Is atheism a religion?

[LivioRazlo]

A friend of mine which I graduated high school with posted a feed on Facebook in which he talks about Christianity, in that there are two types of Christians. A little background on my friend, he currently is retired from the U.S. Marines and was a prominent figure in removing a nativity scene from Shaw A.F.B. through the MRFF (Military Religious Freedom Foundation). He was even called out by Sarah Palin on Fox News - read more here. To quote my friend, he states:

You either accept the Yahweh is a misogynistic homophobe or you reject that in favor of picking out the pieces you like - namely the socialistic loving doctrine of Christ. You quite simply can't have both.

For some reason I felt compelled to comment on this thread, not in the defense of Christianity, but for the goal of enlightenment. I proceeded to tell my friend that I have read the Bible cover to cover and believe it was written by man - which let's be honest, is flawed ten times to sundown. I also stated that there is a lot of good stories with messages, as well as bad. I proceeded to explain that though I do identify with Christianity, I let the Law of Love dictate in my life. This comment came under the scrutiny of many of his followers stating that I was a cherry-picking what I wanted to believe.

I didn't let this get me down though. I proceed to explain that atheism in of itself is a religion. I must have swatted and hit a hornets nest because that got them really fired up. The reason I see atheism as a religion is because atheists believe that there is no God to which scientific evidence can prove without a shadow of a doubt.

How I defended my statement is that religion, as defined by Dictionary.com, is "a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects" and that a belief is "trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something." Not to mention an article which I read earlier this year that what you could call an atheist church sprang up.

If my logic on this issue is flawed, please, feel free to enlighten me. These are my thoughts and do not reflect the purpose and goal of this website.

[DeDukshyn]

I find atheists tend to have very strong beliefs. They have a belief that God doesn't exist.

The argument they use is that they "don't believe that God exists" and believers "believe that God exists". So they think that they are the "control" because they don't have a belief on the topic and believers do. However, this is foolishly wrong. If an atheist claims to "not believe that God exists", it is well left open for them to be completely indifferent on the topic and not having a stance one way or another. I never met a person who claimed to be an atheist and say, "I don't have a belief about this topic - so I'm an atheist", maybe its out there - but I have never seen it.

So when we hear atheists say "I don't believe in God" -- this is actually a gross generalization, and somewhat misleading. Through deductive reasoning, we can see that what they are actually saying is, "I believe that God does not exist". -- This IS a belief, there is no way around it. And to boot, it is an un-provable belief. There is no proof that God does not exist, nor proof that he does, (unless you experience what God really is, that is ), so atheism is very much like a religion in this regard - in their terms, based on logic. It's just a very "unorganized" one

My 2 cents ... And love to my fellow "believer atheists"

[DeDukshyn]

All that said -- I always end up agreeing with a lot of the stuff atheists say about religions, I'm not religious - abhor them for myself (perfect for some), but I am spiritual.

[LivioRazlo]

Couldn't agree with you more DeDukshyn. Thanks for your enlightening point of view.

[rgray222]

You have to make a "leap of faith" to believe there is a God. You have to make that same "leap of faith" to believe that there is no God. I saw a piece on the mainstream media about a month ago that said that atheist are hiring their own ministers for the military. They are a large and growing group of people that have very strong beliefs. Sounds like a religion to me!

It is my belief that there are hundreds of roads to get to where we need to be going, if Christianity suits you that is great, if you are Buddhist,Shinto, Islamic or Jewish than good for you, If you choose to follow the beliefs of atheism that is fine as well.

The only things that bothers me is when one group pushes their beliefs and values on other people. It does not matter if the group is atheist or christian, believe what you want, stop taking other groups to court and keep it to yourself!

[DeDukshyn]

We truly are "All in the same Boat!" in the "belief" department - which includes atheists.

[markpierre]

If it's 'about God', then yes. God this or that, God yes or no.
If it's about you, then it can be as clear a road to God as any.

[Ellisa]

Atheists do not believe that there is no god. They know that there is no god, because they are sure god does not exist. Also atheism is not a religion. Religion requires belief and faith. Atheism reflects a lack of belief or faith. You cannot believe in nothing.

As for the crass military friend removing a nativity scene-- well things like that are abhorrent to me. Everyone should to be allowed to muddle through with their belief or lack thereof and NOT try to force their own ideas onto others.

[LivioRazlo]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
They know that there is no god, because they are sure god does not exist.

How can atheists "know" that there is no God, yet not have irrefutable evidence to back up their claims? Also, when you stated that they are "sure" of this, I interpret this as having doubt in their claim. I "believe" in God, yet am in the same position as an atheist - I do not have irrefutable proof to back up my belief, that's where "faith" comes in. I would love nothing more than to coexist peacefully with my atheist friends on Facebook, but to me, and this is my opinion only - it seems they are just proselytizing their beliefs to anyone who'll listen. I rarely, if ever, post anything religious on Facebook - not for fear of being un-friended or led into an endless discussion - but just because my time and energy is best spent trying to create a better life for myself and for others in my social network.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Just for the fun of nitpicking, religion does not require belief and faith. Only some do. A belief in no God does not equate no religion.

Atheism is not a belief, but many people believe in it. So on a personal level, it becomes a belief.

[LivioRazlo]

Whiskey_Mystic, I only wish I had more friends like yourself in the conversation which I was involved in. I don't feel I'm totally correct on the subject, nor my statements - but I have an understanding of the world around me and believed I drew a logical conclusion.

[Whiskey_Mystic]

Many folks such as the friend that you described believe that the correct scientific position regarding God is that of course there is no such thing.

This is incorrect.

The science position regarding God can only be "Not enough data. No conclusion." Any other position is based in belief.

[Ellisa]

Livio- How can you interpret my use of the word 'sure' as indicating doubt? The two are complete opposites.

Religions require belief, and faith, that is the definition of a religion, and many also require adherence to a dogma, liturgy or purpose. Some religions do not worship a god as such but they will have an element of belief as foundation.

Atheists have no beliefs in the supernatural--- for example- god, life after death, the power of prayer, angels, divinity, miracles etc etc. A nice atheist (!) will not mock those who do believe or tear down their icons. Why should they, these things have no power for them?

Also one last thing. Because Atheism is not a religion, and has no charter or dogma it is actually not possible to generalise about atheists, but if you say that maybe there is a god I just don't know--- you are not an Atheist you are an agnostic-- someone who does not know if there is a god or not. Atheists are A- Theist which means 'against or without god'.

[johnf]

I don't see how saying that something unseen doesn't exist isn't a belief, all atheists
I have ever read or heard act as if they know, that to me is a belief, and therefore a religion
probably the simplest ever.
My favorite atheists though are the ones that yell that it is obvious that god and any form of
the afterlife obviously don't exist Jesus Christ! Why would anyone beleive in God? Goddammit!
Beleif's or not there are usually some real strong emotions wrapped up in the thought.

jf

[Johnny]

In danish it is very simple. We only have one word for trust, faith and believe, sometime also when you use the word think. So if the question is: How do you think the weather will be tomorrow, and do you believe in God, is in a way the same kind of question. And when we use the words believe/faith/trust, we do not say believe in, but believe on

I think the concept God is an answer and invented in a linear thinking from the question, where do it all come from. The logic is. things can not come from (perceived) nothing.

The concept atheist could be defined as either no God and/or no afterlife. If it is just no God then the buddhists are atheist, even they have a word for what is the Creator for everything, but not personified, as it is in the Christian Church and Muslim Church.

Edit:
My own believe/thrust/faith/think in a personified God: I do not care, because there is absolutely nothing I can do about it.

Until now, my 2 cents.

Johnny

[Abhaya]

We operate on faith. We can place our faith in any number of things. But even if we trust only the things our own eyes see and only the thoughts that pop into our own heads, this is a faith as well, How can we truly "know" anything to be 100%, sure enough to leap off a building true. We are ants in this universe. We cannot remember what we had for breakfast. But we are quick to think our selves all knowing haha. Place your faith ticket as careful as you can and hold on tight.

With out faith invested somewhere you would lack the assurance to even show someone a simple kindness. For how do we know they even really exist out side our heads. And how can we ever know what it even means to be kind or, if we even should be. Yet there is a inner knowing that tells us. Proof is in the taste of the pudding.

You have to put your faith somewhere. No way around it. So put it somewhere awesome. Seek to find the right spot and you will.

[rgray222]

I watched Reagan give a talk to a religious group, this was the gist of his talk.

He wanted to bring a group of atheist into the White House for an expansive dinner, he would meet them at the front door and escort them directly to the main dining room. After the meal had been consumed and they were sitting around drinking coffee he would ask them one question. Do you believe there is a cook in the kitchen?

Obviously it is an oversimplification but one of the many points that Reagan was attempting to make is that you don't have to see God to believe in God or a Creator. When you really stop and think about it, it is a very profound question, especially when you take the religious aspect out of the question.

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by Ellisa (here)
Atheists do not believe that there is no god. They know that there is no god, because they are sure god does not exist. Also atheism is not a religion. Religion requires belief and faith. Atheism reflects a lack of belief or faith. You cannot believe in nothing.
...

You are 100% wrong, please go back and read the second post in this thread. Atheism does require faith. It is perfectly explained in the post 2.

[Robin]

I agree and disagree with many different viewpoints on this thread. I was a staunch, in-your-face atheist for eight years, so I'll give my perspective.

When I was an atheist, I was not ignorant or close-minded, but rather the opposite; I am a scientist and humanitarian who loves to hear differing viewpoints. I grew up in a Catholic family, and when I was confirmed when I was 12 years old, I quickly dismissed it and labeled myself as an atheist. I knew the whole time I attended church that I hated what it stood for, but I was forced to go like many.

I decided that atheism made the most sense to me, because I have always held the notion that humanity should base its culture around scientific evidence. When somebody "believes" something, they often do so because of a fear of the unknown or because they were raised to think that way. For me, atheism simply made the most sense. To me it still makes a whole lot of sense.

Folks like Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, and Christopher Hitchens, who are the leading advocates and dispensers of atheism, are very wonderful people. They do not claim to "believe" in anything, but rather base a foundation of thought based on evidence. In other words, true atheists do not claim to believe in anything. Any atheist who says this probably doesn't realize the implications of what they are saying or that their words will be so heavily scrutinized by those who seek to fuss about every damn thing.

I am no longer an atheist, but I sympathize with atheists...because they are seekers of truth. Every atheist I have ever met is kind, loving, and moralistic. I have taken on Buddhist philosophy and hold the notion that everything, including humans, is a fractal of everything that was, is, and ever can be..."God" if you will.

Richard Dawkins has accumulated a rather cult following, and many do make the claim that he is no better than organized religion because of it. I can understand this point of view, however, Dawkins is an open-minded truth-seeker, and he and his "followers" are not harming anybody like many organized religions do. There is a big difference.

[Kryztian]

Atheism is not religion in that it does not have an official set of books or precepts, no houses of worship or shrines, no governing body (although a few may have sprouted up trying to claim that title.) It is, however, like religions in that it can be a general belief system that affects choices and how lives are lived.

There are also distinctions among atheists in terms of what they believe just as there in other religions. E.g., in Christianity, there are not just denominational differences (Roman Catholic, Mormon, etc.) but also just general differences within and across denominations (e.g. belief on morality of abortion, meaning of the Eucharist, dietary observances, how to celebrate Christmas, etc.)

So, some of the differences among atheists would be:

• Atheists who believe reason or common sense clearly demonstrates that a deity does not or can not exist
• Atheists who feel that the question of god's existence is irrelevant (as opposed to agnostics, who feel this question has importance, even though it can not be answered.
• Atheists who respect and admire other religions (some of them are former members and lament that they miss the rituals, the music or the social life they had there.)
• "Spiritual" atheists who feel their reverence for art, nature, music, social justice,etc. is like a religion to them.
• "Mystic" atheists, who believe that there is something paranormal out there (as opposed to "scientific" atheist, that only believe in what textbooks and large institutions tell them) although this doesn't lead them to any belief in a deity.
• "Fundamentalist" atheists - those who strongly believe that anyone who does not embrace atheism is inferior, irrational and possibly, partaking in mind control that enslaves humanity. They are the counterpart of Fundamentalist Christians, who will both tell you that there are only two ways to look at things, my way or the highway. And like fundamentalist Christians, these atheist feel that it is a moral imperative that they spread the gospel of atheism.

Sounds like your friend belongs in the last group. Best thing to do when in the presence of these people is not to bring up the subject. You are not going to be able to tell them anything that would allow them to challenge their thinking, and their probably isn't much they will say that you haven't heard already.