarcely visible, and they bear no resemblance to their armed, fascist counterparts in America. The police here are NOT law enforcers, they are seen as a public security service, and while I say that laws are openly flouted, that holds true so long as public order and safety aren't put at risk. If the police here operated with the same enthusiasm as the American or British police, Chinese society would collapse, because the majority of people would be in prison, including ALL of the traffic police (none of whom are capable of driving, nor obeying the traffic laws which everyone ignores). Occasionally, they have a crack-down, and they will spend an afternoon ticketing as many drivers as possible, or moving pavement vendors orwhatever, but for the most part they are non-intrusive. To my knowledge, the only people the police will take immediate action against is Falun Gong practitioners. But that's just typical of the contradictions of China.

People here generally live peacefully, I could walk around town all day and all night with a 100 yuan note taped to my back, and when I got home it would still be there. I can also walk around at night without being attacked and without seeing any violence. (In contrast to the last town in Britain where I lived (Halifax) where nearly every time I went out in the evening, I could see fresh blood stains on the pavements.) I live in a school with over 6,000 students, I've been here for 2 years, and in that time have seen ONE fight.

Dare I conclude by saying that Chinese (and possible other Asian societies) are self-policing to some extent, there are things that people here would never dream of doing, simply because it goes against their cultural values. There is still a sense of society here, something which is sadly lacking in a lot of Western countries.

Are we ready ? As a society of pawns/sheep, kept in ignorence and treated like mere subjects, NO. As a species of people who deserve to be treated with respect, who deserve sovereignty over their own bodies and lives, YES

[SilentFeathers]

Posted by Sierra (here)
Maybe someone can confirm something for me. I heard that the American system of government is based in part, on an Native American system, with one glaring omission, that a council of Indian women existed within the system, with the power to veto war.


Sierra

Gayanashagowa or the Great Law of Peace of the Iroquois (or Haudenosaunee) Six Nations (Oneida, Mohawk, Cayuga, Onondaga, the Seneca and Tuscarora) is the oral constitution whereby the Iroquois Confederacy was bound together. The law was written on wampum belts, conceived by Deganwidah, known as The Great Peacemaker, and his spokesman Hiawatha. The original five member nations ratified this constitution near present-day Victor, New York, with the sixth nation (the Tuscarora) being added in ca. 1720.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Law_of_Peace

This curricular unit looks at the influence one Native American culture had on the "Founding Fathers" ideas about democracy, governmental structures, the rights of the individual and the public good. Using primary sources, students will compare and contrast the differences between Native American and European cultures and how this affected governance. This will lead to a systematic comparison of the Iroquois Confederacy's Great Law of Peace and the US Constitution.
http://www.iroquoisdemocracy.pdx.edu/