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Thread: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Interesting article here from a Human Rights org in Ukraine:

    Quote Russian LifeNews inadvertently told the truth about downed Malaysian airline
    18.07.14 | Halya Coynash

    Since Russian pro-Kremlin media are already suggesting that Ukraine brought down the Malaysian airliner, the following is a reminder of the first, damning, reports which came from the Kremlin-backed militants and Russian media, including the LifeNews TV channel. The latter’s report came shortly before it became clear that the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 had come down near the border between Ukraine and Russia, killing all 298 passengers and crew.

    LifeNews reported that “Insurgents have reported a downed AN-26 [military transport plane] in the east of Ukraine. They say that at around 17.30 according to local time the plane was flying over the city of Torez in the Donetsk oblast.”

    The video shows what is almost certainly the Malaysian plane burning.

    Shortly before this, a post on the social media website VKontakte, purportedly from the militant leader, Strelkov [Igor Girkin] stated that “

    17.07.2014 17.50

    “In the vicinity of Torez we just downed an AN-26 plane, it’s lying somewhere behind the Progress Mine.

    We warned them – don’t fly “in our sky”

    The same image as in the LifeNews broadcast is given with the words that no residential area was touched or civilians hurt.

    This post has now been removed, and Strelkov’s people are claiming it’s a fake.

    Alexander Borodai, ‘prime minister’ of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic [DPR] has claimed that the plane was downed by the Ukrainian military and this appears to be the version which the Russian media are now assiduously pushing.

    Even if the post really was a fake, the fact remains that LifeNews and a number of other pro-Kremlin media which have consistently demonstrated close coordination with the militants showed video footage of the crash, citing militants as saying that they had felled a military plane.

    On Thursday evening, Valentin Nalyvaichenko, head of the SBU [Ukraine’s Security Service] made public two intercepted calls which the SBU say show that the plane was downed by pro-Russian Cossack militants. The first conversation is seemingly between Igor Bezler, a military commander of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic and Vasyl Geranin, the second between two militants. The first reports that “we have just downed a plane”, and that they’re going to the scene to find the pilots and take photos. The second is after one of the militants has discovered that they shot down a civilian plane.

    The SBU has put out a recording with subtitles.

    “We don’t have the equipment”

    Borodai’s claim that the militants did not have the capacity to fell a plane at 10 kilometres is false. The DNP have brought down a number of military transport planes by now with surface to air missiles, and the militants themselves stated on June 29 that they would “protect the sky over Donetsk with Buk missile systems” A pro-Kremlin political analyst stated back on July 13 that the militants were in possession of Buk surface to air missiles and were ready to use them. The Buk missiles in the picture were photographed near Snizhne in the Donetsk oblast. They are highly sophisticated equipment which you won't find in a hardware shop, and which require very serious training to operate.

    A US official has confirmed that the plane was shot down. “One radar system saw a surface-to-air missile system turn on and track an aircraft right before the plane went down Thursday, according to the official. A second system saw a heat signature at the time the airliner was hit, the official said. The United States is analyzing the trajectory of the missile to try to learn where the attack came from.”

    Video footage was reported early on Thursday which appeared to prove that GRAD rockets were being fired from Russian territory. There has also been talk this evening that the Malaysian airline could have been shot down from within Russia. This does not necessarily clash with the reports from the militants themselves who could have simply wanted to ‘boast’ of another such ‘victory’, or could conceivably have tried to provide a cover for use of missiles from Russia whatever the target.

    The Russian media are now going flat out to try to prove that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane, while incredibly leaving intact previous reports where the militants are boasting of their new ‘hit’.

    German journalist Boris Reitschuster reports that Russia Today has deleted the incriminating report, while the German version of Voice of Russia have not. He may be right that English is being prioritized, with even the LifeNews Russian original item still on the site. The video footage in the latter (which the screenshot above is from) was, however, removed around midnight.

    An English report on RIA Novosti suggests that the Ukrainian military were to blame. Quoting an unnamed “expert source”, it writes that “A Ukrainian army battalion of Buk air defence systems was deployed near the city of Donetsk a day before the crash of a Malaysian passenger plane on Thursday, making the downing of the aircraft by one of the missiles highly probable”. The militants are not flying aircraft and there would therefore have been no reason for the Ukrainian military to be using a surface to air missile system. It is the militants who have already shot down a number of Ukrainian military transport planes.

    An especially manipulative item from the same RIA Novosti agency in Russian is entitled “Merkel demands an independent investigation of the plane crash in Donetsk”. The text repeats three times that German Chancellor Angela Merkel has said that “Ukraine can expect a new tragic spiral of conflict if the presumed causes of the air disaster are confirmed”. It then goes on to suggest that this could be a “repetition of the 2001 tragedy” (when the Ukrainian military did bring down a plane from Novosibirsk to Tel Aviv). The report ends by stating that the militants do not have the appropriate weapons, with the assertion by Alexander Borodai subjected to no scrutiny or question.

    It has been confirmed that the plane was shot down. It is known who had used surface to air missiles to bring down Ukrainian military aircraft and who boasted of having done the same on early Thursday evening. Removal of incriminating videos and manipulative media coverage cannot erase that.

    298 people were killed on Thursday evening, among them eighty children. Those who play with human life for dubious geopolitical gain must be stopped.
    http://khpg.org.ua/en/index.php?id=1405634995
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    An official communicazione from Malaysian Airlines gives the latest update on the flight and passenger list:

    Quote Friday, July 18, 01:30 PM GMT +0800 Media Statement 3 : MH17 Incident

    Media Statement 3 : MH17 Incident

    The B777-200 aircraft bearing registration no. 9M-MRD that operated MH17 on 17 July, 2014 had a clean maintenance record. The aircraft’s last maintenance check was on 11 July 2014. The next check was due on 27 Aug 2014. The maintenance was conducted at Malaysia Airlines’ hangar at KLIA. The aircraft had a clean bill of health.

    The aircraft was manufactured in July 1997, and so had 17 years in service.

    The aircraft had recorded 75322 hours with a total of 11434 cycles.

    All communication system on the aircraft were functioning normally.

    The B777-200 uses the Rolls-Royce Trent-800 engine and has a 282 seat capacity.

    -end-
    Friday, July 18, 07:30 AM GMT +0800 Media Statement 2 : MH17 Incident

    Media Statement 2 : MH17 Incident

    With immediate effect, all European flights operated by Malaysia Airlines will be taking alternative routes avoiding the usual route.

    Malaysia Airlines flight MH17, which was on a scheduled flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur went down in eastern Ukraine. Malaysia Airlines confirms that the aircraft did not make a distress call.

    The usual flight route was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation. International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

    As opposed to the earlier statement, the flight was carrying a total number of 298 people – comprising 283 passengers including three infants of various nationalities and 15 crew of Malaysian nationality. Some of the nationalities of the passengers are yet to be determined.

    List of number of passengers and crew according to nationality are as follows:-

    Nationality


    Total

    Netherlands


    154

    Malaysia


    43 (including 15 crew & 2 infants)

    Australia


    27

    Indonesia


    12 (including 1 infant)

    United Kingdom


    9

    Germany


    4

    Belgium


    4

    Philippines


    3

    Canada


    1

    Unverified


    41

    Total


    298



    Malaysia Airlines is in the process of notifying the next-of-kin of the passengers and crew.

    Our focus now is to work with the emergency responders and authorities and mobilize its full support to provide all possible care to the next-of-kin. Malaysia Airlines is deploying its “Go Team” to Amsterdam with a group of caregivers and volunteers to assist the family members of the passengers.

    Our thoughts and prayers are with all affected passengers and crew and their family members.

    The airline will provide regular updates on the situation.

    Families of passengers and crew may contact +603 7884 1234 (Malaysia) or +31703487770(Netherlands).

    For media queries, kindly contact +603 8777 5698/ +603 8787 1276.

    Please also log on to www.malaysiaairlines.com for updates.

    -end-
    This is on their "page 2" of this report:

    Quote Friday, July 18, 04:15 AM GMT +0800 Statement by Prime Minister Najib Razak: Malaysian Airlines flight 17

    Yesterday evening, I was informed of the terrible and deeply shocking news that a Malaysia Airlines jet went down in eastern Ukraine.

    Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the jet was Malaysia Airlines flight 17, which was on a scheduled flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur.

    The flight departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm, local time. It was scheduled to arrive in Kuala Lumpur at 6.10 am, local, Malaysian time.

    The aircraft was a Boeing 777-200.

    The aircraft’s flight route was declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation.

    And International Air Transportation Association has stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions.

    Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the aircraft did not make a distress call.

    The flight was carrying a total number of 295 people – comprising 280 passengers and 15 crew members.

    Malaysia Airlines is in the process of notifying the next-of-kin of the passengers and crew. All possible care will be provided to the next-of-kin.

    The Government of Malaysia is dispatching a special flight to Kiev, carrying a Special Malaysia Disaster Assistance and Rescue Team, as well as a medical team.

    According to information provided by Kiev Air Traffic Control, the location of the plane’s emergency locator beacon is 48 degrees 7 minutes and 23 seconds North; and 38 degrees 31 minutes and 33 seconds East.


    The Ukrainian authorities believe that the plane was shot down.

    At this early stage, however, Malaysia is unable to verify the cause of this tragedy.

    But we must – and we will – find out precisely what happened to this flight.

    No stone can be left unturned.

    If it transpires that the plane was indeed shot down, we insist that the perpetrators must swiftly be brought to justice.

    Emergency operations centres have been established. In the last few hours, Malaysian officials have been in constant contact with their counterparts in Ukraine and elsewhere.

    And I will be speaking to a number of world leaders over the coming hours.

    I have had several conversations with the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

    I have also spoken to the President of Ukraine. He has pledged that there will be a full, thorough and independent investigation, and Malaysian officials will be invited to take part.

    The Ukrainian president also confirmed that his government will negotiate with rebels in the east of the country, in order to establish a humanitarian corridor to the crash site.

    Just now, I received a call from President Obama.

    He and I both agreed that the investigation must not be hindered in anyway.

    An international team must have full access to the crash site.

    And no one should interfere with the area, or move any debris, including the black box.



    This is a tragic day, in what has already been a tragic year, for Malaysia.

    As we work to understand what happened, our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of those onboard the flight.

    I cannot imagine what they must be going through at this painful time.

    The flight’s passengers and crew came from many different countries.

    But today, regardless of nationality, we are all united in grief.

    -end-
    Friday, July 18, 12:30 AM GMT +0800 Media Statement 1: MH17 Incident

    Media Statement 1: MH17 Incident

    Malaysia Airlines confirms it received notification from Ukrainian ATC that it had lost contact with flight MH17 at 1415 (GMT) at 30km from Tamak waypoint, approximately 50km from the Russia-Ukraine border.

    Flight MH17 operated on a Boeing 777 departed Amsterdam at 12.15pm (Amsterdam local time) and was estimated to arrive at Kuala Lumpur International Airport at 6.10 am (Malaysia local time) the next day.

    The flight was carrying 280 passengers and 15 crew onboard.

    More details to follow.

    -end-
    http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html
    Last edited by MorningSong; 18th July 2014 at 11:28.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I have yet to see proof of the crash. I have seen 3 videos of the explosion but nobody actually caught the jet crashing. (right next to a road I might add). Just saying is all. Im sure it did indeed crash. Just wanted to put this out there.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Ukraine Separatists Have Shot Down Multiple Aircraft Over The Past Month

    A Boeing 777 Malaysian airlines plane has reportedly been shot down along the Russian-Ukrainian border, according to an official from Ukraine's Ministry of the Interior.
    The border is currently a war zone with sustained fighting between the Ukrainian government and pro-Russian separatist rebels. And within the past month, the separatists have brought down a number of Ukrainian military aircraft.

    The cause of the crash isn't conclusively known at the moment. Pro-Russian separatists may have nothing to do with it. But they have been successful in destroying aircraft in recent months of the conflict.

    Armed with Man-Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS), the separatists have been taking down Ukrainian military aircraft since the beginning of June. On June 13, separatists shot down a Ukrainian transport plane that had been carrying 40 paratroopers and nine crew members.

    At least 10 other Ukrainian aircraft — all of them significantly lower-flying than a Boeing 777 — have been shot down since the rebels started using MANPADS according to a count kept by military aviation expert David Cenciotti, including five Mi-24 Hinds, two Mi-8 helicopters, one An-2, one An-30, and the Ukrainian transport plane.

    Pro-Russian rebels claimed responsibility for shooting down two additional Ukrainian Su-25 fighters on Wednesday. The Ukrainian Defense Ministry reported that one of the jets was hit by a portable surface-to-air missile.

    According to an adviser to the Ukraine Interior Minister, the Malaysia plane was shot down by a Buk ground-to-air missile system. These systems require additional training to use and are launched from trucks. The AP saw a launch system resembling Buk missiles in the pro-Russian held Ukrainian town of Snizhne early Thursday.

    The pro-Moscow separatists have denied responsibility for shooting down the Malaysian flight, according to The Interpreter.



    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/ukrai...#ixzz37ooZeFUF
    Last edited by Roisin; 18th July 2014 at 11:36.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    NOW THIS IS INTERESTING!


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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Jim Stone:

    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/

    Shoot down now confirmed and therefore top posted

    Gaza carnage has disappeared from the news over this shoot down, is this a secondary motive?
    Judging from what is happening now, I am going to un officially call it - Flight 370 has been disposed of, Russia will be blackballed, and ISRAEL DID IT ALL, because under the waves generated by this shoot down story The ground invasion of Gaza has started and there is not a PEEP in the MSM about it. how convenient!

    Heads up: Flightradar24.com which is the defining site for flight history says MH17 was canceled and never departed, with no departure time listed. Hmmm . . . . . Good cover for flight 370? Not enough substance to make a call on that one, but this is something to make note of at least. The site is down now, possibly overwhelmed? That is OK, I got a photograph of this.

    And keep in mind that it is all in a blender now, with the necessary lies being told to bury this connection. Someone already has a Wiki up with the entire story including departure time, but no legitimate travel site site I came across in two hours searching actually listed it.

    MORE IN THE LINK....

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Identical flight 370 in Tel Aviv?

    http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/ide...flight370.html

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?


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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?


    Russian/Putin apologists here really need the following reminder. It's wrong--wrong when Russia is behind the act, and wrong if the US does it… But what's a million times more wrong is that a jumbo civilian commercial jet went down resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives!


    Your research should reflect that major concern .... even at the expense of having to forfeit your own prevailing Pro-Putin sentiments should credible and substantiated evidence prove that the fault lies on the Russian side of this tragic incident.
    Last edited by Roisin; 18th July 2014 at 11:56.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I see no proof of who shot it down. Right now, I am reading everything I can before I reach a conclusion.


    Rosin, show me where I say I am pro-putin please. You have jumped to that conclusion yourself. Please do not put words into my mouth. Not sure how you came up with that to be honest. Care to explain? Cheers.
    Last edited by EYES WIDE OPEN; 18th July 2014 at 12:01.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Joseph Farrell's opinions....
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Did Ukraine Fabricate Evidence to Frame Russia For MH17 Shoot Down?

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/video-di...hoot-down.html

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    The most interesting thing was the tweets from the air traffic control. I saw those before they were taken down.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I am listening and looking as deeply as perception will allow, so I am not sure where the shout about Putin/Russian apologists is coming from. We are dealing with something that was "created" to take us into chaos. Overlaid, and overplayed scenarios.

    Again the "same ol' same ol'" - Problem, Reaction, Solution - always with the divide and conquer axiom in their mind.

    What I have been endeavoring to do myself on all fronts, is to accept that all versions are reality are "someones". In other words from a particular point of view anything can be made to appear truthful or real. So to a Russian patriot who is immersed in his own particular paradigm things are going to look different than from my world view or yours. I think we can easily grok this idea. So instead of making wrong include that view in yours.. all of them are valid and all of them provide clues for a discerning mind.

    I have been deep viewing this scene.. nothing is as it appears, again! Actually my very first read was that Putin was a target, though my logical mind couldn't calculate that. Second strong read was that the plane was remote hijacked and was meant to be a decoy or cover.. Third read was that there were not as many people on the plane as the media is saying. Fourth read was that a person will come forward. And as Jacko said, THIS ISN'T GOING TO PLAY OUT AS PLANNED. (I am getting confirmation from other friends that are "seeing' the scene.)

    This includes the obvious diversion of attention from the Gaza stip-ping.

    Roisin, I feel that for a high empath as yourself the scene of dead people and suffering will likely cause a heightened emotional state of suffering, my first contact with the scene yesterday was just such.. lots of nausea and feelings of a loss of control.

    Today.. a lot of that energy has been cleared.

    NOW LET THE TRUTH COME TO LIGHT.


    Quote Posted by Roisin (here)
    Russian/Putin apologists here really need the following reminder. It's wrong--wrong when Russia is behind the act, and wrong if the US does it… But what's a million times more wrong is that a jumbo civilian commercial jet went down resulting in the loss of hundreds of lives!

    Your research should reflect that major concern .... even at the expense of having to forfeit your own prevailing Pro-Putin sentiments should credible and substantiated evidence prove that the fault lies on the Russian side of this tragic incident.
    Last edited by Christine; 18th July 2014 at 13:51.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    I'd like to let Avalon know that the plane probably did go down with no survivors. My mother in-law's neighbor lost a family member that was on it. Ironically, she also lost 2 family members on the missing Malaysian Flight.

    I guess something else may of happened other than being shot down (same result for the passengers though), but I'm not feeling it.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Thanks Christine. I'm still going to stick by what I said though about those who are pro-Russian/Putin here and I said it because I think it's true and I'm still think it's true. This is a forum where we are permitted to give our viewpoints even if it goes against the prevailing one. In my view, several alternative news sources have been consistently pro-Putin over the course of the past few years. And in the case of this downed airliner, I'm once again seeing this sentiment throughout the reporting of yesterday's incident at those news sites and blogs regardless that there's much more information that strongly suggests that the fault may ultimately lie with Putin's Separatists in the case of this plane. IMHO, the vast majority of participants here are quoting those same pro-Putin sources regardless of the glaring errors in the form of sig. omissions, and blatant slanting toward their Pro-Putin stance in those reports of that incident that they are posting here. I feel that that justifies my very real concern that we are not seeing anything remotely close to what is termed "Fair and Balanced" reporting on this incident in this thread.

    Obviously, I'm not going to gain any popularity votes by pointing this out but I'm just giving my own opinion on this. If, later on, I find out that I was wrong about my opinion on this, I will be the first one to admit that and own up to it. But at this present time, I have expressed where I'm at with this now and my disappointment that most here in this thread are only focusing on one side of this issue having to do with the demise of this airliner.
    Last edited by Roisin; 18th July 2014 at 13:15.

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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Fair and balanced....(from Fox News)

    Smoking gun? Intercepted calls point finger at Russian separatists in jet downing

    yet, for some reason, I'm just not feelin it.....

    Regardless, this is who ultimately pulled the trigger (the russian separatists), hell, they already decided this before any one actually reached the crash site.....
    Last edited by SilentFeathers; 18th July 2014 at 13:31.
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    Rosin, thanks for the post but I am still waiting for your reason as to why you think I am pro-putin.

    I am English. Why on earth would I be pro-Putin!?

    To be honest, its more likely you would be anti-putin as you are america.
    To be clear, I am NOT suggesting you are one thing or another.

    I don't really care either way to be honest. I just want the truth like the rest of us.

    I am just a bit miffed you think I am pro-putin and that you keep repeating it as Fact.
    Let me put you straight.

    I am neither one side or the other.

    There you go.
    You have no excuse now.
    If you want to ignore my statement - go for it. If you do, to me that looks like your bias getting in the way of critical thinking.

    As I said, I am putting the links on here as I come across them.
    You seem to have ignored that fact despite me explaining it already.

    We all have our own viewpoints but when somebody says something about me personally that is plain incorrect then I am not going to let it go past without saying anything.

    Rosin, can you post some links yourself of what you consider unbiased fair reporting please. I look forward to reading them.

    Now lets just leave it there.

    Back onto the much more important topic:

    Quote http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/07...ecurity-alert/


    ECIPS ISSUES GLOBAL SECURITY ALERT

    he European Centre for Information Policy and Security (ECIPS) issued an International SAT (Security Tension Alert) today. This comes after the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 were shot down in Ukraine by extremist.
    The President of the ECIPS, Mr. Ricardo Baretzky said that this incident could be the tipping point and could very easily seen as a hostile position against the EU. He also emphasized that this could result into many complications in aiding the growing tension between the EU and Russia.
    ECIPS also called for the Malaysia Airlines to take responsibility since they were aware of the “Civilian Risks” in flying over a Internationally recognized warzone, and, that the Malaysia Airlines should be accountable for changing flight rout in order to save costs.
    The President of ECIPS urged the European Union to step in and called for a stronger EU and warned that waiting to put out the fire before the house is burned down, could have many repercussions with stability on EU borders in the very near future and impair economical stability in certain regions.
    The contravertional intelligence indicates that either way, the Boeing 777 were illegally shot down causing the death of 298 people and the crew. “This is not a act of war but an act of Terror” the President of ECIPS said. ” We should seriously look at the way we phrase wording classify terrorism since this incident is not an act of war but rather an act of Terror “.
    ECIPS said that it is following the situation very closely and offered to step in for conflict negations should the tensions not be eased. The long term outlook of this incident could permanently harm the international relations from the west with Russia.
    For World News by Kim Jones correspondence for the Blue House
    Last edited by EYES WIDE OPEN; 18th July 2014 at 13:38.

  27. Link to Post #179
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?

    From the same Fox News article, a link to remind us that the US shot down a passenger plane from Iran killing 290 people, just to keep the record straight:

    https://learni.st/users/580/boards/2...mpaign=society

    Quote Posted by SilentFeathers (here)
    Fair and balanced....(from Fox News)

    Smoking gun? Intercepted calls point finger at Russian separatists in jet downing

    yet, for some reason, I'm just not feelin it.....

    Regardless, this is who ultimately pulled the trigger (the russian separatists), hell, they already decided this before any one actually reached the crash site.....

  28. Link to Post #180
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    Default Re: Malaysian Plane MH17 shot down with over 295 on board. But by who?


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