Posted by Napping (here)
I'm not the type of person who would gain any enjoyment from "winning" an argument against a fellow parent who has suffered the way you have with your child, but you don't know me and you're probably used to having to defend your stance against people who argue for the sake of arguing with no sense of empathy..
I'm genuinely concerned about vaccinating my child, but simply can't find anything comclusive re causation between vaccines and adverse effects on a large scale. I've got little doubt it does occur to vulnerable individuals which worries me a lot.
I agree that high level research won't be funded for this issue because of what it may find and that is horrible.
Your last point suggests a new trajectory regarding our covnersation thus far all together and that is that this is being purposefully done by nefarious individuals. I don't believe that is the case. I believe vaccines were introduced with good intensiond, but perhaps I'm naive.
You're right I should hold up my end of the argument with all the evidence that refutes what you're implying, but right now I'm under the pump, which is why I asked you guys in the first place.
Thanks for the chat.
well GD it don't give up, keep looking for papers.
I can try to find more too. Some were saved to a hard drive that has been removed from a laptop and unrecoverable.
I think I've researched this for maybe 5 years. Not very well, not organized, but enough to be personally convinced, vaccines can cause harm.
I am not sure about whether it's intentional.
But we know the electric chair and hangman's noose are intentional.
Sterilization is intentional. Lots of people in foreign countries are being intentionally starved.
Is it so hard to believe that USA/EU would have an interest in removing certain genotypes?
That is very far-fetched, but so was Hitler. In fact the reason so many people have trouble believing the WWII stories,
about German and Japanese experimentation on humans, is that they are far-removed from any mainstream concept of decency and humanity.
I actually respect you for giving humans the benefit of the doubt.
But as some of my friends point out, behavior changes a lot under the perception of scarcity.
And the watchword of the age? "Sustainability".
_________________________
In Washington state, for example, the feds had to look into the condition of foster care and funding given to families enrolled with DDD for autism services.
Because the state was refusing help across the board to families with autism.
The same governing body that virtually forces vaccination (or is it CORPORATE MUSCLE behind this and not the state?) is refusing help to damaged kids.
Please consider, just consider (not necessarily believe w. whole heart) that you're better off in the long run without needles in your life.
Your kids have a better chance of having healthy offspring without factors that mess with DNA and gene expression, protein modulation, etc.
Isn't it bad enough to know about the report from CBS, straight from a woman who worked for the vaccine makers?
i know people made fun of this article but the woman was a real expert:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccines...ntific-review/
and this journalist ended up having to resign because of trouble at work, censorship, interference with investigating.
and Helen says the same thing, there is interference against investigating.
BySharyl AttkissonCBS NewsApril 1, 2011, 7:55 AM
Vaccines and autism: a new scientific review
For all those who've declared the autism-vaccine debate over - a new scientific review begs to differ. It considers a host of peer-reviewed, published theories that show possible connections between vaccines and autism.
The article in the Journal of Immunotoxicology is entitled "Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes--A review." The author is Helen Ratajczak, surprisingly herself a former senior scientist at a pharmaceutical firm. Ratajczak did what nobody else apparently has bothered to do: she reviewed the body of published science since autism was first described in 1943. Not just one theory suggested by research such as the role of MMR shots, or the mercury preservative thimerosal; but all of them.
Ratajczak's article states, in part, that "Documented causes of autism include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis [brain damage] following vaccination [emphasis added]. Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain."
The article goes on to discuss many potential vaccine-related culprits, including the increasing number of vaccines given in a short period of time. "What I have published is highly concentrated on hypersensitivity, Ratajczak told us in an interview, "the body's immune system being thrown out of balance."
University of Pennsylvania's Dr. Brian Strom, who has served on Institute of Medicine panels advising the government on vaccine safety says the prevailing medical opinion is that vaccines are scientifically linked to encephalopathy (brain damage), but not scientifically linked to autism. As for Ratajczak's review, he told us he doesn't find it remarkable. "This is a review of theories. Science is based on facts. To draw conclusions on effects of an exposure on people, you need data on people. The data on people do not support that there is a relationship. As such, any speculation about an explanation for a (non-existing) relationship is irrelevant."
Helen Ratajczak, author "Theoretical aspects of autism: Causes--A review."
Ratajczak also looks at a factor that hasn't been widely discussed: human DNA contained in vaccines. That's right, human DNA. Ratajczak reports that about the same time vaccine makers took most thimerosal out of most vaccines (with the exception of flu shots which still widely contain thimerosal), they began making some vaccines using human tissue. Ratajczak says human tissue is currently used in 23 vaccines. She discusses the increase in autism incidences corresponding with the introduction of human DNA to MMR vaccine, and suggests the two could be linked. Ratajczak also says an additional increased spike in autism occurred in 1995 when chicken pox vaccine was grown in human fetal tissue.
Why could human DNA potentially cause brain damage? The way Ratajczak explained it to me: "Because it's human DNA and recipients are humans, there's homologous recombinaltion tiniker. That DNA is incorporated into the host DNA. Now it's changed, altered self and body kills it. Where is this most expressed? The neurons of the brain. Now you have body killing the brain cells and it's an ongoing inflammation. It doesn't stop, it continues through the life of that individual."
Dr. Strom said he was unaware that human DNA was contained in vaccines but told us, "It does not matter...Even if human DNA were then found in vaccines, it does not mean that they cause autism." Ratajczak agrees that nobody has proven DNA causes autism; but argues nobody has shown the opposite, and scientifically, the case is still open.
A number of independent scientists have said they've been subjected to orchestrated campaigns to discredit them when their research exposed vaccine safety issues, especially if it veered into the topic of autism. We asked Ratajczak how she came to research the controversial topic. She told us that for years while working in the pharmaceutical industry, she was restricted as to what she was allowed to publish. "I'm retired now," she told CBS News. "I can write what I want."
We wanted to see if the CDC wished to challenge Ratajczak's review, since many government officials and scientists have implied that theories linking vaccines to autism have been disproven, and Ratajczak states that research shows otherwise. CDC officials told us that "comprehensive review by CDC...would take quite a bit of time." In the meantime, CDC provided these links:
Interagency Autism Coordination Committee: http://iacc.hhs.gov
Overview of all CDC surveillance and epi work: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/research.html
CDC study on risk factors and causes: http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/seed.html
© 2011 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
______________________________________________-
tesla says: i care about this issue but refuse to do all the work for you guys. i need more help from you. there is no excuse to let one person do it all lol. i am not the only one here capable of reading an article. let's start learning some new words, people ..... how many years would it take the forum to get up to speed on vaccines?