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Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    -------

    Well! There's no harm in being ambitious.

    The thread title is a [bit of a] joke. My intention here is to lay some basic principles out clearly -- in terms of what is and what isn't. It's intended to be a kind of A-B-C-1-2-3. Any criticisms of what this is all about can go on to another thread. My purpose here is to explain stuff so that the critics are at least well-informed.



    This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

    For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

    In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

    And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

    I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

    ***

    I have never been in the Church of Scientology, and am considered by them to be one of their enemies. I went there, in London, back in 1984 for a couple of weeks for some "Book One" auditing. (This was after I had done Werner Erhard's est Training, and was driven to discover where all of Erhard's extraordinarily powerful techniques came from. It was almost all scientology.)

    "Book One" auditing is basic 1950-style auditing, based on Hubbard's seminal book, Dianetics, the Modern Science of Mental Health. I can post it later in PDF format. There was no meter involved. The book was designed to enable "Mr and Mrs Everyman" to 'audit' each other with no reliance on any organization.

    The Organization came later, after Hubbard was inundated with questions and requests for further information. He founded scientology (literally: "the science of knowing how to know") as protection from the American Medical Association, who wanted to hang Hubbard from the highest tree for "practicing psychotherapy without a license".

    Hubbard was also loudly critical of psychiatric techniques and drug prescription, and so earned himself few friends in Washington. The 'Church' was never a religious organization. It was just a protective device. Jim Humble (also a ex-scientologist), the inventor of MMS, is doing exactly the same thing now, and calls himself a Bishop. Humble, like Hubbard, was just intent on not ending up in jail.

    Back to my personal experience. I had 40 hours of "Book One Auditing", and was mightily impressed, It cut through my life junk like a knife through butter. And then when I looked around me, saw the 'Church' environment and the quality of the people involved, I realized straight away that something was badly wrong.

    As synchronicity would have it, I immediately met someone who had left the Church who told me about the 'Free Zone', and explained about the takeover a few years earlier. All was explained. After that I never returned, and never looked back.

    I opened up my past lives, cleared the backlog of charge from this-lifetime upsets, and started to develop my suppressed abilities. The principle here is one of "negative gain". One removes emotional charge, like scrubbing burned food off a dirty pan, and underneath -- guess what! -- it's all bright and shiny.

    The abilities were there all along, but were suppressed underneath the mountain of collected stuff. All of that is the by-product of incomplete business.

    I discovered for myself the following:

    We humans are all in a 'fallen state'. Long, long ago, we all used to -- as beings -- be gods, as it were: creators, manifesters, dolphins playing together joyfully in the universal sea. As we accumulated more and more unfinished business --- basically, things that we'd not taken responsibility for and never cleaned up -- we 'solidified' until we can no longer remember who we are or the way things once were. And we've all been around for WAY longer than the 'Big Bang'.

    Auditing, which is a simple, structured, question-and-answer process ('auditing' simply means 'listening'), removes this 'emotional charge', and these blocks. Gradually -- in most cases, over a period of years -- one starts to remember and recover who one really is.

    Nothing is judged or evaluated by the auditor (or should be). One's realizations are all one's own. The sovereignty of one's experience is (or should be) paramount.

    The e-meter is a tool, like a pendulum but far more exact, that assists the auditor in locating areas of 'available' charge. In itself it does nothing. The meter is not even necessary, but it does help the auditor to locate 'stuff' more precisely.

    There's a kind of sequence involved. At first, in the earliest stages of auditing, in most cases one is focused on one's life as a human being: issues with family, work, the usual things that people might talk to a counselor about.

    But as these problems get handled, one's attention almost always goes on to larger and deeper issues: Who am I? Where did I come from? What am I doing here on Planet Earth? What is my personal mission? How can I best help others?

    As one progresses, cleans more and more layers of charge off, and rehabilitates lost abilities, one acquires tools (which in other situations might be called 'white-magical' or 'good-shamanic') which enable one to assist others remotely at a distance.

    These are not mysterious in any way, but are part of our lost birthright. We can all do this stuff. What one also realizes when these states are reached are that the same tools are used for evil purposes by those with dark agendas -- and have been for thousands of years here on this planet.

    In that manner, the whole issue then becomes transformed from "How can I help myself so that life doesn't hurt so much?" to "How can I help defeat the forces of evil that are destroying the planet?"

    Back to Hubbard. I never knew him (he was way before my time), but I did know 'Captain' Bill Robertson -- known as 'Captain Bill' or 'CBR' to his friends. CBR was a remarkable, totally ethical, and very powerful man. He twice wrote down the winning German lottery numbers, but refused to buy a ticket as he insisted that it would be unethical to use his abilities in that way. He had a huge presence, and was a natural leader and inspirer.

    CBR left the Church in 1982, as part of the great exodus that was partly precipitated by Dane Tops. (Read his interview transcript here.) CBR moved to Europe, founded what he called "Ron's Org" in 1984, and with another ex-Church and highly trained auditor, Ulrich Kramer, researched a number of missing techniques that LRH had either never discovered, or never made public. Those techniques opened the door to a great number of people to develop themselves in ways that they had never believed possible.

    I myself connected with Ron's Org in 1988, and it was immediately obvious to me that this was the 'way out'. Now, Ron's Org primarily exists in Europe and Russia (astonishingly to many, there are more highly trained and able Ron's Org scientologists in Russia than anywhere else), though there are small groups of very highly trained people in America and South Africa. I know many of them personally. Some of them are the highest quality and most able human beings it has ever been my privilege to know.

    Hubbard (LRH) was clearly a flawed man -- and many great people are. I am not qualified to judge him as a person or as a family man: only assess his legacy. My consideration of his legacy does not include the Church itself, which grew to became a huge aberration.

    Hubbard's techniques -- the basics of which he mainly developed in the first few years of the 1950s, when he was at his most intuitively brilliant -- work, and can sometimes work miraculously. They take training and dedication to apply: but then (ask any Buddhist!), so do many other spiritual disciplines.

    I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)


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    Mexico Avalon Member seko's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Bill, are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??

    How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??
    Breathe in the air

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by seko (here)
    Are you awake or in a trance when the auditor is asking the questions ??
    100% totally awake. There's no relation to hypnosis.

    Quote Posted by seko (here)
    How often can you practice this, daily, weekly??
    As often as one wants to. Sometimes one can do several sessions daily.

    One is also not dependent on an auditor. After a while, one can graduate to solo auditing, which is when one's auditing oneself totally at one's own determinism. It's like asking yourself a question, and then noting one's own answer. One does not have to talk to another person -- but it does take a little training and practice.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th May 2013 at 20:08.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Bill, thank you for explaining and simplifying this messed up charged up issue!

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    ------

    A little more in answer to seko above:
    • One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
    • When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Is this practical for the newer generations?
    I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
    is this true?
    Last edited by dpwishy; 19th May 2013 at 20:47.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by dpwishy (here)
    Is this practical for the newer generations of us?
    I have read it may not be needed for indigo children,
    is this true?
    I would say it's very practical (and so, again, may be many other support tools).

    The problem when arriving on Planet Earth is the amnesia. Indigo Children often have quite a hard time of it (rejection by the other kids, and bad parenting when they're not at all understood. Many parents fear unusual children!).

    Auditing is one of the tools that can assist Indigos and other prodigies (of any age) to remember who they are and why they're here.

    Many may not need it! And some others will go very rapidly and cut through it all very fast, in ways that someone experiencing auditing in the 1950s might not dream of.

    Another factor to remember is that some prodigies are simply new arrivals on Planet Earth. This can mean that they find a lot of 'human' stuff upsetting and bewildering. Auditing is a tool that can skim away the emotional charge from all of that.

    A further factor -- and this may feel off-the-wall for some -- is that some gifted children got a lot of auditing in their last lifetime, which has helped them return in this incarnation in pretty good shape. Many teenagers and young people in their early 20s have appeared at the Ron's Orgs in Germany and Russia, and quickly discovered that they had been in the subject for many years in their last lifetime, now eager to continue.

    Whether or not one believes this, this is what has been reported many times. It's rather like a Lama in Tibet returning to the monastery to continue their spiritual path after being reborn. This happens in many disciplines, of course, and is not confined to Buddhism or scientology.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th May 2013 at 20:59.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I've heard that long ago, there was a problem with earths gravity wave, our ancestors did something and didn't correct the wave problem, the result , was a split mind... since that time, everyone born here is born with a split mind... it created a block to past lives ... when you can unite the mind=past lives stored in all of us is available... you remember what you forgot ... to me remebering past lives is important , look at what one can accomplish when you know all the wrong turns and wrong outcomes...I don't fully understand auditing, but it seems based on what you've said it is important, I'm going to research to see where fate leads me... thanks Bill... I love a treasure hunt ...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Bill, thanks for sharing your viewpoint on this! A few quick (?) questions:

    I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One? Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?

    How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all? When I couldn't find the original Dianetics book, I researched working with Cannon. Her waitlist is years long at this point and sadly, meeting with one of her student's teachers did not work for me. But I do wonder if there is any cross between.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by TalkingFish; 19th May 2013 at 21:58.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote •When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.
    Thanx for clearing up and giving your perspective Bill, the general forum is almost drowning on Sci threads so it seems to be a hot topic this past few weeks, and I avoided them because I am hopelessly ill informed about the subject, part because of the confusion about the pro and con povs on scientology and what I feel is a diluted or purposely kept back info, I am very interested in the auditing methodology in its self.

    Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?
    When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?
    Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?
    Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?
    Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?

    Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.

    Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?

    Thanks in advance Bill.

    Ed

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by TalkingFish (here)
    Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?
    Will do, with pleasure, when I get back to my backup disks in a few hours' time.

    Quote Posted by TalkingFish (here)
    Or do you have recommendations on legit auditing centers?
    http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

    For contacts elsewhere, send me a PM and let me know where you are. Many are not listed on that page.

    Quote Posted by TalkingFish (here)
    How does this relate to Dolores Cannon's method, if at all?
    I'm afraid I have no strong idea. Many therapists practicing regression use variants of Dianetics, without even knowing that that's what they're doing. The technique is really extremely simple, so it's not surprising.

    But it is important to work with someone you trust and feel at ease with. That may be more valuable than anything else -- apart from finding a person/technique that ONLY accesses your own knowingness about yourself -- and does not suggest ideas and perceptions of their own.

    That's really critical. Or else you may find yourself 'front-loaded' by someone else's notions, and then when you come up with something yourself you'll never know whether it was your own memory or not. So in that sense, the regression methodology can make a real difference.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by 778 neighbour of some guy (here)
    Some questions I have are, who is considered to be a good experienced auditor?
    There's an accredited list: http://ronsorg.com/english/linksenglish.htm

    But as I mentioned above, there are also many who are not listed there (including those in the US and South Africa). Send me a PM with your whereabouts, and I'll see if I can help.

    Quote When is an auditor a good auditor and how can a newbie tell this is the case?
    Great question. Personal recommendation would be the only real way, as in the case with many therapists.

    Quote Auditing questions, do the auditor and audited agree upon a subject that needs/requires addressing?
    There is almost always agreement (because the meter measures charge, and charge and personal attention are almost always closely linked). In other words, something you have a lot of attention on and really would like to be handled will almost certainly 'read' just as strongly on the meter. If there is any difference, then a good auditor would (or should!) always regard your own interest as senior and definitive.

    Quote Is there a checklist to walk one through top to bottom to streamline the process, is there a particular order in it or does one together with the auditor address what you bump in to?
    At first, in initial stages, the auditor will (or should) work with your interest. See above.

    In almost all cases, one first completes what is known as "Life Repair" -- which is, as the name suggests, a general clean-up of people and events and incidents in one's life that have left charge behind. (These could include traumatic childhood incidents, losses, deaths of people you loved, relationship issues, heavy disappointments, physical injuries, etc.) Many people on completing Life Repair consider that their lives now feel very different, and this can take anything between 10-50 hours. (And that's a rather wild guess, as this is of course so individualized.)

    Often, in Life Repair, past life stuff comes up. That's because incidents occur in 'chains', each sitting on top of and locked into an earlier one (if there IS an earlier one).

    An example of this might be if one fell out of a tree when one was a child and broke one's leg, and no-one came to help. One could 'run' this incident, and it might 'erase' (i.e. the charge might vanish completely: this happens sometimes).

    But often, the charge will NOT immediately vanish, because there's an earlier, similar incident. That might be in a previous life: an example might be when one fell off one's horse in a battle in the 15th century and no-one came to help. That might be similar enough to affect you.

    When running the process, this older event would quite easily come up. One goes back, and back, and back, until one gets to what is called a 'basic' incident on that chain. When THAT is erased -- they ALL go. Like magic.

    Here's how: (This little booklet was put together by the Church of Scientology, but all the information in it is good and valid.)

    http://projectavalon.net/Dianetics_Picture_Book.pdf



    AFTER 'Life Repair' is completed, and you feel in pretty good shape, then there are recommended sequences for the next stages of 'clean-up', that go looking for stuff to handle that you might not be aware is there.

    Quote Are there additional techniques one can use to make the process of unloading easier, like some breathing exercises, Reiki?
    No drugs or alcohol before the session. 24 hours in the case of alcohol, and longer periods for some drugs (medical or recreational). That's because these stop auditing from working, as incidents will not 'erase' properly.

    Sometimes people who have had a lot of experience in practices like yoga, meditation, reiki, and many other things, find that their perception is already opened up and therefore auditing can go very quickly. But one should not try to combine these things all at the same time, or everything gets confused and the auditor will not be able to assess what has caused what to clear.

    Quote Can the process be similar to working with affirmations, I myself have a particular technique for this, I state an affirmation as an absolute positive, I write down what bubbles up from my mind or body and repeat 10 to twenty times until no more arguments against the absolute positive come up, meaning I have run out of arguments that prevented me to believe in the absolute stated affirmation, I went to the bottom of the pit and left no stone unturned by doing this.
    Affirmations play no part in auditing processes, but certainly do no harm!

    Quote Last question, what are the specific topics that need to be addressed according to scientology to regain consciousness of one selves true nature and nature of the universe as is?
    It's mostly all about negative gain (see my first post). The more stuff is cleaned off the 'frying pan', the cleaner and shinier it will become. So it's a gradual, steady process -- unless one strikes lucky and uncovers a massive incident that unlocks a lot of stuff at once. This can sometimes happen, but it not predictable in advance. And one can get realizations -- sometimes huge, life-changing ones -- at absolutely any time.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 19th May 2013 at 23:18.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Thank you Bill, I had the picture book for a while, but there is nothing like answers from a personal experiencer and felt like drowning in the other threads. I will let your answers weigh in on my decision to take a closer look at the subject matter, gracias.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Hey bill,
    When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
    Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
    Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by bennycog (here)
    Hey bill,
    When asking questions is it paramount to ask questions without contractions?
    Example it's and don't to it is and do not.
    Because it takes the meaning as the opposite?
    No, not at all... the questions are formed in regular conversational English. But they're usually quite precisely worded, and it's always checked whether or not you understand what is being asked.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Wantsthetruth74 (here)
    I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.
    I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
    The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
    http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836



    http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 20th May 2013 at 01:35.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Wantsthetruth74 (here)
    I have a question for Jiminii. when it comes to the gifts you have, the ones that able you to move hurricaines . hailstorms and the like, is this something that when you do it, is it a pre-meditated thing. Like do you say to yourself, how can I show someone I mean business, oh I will move a hurricaine, and then you do it. And when you are doing it, do you KNOW that it will happen, and does it work every time, or is it hit or miss. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't quite go the way you had hoped.


    Hey never mind it looks like you already answered this here.
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post676410

    I can't answer this at all on Jim's behalf -- but you may want to take a quick look at the summary and reviews of this remarkable book:
    The PK Man: A True Story of Mind Over Matter
    http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836



    http://amazon.com/The-PK-Man-Story-Matter/dp/1571741836#reader_1571741836
    Thanks!!!!!Looks like a good one!!! Ebay 6.25 free shipping : )
    Last edited by Sidney; 20th May 2013 at 13:32.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by TalkingFish (here)

    I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?
    Here, with pleasure.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 4th April 2018 at 16:23.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by TalkingFish (here)

    I remember a past post, when you mentioned finding pre-1970 Dianetics books to audit, but they aren't easy to come by. Would you mind sharing your PDF on Book One?
    Here, with pleasure.

    http://projectavalon.net/DMSMH.PDF
    Hi Bill,

    The link doesn't download anything but a 1Kb file and the PDF reader in your post gives the same result...

    I hope you'll be able to fix it?

    Thanks!
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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