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Thread: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

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    Germany Avalon Member christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    I just want to live with people that have a genuine desire to become aware, grow, and live in harmony. It's that simple.

    As for the transition phase, this is maybe the best video I have found on that. How to bring about the change? Also adresses the question of "what political system is the best" with a very interesting answer. Did you know about the Iroquois Federation?


    In other words, utopia is not a fixed la-la-land, but a state of being, the dynamics of a society. Even if there would be a destroyed and shattered surrounding, when all the people there would be focused on building themselves and their environment up, that would be my utopia.

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by CD7 (here)
    Quote Posted by gripreaper (here)
    Well, I want to expand my ego to the size of Texas, and satiate my carnal desires to maximum pleasure, so Utopia would include:

    This mansion:
    ------
    A stable of very expensive exotic cars:
    -------
    A harem of exotic gorgeous women at my beck and call:
    -------
    A smorgasbord of exotic foods in front of me at all times:
    -------
    Oh, and the biggest yacht:
    -------
    and BILLIONS of dollars:
    ------

    That should do it.


    Well shiit on a stick!! YOU are so in luck gripreaper CUZ GUESS WHT?...all the lovely shiit you want is already HERE............................................UG
    I would be happy with just the harem. Ooops I AM Happy!
    Last edited by Christine; 18th August 2013 at 17:15. Reason: images deleted at request of OP
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by araucaria (here)
    The film La Belle Verte offers a picture of how a rather less dysfunctional society than our own might operate:
    oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl
    The URL you posted:
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/oveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl

    The URL you apparently intended:
    http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/01/01/movie-green-beautiful-la-belle-verte-really-rare-awakening-movie-now-available-engl
    The intended URL as an active link, for your viewing pleasure: Movie: The Green Beautiful - "La Belle Verte" - Really Rare Awakening Movie Now Available In English - 1 Hour 30 Minutes.
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Ah - now that I've glanced at what this is - I remember seeing it before.

    It is a really, really, wonderful movie. Please do see it!
    My quite dormant website: pauljackson.us

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    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    OK, Let's let Gripreaper's tongue-in-cheek response represent a percentage of the population who are so unevolved that the furthest they can think in a discussion of a utopian Earth is self-gratification (material goods and even possessing a 'harem', indicating an exploitative, sociopathic "use" of women as sex toys.)

    It is a caricature, but I'm sure it does express the real "utopian vision" of a percentage of humans.

    Looking forward to Gripreaper's sincere vision, as it could not be much further from the one he posted.

    That post of his does put a magnifying glass on one of the bullet points of info that I had hoped each person would think about and post their ideas on:

    • What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)
    The answer to this question should be honest, straightforward, and off the top of your head. The answer to this question is one of the reasons I started the thread, and is a strong hint of another thread (yet to be started) that analyzes the contents of this one.

    Come one, come all... everyone from the newest member to the oldest, from the prolific posters to those who mainly read. Membership at Avalon is not just for reading (anyone can read - you don't need to be a member to read), and this is a topic that should be very easy to be interactive - it is simply expressing your opinion as opinion. What are your hopes and dreams for Earth and humanity while on Earth? A few people feel that Earth, the way humanity interacts with the Earth, and the way humanity interacts with humanity (including the most nefarious, most selfish, most warlike, most exploitative, most heinous behaviors such as torture and murder) is perfect - don't change a thing. Most others would request or create changes if they could. If you feel that anything is "out-of-whack", then use it to help you describe your vision of utopian living on Earth.

    Thanks!

    Dennis


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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Coincidentia Oppositorum - Unity of Opposites

    -- "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; .. then will you enter [the Kingdom]."

    Gospel of Thomas - 22

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    Avalon Member CD7's Avatar
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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote •What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)
    I would say you would solely own your own space, the vehicle you commandeer ...aside from this ALL resources species are not owned....shepherded but not owned

    Imagine the entire globe was One enormous house....the architects that design the most beneficial way for space to make sense and work in multiple ways are a gift. All who live in such a house, live in harmony. If anyones seen a house transformed into a 'heavenly' place and not only looks glorious but works/functions harmoniously on MULITPLE levels---they can somewhat invision wht im saying

    its a great thing to see the possibilities materialized... especially if beforehand the house looked like a mangy shack, decrepit and falling apart with no vision seen as to its potential afterwards

    So in considering this House to be everyone's... "ownership" really isn't apart of it...instead how to make this House work and thrive in the best way possible would be the focused goal
    We X Billions want to change the world and it appears we are......
    PARADISE IS POSSIBLE EVERYWHERE 4 EVERYONE

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    We had all this before we came to this planet few billion years ago. A couple of us can get creating on a planet. We can put a lot of bodies there and have them creating anything we want, harems, gold, you name it we could create it in. And we'd get playing these games on a planet, "from the spirit", and create a bunch of armies and send them off to fight the other spirit beings armies and one of us would create viruses to go make the other beings armies sick .. OH YES ... we could create it all, and then we'd just get bored with it and run off somewhere else leave the planet with whatever we put there.

    So what you see is on this planet. Don't know if you can call that Utopia if you can just create anything you want out of nothing but all the things you can dream of having living as a body with this body think?????? Well, to be myself again all powerful and out there making what ever games I decide to, maybe that would be Utopia.

    But you see I have Utopia right now on this planet. One of the MOST DIFFICULT GAMES TO PLAY BEING TRAPPED IN THE CREATION ITSELF.

    You know I wouldn't change it for the world. I did more things from NOT KNOWING ANYTHING that I somehow managed to revive and did what most people on the planet would say is literally impossible, (not impossible up there being a creator), and I win. I also lose, but out of it all I can feel the life source and beingness in it's worse condition but it's OK ... I think I should go back to USA and live with the Indians if they will have me. That would be my last BIG WIN.
    Last edited by jiminii; 18th August 2013 at 15:56.

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

    Thanks,

    Dennis
    Last edited by Dennis Leahy; 18th August 2013 at 15:48.


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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    I'd just like to point out the reality behind those images, which we have seen ad nauseam now....the girl on that beach would never have a clue how to get along with the staff of that mansion, that yacht, that private plane....nor the owner, for that matter.
    But grip knows that already. The devil is in the maintenance...no utopia there


    Edit: I just saw that Dennis had a similar reaction to mine. I wonder who else?
    Last edited by ulli; 18th August 2013 at 15:50.

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Three sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

    Thanks,

    Dennis

    Thanks, Dennis, for standing up for your utopian vision here.
    In my utopia there would be no vulgarity, and sex would remain a private matter,
    one of mutual consent.

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    The question of ownership is at the very core of manifestation. Even the elite controllers know that everything is about trusts. They set up the original Cestui Que trusts in the 1600's and the energy of these trusts are still in play. They know that they own nothing and we should too.

    What we do have, is the ability to create, as Jiminni states above, based on energy and our abilities to generate and focus it towards manifestation. So, what we create in our reality, the hologram we live in, is our highest and best creation based on where we are and how evolved we are. This reality changes as we change.

    So, the intention of what this utopia would look like, is already within us, and we hold this idea as we descend from source into further density, and we are returning to this utopia as we learn to hold individuated consciousness in a body.

    To me, it looks like an etheric energy body fully enlivened, the entire rainbow bridge of all the aspects of the pure light of consciousness, unified and held in physicality, with empathy and compassion for those who are still playing the game of duality.

    In a nutshell, it's love personified.
    Last edited by gripreaper; 18th August 2013 at 16:11.
    "Lay Down Your Truth and Check Your Weapons
    The Next Voice You Hear Will Be Your OWN"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhS69C1tr0w

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

    Thanks,

    Dennis
    GOT Ya I SNIPPED IT MYSELF

    JIM

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    • What (if anything) would you solely own and what (if anything) would have no ownership (either shared among all or be "off-limits"/preserved)
    The answer to this question should be honest, straightforward, and off the top of your head. The answer to this question is one of the reasons I started the thread, and is a strong hint of another thread (yet to be started) that analyzes the contents of this one.
    Hi Dennis. Thanks for your thread. I found your request for a description of vision of Utopia coming up several times after I read and so you are definitely spreading the thoughtfulness on the question.....

    This one statement above as a ground is right on for me.

    I want access to anything and ownership of nothing. Owning is an ordeal. Through my experience I have seen how hoarding anything leads to weight.

    Wanting access to tools and being thwarted to access leads to false ties to " slavery to job, holding on to past due relationships, the ordeal of daily dealing with maintenance of "stuff" that is not then useful (but might be sometime...so lets hold on to everything in case).

    I am sure that I do not want to give up being able to have the lifestyle that brings me experiences I like. But it would be no sweat to share everything.

    I live in a rural area with all kinds of people who have very little to lots of stuff and this particular "neediness" is overwhelming. "Poor" people just don't have. "Rich" people are locked into paranoia of losing.

    Examples of enlightened stuff missing here, no public transportation, public baths, commercial kitchens, coffee houses. The library is under funded.

    In fact I really believe IF we could all have the opportunity to satiate the play with stuff, we would soon realize how we want something even more satisfying.

    One other aspect of Utopia as I see it for me... is the relationship of me as a Human to animals. I maintain a household at the moment of two dogs, 7 chickens, 7 cats. They do not travel well. The dogs would like that but Humans "out in the world" segregate dogs.

    The "utopian" pictures that show big city plans for Humans don't seem to have animals. And I'd also like to interact with wilderness and wild life. When I mean that, I mena "communicatively" and as in being friends.

    I'd love to be in a position to interact with all kinds of "domestic" animals... cows, goats, horses, llamas, alpaca, sheep, birds of all TOO. These persons all need care. I cannot do that alone. But this is the expectation.

    I'd be poor material for a community based on ideation. I want my own space. A yurt with a community house might work. People banding together out of utility so we could all enjoy more freedom qould be excellent. There would be a necessary willingness to put all the group members efforts in and be fair.

    Also, I totally believe that we have the capacity for 360 degree senses and bilocation, teleportation, instant creation.... Yes, the woowoo. But I always believed this is the case.
    My Utopia is all dedicated to using these skills. And one other skill and aspect of my Utopia...no need to eat and able to take energy direct from source. We could have fruit trees and milk and no need to grow anything.

    When I FIRST (3rd grade) heard about the "primitive Native Americans", I knew that they were way more advanced than we. They found so much satisfaction with no stuff. It was obvious that they didn't need it. They no doubt had a way of seeing into the world that was so rich and so skilled and so Intelligent that they enjoyed making selected art to use and were so light they were able to walk on leaves without making a sound.

    Being an ORIGINAL Human in a community of ORIGINAL Humans enjoying being alive is Utopia to me. Our relationship to stuff (how much we need and who may use it?) is a jump off place. In the maturing through exposure to stuff, We need less and less. As we focus on less and less naturally (BECAUSE we were satisfied to the hilt with the weight of it) WE ARE more and more.

    Yes, I think to have it all available and let everyone use everything freely but maintain the stuff communally is a big step to ending up in Utopia.

    Thanks, Maggie

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Images are snipped, I had the same reaction so was happy to comply.

    Quote Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
    I'd like to ask a mod to leave gripreaper's original post with images, but to *snip* the images from Chester's and Jim's and CD7's replies - and ask that no one quote that cluster of images back again. Four! sets of those images (so far) is derailing the thread. I am also assuming that Chester (justoneman), though he may have a powerful libido, would not really want to exploit/own/control women. Not all of our members have read enough of Chester's words to know this, so I'm making a fuss out of it to also keep that from derailing the thread. As I said in my previous post, the response that Gripreaper posted is not his own, is is a parody (for him) and I don't think there are any members at Avalon that could honestly say it describes their vision. One parody response in the thread is plenty, so let's move ahead with sincere responses.

    Thanks,

    Dennis

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------

    I was there once, and it has been mythologized as Shambhala. The real name was Shang-Shung, in western Tibet: even now it is extremely hard to get to. Here is a photo of the ruins:





    I was there for four lifetimes, in the AD 820-975 period. It was a beautiful, idyllic community of peace, study, meditation and learning. The little paradise -- which was famous for a thousand miles around -- eventually fell into dereliction through natural climate change, when the rains failed.

    It gradually became desertified, and in the end nothing would grow there any more. The apricot trees withered, and the barley fields became dust bowls. When the goats and yaks started to give birth to stillborn, because they were so dehydrated, we took that as a sign, and very reluctantly left for good.

    The loss was hard for us to understand or accept, but we knew it meant that the seat of learning would spread further as we went our different ways for different reasons.

    Other communities were re-founded elsewhere, but nothing matched it. It was a sacred place, and these are not so easily cloned. I have some very vivid memories of those times, and it fully deserved its place in Tibetan legend.

    Of course, the exact same thing has happened 1000 years later, as Tibet itself became ruined -- only for its timeless heritage to re-emerge and be sustained elsewhere in the world, for the benefit of all.
    I remember Tibet too ... i just don't remember what part I was in. The patola palace looks so familiar but then Where was I during that time???

    I've wanted to get back to Tibet but not sure where.

    jim

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    Bill is pointing out a place near a familiar area for me.
    Seriously, I have a great affinity for this part of the world.

    I went to someone doing regression and imagined a significant lifetime. I recall it as if it was a myth.
    I identified this general area and then found it because I knew home bordered the silk road.
    .
    This "lifetime" story made me interested in the general region where the Caucasion Mummies were found on the outskirts of the Tarim Basin.
    The story wasn't happy and describes a feeling of deep disillusionment with myself and disappointment in my choices.
    This related to the topic of Utopia because I believe there was a Utopic lifestyle that I was itching to escape. It was insular. I can still feel the strong desires I recalled in the regression.

    In that story I imagine a homeland on the edges of a desert near mountains.
    I can imagine a stepped plain and grassland and many waterfalls and caves.
    We were pastoral and traders but had a home.
    The home was stone filled with rugs and very clean and sophisticated.
    We had all the comforts of warmth and gracious living.
    It was an insular community.

    In my imagination, I can feel how much I craved to know more AND SEE THE WORLD.
    We were sort of like "pickers" who brought regional goods to a city.
    We made a trip several times a year on horseback to the markets.
    I can feel a longing to get away.

    In the story I was self involved, arrogant, kind of abrasive.
    I left my wife and family to seek "knowledge"
    At the end I felt failure even though I had my wish and saw a lot and learned a lot.
    I had left home and now I would never see that home place or my family again.
    The nostalgia I feel for that home and my family stuck.

    Loneliness, disappointment and disillusionment were emotions in the story.
    These difficult tendencies or negative qualities are hard ones to break now.
    In that life I imagine, I had chosen to leave but dearly wished to die in my bed with family around me.

    I was in a dark place, hungry and dying, cold, dirty and had pain and sores. It was bitter.
    I knew that I was responsible and there because of all the choices I had ever made.
    I was doubting in myself as if the life was wasted.

    If I were home, my body would be honored and I could be buried with my wife.
    This end would have my body and my bones dispersed.

    In the dreamy life end review, I sent a message to my daughter she would "hear".
    It was the last thing I did and took all my energy.
    The knowing I had is that we were always in contact like psychic letters passed.

    I knew she would understand everything and know how much I regretted.
    She would be able to tell the others.
    This gave me some peace and I died.

    If I had it all to do over again, I bet I'd leave home. I feel I would do that even if I knew the end. It was such a yearning life....to leave, to be unable to return....
    In this life I still have these inexplicable contradictions in myself.

    Will we be able to have inner contradiction and have our Utopia?
    Can Utopia handle sharp edges and lusts?
    Can we give up "wandering" off course when we feel driven to express even if that leads to a bad end?
    Life has been a drama I stir. Can I give up the "itch" to have my way? Do I need to do that to be in Utopia?

    I am thinking about all this tonight because life is seemingly complicated.

  32. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Delight For This Post:

    Christine (19th August 2013), Dennis Leahy (20th August 2013), Sierra (20th August 2013)

  33. Link to Post #78
    United States Avalon Member Dennis Leahy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    "Dig deep, me hearties..." (said in my best fake guttural pirate-speak) "...dig deep." OK, so you read a few other people's visions of Utopia. That's OK. Unless you have been forced into survival mode your entire life, you've probably been thinking about this (at some level) your entire life. Even pragmatic people who are "saving" or "building" or "working towards..." are daydreaming of something better than "the way it is..."

    C'mon, put those fingers on that keyboard. Please do look at the original post, and try to include those potential Catch-22s in utopia: 'possession' and 'persons harming others.' How are they handled in your vision of Utopia?

    Thank you!

    Dennis


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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    The only thing that should ever be owned is responsibility for yourself (actions, thoughts, emotions).

    In a world where that is true, items that should not be messed with by everyone are not owned, they are taken responibility of by those who are able.

    As "coveting" would be a quaint imagining from tales of fantastical backwards alien "societies" of lore or fables (more like barbian hordes, who just called themselves "civilized"), in the REAL world there wouldn't be concern over who POSSESSES said item, it would be silly to worry over such things.

    Words would own meanings though. Language would be concise, careful not to be manipulative. It would be truth.

    And those that understood these concepts best, this unconditional loving sort of way, would own responsibility to teach others, or at least initiate discussion or learning situations or something, engaging as many as are around or available for it.

    And maybe the only other ownership allowed is for the desire to learn and grow and love. Doesn't that naturally come with a revulsion toward the concept of "ownership of possessions"?

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    Default Re: Describe "Utopia." YOUR own vision, your own version of utopia

    I was thinking its kinda synchronistic how I been using the concept of "ownership" as the whole reason we don't have a currently utopia now, as demonstrated here:

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...9127-Ownership

    Added: heh!! Re-reading the thread, I just said pretty much same exact thing I said now back in May!! Except then I was trying to be a poet:


    Started thinking in haiku:

    Love, Truth, All That Is
    Everything worth possessing
    Is unownable


    Thanks Dennis for turning it around! I was looking it from a negative angle, but I felt utopia = here/now (minus ownership)
    Last edited by donk; 20th August 2013 at 07:06.

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