+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 28 FirstFirst 1 10 20 28 LastLast
Results 181 to 200 of 550

Thread: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

  1. Link to Post #181
    Canada Avalon Member soleil's Avatar
    Join Date
    8th November 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Age
    41
    Posts
    894
    Thanks
    6,928
    Thanked 3,686 times in 774 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.

    jim, you've mentioned just knowing. is there more to it from your perspective?
    also, can you share how you've come to make headaches go away? was that natural intuitive healing?
    one more thing. how does one know there is an impulse of a being in them? (as you had written about yourself)...is there a specific feeling where you know it is not your soul conciousness, and it is an entity?

    i must add, i havent yet caught up on your other thread or viveks threads that are similar. i suppose i'll be busy for a while catching up, now that im slowly understanding concepts and how these are all connected.

    im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. very cool so far.
    thanks to all who are participating!
    unite, alright
    you know one thing about music? when it hits, you feel no pain!

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to soleil For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), Swanette (25th May 2013)

  3. Link to Post #182
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,889 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [...]

    At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

    Love, bram
    LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

    It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  4. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), bram (25th May 2013), cuitlahuac (25th January 2016), DouglasDanger (24th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), hohoemi (24th May 2013), kanishk (25th May 2013), kirolak (23rd May 2014), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013), Swanette (25th May 2013)

  5. Link to Post #183
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    11th May 2013
    Location
    asia
    Age
    78
    Posts
    2,065
    Thanks
    1,980
    Thanked 10,009 times in 1,932 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [...]

    At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

    Love, bram
    LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

    It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.
    I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

    jim

  6. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to jiminii For This Post:

    bram (25th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), Hervé (24th May 2013), psydney (25th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013)

  7. Link to Post #184
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,889 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    [...]

    LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

    It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.
    I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

    jim
    The pressure was from his fellow "medicos" at the Foundation, like Dr. Winter...
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  8. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    bram (25th May 2013), cuitlahuac (25th January 2016), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), kanishk (25th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013)

  9. Link to Post #185
    United States Avalon Member
    Join Date
    11th May 2013
    Location
    asia
    Age
    78
    Posts
    2,065
    Thanks
    1,980
    Thanked 10,009 times in 1,932 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by teradactyl (here)
    hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.

    jim, you've mentioned just knowing. is there more to it from your perspective?
    also, can you share how you've come to make headaches go away? was that natural intuitive healing?
    one more thing. how does one know there is an impulse of a being in them? (as you had written about yourself)...is there a specific feeling where you know it is not your soul conciousness, and it is an entity?

    i must add, i havent yet caught up on your other thread or viveks threads that are similar. i suppose i'll be busy for a while catching up, now that im slowly understanding concepts and how these are all connected.

    im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. very cool so far.
    thanks to all who are participating!
    something changed in me at 14 ... and I became very stable .. didn't fear anything ... and no more headaches ... I think it was because of gas fumes on the ground caused me to go out of my body .... I was sitting about 16 feet above the ground and to the right of my horse ... my horse turned his head and looked up straight at me.... I went back into my body and ran every single picture in my life in a few seconds ... I looked back and thought "did I run ALL the pictures .... yes I did ... " how can I run and entire lifetime in a few seconds .. well I just did .... there was a kind of realization in between each picture was a tiny gap of nothingness ... so it would be like going in the the space at an instant and then going out and going into the next created space all the way to birth ... I did not realize this until I got on this website and bill pointed out some of the abilities of the free zone upper OT levels .... there is something different in me ... I can pop back into the exact time and pop back to this time ... and in between is this tiny gap ... it is like going into the physical universe and going out .. to the void which I would say would be spirit outside the box ... so I have another ability that if I can attest to ... maybe I can just pop back to any time and tell anyone what happened exactly ... I think this is a result of sending us back to this period of time. as for the head aches ... when a viewpoint (I AM) doesn't have pictures he tends to want to be part of the crowd it seems so he borrows other people's pictures .. or I borrow the pictures of the GE in my body .. but somehow I separated the connection and am sitting somewhere in total serene ... watching the body doing all the reacting ... it is like I can cry ... but I put it in me .. but me the being is not crying .. I cry to create the effect I want at the time ... to send some kind of inspiration to others ... the body goes through the emotion with apparently real feelings .. while I am sitting back just a bit amused that I can do that ... when I was in the room where the thai buddhist was testing me I could feel the presence of other out of body buddhist that wanted to know why I am messing with their weather .... when you present an impossible situation to someone like "just move a spiritual finger out there and pull on the air and start up the wind ... it has a tendency to wake up the being ... especially if suddenly the wind starts up ... it startles the being and he knows you did it ... other times other awareness's .. can pick up the being too

    try this ... look into the crowd of people and get the idea you can see where all the spirit beings are ... it gets very spiritual and you can almost see them or feel where they are next to their head ... or look at the area you are in and get the idea the space you are looking at is created space .... it will change your viewpoint to more spiritual
    or get near a horse ... and get the idea you are communicating with her ... and it really gets spiritual .. at least for me.

    jim
    Last edited by jiminii; 24th May 2013 at 17:31.

  10. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to jiminii For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), cuitlahuac (25th January 2016), Czarek (24th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), Hervé (24th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013), Swanette (25th May 2013)

  11. Link to Post #186
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,565
    Thanks
    30,489
    Thanked 138,348 times in 21,474 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o-- (here)
    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    I suspect that human element you mention is indeed the key.

    As I mentioned here many months ago, I took an intense weekend session called "Life Training" (now apparently called More To Life) with one of Roy Whitten or Brad Brown (I forget which one now) back in 1984.

    During that weekend, one of the exercises involved us splitting off into pairs, each listening to one other tell some emotionally important story from their past, probably in some form of "clearing" exercise. I don't remember much, but I do remember this much. I was pretty much entirely locked into my "computer geek" mode at that time (doing some of the most intense multi-processor operating system development of my long career), and was a bit uncomfortable and ineffective in the listening role.

    The trainer (Brad or Roy) was walking around the room, and easily noticed this. He leaned over my shoulder from behind me, put one hand on my shoulder to intercede, looked at the woman across from me who was having trouble telling her story to this geek, said perhaps one or two words to her that connected on a different level, and she barely got a couple words of her own out before breaking into tears. He handed her a box of Kleenex, glanced at me to verify that there wasn't much useful he could say or do on my behalf, and moved onto the next couple.

    As enfoldedblue and Christine have noted above ... in terms they clearly understand better than this here retired geek ... there seems to be a heart to heart connection that is more essential to this process than the sequential logic of the words spoken.

    I have no clue how to program that heart to heart connection into a computer.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  12. The Following 19 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    1 flew over (20th August 2013), AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), bram (25th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), Fred Steeves (24th May 2013), Hervé (24th May 2013), hohoemi (24th May 2013), InCiDeR (25th May 2013), judymoon (26th May 2013), kanishk (25th May 2013), Limor Wolf (24th May 2013), Neal (28th May 2013), Orph (25th May 2013), porcupine (30th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), sygh (15th September 2013)

  13. Link to Post #187
    United States Administrator ThePythonicCow's Avatar
    Join Date
    4th January 2011
    Location
    North Texas
    Language
    English
    Age
    76
    Posts
    28,565
    Thanks
    30,489
    Thanked 138,348 times in 21,474 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Limor (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    you can download a meter to run on the PC from free zone
    Translation:

    Here Jim means a 'virtual' meter, that runs on a computer screen on Windows.

    http://freezoneearth.org/allmeters

    (Never tried or used, it, as I have a Mac.)
    Hi Bill, I might be wrong, but all I am seeing is E-meters for sale. Am I missing something?
    This one, from the website Bill linked to, runs on "any Windows operating system": e-Pro: professional auditing framework.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

  14. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to ThePythonicCow For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), deridan (25th May 2013), DouglasDanger (24th May 2013), eaglespirit (25th May 2013), InCiDeR (25th May 2013), Limor Wolf (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), sygh (15th September 2013)

  15. Link to Post #188
    Avalon Retired Member lakewatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th May 2013
    Location
    Western US
    Age
    73
    Posts
    100
    Thanks
    777
    Thanked 618 times in 98 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

    For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

    In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

    And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

    I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

    Quote I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)
    Bill, thank you for sharing your personal experience with the original Hubbard technology. Over thirty years ago I had a very brief set of experiences with the Church. Though I gleaned a couple of gems from that experience, overall it was unpleasant and spiritually disturbing - red flags all over the place for me. I never was interested in having anything to do with the organization again.

    But I did retain a back burner interest in what there might be of actual help and value buried beneath the crap. I wasn't able to make any progress on this until I recently ran into the Dane Tops interview and your posts here. Thank you especially for sharing your copy of the original Dianetics book.

    Now for my question and my critique: I think this situation is really important and requires honesty, even some blunt honesty where necessary.

    Are you acquainted with Lester Levenson's work? I mean Lester's own stuff, not the subsequent commercial corruptions of his work put forth by one or two of his students. Lester himself comes across to me as simple, humble, patient, loving and compassionate. In the portion of his material that I've read and viewed so far, he feels totally authentic to me. The core message and the carrier wave, so to speak, match. The walk matches the talk in every way that I can see so far.

    He too reached extraordinary states of consciousness and spiritual maturity, attaining to the Christ Consciousness in 1952, and indeed was apparently able to do miraculous things (i.e. to act from the causal body). He humbly taught those who came to him and asked him to for over forty years. This is my current understanding about Lester.

    Now I contrast my experience with Lester's material, with you and Jim.

    You feel authentic to me, with your statements well considered and very balanced. I've seen many of your Camelot interviews and that's how you've generally always struck me. Just fact, no flattery.

    With Jim on the other hand it's a different story. I've reviewed this thread and core parts of a couple of his first threads. My impression: Red flags all over the place. I get the impression of possibly some nuggets wrapped in a carrier wave that is extremely hazardous and possibly having delusional elements. He reminds me of the warning by Barbara Marciniak's Pleiadians in her book Bringers Of The Dawn, wherein the "Ps" say that during the time we are now going through, we will encounter beings that are evolved to a point where they can do amazing things, but that does not mean that these beings are necessarily spiritually enlightened. I don't get the impression that he is intentionally disinformitive, but, I do get the impression that there is something really wrong there that warrants extreme caution. IMHO

    I am interested in reading more of whatever you Bill, may have to say about the value of Hubbards technology. Especially if you can translate it into common language. I think that the Scientology jargon is itself a form of mind conditioning and control - a type of verbal entrainment, an example of what Hubbard called "hypnosis", which he said he was fighting to free mankind from. One of the flags I mentioned. If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.

    I think its extremely important at this time for us to find what each of us needs to clear our baggage. But, it's also extremely important that we exercise the very best discernment in the process. It's really important. IMO

    Well that's my two cents.

  16. The Following 13 Users Say Thank You to lakewatcher For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (1st June 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), deridan (25th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), Fred Steeves (24th May 2013), Gardener (25th May 2013), InCiDeR (24th May 2013), judymoon (24th May 2013), mischief (15th July 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013), thunder24 (24th May 2013), Valerie Villars (19th November 2018)

  17. Link to Post #189
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,889 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    In all of these computer programs, what I think would be missing is the duplication factor from a computer program that, as far as I know, only a human/being can produce since it has the specific wavelength(s) and intention required for the set of circumstances encountered in the session; although a Robert Duncan's type of "brain" heterodyning could substitute for that and generate from its memory banks the harmonic wavelengths which recorded that "human warmth."

    That "human warmth" in the "tech" jargon is called "A-R-C" for Affinity, Reality, Communication. In Paul's experience, Affinity and Reality were "out," i.e. not "there" or present in the session and therefore the woman could not possibly feel "duplicated" or understood.

    One can effectively communicate with, and understand/"duplicate", someone/something only when Affinity for, and reality with, someone/something are present. However, Communication with someone/something is sometime the only way to establish a common Reality with someone/something which engenders a higher degree of Affinity for that someone/something. That's the proverbial "find something (= look = communicate instead of discard/ignore) one likes about the person/thing (Affinity = "heart")" to break the ice...

    "Duplication" is also the basis for the "vanishment"/"as-ising" of an engram... one needs to view it (Communicate with "it") in spite of the "fear" of pain (courage/heart/"love") -- whether physical or emotional -- a number of times in order to fully "embrace" it (Affinity) in its full Reality...

    Once it is fully "duplicated"/understood along with the thoughts that created it in the first place as well as the thoughts it generated in the forms of decisions and conclusions; it ceases to affect one and vanishes into the realm of conscious memories with a "lesson learned!"
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  18. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), InCiDeR (25th May 2013), kanishk (25th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), ThePythonicCow (24th May 2013)

  19. Link to Post #190
    Avalon Member Sidney's Avatar
    Join Date
    12th April 2010
    Location
    down the Rabbit Hole
    Posts
    5,040
    Thanks
    14,238
    Thanked 20,921 times in 4,417 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by lakewatcher (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    This is about pragmatism. It's about what works: tools that are available for use. And, if this is appreciated, I'd quite like to share my personal experience, which is fairly extensive.

    For reasons which I hope members and visitors alike will respect, I've always thus far kept this pretty much all compartmentalized from my work and my mission. That's because the mission is more important, and the topic of discussion here is ONLY about a set of tools that can assist one in tackling one's mission more effectively.

    In the pages that follow I'll no doubt say that over and over again. This is about a set of tools which work. They really do, when used in ethical and skilled hands.

    And you don't have to use them. There are many others. But some of you may be waiting for this information, and it would be small for me to withhold it all merely because I was concerned about the reception from detractors. This stuff can transform your life. (And, again, so can many other sets of tools. Make your choice: you're a free being.)

    I undertake to you that I will tell the truth, will not distort anything, state clearly if there's something that *I* don't know or don't fully understand. So here goes.

    Quote I'll pause here, and welcome all and any questions. I'll undertake to answer them all as best I can. I can maybe help interpret some (but not all!) of the story that Jim is trying to recount, and will do my best, bearing in mind that any interpretation of Jim's experience may not be fully correct. (I do not know him personally, but feel -- as do many others -- that he's trying to tell us something important. Don't throw away the mud without sifting it through for diamonds first.)
    Bill, thank you for sharing your personal experience with the original Hubbard technology. Over thirty years ago I had a very brief set of experiences with the Church. Though I gleaned a couple of gems from that experience, overall it was unpleasant and spiritually disturbing - red flags all over the place for me. I never was interested in having anything to do with the organization again.

    But I did retain a back burner interest in what there might be of actual help and value buried beneath the crap. I wasn't able to make any progress on this until I recently ran into the Dane Tops interview and your posts here. Thank you especially for sharing your copy of the original Dianetics book.

    Now for my question and my critique: I think this situation is really important and requires honesty, even some blunt honesty where necessary.

    Are you acquainted with Lester Levenson's work? I mean Lester's own stuff, not the subsequent commercial corruptions of his work put forth by one or two of his students. Lester himself comes across to me as simple, humble, patient, loving and compassionate. In the portion of his material that I've read and viewed so far, he feels totally authentic to me. The core message and the carrier wave, so to speak, match. The walk matches the talk in every way that I can see so far.

    He too reached extraordinary states of consciousness and spiritual maturity, attaining to the Christ Consciousness in 1952, and indeed was apparently able to do miraculous things (i.e. to act from the causal body). He humbly taught those who came to him and asked him to for over forty years. This is my current understanding about Lester.

    Now I contrast my experience with Lester's material, with you and Jim.

    You feel authentic to me, with your statements well considered and very balanced. I've seen many of your Camelot interviews and that's how you've generally always struck me. Just fact, no flattery.

    With Jim on the other hand it's a different story. I've reviewed this thread and core parts of a couple of his first threads. My impression: Red flags all over the place. I get the impression of possibly some nuggets wrapped in a carrier wave that is extremely hazardous and possibly having delusional elements. He reminds me of the warning by Barbara Marciniak's Pleiadians in her book Bringers Of The Dawn, wherein the "Ps" say that during the time we are now going through, we will encounter beings that are evolved to a point where they can do amazing things, but that does not mean that these beings are necessarily spiritually enlightened. I don't get the impression that he is intentionally disinformitive, but, I do get the impression that there is something really wrong there that warrants extreme caution. IMHO

    I am interested in reading more of whatever you Bill, may have to say about the value of Hubbards technology. Especially if you can translate it into common language. I think that the Scientology jargon is itself a form of mind conditioning and control - a type of verbal entrainment, an example of what Hubbard called "hypnosis", which he said he was fighting to free mankind from. One of the flags I mentioned. If someone comes here and posts in Greek, most of us are not going to understand it. Since that poster is posting in our "land" the onus is on them to speak in English, not on us to learn Greek.

    I think its extremely important at this time for us to find what each of us needs to clear our baggage. But, it's also extremely important that we exercise the very best discernment in the process. It's really important. IMO

    Well that's my two cents.
    You make some valid points with regards to the "language". And as with the goal of being clear, as scientology and dianetics are effective tools to reach someones goals, (what ever they may be), i do believe there is more than one road to enlightenment. have listened to many interviews with delores cannon, and othere who study and practice regressive hypnosis, and accessing past lives in order to "clear karma" and move beyond past painful experience. IMO, its the same concept, in different language. I do resonate with the concept of getting clear, and dumping past "memories(engrams), and as long as you get there, it doesn't matter how.
    Scientology and dianetics is how Jim as gotten to where he is, and has profound experiences, in the process and as a result of it. It is big enough that he has the heart and need to share this with us, so that if we can accumulate enough of us with these abilities, then we as a whole can try to save what remains left of this planet.

    Me personally, the scientology and dianetics wording/language reading makes my head hurt. LOL But I do believe it is partly because I have problems with my health, fatigue etc. physical and mental fatigue. What I have found is that it is easier to understand, if I read it after I am well rested, and not when I am already tired. I also am thinking it may be easier for me, both time wise, and financially, to get regression through one of Delores Cannons trainees,(there are many, scattered throughout the world), as at least with going that route, normally only one session is required. The closest free zone auditor geographically for me is a 5 hour drive, which for obvious reasons, the goal would never come to fruition.

    I guess the one question that I have would be, exactly what the differrence is (if any) between auditing and regression. Because it seems to me to be the same.
    Last edited by Sidney; 24th May 2013 at 19:36.

  20. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Sidney For This Post:

    4evrneo (24th May 2013), AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), deridan (25th May 2013), lakewatcher (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013)

  21. Link to Post #191
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    577
    Thanks
    9,474
    Thanked 2,913 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by iNtrPrsnL aLcHmSt --0-o-- (here)
    I was reading about IBM's Watson that won on Jeopardy! not too long ago.

    It crossed my mind whether a computer could be programmed to conduct the auditing process. From my understanding Hubbard's directions are pretty formulated and strict in their application. If someone with sufficient knowledge of programming and the clearing processes worked together, perhaps an internet site could be developed where people could be automatically audited?

    Or perhaps I've underestimated the human element that's required to conduct the auditing? Just a thought, figured I'd throw it out there.

    I hope everyone is doing well this day! : )
    Yes, this is possible, and I know someone who experimented with that (writing a simple program) to run a particular process. I believe (Paul? Carmody?) in geek-speak this is called "an Expert Program". Computer training programs, that offer feedback on your answer, and then guide you to the next step (all a simple tree diagram in the software), are an example.

    I'd see the use of this as a simple guidance template to help keep you (the 'client') on track with the process you're running. You could have a text message, or even a voice, that you would trigger by pressing <Enter>, and then it'd say [something like]:

    THANK YOU. HAS THE INCIDENT ERASED?

    (response: NO)

    OKAY. DOES IT SEEM TO BE GETTING LIGHTER?

    (response: YES)

    GOOD. GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF THE INCIDENT, JUST BEFORE YOU REALIZED SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND RUN IT THROUGH ONE MORE TIME TO THE END. THEN LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU'RE THERE BY PRESSING <ENTER> AGAIN.

    (etc, etc)
    I've thought about doing this myself but not with traditional auditing, that seems a little difficult for just a simple program, and besides, don't you have to close your eyes? I have thought of a very easy way to do it though.

    A perfect book to use for creating a computer program to do this would be Hubbard's "Self Analysis" because it's just full of questions that you ask yourself that aid you in recovering memories using all of the senses in turn. You could just as easily do this process from the book alone but the advantage of writing a program to do it would be that you could set it to throw out the questions randomly with random sense perceptions and keep a log of your progress, it would even become a handy journal to pick you up when you're feeling down. In the case of the question 'Recall a time when you were happy?' for instance, wouldn't it be nice to have a computer keep a list of all those pleasant memories? I guess it would be handy for someone if they were writing an autobiography or something like that also.

    Amzer Zo posted a link to the "Self Analysis" book by Hubbard a while back on another thread but the link is dead now. Anyway it would be a great book to get hold of if like me you can't afford to be audited (and don't really want to trust a stranger with your secrets), because you can do it on your own.

    EDIT: I've uploaded Hubbard's 'Self Analysis' here:
    L R Hubbard Self_analysis.pdf
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 26th May 2013 at 03:33. Reason: added link to post

  22. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    4evrneo (24th May 2013), Bhusunda (25th May 2013), bram (25th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), deridan (25th May 2013), Hervé (24th May 2013), karelia (24th May 2013), Neal (28th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013), Swanette (25th May 2013)

  23. Link to Post #192
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    577
    Thanks
    9,474
    Thanked 2,913 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by teradactyl (here)
    hi jim and bill, i have finally caught up on this thread, and read the first dianetics picture book. so far i have nothing to add, except now i have a name for what i've been learning to do, both by TraineeHuman/FineFeather (here in PA), by meditating, and by just knowing.
    .................
    im truly interested in engrams. ive removed a few, without knowing what i was doing. last summer. very cool so far.
    thanks to all who are participating!
    That's what I've been getting the sense of from my progress with TraineeHuman's OBE thread too, in that, in my dream and OBE experiences I've been travelling further and further back in time, clearing out the garbage as I go. I did read Dianetics years ago though so I was a little more conscious of the link between removing engrams and other types inner work, I just neglected highlight this aspect there because I think TH holds a rather dim view of Hubbard. Personally I think, like Bill has said, it's better to judge LRH by his (exceptional) work rather than his personality.

    Another strange thing (where both worlds meet) is that a few nights ago after reading this thread, I had a dream in which I was being audited along with a large group of people. I guess my Higher Self is doing it for me. I'm sure being audited (in the physical world) would be a much quicker way of getting clear, but I'm happy for now to take the slow road. Besides, I'm enjoying the journey.

  24. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    Christine (24th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), Hervé (24th May 2013), Joe Akulis (3rd June 2013), karelia (24th May 2013), kirolak (23rd May 2014), Neal (28th May 2013), Sidney (24th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013), soleil (24th May 2013)

  25. Link to Post #193
    Avalon Retired Member lakewatcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    14th May 2013
    Location
    Western US
    Age
    73
    Posts
    100
    Thanks
    777
    Thanked 618 times in 98 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Wantsthetruth74 (here)
    You make some valid points with regards to the "language". And as with the goal of being clear, as scientology and dianetics are effective tools to reach someones goals, (what ever they may be), i do believe there is more than one road to enlightenment. have listened to many interviews with delores cannon, and othere who study and practice regressive hypnosis, and accessing past lives in order to "clear karma" and move beyond past painful experience. IMO, its the same concept, in different language. I do resonate with the concept of getting clear, and dumping past "memories(engrams), and as long as you get there, it doesn't matter how.
    Scientology and dianetics is how Jim as gotten to where he is, and has profound experiences, in the process and as a result of it. It is big enough that he has the heart and need to share this with us, so that if we can accumulate enough of us with these abilities, then we as a whole can try to save what remains left of this planet.

    Me personally, the scientology and dianetics wording/language reading makes my head hurt. LOL But I do believe it is partly because I have problems with my health, fatigue etc. physical and mental fatigue. What I have found is that it is easier to understand, if I read it after I am well rested, and not when I am already tired. I also am thinking it may be easier for me, both time wise, and financially, to get regression through one of Delores Cannons trainees,(there are many, scattered throughout the world), as at least with going that route, normally only one session is required. The closest free zone auditor geographically for me is a 5 hour drive, which for obvious reasons, the goal would never come to fruition.

    I guess the one question that I have would be, exactly what the differrence is (if any) between auditing and regression. Because it seems to me to be the same.
    IMO they are essentially similar, if both are properly and ethically done right.

    I have seen a number of statements in various places lately that 'hypnosis' is always oppressive, always an evil control device. Well, it seems to me it depends upon how it is used.

    My understanding of hypnosis is that it is the set of trance states that can result from carefully focusing our consciousness. It is a tool that can be evil or good depending upon how it is used. It can be used, and all too often has been, for mind control and enslavement and suppression of the self. Conversely, I think it can also be used to defuse and undo mind control mechanisms and enslavement. It takes knowledge, skill and integrity to undo the evil booby traps implanted by previous hypnotic and traumatic experiences.

    And IMO, the last, and absolutely necessary, stage of the right use of the tool is to cultivate and bring to consciousness in the subject the awareness of what happened and how they lost control of themselves, and to restore their full control of their own mind.

    It is my personal opinion, that any procedure that violates the integrity of another's soul or mind is inherently evil and a most heinous crime.
    Last edited by lakewatcher; 24th May 2013 at 22:10. Reason: spelling correction

  26. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to lakewatcher For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), Christine (24th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), InCiDeR (24th May 2013), Sidney (25th May 2013), Sierra (24th May 2013)

  27. Link to Post #194
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
    Join Date
    7th February 2010
    Location
    Ecuador
    Posts
    34,206
    Thanks
    207,997
    Thanked 456,558 times in 32,726 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    besides, don't you have to close your eyes?
    No, not at all. I've never closed my eyes, or been asked to, in any auditing session I've ever had.

    (Thanks for the question!)


    Quote Posted by lakewatcher (here)
    It is my personal opinion, that any procedure that violates the integrity of another's soul or mind is inherently evil and a most heinous crime.
    Perfectly stated.

  28. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Bill Ryan For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (24th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), kanishk (25th May 2013), kirolak (23rd May 2014), lakewatcher (26th May 2013), Yoda (25th May 2013)

  29. Link to Post #195
    United States Honored, Retired Member. Ron passed in October 2022.
    Join Date
    5th January 2011
    Location
    Virginia
    Age
    81
    Posts
    2,197
    Thanks
    13,269
    Thanked 18,256 times in 2,136 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by rmauersr (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ------

    A little more in answer to seko above:

    • One can also do sessions with a distant auditor over Skype. (The meter can be with either person.)
    • When solo auditing, unless one is very experienced or highly qualified, one does need guidance on what to audit (i.e. what question-and-answer processes to 'run') from someone who is qualified and experienced and who understands what you're wanting to address.
    Are there theories that may explain how "The meter can be with either person." when the auditor may be far away during a Skype conversation?
    Yes -- although only esoteric ones! But those reading this may understand.

    The distant auditor (or specifically, their body) gets in 'resonance' with the client, and therefore is able to manifest the same reads on the meter at their end.

    But clearly, to do this, the auditor needs to be in significantly good shape, so that nothing of their own is reading at all, which would of course interfere and give false indications.
    Is the auditor's process to "get in resonance" with the audited a simple process of using intent, quieting the mind and shifting awareness to the heart chakra or is the process more elaborate?
    Last edited by Ron Mauer Sr; 26th May 2013 at 00:49.

  30. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Ron Mauer Sr For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (25th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013)

  31. Link to Post #196
    UK Avalon Member AwakeInADream's Avatar
    Join Date
    30th August 2012
    Location
    Source seen from a unique angle
    Posts
    577
    Thanks
    9,474
    Thanked 2,913 times in 540 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by AwakeInADream (here)
    besides, don't you have to close your eyes?
    No, not at all. I've never closed my eyes, or been asked to, in any auditing session I've ever had.

    (Thanks for the question!)
    Thanks Bill! I mistakenly thought that auditing took place from a state of reverie (where you do close your eyes), but that reminds me of a question I'd love to ask you. You see when I first read Dianetics I got really excited about the prospect of reverie, I thought I would suddenly have a photographic memory and be able to recall all of the events from my life and go back even further into past lives too (even though past lives weren't mentioned in the book, I read in between the lines). But, I've never been able to do it right, or perhaps I've got the wrong idea about it?

    Can you give me any tips on how to do reverie correctly?

    Or maybe just explain it better from your experience?

    I had a serious accident as a toddler that I have absolutely no recollection of, and if I could only remember that one incident I'm pretty sure that most(if not all) of my engrams would fall like a house of cards, I only need a way of getting to it.

    Does it take a lot of work to remove any blockages I may have that stop me having full audio/visual recall?
    (it's mostly audio that I lack, which perhaps explains why when I type, I sometimes miss out some of the smaller words)
    Last edited by AwakeInADream; 26th May 2013 at 03:36. Reason: missed a word.. lol

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AwakeInADream For This Post:

    bram (25th May 2013), hohoemi (25th May 2013), soleil (27th May 2013)

  33. Link to Post #197
    Thailand Avalon Member bram's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd October 2012
    Location
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Age
    71
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    1,080
    Thanked 1,262 times in 256 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [...]

    At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]

    Love, bram
    LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

    It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.
    Ah, thanks for this. This makes a lot of sense because reading the book it is clear that he was still expecting Dianetics to be accepted at some point by the mainstream 'scientific' establishment. However, I don't see how he could have expected to maintain the integrity of the theory without going back into past lives. Seems like a pretty big compromise to make- after all, the truth is the truth is the truth.....
    May all living beings (including you and me) find true happiness and remain healthy; may they be wise and compassionate in their actions, may they find lasting peace, and may no harm come to them. May all beings find the patience and endurance to deal with disappointment and failure, may they be released from karma and may they find enlightenment. May loving kindness fill the hearts of all living beings, near and far.

  34. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to bram For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (25th May 2013), fourty-two (26th May 2013), Hervé (25th May 2013), hohoemi (25th May 2013), sygh (15th September 2013)

  35. Link to Post #198
    Thailand Avalon Member bram's Avatar
    Join Date
    23rd October 2012
    Location
    Bangkok, Thailand
    Age
    71
    Posts
    290
    Thanks
    1,080
    Thanked 1,262 times in 256 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by jiminii (here)
    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [...]

    At the time of publication, Ron Hubbard stated that the timeline begins at conception. Therefore, no engrams could exist prior to this. At the same time the book gives the impression that there are large numbers of clears in his organization, and defines clears as people who have no remaining engrams (i.e., they are clear of engrams). Later, and I have so far found only sketchy details about how this change came about, it was revealed that engrams exist from past lives. [...]



    Love, bram
    LRH was put pressure on to leave out past lives from the Dianetics data and procedure as being "too far out." His only regret about the book.

    It is still "too far out" for a large portion of the population as reflected by the debates happening on this forum with the threads dealing with re-incarnation.
    I never read that part ... the part I read was that if running past lives removed the engram than run the past lives

    jim
    Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

    Love, bram
    May all living beings (including you and me) find true happiness and remain healthy; may they be wise and compassionate in their actions, may they find lasting peace, and may no harm come to them. May all beings find the patience and endurance to deal with disappointment and failure, may they be released from karma and may they find enlightenment. May loving kindness fill the hearts of all living beings, near and far.

  36. The Following User Says Thank You to bram For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (26th May 2013)

  37. Link to Post #199
    France On Sabbatical
    Join Date
    7th March 2011
    Location
    Brittany
    Posts
    16,763
    Thanks
    60,315
    Thanked 95,889 times in 15,481 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Quote Posted by bram (here)
    [...]

    Nope. The book specifically states that the timeline begins at conception, and extends to the present moment.

    Love, bram
    Correct about the Dianetics book.

    Past lives were addressed in subsequent books (i.e. Science of Survival) where the advice given for running into a past life incident for someone who doesn't believe in past lives is to just run the incident as an engram and erase it.

    Of course, keeping running into past lives incidents and running them to "resolve the case" leads directly to "something" surviving the body in order to carry memories and re-creating problems into the current life... the body itself having none of these memories to start with.

    Hence, very early on, LRH started to investigate what exactly was carrying those memories and re-creating them into present time... "Spirit!" and its "theta body"... and the determination and conclusion derived from it was that "spirit/thought" is boss above anything else.

    The above directly led to Scientology because of the dealings in the spiritual realm in contrast to Dianetics which got cornered to the "one-life-time" body ailments/somatics.


    Quote Posted by Amzer Zo (here)
    A few words on these different memory lines…

    I am gonna draw from a very old Gypsy tradition (Pierre Derlon; Tradition Occultes des Gitans) which summarizes Man as:

    “The figure 3 and its geometrical transcription – the triangle -- means “Life.” Numerous jewelries are constructed around that number. According to Tzigans, Man as a whole is constituted of a body which rots, a spirit which persists and an immaterial body as an interface between these two.”

    That’s the “body-mind-spirit” thing that’s being trashed around.

    It’s a trinity constituted of elements which are independent of each other and thrown together to make up a human being. This is represented in the universal “Triskel” with three independently originated spirals joining together to form a central triangle. Later traditions omitted the generating spirals to only keep the central composite triangle.

    From there, we end up with three independent memory lines; one genetic, one spiritual and one from the interface. Hence the confusion as to whose memories one is accessing through whichever method.

    Here is a quick rundown of the complexity that can be achieved with such combinations:

    Genetic/biological line memories: retains its own experiences PLUS the experiences of the mind-interfaces which have influenced its lineage PLUS the memories of the various spirits which have influenced the other two along that same lineage.

    Rotate the above scenario for the mind line of memories and the spirit line of memories… you might find that the yarn that has been gone through by a few alley cats is kiddy stuff to unravel…

    Hence the $64,000 question:

    “Which question’s answer is worth knowing?”

    Biologist and geneticists as well as genealogists would go for the genetic line.

    Psychology and related fields have gone after the interface line but with a strong leaning on the genetic one.

    Religions and philosophies have been distorting the spirit line for eons… George W. Hoover’s “The Biggest Secret.”
    Last edited by Hervé; 25th May 2013 at 05:26.
    "La réalité est un rêve que l'on fait atterrir" San Antonio AKA F. Dard

    Troll-hood motto: Never, ever, however, whatsoever, to anyone, a point concede.

  38. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Hervé For This Post:

    AwakeInADream (25th May 2013), bram (25th May 2013), hohoemi (25th May 2013), kirolak (23rd May 2014), sygh (15th September 2013)

  39. Link to Post #200
    Germany Avalon Member wegge's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th January 2011
    Location
    germany
    Age
    32
    Posts
    506
    Thanks
    3,219
    Thanked 2,776 times in 451 posts

    Default Re: Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    is anyone interested in co-auditing? (2 rather newbies learning auditing by doing it with each other)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 28 FirstFirst 1 10 20 28 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts