The Reincarnation Trap

[darthtoaster]

Hi Chris. Love the words. As an input here, I have been where loveoflife is. The Lloyd Pye video is one of my favorites. Everything You Know is Wrong. Still. I had the God shock experience back in 2003. Interestingly, it was under false pretenses. But that doesn't matter to the mind/heart system apparently. Only that one truly embraces love. And it was just a few days ago I had another experience. I realized. I was not expecting it. Complete with a little rainbow

There is frustration for an individual who has come to terms with the system and the fact that we reincarnate within it, one way or the other. It is felt that this forced cycle, as well as the production of "new souls" to fill out an ever burgeoning population, is the product of a malevolent force and that it is controlled by the same and / or additional malevolent forces. The real situation is that the system is autonomous, neutral and not under malevolent control. Malevolent forces work around the system. Their inability to penetrateit is quite the aannoyance to them But to see all this is extremely difficult - one way is to actually get a literal tour of the facility. Another is to self realize via higher insight as you do. But to trust this insight? Very difficult.

The words you speak, to circumvent the entire cycle have been taught before. You know this of course. Others have had just as much difficulty getting the point across. And that's understandable. One cannot be told what the Matrix is - they must see it for them selves.

All that said, the words are never wasted IMO. And I applaud anyone who has studied and put in the deep introspection to realize the facade of reality. Push on my friends, keep going. The full picture is just over the horizon. And calming and investigating the power of the nature of love is an excellent direction to pursue in parallel ...

I've had psychic attacks over the last few days. There have also been Emails trying to convince me of one thing or another, from different individuals. There is quite the interest by adversarial forces in this little forum and its leader ... which tells me something. He's stirring up trouble for "them" ...

Good I support the stirring of trouble Peacefully of course ...

Much love to all, even my amateurish psychic foes. I must not be much of a problem for them. I apparently don't merit the attention of the big guns ...

[loveoflife]

Why would an infinite being ir infinite consciousness if you like be forced to perform austerities and spiritual disciplines life after life? Unless that infinitely powerful being believed themselves to be powerless, flawed, worthless and infinitely small, by being indoctrinated into that belief system from birth.

There is nothing small and weak when using words like eternal and infinite. Infinity has no boundaries.

[greybeard]

Posted by loveoflife (here)

Posted by Wind (here)
Loveoflife, no disrespect meant, but the gnostics got it wrong. There is no demiurge who is in control, God is but he is not evil. The theory about evil creator is one twisted belief system if I've ever heard one. We are here here on Earth to learn, but it is true that humanity has been guided towards negative ways and that has created a lot of unnecessary suffering and sorrow. So many people are now awakening and the darkness is starting to fade away, for too long it has tried to control humanity thrrough ignorance and fear. There are major benevolent divine powers who are assisting us in this process, make no mistake about it. For me this is a fact, because I've actually experienced both sides of the coin.

Whats it like to be right?

Isnt it strange how they were persecuted into obscurity, their books burnt, and killed for heresy by the church.

loveoflife
So was everyone else who appeared to challenge the church.
Gurus in India who suddenly self realised and shouted out "I am the totality all of it" got stoned to death.
Jesus crucified for saying among other things "The Father and I are One--Of my self I do nothing it is the Father within-- be still and know that I am God"

Churches wanted you dependent on a power out there---while installing fear--you will be judged when you die you will be sent to hell if you dont do what we say.
You could almost substitute the story about "The Reincarnation trap" be afraid.
If you reincarnated here its because the Archons did it to you--oh yeah--That means every single person here is on earth due to the reincarnation trap.
You me, everyone. I don't believe that for a moment.
I can only suggest be wary of anything or anyone that promotes fear or control
Miss information, horror stories promote fear--the bogey man will get you.
What you truly are can not be hurt

Now we are in agreement on quite a few things
I prefer to focus on the cure so to speak rather than the problem.

The cure simply is find your True self within.

I agree that you have to be careful who you listen to a far as enlightenment goes.
As I said else where Tim in his thread opening post sums up as in Enlightenment a direct succinct account of what occurs.
Please check it out--worth a look.

Best wishes
Chris

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904

[greybeard]

Posted by loveoflife (here)
Why would an infinite being ir infinite consciousness if you like be forced to perform austerities and spiritual disciplines life after life? Unless that infinitely powerful being believed themselves to be powerless, flawed, worthless and infinitely small, by being indoctrinated into that belief system from birth.

There is nothing small and weak when using words like eternal and infinite. Infinity has no boundaries.

I agree totally with this loveoflife.
Yes we are indoctrinated --I escaped religion at the early age of four--five minutes in church with bleeding hearts and I was out of there.
If they crucified Jesus what would they do to a sinner like me.
Those were my thoughts-- I wanted no part of it.
Thankfully my parents were wise enough to let me be.

Mooji and others point to the Truth, they do not teach as such.
Teaching implies duality.
You are already Self, infinite, timeless, now---you just dont know it.
The Truth is within---not out there some where.
Mooji laughs at gurus who say you need more time, another life time--this practise or that--austerity.
Yes, helpful suggestions are made but no got to do

There is no harm meditating as in just be quiet and still.

Best wishes
Chris

[Rich]

There really is nothing outside of you - you're not really in physical reality.
Physical reality is within you, it's within your consciousness.
It's a concept that you are experiencing of yourself, from a certain perspective.

~Bashar

[Agape]

There's simple way reincarnation is explained in Vedic context , it's the way it was explained to me and probably every second kid in India .

There are 4 states of conscious experience we share in common , awakened state, dream state, deep sleep state ... and fourth, state of consciousness that can be known through contemplation , state of unchanging awareness .
It's essentially the same state people experience in deep sleep with the difference that 'samadhi' is conscious .
However , even in your deep sleep subtle awareness is present .. it was there when you were egg and/or a sperm . It was there when 'cosmic polarities' merged together and you've emerged from them as One , New Being ,

one Universal cycle came to its End before with its boundless options and dreams and new Day of Brahma began ,

and from the Egg of Brahma Vishnu arose in all his incarnations .. of whom you may be one .. before he starts maturing to form of immortal Sage ..


Perhaps we all believe what we can't prove quite yet but what we know from our experience , Life is super-conscious even on the tiniest level , it's intelligent and self-aware beyond our expectations .


Many people have special experiences on the verge of falling to sleep , for example .. even 'NDE's , close to death experiences . We are coming to profound realisations of reality perception often when facing the inevitable ..

deep sleep is like 'little death' , especially when we are exhausted .


When the time of this mortal body expires your 'quantum information' undergoes profound purification by facing the bare reality of its essence and existence .

Understanding the meaning of yourself at that time will set you free .



Till then ....

[loveoflife]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Posted by loveoflife (here)

Posted by Wind (here)
Loveoflife, no disrespect meant, but the gnostics got it wrong. There is no demiurge who is in control, God is but he is not evil. The theory about evil creator is one twisted belief system if I've ever heard one. We are here here on Earth to learn, but it is true that humanity has been guided towards negative ways and that has created a lot of unnecessary suffering and sorrow. So many people are now awakening and the darkness is starting to fade away, for too long it has tried to control humanity thrrough ignorance and fear. There are major benevolent divine powers who are assisting us in this process, make no mistake about it. For me this is a fact, because I've actually experienced both sides of the coin.

Whats it like to be right?

Isnt it strange how they were persecuted into obscurity, their books burnt, and killed for heresy by the church.

loveoflife
So was everyone else who appeared to challenge the church.
Gurus in India who suddenly self realised and shouted out "I am the totality all of it" got stoned to death.
Jesus crucified for saying among other things "The Father and I are One--Of my self I do nothing it is the Father within-- be still and know that I am God"

Churches wanted you dependent on a power out there---while installing fear--you will be judged when you die you will be sent to hell if you dont do what we say.
You could almost substitute the story about "The Reincarnation trap" be afraid.
If you reincarnated here its because the Archons did it to you--oh yeah--That means every single person here is on earth due to the reincarnation trap.
You me, everyone. I don't believe that for a moment.
I can only suggest be wary of anything or anyone that promotes fear or control
Miss information, horror stories promote fear--the bogey man will get you.
What you truly are can not be hurt

Now we are in agreement on quite a few things
I prefer to focus on the cure so to speak rather than the problem.

The cure simply is find your True self within.

I agree that you have to be careful who you listen to a far as enlightenment goes.
As I said else where Tim in his thread opening post sums up as in Enlightenment a direct succinct account of what occurs.
Please check it out--worth a look.

Best wishes
Chris

https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...l=1#post456904

I am very familiar with enlightenment material, and read what many of the masters have to sat about it as well as my own experience and focus on the moment.

I do not find this reincarnation trap information fearful, i find it liberating, but then i am used to having my world turned upside down and inside out.

To those who find this info fearful, then it could be a wake up call to get out of your comfort zone, life is about taking risks playing safe only serves the status quo of domination and control.

It seems to me that its the fearful who accuse others of inciting fear. I embrace my fear, not deny it. Though tbh i may sometimes put it off for a while, after all im only human.

[Deega]

Posted by Finefeather (here)

Posted by Deega (here)
Don’t you work to earn a living for your family?, most if not all of us do, need to have money to keep on going in life, why would it be different for authors who wrote ‘’sticky’’ subjects as ET?

So what you are saying is that people must support someone who writes books which mislead people just because he has a family to feed?

"I have a great imagination and a devious mind... let me make some money out of the ignorant"

Thanks, nobody say that you should support someone writing misleading stories as you say!

If you feel that these authors have devious mind, you're the one making qualification!, but who knows if they aren't right!, time and space will bring very beautiful things in life and it may be authors like these bringing it!

No disrespect here, if theses stories aren't enough for you, what do you like to believe on the Reincarnation Trap?

Unfortunately, this discussion may never end, words, phrases, mind is infinite, there will always be a way to present another side of the story!

Best to you!

[greybeard]

Posted by Agape (here)
There's simple way reincarnation is explained in Vedic context , it's the way it was explained to me and probably every second kid in India .

There are 4 states of conscious experience we share in common , awakened state, dream state, deep sleep state ... and fourth, state of consciousness that can be known through contemplation , state of unchanging awareness .
It's essentially the same state people experience in deep sleep with the difference that 'samadhi' is conscious .
However , even in your deep sleep subtle awareness is present .. it was there when you were egg and/or a sperm . It was there when 'cosmic polarities' merged together and you've emerged from them as One , New Being ,

one Universal cycle came to its End before with its boundless options and dreams and new Day of Brahma began ,

and from the Egg of Brahma Vishnu arose in all his incarnations .. of whom you may be one .. before he starts maturing to form of immortal Sage ..


Perhaps we all believe what we can't prove quite yet but what we know from our experience , Life is super-conscious even on the tiniest level , it's intelligent and self-aware beyond our expectations .


Many people have special experiences on the verge of falling to sleep , for example .. even 'NDE's , close to death experiences . We are coming to profound realisations of reality perception often when facing the inevitable ..

deep sleep is like 'little death' , especially when we are exhausted .


When the time of this mortal body expires your 'quantum information' undergoes profound purification by facing the bare reality of its essence and existence .

Understanding the meaning of yourself at that time will set you free .



Till then ....

Hello Agape
While I got a lot from your post I did not get a reason for reincarnation out of it
Perhaps you could give the reason for reincarnation simply.
I did get how not to.
Love Chris

[darthtoaster]

Hello loveoflife. Excellent questions. You have presented the brick wall of paradox in my own words, for I have used the eternal and infinite adjectives before. Let me see if I can explain without the annoying details of my own travels so to speak.

Imagine if you will two computing machines. Advanced technology of course. The programming language would be strange to us. "Light based" programming, as close to analog as can be attained. Almost seamless

The first machine is a scanner. I have stated that this is a programmed reality. And for many people, this is a non starter. How do you program a soul? You don't. Its too complex, at least it was when this simulation was put together. But with this scanner one can read an existent or even pre-existent soul via the energy signature left behind. Basically from near the accretion disc of a black hole. Now, this scanned information is not a soul in itself. Its the information of what the soul is, its program. This scanning wouldn't be possible if the universe itself was not itself a program.

Now, because a soul can be scanned, it can then be modified, all except the core of the soul. Souls can even be overlayed, one upon another, creating a variant soul. All this would simply be nice to know information if it wasnt for the second computing machine - a holographic generator basically. If you have watched David Wilcox's portion of the Pete Peterson interview, David describes an experiment in Russia by which a holograph of a healthy strawberry is projected and used to repair a strawberry that had a growth inside it. Same principle. This holographic generator can take the scanned information and project it, bathing a biological being in a soul "field". (The earth is bathed in a field which accomplishes this, projecting souls onto fetuses for imprinting). The biological being, created just as Lloyd Pye says, kind of a scrap it together genetic splicing, takes on the attributes of the projection. A human is created.

Here's where the descriptors eternal and infinite enter the story. The souls who were replicated by the scanner and holographic projector were not operational at the time of sampling but the information of their makeup was retained in a definite and readable remnant energy signature. The being who was created however using that information begins as a mortal, because the biological aspect of it is mortal. This being must learn its true nature and in doing so, essentially energizes their soul field core programming which overwrites the programming of the biological, just like in the strawberry experiment. The biological then adjusts to the overwriting and becomes or at least begins a transition to becoming an energetic being. It takes a while for the DNA to adjust, DNA being the hardware aspect of the operating system of the body. If the body completes this process before dying, the being can even preclude death, simply dematerializing at some point, with materialization capability as well. They have completed ascension. However, if a being dies who has achieved the overwrite, after death they remain energetic, and are a truly independent being, ascended as well. They no longer need the support of the database to exist. They are fully capable of drawing on the subtle energy which permeates the universe to exist. They are free. No more reincarnation.

I've ask you to imagine if you will this system I've described. I'm not saying its fact, I'm describing something here which you can compare to the excellent information you have already amassed and see if it helps answer questions. What should be apparent though is this - IF what I propose is true, then the only way out of the system for any given soul is only three options - after a mortal death, a being either returns to the system for immersion in it, remains outside it in a low energy state (with characteristics which exactly match our ghost phenomenon) or ... there is a third way ... a request to be deactivated. Where a biological can suicide, a soul can request euthanasia, and there is a form of AI within the database itself that will honor this. However, upon deactivatjon, it wipes the soul and ques it up for activation again - a new start. So ultimately, the only true escape is ascension.

Again, what I propose is for consideration. The question naturally arises - who did the sampling and built the database? It was a small team from an advanced race long ago. This team of geneticists designed the biological organism to house the souls and to give it a true humanoid appearance, integrated their own DNA into the design. They never suspected what that would do. What it did was weaken them, immensely. Every individual within the universe samples and exists supported by the subtle energy I mentioned earlier. The higher universe functions on a node system meaning every being has a specific power node upon which they have an ample supply of energy. It is postulated that this design aspect is to prevent any entity being able to overwhelm another. In other words, every being is equally powerful. When the scientists integrated their own DNA into their creations, as the human population grew, billions of souls were drawing on only 37 power nodes. The mortal life span dropped from 1200 years to about 10% of that amount and the scientists themselves could no longer even materialize. In fact it is their experiment which allowed the discovery of the discrete nodes associated with individuals.

Humans eventually destroyed themselves in a nuclear conflct. On our timeline that would have occurred in the fall of 2012. You may not be up to date on some of my previous posts. What exactly are we? I'll finish the story. Once the apocalyptic event had taken place, there were over 23 billion human souls adrift, low energy state, ghostlike existences, partially supported by their database and partially by their energy node (which as mentioned were a shared set of 37 nodes). The 37 genetic scientists who created them, with the power drain of living souls removed, were at least able to rematerializes. Outside groups of scientists demonstrated that if the humans reintegrated with their creators, whoever's DNA they held at their core, that the creators would be restored to full capability. Don't ask me how that was done - it has something to do with an interface or bridge by which the creators "jacked in" to the database and allowed the reprojection of the human souls onto themselves, probably using the holographic projections as demonstrated here with the strawberry. The main problem is that the humans would not willingly go back to their creators because they viewed them as evil. A deal was brokered and here were the terms - if the creators were to immerse themselves in a realistic simulation which mirrored the misery the humans had endured, and were genuinely repentent at the completion of it (as measured by a sort of advanced polygraph machine), the humans would reintegrate. It was a good deal for them - in assimilation, they did not lose their awareness - each simply perceived that they had become vastly more aware, all the cores overlayed back upon the origin core.

And that's where we come in. We are the simulation. The process has been completed and we are off the script. Interestingly we did not destroy ourselves. It was supposed to happen. Perhaps ... God? Who knows ... ? But a few of us have achieved self awareness. We are true life, grown out of a computer simulation.

[Agape]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Hello Agape
While I got a lot from your post I did not get a reason for reincarnation out of it
Perhaps you could give the reason for reincarnation simply.
I did get how not to.
Love Chris

Hello Chris,

in most simple terms ... not that I want to be brute ...there's no death .

There's a transformation of consciousness and intention you choose for each 'incarnation' ,
your reason to be here , in this way and form , fulfils itself at some point . The way I saw it is our individual lives are somewhat like kamikaze missions or dives under water ,
no matter how much other time and activities we spend here , we came here like diver comes for a pearl , our 'pearl' is a purpose we hope /foresaw to be fulfilled .

The trap is a trap for those who get trapped ... in their immediate and others, respectively purposes here .

Once out of here , you're on your own .. with clear head , or that is how it should be in my opinion .

You can well send your 'quantum information' to another Star . Or you may use it to continue 'fixing things' here but the trap is , things get never fixed .

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[greybeard]

Thanks cryptoguru--The Out breath and the in breath of God.
God being the "Soul" sole Creator I find the reincarnation trap extremely difficult to believe.
No problem believing that in duality we have dark forces controlling many things, the essentials Food,Energy,Pharmaceuticals, Media, Money, possibly more.

Chris

Ps I am very optimistic--so many are wakening up to what is going on but even more importantly consciousness is rising and that is the ultimate answer/solution.

[Gurudatt]

Love and Peace

[greybeard]

Posted by cryptoguru (here)
Thanks Chris. These words are from the Bhagwad Gita and though they have great meaning, I do not subscribe to the existence of an entity that people may describe as God.

If one reads in between the lines all the holy books and the sentences, one soon realizes the God that we seek is within us not outside. Only that most of us have not discovered it, sent a friend request and connected with it.... :-)

Posted by greybeard (here)
Thanks cryptoguru--The Out breath and the in breath of God.
God being the "Soul" sole Creator I find the reincarnation trap extremely difficult to believe.
No problem believing that in duality we have dark forces controlling many things, the essentials Food,Energy,Pharmaceuticals, Media, Money, possibly more.

Chris

Agreed
The population of that time were not of a level of consciousness that they could handle the Ultimate Truth.
It suited whoever to keep people dependent on an exterior power--God
For my money there is only "One without a second" I am that.
love Chris

[Joe Akulis]

"... then it will have to come back again when creation takes place the next time."

I don't know about you, but even if I have gotten all my mukti out already, if the next universe is as cool as this one, I'll be jumping in to check it out, baby.

[Jhonie]

I've read thru most of this thread and what I see are a lot of words. I am thinking of something David Icke said about 'repeaters'. Are we just repeating what someone else said? Do we just believe because it is written down on paper? What do you really know for yourself? Stop repeating what others say, and talk about what you 'really' know.

[Finefeather]

Posted by Jhonie (here)
I've read thru most of this thread and what I see are a lot of words. I am thinking of something David Icke said about 'repeaters'. Are we just repeating what someone else said? Do we just believe because it is written down on paper? What do you really know for yourself? Stop repeating what others say, and talk about what you 'really' know.

Now this is some really good advice. Well said .

The trouble is that just about everyone on Avalon is a god dam expert and which expert should we believe?

[Joe Akulis]

Ray, you're killing me. Thank you for the permagrin. :-)

[greybeard]

off topic
An Expert is "A has been drip under pressure"
Chris