Enlightenment: The Ego, what is it? How to transcend it.

[greybeard]

Your no half bad your self Chester.
That's a Scottish compliment.
Love Chris

[Shadowman]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
Hi Greybeard, I am amenable to spending time in this thread and interacting on this topic with folks.

One thing that I have been wondering about are others experiences in Awakening.

I'm not talking about political or conspiratorial awakening, but instead, the Awakening described by the Ancients and Mystics. The awakening of spirit.

What I have found to be quite disconcerting and unexpected is the way that others in your life interact with you once you've had an experience that marks a clear before/after point in your life. These are some the characteristics I have noted:

1) They act as if nothing has happened.

2) They get angry.

3) They do not believe you.

4) They continue to act as if you are the same as you were before even if your energy, personality and bearing is markedly different.

In all of the old societies when someone would awaken to the extent that they were no longer the same person they were before, they would always leave. They always spent time in the Desert or the Forest, their shift in behavior and focus was done during a period of aloneness, time away from others. Therefore, when they returned to the space of community, they were fully ensconced within their new personality matrix and were able to make a clear distinction between who they were before and who they had then become.

And yet, there are the numerous tales in the Buddhist tradition where Awakening would occur to numerous people, sometimes individually, sometimes in pairs or trios, other times in the hundreds, or the thousands. But there are no tales about how they dealt with the Awakening experience and reconciled it with the lives they lead thereafter.

I have come to conclusions and also have developed strategies in dealing with this but would love to hear other people's accounts, if there are still any around the forum who have experienced Kensho/Satori events.

Bless.

Hi Rahkyt,

After awakening, 1-4 are perfectly OK.

There is only awakened being, but from the point of view of the distorted ego state, it is confusing, as they still see you as just another ego, possibly making outrageous or deluded claims.

Without them having at least some direct experience or kensho or satori, they have no frame of reference.

As you pointed out, putting the “experience” into words is difficult, and even the most eloquent descriptions have been misunderstood throughout the ages.

Still, the totality has it’s own way, be it beyond logic or comprehension. Those who are sufficiently “ripe” or mature will be drawn to an awakened one. And just as there are a myriad of seekers, so the totality creates a myriad of apparent awakened beings to suit different temperaments and circumstances.

This again leads to some confusion, as seekers tend to imitate the outer manifestations of a Buddha or Christ without comprehending their “inner” transformation or transcendence. As ego’s, they see an enlightened one as a very special ego, not as a being whom has gone totally beyond relative or individual identity;

Foxes have holes and birds have their nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head and rest. - Jesus

If anyone should say that the Tathagata comes or goes, or sits or reclines, he does not understand my meaning. - Buddha

gone gone, gone beyond, gone altogether beyond, O what an awakening, all hail! - Buddha

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=bWr0XW9w7JA

To the rare ones with ears to hear, offer clear guidance, without creating dependence. To those who are not ready, do not be drawn into lengthy discussions or debates. Allow them complete freedom to be as they are, until their yearning for truth overrides their worldly pursuits, conceptual attachments and interests.

As long as one has not attained Awakening, or Nirvana, or Rigpa, or Buddhahood, one is subject to repeated assaults by the illusory power of the mind (metaphorically symbolized by Jesus's temptation by Satan in the desert, or Mara's assault on Buddha under the bodhi tree). In Satori, it is like the clouds clear for a little while, and the clear sky of pure awareness is experienced. But then the clouds return. As long as there remain traces of identification with forms - mental, physical or otherwise; simply notice it and continue with your preferred technique. Eventually the state of non-duality will stabilize. Until then, it is wise to attend to your own “poison arrow” before being too concerned about removing the poisoned arrows of others;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_arrow

The mind’s (or Satan’s, or Mara’s) greatest trick is to imitate the Self, with a thought construct, or matrix, known as the self or ego.

Awakening is simply discriminating between the thinking self and the Self;

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=2xV8xgWlZy0

With Love/ In Lak’ech
tim

[greybeard]

One thought I had to battle with is pointed to in "A Course in Miracles"
"Specialness is the last resort of the ego"
It was very easy to think that I had found something that others were in ignorance off. Then there were certain gifts that came with Kundalini awakening.
Some mystical experiences occurred.
Me liked the feeling of specialness and being the story teller.
Me as the ego is scared of not being.
I as I realise that death is a fallacy.
There is still a tug of war going on though it is now seen as "Of no importance"
I do what I do as best I can and leave all to "God"--- the fruits/end result are His.
Thanks Tim for your input.

Chris

[greybeard]

Quantum Communication

This documentary film by Producer, David Sereda, Quantum Communication, attempts to teach us how communication really works from the Quantum level and how this is connected to the Universal Laws of Attraction. How do we manifest our future Soul-Matches, Business Partners, Teachers, and how do we communicate with God? What is actually happening when we pray? How do we create an intelligent dialog with the creative force of the Universe to allow us to experience a Quantum leap in our own intelligence?

The way we manifest abundance in our lives is to awaken the genius within each one of us so that we can excel in our relationships, careers and super-learning to transform our lives and those around us. Discover how to master this in your life! This awakening of intelligence happens when we understand how Quantum Communication actually functions within each of us. Learn techniques to open this awareness within yourself to become a Fully-Actualized human being.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hb_BN0ITDPQ

[greybeard]

David R. Hawkins - What Kind Of Principles Can I Apply To My Life

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0fzsiddr94

Sir David Ramon Hawkins, M.D., Ph.D., affectionately called "Doc," died peacefully at home in Sedona, Arizona, on September 19, 2012, at the age of 85. He was born on June 3, 1927, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin; he had been a resident of Sedona since 1979.




He is survived by his wife Susan J. Hawkins of Sedona, step-daughter Sarah J. Humphrey (Josh Spradling), and step-granddaughter Evren L. Spradling of Peoria, Arizona.




Dr. Hawkins was renowned as a physician, author, lecturer, and researcher of consciousness. After serving in the U.S. Navy during WWII, he graduated from the Medical College of Wisconsin in 1953. For the next 25 years, he lived in New York, where his pioneering work as a psychiatrist brought major clinical breakthroughs, especially in the treatment of schizophrenia and alcoholism. His research findings were published widely in medical, scientific, and psychoanalytic journals. As Medical Director of the North Nassau Mental Health Center (1956--1980) and Director of Research at Brunswick Hospital (1968--1979) on Long Island, he had the largest practice in New York. Dr. Hawkins also served as a psychiatric advisor to Catholic, Protestant, and Buddhist monasteries. In 1973, he co-authored Orthomolecular Psychiatry with Nobel Laureate chemist Linus Pauling, initiating a new field within psychiatry and leading to appearances on The Today Show, The Barbara Walters Show, and The Mcneil/Leher News Hour.

Dr. Hawkins spent the last three decades of his life in Arizona, working to correlate the seemingly disparate domains of science and spirituality. In 1983, he established the Institute for Spiritual Research, a nonprofit organization dedicated to consciousness research. During the 1980s, his lectures at such events as the First National Conference on Addictions and Consciousness (1985) and Whole Life Expo (1986), both held in California, re-contextualized addiction by illuminating the underlying spiritual drive for inner peace and how to cultivate it apart from substances. During the 1990s, he served as the Chief of Staff at Mingus Mountain Estate Residential Treatment Center for adolescent girls in Prescott Valley and was the consulting psychiatrist for several recovery houses in Arizona.




In 1995, at the age of 68, he received a Ph.D. in Health and Human Services. That same year saw the publication of his book, Power vs. Force, translated into 25 languages, with over a million copies sold and evoking praise from such notables as Mother Teresa and Sam Walton. The book presents his trademarked "Map of Consciousness," now used by health professionals, university professors, government officials, and business executives worldwide. Many other books followed: The Eye of the I; I: Reality and Subjectivity; Truth vs. Falsehood; Transcending the Levels of Consciousness: The Stairway to Enlightenment; Discovery of the Presence of God: Devotional Nonduality; Reality, Spirituality and Modern Man; Healing and Recovery, Along the Path to Enlightenment; and Dissolving the Ego, Realizing the Self.

[greybeard]

"There is no 'you' that is watching and witnessing" ~ David R Hawkins

Dr Hawkins has been my main teacher for years
Chris

This segment is from the "Positionality & Duality: Transcending the Opposites" 2002 Lecture....The Way to God series
This is one of my favorite series....the 9th lecture of this particular series "Devotion" was actually the one lecture that had me head over heels in Love with Dr Hawkin's Heart.

You can grab yourself a copy of this particular lecture at the following source:

http://www.veritaspub.com/product_inf...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=ww1jt7hd2gk

[Mark]

Thank you Chris and Tim for your direct responses and everybody else for sharing your experiences and thoughts.

There is so much to consider when addressing this topic but the core of it seems clear. Attend to process and let life guide the way, as Gareth pointed out. Chris's comment on drifting in and out of consciousness typifies a large part of my experience in regards to mindfulness and what amounts to making the conscious decision, in the moment, to take on some of the old personality quirks and patterns in order to appear as if one is indeed the same person. Whether this is done to put others at ease or to slowly make manifest outwardly the inner shifts in perception I would guess are dependent upon each individual. For those, like me, who are in intimate relationships and who have small children still, relating to close family remains one of the primary considerations, while, at the same time, gently expressing core truths and living according to this most intimate of spiritual experiences becomes more and more the primary expression of the publicly accessible persona.

In consideration of Tim's comments regarding the experience of Satori/Kensho/Nirvana and the inability of those who have not experienced it to be able to relate to those who have seems to be the greatest barrier. It plays out everywhere and in everything. As Gareth also said, some friends tend to drift away once they determine that there has indeed been a fundamental shift in perspective and carriage. But also, the quality of conversation and interaction shifts and other friends and even strangers seem to be able to sense this difference and make their approach at a level of intimacy usually reserved for close or long acquaintance. This is an energetic awareness, a manifestation of a 6th sense, of auras interacting. Tim's comment in regards to making certain there is no attachment to outcome when engaging in these spur-of-the-moment discussions/sessions is one that I find paramount as well.

In American culture and perhaps Western culture in general there is a stigma in regards to the idea of Guru. Or even Teachers, as they are among the lowest-paid profession in our societies. Those who may 'have' something that others do not have that can in some way place them above others at least in the minds of those observing them acts to make them social martyrs of a sort, especially in extremely materially-oriented societies. Since those who have awakened in this way know intimately they are no better than others and that what they may have is what everyone can have, the recognition and realization that openly expressing their conscious awareness can make them targets - even in the Awake and Aware community - makes it regrettably necessary for some of them, especially those who wish to continue to lead relatively 'normal' lives, to continue to cultivate a measured silence, or as the old saying goes, "the lips of Hermes are closed".

The truth cannot be hidden for long. The auric output of the awakened seems to be palpable to energetically sensitive people. They can sense each other, immediately upon field interaction. Those oppositional to this state of being some of whom also possess empathic ability also seem to possess the capacity to know who to stay away from.

I find it important to be able to share these aspects of our shared reality in the spirit of openness and communal understanding. Consciousness is an infinite scale, we are all variable outputs along it, but the fact that we all traverse it simultaneously makes it both an individual and collective endeavor. I'm happy to share consciousness and quantum entanglement, and experience, as we co-create a record of a particular form of variegated consciousness evolution as exemplified by the Terran West at a very special time and space of becoming for the entire human family.

[Zampano]

King Salomon, one of the top most wealthy people ever existed (at that time) said: "I have seen all the things that are done under the sun;
all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind." One of many translations...

King Salomon was a very rich man, I mean very rich...huge amounts of all that bling-bling stuff. I assume that he was able to buy, hmmmm a lot!!
And he bought everything money could buy...

and wasnt satisfied!

So, there are many translations from one of his popular sayings...

I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit.

I observed every activity done on earth. My conclusion: all of it is pointless—like chasing after the wind.

I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

What is left?

[greybeard]

Good to see all this wisdom being presented and shared with humility.
Keep it coming, you do my heart good
Chris

[Zampano]

To get to your post rakhyt...

In consideration of Tim's comments regarding the experience of Satori/Kensho/Nirvana and the inability of those who have not experienced it to be able to relate to those who have seems to be the greatest barrier. It plays out everywhere and in everything

Yes...and it happens daily, at least what I can tell from people arround me, folks that are not interested in spirituality and stuff,
are experiencing individual events, which make them thinking.

They experienced it before, but didnt put too much value to it.
Whether you call it spiritual or not...there is something in the hay

[Rich]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
The auric output of the awakened seems to be palpable to energetically sensitive people. They can sense each other, immediately upon field interaction.

I don't know if that is true, would they immediately recognize each other?... I never met anyone after my spiritual awakenings or I simply wasn't aware of it!? I wonder what it would be like. (never been to any satsangs either).

I once met a master in a dream I was excited like a little kid, that man was so simple/humble yet I was awestruck.

[Mark]

Hi Zampano, the awakening events that a lot of people experience kind of follow an order.

I wrote quite a bit about it in a blog I wrote that I just posted here in support of this thread, rather than going the long route of laying out the entire discussion here. Awakening seems to follow after disenchantment occurs. Disenchantment with life as lived. With the daily grind, perhaps with Self and its expression in the world, maybe with family, friends, culture, politics, economics, etc. As knowledge is gained, there are two routes that one can go: on one route, some go the total cerebral path and become automatons of a sort, with a lot of knowledge of worldly realities, perhaps conspiratorial streams of reality, and get an overall sense that they are not privy to all that is truly going on. This path is marked by a lack of compassion, an intellectual detachment that sends the individual embarked upon it further down the road and even unto the esoteric place of spiritual awakening, but, because they lack compassion, it results in a dark awakening. Those who go the other way experience it in much the same order, but instead of being detached about it, they feel the compassion of the bodhisattva, their love and empathy take them to the spiritual road, but their heart-centered perception results in a light awakening instead. Two roads that are really the same roads, but perhaps you can say that they lead in different directions. There is "something in the hay", indeed. How it manifests will be different for those who bend down to smell it.

Hi EmEx, in my experience, they recognize levels of awakening in each other. It can be a meeting of the eyes or a verbal exchange, some form of connection that entangles two minds and souls in that instant in which it becomes immediately clear that there is a resonation between the two people. This is another thing that is difficult to describe, but perhaps it can be called a form of 'love at first sight', it can occur between all combinations of people. It may be as simple as an offhand comment that results in two people discovering they're both interested in conspiracies or ghosts and then going further to find out they share other interests as well, all of which are vibratory signs of a similar frequency shared in two bodies, interacting together like tuning forks.

That dream you had as a kid might have been more than that, EmEx. Do you remember more about it?

[greybeard]

Posted by EmEx (here)

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
The auric output of the awakened seems to be palpable to energetically sensitive people. They can sense each other, immediately upon field interaction.

I don't know if that is true, would they immediately recognize each other?... I never met anyone after my spiritual awakenings or I simply wasn't aware of it!? I wonder what it would be like. (never been to any satsangs either).

I once met a master in a dream I was excited like a little kid, that man was so simple/humble yet I was awestruck.

Hi Em Ex
Ive been lucky to meet a few enlightened beings-- they were very ordinary till they began to convey spiritual Truth.
The energy that they transmit also comes through their cds books etc.
Sometimes I find a particular post uplifting and that's it too.

Chris

[Rich]

Posted by Rahkyt (here)
That dream you had as a kid might have been more than that, EmEx. Do you remember more about it?

I was not a kid, I had that dream less than a year ago, not sure who it was, either way I felt I knew him.
It had the same reality as this 'here' it seemed.

How real something is always depends on where we look from doesn't it?!

[JohnEAngel]

according to Eckhart Tolle we cannot evolve or transcend without the ego. it is the challenge set before us in each life time. it is a game that we must play. we are stuck in this loop, and i respectfully say that in acknowledgement to The Source. until we do transcend our imperfect disposition we will continue on until we do.

[greybeard]

The Experience of No Self

What is this thing called "self"? Does it actually exist? In this deeply penetrating satsang on the central teaching of the Buddha, Adyashanti invites a direct investigation and experience of who we are. By recognizing our impersonal nature, we can discover the one reality that is beyond the imaginary self.

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=OQT6FWOmkOU

[greybeard]

Adyashanti-shift of perception



Beautiful satsang about shift in perception-from mind to heart...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=TRpD3-RXfoQ

[truthseekerdan]

Will share this "enlightening" documentary here with my dear friends...

Enjoy!

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=VmoRy7r-4Uw

[greybeard]

Thanks Dan
Wayne was a devotee of the late Ramesh Balsekar.
One day they both went to the races and never won a penny--- They both were of the opinion that enlightenment was not ll it was cracked up to be as they had not won anything.
Ramesh said another time that "If you have the choice to have a £million or enlightenment take the money as at least there is some one left to enjoy it."
At one point in time he was the President of the Bank of India.
However he loved to joke.
He was eluding to the fact that enlightenment is not a personal state as there is no individual left at the end of it.
You cant have Non duality and separate individual personages----What is left is "One without a second"
There is a unique awareness which is never lost but there is the knowing that in essence you are the same as the seeming other.
Hence Jesus advice to treat others as you would treat yourself.
Spiritualiity is full of paradox.
The enlightened say that "You are form and formless both and neither--- you are beyond definition in your true nature, which is God"

chris

[Rich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
"If you have the choice to have a £million or enlightenment take the money as at least there is some one left to enjoy it."

Dear Chris,

If you read what Masters have said that have been enlightened for 'lifetimes'
or those who have reached very high states, they talk quite differently
(of course this is based on my opinion about how high a state they have reached and you might not agree).

Enlightenment means (imo) coming close to the zero point
(when consciousness has become so subtle that it is barely noticable),
but after that we are free to experience anything.

Christ said, there are greater states of Illumination after we leave this
earth and he also said, no one can enter the void.
Only logical because if that was to happen life would cease to exist.

Ramana called it 'Ocean of Bliss'.
Nityananda said, to a devotee; all you need is inside of you in its fullness, meditate,
it is so beautiful so interesting.
Papaji said, beyond enlightenment there is Love.
Lester Levenson said to go free means not just to be free of the world, but
the freedom to do whatever you want IN the world. Furthermore he said you
will not lose anything, only gain.
Bashar said, 'I am' is the closest you can come to non-existence but you can
never not exist.
Bashar talks a lot about being yourself by following your excitement.
Jac O'Keffee said, subtle concepts are being refined after enlightenment.
Byron Katie said, even if we speak of beyond mind it is still mind
(we can contemplate what is beyond [a great meditation btw!]
but we can never know or experience what is beyond.)

All just loosely paraphrasing from memory.

The way I see it is: Enlightenment is the first step after that we creatively
and consciously create the most beautiful individual expression of the
Self/God/Source that we can come up with, which will then be based on Love.


I wanted to express a different point of view, because the idea that life is
over after enlightenment might scare people off.