Thoughts on Christianity (no pushing)

[Kalamos]

..........

[Bill Ryan]

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Once the dogma, authoritarian control structure, misuse of the religion for political ends, and spinning of Christ's original, real, message are all stripped away -- there's a great deal of value there.

But Christianity as most people understand it, and what Christ actually taught 2000 years ago, may be two very different things indeed.

[S-L]

"It is the state that Jesus acquired that you must earnestly desire.... Regarding the religion that has been established around him, it has little to do with him." -- Secrets of Heaven

[Anchor]

May I offer this passage. It is channeled and this, strictly speaking is not the correct place, but it seems to me relevant to your thread - and perfectly complements what Bill says above - once you strip most religions down to the essence, they become excellent resources for seeking.

In a few short words, the entity being channeled does a neat job with Christianity and Buddhism. What is discussed is the essence and not the surrounding layers of dogma and "interpretation".

The query this evening has to do with the one known as Siddhartha, or the Buddha, and what he has to teach about spiritual enlightenment. We find in order to approach this in a way which may be more helpful, we would take some time to speak about the two strains of religious thought that are encapsulated in the teachings of the one known as Jesus the Christ and the one known as the Buddha.

Both entities, Jesus and Siddhartha, offer tremendous resources to those who are seeking the truth. They have different areas of appeal but that which they hold in common is powerful. To them both the seeking of the Creator, service to the Creator, time spent in the company of the Creator are all in all. To both, there is no priority greater than spiritual seeking. Both of them lived lives that indicated this preference, this concern, and this devotion.

There are two different styles of seeking when gazing at these two powerful and poignant beings. To one, knowing that his kingdom was not of this world, he nevertheless entered into the world with all of his heart and soul and nothing in his heart but love for all he saw. As he entered in, so his physical body was destroyed by that which he took upon himself: the suffering of the world. All suffering was taken into the self and accepted. That it destroyed his physical body was not that which was important to the one known as Jesus the Christ, but rather that he do his father’s bidding. “Not my will, but thine,” were his words.

The Buddha saw the same world and knew that he was not of it or part of it. Consequently, his path did not move into the open heart and take all of the suffering of the world into the self. Rather, he allowed the things of the world to fall away as they seemed to want to fall away in his view. Over the period of a lifetime he was able to investigate each path in the world and conclude that that was not his path. The principle of “neti-neti, not this and not that” [1] comes into play here. Thusly, as the Buddha allowed all to fall away except the seeking for the one Creator, the entity no longer was concerned with the suffering of the world except to pray that all suffering might cease. There was not the attempt to take on the suffering of the world; rather, the attempt was to allow the suffering of the one known as the Buddha to fall away and as suffering fell away from the Buddha, so it would fall away from the world.

[soleil]

err..since ive read enough esoteric/occult literature to know that Christianity is based on (a skewed version of) everything that was already in place prior; and then (people) just gave it a different name.

personally, my religion is nature. and in addition to that....by taking everything else that ive read (so far) about the universe, theories of creations, us being souls, law of one, higherselves, and not to mention my own connection to higherself and OBE...that is to me, a profound basis for being, to me; that i feel why do i need any religion? including Christianity.

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
But Christianity as most people understand it, and what Christ actually taught 2000 years ago, may be two very different things indeed.

exactly. i agree on this.

[soleil]

ya but so can buddhism?

[greybeard]

A lot of people need the support, sharing and fellowship to be fond in a religious establishment.
Christianity serves many well and some not so well.
The path of Enlightenment is a some what solitary pursuit.
Its rare, apart from online here, that I can discuss the teachings of Ramna Mharshi or even Eckhart Tolle.

Chris

[Sebastion]

Sorry Calamus, but your statement saying that the Christ Consciousness is the highest that man can reach is in error and untrue. There are three levels or frequencies of Christ Consciousness and the same holds true for Buddha Consciousness.

Man can achieve full god consciousness which is beyond Christ Consciousness as well. That is what full Cosmic Consciousness is about. Christ isn't going to save you from you, only you can do that hence looking to Jesus Christ for salvation is a fallacy of religious dogma.

I cannot capitalize the term "god consciousness" for it is a lesser term as far as I am concerned. It is more properly and rightfully termed the One Consciousness.

Posted by Calamus (here)
making Christianity your own can be a great path for anyone seeking such a thing. God as creator god imminent, his spirit as the energy of this world all of it, and Christ as the highest consciousness potential that we can reach as man. this is the Trinity and easily accepted one at that.

sin and grace are equal to karma. through the emotional transformation that Christians experience as salvation a transformation can be had that can propel the soul toward a goodness in this life that will mitigate much of the karma, that is eliminating sins from one's life and increasing blessings through His grace..

worship increases one's grace and blessings if done from the right attitude in the emotional world.

prayer is transferring that energy and also drawing it to oneself in one's life through the law of attraction in the law of radiation? (I forget the proper term)

you simply choose to believe in these things I said above, take what you want from the Bible as it is mostly meant to be read figuratively and personally in my opinion ( esoterically ).

you don't have to go to church but you'd be surprised at how nice and sweet people are at certain modern churches. non-denominational in multi denominational churches. you will hear testimony from peoples whose lives have changed, and that is that their karma has turned around.

taken to an extreme, austerity and goodness in any life and under any path can lead one to a liberation from reincarnation which is hell in this life.

at the same time there is a middle way once that level is reached the person is in communion with the spirit and can do as he will in certain ways and regarding certain laws of life.

all of what I said can be correlated to other religions.

these are just my thoughts this early morning today on Christianity. no pushing

[S-L]

"Christianity and all the other major religions have fostered a bridge between cultures and between races. These are not simply religions of one tribe or one group. They are religions for all of humanity. This is not to say that everyone can adhere to them, follow them or receive them, but they bridge the normal boundaries that seem to separate people and cast them apart. The religion of forgiveness, the religion of reunion with the Divine, the religion of human development, the religion of compassion—all of these tremendous movements in the evolution of religion in the world were fostered by the establishment of the world’s religions, which have brought the world to its present state."

[Sebastion]

Pure spiritual man is already part and parcel of the All In All and that is as super as it gets. The problem on earth with mankind is that mankind is busy being "material" man and is hampered greatly by "their mind", "wetico". Prior to learning those terms and what that's about, I would have called it "social consciousness" which is all about not knowing and being too busy with the material world and man made religion.

The "way" is always within you and always was. I prefer using my own words rather than posting what a half dozen gurus have said.

If I were to refer to anyone, I would refer you to the writings of Walter Russell. My experiences in consciousness very closely resembles his.

Posted by Calamus (here)
Ok Sebastian. which of these consciousnesses liberates man from the cycle of reincarnation do both of them?

¤=[Post Update]=¤

one could say when a man reaches Christ consciousness is no longer a man but a Superman and from there he may reach God consciousness not as a man but a Superman

[Camilo]

Christ is a state of consciousness, not a being.

[soleil]

it seems that there are many paths to learning consciousness, and i believe that religion is a distraction from the truth or maybe just a crutch. perhaps there can be a point here on earth where we can clarify and point to the path most straightforward, to/for those who get lost/seem lost; without essentially inviting them to a religion to lighten the way - as though it is the only way.
perhaps it is a way for some people (Im not saying that it isnt), but if you can critically go as far back as you can in religious texts, to the source of what was really being relayed.. maybe we can enlighten those to a bigger picture, than just one printed in a book that we like to believe more than the others....

maybe religion is also just poetry and allegory.

[Sebastion]

We are all the "sons and daughters" of the One, The All In the All. It can be no other way, yet "their mind", "wetico" would prevent you from realizing that. Therefore it is your task to see beyond it and thus, save yourself from the delusions and illusions. If your attention is always outside of you, you will never find the way within you.

Posted by Calamus (here)
also Sebastian. within Christianity God and His Son Christ are as 1 and we're talking about Christianity here at least I am.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

of course we can correlate things as you please as we please

[ginnyk]

Interesting thread. For me, the one thing I could never reconcile is the doctrine of original sin. It is the belief that because of the sins of Adam, we are born in sin, are sinners and will remain in sin and darkness until we are redeemed or saved by the grace of Christ. We are lost until another being or savior chooses to offer his grace provided we have confessed to enough sins to be accepted. In my understanding, this is very different from a spiritual being choosing to experience physical life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_sin

Gin

[Robin]

Christianity and organized religion, to me, have so perverted and twisted the very essence of what it means to be spiritual to the point where I shudder to hear anything that has to do with Christianity.

Because of its corrupted messages, doctrines, and rituals, I literally cannot even use the word "God." I prefer to use the words "Creator, Providence, Source, or All That Is."

I was a staunch atheist for eight years of my life because of the corruption of organized religion. I didn't even know that there was another option and one can be spiritual without being religious.

I think that this is why there are still so many atheists who are on the other extreme of the spectrum. They long for something more, and know in the back of my mind that there is more to life, but the corruption of spiritual teachings have done their job by separating, confusing, and upsetting people to the point where we now live in a convoluted world. They don't know that spirituality is a beautiful and logical concept once dogma has been removed.

Sure, Christianity does provide some good teachings, but atheists can just as much be moral and have a service-to-others outlook than those who consider themselves spiritual. I think that it is quite offending to suggest otherwise.

Labels--whether they be religion, diet (vegan, vegetarian), race, etc.--are all hazardous ad continue to create disunity among the Human Race.

The sooner we get down on our knees and worship somebody, then sooner we place ourselves into servitude.

I like the work that Bill Ryan does, and am thankful for his work and the fact that it help me wake up, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to think of him as being superior and call myself a "Bill Ryanist"!. I don't understand why people even look at celebrities in a higher light and beg for autographs. They are people too but have taken their skills and wisdom and accomplished a large task. That's all. Anyone can do great things if they dedicate their time.

I'm done ranting now.

[Tesla_WTC_Solution]

Vs.19 “ Yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding that I might teach others also than 10,000 words in a tongue.”

Hey there, Calamus!

I really respect that you are willing to post this -- short and sweet, too, which suggests that you welcome discussion.

My parents were "sort of" Christian; i.e. my mom prayed with us, lived a good life, took us to church a LOT, kids' programs;
but at the same time, my supposedly Christian dad was skipping on his duties, not working, being mean, etc, drinking every day, cussing/molesting people...
he didn't seem to believe that he was saved.

My father was more worried about Hell, actually, than living a good life, it seemed.
He had his good moments, even gave what you might refer to as the "Plan of Salvation" to some of his friends.
But he didn't live like a Christian most days.
He eventually died of a drug overdose (unless it was foul play).
_____________________________________

1996

I went to Mongolia before the big mining boom brought all the recent Chinese influence there.
I was a homeschooled teenager and my relatives were teaching English at the time.
Of course, we had the spiritual aspect in mind, and were successful in that aspect thanks to some circumstances which might have been set up by the Old Man Upstairs...
We had a lot of people turning over a new leaf that year compared to many other years.

Our secret was, we treated money like a tool and not a master. We were less concerned about computers for the school and stuff like that than "do these people even have a Bible yet". Although we were probably among the poorest families in the effort, I felt that our efforts paid off well.
It's not a situation where people should take credit, though. I don't even want to say more about it here, because A.) I agreed not to talk about it and B.) they are leading better lives than I am with better teachers now.
____________________________________

1997

I had a terrible dream about insanity right before I left Mongolia.
It was the dream about the tower, the holy of holies inside the tower, and no light coming from the lighthouse.
I saw the smoke inside the tower where the holy of holies would have been.
I woke up with a terrible feeling, that a terrible evil had made a victory somewhere.
For the next 10 years I had little to no interest in the Faith at all.

When I came home from Mongolia, the family fell apart because of some things done by my dad.
He had molested me and a cousin and we told the family about it right before I went overseas.
He became a great source of stress in my life, even to the point where I was considering murder.
I couldn't think of a way for us to escape the world he made.
The irony is that I hated his mom so much over all of this, that I let this hatred destroy my desire to work in Mongolia ever again.

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2008

I had a weird experience in 2008. I felt like my Kundalini awoke.
I was seeing the future and it was very frightening.
Something inside kept directing me back to the book of Revelations.
It was like some manic force was driving me to study that book.
But in my capacity to understand, I didn't know why that was.
Everyone thought I was completely crazy -- yes, maybe I was...
but truth is truth.

-------------------------------------------
2011

After seeing a Jungian analyst for a little while, who happens to be a Christian minister also, I realized that Jesus wanted us to be thinkers and not just feelers.
The truly balanced minister has accepted both of his or her sexual aspects and speaks from both seats of knowledge. We are more than the sum of our parts.

My great struggle in life is the establishment of a work schedule and a gentle demeanor. And I have no great desire to serve someone who enabled a system that hurt me sexually. However, I am sure Jesus himself would have helped me whip my dad out of the house, now that I think of it, or told me where to go at least, had he been there.
But he wasn't there physically, and I wasn't strong enough to stand up to my father in a meaningful way. By the time I started talking back, I was in the military and said some horrifically hurtful things to him. I said he had no purpose, that when our grandmother died, he would have no job.
I feel partly responsible for his suicide, even if it was an accident. He drugging hard and feeling bad about himself.

WELL...

I feel that I don't fit in anywhere suitable in society and have no work to do that won't probably be stolen by someone else, which is not a very Christian attitude.
The grandparents who got me into going places for Him are too old and senile now to really care or be bothered.

If you want to pray for me and my family, I guess a good prayer would be to pray that we get help in regards to my son's autism.
None of my good Christian family wants to help us with him. They send me to places like Mongolia to "minister to strangers" and when i get home and have my only child,
and he happens to suffer mild retardation, they don't want any part of it.

I wonder why Christians are afraid sometimes to help with disabled people. Another reason to be bitter I guess, and should stop thinking about it.
Our American society expects people to get up and go to work. It's not exactly what Christ taught, because people skipped work just to be able to listen to him for a few minutes. So our gov't is able to take advantage of this confusion, i.e. some people willing to work and some not, and the societal labels seem to be what stick to people.

Like, outside of church, I am not a Lamb of God with a Sweet Little Autistic Boy.
I am just a bi-polar bitch with a soon-to-be criminal record and a disabled kid that I probably deserved to have,
etc etc etc.

__________________________________________________________________________


Something lately has been bugging me to go back to church; it was 5 years ago and it's back... LOL.
I tried to explain to my shrink, the churches where I live are big and scary. It's not like Seattle where there are a few little white shacks still lying about.
These churches are all HUGE, made of stone, stained glass, etc. whole nine yards of BS.
I somehow doubt that a voice like mine can pierce that heart of stone, if you get my meaning.

But I could try. There could be people there who agree about some of the autism things and could help my family.
As you read above, though, I don't have a lot of trust for pastors and fathers.

______________________________________________________________________________________

That's why this place is so cool -- the moderators aren't sexual predators, they don't wave their secret society memberships in our faces,
and they seem to value men AND women (and kids I hope! don't buy into population control).

______________________________________________________________________________________

WHAT IS IT?

Christianity was supposed to be about getting rid of notions of material self entitlement and re-assuming spiritual self-worth and effectiveness via living a humble yet exemplary life down here. Once everyone is on the same page and sharing with each other, almost any decent system can succeed.

Christianity as it was practiced back in the founding days (post-Christ) was very much like Communism, actually, except that there was religion, too!
That could be one reason that modern Christians have a hard time reconciling their beliefs with the gov't...

Christians are supposed to live together and share -- not hoard and hide and make fun of the less fortunate like so many Americans do.

No wonder so many Christians take the Moses option and leave the camp, put their tent outside, lOL

[skippy]

Posted by Calamus (here)

Posted by Camilo (here)
Christ is a state of consciousness, not a being.

Body of Christ-- a collective being ... Manafest right here even on Avalon as Christ consciousness

The Christ that was, is, and shall be. So be it.

[skippy]

The body of Christ embodies all and everything. It's the universal man, the all-inclusive Consciousness. It's impossible to escape Christ, while you are part of his body. You are (part of) 'it'. Luke 22:19: "And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me." Reconcile with Christ; Reconcile with All.




The zodiacal man - 15th century painting - Les Très Riches Heures

[markpierre]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
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Once the dogma, authoritarian control structure, misuse of the religion for political ends, and spinning of Christ's original, real, message are all stripped away -- there's a great deal of value there.

But Christianity as most people understand it, and what Christ actually taught 2000 years ago, may be two very different things indeed.

That's exactly right. Any even superficial examination of the great Christian mystics reveals an entirely different and personal experience than is revealed in dogma and rhetoric. Like any discipline, you have individuals who practice it and let it's mysteries unfold internally in them, and those who protect their material human agenda by parroting principles and enforcing them on others. The difference is night and day. Alive and dead in Jesus' terms.
Is God within you, and an energy to be revealed and understood and released through practice and experience? Or without you, that has to be agreed with and appeased through enforcement of rules and laws.
That's not to say that the latter can't lead one to the former. 'This doesn't work' is the usual route we take toward what will.

[ghostrider]

The message is more important than the messenger ... Live rightly , be honest , be kind to your neighbor, have forgiveness , patience , longsuffering , be at peace , strive every day to be a better person , most can agree with that , it's when they say my way or the highway or burn in hell that gives me problems ... where is love in join me or Die ??? According to the plejaren the same message has been sent seven times to earth , each time it is corrupted by power hungry men , changing names and making themselves rulers by the order of god ... Man made the person more important than the message ... according to the plejaren , Immanuel was falsely named Jesus , and a religion was set up in his name, when all along he was trying to teach following the spirit and not the traditions of men ...