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Thread: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    My first OBE was because of a near death experience around 3 years old. Possibly because of the NDE is why it's so easy for me.

    I've had several astral projection experiences that I was unaware of, where I've appeared in people's bedrooms at night. One was back in 1996 where I was warning a housemate about burning to death because of her newly installed gas stove in her bedroom. She confronted me in the morning about appearing in her bedroom pointing at her stove, which I had no memory of, but it gave me the opportunity to warn her about the gas stove, 9/11, and the massive nuke exploded over the Rockefeller building. She took the stove warning seriously, but then still moved back to the NYC area.

    One other astral projection was this women who's husband was going to beat her to death. I managed to convince her not to go back to her husband for the sake of her children.

    I've used astral travels to find a new place to incarnate. I'm just not into what this place is becoming, although it still could be good for people who enjoy such issues.
    Last edited by Terry777; 23rd April 2020 at 06:50.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hi Terry,

    Apologies for not responding to you sooner. At the start of this thread I was talking about OBEa, but in hindsight it seems to me that the best way to have OBEs isn't through trying to force one to happen by willpower and effort. Not at all. Not ever. Rather, at the risk of perhaps sounding egocentric, I now consider it ought to happen either as a natural, unforced product of the partial switching off of the physical senses which occurs automatically and naturally if one is meditating intensely enough, and what i would consider "prperly enough" or "masterfully enough" or something like that. Certainly, it also can often involve a conscious willingness to in effect switch on something extra than, additional to, physical perceptions or sensations or information. The other way to do it naturally, I now feel, is to go into it while one is asleep, hence going into a "waking" dream where one feels very conscious and may often later, on waking up physically, remember what happened.

    It sounds like you're doing something like this anyway, quite easily and fluently at least some of the time.

    I'm impressed by the accuracy of some of your OB perceptions. As I see it, the astral world is one where the Many Worlds Hypothesis is valid whereas I consider it's not valid at all in the physical world (despite the excuse some imagine they can use in the physical world that they're supposedly "creating another reality" when in fact they're just lying). However, all the Many Worlds one can experience in the astral will include such things as worlds constructed out of what you desire, or what you fear, or what you fantasize, and so on. So although they're quite real in the astral, quite often when you're back in the physical they're not, or they're only partially real. This complicates the question of how to be sure one is accurately describing insights into the physical world gained via the astral -- though perhaps some insights into others' minds etc may be quite accurate. Not that I'm trying to invalidate the impressive level of details you've experienced. But I consider one does also need to take this side of it into account. I think this is why remote viewing puts such huge emphasis on capturing lots and lots of physical details about the target which is, however, viewed from out of one's body.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    In post #2730 I made some comments or suggestions or hints about in what ways such things as affirmations do and don't work, and about why/when that's the case. In this post I want to continue with some further points.
    In my experience the whole subject is many-faceted. I hope to explain a little here about why t's not quite as simple as some obviously believe.

    I'll need to briefly discuss or mention various things about desire, will power, prayers, and some aspects of how higher worlds interact with lower worlds.

    To choose a point just to begin from, let's note that very often -- in fact, usually -- when someone talks of "will power", usually a more accurate term would be "won't power". "I won't smoke any more", or "I'll avoid eating food that has toxic or inflammatory effects on my organism and thereby makes me gain weight", or "I won't continually escape out of the present moment while I'm at work, and so in that sense I won't indulge in hating my job". And so on, for whatever the issue is.

    But, if will power has so much to do with "won't", and therefore inevitably at times with inherently somewhat negative things such as resistance and escape, surely one has to wonder. Under what sorts of circumstances is "won't power" truly altogether 100% guaranteed a wholesome thing? Obviously, though, I admit, we do also need to use will power for many positive ends such as, for instance, getting our body out of bed in the morning so we can arrive at work on time, or to meet various family-related expectations or obligations. I admit it's also true that it's often practical to use "won't power" with the positive end or hope of momentarily freeing ourselves from negative or demeaning temptations or urges.

    Enough just for now about "won't" power. Next, some comments about our positively willing something to happen. It seems to me, and let's note, that nearly always positive affirmations take the form of:

    "My will be done."

    And not, usually, "Thy will be done", where "Thy" refers to the Universe, to Source.

    In this respect, affirmations (or "The Secret", so-called) try to achieve the same thing as prayers of the "Dear Santa" type (most prayers) do. And that is to try to twist the arm of God, or of the Universe, into giving me my desire.

    So, in realizing this we have already uncovered what's flawed in most affirmations (and prayers of the "Dear Santa" type or intention). The demonic gods, such as Lucifer (and they do exist), are evil only because they live by: "My will be done, and to hell with what the Universe or the Whole wants."

    I'm not denying that we're all more powerful beings than most of us probably think (if we can access our inner potential). Neither am I denying that if our consciousness rises to a world, a level of reality, that lies beyond the mental worlds (the worlds of thought and of form), then from that world of wholistic intuition we can bring a higher energy down that will energize our thoughts in such a way as may cause what is in those thoughts to materialize in the physical world.

    However, we'll only do this well and properly if we can fully integrate the world of our suffering with the world of the sublime. Perhaps an equivalent way to say this is that as long as we need "won't power", that implies there's a conflict going inside us between "we will" and "we won't". The tug-of-war between "I will" and "I won't" uses up most of one's energy (at all levels), which then causes us to manifest much less than what we may have wished for. This isn't about force.
    Here I suggest that forcefully saying "I will" will implicitly be force against the "I won't".
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 3rd December 2020 at 05:46.
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    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Very early in this thread I was asked whether I had any genes from an aristocratic family. The implication behind that question was that members of the original genuine royal families possessed a greater proportion of alien genes. And that with such genes there comes a greater natural propensity than "normal" to access intuitive or psychic or superconscious abilities. (That's because the human race as we know it is relatively young, and older alien races will usually have evolved extra abilities.)

    So I'd like to say a little (well, it's a long story) about my background in regard to that. My mother came from Lithuania, but she did tell me she was (almost-) half French. And she did tell me how in Lithuania one of her first cousins (also half-French) was officially Vice President until the Russian invasion in June 1941, but behind the scenes he was very much the president. In addition, one of her uncles (again, half-French from that royal family in ancestry) was the richest man in the country. He had created, and effectively controlled, the textile industry there, which was very much the country's biggest employer. (Lithuania has always grown much linen even though it's also all dairy country and lakes.) He, and not the President, had the royal box at the opera (which was a big deal in the early twentieth century). Although my mother didn't explicitly spell it out, her nonverbal behavior and her thinking said that this was a continuation of the French crown, in control of Lithuania. The cousin and the uncle very often spent three-day or four-day weekends at my mother's family's primary residence, That was at a scenic location by the country's second largest river. The cousin and the uncle openly claimed to my mother's family that they were the mini-cabinet that actually ran the country. Various other cousins of my mother's were also in prominent positions. For instance, three first cousins were professors of theology at the Vatican, and one of them had greater seniority than any other professor at the Vatican. (However, there was obviously something there at the Vatican that gave them no interest in advancing to cardinalhood.) Just by the way, Lithuanian is the oldest surviving Indo-European language, although there are older languages such as Basque and Hungarian, which are Atlantean languages. Lithuanian was the initial language spoken in the Indus Valley, from about 3400 BC, and was the lamguage that Krishna spoke when he was king. Two very closely related but slightly less old languages are Sanskrit and Old Prussian.

    Louis XVI had had two children, a son and a daughter, who lived on and were not guillotined. As far as I know, my mother was descended mostly from the daughter's descendants. I know there was a certain amount of inbreeding -among my ancestors -- certainly second cousins marrying, and one marriage between first cousins (bad enough, but also Louis XIV had married his first cousin). Louis XVI's daughter settled in Livonia, which today is part of Latvia, but not so far from the Lithuanian border. I seem to have inherited surprisingly few health problems from the inbreeding, all things considered, although given my build I have abnormally short arms and legs and an abnormally large skull (with a hint of conehead) and very large chest and feet. I also have terrible circulation in my legs and used to have a very, very slow metabolic rate, so that for my first 35 years my body would feel terrible throughout the mornings and it seemed impossible for me not to be overweight. Still, not so bad.

    In 1800 Napoleon directed his troops to spend a fortnight in Lithuania having their R&R, prior to their entering White Russia and Russia. Napoleon was something of a puppet, in that behind the scenes he did whatever the French aristocrats told him to do. Eight of my great great great grandfathers were officers in Napoleon's army. It turned out that by the end of the two weeks' R&R they all got engaged to Lithuanian women, and that those marriages had all been pre-planned by the officers' parents. The R&R took place by the banks of the same river as my mother's main parental home. In fact, it would have been somewhere very close to it. Seven of the eight officers who were my ancestors were French royals, and the eighth was a Hapsburg (Prussian) royal.

    I've read on the internet that Louis XVI's male child eventually started the Peysore family, and some claim that's the world's richest family today. I don't really know anything about it, other than that Princess Diana was a descendant of his. I do know that my mother apparently considered Queen Elizabeth to have not come from a true enough bloodline, and maybe that explains why Charles was told a long time ago that he would have to marry either Diana's sister or Diana (to link up with the French royal line).

    As far as descent from alien races in the distant past goes, looking at my family and my cousins I have to say that there must have been a number of different alien races (maybe four or more) involved in my family's origins. For instance, everyone seemed to consider my brother and myself to be very unlike in temperament and personality. Similarly, some of my cousins seem very different indeed in their personalities even when they're siblings.

    There's much written about "the illuminati" on the internet that would seem to me very exaggerated or fantasy if applied to any of my relatives. Then again, I never went to any weird meetings etc, and my mother emigrated to Australia and just lived an ordinary life (presumably unlike her mother, I suspect). Well, ordinary except that she was certainly very clairvoyant. In her mind she could play herself a detailed movie of literally everything I ever did, even when she hadn't been present. I must admit I didn't like her lack of respect for my privacy in this way. I have no doubt this was the way her mother and older siblings had brought her up, and she seemed to think that this was what any mother does. She was also in the habit of communicating with me as much via telepathy as through spoken words, and seemed to think nothing of it, given that I was her child.

    She also brought me up in the "iron fist in a velvet glove" mode, which no doubt the children of all royal families used to be brought up in, and I wouldn't be surprised if they still are today. I'll bet the magazines will never tell you directly about that -- or if they try, they'll make it sound unbelievable as well. The "velvet glove" part meant that I was given much more affection and pampering than a child normally gets, plus huge cultivation of my sense of sovereignty, plus entitlement (i.e., I was fairly often spoilt). The "iron fist" part was pretty baldly a contradiction of this. Yes, it did involve a certain degree of psychological torture, but certainly no conscious sadism. From infancy, my mother would induce anxiety and fear, and often guilt, in me whenever I failed to be obedient, or failed to learn quickly. And the standards demanded were really tough. It would take me to almost my mid-thirties before I fully learnt how to stop walking on eggshells in my dealings with others -- although it's also true that habits of behaviour in rebellion to that would sometimes take over instead, from age nine onward.

    To some degree I got to con my mother into relaxing "the fist". For one thing, I was a born rebel. I don't mean politically or socially, but I was very independent-minded and a lateral thinker by nature. So I openly defied "the fist", from age two on. Somehow I sold it to my mother that this defiance was charming. I think she secretly would have liked to rebel too, and also I was her favourite child so she sometimes, in fact fairly often, made excuses for me. Or for whatever reason, she learned to often support and enjoy that defiance.

    My poor old father got "the fist" alright too, and he became an alcoholic as a result. I can hear people saying: "No-one can make someone else become an alcoholic. It's a condition one brings on by oneself, initially through one's own choice." Yes, I hear that, but I still say that but for my mother (with whom I did have a very strong and affectionate bond) I think he would never have become that way. That's "the fist". "The fist" is very tough. Somehow I managed to con my mother into letting go of "the fist" quite often in her relationship with me. But to what extent she managed to let go of it, or to fail to be strongly influenced by it, in any other relationships, I'm not sure. I think she had been thoroughly conditioned into using it. She divorced my father and re-married so I had a stepfather, but he also became at least a mild alcoholic.

    I don't think that the only reason why some alien races must have introduced "the fist" was so that they could control the human race in certain ways. I think it also had something to do with keeping the "flame" of intuitive abilities alive in the rulers so that they would hopefully have greater access to wisdom and true understanding. When I say "intuitive", I don't primarily mean psychic abilities or skills, but faculties of the soul, which lives with at least one "foot" in the formless worlds. People sometimes, in my opinion, abuse the word "intuitive" or "intuition" to refer to psychic skills. One place where the soul does speak to part of us directly is in our dreams. But you can recall a dream by remembering its details and writing them down the instant you wake up. Then you can look at the standard meanings of the symbols in your dream and thereby intellectually/critically analyze what it was about. But that's not what I mean by using the intuition. Using the intuition means you can write the dream down and then you can activate a direct knowing or direct seeing of what the dream was really about. I believe I can do this, with my own dreams and also the dreams of others, and I believe I've proved that to various individuals not on the Forum).

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I'd like to briefly explain here some aspects of how the way manifestation occurs is, usually, primarily through the power of awareness, the power of attention, which also does, at the beginning of each time it's used, involve the use of strong concentration.
    It doesn't occur, directly or centrally, through the use of will power, nor, usually, through "the power of positive thinking" (but it does require genuine "positive being").

    There are many notions and many influences that, historically, have gotten tangled up here, I suspect sometimes originally with the deliberate aim of misleading. But I want to talk mostly just about what really works.

    Firstly, let's look briefly at how psychic healing works (or my understanding of how it works). What I do is initially use strong concentration to locate and "see" or "feel" the bioenergy field of the unwell individual. Once I've located them, the concentration seems to automatically transform itself into awareness. Then I just simply experience the energy inside the client's body and energy field. If they're very ill, or supposedly terminal, that's always a touch uncomfortable to bear. In fact, with supposedly terminal cases I always seem to somehow get the smell of vomit, which I don't find completely easy to bear but I know I have to bear it. plus strong feelings of despair and staleness. Somehow, my awareness seems to heal all of the above, just by shining "light" on it, so to speak. The client's self-healing abilities somehow then become free to activate themselves. (That's if the individual wants to be healed. Some terminal clients have already (perhaps unconsciously) decided they want to die, and put up an icy cold energy field that closes off any healing energy's getting through.)

    What I'm saying is that the healing always occurs principally through my paying intense attention to, and being totally open to experiencing, the client's unwell energy. (And then the client begins to do the same.) It's not done through my using will power, other than my making sure I stick with it and bear the initial unpleasantness. And in my experience, that "will power" really just amounts to my using sufficient concentration, mostly at the beginning.

    I claim that what happens in such psychic healing is, roughly, a good model of how any kind of manifestation actually works, and not just the manifesting of good health. Attention, or awareness, does require some concentration at its beginnings. But one then gets so absorbed into the blossoming of awareness that one kind of kicks that ladder away.

    Another phenomenon I'd like to look at here is the practice of "one-pointedness", which Zen Buddhism has always regarded as vital and central to its practice. Obviously, "one-pointed" involves initial concentration on whatever "point" is involved, concentration to the exclusion of everything else. The Japanese kamikaze pilots used it effectively in the second world war. But notice that if one is one-pointed enough then one's concentration brings in the whole consciousness, the whole being. In this way, after hopefully a short while the concentration gets transformed into being total in what one is doing. But being total means operating at (at least) a soul level, with genuine direct access to one's intuitive abilities and intuitive knowledge. That level of reality is where all manifestation, all creation, and all insight-based knowledge, comes from. Concentration, which by its nature is narrow and exclusive and restricted, gets replaced by something wholistic and relational and integrative.

    When religious individuals pray, or even, as they claim, chat with "God", what actually happens is that, if they're lucky, one of their guardian angels does hear their request for help of some kind, and may well then organize a creative solution to some problem. For example. if there is a conflict with someone else, they may organize something with one of that individual's guardian angels. Earlier in this thread, Joe Akulis referred to some books by an individual who conducted empirical studies and research which seemed to show that such help does occur at times.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 7th March 2021 at 09:10.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Early in this thread I've mentioned the oversoul. Here I'd like to say a little about the oversoul chakra,
    and about the problem of not progressing further than having one's third eye opened.

    I don't myself approve of stressing the chakras per se too much. Rather, I'm usually interested in unblocked
    chakras only as indicators of successful progress to some certain stage. (Or in blocked chakras as a rough guide to
    areas that need attention).

    However, the oversoul chakra looks stunningly beautiful, to anyone who has the clairvoyant "eyes" to see it. Its center
    is about eight inches above the middle of the head. Its shape is spherical, and it reaches to almost the bottom of the chin, but there are strucures within it somewhat rather like a gigantic snowflake.
    You may have seen an illustration of "the thousand petal lotus" above the head of the Buddha or of some other sage.
    Yes, that's the oversoul chakra. Its color and some other details change as one develops it further, but
    initially it shines ever so brilliantly yet quite blurry-edged in shades of almost electric-looking violet.

    The third eye chakra has that violet color also. Once the third eye has been opened, at first what you see, in
    my observation, is the pineal gland lit up by that violet color, rather like a neon tube the size and shape of a
    finger, in the middle of the head. As the third eye develops further, there develops a violet "cloud" and aura
    above and around much of the upper half of the head. At this point one can also physically feel the apparent
    steel-like frame around the upper head that is what AwakeInADream in 2013 called the "football helmet", that
    Druno Melchizedek had also talked about.

    The next stage is the opening of the crown chakra. This looks pure white, and extends above the head. Actually
    it's just the full extension of the third eye chakra but initially for some years (and thereafter too) it feels
    like a double crown -- two concentric circles or ovals -- on the top of one's head.

    Vivekananda was the first teacher to bring Yoga to the West. I knew someone who heard him speak here in Sydney
    on his visit in 1959. At that visit he had said that if you can clearly feel the energy or the weight of the crown
    chakra above your head then you can be confident you'll basically achieve freedom (from unhappiness) in this
    lifetime. My friend who was there found this very reassuring, as she could certainly feel the upward flow of
    energy through her crown chakra. However, unfortunately very few people there could do so. (She happened to be
    extremely clairvoyant and so she knew this was the case.)

    I believe Vivekananda was right. If you can feel that upward flow above your head at will and quite tangibly,
    then that means your oversoul chakra is in the process of opening, or has already opened. Yay!


    I'd now like to turn to what I've noticed seems, to me, to be one of the biggest reasons why some well-intentioned
    aspirants get stuck at the third eye opened stage and have trouble getting further. There's a famous anecdote
    about Basho, who is considered to have been one of the greatest Zen masters of all. Basho was visiting a Zen
    monastery when he saw a monk very assiduously polishing a tile over and over. Basho made a big point of
    remarking that that would never get the monk who was doing the polishing any further than having a super-clean
    tile. Basho was of course deliberately speaking symbolically, at a few different levels at once. It strikes me
    very strongly, though, that his remark seems to precisely address something I see many individuals with an opened
    third eye do. They try very very hard to "be good", and to be very faithful followers of some orthodoxy. As I
    have heard one such individual say a number of times very emphatically, it's a matter of cleaning more and more
    mud out of the water of the lake (of consciousness), and then, they believe, they'll be free with a capital "F".
    Wrong! What I observe is that some such individuals make their third eye chakra glow so cleanly, so purely and
    brightly, that I get reminded of Basho's wise comment. Eventually these individuals do open up their crown chakra,
    and then they keep doing the same super-polishing process to try and make that whiter than white -- though I've
    noticed that the crown chakra won't allow itself to be fully "whitewashed" in this sort of way.

    Yes, we do need to do our best to create good things in our environment, and to avoid harm to others as far as we
    reasonably can. But there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio. One thing that comes to mind is how in
    the Zen tradition the "crazy wisdom" Zen masters are and were regarded by many as the greatest masters of all.
    Some of them simply and sincerely laughed at pretty much everything, yet managed to do it without causing offence.
    Ah, if we could only all have a drop of that at hand in ourselves!

    Here in Sydney I like to occasionally go to the weekly public guest talk at the Theosophical Society. The TS here
    does certainly a very good and well-informed job indeed of finding a different speaker every week with some
    genuine expertise in some area of spiritual experience or knowledge. Yet I see some of the most serious "students"
    still polishing their tiles ever yet again, making them a cleaner and shinier purple than before, if that is even
    possible in several cases. But I believe I don't always see anyone with an activated oversoul, and if I do, it's usually
    about one or two only, it's much more often in the audience than in the speaker for the day. A few years ago I used
    to go to the Anthroposophical Society too. They were much the same, except usually there were many in the audience
    who hadn't even opened their third eye yet.

    I do also certainly come across individuals who've opened their oversoul chakra naturally, without so much contact with
    meditation teachers or societies etc.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Have you ever read this title TraineeHuman?

    I read it many years back and got some good pointers that helped me in opening third eye, which I had thought I was already achieving before but then upon experiencing what you've described as "football helment" was a (pun intended) real eye opener. <laughs at own joke>
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hi Ankle Biter,

    Thank you for that. As far as I know, most of the information that the Clairvision School puts out seems to be very accurate and thorough. Unfortunately, though, I read very little about spirituality at all these days. I consider that the whole basis of understanding spirituality, at least for me, is one's own direct experience. Direct experience is the only thing that's totally certain (though there are also self-evident truths -- e.g., it's also pretty certain that two plus two is four). One has to go within because the entire universe itself, including the Divine or heavenly worlds, is all within you. (And that's because the only way you ever know anything about the universe is from and as your-own-perception-of-the-universe, full stop.)

    Then one needs to "decipher" one's experiences, in the sense of understanding or explaining to one's self what they mean. But the direct experiences need to come first, and not the other way around. The work (of self-mindfulness, of meditation, of facing one's self and the world and universe) always needs to come first. One can really only do that by becoming extremely good at observing what's really there, which includes some form of practical philosophy and psychology and sometimes sociology. The info you've quoted from Clairvision seems very accurate and so I won't try to add anything to that right now. But we need to question literally everything. Only that way can we know when it's very accurate.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Hi Ankle Biter,

    Thank you for that. As far as I know, most of the information that the Clairvision School puts out seems to be very accurate and thorough. Unfortunately, though, I read very little about spirituality at all these days. I consider that the whole basis of understanding spirituality, at least for me, is one's own direct experience. Direct experience is the only thing that's totally certain (though there are also self-evident truths -- e.g., it's also pretty certain that two plus two is four). One has to go within because the entire universe itself, including the Divine or heavenly worlds, is all within you. (And that's because the only way you ever know anything about the universe is from and as your-own-perception-of-the-universe, full stop.)

    Then one needs to "decipher" one's experiences, in the sense of understanding or explaining to one's self what they mean. But the direct experiences need to come first, and not the other way around. The work (of self-mindfulness, of meditation, of facing one's self and the world and universe) always needs to come first. One can really only do that by becoming extremely good at observing what's really there, which includes some form of practical philosophy and psychology and sometimes sociology. The info you've quoted from Clairvision seems very accurate and so I won't try to add anything to that right now. But we need to question literally everything. Only that way can we know when it's very accurate.
    I love when Zen is Zen
    Tired

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Hi Ankle Biter,

    Thank you for that. As far as I know, most of the information that the Clairvision School puts out seems to be very accurate and thorough. Unfortunately, though, I read very little about spirituality at all these days. I consider that the whole basis of understanding spirituality, at least for me, is one's own direct experience. Direct experience is the only thing that's totally certain (though there are also self-evident truths -- e.g., it's also pretty certain that two plus two is four). One has to go within because the entire universe itself, including the Divine or heavenly worlds, is all within you. (And that's because the only way you ever know anything about the universe is from and as your-own-perception-of-the-universe, full stop.)

    Then one needs to "decipher" one's experiences, in the sense of understanding or explaining to one's self what they mean. But the direct experiences need to come first, and not the other way around. The work (of self-mindfulness, of meditation, of facing one's self and the world and universe) always needs to come first. One can really only do that by becoming extremely good at observing what's really there, which includes some form of practical philosophy and psychology and sometimes sociology. The info you've quoted from Clairvision seems very accurate and so I won't try to add anything to that right now. But we need to question literally everything. Only that way can we know when it's very accurate.
    I hear ya there, I think the total number of things I've read on the matter totals 2 books, the linked one I read cover to cover but the other I probably didn't and can't even recall what it was other than it gave me some tips on breathing exercises. Otherwise like you say I've only ever really gone with my intuition and direct experiences. With regards to OBE's there were some years of experiences already before I sought out any external information like a book or other literature... I mean it was probably very very early internet or even pre-internet days so accessibility to resources was quite limited even if I wanted more. But that was fine because the experiences alone were very full and I gained a lot of personal insight from them. Also I found that if I ever discussed in person something about OBE's to someone the conversation inevitably would include things like using symbols or crystals or oils and endless other stimuli which never 'resonated' for me, not to diminish any value they have for others in their own experiences, but from my own perspective felt the best approach was from nothingness. Like a complete emptying of mind of anything and everything without form or substance and only being in the present moment of naked consciousness. There was a bit of 'fluff' like that in the book from Clairvision school but yeah just was saying that it had some nice bits that allowed me to polish some of the tools already in my shed. (sorry for all the analogies, metaphors, I can't help but paint when I'm writing it seems). Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I have enjoyed this thread over the years.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    In my latest post, I mentioned how we all have all our self-knowledge somewhere inside us,
    waiting to be consciously dug out. From the ancient Indian and ancient Chinese teachings,
    though, we have, among other things (such as the concept and reality of the subconscious,
    and even of the unconscious which is really still subconscious because the light of our inner
    perception still shines through it, ultimately) the notion (and reality) of "the shadpw (self)",
    as Jung referred to it. The problem is, we don't know that we don't know whatever
    it is that we don't know. Or we don't appreciate its importance.

    I'd like to emphasize two components of our shadow that we need to identify, and understand
    what their implications have been and still are in our own life. One of these is to identify the
    biggest trauma in our life, other than our birth trauma. Normally it will have occurred somewhere
    in our first twelve years. However, for some time after it occurred we will have acted strangely
    but not realized just how shattered we felt.

    Some of the people around us, such as teachers and classmates and certainly our mothers, will
    have noticed, but we ourselves may well not have appreciated the magnitude of it -- or we may
    have wanted to forget about it as far as we could.

    In my own case, the biggest trauma occurred when I was nine and my parents told me they were
    going to divorce, and that I would have to choose to remain with one of them but not the other.
    The ultimate reason why this was so traumatic for me was to do with why, many lifetimes ago, as
    a member of the Guardian Alliance it was decided I needed to gain a deeper understanding of
    disharmony. In the (higher) astral dimensions everything and everyone exists in harmony, unlike the
    chaos and conflict and contrariness that permeate this world.

    The other aspect of your own shadow that I suggest you need to very accurately and precisely identify
    and face is:

    What is, and was,your conditioning? Well over 50% of your conditioning is (well, was) your parents.
    They thought they were writing on a blank slate, silly them! You need to be a very good detective here.
    What sort of expectations did they really have about you? What did they
    consider would make you a "success" in this life? What was the conditioning they themselves were
    operating under, unconsciously?
    In the Old Testament there is a phrase that gets repeated quite a number
    of times. "The sins of the fathers will be visited upon their children, even
    unto the seventh (or ninth, or thirteenth, or fifteenth) generation".
    The number of generations nominated varies, but the point is that
    the conditioning gets passed on and on, unconsciously and unresolved.

    You can't get rid of your conditioning overnight, by any means. It will
    have so many layers, so many interweaves. Typically, the "emotional core"
    of it seems to get laid down somewhere between the age of nine months to
    eighteen months. At around age four, or five, or six, people develop
    "childhood amnesia" of what happened before that age. But that amnesia
    is there only because prior to that age the child's consciousness was
    primarily in the astral, and with the right sort of work it's possible to recover
    what happened at earlier ages too.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 8th July 2021 at 05:29.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    The following video covers quite a variety of subjects. I guess they're all quite relevant, often very relevant, in some way at least, to understanding what abundance (minus any greed) truly implies. As he demonstrates, "abundance" is really a deceptively complex and deep issue. I'm posting it here because I see many if not most aspects of "The Law of Attraction" as a psyop that was being very energetically promoted around the beginning of the twentieth century (and in the second half of the nineteenth century too).

    Sadhguru seems to be sometimes coming up with and very clearly and accurately expressing some outstandingly good information lately.


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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    Quote Posted by Sueanne47 (here)
    Hi TraineeHuman,

    I read a thread on Avalon about Horus Ra, on there it said "The new age awakening can be dangerous as there are portals for dark forces to manifest" meaning people can get a psychic attack, this is why I have stopped meditating. What are your thoughts on that?

    Sue
    Hi Sue,

    In all my lifelong experience (more than six decades, since I started naturally in childhood), proper meditation is generally the most powerful means there is of summoning positive and protective and benevolent forces and (benevolent, positive) light, and also all inspiration. (In some forms of meditation this can occur more subtly, but more subtle is ultimately more powerful.) It increases one's "level" of positive energy. Much of this is too subtle for most people to observe, but the light that's generated actually dissolves some of the very many little darker energies inside an individual. In my experience, it's the key to Heaven (and the only legitimate key I know of, though I guess I consider "deep prayer" to be effectively a form of meditation). In all my experience, it's also exactly the energy that one has to use to rescue individuals who are trapped in some hell. The subject of how to protect oneself as far as possible is more complex than it may seem, but speaking generally, proper meditation is all to do with taking ioneself onto stronger ground.

    Also in all my experience, the only times when a "normal" person will experience psychic attack seem to be either during a drug episode (and, incidentally, marijuana is a very strong drug from a psychic point of view, I'm afraid, unless perhaps the individual is very, very strong and very, very advanced) or in a drug flashback, or at night while sleeping or going to sleep or maybe when having half woken up from sleep. The exceptions to that, in my experience, are, firstly and primarily, someone who has major emotional problems. (I can't make any judgments about any possible emotional problems, if such exist, of anyone writing in the Horus Ra thread, as I haven't met them in person and therefore it would be totally unprofessional of me to profess to diagnose them long-distance.) It's also the very rare case that some individuals seem to have very weak ego boundaries and that makes them overly suggestible or overly vulnerable to such things as psychic attacks. Such individuals shouldn't try to meditate, but should avail themselves of appropriate psychotherapy and also of plenty of healing.

    A major facet of meditation, in my experience, is that it gradually and seamlessly teaches one how to come to know and gradually submit to the Divine will better and better. One normally can't just decide one day to follow the Divine will like that was some New Year's resolution.

    Meditation does a great many things, and most of the posts in this thread are about them. There are so many, I can't even begin to summarize them or point towards them in one post. But as Jesus said: "Watch always." As I believe I've explained in this thread in huge detail, such "watching", and its mastery, is the very center of what meditation is all about, and the most central skill within meditation.

    Also, one doesn't necessarily succeed in summoning positive forces or positive energy just by saying the name of Jesus or calling for your guardian angels or whatever. The safer and more effective way to do it is to first rise to a higher level of awareness. I know of no more effective, or as safe, a way of doing so than (proper) meditation. I would insist that by stopping your meditation you're now probably opening yourself up to greater influence by dark forces.

    Do you have any other comments?
    Hi TH, would you please elaborate on 'proper' meditation just a little bit when able please?

    I'm reminded of times in my early OBEs, induced through meditation, where I encountered energies that didn't play nice. Other times I met very uplifting positive ones but my process or approach was always the same way. So I'm not sure why I had such contrasting experiences.

    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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  27. Link to Post #2794
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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Hi, Ankle Biter. Obviously, describing what right or "correct" meditation really is must be a very long story. I think that seems obvious because traditionally people spent many full-time years with a master teacher of some sort, trying to learn (surely?) to do precisely this. And it does take years -- for everyone, I believe. Not to mention endless work on yourself, throughout those years.

    Also, proper meditation, as I understand it, involves making the (ordinary) mind go quiet (or, at least, soft enough in volume that you have no trouble ignoring it). So it's a type of "not-doing", which may at first sound paradoxical. It involves learning surrender in other ways than that too. But the ultimate fruits of each such type of surrender, when carried out fully enough, are the finding of true joy.

    One remark I should make to begin with, in passing, is that as far as I have seen, very many would-be super-excellent meditators usually aren't quite doing meditation in the optimum way. (I'm glad you brought this question up!) Ideally, they should get some feedback and training on the quality of what they are actually doing, from a master of neditation who, probably, would need to be psychic enough to observe very accurately what they are doing (in the astral worlds and even in the intuitive/soul worlds) when they (supposedly) are meditating very well. Hopefully that master teacher could even telepathically or clairvoyantly or in however way heal the quality of their efforts.

    Traditionally, it was considered that one could learn how to meditate optimally as a result of some sort of "psychic osmosis" of the (higher, or even divine) energy of the guru or master. And this was considered to be done primarily when the guru or master was, explicitly, transmitting kundalini light healing energy to the members of a group that one was in. Also, whenever a guru held darshan, traditionally he was, and today still is, required to "transmit" precisely that, even while also (usually) talking to the group.

    So, the master transmits. But does his or her audience know how to receive that "transmission" fully and truly? Unfortunately, they usually don't. But at least they drink in just a little each time, and hopefully incorporate it into their own being and meditating, thereby lifting their level at least a tiny bit higher in some way. You may have heard how the Buddha chose his successor purely on the basis that the latter individual was the only one who proved able to receive what the Buddha was transmitting in his Sunflower Sermon, which was carried out without the Buddha's physically speaking any words.

    Still, there are certain indicators along the way with regard to what level of quality your meditation has reached. One very major one is that of reaching the point where you have mastery at emptying all thoughts out of your conscious mind and leaving it in a purity or stillness which the ordinary thinking mind's ceaseless chattering can't penetrate into enough to subvert it in any way. From that point you can go into pure looking, pure seeing, instead of being swept along by thinking. Evil forces or entities or whatever can only ever get to you by making you keep thinking about them in some way. So, learn how to hold your mind still, and you can be finished with them forever. I don't know if this answers your issue, Ankle Biter. If it doesn't, there are huge topics to consider here.

    As far as encountering energies or whatever that didn't play nice, it's common to encounter beings or energies in the astral that have deceptive facades, and some who are intentionally mischievous or would like to trap you in some way.. The more fully you manage to hold the stillness in you, the further your perception will penetrate into seeing their true essence. After all, if you found yourself in the seediest area of a large city you weren't familiar with, common sense would tell you to check on what the strangers you came across told you, or perhaps pretended to be.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Thanks TraineeHuman. I believe part of the reason I joined this forum way back was because of these experiences and not knowing anyone that was familiar with what I wanted to talk about or learn more about so I am thankful for your input. This thread too might have been one of the first ones that I sought out as well possibly for some kind of feedback. I kept my question in #2793 somewhat vague and open just so that you could respond from an exogenous point of view and not influenced through any details I might have included.

    Well my beginnings in meditation were very rough as is expected in any new pursuit, a lot of noise, mind wandering on distracting thoughts or sensations in my body etc. But eventually though consistent practice and personalized technique modified on something I read maybe in this book my mind started to go quiet, took me at least the best part of 1 year.

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)
    there are certain indicators along the way with regard to what level of quality your meditation has reached. One very major one is that of reaching the point where you have mastery at emptying all thoughts out of your conscious mind and leaving it in a purity or stillness which the ordinary thinking mind's ceaseless chattering can't penetrate into enough to subvert it in any way.
    As a result of this practice I vividly recall being in states were it felt like my mind was absolutely still and just conscious of being. Most of my meditation I would do at night before bed for what felt like hours, which I reflected on the next day that is because during my meditation I wasn't even thinking about time, sometimes I thought maybe I didn't even (REM) sleep without any feelings of mental or physical fatigue.. quite the opposite! - This notion of stillness of mind feels very much right. Also you may have noticed my signature quoting Lao Tzu which is something that resonated as a deep truth upon reading it the first time. Also because I knew from prior experiences there was a flip side to that coin.

    The initial motivation for going on this learning road was because prior, I experienced accidental OBEs and that's where I met with energies that sought to take something from me. The aim wasn't to get back on the Astral plane via the meditation to engage in some type of spiritual warfare but only to strengthen and be more resolute in the sense of self. So that daily life was more about being than existing and interactions with people, dealing with emotions, general wellness, overcoming addictions etc etc all improved.

    I believe the OBEs were a consequence of improved quality of meditation because they seemed to go hand in hand with the improving state of mental stillness almost on a 1:1 basis. So then after developing and refining the practice into one of better quality did these encounters take on less of a sense of threat or risk but rather subsequent encounters and experiences becoming far more positive and benevolent.

    But all this was a long time ago and since then I've lost much of what I developed. Nowadays, and with the current state of the world, I find myself experiencing similar sensations as I did at the beginning and at other certain low resonating states in my life's journey, as though dark energies were attacking at the gates and trying to get in. Once again I am getting a familiar strong compulsion to reconnect and fortify as before but held some reservation about whether or not my past practices were flawed or lacking in something.

    Your answers therefore have plugged some of the gaps in my thoughts and credit to you for going on the very little that I said and hopefully you understand my reasoning for that. At the same time I welcome any other input/questions or feedback now that we've hashed out some thoughts in more detail. Thanks again TH.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Ankle Biter, you wrote: "But all this was a long time ago and since then I've lost much of what I developed.
    Nowadays, and with the current state of the world, I find myself experiencing similar sensations as I did at the
    beginning and at other certain low resonating states in my life's journey, as though dark energies were attacking
    at the gates and trying to get in. Once again I am getting a familiar strong compulsion to reconnect and fortify as
    before but held some reservation about whether or not my past practices were flawed or lacking in something."

    I have to say no, no, no. I happen to know that the truth is you haven't lost any of what you had.
    I'm very strongly convinced, and have observed, through and with discussion, in other people and in myself, that we
    never lose whatever gains we have made in awareness or spirituality. (Well, with a few rather rare exceptions,
    like if we were to have a lobotomy, or brain damage, and so on. Drugs also often do that, to some extent at
    least.) The trouble is, we make certain achievements (such as being able to astral travel or to spontaneously
    detach and take a bird's-eyeview, or get an accurate over all feel) and then such skills become so second nature to us that we stop noticing that
    we're still doing them. For instance, we no longer need to make a song and dance about exiting our physical body
    because (though we may not realize it at all) we learn to instantly be the seer of the viewpoint of how things look
    outside of our body. So, we often progress to a more subtle (and more "advanced") version of the same thing, but
    it can be so subtle now that we (mistakenly) don't give ourselves any credit for anything like that any more.
    Everyone doing spiritual or psychic development does this. I'm absolutely certain that we don't (normally) lose all
    our spiritual/metaphysical advances, at all. Quite the contrary. We just learn to ignore that they're still
    there, quietly operating as part of us, now. The memory of something is not the thing itself, at all. We're here
    to eventually, at some point, outgrow all of our memories. We move on to noticing or working on other things, where
    we still have challenges. The novelty wears off. We become (very often maybe silent and unrecognised) healers of
    the people we live with and the people we work with. To give one example, there are, for instance, all sorts of
    negative leylines and grids in or around any location, and an experienced meditator or astral traveller / etc will
    over time deactivate them completely, without even needing to consciously put attention on doing that. Of course,
    some (many) individuals will be creating negative energies of one kind or other repeatedly, usually without
    realizing they are, and then that will need to be healed. When you were astral travelling you may have noticed how
    amazingly chaotic the psychic (telepathic) world is because so many individuals are fighting psychic wars with
    their friends or family or coworkers. You probably can't clear all that away because there's ever so much of it
    going on everywhere, but you'll still heal it overall significantly, I assure you, even though you may not even
    notice that you're doing all (or any) of that psychic healing.

    To give a couple of personal examples of other things like this. At the risk of sounding boastful, let me say that
    about thirty or so years ago I somehow became good at experiencing most of my body apparently disappear during deep
    meditation, and eventually even while I was walking or working or doing almost anything in daily life. When in
    meditation, if I tried to look at my chest or certain other areas, I would just see a kind of black hole,that felt
    awfully light too. Also, I learnt to "astral travel" without needing to use an astral (or mental, or causal) body.
    I could just "see" what was there at another location, without needing to go there in some natural "vehicle".
    Also, for decades I would notice that sometimes my body would just have ankles and elbows but a huge apparent hole
    everywhere between. I guess the people who become remote viewers start from having this natural ability too. But
    perhaps the biggest reason why we stop noticing that we have these abilities activated and liberated within us is
    as follows. The spiritual journey is ultimately one of coming down from the mountaintop and into the marketplace.
    So, in the marketplace we focus on adapting to it and achieving hopefully constructive things there. So, in our
    focus the psychic or spiritual abilities are only in the background, making them kind of invisible to ourselves.
    But that doesn't mean they aren't as active as before, just because we're focused on solving practical or mundane
    issues and problems.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 18th August 2021 at 02:39.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I believe you when you say nothing is lost. My appreciation to you for all that you wrote TH and I will contemplate on these thoughts as I navigate through the marketplace.



    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    I'd like to add just a small piece of information about the question: how does one best and most fully and correctly receive the guru's "water of life" that is the kundalini light healing he or she is emanating?

    There's that (true) saying of Jesus that to those who already have shall even more be given, and to them the most will be given. You may say that's no help or encouragement to the ones who need it the most. But I would reiterate how we (normally) don't ever lose what we've gained in our best spiritual experiences and in our other personal breakthroughs. So, yes, you should be able to "receive" more fully even if today or this week happens to be one of those times when things in your life seem overwhelming.

    So, go and do that meditation retreat or whatever even though the "high" you get from it doesn't last -- or, rather, I would say it only doesn't seem to last because it will have lifted you permanently onto a somewhat higher level, which now deceptively feels like it's back to "normal" and "everyday". That old coward the human mind is a strange thing. It has an enormous ability to kid itself to your own disadvantage.
    Last edited by TraineeHuman; 20th August 2021 at 07:43.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    In a few posts, often some time ago, I've talked about the formless worlds, or about formlessness. In this post I'd like to give you more examples of instances of the concept of formlessness in Western thought.

    To begin with, though, I'd like to point out that one Western concept I've already talked about a little that's a good example of formlessness is the concept of an infinity. This is a very, very central concept in mathematics. (And it's used with little consideration of what it may truly mean in reality.) In various ways, it is what a considerable part of modern pure mathematics is about (as I'll elaborate on a little further below). Physicists and astronomers and NASA-type workers and so on utilize mathematics (if only through their use of scientific computers) to try to increase their knowledge regarding the physical universe. In so doing, they are automatically referencing mathematical concepts of infinity, such as that of a limit (which involves the concept of the infinitely small). Yes, even the notion of the infinitely small inextricably involves formlessness because it involves reference to "infinitely".

    Just by the way, the concept of a "limit" in the mathematical sense was formulated and implemented by Leibniz. Leibniz was, among other things, the long-time Head of the German Masons. His biggest dream and hope was of the future creation of "universal calculating machines". Of course, we now know these as computers or AI. He believed these would be able to answer literally every question and tell us how to solve literally all our problems, and generally tell us how to live best. (Sounds to me like an early version of scientism. And coming from the head of the Masons!) He revived formal logic, and helped ensure its development continued into the future. He knew that one day it would provide the necessary mathematicological "language" that would underpin the savior universal super-calculating machines.

    Getting back to formlessness, may I suggest to you that the notion of "(empty) space' always involves formlesness? Actually it does also involve SOME qualities of structure mixed in there. The nineteenth century mathematician/physicist Riemann (and NOT Einstein in the twentieth century, who was just stealing the credit for Riemann's work here) basically proved that space is normally "curved" in certain ways.

    Aristotle had pointed out that physical reality was (supposedly) made out of form, "matter," and space. The trouble was, though, that whenever physicists looked into what matter was, all they ultimately ever found was more forms plus empty space. Eventually, it became clear that all matter was an illusion. Quarks or strings or whatever weren't matter, but they were interrelations, or placeholders. So, then, according to physics, the physical world is made out of forms and certain types of formlessness.

    There are many, many other ways we encounter formlessness that I could describe. But maybe this is enough to start with. Well, just one more. Many mathematicians consider a man named Tarski to have been the leading mathematician of the twentieth century. This is because of his famous indefinability theorem. What it proves is that the very concept of truth is itself absolutely indefinable.
    Above all, always refuse to cut your life in two: nonduality/duality, matter/Spirit, etc
    A mind which is not crippled by memory has real freedom. ~ J. Krishnamurti
    (True, deep) stillness is the way.

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    Default Re: The Higher Self and transcendent experience, including OBEs

    Quote Posted by TraineeHuman (here)

    Getting back to formlessness, may I suggest to you that the notion of "(empty) space' always involves formlesness? Actually it does also involve SOME qualities of structure mixed in there.
    There was a short video I shared a few days back which the motivation for sharing was along the lines of what I think you're expressing in your post here TH. There's the crazy big macro and the crazy small micro.. particularly the comparison of a nutrino, itself so so so small, but as large as the observable universe when compared to the Planck length...or just a regular hydrogen atom being essentially 99.9999% empty space, almost as good as saying there's nothing there!

    Yet we are surrounded by form and structure expressed in it's pure form as geometry. Take for instance a circle.. geometrically and aesthetically it is perfect. Everything about its form says balance and precision yet in the underlying it is hinged on infinity. The ratio of the circumference to the diameter.. pi. And in the platonic solids you'll find all manner of irrational numbers such as golden ratio etc. Infinities are everywhere if nowhere. My hat goes off to those very out there thinking mathematicians you've mentioned, also people like Leonhard Euler & Srinivasa Ramanujan who were wonderful counters of things and tried to find the bridges between these seemingly disjointed yet inseparable concepts.

    When computing power came in to the mix and Benoit Mandelbrot entered the arena picking up from Gaston Julia, we got visual representations of the fruit what Cantor called 'Mathematical monsters' producing fractals. Contained within the landscape of infinite chaos is order again, like Fibonacci series, and other precise sequences on which our dominant perception of reality is constructed. Shape, order, balance etc.

    So then if I can circle back to what we discussed in post 2793 regards to 'proper meditation'.. one of the ways I like to get there is during breathing and just before getting started I'll quickly survey around the room to pick something at random (let's say lamp) and observe the 'form'. Getting a feel in the mind's eye of not just its shape but the order surrounding that and the rigid rules that govern its symmetry etc.. where all sorts of infinities surround it, only to understand that these exist because of something that is intuitively nonsensical and made of stuff that might not even be there.... one could go round and round forever back and forth. hence the only viable thing is to let go.

    .... from there a state of consciousness of empty (different from the empty where the chatter is removed).. emptying of form leaving only state of 'is' to experience. If it is even anything at all.
    To the mind that is still, the whole universe surrenders. -Lao Tzu

    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.

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