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Thread: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    • Have I taken just a little care with my post to see if it reads well, is relevant, and makes sense? (Always read it again AFTER you've posted it. All posts are easy to edit and amend any time later.)
    How to Edit/Update your Post
    [more tips]





    Last edited by RunningDeer; 11th September 2020 at 21:05.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Another1 (here)

    [...]

    I have noticed, almost without exception:
    • - the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
    • In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
    • - the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
    • In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise
    I am going to print that out, laminate it and put it up by my computer ...

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    A big bump for what Bob quoted.....it is SO true & a good yardstick for us all to use in our interactions here on Avalon!

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Bob (here)
    Quote Posted by Another1 (here)

    [...]

    I have noticed, almost without exception:
    • - the people who seek peace and believe it's possible are usually soft spoken, polite and don't really push much. They offer.
    • In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is a signal
    • - the people looking forward to it all falling apart are highly vocal, well versed in the art of subtle ridicule. They tell you what will be.
    • In my opinion as a fellow traveler, this is noise
    I am going to print that out, laminate it and put it up by my computer ...
    I'm looking forward to "new beginnings" I guess I'd call it, but not suffering and turmoil. Anyone who looks forward to suffering and turmoil has something wrong with them - and if I had my way - there wouldn't be any of them. Maybe I'm just an impatient murderer, but I can't help how mad it makes me =/

    I can find peace and happiness sometimes, but true happiness won't ever exist in my mind while other people continue to suffer.

    To me it just feels like we're in the midst of a mess! And yes... there's Garbage everywhere.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Hello, Everyone.

    I figured I'd offer the following simple points here, though the topic isn't quite so much about signal-to-noise. But it is about standards.

    My thoughts were really focused by looking at what's happening in so many places elsewhere on the net. Social media has become increasingly barbaric, a kind of dog-eat-dog jungle where the freedom of anonymity seems to unleash the shadow in many people.

    Here's a screenshot of a discussion on the Voat forum, where Qanon followers have migrated after being banned from Reddit (for "posted threats and incitement of violence").

    Caveats:
    1. I didn't take the screenshot. I actually found it on Reddit.
    2. I won't embed it here. It's too repugnant. Read it if your eyebrows are well-pinned to your forehead.
      https://imgur.com/a/3CVgvp9#95DmLZy
    It makes every single member we have look like a saint.

    My point: what you see there is now the internet norm. Toxic mudfights like that are easy to find, everywhere. Look at the comments on any politically-oriented (or otherwise controversial) YouTube video.

    We really are different here. Our standards are miles higher than anyone else's. New members in their application forms tell us this almost every day.

    So this post is to acknowledge that, thank everyone reading this who really knows and understands that, and make the following reminders:
    • Please consciously preserve the high standards that we're all rightly proud of.
    • Please always allow other viewpoints and respect them if they're well-stated. Simply put: reply to others the way you'd like to be replied to yourself.
    • Please do NOT NOT NOT make 'jokes' that one might personally think are funny on the spur of the moment, but are likely to be upsetting or hurtful to others. This is a big problem sometimes.
    • Please always be mindful of the effect that you WANT to make when posting. Do you want to actually hurt someone? Score points? Be admired? Be understood? It matters.
    ***

    Like one of the ancient Atlantean refugees, I still have a memory of early 2010 when the entire forum was closed, and then re-opened in a different format with all members being asked to re-apply. The community, every bit as large and active as this one, had been ripped in half — and sunk under the waves — by an epic, highly-charged disagreement that focused on just one major thread and then sucked in everyone. (The conflict was over metaphysical issues, not political. But similar emotions were invoked, including the almost uncontrollable strongly felt need to defend territory and attack others, sometimes way too strongly.)

    Maybe a tiny handful of current members recall all this, as well. But for everyone else, it's a kind of misty historical legend. And some have no knowledge about it whatsoever.

    But we DO have a precedent for cataclysm. It's happened before.

    We're living in important and emotional times. Many things feel that they matter, a great deal, to many people — often rightly, too. But, as Richard Dolan counsels at the end of all his weekly radio broadcasts, be kind to one another. No matter how irritating another member here might seem when they've just countered or disagreed with one of your well-crafted, deeply-felt posts — if that person was literally your real-world neighbor, living in the next-door house, you'd probably like them very a great deal.

    We're all good people here.


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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Good Bill, point taken. But I would like to know what are the forum policies regarding trolling and blatantly lying and baiting. It seems sometimes to me that trolling and lying is diregarded for some members while others are readily admonished. This has become definitly unclear to me.

    Plus, baiting and lying does not seem to be a good omen for the forum.

    I personnally think that intentional lies on posts have to be corrected publically, mostly when they damage another member in any way, including its credibility, when it can lead to damage to others or can be detrimental to the forum.

    As was done to a few prominent alt media members in the past why not now?
    Last edited by Flash; 29th September 2018 at 14:42.
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Good Bill, point taken. But I would like to know what are the forum policies regarding trolling and blatantly lying and baiting. It seems sometimes to me that trolling and lying is diregarded for some members while others are readily admonished. This has become definitly unclear to me.
    It's not quite like that! The mods really do discuss all these things a LOT (believe me! ), and we ourselves don't always agree. That's not because we're being obstinate or difficult with one another — far from it — it's simply that the 'lines' are sometimes very unclear.

    What feels like offensive trolling to one person feels much milder (or even, sometimes, nothing at all) for others. That's because we're all human and different.

    We're not intentionally trying to be partial, ever. We do recognize that someone who's a longstanding member, whom we all respect, may just have a bad day or a bad week (or may feel very emotional about just one issue). That happens to us all, mods included. It's when someone is persistently a certain way that there's a different kind of problem.

    As they say in a court of law, 'previous good character' really does count for something when the suspect is charged with a misdemeanor.

    You and I both know about the recent instance of a member who did 'lie' in a post (i.e. what they said about themselves was untrue). But they were making a rhetorical point, not meaning what they wrote literally. The problem is, of course, that it's very likely to be misunderstood.

    As above, what's a 'lie' to one person is a rhetorical device to another. The point, once more, is that we all need to be aware of the probable effect on others reading, and whether we really intend that or not.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Flash (here)
    Plus, baiting and lying does not seem to be a good omen for the forum.
    I should also add:

    Of course, this is why I wrote my major post above.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    For me it's one huge lust and search for truth. It's ever elusive. Disceting the Deep state and figuring out who did what to whom,how,when,and where
    are seemingly endless searches one must take in todays' world where nothing is straight forward but everything couched in politcalese.
    The differences between left and right grow larger but they come together in the deep state which is all criminal all the time.Figuring out the players
    and who is who is almost a part time job. This site is far more humane and has many more intelligent posters than many of those one will find in searching endlessly
    for truth.

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    I'd like to give this thread a bit of a bump, if I may. A little too much drama for my liking recently. As has been said previously, quality over quantity.

    Dave - Toronto

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    It’s got to some points I will not comment in case the ‘applecart’ is upset. Biting one’s tongue is good, gives you time to research, get other opinions, and level ‘reality’.

    However, the very important posts concerning the health of humanity are so vital, thanks to Herve, Bob, Onawah, Paul, and so many others who are dedicated to healthy lives for ourselves and our animals.

    This forum is so helpful, informative, rationalistic and grounded I am so grateful to be a part of it since its inception, watched its birthing from previous existencies with such positivity, and many years later we’re still here being supporting, kind and loving.
    Last edited by avid; 3rd November 2018 at 21:56.
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high



    This may be becoming rather more of an issue at the moment.


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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Just a reminder....

    Quote Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

    This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

    This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

    We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

    Be very sure that this is intended.

    Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

    I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

    To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

    I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

    They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

    The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

    This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

    I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

    In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

    That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

    So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

    They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

    Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

    Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

    My best wishes to all - Bill

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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    -------------

    Hi, Guys, please listen up for a moment.

    This thread is inspired by one of the recent 'disclosure prediction' threads that turned out to be yet another deliberate hoax.

    This is not a shot any any individual member here: but I strongly feel that Avalon members should have a responsibility NOT to forward fake or hokey predictions or 'channeled messages' - which is currently happening at a rate of one or more a week.

    We don't need this kind of nonsense in a climate of the times that could not be more serious. There ARE very critical things happening quietly in the world, and the real signals get lost in all the 'noise'.

    Be very sure that this is intended.

    Folks, I ask you: don't needlessly add to the noise.

    I always wanted Avalon to be about quality rather than quantity: for people to be able to come here quickly and find a digest of good information and intelligent discussion.

    To re-post any junk on YouTube or Facebook that catches our eye, thinking we're doing the members a service, might be a well-intended error of judgment. Please always use your intelligence and discrimination.

    I'm no friend or fan of ATS, but the mods there immediately deleted a thread about the recent "The Agency" 'prediction' of a 'radioactive satellite' over Munich on 20 October, that was really a forecast comet - not only because it was clearly false, but because the writer urged that it must 'go viral'.

    They were quite correct to censor this cheap nonsense and stop it in its tracks. Our collective alternative knowledge base is being deliberately infected by information of zero or negative value in the same way as our computers (or bodies!) can become infected with viruses.

    The presence of the zero-value add-ons decreases our capacity to function optimally. In this case, we're rendered less able to evaluate authentic information. This is one reason why I find myself increasingly unsympathetic to hoaxes, hoaxers and other forms of knowledge devaluation, and have made some of the decisions I've made in the last year.

    This is not in any way 'censoring the truth movement': the real truth is far more incredible and unbelievable than any fiction.

    I want to make the real truth easier to see by flitering out the distractions - some of which are deliberate, and some of which are just naive.

    In 2005-6 I was closely involved in the 'Serpo story'. It was a really valuable experience. Much of that was nonsense (and it got more and more ridiculous as the 'disclosure' was sabotaged from inside): but some was certainly true. It was worth discussing at first until it just became way too crazy and was eventually completely derailed. By that time I had abandoned it.

    That's when I learned the priceless lesson that the truth in the alternative community is much more about PR than about actual facts. PR wins every time. And the insiders also understand this very well. They're masters at playing their cards.

    So, don't help them win their game. Really intelligent analysis is the answer. But that takes time, and care, and real research. The insiders count on you not to bother to do all that.

    They financed the creation of Facebook, and there's a good reason for their smart investment. The 'noise' is WAY amplified there. That's why I have no Facebook page, and never use it.

    Indirectly related to this: please don't re-post YouTube videos with no comment, or with a simple statement like "Hey, Guys, look at this". I and many others will never watch a video unless someone tells me why I should spend the time. Please be smart and caring enough to summarize in your own words what the added value is.

    Added value is what it's all about. If you're NOT adding value, then just keep reading. Though some of them are hard to find, Avalon has over 6,000 threads which contain enough good material to keep us all busy for a very long time.

    My best wishes to all - Bill
    Bumping this very important post once more.

    There’s a LOT of information out there folks. There’s more ‘information’ than there ever was before; and you might agree that I’m saying that water is wet. However I also want to point out that it’s very easy to let our ego ‘drive the bus’.

    Let’s be really careful and introspective for just one moment. There are a lot of major events happening around us; each of us has our own viewpoint. Each of us has heard things, seen things, and maybe even experienced things that have changed our world view. Offering our subjective point of view on this forum carries, in my view, a sense of responsibility and accountability.

    I feel that our goal is not to create or re-create ‘belief system territories’, as Robert Monroe describes in his series of books. Our goal would be better described as ‘seeking out truth’, no matter how uncomfortable “truth” is for you and I.

    I remember a scene in the television series “Captain James Cook” [ABC (Australia)], where the aforementioned captain asked his first officer on the Third Voyage:
    CJC: “Mr Bligh, do you believe there is a North-west passage?”
    BLIGH: “Well, I’m sure we’d all like to believe it...”
    CJC: “- I said, do you believe it?”
    BLIGH: “Through the ice? Across ten thousand miles of latitude...? My heart wants to believe it, Sir, but my mind won’t let me.”
    CJC: “Thank you, Mister Bligh!”

    In the end, of course, Mr. Bligh was right, contrary to the public opinion and the romanticism of the time. It took courage for Bligh to say those words to his captain in the film. He was, after all, admitting that he sorely wanted to believe something that he suspected was not purely logical.

    Please be really careful with what we ascribe to, Avalonians. There is a LOT of ‘stuff’ going on. Plenty of people are influenced by what we report and uncover. We have a responsibility to look for what is real, not what we want to be real.

    https://youtu.be/OHB7hU_r8mc
    Last edited by Tigger; 5th May 2021 at 18:49. Reason: Edits to the dialogue, after reviewing the film scene [CJC - ABC Revcom 1997]

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  28. Link to Post #95
    Canada Avalon Member Nenuphar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Very happy to see this thread bumped. Thank you.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    And another bump.

    -ity

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    Australia Avalon Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high


    It’s worth bumping this thread again at this critical time.

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    Avalon Member Hughe's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    https://www.similarweb.com/website/p....com/#overview

    PA's rank went up from 421,964 to 324,939.
    For free society!

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    Australia Avalon Member Tigger's Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high



    BUMP!

    I know I’ve bumped this thread before, and the motivation to bump it again stems from a week or so of trying to extract the essence of a discussion amid what seems like frivolous distractions in some threads, like this one:

    Trump is NOT the answer

    It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread, and there’s a noticeable uptick in videos ‘plonked’ into many thread discussions without synopsis or context, diluting the flow of discourse. It’s noise, and it often detracts from some otherwise very healthy discussions.

    I get it. There’s way too much information out there, and, particularly when strong opinions are present, it’s often difficult to filter out the “food from the candy”, but the more we give in to our tendency to be right, or first, or popular, the less effective we are in enriching ourselves with valuable, workable information and ideas.

    So please, more signal. Less noise. We’re winning, so relax.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 16th July 2023 at 12:53. Reason: specified the thread

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  38. Link to Post #100
    United States Moderator Sue (Ayt)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: The quality of Avalon: keeping the signal-to-noise-ratio high

    Quote It’s disappointing to read the arguments, often between only two people on a single thread,
    I always wonder why the two parties going back and forth about some argument don't just take it to PM's.
    "We're all bozos on this bus"

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