On the death toll of the Jewish Holocaust

[Deega]

Hi Bsbray, for your information, a compilation of the different publications, since 1900, on the Holocaust event. That tell very well the intentions of the Nation.

http://eta-45.blogspot.ca/2013/03/23...-prior-to.html

[Deega]

Posted by bsbray (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
admitting Jews killed Jews to fulfill prophecy of 6 million had to die before they would have a nation, is the first step

This would explain why there were already fake articles in the 1910's and 1930's saying that "6 million" were being killed or driven out of Russia or whatever the old claim was.

I don't recognize this as a Christian prophecy so this must be something from the Jewish scriptures which were not included in the Old Testament.

Just curious but do you have the scriptural references off hand? If not I can look for them myself. Discussing this sort of thing may be illegal in Europe but the world is still big enough that I'm sure someone would have figured out why this 6 million number seems so important to propagandize.

Hi Bsbray, I've found a Web Site related to the ''Jewish Scriptures'' of the Holocaust, it might interest you, it ain't that long, they're two ''Quotes'' in Red.

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews...ionNumber.html

[A Voice from the Mountains]

Thanks for the links Deega. I'm trying to find a specific passage in scripture that will refer to this, but there are many Hebrew scriptures, the Kabbalah has been little-known to "gentiles" until the past several decades, and of course I don't read Hebrew either.

There is something to this number though, because your article references a 1902 Encyclopedia Britannica article that references "six million Jews who are being systematically degraded" in Russia and Romania. According to statistics on Jewish populations compiled at Wikipedia here, there were not even 6 million Jews in Russia and Romania combined in 1900, but just a little over 4 million. And I don't know of what situation they are referring to in Russia and Romania, but they would be the target of further accusations later which do not seem well-founded. Nonetheless this 6 million figure keeps coming up repeatedly in false "news" articles in the 1910s, 1920s, 1930s and early 1940s, before the Holocaust story was born.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Deega (here)
Hey Rocky, you very well put this, quoting you.

a year ago when Israel was dropping Thermo Nuclear warheads on Gaza brought me to the edge, so many lies, and yet they have the "God given right" to kill anyone they feel necessary to continue their control.

They attacked America on 9/11 using the same warheads, and it is beyond hushed...

70,000 New Yorkers now showing health problems to the exposure to the aftermath.

Gaza was civilians who had no where to escape this attack...

It's uncomprehensible that a Nation can kill children as they feel right, hopefully, this ''God Given Right'' will come to an end at some point in time. Who will bring this Nation Leaders to reason?, the US stopping financing maybe!

They had their missile defense systems hacked and shut down, part of the hack was taking over guidance...

Imagine all of their defense systems turning and firing on Tel Aviv...

They are suddenly waking to the reality that their strength, is also their weakness...

[loungelizard]

Posted by bsbray (here)
Thanks for the links Deega. I'm trying to find a specific passage in scripture that will refer to this, but there are many Hebrew scriptures, the Kabbalah has been little-known to "gentiles" until the past several decades, and of course I don't read Hebrew either.

Bsbray: Thank you for asking for the verse in the Torah that this prophecy is supposedly taken from. I've never managed to track one down and neither, it seems has anyone else.

Rocky Shorz and I have discussed the alleged “6 million must vanish” prophecy here: https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ghlight=hitler

This was the reply I received from from Rabbi Benjamin Blech (Professor of Talmud at Yeshiva University, New York), Blech who is often quoted as the source of this particular myth:


“Of all the Holocaust denial statements this perhaps is one of the most ludicrous and laughable.

I have found throughout the course of the years that it simply does not pay to engage in dialogue with any of these people since it invariably is as fruitless as trying to convince the earth is flat advocates is that in fact it has been conclusively proven otherwise. Logic seems to have no place in their preconceived ideology rooted in hatred.

Thankfully, in a morbid sense, the Germans with their obsession for accurate record-keeping insured that we know the truth about the 6 million. To suggest in addition to all other crazy theories that somehow Jews made up the number to correspond to a cabalistic suggestion that perhaps no more than a few hundred people have ever been aware of is so ludicrous that I find it difficult to believe that anyone actually wrote it up and actually sent it out.

Please consider it yet another insane attempt to make the world forget one of history's greatest tragedies.”

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Posted by Deega (here)
Hi Bsbray, for your information, a compilation of the different publications, since 1900, on the Holocaust event. That tell very well the intentions of the Nation.

http://eta-45.blogspot.ca/2013/03/23...-prior-to.html

Death toll


Deega

Are you aware of the nature of the site you linked to here? The home page majors on links to David Duke.

Seriously?!

[loungelizard]

Hi Deega - I'm sorry but I don't have time to do complicated quotes etc but I wanted to reply to your post 37.

Do I think I went overboard saying you were "blaming the Jews"?

No. So far, you've stated that the Jews are responsible for:

• The introduction of laws about Holocaust denial which are there to keep “the truth” secret
  
• Bribing the International Red Cross to silence the true number of those murdered
  
• Financing both world wars
  
• and (on a different thread)
  
• either lying, being complicit in or actually being responsible for the Holocaust in order to fulfil some non-existent, yet-to-be-proved prophecy.

If I was to use your style of argument, I would merely reply to all your allegations, “Ah, the neo-Nazis/KKK/Aryans/white supremacists/white nationalist/anti semites etc (insert the group of your choice) are behind all those myths”.

That wouldn't get us anywhere.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Why would you say that you've never heard of ihr? In post 32 on this thread, you gave a link to ihr....

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You told me to listen to Dennis Wise.

I have. At length.
https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...ory+never+told

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Can you please explain here what Dennis Wise says about the subject of why the US and Europe were so slow to intervene: as you know I can't currently watch videos.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

You asked if your links weren't good enough for me.

No, they're not. No.


Because you can't seem to grasp the basic concept of bias. In order to conduct legitimate research, you have to examine a wide range of sources. I'm very familiar with the words of Mark Weber, John Bryant, Victor Thorn...your links are all to either denialist or hate sites.

Rest assured that it is very simple to refute everything you might post that denies the Holocaust. But you don't want to do that for some reason.
It seems that your investigation seems to be a cycle of self fulfilling propheicies: you'll only read what supports your beliefs.

[loungelizard]

[QUOTE=Deega;975943]

Posted by loungelizard (here)
Tesseract

ALLIED MILITARY POLICE HQ
VIENNA
1.10.1948
MEMO Nr:31/48

The Allied Committee of Inquiry has to date proven that no poison gas
was ever used to kill prisoners in the following concentration camps
Bergen_belsen, Buchenwald, Dachau, Flassenburg, Gross-Rosen,
Mathausen, and satellite camps Natzweiler, Neuengamme Niederhagen
(Wewelsburg, ravensbruck, Sachsenhausen, Stutthol, Thereselenstadt.

In all cases where gassings were alleged, it could be proven that
torture had been used to extract confessions and witnesses have lied.

Any former inmate who, during their debriefing continues to allege
that poison gas was used to murder people (in particular jews), are to
be reported to this office and if they insist on lying further, they
are to be charged with perjury.

Signed Major Müller
Commanding officer
Allied Military Police Vienna:

witnessed by
Lieutenant Lachout MP.


Typhus, Not Poison Gas

If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.

As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.

Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows: [5]

Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...

Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.

Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases." [6]

Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day.

Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/libcamps.shtml

This document – known as the Lachout Document (or the Muller document) is a forgery. I bet you knew I was going to say that, didn't you?!
But if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

No leading revisionist - including Faurisson - has ever claimed it is true. This is widely accepted by academics and historians - and many revionists, including Alexander Baron who accuses his fellow revisionists of being gullible and naive in believing such childish lies: 'The future of Revisionism cannot be based on lies, and lies, whether brazen - such as the Müller Document - or subtle..."

http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/holocaust_fraud.html

And here are all the refutations proving that this document is competely fake, complete with cross referenced material and primary source references (those vital piece of information that prove the validity of allegations):

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/aust...ives/ld-1.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...forgeries.html

And then there's the book by Brigitte Bailer-Galanda: "The Lachout "document": Anatomy of a Forgery'.


Some of the main reasons that it has been identified as fraud are:

• Lachout could never produce the original document for forensic testing and tracing back to source
  
• there never was a body called the "Military Police Service", or "Allied Military Command Austria": Austria was under Allied command in 1948.
  
• The German and Austrian police had no involvement in investigating the Holocaust
  
• The 'official stamp' on the forgery reads "Republic Österreich-Wachbataillon Wien-Kommando" . Austria didn't have a military force until 1955. There was no"Guard Battalion Vienna" in 1948.
  
• Allied stationery always carried the name of the responsible command: this document doesn't have the name of the occupation authority.
  
• The "Allied Investigating Commission" is fictitious.
  
• Lachout signed the document stating he was a Lieutenant. He was born in 1928 which made him 20 at that time. That's too young to hold such a position in the military. He'd only got his school diploma two years previously
  
• Lachout was a civil servant in Vienna. He could therefore not - by law - have served with the Allies.
  
• He claimed he worked for the "military police as line officer" from 1947-1955 and was also with the "Mountain Troops" and the gendarmie where he was promoted to Hauptmann (captain) in 1954. Austria had no armed forces at that time.

Anyone who continues to maintain that this document (and all the others like it) is true in the face of all evidence - while ignoring, for example, the 47 million documents in the Bad Arolsen archive - brutal raw facts recorded on paper by German and Nazi bureaucrats.

1 document can be faked as proven. Can the same really be said for 47 million?

Grasping blindly at straws is a desperate attempt to avoid acknowledging the deluge of authenticated material that, in most right-minded humans, would sweep away any doubts as to the reality of the Holocaust.

[loungelizard]

Posted by Deega (here)
Do you know if Hoess, the Commandant of Aushwitz, was ever under torture before his assertion, we don’t know that, and if so, your point isn’t valid!

When you speak about “torture”, are you asking about his statements during his trial or in his memoirs?
Here is the transcript of his trial http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/project...hoesstest.html

You'd think, wouldn't you that had he been tortured, that would have been his main line of defence in his trial, wouldn't you? But it wasn't.

This is a statement made by Professor Richard John Evans under cross examination about the alleged mistreatement of Hoss during the trial of David Irving:
“He (Hoss) writes his memoirs in Polish captivity, and the confessions, well, the first of his confessions which, admissions, statements, which resulted from interrogations was, therefore, discounted.

The memoirs that he wrote were certainly not obtained under duress. They were written in captivity under the imminent prospect of death and, to my mind, that makes them more likely to be honest. “

We know that he was tortured by his British captors before being turned over to the Poles - because Höss stated this in his memoirs. If there was an attempt by his Polish captors to falsify these memoirs or to force Höss to lie, this information would have been censored. http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/transcr...ages81-85.html

It's common knowledge that Hoss suffered ill treatment when he was captured by the British and then imprisoned in Poland. But the prosecutor was informed of this and stepped in to put a stop to it. Hoss then wrote in his memoirs, "I have to openly confess that I never would have expected to be treated so decently and so kindly in a Polish prison as I have been since the intervention of the prosecutor's office."

Here are his memoires: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Death-Dealer.../dp/0306806983
This site analyses the documentary evidence that corroborates the information in his memoirs http://www.holocaust-history.org/aus...hoess-memoirs/

When you raise the well documented theory of “obtaining a confession through coersion”, you are failing to take into account that the statements of Nazis such as Rudolf Höss, regarding the mass murders that took place in his camp was in a document written after he had already been sentenced to death. So what did he have to lose?

Many of the more detailed confessions were written after the perpetrators had already been sentenced to death – so what did any of them have to lose?.

Your question ignores the fact that many of the perpetrators described - sometimes in great detail - what happened, but insisted that they themselves either had nothing to do with it or were forced by their superiors to participate.

Adolf Eichmann, in the memoir he chose to write to clear his conscience during his trial, spoke openly of the gassing of the Jews. Much of the spoken testimony was given decades afterwards. If you want to believe the allegation that the Nuremberg confessions were made under duress, read some these.

For example, SS-Unterscharführer Franz Suchomel gave an interview for the film Shoah in 1985. He told of the crimes committed at the Treblinka death camp (from the book Shoah, Claude Lanzmann, 1985, p. 54):

Interviewer: You are a very important eyewitness, and you can explain what Treblinka was.

Suchomel: But don't use my name.

Interviewer: No. All right, you've arrived at Treblinka.

Suchomel: So Stadie, the sarge, showed us the camps from end to end. Just as we went by, they were opening the gas-chamber doors, and people fell out like potatoes. Naturally, that horrified and appalled us. We went back and sat down on our suitcases and cried like old women. Each day one hundred Jews were chosen to drag the corpses to the mass graves. In the evening the Ukrainians drove those Jews into the gas chambers or shot them. Every day!


Regarding postwar testimony from Nazis, were they all tortured into confessing to heinous crimes which they supposedly did not commit? Do you realise what scale this torture must have been on? In Germany alone, 80,000 German soldiers have been investigated for war crimes – over 6,000 have been convicted. In Poland, 40,000 faced trial.


Of the trials held in Germany, did the Germans torture their own people to extract confessions?

Many former SS officers testified as WITNESSES against their former comrades. Research Judge Sturmbannführer Konrad Morgan. Or SS Dr Johann Kremer. Or Bock, Hess, Wiebeck etc..all SS men who chose to testify at the trials in Frankfurt – and before you suggest some kind of plea bargaining, these people were never accused of any crime.

So, why did none of these people ever take the opportunity to shout to the world that they were being silenced through torture and threat?

And why has not one of them testified in favour of the "revisionist" view? Not during the trials, not anonymously in an interview with any of these "revisionist scholars", not for any of the "revisionist" books, websites, or radio broadcasts, not on their deathbeds, not in their posthumously released wills. NEVER! Those who were tried at court had the opportunity to cry out anything during trial, and those who were executed had the opportunity to say some last words.

How come every one of these thousands of people have remained silent about supposed coersion?


Even if 100% of the testimony at Nuremberg was faked because of torture, it doesn't matter because they were military tribunals.. The real, detailed trials that dealt with individual crimes and individual camps were held later. The testimony there holds up to all criticism, as do the millions of documents.

¤=[Post Update]=¤

Again - apologies for the monster posts My internet is being kind to me at the moment so I can actually write on here!

[Hervé]

Memories... true... false/screen... and invented/induced (dubbed-in):


People can be convinced they committed a crime that never happened

Date: January 15, 2015
Source:Association for Psychological Science

Summary:

Innocent adult participants can be convinced, over the course of a few hours, that they had perpetrated crimes as serious as assault with a weapon in their teenage years. This research indicates that the participants came to internalize the stories they were told, providing rich and detailed descriptions of events that never actually took place.

Credit: © jedi-master / Fotolia

"Our findings show that false memories of committing crime with police contact can be surprisingly easy to generate, and can have all the same kinds of complex details as real memories," says psychological scientist and lead researcher Julia Shaw of the University of Bedfordshire in the UK.

Evidence from some wrongful-conviction cases suggests that suspects can be questioned in ways that lead them to falsely believe in and confess to committing crimes they didn't actually commit. New research provides lab-based evidence for this phenomenon, showing that innocent adult participants can be convinced, over the course of a few hours, that they had perpetrated crimes as serious as assault with a weapon in their teenage years.

The research, published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science, indicates that the participants came to internalize the stories they were told, providing rich and detailed descriptions of events that never actually took place.

"Our findings show that false memories of committing crime with police contact can be surprisingly easy to generate, and can have all the same kinds of complex details as real memories," says psychological scientist and lead researcher Julia Shaw of the University of Bedfordshire in the UK.

"All participants need to generate a richly detailed false memory is 3 hours in a friendly interview environment, where the interviewer introduces a few wrong details and uses poor memory-retrieval techniques."

Shaw and co-author Stephen Porter of the University of British Columbia in Canada obtained permission to contact the primary caregivers of university students participating in the study. The caregivers were asked to fill out a questionnaire about specific events the students might have experienced from ages 11 to 14, providing as much detail as possible. The caregivers were instructed not to discuss the questions with the student.

The researchers identified a total of 60 students who had not been involved in any of the crimes designated as false memory targets in the study and who otherwise met the study criteria. These students were brought to the lab for three 40-minute interviews that took place about a week apart.

In the first interview, the researcher told the student about two events he or she had experienced as a teen, only one of which actually happened. For some, the false event related to a crime that resulted in contact with the police (assault, assault with a weapon, or theft). For others, the false event was emotional in nature, such as personal injury, attack by a dog, or loss of a huge sum of money.

Importantly, the false event stories included some true details about that time in the student's life, taken from the caregiver questionnaire.

Participants were asked to explain what happened in each of the two events. When they had difficulty explaining the false event, the interviewer encouraged them to try anyway, explaining that if they used specific memory strategies they might be able to recall more details.

In the second and third interviews, the researchers again asked the students to recall as much as they could about both the true and false event. The students also described certain features of each memory, such as how vivid it was and how confident they were about it.

The results were truly surprising.

Of the 30 participants who were told they had committed a crime as a teenager, 21 (71%) were classified as having developed a false memory of the crime; of the 20 who were told about an assault of some kind (with or without a weapon), 11 reported elaborate false memory details of their exact dealings with the police.

A similar proportion of students (76.67%) formed false memories of the emotional event they were told about.

Intriguingly, the criminal false events seemed to be just as believable as the emotional ones. Students tended to provide the same number of details, and reported similar levels of confidence, vividness, and sensory detail for the two types of event.

Shaw and Porter speculate that incorporating true details, such as the name of an actual friend, into an account that was supposedly corroborated by the student's caregiver likely endowed the false event with just enough familiarity that it came to seem plausible.

"In such circumstances, inherently fallible and reconstructive memory processes can quite readily generate false recollections with astonishing realism," says Shaw. "In these sessions we had some participants recalling incredibly vivid details and re-enacting crimes they never committed."

There were, however, some differences between the students' memories for false events and their memories for true events. For example, they reported more details for true events and they reported more confidence in their descriptions of the true memories.

The fact that the students appeared to internalize the false events to the extent that they did, highlights the fundamental malleability of memory:

"This research speaks to the distinct possibility that most of us are likely able to generate rich false memories of emotional and criminal events," says Shaw.

The findings have clear implications for criminal interrogation and other aspects of legal procedure, affecting suspects, witnesses, and those involved in both law enforcement and legal counsel. But they may also apply to interviews that take place in various other contexts, including therapeutic or even personal settings.

"Understanding that these complex false memories exist, and that 'normal' individuals can be led to generate them quite easily, is the first step in preventing them from happening," says Shaw. "By empirically demonstrating the harm 'bad' interview techniques -- those which are known to cause false memories -- can cause, we can more readily convince interviewers to avoid them and to use 'good' techniques instead."

Investigating the specific characteristics of interviewers and interview tactics that contribute to false memories can help improve interviewing procedure and minimize the risk of inducing false memories, the researchers conclude.

Story Source:
The above story is based on materials provided by Association for Psychological Science. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

• J. Shaw, S. Porter. Constructing Rich False Memories of Committing Crime. Psychological Science, 2015; DOI: 10.1177/0956797614562862

------------------------


Carry on...

[Bingo]

This thread strikes me as a setup with a good tag team operating it. Don't really understand the point of it. Most people have their own opinions on the subject now that the air has cleared, and these kinds of arguments won't change them. Testimonies, documents, give us a break. Practically everything we have been taught on practically every important subject has been incorrect and inaccurate, but we have certainly have plenty of evidence to base our misinformation on.

[Deega]

Thanks LoungeLizard, a few comments on post 46,

You asked if your links weren't good enough for me. No, they're not. No.

Great, you’re a strong, convinced Avalon Member thinking that he has it ‘right’ about the Holocaust. I guess I’m a denior, I find that the Holocaust is a very well, consistant fabrication plan for the purpose of creating a Nation. It’s more than any other Nations have done over the years.

If my links are any good for you, then, I shall asked, why should your links be the real deal?, because some authority says so, who's that authority, may you share?

Because you can't seem to grasp the basic concept of bias. In order to conduct legitimate research, you have to examine a wide range of sources. I'm very familiar with the words of Mark Weber, John Bryant, Victor Thorn...your links are all to either denialist or hate sites.

Bias, yes, you seem to know what it is. From your point of view, a denialist aren’t good enough, hmm!, what if the 'Holocaustian' was a fake show for the perpetuation of a Nation.

Rest assured that it is very simple to refute everything you might post that denies the Holocaust. But you don't want to do that for some reason.
The only reason I have is to find the other side of the story, a lot more people suffer in the 2WW than the Jews and we don’t usually talk about it.

It seems that your investigation seems to be a cycle of self fulfilling propheicies: you'll only read what supports your beliefs.

I may say the same on what you've posted, doesn’t?

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I found references to 200 different "six million Jews allegations" on archive.org.

Here are the first few:

Two hundred "Six million Jews" allegations from

1900-1945

1900 - Stephen S. Wise, New York Times, June 11, 1900: "There are 6,000,000 living,
bleeding, suffering arguments in favor of Zionism."

1902 - Encyclopaedia Britannica, 10th Edition, Vol. 25, 1902, page 482: "While there are in
Russia and Rumania six millions of Jews who are being systematically degraded ..."

1902 - Samuel W. Goldstein, New York Times, November 27, 1902: "PLEA FOR ZIONISM
... In answer I would say: Does Dr. Silverman represent the 6,000,000 Jews in Russia,
300,000 in Roumania and the 1,000,000 in Galicia?"

1903 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), September 18th, 1903, page 6: " ... six million
downtrodden brethren."

1904 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), February 19th, 1904, page 2: " ... where five or six
million people existed under persecution."

1904 - The Jewish Criterion (Pittsburgh), October 7th, 1904, page 1: "... the final and
definite deliverance of the six millions of Russian, Roumanian and Galician Jews ...
transporting five or six million people over the sea."

1904 - Israel Zangwill, New York Times, October 20, 1904: "The problem does not relate to
the American Jews, but to the 6,000,000 in Russia. The Russian Government has consented
to allow the Jews to leave,"

1905 - New York Times, January 29th, 1905: "He declared that a free and a happy Russia,
with its 6,000,000 Jews, would possibly mean the end of Zionism, since the abolition of the
autocracy would practically eliminate the causes that brought Zionism into existence."

1905 - New York Times, November 1st, 1905: "From 1800 to 1902 he caused 6,000,000
Jewish families to be expelled from Russia ..."

https://archive.org/stream/TwoHundre...-1945_djvu.txt

There are 9 of them, so I guess there are 191 to go on that page.

It's funny how many times something happens to 6 million Jews. There must be something behind this fascination with the number 6. Six points on the "star of David," too, which is actually a pagan symbol and doesn't originate from Judaism. It goes back to a Saturn-worshipping cult supposedly picked up from the Babylonians after the Babylonian captivity. It was also after Babylon that the weekly synagogue on Saturday (Saturn's day, sixth day of the week everywhere except the US, Canada and Japan, where it's the 7th) first developed. So I'm sure there is a connection buried somewhere in there. Neither Judaism nor Christianity have escaped inheritances from older cultures that practiced human sacrifice and all sorts of other things that we would frown on today.

[Tesseract]

I typed in '50 000 jews' into google and the search turned up 1.4M hits, covering deportation, protests, Iran, ghettos, grants ($50000), emigration, war and so on.

I did another more formal search for the string ''xxxx million jews'' (xxxx = a written number) covering documents from 1850 to 1938.

I got the following numbers of hits for these xxxx values:

one million 20
two million 26
three million 26
four million 14
five million 12
six million 24
seven million 7
eight million 3
nine million 2
ten million 4
eleven million 1
twelve million 3
thirteen million 3
fourteen million 6
fifteen million 4



Some excerpts of my choosing for 'three million':

What was said above as to the uprooting of home ties and the fear of future disturbances will a
fortiori apply to Russia for some time to come. Mr. Schiff, who was as well informed as anyone,
expected three million Jews to come to this country after the war...

But even if two or three million Jews are finally absorbed in Palestine, it remains to be seen
whether the problem of living will be materially lessened...

Naturally, since this state of affairs affects the
children in the families of three million Jews in the United States,...

In Soviet Russia to-day the three million Jews are finding
it difficult to remain Jewish, because ...

fter making
a trip of investigation through Poland, stated that, "If there were in existence a ship that could
hold three million human beings, the three million Jews of Poland would board it...

I'm not trying to number pick, a different search may get more hits for 6m. I did try expanding out to 1944, but it still didn't make 'six million' the winner for the number of hits. Some numbers get more hits than others for different reasons, like 'three million jews' living in america or poland. But wait, now that I think of it, perhaps three million is the real number within the elusive kabbalistic prophecy, and they just had to make two attempts at it. The games people play..

[A Voice from the Mountains]

I notice you hand-selected one of your results from the "three million" search but I wonder what the content of the other results are. These are not simply hits of "x number of Jews," but actually 200 allegations of crimes being committed against 6 million Jews specifically, most of them apparently being completely false allegations as far as I can tell.


Here's another interesting article insinuating that the Russians were about to implement a "solution" for the "extermination" of 6 million Jews:




What do you think is the historical veracity of this claim being made here?

This seems to be a fairly common accusation thrown at the Russians in the early 1900's. Maybe Germany was the back-up plan after they couldn't get it to work out in Russia.

[Deega]

[QUOTE=loungelizard;978030][QUOTE=Deega;975943]

Posted by loungelizard (here)
Tesseract

This document – known as the Lachout Document (or the Muller document) is a forgery. I bet you knew I was going to say that, didn't you?!
But if something seems too good to be true, it usually is.

No leading revisionist - including Faurisson - has ever claimed it is true. This is widely accepted by academics and historians - and many revionists, including Alexander Baron who accuses his fellow revisionists of being gullible and naive in believing such childish lies: 'The future of Revisionism cannot be based on lies, and lies, whether brazen - such as the Müller Document - or subtle..."

http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/holocaust_fraud.html

And here are all the refutations proving that this document is competely fake, complete with cross referenced material and primary source references (those vital piece of information that prove the validity of allegations):

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/aust...ives/ld-1.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...forgeries.html

And then there's the book by Brigitte Bailer-Galanda: "The Lachout "document": Anatomy of a Forgery'.


Some of the main reasons that it has been identified as fraud are:

• Lachout could never produce the original document for forensic testing and tracing back to source
  
• there never was a body called the "Military Police Service", or "Allied Military Command Austria": Austria was under Allied command in 1948.
  
• The German and Austrian police had no involvement in investigating the Holocaust
  
• The 'official stamp' on the forgery reads "Republic Österreich-Wachbataillon Wien-Kommando" . Austria didn't have a military force until 1955. There was no"Guard Battalion Vienna" in 1948.
  
• Allied stationery always carried the name of the responsible command: this document doesn't have the name of the occupation authority.
  
• The "Allied Investigating Commission" is fictitious.
  
• Lachout signed the document stating he was a Lieutenant. He was born in 1928 which made him 20 at that time. That's too young to hold such a position in the military. He'd only got his school diploma two years previously
  
• Lachout was a civil servant in Vienna. He could therefore not - by law - have served with the Allies.
  
• He claimed he worked for the "military police as line officer" from 1947-1955 and was also with the "Mountain Troops" and the gendarmie where he was promoted to Hauptmann (captain) in 1954. Austria had no armed forces at that time.

Anyone who continues to maintain that this document (and all the others like it) is true in the face of all evidence - while ignoring, for example, the 47 million documents in the Bad Arolsen archive - brutal raw facts recorded on paper by German and Nazi bureaucrats.

1 document can be faked as proven. Can the same really be said for 47 million?

Grasping blindly at straws is a desperate attempt to avoid acknowledging the deluge of authenticated material that, in most right-minded humans, would sweep away any doubts as to the reality of the Holocaust.

Thanks LoungeLizard for your reply, well, give whatever information to someone convinced they hold the truth, and it want ever be good enough. The PTB want it this way, they want the Holocaust to continue as it is, and no information will pass their screening. It's so easy to say it's fraud, it's faked!, the PTB has the upper hand leveraging in this Historical Events. Here's another denior of the Holocaust.

Holocaust or Hoax?

The Arguments

by Jürgen Graf

CHAPTER V

OH, WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE...

If we make a careful examination of the statements and numbers offered by the orthodox historians over the decades, it becomes obvious that there is hopeless confusion, and that the official version of the Holocaust has been constantly evolving. This is reminiscent of the manner in which the facts are constantly rewritten by Party officials in George Orwell's novel of the century "1984". The following are a few remarkable examples:

The number of Auschwitz victims

Let us begin with the Auschwitz death statistics (1). The following are the deaths in the largest of the concentration camps:

- 9 million people, according to the film Nuit et Brouillard (2);

- 8 million people, according to the report of the French Office for the Investigation of War Crimes (3);

- 7 million people, according to Jewish former inmate Raphael Feigelsohn (4);

- 6 million people, according to Jewish publisher Tibere Kremer (5);

- 5 million people, including 4.5 Jews, according to Le Monde of 20 April 1978;

- 4 million people, according to the Nuremberg Tribunal (6);

- 3.5 million gassing victims, of whom 95% were Jews, and "many" who died of other causes, according to the Jewish film director Claude Lanzmann (7);

- 3 million people, including 2.5 gassing victims, by 1 December 1943 alone, according to the confession of the first Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hoess (8);

- 2.5 million people, according to the Jewish ex-inmate Rudolf Vrba (9);

- 2 to 3 million murdered Jews as well as thousands of non-Jews according to the confession of SS Man Pery Broad (10);

- 1.5 to 3.5 million gassed Jews just between April 1942 and April 1944, according to the Israeli "Holocaust expert" Yehuda Bauer in 1982 (11);

- 2 million gassed Jews according to Lucy Dawidowicz (12);

- 1.6 million people, including 1,352,980 Jews, according to Yehuda Bauer in 1989 (13);

- 1.5 million people, according to the Polish government in 1995 (14);

- approximately 1.25 million people, including 1 million Jews, according to Raul Hilberg (15);

- 1 to 1.5 million people, according to Jean-Claude Pressac in 1989 (16);

- 800,000 to 900,000 people, according to the Jewish historian Gerald Reitlinger (17);

- 775,000 to 800,000 people, including 630,000 gassed Jews, according to Jean-Claude Pressac in 1993 (18);

- 630,000 to 710,000 people, including 470,000 to 550,000 Jews, according to Jean-Claude Pressac in 1994 (19).

It will be noted that the number of victims is constantly being revised downwards. But the total number of 5 to 6 million Holocaust victims never changes! You can subtract hundreds of thousands, even millions, from the 5 to 6 million, and the final total is always the same! That's Holocaust mathematics!

To which document, to what discovery of mass graves do the exterminationists refer in their wildly divergent numbers of victims? None! All the figures given above are pure fantasy, without any reference to documented realities at Auschwitz. Revisionist estimates run to approximately 150,000 victims (according to Robert Faurisson) or 160,000 to 170,000 victims (according to Carlo Mattogno) -- without any gassings. This still amounts to 40% of all inmates registered at Auschwitz. Epidemic disease, chiefly typhus, were the main cause of the terribly high death toll at Auschwitz.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/hoh/chap5.html

Blessing to everyone.

[syrwong]

The number of people massacred in Nanking during the darkest two weeks in the 20th Century was always estimated to be between 300 to 400 thousands. Counting this number should be a lot harder given the mobility of the population before the massacre (refugees coming in and out of Nanking). Why is the counting so inconsistent in this case where detail records of inmates existed and kept well?

[Rocky_Shorz]

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
a year ago when Israel was dropping Thermo Nuclear warheads on Gaza brought me to the edge, so many lies, and yet they have the "God given right" to kill anyone they feel necessary to continue their control.

They attacked America on 9/11 using the same warheads, and it is beyond hushed...

70,000 New Yorkers now showing health problems to the exposure to the aftermath.

Gaza was civilians who had no where to escape this attack...


if you want me to stop pointing out the lies of the Holocaust then come clean for the atrocities committed against Gazans, Americans and Japanese and bring those responsible to justice.

from Sorcha's latest...

"Important to note about President Obama’s “anger” with Israel, MoD experts in this report say, has been their stealing nuclear secrets and covertly making atomic bombs since the 1950’s which western governments, including Britain and the US, have continually turned a blind eye to, but which the international community has increasingly become alarmed about and which led to last December’s UN General Assembly resolution calling on the Israelis to “accede to that[NPT] treaty without further delay, not to develop, produce test or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons, to renounce possession of nuclear weapons.”

Even worse, these MoD experts note, was the “secret deal” made between President Obama and EU leaders that if they supported his sanctions against the Russian Federation, he would then in turn (after the Iran NPT agreement was concluded) back their proposed UN sanctions against Israel.

Though the exact UN sanctions being planned by the EU against Israel are not contained in this MoD report, they were leaked this past March to the British newspaper Guardian and reported on by the Jerusalem Post News Service who, in part, wrote about them:

“The European Union has produced an explosive report recommending sanctions against Israel over its construction policies and security measures in Jerusalem, the British daily Guardian reported on its website on Friday.

The leaked report describes the capital as a city gripped by the worst “polarization and violence” since the second intifada of a decade ago.

The document, which is an amalgamation of recommendations prepared by European diplomats stationed in the region, accuses the government of exacerbating tensions in the city by accelerating construction in the eastern part of the capital.

According to The Guardian, the city has been beset by a “vicious cycle of violence... increasingly threatening the viability of the two-state solution.” The report goes on to say that Israel’s “systematic” construction of housing in “sensitive areas” has compounded the problem.

The EU report takes Israel to task for what it describes as “heavy-handed policing and punitive measures” against Arabs in the city, “including eviction and home demolitions by Israeli forces.”

More significantly, the document prescribes a series of measures aimed at curbing the distribution and sale of products manufactured beyond the Green Line.

The report urges restrictions against “known violent settlers and those calling for acts of violence as regards immigration regulations in EU member states.”"


my timeline punishes those doing wrong, even Israel...

"With the EU suffering its worst migrant crisis in its history due to the devastating instability of both the Islamic Middle East and Northern Africa, this report continues, President Obama and his European counterparts have agreed upon a strategy of “neutering” Israel as a means to stops these regions from causing a much larger regional, or even global, catastrophe.

And of the worst fears of both President Obama and EU leaders, this report warns, would be an Israeli unilateral nuclear attack upon Iran which would immediately plunge our entire world into war.

So in order to stop Israel, this report concludes, these Western powers have begun what they call a “carrot and stick” approach…which begins next week when US Defense Secretary Ashton Carter travels to Israel to offer them billions-of-dollars in additional conventional arms…but which will be contingent upon them accepting a two-state solution for their Palestinian population and joining the NPT which will mean their having to give up their nuclear weapons and putting their atomic facilities under international inspection and control measures.

To if this President Obama-EU “plan” against Israel will work this report doesn’t state…but it is interesting to note that one of America’s foremost futurists, Gerald Celente, stated this week that “Finally - finally! - Obama has earned his Nobel Peace Prize” after the Iran agreement, instead of global war, was signed. One can only hope this type of sanity continues... " link

I have photos of the nukes Israel dropped on their own citizens and have spread them freely...

Gaza deserves justice for these crimes...

[idiit]

In one of the most amazing events to occur in occupied Germany since the second world war Historian Ursula Haverbeck made history in a defiant interview in which she openly trashed the very basis of the lie upon which all modern European social democratic states have been built. The elderly historian, brought into question the moral integrity of all Western political parties and academic institutions, exposing the official account of the second world war and the Holocaust for the lie it was on a television station which is the second largest in the world after Britain’s BBC.

Millions of surprised Germans sat on the edges of their sofas and gasped as for the first time in their lives the truth about the second world war was brought into their living rooms as the second largest broadcaster in the world took the risk of being shut down for the illegal offense of transmitting Holocaust denial by the criminal transnational Jewish financial occupation regime in Bonn.

In a surprise night-time raid eighty-six year old German historian Ursula Haverbeck had her door kicked in and her house stormed by an armed anti-terrorist Police swat team after her recent Germany-wide television appearance. The secret police trashed her home throwing it’s entire contents onto the floor in a search for what are believed to be documents which might incriminate the official account of the Holocaust. Three other historian colleagues of hers have also had their homes broken into and their books and documents seized by the security police. She is being charged under draconian anti-Jewish hate speech and Holocaust denial laws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPa_QeV9KDM#t=17

German Television Exposes Holocaust Lies: Historic Broadcast Shocks Germany

Posted on July 24, 2015

https://jhaines6a.wordpress.com/2015...hocks-germany/

[Shadowself]

Posted by Deega (here)

Posted by bsbray (here)

Posted by Rocky_Shorz (here)
admitting Jews killed Jews to fulfill prophecy of 6 million had to die before they would have a nation, is the first step

This would explain why there were already fake articles in the 1910's and 1930's saying that "6 million" were being killed or driven out of Russia or whatever the old claim was.

I don't recognize this as a Christian prophecy so this must be something from the Jewish scriptures which were not included in the Old Testament.

Just curious but do you have the scriptural references off hand? If not I can look for them myself. Discussing this sort of thing may be illegal in Europe but the world is still big enough that I'm sure someone would have figured out why this 6 million number seems so important to propagandize.

Hi Bsbray, I've found a Web Site related to the ''Jewish Scriptures'' of the Holocaust, it might interest you, it ain't that long, they're two ''Quotes'' in Red.

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews...ionNumber.html

The birdman? Great source.....for White Liberation.....

http://www.thebirdman.org/

[idiit]

Jesus was a Palestinian.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/07...a-palestinian/

pretty good read imo