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Thread: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

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    Default Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Metaphysics or the Sacred Sciences are the same thing. New Age thought is not. The New Age is a parasitical construct feeding off of the ancient wisdoms and crafted for the TV generation and the new education where everybody gets a gold star for breathing. Accomplishments are not necessary because peoples self esteem is involved and the concern for hurt feelings exceeds the concern for knowing where one stands when measurements are taken. Success is measured by the amount of dollars one can accrue. Quantity of output matters more than quality. People get bored without another hit of fast food knowledge that is easily parroted.

    The New Age is a tentacle of the PTB. Plenty to buy, plenty of seminars to attend while the TSA gropes you getting there. The New Age empties ones pockets while softening people up for constant "loosh" production. Where did the concept of white light come from? Not a Metaphysician. White light has all colors in it and is an equal opportunity energetic food. Then we have love. Love, the fierce protective, "I will kill anyone who tries to harm my child" kind of love or Def Leppard, "Pour Some Sugar On Me" syrupy kind of love? To be sure I used extremes here. It is the common language to posit only polarities. It is how an unintegrated brain works. One lobe dominating at a time, usually the left since the Renaissance or Age of Enlightenment shifted our way of considering the Cosmos.

    Wizard types had it much easier before this age. Dominant right brain processing allows for the world of archetype to live in all of its glory. Superstition abounds in right brain dominant thinking. The waking and dream worlds have more blurred lines. Suggestion works like........magic. Oh yes, the other magical workers, the priestly class also had it much easier. They liked their people illiterate. Not only were they free to interpret text to their advantage, but literacy cultivates left brain development. Critical thinking, the bane of all who would lead by mumbo jumbo. Speaking of mumbo jumbo, back to the New Age.

    So, what is New Age mumbo jumbo for the literate left-brained person of today? It speaks to the emotional body. The part of us that can't think, is not made to think. So, words are crafted to go straight to the emotional body, negatively or positively, and bypass the reasoning faculties. The New Age priests now have you under control again.

    Metaphysics were what we had before Christianity dominated and threw out all the wisdom accumulated and left for posterity by the "Pagans". The New Age of its' time,(Christianity of which the new age blends with other traditions) one needed no real knowledge a savior would manage everything for you. No need to be literate or trouble oneself with things. The Dark Ages began and we fell into superstition and right brain dominance. Right brain dominance is still very much with us in portions of the modern world. It is a relatively pure form in places like rural Afghanistan. I use there because it is familiar. There are myriad other places to use. The USA has it in much of the bible belt and an even stranger form of it in some of the mega churches where literate people who have reasonable intellect are caught up in superstition that effectively splits them into two. Living in a modern world at the same time as inhabiting an emotional world of based in another time.

    The main purpose of this thread is to begin to tease apart the conflated concepts of New Age and Metaphysics from each other. I was moved to start this thread from a few impulses, but a reply from CdnSirian to 9eagle9's comments about emotional bodies was important. CdnSirian remarked that people can't deal with something they don't know they have. Well, since Project Avalon is where science and spirituality meet it is time some of us took it upon ourselves to remedy the situation. In the general population, the ones we are wont to remark about often, I can understand not knowing about emotional bodies. In a forum where UFO's, channeling, and conversations of dimensions and energies are regularly had, ignorance of the subtle anatomy and how it affects us is not OK. We have a situation where an opposing force with bad intent is a focus of many a conversation. The main warlocks amongst them are well versed in all of this. Does anyone think ignorance of the energetic realms they work in will help move our cause forward? They work where we live. Always at all times. They live to manipulate your emotional body, loosh or no loosh. (google loosh, it's right there).

    So, in my next post, after this one has been digested a bit and reception of it gauged, a discussion of the basic subtle anatomy and how if affects us and why we need to know about it.

    This is offered in love to those who want it. It is the fierce kind.

    This post speaks to that kind of love.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post608897
    Last edited by modwiz; 2nd January 2013 at 08:33.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    There are some interesting problems facing us with both physics and/or meta-physics:

    1) We don't know everything because we have finite brains, finite processing capacity, in an infinite universe - the best we can do is tune in to a set of truth

    2) No matter how hard we all try, we each have different understandings (meant in a literal sense)

    3) Someone who thinks they know something, cannot always easily communicate it to someone else who they think does not - and they may not be correct anyway.

    Thus there are gaps in understanding, ripe for some to exploit in the unwary - hence the saying that "knowledge is power".

    In the midst of all this:

    a) we all, in some degree or other, seek truth

    b) we serve/love either ourselves or other-selves and the ratio between how much we do of each defines us and our future path
    Last edited by Anchor; 2nd January 2013 at 05:40.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Absolutely, the material lust that now is imbued on the Far East substantiates the failures of the paradigm of New-Age "ness". The propriety left brain embrace anticipated has apparently waned unexpectedly much to the chagrin of the exploiters. It still has some heat though the fire of the new market is dampened.

    The PTB have burnt their bridges here in the west, as you rightly point out, the right brain perception is now stepping to the fore. Not unexpected. When the left brain organism and belief system fails, which it is or has, then the natural response is to invoke the core base instincts and invoke that which is viable by what is imaginable, the right brain method.

    Look forward to your follow up.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Looking forward to the next post. Was thinking about this today. I'm listening.

    Sexy hat.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by Snoweagle (here)
    Absolutely, the material lust that now is imbued on the Far East substantiates the failures of the paradigm of New-Age "ness". The propriety left brain embrace anticipated has apparently waned unexpectedly much to the chagrin of the exploiters. It still has some heat though the fire of the new market is dampened.

    The PTB have burnt their bridges here in the west, as you rightly point out, the right brain perception is now stepping to the fore. Not unexpected. When the left brain organism and belief system fails, which it is or has, then the natural response is to invoke the core base instincts and invoke that which is viable by what is imaginable, the right brain method.

    Look forward to your follow up.
    Briefly: As welcome as becoming aware of the right brain and the poetry/wholistic nature of it is, to much a return is to re-submerge into superstition and mumbo jumbo. We would be well advised to keep our relatively new developed left brain intact, but to hook it in parallel up to right brain function. It is in the sythesis of the two that we will find wholeness and be able to perceive yin/yang in action.

    A quick aside to wholism versus holism. Words are spells, so spelling is important. Holism has a hole in it and is a new age term. Surprise.
    Wholism is what holism is trying to steal from, both in being a counter-spell(ing) and in the pretense that is is whole when it is shot through with holes. Metaphysics is whole-istic science and spirituality. Holism is pseudo or partial science and NWO spirituality. No spiritual tradition is left intact or "whole" instead we get a little Christianity, some Buddhism, Taoism (Yin/Yang) East and West shaman traditions and Native American traditions. When one realizes that the Lakota use the womb-like Inipi and the Iroquois us a sauna like hut, you see there is no "Native" tradition per se. The Americas had nations with their own traditions and languages. Lumping them together is very hole-istic.

    This is just a reply and not my follow up.
    Last edited by modwiz; 2nd January 2013 at 08:37.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Excellent!

    Finally some subject matter worth paying attention to... I'm al ears..

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by D-DAY (here)
    Excellent!

    Finally some subject matter worth paying attention to... I'm al ears..
    Thank you. I hope all are aware of the thread by Vivek here:https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post606382

    This is an opus that is a parallel to this discussion. It is rich in science that can be used for metaphysics. It is an excellent balance for right brained thinking because it is presented in a way that the pieces marry together. It is Olympic strength intellectual swimming. It is also getting some excellent contributions from some of Avalons' other treasures.
    There is also Carmody's The Question of Lithium thread for the very intrepid. Plenty of gold there, except it requires Olympic strength intellectual swimming in shark infested waters. Metaphorically speaking, of course. A Bachelors in various sciences would help too.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post192251
    Last edited by modwiz; 2nd January 2013 at 04:45.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Metyphysics is nonsense, but even then it must be serving some purpose, otherwise, why would it have existed for so long?

    Man finds himself helpless in a strange world, unfamiliar - not only unknown, but unknowable to boot. This darkness, this cloud of unknowing, disturbs the human mind tremendously. Somehow man consoles himself. Somehow he has to create knowledge. Something he can cling to... Something he can identify with... Otherwise, the reality will hit him squarely in the face - the reality that he doesn't know who he is, this will drive him into madness - at least that is the fear that his thinking mind will use to prod him into creating more & more nonsense around himself.

    Even if that knowledge is not true knowledge, it will give the appearance that one is grounded. It will give the appearance that one is not so helpless. One pretends through it, pretends to know, pretends to be a knower, a knowledgeable intellectual, that he is not such a stranger to himself, to the world he finds himself in... and creates a false illusion of power in the process.
    Quote Words are spells...
    Words are spells only out of ignorance. Only out of a belief that they are powerful.

    Awareness is enough to put an end to a bad dream.

    -*-
    Last edited by turiya; 2nd January 2013 at 05:28.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

    It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

    This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

    I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

    With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

    For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

    Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

    Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Greetings, Bredren. I was so surprised to see this topic that I had to go to your profile to check and see when the last time you started a topic was.

    It was in March of 2012. You start so few topics that when you do, I find it important to pay attention.

    This topic is a direct assault against relativism. Against the "New Age Mumbo-Jumbo". Against holism and perhaps also synthesis, which has the word synthetic hidden in it, apropos of artificial, not natural or genuine, contrived.

    I have posted consistently regarding the relativity of perception, the need to understand all points of view and allow for them and the perceived underlying unity of religious and spiritual traditions to the extent that they all encompass some fundamental reality, attempt to explain it and provide a pathway forward for those within those traditions, bounded tightly by their cultural parameters which blinker them, create separation and encourage fear-based thinking and being. A perfect cover for you-know-who to divide and conquer, and through so doing, reinforce the culture of pyramidal control. I have found it necessary to write on this topic in particular, here, in order to express the reality that we share more in common than we do apart.

    With that said, when it comes down to it, metaphysics is indeed hard work. There was a reason a lot of the information that we possess today was secret. And it was not all because the PTB were in charge and they wanted to keep the truth from the masses. It was because most people were not ready for it. It was because it was and is dangerous. It was because metaphysics was and is the key to true sovereignty and re-integration with the whole.

    For those who have an intellectual understanding of metaphysics as some abstract collection of old sayings and directives, of pithy one-liners and amorphous pie-in-the-sky meanderings, spit out by dissipative, meditating lotus-eaters, their characterization of it as such is indicative of the truly staggering and mind-blowing nature of the topic. And it is also indicative of the truth that they themselves have not experienced these deeper waters personally and determined for themselves the truth of the matter, or the fundamental Nowness of their submersion within an illusory format of being that only barely indicates the depth and nature of that which lies beneath.

    Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.

    Because I want to see where you are going with this, and participate further with greater knowledge of the terrain you're laying out, I will sit back now and eat popcorn for a while. I eagerly await what comes next.
    You are one of the treasures I was referring to in Vivek's thread. I was hoping you would join in. One purpose of this thread is to have something running in parallel to Vivek's with a mind to a more remedial approach. I will not chide others for not being "up to speed". I will instead share what is mine to offer. I hope for an organic "council of wisdom" to flower from this to the benefit of all. I only ask that what is shared is for consuption for growth and not to demonstrate that one has knowledge. I do not start many threads because they can be misinterpreted as egoic regurgitant instead of the offerings of love they are intended to be. I type poorly and slowly and would be just as glad for someone else to undertake this education. I am up to it, so waiting for another to do it is not personally acceptable to me.

    You are a prolific and informed person whose input will not be regarded as crowding but rather someone coming to the panel because it will enrich all.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Here us a post that I wrote in the Simon Parkes thread. Rather than link to it I will copy and paste it with the link. It is a small blurb on subtle bodies.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post591594

    Quote I have a little more writing energy tonight so it came to me to post something that resonates strong with me. Our subtle anatomy, the subtle bodies, play a huge part in our lives and existence. One of the markedly different subtle aspects of humans and many other races is the emotional body. We humans not only have one, it is often overdeveloped, at least in contrast and balance to the intellectual or mental body. Many other species seems to have either underdeveloped/atrophied/non-existent emotional bodies or predominant mental bodies. It is my personal understanding that the balance, or ratio, of emotional to mental body "strength" is crucial for proper spiritual development. Balancing the 4th and 5th subtle bodies (4 and 5 for reference here) creates a "lens" that allows for the proper conduction of the ethers (in)to allow the spiritual body (6th) to become fully integrated or functionally operative. When the 4th,5th and 6th subtle bodies are in alignment the 7th or causal body can come into play.

    With that said, it seems that the Mantids are very developed in their mental bodies. The reptilians seem far more complicated in their mix. Without getting into describing off world races that I am not particularly conversant about, and incurring a lesson from OnyxKnight , I will just say/opine that the more spiritually oriented races seem balanced in their emotional and mental bodies. They feel and have compassion ,but are not the emotional wrecks many humans are. They seem possessed of a keen intellect, something missing from the mass of humanity. I am not ruling out the possibility that an engineered worker human was purposely bred with a lesser intellect and only nobles who couldn't keep their pants up for the pretty peasant girl have spoiled the plan for a retarded/intellectually compromised common person.

    Just some ideas/beliefs/concepts I thought to share.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    In chinese medicine tradition nothing is written in vain. A thing I for long time didn't find complete was the following: it is said that Qi rises via the left side of the body and descends via the right side. Common explanation is linked to the Liver - its topmost tip crosses the midline of the body, and therefore as the Liver Qi rises from there, it dominates all rising. Also left side is considered Yin, to compliment the Yang of the rising sun from the east, when facing south, the movement of the Yin being upwards et .. There are many overlapping movements of Qi, but this has been the only one I had for long not been satisfied with.

    One night it dawned on me how one could imagine the energy of the earth rise via the left, dominating the left hemisphere, resulting in down to earth-like functions of the left side of the brain. At the same time the heavenly, let's say solar or cosmic energy is descending through right hemisphere down to earth, creating the intuitive, wholistic(hope I don't drop the ball here) concepts and thoughtforms of the right side of the brain.

    Now I am quite certain that these energies also spiral, but let's see if anyone is intrigued by what I find injecting more substance to this chinese medicine concept, and if it can add any value to this thread, which I thank you Modwiz very much for!

    UT

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    I think it is lively discussion or the creative principle which can become lost in the "written word".

    The cherished writings can become overly dominant. Cast in stone. Creativity in physics or metaphysics can be stopped. Writings or works can become the traps used by orthodoxy. To use as population controls.

    This has happened inside any popular subject. Just as in the currency of commerce-- As soon as there is an abundant cash flow, the sharks and parasites want increasing domination.

    I just happened to hear a conjecture that Socrates "criticized books" or loss of oratory? No... (paraphrasing Chris Hedges' reply, scroll to minute 8 or 9) ....No, It was rather concern that orthodoxy would come to dominate a thought process... Ending live discussion bearing creative thoughts... So i don't need to get that quote annotated precisely. Rather just carry on.

    ~wav

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    Australia Avalon Member Anchor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by Rahkyt (here)
    Words are indeed spells. Sound is power. Vibration is energy in movement. These are fundamental realities of our existence. To cast the power of enunciation of the knowledge of etymology to the 4 winds as if they were no more than gaseous emanations of the bowels and intestines is to disempower self and the inherent power of creation in favor of intellectual masturbation.
    This is key insight and makes me want to mention intent.

    Intent decides how this power moves.

    On reflection "decides" isn't the right word, they sort of happen simultaneously, intent and the movement of the wheels of the universe associate with that intent happen out of time.
    Last edited by Anchor; 2nd January 2013 at 08:58. Reason: added something

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    The dolphin brain! Will submit more material as the thread progresses. This thread will provide education for those of us that that relish it. Thank you Modwiz for this opportunity to share.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by wavydome (here)
    I think it is lively discussion or the creative principle which can become lost in the "written word".

    The cherished writings can become overly dominant. Cast in stone. Creativity in physics or metaphysics can be stopped. Writings or works can become the traps used by orthodoxy. To use as population controls.

    This has happened inside any popular subject. Just as in the currency of commerce-- As soon as there is an abundant cash flow, the sharks and parasites want increasing domination.

    I just happened to hear a conjecture that Socrates "criticized books" or loss of oratory? No... (paraphrasing Chris Hedges' reply, scroll to minute 8 or 9) ....No, It was rather concern that orthodoxy would come to dominate a thought process... Ending live discussion bearing creative thoughts... So i don't need to get that quote annotated precisely. Rather just carry on.

    ~wav
    This is not so much about dogma, right/wrong. The written word is what we have in this forum and it is the medium for idea conveyance. Written in stone is a corny idea anyway.LOL I treat my organic knowledge base like a hard drive. I write, copy, paste and of equal importance, I delete. It stays while it works and gets edited or deleted as needed.

    A big problem that has revealed itself is thinking with the emotional body. Apparently, this simple concept is jibberish to many. This is working very well for certain people. The tower of babble serves those who benefit from confusion. This thread is no more than the equivalent of knowing poisonous snakes from non-poisonous ones. That is, useful information to help one navigate safely. No metaphor here. Proper thinking requires a cool head with a minimum of hormonal releases. The emotional body is a hormone producing one. Hormonal cascades do not help clear thinking and the varying neuro chemical shifts produces effects bordering on multiple personalities. In the end we not only disagree with each other, we disagree with other parts of our selves. I consider that not productive. The results are in the world, friends and family surrounding us. Dysfunction is the norm. It is accepted as the norm. This is not a good thing.
    Last edited by modwiz; 2nd January 2013 at 10:07.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    The emotional body produces either a fight or flight response, so it is much less complex than the intellectual body.
    Because of this simplicity it is also much faster than the intellect. It only needs to decide between like and dislike.
    On the other hand, intellect can see a variety of options, which go further into the future...
    sees the consequences of different courses of actions. Precision is needed here.
    Metaphysics is largely about precision. Without it there can be no real results.

    Precision-based planning is laborious, and most people, for lack of time, stay with the simpler route of responding to life in an emotional, or even instinctive way. Most don't seem to mind that this leaves a messy trail.

    Am I allowed to ramble? I gather this thread allows for experimental thoughts.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by ulli (here)
    The emotional body produces either a fight or flight response, so it is much less complex than the intellectual body.
    Because of this simplicity it is also much faster than the intellect. It only needs to decide between like and dislike.
    On the other hand, intellect can see a variety of options, which go further into the future...
    sees the consequences of different courses of actions. Precision is needed here.
    Metaphysics is largely about precision. Without it there can be no real results.

    Precision-based planning is laborious, and most people, for lack of time, stay with the simpler route of responding to life in an emotional, or even instinctive way. Most don't seem to mind that this leaves a messy trail.

    Am I allowed to ramble? I gather this thread allows for experimental thoughts.
    Thoughtful rambling works for me. I think, not feel, that the emotional body has quite few variations on response. Fight or flight being the obvious seeming polarities. Flight or fight are really the same adrenal response and have basically identical physiological profile. Bottom line here is, blood goes to muscles and is pulled from viscera and the all but needed parts of the brain. The result is a brutish, primitive avatar. One that is almost atavisitic. How is that for some word magic? It's in the words, I did nothing.

    It is not my intention to cast the emotional body, or emotions, in a negative light. It is my intention to shine some light into an area that is not taught and one that people will often not know it would be wise to teach themselves. I hope to give some basics and have a little go a long way.

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    Default Re: Metaphysics:Where Science and Spirituality Meet

    Quote Posted by DNA (here)
    I think the dichotomy you are describing is between those who have done the work and those who are repeating the results of people who have done the work and think it is the same thing. Spiritual advancement is a solitary undertaking with gains being made through subtraction.
    I do not see a dichotomy where there is a lack, unless there isn't. Ignorance is reasonable without information. Willful ignorance is something that cannot be enabled and is best seen for the ballast it is. At that point we know who does not wish to be part of the solution. It is helpful to not have to listen to distractive noise. There's an adults room and a children's room. Let people decide which one they are. By their fruits we will know them. There has been talk of bullying and being mean. When reasonable attempts to explain how much of this is contrived and the emotional body has been brought up, it now surfaces that this is an unknown terminology to many/some. It would "mean' of those who can address this deficit to withhold this important and useful information.

    I agree that the important integrative work is a solitary undertaking. Introduction to tools and concepts is done well in groups. Seminars are very popular and bear some fruit.

    Time for this owl to roost.

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