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Thread: Is the white light after we die a trap?

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    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Some really good information from Courtney Brown about how deceptive ETs are sending bogus information to channelers to enslave our souls in between incarnations.


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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Contributing to the fear-mongering, I see.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Contributing to the fear-mongering, I see.
    Which fear(s) are you referring to?


    Here's my take on the subject in another thread:

    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...=1#post1551598
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    Which fear(s) are you referring to?
    The fear about going into the light, but this has been talked many times here so I wish not to get into it again.

    No one is forced to do anything, if it wasn't for relative free will then there would be no point to any of this.

    We are here to choose after all. I hope we all will make wise enough choices in our lives.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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  9. Link to Post #785
    Avalon Member Pris's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    Which fear(s) are you referring to?
    The fear about going into the light, but this has been talked many times here so I wish not to get into it again.

    No one is forced to do anything, if it wasn't for relative free will then there would be no point to any of this.

    We are here to choose after all. I hope we all will make wise enough choices in our lives.

    Thank you for your thoughts.

    You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.

    Forcing someone to do something that's harmful to them is usually met with strong resistance.

    If, however, you use a more subtle approach and trick people (your victims) with lies, gently and lovingly, into doing something harmful to themselves, then there's very little -- if any -- resistance. That means they were not forced.

    This isn't about choosing to go into the light if you think it's the right thing to do. This is about asking ourselves would there even BE a light to go into if we hadn't heard about it from others first.

    I absolutely think there is no way anyone can overthink this. It appears that people weren't afraid to "go into the light" until they really starting thinking about it.

    If we have any free will to choose at all, surely, it comes from thinking about things thoroughly and questioning every possible outcome imaginable.
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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  11. Link to Post #786
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.
    We have Free Will. It's the fundamental basis of human existence. You exercise it everyday in the thoughts you have and the choices you make. It's self-evident for the fact you're not a robot.

    But at the same time it is, and must, be relative, because it has to have limitations.

    One, generally speaking, is simple Natural Laws. These regulate physical reality so that order exists, not chaos. If it's your Free Will to jump off a cliff and fly, you'll find you can't do it (because of mass, gravity, aerodynamics etc - you're not a bird!). That's Natural Law in operation.

    The second is the higher order of consciousness that governs all (spirit guides, angels, God, or whatever you believe in) which knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will. Think divine intervention.

    I used this analogy earlier in the thread:
    does an infant child stepping into a busy road - to reach for its balloon - know what's best for it? Of course not. You, the parent, obviously step in to grab the child before it walks into traffic. You (as a higher order of consciousness) are violating its Free Will here – but you must because you understand the danger, which the child does not. You know better.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Thanks for your input, Mark. That's close to what I meant.

    To be precise I mean that we are free beings and free to have our choices and I do believe in a relative free will. That is how the Creator made us to be. That's because there's so much that affects our choices and some of those things are also completely unconscious and although not everything is described in the stars, our paths are already written books with some wiggle room. It's more that the joy of the adventure matters to us and the element of surprise, because we just don't know what may lie ahead.

    I suspect there may be some branching paths we may take so are there truly poor choices or just happy little "mistakes"? That's the freedom. How we react to things. The more one has awareness and as one is able to free themselves from karmic conditions then they surely will have even more freedom. A great part of humanity doesn't have what I would describe true and total free will, but this isn't that important. People want to believe that they're in control and that's what mostly matters, what they believe in.

    I don't take this subject lightly either because if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom.

    I want to be free to be who I am and free to have my choices. I follow my gut feeling or intuition.

    That's what sovereignty is about. Everyone is supposed to make their own choices.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    You say "relative free will". Relative to what? Free will? Sounds like we either have it or we don't.
    We have Free Will. It's the fundamental basis of human existence. You exercise it everyday in the thoughts you have and the choices you make. It's self-evident for the fact you're not a robot.

    But at the same time it is, and must, be relative, because it has to have limitations.

    One, generally speaking, is simple Natural Laws. These regulate physical reality so that order exists, not chaos. If it's your Free Will to jump off a cliff and fly, you'll find you can't do it (because of mass, gravity, aerodynamics etc - you're not a bird!). That's Natural Law in operation.

    The second is the higher order of consciousness that governs all (spirit guides, angels, God, or whatever you believe in) which knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will. Think divine intervention.

    I used this analogy earlier in the thread:
    does an infant child stepping into a busy road - to reach for its balloon - know what's best for it? Of course not. You, the parent, obviously step in to grab the child before it walks into traffic. You (as a higher order of consciousness) are violating its Free Will here – but you must because you understand the danger, which the child does not. You know better.
    Appreciate that.

    I'm talking about spiritual free will which I think is limitless. The nature of the spiritual multiverse appears to be limitless.

    Back to physical reality, if a person (without wings) wants to jump off a cliff and fly, I'd say that's got more to do with a physical mental disorder which is another topic. Living in a physical body does present its dangers/limits, no doubt about it. Again, a mother saving her child from getting hit by a car is a physical example.

    I feel there is a point at which we must learn to "fly" completely on our own.

    I don't assume there to be a "higher order of consciousness that governs all" that "knows better than you, has your best interests at heart, and can and will step in, if necessary, to 'course-correct' human free will." How does one define what is "necessary"? If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    I don't take this subject lightly either because if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom.

    I want to be free to be who I am and free to have my choices. I follow my gut feeling or intuition.

    That's what sovereignty is about. Everyone is supposed to make their own choices.

    I'd say that about nails it. The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.
    Don't get too caught up in the words.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    The only thing I'd change is the word "religion". You say, "...if I would describe my religion then it would be freedom". Suggesting that freedom can be a religion is something of an oxymoron.
    Don't get too caught up in the words.

    Do you mean not to be taken too seriously?

    I like to play with words. Does that count?

    It's the study of words that's helped me to gain insight into many things... especially with all the linguistic warfare being waged around us.

    Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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  23. Link to Post #792
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    Do you mean not to be taken too seriously?
    I didn't say that.

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    I like to play with words. Does that count?
    I guess it tells something.

    Quote Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.
    I understood that it meant "linking back".

    I had to look up the word and found this explanation too:

    "Newer research shows that in the ancient and medieval world, the etymological Latin root religio was understood as an individual virtue of worship in mundane contexts; never as doctrine, practice, or actual source of knowledge. In general, religio referred to broad social obligations towards anything including family, neighbors, rulers, and even towards God."

    I have no issues with that. My only issues lie with dogmas, corruptible institutions and authority.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    Do you know that the word "religion" means to be "bound up"? So, if you are "tied up", you can't be free.
    I understood that it meant "linking back".
    This I've not heard before. What do you mean by "linking back"?

    By the way, "understanding" is an interesting word. It's one I am wary of.


    Quote Posted by Wind (here)
    My only issues lie with dogmas, corruptible institutions and authority.
    That's it? Three things?
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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  27. Link to Post #794
    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    How does one define what is "necessary"?
    An excellent question. The answer ties in with what Wind was saying re: relative free will. Mitigation (against free will) occurs or attempts to step in when we veer from our appointed path - or are in danger. In other words, something that stands in opposition to our fate.

    It's pretty complicated. Because how can we have free will and fate/destiny at the same time? All fate really is, is a plan or goal - a destination to reach by the end of our life-time. It's up to us how we reach it. That's free will. Life is about learning, about growth. We choose the journeys we take in our life to achieve that growth. If we stray too far from our appointed path "course-corrections" become necessary. Free will still plays a part, because we can resist if we choose (and take the wrong path).

    These "nudges" to stay on target can manifest as a dream, premonition, a flash of inspiration, or even just gut intuition - everyone's familiar with that. Like, "I got a feeling I want to stay in tonight", or "I don't want to go down that road" - and you find out the next day a terrible accident occurred - gut intuition told you "stay away", and you missed it. Intuition is one form of the higher self talking to you.

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.
    That's a good way to look at it. Another is we are so, so, soooo much more than what we think we are. If ALL our soul energy were to incarnate into a human body that body would explode, shatter, literally vaporize into atoms. That's sounds crazy I know, but the totality of our multi-dimensional selves is so vast and powerful that a physical human body cannot contain it. That's why we incarnate with just a fragment of it - that's what a persona is, and we have many of them, and incarnate with a different one every lifetime.

    You said on the other thread you tried reading Michael Newton but hated it. I wonder very much what it was that so turned you off. Can you elaborate? It truly is one of the best books on the subject, and the most uplifting.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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  29. Link to Post #795
    Finland Avalon Member Wind's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    This I've not heard before. What do you mean by "linking back"?
    "The word religion means religio, linking back, linking back the phenomenal person to a source. If we say it is the one life in both of us, then my separate life has been linked to the one life, religio, linked back. And this becomes symbolized in the images of religion, which represent that connecting link." ~ Joseph Campbell


    Source: Watch on Vimeo


    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    That's it? Three things?
    In life? No, but that list would be too long for this thread, I'm a Virgo after all.

    If you mean in relation religion then mainly yes. Is this getting off-topic now?
    Last edited by Wind; 13th April 2023 at 17:51.
    "When you've seen beyond yourself, then you may find, peace of mind is waiting there." ~ George Harrison

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    How does one define what is "necessary"?
    An excellent question. The answer ties in with what Wind was saying re: relative free will. Mitigation (against free will) occurs or attempts to step in when we veer from our appointed path - or are in danger. In other words, something that stands in opposition to our fate.

    It's pretty complicated. Because how can we have free will and fate/destiny at the same time? All fate really is, is a plan or goal - a destination to reach by the end of our life-time. It's up to us how we reach it. That's free will. Life is about learning, about growth. We choose the journeys we take in our life to achieve that growth. If we stray too far from our appointed path "course-corrections" become necessary. Free will still plays a part, because we can resist if we choose (and take the wrong path).

    These "nudges" to stay on target can manifest as a dream, premonition, a flash of inspiration, or even just gut intuition - everyone's familiar with that. Like, "I got a feeling I want to stay in tonight", or "I don't want to go down that road" - and you find out the next day a terrible accident occurred - gut intuition told you "stay away", and you missed it. Intuition is one form of the higher self talking to you.

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    If, like each one of us, I am all things and everything divine, then I can and will forge my own way. I don't think of it as having a "higher self". It's about remembering who I am.
    That's a good way to look at it. Another is we are so, so, soooo much more than what we think we are. If ALL our soul energy were to incarnate into a human body that body would explode, shatter, literally vaporize into atoms. That's sounds crazy I know, but the totality of our multi-dimensional selves is so vast and powerful that a physical human body cannot contain it. That's why we incarnate with just a fragment of it - that's what a persona is, and we have many of them, and incarnate with a different one every lifetime.

    You said on the other thread you tried reading Michael Newton but hated it. I wonder very much what it was that so turned you off. Can you elaborate? It truly is one of the best books on the subject, and the most uplifting.

    Interesting thoughts.

    I look at it like this. Everybody has their own sandbox. You play by yourself in your own sandbox. Someone comes along. In order for them to play with you, you have to invite them in. It's the whole "vampire" idea.

    What you are describing sounds like a clearly defined matrix. Everything's been thought out in advance. All the "rules" are in place, put there by someone else. Trick or treat?

    They can't play with you unless you invite them into your sandbox.

    You can only lose your power if you give it away.


    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Here is my idea what the white light is:

    It is part of a sort of a holodeck were the spirit is pulled in by his innate curiosity and in that process permits to experience and thus be rather in an effect position.

    Then in the on-going cinema, the spirit is kind of persuaded to be more the effect than cause and looses. (Elders or authoritative entities point out weak spots and shortcomings.)

    Subsequently he starts to feel guilt and/or assigns blame. So he gives his power away and takes less responsibility and becomes even more effect.
    "The greatest good you can do for another is not just share your riches, but to reveal to him his own."
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Michi (here)
    Here is my idea what the white light is:

    It is part of a sort of a holodeck were the spirit is pulled in by his innate curiosity and in that process permits to experience and thus be rather in an effect position.

    Then in the on-going cinema, the spirit is kind of persuaded to be more the effect than cause and looses. (Elders or authoritative entities point out weak spots and shortcomings.)

    Subsequently he starts to feel guilt and/or assigns blame. So he gives his power away and takes less responsibility and becomes even more effect.

    That's why I think that if "the white light" shows up once your body is REALLY dead (too much damage to the body so the soul can't return to it), you a) may have already implanted someone else's idea of a "good" white light into your mind prior to death so you expect/manifest it, b) are scared of it because someone else implanted the idea to be scared into your brain so you manifest the white light out of your fears, or c) are going in "green" with no clue what's going on which makes you ripe for the plucking to any kind of experience manifested out of your own mind and/or possible outside influence.

    I think NDEs are really no different from OBEs. I've been able to pre-program... steer and control my OBEs. Expectation results in manifestation.
    Last edited by Pris; 16th April 2023 at 00:28.
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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Mark (Star Mariner) (here)
    Anyone can resist the light if they want - but then you risk getting stuck here. An earthbound spirit is precisely what a ghost is. Now that is the trap, if there is one.

    Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.
    "I think, Sebastian, therefore I am."

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    Default Re: "Don't go into the light" - Discussion thread

    Quote Posted by Pris (here)
    Checking out an older comment of yours... There's a lot of (scary) presumption in your statement. For one, how do you know "precisely" what a ghost is? I see now why you feel so strongly about this subject.
    I 'presume' from a place of study, knowledge and experience, rather than rumour or speculation. Whatever the subject may be, the former must trump the latter. I'm not sure why that would be scary..

    I've been in this subject deep, for 30+ years now, and had a lot of experience in that time. I'm not a clairvoyant, but I am a sensitive. I have seen and interacted with spirits many times, many while investigating paranormal activity (I used to do that), and not all encounters were good! In fact I've had one of two terrifying experiences - once with what some people call 'shadow people', a humanoid being made of pure darkness. It was not a fleeting glimpse. The confrontation lasted some 20 seconds, fairly close up (maybe 10-20 yards), in a well lit area. After those 20 seconds I said 'nope, I'm done,' and got the hell out. I was not alone, a friend was with me and he saw it too, and went on to never speak of it again. That was an unpleasant experience to say the least, and a real wake-up call.

    That is what one might call a ghost (or at least one type of ghost). This type we would call an 'earthbound spirit'. It exuded hatred for (or rather at) us and wanted us gone. If a spirit does not transition at death, this is what can happen to it.

    Picture a bubble of air released from a rock on the bottom of the ocean. That's like a soul being released at death. The bubble naturally ascends. It's not being pushed or pulled by any outward force - buoyancy impels it because air is lighter than water. Same for a soul. Its nature is spirit not matter, so it's naturally impelled by frequency back to the threshold of its native dimension.

    Dark souls, heavy souls, do not ascend in this fashion. They have literally become too 'heavy' with the negativity and dross accumulated in life. They remain anchored here (as ghosts). Many stay in this state for a long, long time, wallowing in doubt and despair. Often religious conditioning is to blame, and a deep-seated fear of 'Divine Judgment.' That's why they reject the light. For those who led particularly evil lives, the darkness of their energy can be even thicker and denser - they do not even hover at the earth plane, but sink lower, into what many call the hellish realms. These exist. But not in the same way religion depicts. It's not an eternal state. Redemption is available to every soul, but they have to want redemption, they have to want to look to the light.

    Please do listen to this experience:


    I think part of the problem with this light trap thing is people are treating death as something unfathomable, something impenetrable, and something therefore insidious. The mind runs wild with 'I think it to be this,' or 'I imagine it to be that'. None of that is necessary. All that's necessary is to listen to the stories of those who have actually been in the light, and experienced the death experience.

    Any which way you define it that counts as evidence, not theory.

    Over the decades that evidence has piled up. There are now untold thousands of first hand accounts - loads on youtube, and many more in books. If one is very interested in life after death and what really awaits us beyond, this is the place to go, this is what you should listen to and study. Not fear-peddlers! They do not proceed from experience, first hand or even second hand. They proceed from fear, and so that is all they spread. They have succumbed to the psyop.

    The 'powers that be' down here want fear and confusion and to keep people in the dark(ness). One of their methods has been to contaminate and destabilize the 'new age' and spirituality movement. What better way to do it than by filling people's minds with fear and confusion - and that even death is no escape!

    The truth is that to die is simply to go home - to the place we truly belong, and where we all came from anyway.
    Last edited by Mark (Star Mariner); 16th April 2023 at 13:58.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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