Is the white light after we die a trap?

[Vicus]

"This is about being the "outsider". The "outsider" who questions things is always considered a threat to those living in a paradigm"

That paragraph bring some "remembers" to me...

3 years ago watched (again) the movie "Groundhog Day " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)

I saw this movie many times because the funny acid humors Bill Murray, but at some point began to anger me, not
him but how the story began to be "sanitized", I couldn't put my finger on...until last time I "saw" it !

The super sugar coat vomit at him from Andie MacDowell was unbearable, this time was for me like:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vAz3SFxHWnE

And then he is finally "assimilated", no happy end for me but back to the meat grinder wheel...

[Delight]

I just heard a discussion that is about the energy body work which we must do on earth to be prepared to face any after life experience. This was really pertinent to me because I have been working with the assumption that my basic job is to clear obfuscation and recognize my self FROM the POV of being energetic.

When material is just whirling energy, it MUST be the observer in us which chooses how everything appears. The main job here is to be whole. We can operate powerfully as "physical" through our connection to all of ourselves with our authentic energy (versus what has been overlayed). Responsibility for clearing of our energetic bodies has to be learned IMO HERE before we can graduate (or would want to graduate). How an one master deep "matter" without being "here". IMO I intend to graduate if at all possible.

I was seriously struck by my connection to his talk because of my use of imaginary machines to clear my energy. I created a "box" where I send all energy in my field that is not mine. It is an elaborate imagination that has evolved over time. What has always been INCREDIBLE but true is that when I remove the energies "not mine", I FEEL a physical response.

I absolutely 100% subscribe to how effective energy clearing by way of removing and reinstalling patterns BECOMES. Then to create 3D options of OUR choice is what happens. The world is Spiritual first then manifests. Our whole being working in harmony means we are free here there and everywhere.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=N5IOGlefFM0

[palehorse]

I once had an "encounter" with something from the other side (wasn't a dream, I was fully awake), I was around 19 years old, the formless energy that came to me has no physical appearance nor spoke any language, I am sure it was a frequency of some sorts, a vibration that I could feel, and that made me completely immovable, I could not even breath well, this happened more than once, it was very strong, first time I was going to bed and the second time I was inside the bus traveling to another city and the second time it was so hard hit that the person beside me almost freaked out.. go figure.

I had been listening to others that had been through the same experience or similar the one I had, some say that when we die we become formless, just an energy entity or something that we can't really describe with language, but not in a human shape or any resemblance of human.

The 2 events that was more important to me, happened a week or so after my cousin passed away in a car accident, we were very close, I liked him very much, he was a good friend. I will never know for sure, but the encounter I had with this entity was powerful and there was no lights of any sort, if I can describe it, was quite the opposite, the room turned pitch-dark and the entity was above me, and all I could hear and feel was that vibration and also I could see the entity in the dark (don't know how but was like that), the whole episode took a few minutes, but felt like an eternity, really timeless.
Second time inside a bus during the day light, everything became dark again and what seems to be a huge hand appeared in front of me and then the very same entity and the vibration again but this time it was amplified by 3x or 4x.. both events happened just few days apart, and after that it didn't happen again.

I also had other experiences after that, the most recent was years ago when I was driving during the night with family, I almost got into an accident falling into a river (it was that close), for whatever reason it was not my time and the other ones I was responsible, an hour or so later arrived in my destination and I saw someone outside the house of my sister-in-law, I asked her who was waiting for her and she jumped in the back seat, there was nobody in there, I saw what seems to be a woman and a children from the distance, they were there standing, but I was the only one who could see that... weird at least.

For me I don't freak out with these events anymore, they are part of my life, but what I don't understand is why these entities can take form of humans and why they also can be formless just as a vibrating energy?

In Tibetan Buddhism more specifically Bon religion they see the vital energy as formless.. I came to know that after the events happened to me, which was great because otherwise it could be all fabricated by my mind (I mean I didn't know about that), anyways who knows if it is all a program running under the hood???

I keep my mind as open as a parachute for these issues, I prefer not to pick any side, I think all we can do is tell our tales instead of trying to assume anything about death or the dead. Not a single one returned from the dead (I DON'T mean reincarnation or zombies and the likes).

Anyone with similar experiences would like to share?

[Pris]

Posted by Vicus (here)
"This is about being the "outsider". The "outsider" who questions things is always considered a threat to those living in a paradigm"

That paragraph bring some "remembers" to me...

3 years ago watched (again) the movie "Groundhog Day " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)

I saw this movie many times because the funny acid humors Bill Murray, but at some point began to anger me, not
him but how the story began to be "sanitized", I couldn't put my finger on...until last time I "saw" it !

The super sugar coat vomit at him from Andie MacDowell was unbearable, this time was for me like:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=vAz3SFxHWnE

And then he is finally "assimilated", no happy end for me but back to the meat grinder wheel...

Meat grinder, yes... very interesting. I hadn't really thought much about that movie, Groundhog Day, but now that you brought it up... great perspective.

I found a few extra tidbits.

Did Bill Murray's character "Phil" relive that day for 30 to 40 years? Yikes.

Buddhists interpreted Phil's experience as a journey of "selflessness and rebirth", while Catholics looked on it as a stay in Purgatory where the only way out is to undergo "Purification to achieve Holiness". That all sounds rather righteous, imposed... Nope, I'm not feeling it.


3 Things About "Groundhog Day" (1993) You Never Realized

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QwGLBhj43NY

Or, did Phil sign his soul over to the Devil? Phil was, literally, tortured for decades to change who he was. He was manipulated over a long period of time and eventually surrendered himself. He finally "escapes" Purgatory as a "nice guy" only to start his saccharine-sweet life with his saccharine-sweet girlfriend in Hell. Yes, I'd say this interpretation feels more accurate.


How Phil Conners Really Escaped Groundhog Day

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tZGBW8GGHC8

I thought Phil's so-called "character flaws" were precisely what made him interesting and unique. He was like a wild horse and the Devil decided to reign him in (with popularity, fame etc.) and break him.


This is Phil before he's destroyed:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=pwY0smQocXk

Another scenario I'm reminded of is Gilligan's Island. The island is Hell and nobody can leave. I always thought how endearing the castaways were with all their "flaws" and if that's supposed to be the Gold Standard for the "Seven Deadly Sins", whoever decided to incarcerate them on that island for their so-called "sins" was a real A-hole. And, IF the Devil really was Gilligan, then that makes the whole thing an even more royal mind-screw.


Link to article, Gilligan’s Island and the Seven Deadly Sins:

https://11thstepbootcamp.com/blog/gi...n-deadly-sins/

[palehorse]

Posted by minkton (here)
Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?

[mountain_jim]

Posted by palehorse (here)

Posted by minkton (here)
Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?

Because (and based on my own extensive personal experimental research), temporary ego death and an experience of (return to) The One, which (arguably) each soul is an individuated unit of/from, is the primary result and value of the most successful entheogen experiences.

In my (experienced) opinion.

These 60's researchers had these life-changing experiences and studied various ancient texts to find preexisting maps for exploring this consciousness terrain they were discovering.

Many books and much research exists to suggest (and sometimes prove) that various plants containing consciousness-altering substances were involved in the inner circles of many of the world's spiritual practices and rituals.

[palehorse]

Posted by mountain_jim (here)

Posted by palehorse (here)

Posted by minkton (here)
Have a read of the tibetan book of the dead.

I don't know anything else that goes through in more detail than the scriptures that make up the Tibetan book of the dead (also try Egyptian book of the dead). There is another one "Secret doctrines of the tibetan book of the dead" <<<------ see the word "doctrines" that will cover some points about the white light trap...

Another one that went to far out is: "THE PSYCHEDELIC EXPERIENCE - A manual based on THE TIBETAN BOOK OF THE DEAD by Timothy Leary, Ralph Metzner & Richard Alpert" wrote in the 60's or before that, not sure. The book was probably written under the influence of mescaline, LSD and shrooms for the information I have, and it is basically about the ego death or loss of personality which we do lose at the end of this journey. Kind of the bible for the hippie movement in the 60's, I would not spend much time on it anyway.

Why would Leary and his colleagues use such serious material as a framework for psychedelic experiences?

Because (and based on my own extensive personal experimental research), temporary ego death and an experience of (return to) The One, which (arguably) each soul is an individuated unit of/from, is the primary result and value of the most successful entheogen experiences.

In my (experienced) opinion.

These 60's researchers had these life-changing experiences and studied various ancient texts to find preexisting maps for exploring this consciousness terrain they were discovering.

Many books and much research exists to suggest (and sometimes prove) that various plants containing consciousness-altering substances were involved in the inner circles of many of the world's spiritual practices and rituals.

Thanks for your reply Jim. If you could expand a bit in your experiences, would be nice to know how you faced it.

Yes we get high, Terrence had experiences with all sort of entheogenic plants in South America, Hawaii and elsewhere, I do know the relation, I drunk ayahuasca myself a few times during a shamanic ritual in Brazil (Terrence's tapes inspired me to do it), I never imagined anything in terms of bardo and passing away and going into other post-death states of mind. But of course that may depends on each individual and the current state of mind when having the experience or both.. for instance I know people that drunk caapi with me in the same ritual and their experiences was diverse, for example one lady she was kind of religious person (Christian) and she had an Eureka moment with virgin Mary (I don't judge, I just listened her experience, it may be true or not who knows), 2 other guys they met aliens spaceship, they have basically the same experience, I went to the stars and was floating in there for a while (lost feeling) in one occasion, another time I was speaking with animals like wild cat, leopard, even birds, I could talk with them all and they talk back to me, my friend in an isolated situation had the same experience, he could speaks with monkeys,.. that's why the question, I never understood that book well, for what I had talk to others the day of my experiences, I can't remember anyone commenting about death. But I imagine we can project any sort of experience when using entheogenic plants just focusing/pursuing the outcome, make sense.

sorry to go off-topic here.

[mountain_jim]

I understand your request but trying to reduce/transfer these experiences into language is not something I feel comfortable or capable of doing - Terrence was unusually adept at that I will say - and I met him when attending a 1194 seminar of his on Maui and he signed several of his books for me.

I also attended talks by Tim Leary and Baba Ram Dass back in the day....

I sum it like this: You have to die to be reborn - and the death/rebirth archetype experienced by a tenacious ego personality letting it all go is a pathway....

Life's ego-testing can also accomplish this (in extreme circumstances) with a longer lasting change than the typical entheogen-induced version, I once found out.

That sounds religious and they do use this archetype but no religious beliefs are required - the principal is beyond beliefs or belief-systems in my experience.

[Pris]

.
.
I've found my ego -- that which is uniquely me -- to be a powerful shield around my soul. It is the fundamental aspect of the entirety of who I am (my memories, my sense of self) and it comes through for me while OBEing. This idea of having to shed the ego at any time let alone at death -- like it is something to be ashamed of, holds "you" back somehow, and needs to be cast off in order to "rise" to the "next level" -- sounds very cultish, fear-centric, and remarkably disempowering. It makes no sense to me. If anything, keeping the ego as part of our growth as spiritual beings makes the most sense to me. Anything else is submissive self-destruction.

Never forget.

[mountain_jim]

Well since our takes rely on an agreed definition of ego, which may be different, this illustrates my point about why I prefer not to even use words to describe these states.

I do think I understand your point - and would say there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones.

I just end up in the weeds of verbal debate sooner or later. I started out just trying to explain why the Books of the Dead were found to be a worthwhile map for the entheogen experiencers based on my experience.

Obviously my ego-self did not die during these transformations - rather a symbolic release and merge with that outside of one's usual limited program-controlled self, then a return to the personality with new understandings of aspects of Reality not formerly known/understood, and less limiting belief/programming.

This is my last post about this as my words are inadequate and imprecise, sorry to say.

[Pris]

.

Posted by mountain_jim (here)
Well since our takes rely on an agreed definition of ego, which may be different, this illustrates my point about why I prefer not to even use words to describe these states.

I do think I understand your point - and would say there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones.

I just end up in the weeds of verbal debate sooner or later. I started out just trying to explain why the Books of the Dead were found to be a worthwhile map for the entheogen experiencers based on my experience.

Obviously my ego-self did not die during these transformations - rather a symbolic release and merge with that outside of one's usual limited program-controlled self, then a return to the personality with new understandings of aspects of Reality not formerly known/understood, and less limiting belief/programming.

This is my last post about this as my words are inadequate and imprecise, sorry to say.

I think you are better with words than you give yourself credit for. I agree, it's very difficult to express ourselves precisely with words which is why I also like to use imagery, art, poetry, music etc. It's all helpful. Communication beyond the comprehension of "love" gets very complicated.

I like to comprehend things. It's a game I like to play. Words are tricky. For example, having learned the linguistics of what "understand" means, I won't ever stand under anyone or anything.

You say, "...there is not much point to living if the growth from this experience is not preserved and leveraged through potential future ones." Right... I say there is no point to any of it if we don't keep it. As for the "future", whatever that is and however we choose to find ourselves whether physically manifest or not, I think that's entirely up to the individual to decide.

It's interesting that you mention limitation with regard to our "program-controlled self". I think the individual personality -- always learning and growing -- coupled with powerful (love-based) intention is the driver of it all and that there really are no limits to the programs we "write" for ourselves -- in this realm and beyond. I've done it myself -- preprogrammed OBEs. My epiphanies come from all directions, "awake" or "asleep". "Imagination knows no bounds." Define "reality"? Thoughts are things, dreams are reality. It's all subjective from an individual's standpoint and it needs to be.

That's why there's no need for us to agree on anything at all. Although, I do find it extraordinarily fun when I recognize myself in others and they recognize themselves in me. And, that can't happen if there's no interaction.



. . . . ..This is me prepping myself before having an OBE.