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Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by johnf (here)
    I had a short conversation with my brother last summer, about the MSM idea that the e-meter is used to electroshock people into thinking they are experiencing past lives came up.
    Well, they'd have to be very sensitive.

    I've had my meter for 24 (twenty-four) years, and its first pair of AA batteries lasted 21 (twenty-one) years.

    That's how VERY little current it uses. It's so totally tiny, it would need a highly specialist device to measure it. I don't think you could electroshock a mosquito with it!

    Yes, agreed,I am surprised that it uses AA's, that puts a helpful scale on the subject.


    John
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I came across this the other day and was intrigued from many perspectives and angles. I don’t know anything about auditing but was curious as to thoughts about the ability for this channeller to now consciously flip instantaneously back and forth with an entity she has been traditionally trance channeling for years. This is still quite an anomaly for her which she explains in the video and then (with a dose of embarrassment) demonstrates this new ability repeatedly. She’s basically gone from dial-up to WIFI.

    The entity channeled is “White Cloud”, who is believed to be part of her soul group. She also channels a Federation of Light group who gave her a [false] predication years ago that destroyed her credibility; but she has continued on and over the years explanations have been given, so she has retained a following. This new skill is only with “White Cloud”.

    I’m curious about this because of the “little girl” story recently mentioned in this thread. So, if this channeller was being audited and she flipped back and forth like she does in the video, what would this mean as far as auditing goes?

    There is an intro and then "usual" channelled info for 16 minutes. Then the explanation and demonstration starts.


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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    [...]
    I’m curious about this because of the “little girl” story recently mentioned in this thread. So, if this channeller was being audited and she flipped back and forth like she does in the video, what would this mean as far as auditing goes?
    [...]
    I may not understand the question correctly so forgive me if I am off the mark with my answer.

    Auditing can get to the bottom of what's going on in actuality with Blossom Goodchild's case in very short order by ruling out the many possible scenarios which could lead to the same apparent result being displayed here and which mostly fall under the category of "possession."

    All that by determining if White Cloud and Blossom are two separate beings or some combinations of a "being" + entity attachment as in some variations of the "Bodies in Pawn" manipulation.

    A being is "auditable," an entity isn't because it's mostly an automaton. It would be like trying to run an auditing session on "Alexa" or some AI.

    Where things can get complicated is when an AI is controlled by a smart "being"... like a doll body is:
    THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
    November 1952

    A 5th Invader Force officer carries a doll. They don't carry bodies, they carry dolls. Their identification is a doll. It's a very little flimsy mechanical affair that you can make talk and walk and so forth: they're cute, they are about 1 metre tall, they're very light - you don't use oxygen in saucers. You have this little doll and the thetan energy that a fellow puts out is quite sufficient to monitor the control switchboard in the back of the doll, that's all. And he tunes it up: He's got his wavelength tuned to it and so on and he can walk it around...

    [hence all these stories of computers going berserk and people fearing computers getting intelligent, etc...]

    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by johnf (here)
    I had a roommate for a while that was in the sea org, and he said that Hubbard mentioned an L group. My friend was saying that these beings
    were a source of a lot of the information that became the technology. The phonetic syllable el, as in elevated, elated, and of course the infamous
    Elohim, has a very interesting role in various languages, and religious ideas. When I looked up L group I ran into a channeling handbook by L/L research, the group that was the source of The Law of One material. So I realize how controversial this is but the persistence of that syllable is pretty interesting stuff.
    I'm shocked at the idea of an "L group" because for a while, I was seeing the letter L everywhere (similar to how people who have pareidolia see faces everywhere). I don't imagine there's a word for people who see L's all over the place though (ha ha). It's a personal thing, but I felt I should contribute that anyway.

    There may also be some meaning with the fictional Kal-El (aka Superman). I mean, his whole family is named El... :/
    Last edited by petra; 5th March 2019 at 14:31.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I was thinking of sharing this from many days on Naadi leaf reading thread. But now seeing this thread active again and related to the topic of this thread I am sharing it here instead.

    I asked a question to Maharshi Kagabhujanda/ Kagapujandar infolink, on 23rd Jan 2019.

    QUESTION:
    "In person born on 9th of July 1987 in America, Lafayette Ron Hubbard is reincarnated; who in his previous life invented Scientology. How much will I be helped in my spiritual journey by the works of this person in this life?"

    ANSWER (I guess Naadi reader sent me the recorded answer from his memory not exactly text to text. Because when I asked dictate it to me again over phone he said he forgot in which bundle the answer was written):
    "Brother, you asked about person being reincarnated again. He really came back, he is currently doing some research and telling various things, what he is saying is correct. If you want to get further information you can ask. You can get followup. Means Guruji is telling its True."
    Last edited by kanishk; 6th March 2019 at 02:51.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by kanishk (here)
    I was thinking of sharing this for many days on the Naadi leaf reading thread. But now seeing this thread active again and related to the topic of this thread I am sharing it here instead.

    I asked a question to Maharshi Kagabhujanda/ Kagapujandar infolink, on 23rd Jan 2019.

    QUESTION:
    "In person born on 9th of July 1987 in America, Lafayette Ron Hubbard is reincarnated; who in his previous life invented Scientology. How much will I be helped in my spiritual journey by the works of this person in this life?"

    ANSWER (I guess Naadi reader sent me the recorded answer from his memory not exactly text to text. Because when I asked dictate it to me again over phone he said he forgot in which bundle the answer was written):

    "Brother, you asked about person being reincarnated again. He really came back, he is currently doing some research and telling various things, what he is saying is correct. If you want to get further information you can ask. You can get followup. Means Guruji is telling its True."
    Well, that's interesting. 10-15 years ago, there was a guy in Germany called Andreas Buttler, who created a bit of a stir. He stated clearly that he was the reincarnation of Hubbard, and repackaged the enormous body of work of scientology into one book, which he called Spiritologie (or 'Spiritology', in English). You can read it here:
    I know several highly experienced Free Zone scientologists who were convinced by his story. He had quite a bit of regular auditing, done by someone highly trained and qualified, and we were told by his auditor that all seemed to check out.

    And the Spiritologie book, which condensed everything down into just a relative handful of powerful processes (some of which were confidential), was clearly the work of someone who was extremely aware and inspired — whether one agreed with the principles or not. (And many did not, it has to be said.)

    But he became very controversial. To his credit, he forcefully denounced the Church as it had become under David Miscavige after Hubbard had died. But he was very arrogant and a bit of a showman, and of course some said that was evidence that he WAS Hubbard.

    I personally challenged him at a conference, and had a lengthy standup debate with him from my seat in the audience. He became publicly very angry with me, and it was quite a scene. I kept my cool, but he behaved quite badly in the view of a lot of people there. That was a factor that influenced many who'd not yet formed a definite opinion about him to cease lending him credibility. It was actually quite a tipping point in how he was perceived.

    Buttler and Spiritologie continued, and there were some diehard adherents who swore blind that they had got huge benefit from his new processes. But it didn't end well. One of Buttler's principles at the core of Spiritologie was that we create everything we experience, 100% of it, total responsibility. But he fell on bad times, and became very ill. He was unable to do anything about it, and in the end he publicly retracted everything he had ever said and done. He may be still alive, but he's out of the picture now.

    I don't know for sure when he was born, but when I met him in 2008 he was definitely older than 21. I'd have said he was more like 35-40. In his book, he hints that he was born in 1966, which might need a bit of explaining!

    I once had an e-mail exchange with a colleague of mine in Russia, where Ron's Org is VERY strong and well-established. I told my friend about Buttler claiming to have been Hubbard. "Ah yes," came the reply. "We've got seven of them here."

    I should end this with another anecdote, relayed to me recently by another friend, also highly qualified and trained. He went into a solo session (think of it as remote viewing) to find out whether Hubbard really had returned here, alive in a different body.

    He got the information, that he said was pretty clear and detailed, that this person was currently in Russia, knew that he had been Hubbard, was himself highly trained now, and was keeping a low profile about his identity. That has to be theoretically plausible. (I mean, people do reincarnate!) The last I heard, my friend was intending to check into this some more. All very fascinating stuff.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 5th March 2019 at 19:24.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by kanishk (here)
    I was thinking of sharing this for many days on the Naadi leaf reading thread. But now seeing this thread active again and related to the topic of this thread I am sharing it here instead.

    I asked a question to Maharshi Kagabhujanda/ Kagapujandar infolink, on 23rd Jan 2019.

    QUESTION:
    "In person born on 9th of July 1987 in America, Lafayette Ron Hubbard is reincarnated; who in his previous life invented Scientology. How much will I be helped in my spiritual journey by the works of this person in this life?"

    ANSWER (I guess Naadi reader sent me the recorded answer from his memory not exactly text to text. Because when I asked dictate it to me again over phone he said he forgot in which bundle the answer was written):

    "Brother, you asked about person being reincarnated again. He really came back, he is currently doing some research and telling various things, what he is saying is correct. If you want to get further information you can ask. You can get followup. Means Guruji is telling its True."
    Well, that's interesting. 10-15 years ago, there was a guy in Germany called Andreas Buttler, who created a bit of a stir. He stated clearly that he was the reincarnation of Hubbard, and repackaged the enormous body of work of scientology into one book, which he called Spiritologie (or 'Spiritology', in English). You can read it here:


    I know several highly experienced Free Zone scientologists who were convinced by his story. He had quite a bit of regular auditing, done by someone highly trained and qualified, and we were told by his auditor that all seemed to check out.

    And the Spiritologie book, which condensed everything down into just a relative handful of powerful processes (some of which were confidential), was clearly the work of someone who was extremely aware and inspired — whether one agreed with the principles or not. (And many did not, it has to be said.)

    But he became very controversial. To his credit, he forcefully denounced the Church as it had become under David Miscavige after Hubbard had died. But he was very arrogant and a bit of a showman, and of course some said that was evidence that he WAS Hubbard.

    I personally challenged him at a conference, and had a lengthy standup debate with him from my seat in the audience. He became publicly very angry with me, and it was quite a scene. I kept my cool, but he behaved quite badly in the view of a lot of people there, and that was a factor that influenced many who'd not formed a definite opinion about him to cease lending him credibility. It was actually quite a tipping point in how he was perceived.

    Buttler and Spiritologie continued, and there were some diehard adherents who swore blind that they had got huge benefit from his new processes. But it didn't end well. One of Buttler's principles at the core of Spiritologie was that we create everything we experience, 100% of it, total responsibility. But he fell on bad times, and became very ill. He was unable to do anything about it, and in the end he publicly retracted everything he had ever said and done. He may be still alive, but he's out of the picture now.

    I don't know for sure when he was born, but when I met him in 2008 he was definitely older than 21. I'd have said he was more like 35-40. In his book, he hints that he was born in 1966, which might need a bit of explaining!

    I once had an e-mail exchange with a colleague of mine in Russia, where Ron's Org is VERY strong and well-established. I told my friend about Buttler claiming to have been Hubbard. "Ah yes," came the reply. "We've got seven of them here."

    I should end this with another anecdote, relayed to me recently by another friend, also highly qualified and trained. He went into a solo session (think of it as remote viewing) to find out whether Hubbard really had returned here, alive in a different body.

    He got the information, that he said was pretty clear and detailed, that this person was currently in Russia, knew that he had been Hubbard, was himself highly trained now, and was keeping a low profile about his identity. That has to be theoretically plausible. (I mean, people do reincarnate!) The last I heard, my friend was intending to check into this some more. All very fascinating stuff.

    If he is back I certainly hope he has learned from what has happened in the wake of his activities last time.
    The idea that he is laying low appeals to me ,however it is really sad what groups do with public figures.
    I have to be rather suspect of my interest in that one personality, it can be a big distraction from living my life and

    following higher principles.


    John
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Gemma13 (here)
    [...]
    I’m curious about this because of the “little girl” story recently mentioned in this thread. So, if this channeller was being audited and she flipped back and forth like she does in the video, what would this mean as far as auditing goes?
    [...]
    I may not understand the question correctly so forgive me if I am off the mark with my answer.

    Auditing can get to the bottom of what's going on in actuality with Blossom Goodchild's case in very short order by ruling out the many possible scenarios which could lead to the same apparent result being displayed here and which mostly fall under the category of "possession."

    All that by determining if White Cloud and Blossom are two separate beings or some combinations of a "being" + entity attachment as in some variations of the "Bodies in Pawn" manipulation.

    A being is "auditable," an entity isn't because it's mostly an automaton. It would be like trying to run an auditing session on "Alexa" or some AI.

    Where things can get complicated is when an AI is controlled by a smart "being"... like a doll body is:
    THE ROLE OF THE EARTH
    November 1952

    A 5th Invader Force officer carries a doll. They don't carry bodies, they carry dolls. Their identification is a doll. It's a very little flimsy mechanical affair that you can make talk and walk and so forth: they're cute, they are about 1 metre tall, they're very light - you don't use oxygen in saucers. You have this little doll and the thetan energy that a fellow puts out is quite sufficient to monitor the control switchboard in the back of the doll, that's all. And he tunes it up: He's got his wavelength tuned to it and so on and he can walk it around...

    [hence all these stories of computers going berserk and people fearing computers getting intelligent, etc...]

    Thanks Herve. Not knowing about auditing I hesitated posting this as I didn’t think it would fit. But I’m glad I did now as I didn’t know about the Greenbaum Speech and that is a great take-away for me.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

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    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 26th April 2019 at 00:48.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    The details are fairly unimportant. The Basics are what are important. The Basics are in the in Axioms of Scientology and Dianetics. The communication formula is a basic also. The Laws of Auditing are important too. Study those with discernment and duplicate and understand.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by kanishk (here)
    I was thinking of sharing this for many days on the Naadi leaf reading thread. But now seeing this thread active again and related to the topic of this thread I am sharing it here instead.

    I asked a question to Maharshi Kagabhujanda/ Kagapujandar infolink, on 23rd Jan 2019.

    QUESTION:
    "In person born on 9th of July 1987 in America, Lafayette Ron Hubbard is reincarnated; who in his previous life invented Scientology. How much will I be helped in my spiritual journey by the works of this person in this life?"

    ANSWER (I guess Naadi reader sent me the recorded answer from his memory not exactly text to text. Because when I asked dictate it to me again over phone he said he forgot in which bundle the answer was written):

    "Brother, you asked about person being reincarnated again. He really came back, he is currently doing some research and telling various things, what he is saying is correct. If you want to get further information you can ask. You can get followup. Means Guruji is telling its True."
    Well, that's interesting. 10-15 years ago, there was a guy in Germany called Andreas Buttler, who created a bit of a stir. He stated clearly that he was the reincarnation of Hubbard, and repackaged the enormous body of work of scientology into one book, which he called Spiritologie (or 'Spiritology', in English). You can read it here:


    I know several highly experienced Free Zone scientologists who were convinced by his story. He had quite a bit of regular auditing, done by someone highly trained and qualified, and we were told by his auditor that all seemed to check out.

    And the Spiritologie book, which condensed everything down into just a relative handful of powerful processes (some of which were confidential), was clearly the work of someone who was extremely aware and inspired — whether one agreed with the principles or not. (And many did not, it has to be said.)

    But he became very controversial. To his credit, he forcefully denounced the Church as it had become under David Miscavige after Hubbard had died. But he was very arrogant and a bit of a showman, and of course some said that was evidence that he WAS Hubbard.

    I personally challenged him at a conference, and had a lengthy standup debate with him from my seat in the audience. He became publicly very angry with me, and it was quite a scene. I kept my cool, but he behaved quite badly in the view of a lot of people there. That was a factor that influenced many who'd not yet formed a definite opinion about him to cease lending him credibility. It was actually quite a tipping point in how he was perceived.

    Buttler and Spiritologie continued, and there were some diehard adherents who swore blind that they had got huge benefit from his new processes. But it didn't end well. One of Buttler's principles at the core of Spiritologie was that we create everything we experience, 100% of it, total responsibility. But he fell on bad times, and became very ill. He was unable to do anything about it, and in the end he publicly retracted everything he had ever said and done. He may be still alive, but he's out of the picture now.

    I don't know for sure when he was born, but when I met him in 2008 he was definitely older than 21. I'd have said he was more like 35-40. In his book, he hints that he was born in 1966, which might need a bit of explaining!

    I once had an e-mail exchange with a colleague of mine in Russia, where Ron's Org is VERY strong and well-established. I told my friend about Buttler claiming to have been Hubbard. "Ah yes," came the reply. "We've got seven of them here."

    I should end this with another anecdote, relayed to me recently by another friend, also highly qualified and trained. He went into a solo session (think of it as remote viewing) to find out whether Hubbard really had returned here, alive in a different body.

    He got the information, that he said was pretty clear and detailed, that this person was currently in Russia, knew that he had been Hubbard, was himself highly trained now, and was keeping a low profile about his identity. That has to be theoretically plausible. (I mean, people do reincarnate!) The last I heard, my friend was intending to check into this some more. All very fascinating stuff.

    O, then I will dig deep into it and ask questions again in details so get clarity for myself atleast. And also I dont have the exact text of what was written as answer and exact translation of what Naadi reader actually wrote in Tamil as question; he did not dictated to me, and then he was also not able to find that leaf again. Because sometimes texts fade away too. I can understand one can create a mask on spirit level also.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Hubbard would occasionally mention the existence of "group minds", but didn't seem to have followed up on how they functioned. Years later along comes Rupert Sheldrake writing about "morphic fields / morphogenetic fields". These are the same things, under different names. These are fields of agreements, plus shared disagreements which define their edges or limits. I usually use Sheldrake's name for them morphic fields.

    These morphic fields as I explained are formed of shared agreements, and shared beliefs, among members (people) of the field. These agreements/beliefs often require 'explanation' to make any sense whatsoever. False narratives are invented which give the 'why' of particular beliefs. Someone thinks up a reason why, and it becomes imbedded in the morphic field of some group, and is accepted as truth. It is accepted more readily if it already contains elements which are previously accepted; this allows the new narrative to be inserted into the group. I call these narratives "Morphic Field Legends".

    Let me be blunt here: tens of millions of years ago the dinosaurs were killed by a comet or meteor, not by nuked volcanos. There were no humans, and almost no divine spirits (aka thetans) on the planet. You didn't experience the incident. I didn't experience the incident. The incident did not happen here on this timeline. But you can run the incident. You can call up the charge (trauma) and run it out (release it). Yes, you can audit (process in a therapy session) a fake incident in order to access some charge (trauma). Morphic field legends can be released/erased in session. I even wrote it up many years ago here: http://www.censorthis.com/ouran/GD41.html

    Ed


    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by donk (here)
    What is this (OTIII):
    Yes, as far as I can see that's LRH's handwriting, and these are his research notes -- his own session data. Much of his research was done solo at first, and after that he would put together processes to address what he felt he had found, and test them out on volunteers to see if it actually worked.

    The OT 3 stuff is pretty way out (and has been very often ridiculed by critics), but those who have run processes on it report that the processes seem to work, and that a very great of charge is released.

    My own take on it is that it seems hard to believe, but in pragmatic auditing terms it does seem to work. I asked my own auditor (at the time) about this many years ago -- whether all this was 'real'.

    His reply was wise. He said: "I don't know whether it's real, or whether any of that really happened. But that may not matter. You don't have to believe anything. Thousands of people have reported that it works for auditing purposes, and all I can tell you is that people who run the processes get a great deal of expanded awareness and ability from it. And that's all that counts."

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Ed Dawson (here)
    Let me be blunt here: tens of millions of years ago the dinosaurs were killed by a comet or meteor, not by nuked volcanos. There were no humans, and almost no divine spirits (aka thetans) on the planet. You didn't experience the incident. I didn't experience the incident. The incident did not happen here on this timeline. But you can run the incident. You can call up the charge (trauma) and run it out (release it). Yes, you can audit (process in a therapy session) a fake incident in order to access some charge (trauma). Morphic field legends can be released/erased in session. I even wrote it up many years ago here: http://www.censorthis.com/ouran/GD41.html
    I can be more blunt. Story (significance) has no bearing on recovery of beingness. Only erasure of mass (lost beingness) can do that.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    The topic of Scientology took my interest so I read the book Dianetics. The book paints a picture of a process which mere novices can use to clear each other of significant mental baggage. On the other hand it fails to provide a usable handbook for them to do so. I would expect for example a skeleton outline of a session, instructions what to focus on and some basic list of questions to run.

    I've understood from this forum that it turned out it is not that easy for untrained people to generate significant results.
    Could you please elaborate? Is it possible e.g. for a married couple to apply this method and experience gains? What kind of gains are realistic and in what amount of time? Can we expect them to clear each other? Should they only go for a release? What kind of attitude should they have at the beginning? What should they focus their first sessions on? What is the best material to study after the Dianetics book? What material should one study before starting practical sessions? Could one start right away?

    The next question I have with the LRH's model is the question of ethics. As the model finds the source of abberration in what had been done to us, it brings focus on being the subject rather than the object of action. Does LRH suggest the best way to be abberration-free is to impose oneself on others rather than let them impose themselves on me? This paints quite a law of the jungle picture to me. This model then seems to explain out why the elites treat the populus the way they do.

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    Canada Avalon Member TomKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by not_a_millenial (here)
    The topic of Scientology took my interest so I read the book Dianetics. The book paints a picture of a process which mere novices can use to clear each other of significant mental baggage. On the other hand it fails to provide a usable handbook for them to do so. I would expect for example a skeleton outline of a session, instructions what to focus on and some basic list of questions to run.
    There was a book that came out in about 1974 called Dianetics Today. It gives the procedure along with sessions that go into previous lives. That should probably be your next Dianetics read.

    Quote Posted by not_a_millenial (here)
    I've understood from this forum that it turned out it is not that easy for untrained people to generate significant results. Could you please elaborate? Is it possible e.g. for a married couple to apply this method and experience gains? What kind of gains are realistic and in what amount of time? Can we expect them to clear each other? Should they only go for a release? What kind of attitude should they have at the beginning? What should they focus their first sessions on? What is the best material to study after the Dianetics book? What material should one study before starting practical sessions? Could one start right away?
    The best book to start is called Self-Analysis. You can do it on yourself, but it actually works better in a co-audit with your partner. Don't even start a co-audit without memorising the Auditor's Code. By the way, nobody has ever TRULY achieved Clear. But CLEARER is an admirable goal.

    Quote Posted by not_a_millenial (here)
    The next question I have with the LRH's model is the question of ethics. As the model finds the source of abberration in what had been done to us, it brings focus on being the subject rather than the object of action. Does LRH suggest the best way to be abberration-free is to impose oneself on others rather than let them impose themselves on me? This paints quite a law of the jungle picture to me. This model then seems to explain out why the elites treat the populus the way they do.
    Hubbard said a lot of things, among them that a healthy person has to feel dangerous to his environment. I think that's just a fancy way of saying one must feel a certain amount of personal power to remain sane. I've noticed when people feel powerless, for instance in a relationship, they can act quite insane. He also said that in the end what goes around comes around, i.e., karma. That's why Dianetics is run with all 4 flows, you must find an incident chain: 1) as a victim, 2) as a perpetrator 3) as a witness of others to others, 4) self to self. I think that's all in Dianetics Today.
    Last edited by TomKat; 23rd March 2021 at 00:53.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    The basic procedure of Dianetics works quite well, but it is a bit complex for many. I took courses on how to do Book one as it is called and can deliver it. Nowadays I deliver a more streamlined version for new people and they receive the auditing from me and get good gains. To train you to do book one is best done by reading that book a few times and take a plunge.
    On the subject of Ethics, it is a very good system and if applied correctly can move you out of unwanted conditions in life. I would say Ethics is a kind of a bridge from subjective to objective universe. You can direct message me if you have more questions.

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    I’ve recently read „Levels of Energy“ by Fred Dodson.

    The book is similar to „power vs. force“ by Hawkins and supposedly also to Hubbards emotional tone chart? Although Dodson mentions that Hubbard caps his chart, whereby the two other authors go higher on, into a godly/enlightened realm.

    My basic questions are, is there any material where Hubbard talked in depth about the emotional tone chart?

    Dodson mentions that the Bhagavad Gita already described a emotional tone chart, are you aware of that?

    Has anyone ever attempted a comparison of these modern writers of tone charts/scales?

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by wegge (here)
    Is there any material where Hubbard talked in depth about the emotional tone chart?
    Yes, a whole book:

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Scientology teaches people are in a "fallen" state. I'd like to point out that this is diametrically opposite to other belief systems that teach people are evolving. In those belief systems, with every lifetime we grow spiritually. In scientology, with every lifetime we shrink spiritually -- unless we use scientology to un-do the "devolution."

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    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by TomKat (here)
    Scientology teaches people are in a "fallen" state. I'd like to point out that this is diametrically opposite to other belief systems that teach people are evolving. In those belief systems, with every lifetime we grow spiritually. In scientology, with every lifetime we shrink spiritually -- unless we use scientology to un-do the "devolution."
    Well, I think that's 100% true. Everything in my own experience supports that.

    But it's not inevitable, like some kind of cosmic law. One could see it as a kind of trend. It's just something that's very likely to happen.

    It's easy to understand. It's merely an accumulation of what could be called unfinished business.

    Each time we fail to complete something, or tell an untruth (also an "incompletion", unless we repair it and "come clean"), or do something that's dishonest (even if it's tiny), or in some way harmful to another person... it's like another brick in the wall. These "bricks" can be very tiny, but they gradually accumulate.

    To change the metaphor, they weigh us down and hamper or impede our natural abilities and awareness.

    This doesn't just happen across lifetimes. It can happen in one life (this one!), as well. This is often how come more elderly people have less energy. It's not always that they're in some way infirm. It can often be simply that they're carrying so much around.

    So the way to remedy this is to complete the incomplete stuff. But do do that, one has to remember what it all was. And that can be difficult or impossible without specifically targeted counseling processes (including regression techniques) that help one to fully understand, face up to and heal what's happened in the past. That "past" might be several decades ago, or a couple of lifetimes ago, or a few million years ago. The principles are exactly the same.

    There's a lot to "clean up" sometimes, but it really does work.

    And one can test it easily. Look in the mirror (metaphorically!) and make a little list of who one might possibly write to or talk to to apologize about something. Even if it's very small. And then do that.

    Or, say something to someone that you've been holding back (as long as it's kind!). Or even, do something round the house or garden that you've been putting off for a few months. And then see how much energy you suddenly have again, and how great you feel. That same thing works across lifetimes, as well.

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