Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[Linda Joy Crutcher]

Hello again, Rahkyt.

I reread your brilliant words again this morning and have already come to understand in a new way. Thank you very much for the awakening!

Blessings and thanks.

Linda

[Mark]

You're very kind, Linda, I appreciate the sentiment.

When I write, it often comes off in my mind as barely adequate, as the words are only remnants of experience inexpressible, I express it though as best I can given my, our, continuing traversal of Samsara. Until my last Kensho I watched a lot of videos of people attempting to describe the indescribable. On that journey. Filled with movement, meditations, desires. How it's not necessary. But once I returned, I also 'remembered', as EmEx put it so clearly, and now the challenge is the Age-old one, how to express it clearly, and there are so many out there now who do it as well as anybody can. It is all helpful. This thread is a treasure for all seeking resources along the 'journey'.

I miss them too, GB. Bless.

[greybeard]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
You're very kind, Linda, I appreciate the sentiment.

When I write, it often comes off in my mind as barely adequate, as the words are only remnants of experience inexpressible, I express it though as best I can given my, our, continuing traversal of Samsara. Until my last Kensho I watched a lot of videos of people attempting to describe the indescribable. On that journey. Filled with movement, meditations, desires. How it's not necessary. But once I returned, I also 'remembered', as EmEx put it so clearly, and now the challenge is the Age-old one, how to express it clearly, and there are so many out there now who do it as well as anybody can. It is all helpful. This thread is a treasure for all seeking resources along the 'journey'.

I miss them too, GB. Bless.

Hi Rahkty
It is you and people like you sharing as you do that make this thread the resource that it is.
I think I will start re reading a page or so at a time.
If I had the skill an index at the front would be a good thing.
Anyway people express what they need to express and find the relevant answers instantly in most cases.

Thanks Chris

[Mark]

Hi Greybeard, I am amenable to spending time in this thread and interacting on this topic with folks.

One thing that I have been wondering about are others experiences in Awakening.

I'm not talking about political or conspiratorial awakening, but instead, the Awakening described by the Ancients and Mystics. The awakening of spirit.

What I have found to be quite disconcerting and unexpected is the way that others in your life interact with you once you've had an experience that marks a clear before/after point in your life. These are some the characteristics I have noted:

1) They act as if nothing has happened.

2) They get angry.

3) They do not believe you.

4) They continue to act as if you are the same as you were before even if your energy, personality and bearing is markedly different.

In all of the old societies when someone would awaken to the extent that they were no longer the same person they were before, they would always leave. They always spent time in the Desert or the Forest, their shift in behavior and focus was done during a period of aloneness, time away from others. Therefore, when they returned to the space of community, they were fully ensconced within their new personality matrix and were able to make a clear distinction between who they were before and who they had then become.

And yet, there are the numerous tales in the Buddhist tradition where Awakening would occur to numerous people, sometimes individually, sometimes in pairs or trios, other times in the hundreds, or the thousands. But there are no tales about how they dealt with the Awakening experience and reconciled it with the lives they lead thereafter.

I have come to conclusions and also have developed strategies in dealing with this but would love to hear other people's accounts, if there are still any around the forum who have experienced Kensho/Satori events.

Bless.

[greybeard]

Adyashanti has addressed this subject on quite a few of his talks.
http://www.adyashanti.org/

Thanks for starting the discussion Rahkty

I will see what I can come up with myself.

Anyone else is welcome to contribute or ask questions.

Chris

[greybeard]

On one occasion I was with my future wife sitting on a bench and I noticed a woman making her way in our direction---all of a suden I saw "God" in her every movement I was in awe. I was mesmerised---some what bug eyed. I was brought back with a comment on me staring at this woman.
I did not even attempt to explain.
Chris

[lookbeyond]

Posted by greybeard (here)
On one occasion I was with my future wife sitting on a bench and I noticed a woman making her way in our direction---all of a suden I saw "God" in her every movement I was in awe. I was mesmerised---some what bug eyed. I was brought back with a comment on me staring at this woman.
I did not even attempt to explain.
Chris

Well Chris that is beautiful, if only the lady knew (both actually) thx -lb

[greybeard]

I agree very much with you Rahkty and Im not enlightened though drifting in and out of awake would probably be accurate.
A friend on Avalon at one point in time could not see how I did not take sides and could see the others point of view. It looked like I was being two faced but no I could easily make a solid case for both points of view.(but for the grace of God there go I)
It gets increasingly difficult for me to interact with others.
I feel compassion yet im divorced from the situation.
I see it as a cosmic joke yet Im aware of the others suffering.
How can I explain what I dont understand?
I can voice an opinion but there is no energy behind it--I dont mind being wrong and an opinion is not set in concrete.
To others that looks like all kind of things that it is not--- there is no agenda on my part.

Chris

[greybeard]

The Heart's Intuitive Intelligence: A path to personal, social and global coherence The Spiritual Heart -- is in a way a little like a smart phone, invisibly connecting us to a large network of information. It is through an unseen energy that the heart emits that humans are profoundly connected to all living things. The energy of the heart literally links us to each other. Every person's heart contributes to a 'collective field environment.' This short video explains the importance of this connection and how we each add to this collective energy field. The energetic field of the heart even connects us with the earth itself.

The Institute of HeartMath (http://www.heartmath.org) is helping provide a more comprehensive picture of this connection between all living things through a special science-based project called the Global Coherence Initiative (http:///www.glcoherence.org.) They hope to help explain the mysteries of this connection between people and the earth...and even the sun.

Scientists at the Institute of HeartMath (IHM) have already conducted extensive research on the power of heart, the heart/brain connection, heart intelligence and practical intuition.

Whether personal relationships, social connections, or even the global community - we are all connected through a field of electromagnetic energy. Increasing individual awareness of what we bring to this field environment could be the key to creating a sustainable future, a future that we can be proud to have helped create. Learn more about this research, http://www.heartmath.org/heart-intell..., scroll to bottom of the page.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QdneZ4fIIHE

[Rich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
It gets increasingly difficult for me to interact with others.

why?......

[Chester]

try this on for size... I agree with Tim Freke about this "ego."

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=uIkQusGq3II

[greybeard]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by greybeard (here)
It gets increasingly difficult for me to interact with others.

why?......

Good question EmEx
To put it in context From a somewhat shy solitary childhood I started winning sailing races and playing in a successful local rock band-- a nonentity became popular--I liked that.
Several successful self employed businesses followed on
When I got immersed in the spiritual search all that began to fall away-- the number of people I could share spiritual insights with got fewer and fewer.
There was a personality change --- what was so important, no longer was of any concern.
The mind became virtually silent.
I could see clearly the cause of others difficulties but had to keep my mouth shut as sometimes that would have been an unpalatable "truth"
I have to be very specific in what I say as If I let right brain dominate as it does then people really would think id lost it.
I think in essence and context rather than detail.
I mainly keep myself to my self, apart from a couple of musician friends I play with---I dont discuss anything other than music or the weather with them.
The forum is invaluable to me as here I can interact in a positive way.

So there you go.

Regards Chris

[GarethBKK]

It is a fact that very few talk about what happens after awakening, apart to suggest that living in a monastery may be necessary. This misses the point. At a Damma talk recently, a venerable teacher was talking about the need to keep practicing. My comment was that the more I practiced the fewer friends I had. The response (after the laughter) was that we change our friends with our change in awareness. Here's my observation:

Self makes the decisions about where to go, who to meet, what to say and what to do. Allow Self to guide. Put thoughts into their proper perspective and act from Heart. Allow the surprises to arise. Some old acquaintances think the person they see is now serious and dull. Some become wary. But, many more begin to seek the most intimate of exchanges in the interest of helping themselves. Near strangers will approach and start taking about marital problems, for example. This is the power of allowing awareness to speak.

When launching into all contexts accepting, free of attachment to outcomes, with no need for self-gratification or reward, and only a willingness to project love, the fascination with life becomes an enchantment. This is purpose.

[lookbeyond]

Funny Gareth i wrote a post and deleted, ive found that i do the above with work and feel authentic, no need for self gratification/rewards/approval.The hardest test is Family Life!!where outcomes are important, people get offended and gossip-shish!I wish to be a nun in a monastry sometimes!Real life is super challenging especially when you have to engage where you dont want to anymore in the interests of your children.For me, enchantment is when im on my own in the backyard,a coffee in hand, sun on my back, birds singing in the trees, our bunny nuzzling my feet- solitude, peace,washing blowing gently in the breeze, just here and now, no later- but then life calls,oh well

[Rich]

greybeard, I can relate I don't have anyone on my 'level' that I could talk to about these things so I talk about practical, mundane things.

Posted by greybeard (here)
I have to be very specific in what I say as If I let right brain dominate as it does then people really would think id lost it.

Have you heard of Non violent communication?
I am far from an expert in it but it has still helped in situations:
non violent communication

[GarethBKK]

Posted by lookbeyond (here)
Funny Gareth i wrote a post and deleted, ive found that i do the above with work and feel authentic, no need for self gratification/rewards/approval.The hardest test is Family Life!!where outcomes are important, people get offended and gossip-shish!I wish to be a nun in a monastry sometimes!Real life is super challenging especially when you have to engage where you dont want to anymore in the interests of your children.For me, enchantment is when im on my own in the backyard,a coffee in hand, sun on my back, birds singing in the trees, our bunny nuzzling my feet- solitude, peace,washing blowing gently in the breeze, just here and now, no later- but then life calls,oh well

Thank you for the reminder. I have no idea how I would cope if I were looking after little ones. My wife and I both know that neither one of us needs the other, but we love each other anyway. I haven't the experience of having children dependent on me. Perhaps projecting love at others' children in a detached way will give insights into approaching your own?

Life calling me is what I crave now, rather than solitude. I never know what great adventure lies in wait. By way of example, this morning I saw a guy setting up a sandwich stall on the street I hadn't seen before. We exchanged smiles. I'd just had breakfast but I wished him success as I as I passed. He thanked me. The thought arose that I should have bought a sandwich from him. Two hours later my wife came home and surprised me with a sandwich bought from a new guy she had seen on the street. This sounds a simple thing, but it is not coincidence. The amazement of good intention manifesting itself again and again has become what life is all about. I follow my Heart and let experience happen.

[lookbeyond]

Just re read my post, i wasnt actually meaning not wanting to engage with my children, i meant the engaging with others that comes from having children, this is most challenging for me,eg the pettiness and power games of the school canteen which i had to avoid, school committees etc.All these types of things wear me down.

Gareth, thankyou for your example re the sandwich man,i live this way too,i smile when i make eye contact with people.Most recently we caught a bus and on the way home an obviously mentally/slightly physically disabled young man boarded the bus.He gently and cautiously made eye contact with the older lady next to him who warmly smiled at him, then he ventured to look across at me and we exchanged smiles, later he looked again and i smiled again and what i received in return was one of the most magnificent smiles i have ever been privileged to receive,these are treasured moments in a harsh world.

[Chester]

Hi, a friend of mine wrote the following. I know him well and understand his words as a metaphor... not meant literally. I found these words very helpful so I printed it up and taped it to my fridge where I am able to read it often -

from Mark Pinkham

Taming the Dragon

For a Gnostic Templar all the sacred symbology associated with the spiritual warrior represents his or her inner principles and characteristics. According to this Gnostic Templar perspective, St. Michael and his Dragon represent the inner Soul/Spirit (St. Michael) and the material parts (the Dragon) of a spiritual warrior, including his or her physical, emotional and mental bodies, as well as mind, ego, etc. The challenge of the warrior's inner Soul/Spirit is to tame those parts of self represented by the Dragon and then use them as vehicles to achieve enlightenment - an accomplishment represented by the motif of a warrior riding his or her Dragon to other worlds, and ultimately to "Heaven." In this regard Heaven denotes both a dimensional realm as well as the ascended Gnostic Consciousness. Thus, from a Gnostic Templar perspective, to "slay" the Dragon - which is the accepted interpretation of St. Michael's interaction with his Dragon - is tantamount to slaying yourself.

[greybeard]

If you sign up for Tim Freeke's free news letter on this link you will get a free two hour talk which is brilliant.

http://www.themysteryexperience.com/

He was also in the film "Who is driving the dream bus."

Thanks to Chester for reminding me of Tim.
and yes the individual self dies to make room for the Self.
Tim is quite clear in the talk----ultimately there is only one of us here.
At first the thought that I am the body has to be seen through--then the idea that I am the doer-- then finally knowing there is only "One without a second"
Chris

[Chester]

Posted by greybeard (here)
If you sign up for Tim Freeke's free news letter on this link you will get a free two hour talk which is brilliant.

http://www.themysteryexperience.com/

He was also in the film "Who is driving the dream bus."

Thanks to Chester for reminding me of Tim.
and yes the individual self dies to make room for the Self.
Tim is quite clear in the talk----ultimately there is only one of us here.
At first the thought that I am the body has to be seen through--then the idea that I am the doer-- then finally knowing there is only "One without a second"
Chris

Could not be said better, Chris, and done so in 40 words. Man, its good to know you, Sir!