+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 34 FirstFirst 1 9 19 34 LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 663

Thread: Transgender issues

  1. Link to Post #161
    Avalon Member Kryztian's Avatar
    Join Date
    16th September 2012
    Posts
    3,487
    Thanks
    23,704
    Thanked 29,413 times in 3,425 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Hi there everyone,

    There are some very great sensitivities here for those who are transgender -
    This isn't about offending transgender people ... this is about human decency.

    I can't believe this thread is up almost a whole day and not one other person has had the backbone to call out the perverse lies and distortions here to used to justify violence against a small minority who have been deficated on by the world at large.

    Please retire my membership. I no longer wish to be part of the cesspool that is Project Avalon.

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Kryztian For This Post:

    Constance (27th April 2019), Denise/Dizi (27th April 2019), enfoldedblue (27th April 2019), Inaiá (2nd June 2019), johnf (1st May 2019), loungelizard (29th April 2019)

  3. Link to Post #162
    United States Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    24th September 2014
    Location
    Appalachia
    Posts
    2,551
    Thanks
    9,947
    Thanked 13,078 times in 2,355 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    So "leftist" institutions trump "feminists activist" ones? This is an interesting take on the appeal to authority argument. It sounds like any institution which rethinks the roles of women or trans people must be suspiciously left and feminist where you are from. Actually, since these are statistical studies, and the arguments are about numbers, data and methodology, which involved reading them, but I won't bother you with those details when you are so busy fantasizing about the details of transgender genetalia.
    What I meant, and said in my post, is that UCLA (University of California) is arguing against its own interests. Also called declaration against interest in a court of law. It means someone is giving testimony that goes against their general position, which tends to give that testimony more credibility than simply repeating one's own biases.

    Talking about the numbers is fine, and as I also just pointed out, the survey was of about 6000 transgenders, which the authors of the study say constitute the largest sample to date (as of January 2014 anyway).

    Quote
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    You should be comparing to rates of normal, psychologically-healthy people, or at least the national average of 4.6% that I cited above.
    People who commit suicide are, by definition, not part of any statistic of "normal, psychologically-healthy people".
    That's exactly my point. And nearly half of transgenders are attempting suicide. That's not normal.

    Quote WTF are "normal people"??? This is not a term people used in the social sciences that has any meaning. This is a term used in barbaric societies to separate the "normal people" from the "weirdos" and the "queers" before they throw stones or tie them to the back of a pickup truck.
    I took two college psychology/sociology courses and they do in fact talk about norms and what is considered normal in various societies. It can be subjective from one society to another, but sociologists do in fact recognize social and cultural norms, even in Western countries. I'm sure you can find resources online about this.

    At any rate, you just said yourself that suicidal people are not part of a normal, healthy demographic, which should be obvious. There are problems with suicidal people that need to be addressed by counselors or therapists. I hope we can at least agree on that much. The next question is what kind of therapy/help they need, and what they need to be told. I don't believe what they need to be told is, "You just need to cut your genitals off, and then you'll feel better." Also, a psychologist isn't going to tell someone to wait for society to change to suit their own values before they can feel better. That's not a solution, either.

    Quote
    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Let's be very frank about this. In the case of men, we are talking about men who have their penis .....
    Thanks for all the details, but they are unimportant to me
    Well they are of core importance to people who actually undergo this kind of surgery. If you ignore the reality of what they are doing to their bodies, and living with on a daily basis, you are not really going to be able to understand what is going through these peoples' heads, and so you cannot truly empathize with them. If you just stay at a distance and ignore what they are doing, that is not really being empathetic to them or caring about them in any way.

    Quote The fact is that people who undergo these operations all know what completely what they are going through in detail and have this explained by medical people and with their therapist.
    Maybe so, but a tremendous number of them still have regrets after it's over, and they can never put their penis back on if they later change their mind. It's permanent, though their opinions about what they have done to themselves may not be. That's one more reason why they really need to see counselors or psychologists who aren't actively encouraging them to do these things.

    Quote I'm promoting? I'm telling people to become transgender? Again, this is your imagination speaking. I've never done such a thing, nor am I about blocking people's choices or trying to distort who people are or used lies and distortions to encourage violence and degradation against them, as you do.
    Suicide is an actual form of violence, and if you have actual empathy for these people, then that's what you should want to reduce. I've never seen studies showing that pointing out the real medical and psychological issues with transgendered people causes them somehow to be raped and murdered at an increased rate. If anything, trying to raise awareness of this issues is trying to get them the help they need.

    And I do think that defending these reassignment surgeries like it's some kind of religion is de facto promoting it, because at the very least you are clearly uncomfortable with criticism of what these people are doing, and feel the need to call me "hateful," etc. etc., when all I'm trying to raise awareness of is the extreme physical and mental trauma these people go through just because society has convinced them that they were somehow "born in the wrong body," as if non-physical spirits have biological gender or whatever the pseudo-religious theory underlying this nonsense is.

    Quote Really, the reality you paint sounds like something right out of the movie "Deliverance". If the movie ever gets remade, you might want to copyright your "rotting vagina monologue". I could just see a scene with dueling banjos playing in the background as someone lasciviously proclaims your detailed account of genitalia and the good ole boys get a twinkle in their as they think about raping "trannies."
    Well I'm sorry that you have such bigoted, Hollywood-fed ideas about the 25 million inhabitants of Appalachia, but I can assure you that no one here is fantasizing about those wounds, and there's also nothing wrong with banjo music.




    Quote Again, your imagination has taken you to a place 100% at odds with reality. More and more, modern psychologist, social workers and other therapist consult with people considering this surgery and help them carry through their decision.
    Here's something else that's becoming more common to see:



    Nothing wrong with this either, right?


    Edit: The two posts above were made before I submitted this. The usual hillbilly stereotypes notwithstanding (a longstanding thing coming out of Hollywood, in fact, like modern bigotry against Southerners in general), I can understand that people think they are being compassionate by essentially encouraging these kinds of things to continue advancing in society. I'm not taking any of this personally and my purpose isn't to offend, either, but if we actually do care about people, and society in general, then we have to really consider what transgendered people are going through and how we should best address these very real problems. It's not an easy subject.
    Last edited by A Voice from the Mountains; 27th April 2019 at 01:24.

  4. Link to Post #163
    Avalon Member Gemma13's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th May 2011
    Location
    Western Australia
    Language
    Australian
    Age
    59
    Posts
    2,568
    Thanks
    8,947
    Thanked 17,554 times in 2,528 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Hi there everyone,

    There are some very great sensitivities here for those who are transgender -
    This isn't about offending transgender people ... this is about human decency.

    I can't believe this thread is up almost a whole day and not one other person has had the backbone to call out the perverse lies and distortions here to used to justify violence against a small minority who have been deficated on by the world at large.

    Please retire my membership. I no longer wish to be part of the cesspool that is Project Avalon.

    Oh please don’t do that Kryztian.

    In my family circle I am witnessing perspectives and voices exactly like yours and A Voice From the Mountains (AVFTM).

    I can’t tell you enough how extremely helpful this thread has been so far.

    You and AVFTM have engaged with each other from polar extremes in an intelligent and resourceful manner with your opinions, experiences and references.

    Please don’t walk away – but I understand if you feel you have to.

    It’s just that if you could both continue without feeling offended by each other, and are able to continue in an objective manner, you are providing a powerful tool for many of us currently experiencing this confronting topic amongst the different “cultures” of our loved ones.

    I wish both of you peace, understanding and compassion.


    And a big thank you to other contributors.

  5. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Gemma13 For This Post:

    Alanantic (29th April 2019), Bluegreen (27th April 2019), bojancan (1st May 2019), Denise/Dizi (27th April 2019), drneglector (1st May 2019), Frenchy (29th April 2019), Ivanhoe (27th April 2019), johnf (1st May 2019), Kryztian (29th April 2019), loungelizard (29th April 2019), Valerie Villars (27th April 2019)

  6. Link to Post #164
    United States Avalon Member conk's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th March 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Language
    Southern English
    Posts
    3,937
    Thanks
    11,067
    Thanked 11,145 times in 2,998 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    Quote Posted by Constance (here)
    Hi there everyone,

    There are some very great sensitivities here for those who are transgender -
    This isn't about offending transgender people ... this is about human decency.

    I can't believe this thread is up almost a whole day and not one other person has had the backbone to call out the perverse lies and distortions here to used to justify violence against a small minority who have been deficated on by the world at large.

    Please retire my membership. I no longer wish to be part of the cesspool that is Project Avalon.
    Overwrought and overly dramatic. You seem to find assault in the simplest of questions and insult with judgement when none was proffered.
    The quantum field responds not to what we want; but to who we are being. Dr. Joe Dispenza

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to conk For This Post:

    johnf (1st May 2019), XelNaga (3rd May 2019)

  8. Link to Post #165
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    7th July 2016
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,549
    Thanks
    5,933
    Thanked 5,372 times in 1,413 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)

    This isn't about offending transgender people ... this is about human decency.

    I can't believe this thread is up almost a whole day and not one other person has had the backbone to call out the perverse lies and distortions here to used to justify violence against a small minority who have been deficated on by the world at large.

    Please retire my membership. I no longer wish to be part of the cesspool that is Project Avalon.
    Kryztian. Geez. I hope you come back after calming down. PA has an abundance of "decent humans", if you care to look

    I'd just like to say that I think the mods are doing a mighty fine job of moderating the "cesspool". If the issue is in the video (which I did not watch), I'd also like to say that I don't think it's fair for moderators to watch every single video that gets posted.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to petra For This Post:

    Frenchy (29th April 2019), johnf (1st May 2019)

  10. Link to Post #166
    UK Avalon Member Frenchy's Avatar
    Join Date
    17th November 2014
    Location
    On the edge of the Atlantic
    Posts
    322
    Thanks
    434
    Thanked 1,006 times in 285 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Editted : Gemma 13 - Oh please don’t do that Kryztian.

    In my family circle I am witnessing perspectives and voices exactly like yours and A Voice From the Mountains (AVFTM).

    I can’t tell you enough how extremely helpful this thread has been so far.

    You and AVFTM have engaged with each other from polar extremes in an intelligent and resourceful manner with your opinions, experiences and references.

    Please don’t walk away – but I understand if you feel you have to.

    It’s just that if you could both continue without feeling offended by each other, and are able to continue in an objective manner, you are providing a powerful tool for many of us currently experiencing this confronting topic amongst the different “cultures” of our loved ones.

    I wish both of you peace, understanding and compassion.


    And a big thank you to other contributors.
    ****************************************************************************

    Compliment's Gemma 13 ; occaisionally we see level-headed comments such as yours here.
    It's a pleasure for me to see an 'Olive Branch ', offered to opposing P.o.V. proponents !

    You've very eloquently centered upon the fact that P.A. has value to each individual here, [ Member or Visitor///
    Last edited by Frenchy; 29th April 2019 at 19:19.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frenchy For This Post:

    Gemma13 (16th June 2019), johnf (1st May 2019)

  12. Link to Post #167
    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2017
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,716
    Thanks
    26,649
    Thanked 13,481 times in 1,693 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    I don't at all think that the topic, or even the subject matter being debated, was the issue with this thread going so badly. I think it was the vulgar language that painted an ugly picture in the minds of those reading it, of what one poster imagined in their own minds, when thinking about this issue.

    And with the way it was written, I took it to be extremely offensive as well. To me it sounded like this person was reducing a living breathing human being, to a nasty description of a disfigured and rotting body part. And it came out almost with a sense of anger when I read it. (writing such things can lead to many interpretations)

    THOSE things are what the individuals, that do decide to look into the procedures are facing, and that is between them and their Dr.s. I didn't at all feel it added anything productive to the conversation but shock value.. And a sense that the person writing it perhaps see's transgenders in this way.. That they're horribly disfigured and somehow diseased, as they later did write that they also tend to have more std's. What does that have at all to do with the topic being discussed? If we are manufacturing this as a population?

    To me, that did border on hate speech. We are talking about human beings here, and using statistics, and offensive descriptions of mutilated genitalia to paint ugly pictures, while not at all addressing even the topic of the thread itself. Why do people do this, are we creating this? Are people truly being shoved into the wrong containers?

    We are on a site where people freely speak about "Walk in's", "reincarnation", and everything else under the sun, but when this subject came up, rather than deal with it in a delicate nature, it went to statistics, and agendas, not at all touching on the personal nature of the topic itself. Or even some of those other "Enlightened" issues that we address on other threads. Could they be put in the wrong "container?"

    These are human beings that we are talking about.. Having some serious issues in their lives that they're facing.. A statistic isn't going to matter when they're considering such things.. And I think that is why the thread didn't at all go well. When I came upon the thread, I found it to be quite shocking, we are not discussing military overspending here, and data, and dollars, this isn't about toilet seats and paying $700 for one, it is sensitive and delicate, especially for those living it, or those who know people who are struggling with it.

    And the topic of the thread was a decision that one transgender individual had to go through and their thoughts after their journey. I am sure everyone going through that, would have a stance on the matter. Yet it didn't at all reflect in the conversations playing out under the original post. It went to who is supporting the agenda to push this narrative, and not at all on the topic itself. Heartbreaking to watch that play out honestly. I do hope Kryztian comes back. I saw what they saw in the thread. And I felt the same way.

    I looked at the thread this way.. What if a transgender saw the thread headline, and thought, WOW ok.. Some intelligent conversation about the issues I am dealing with, and I came to find that? I would be horrified. Not only that, if my children saw that, and they knew I posted here would they think I condoned that kind of speech? It is kept and it is recorded.. Do I want my name anywhere near that? I really thought about that. I check the thread daily hoping someone removes those posts.. Because I realize that merely participating in a site that allows that, suggests I support it.

    Rather than leave the site, I decided to state my opinions so that everyone who comes across this post knows exactly what I think about it.. I love this site, and I don't want to leave.. So the best way to address it? Is to state as the mods do above, when they do not necessarily endorse someone else's views. I can't change other people's behavior but I can make sure that other's know where I stand on such things. And I felt I needed to make sure people knew I didn't at all agree with this.. Because it does look like it is going to be left here.
    Last edited by Denise/Dizi; 29th April 2019 at 21:36.

  13. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Denise/Dizi For This Post:

    Forest Denizen (30th April 2019), Inaiá (2nd June 2019), johnf (1st May 2019), loungelizard (29th April 2019), Uncle Danny (27th May 2021)

  14. Link to Post #168
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Quote Suicide attempts among trans men
    (46%) and trans women (42%) were
    slightly higher than the full sample (41%).
    Cross-dressers assigned male at birth
    have the lowest reported prevalence of
    suicide attempts among gender identity
    groups (21%).
    https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...port-Final.pdf

    .

    Regarding the Williams Institute study: AVFTM, you appear to want to dismiss the role that anti-transgender bias plays in suicidal thoughts and behaviour.
    The study to which you refer clearly states that “Respondents who experienced rejection by family and friends, discrimination, victimization, or violence
    had elevated prevalence of suicide attempts”.


    and

    “Based on prior research and the findings of this report, we find that mental health factors and experiences of harassment, discrimination, violence and rejection
    may interact to produce a marked vulnerability to suicidal behavior in transgender and gender non-conforming individuals. Two interrelated
risk factors appear to be
    most strongly related to suicidal behavior among transgender and gender non-conforming adults: rejection, discrimination,
victimization, and violence related to
    anti-transgender bias and serious mental health conditions. In this study, we found a markedly high prevalence of lifetime suicide attempts among respondents who
    reported experiencing stressors related to anti-transgender bias, and among those who reported having a mental health condition that substantially affects a major life activity. "

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (29th April 2019), Forest Denizen (30th April 2019), Inaiá (2nd June 2019), johnf (1st May 2019), Kryztian (24th May 2019)

  16. Link to Post #169
    Avalon Member loungelizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    25th November 2013
    Posts
    390
    Thanks
    2,042
    Thanked 1,074 times in 318 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    No straight person I've ever known has ever had any inclination whatsoever to rape a transgendered person, nor murder them, so, outside of modern university programming, I don't know where you could be getting these ideas.
    Has it occurred to you that perhaps your experience is somewhat limited?
    Sexual assault of transgender people- particularly in certain countries - is a common occurrence.

    Nearly half (47%) of respondents have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lifetime.
    https://www.transequality.org/sites/...port-FINAL.PDF

    US Transgender Survery 2015

  17. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to loungelizard For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (29th April 2019), Forest Denizen (30th April 2019), Inaiá (2nd June 2019), johnf (1st May 2019), Kryztian (29th April 2019)

  18. Link to Post #170
    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    22nd January 2011
    Location
    From 100 Mile House ;-)
    Language
    English
    Age
    50
    Posts
    9,394
    Thanks
    29,778
    Thanked 45,445 times in 8,541 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by Kryztian (here)
    ...

    This isn't about offending transgender people ... this is about human decency.

    I can't believe this thread is up almost a whole day and not one other person has had the backbone to call out the perverse lies and distortions here to used to justify violence against a small minority who have been deficated on by the world at large.
    ...
    deleted ... that came across not how I intended it. Good thing I re-read it a few times.
    Last edited by DeDukshyn; 29th April 2019 at 23:56.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DeDukshyn For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (1st May 2019), johnf (1st May 2019)

  20. Link to Post #171
    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th January 2011
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    1,211
    Thanks
    8,460
    Thanked 6,363 times in 1,115 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    I have seen the same trans woman on two different talk shows with perhaps two years
    elapsing between the two appearances. On the first appearance she was very ecstatic about her

    experience, and appeared fairly happy about the whole thing, and not defensive of her decision.
    If there was anything I would consider to be the least maladjusted about her mood it would be a slight

    touch of a manic attitude.

    On the second she seemed more sober, and still pretty happy and well adjusted. Towards the end of the show
    a man stood up and asked if she could actually go back in time and not transition, would she.
    At this point her shoulders relaxed and her voice changed into that of a person who has had to accept a rather painful truth about themselves, and
    has come to a much deeper understanding of themselves than they have previously had. I have seen many examples of this sort of thing by spending lots of time in spiritual circles, as well as my own counseling sessions, on both sides of the room.
    What she said next is that if she knew then what she knew now she would not undergoe the operation and transition process.

    And the reason why is that she had seen on a deep level that there was a reason why they had been born male, and that it would have been better for them to continue experiencing life as a male to reach an acceptance of themselves than it was to go through the process and find out this truth in a now altered body.
    So after having shared all that I must say that I do not think that this person could have learned this new state of being in any other way than they did. The man in the op, at the time that video was filmed could not have learned a deeper acceptance and responsibility for his own ideas emotions and behaviors than he had at that time. On can talk about the enabling actions of his Aunt, or the people that put him up on the table in front of the camera, and their motives as
    well, but none of us are him, and we all have our lessons to learn as well, and in each moment we can find a deeper acceptance of where we are on any given issue or pass that moment by as well. I can not judge either of these people, but can only use others experiences to deepen my own, and try to go a step further on my own path. May we all use this thread to do a bit of that now.


    John
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

  21. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to johnf For This Post:

    Denise/Dizi (1st May 2019), Forest Denizen (1st May 2019), Hervé (1st May 2019), Iancorgi (1st May 2019), Rosemarie (1st May 2019), waree (1st May 2019)

  22. Link to Post #172
    Scotland Avalon Member
    Join Date
    16th February 2012
    Posts
    2,035
    Thanks
    2,282
    Thanked 9,410 times in 1,804 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by conk (here)
    A question arises. Why does such a tiny segment of society, said to be .04%, gain so much political clout? I certainly have empathy for a person so confused. They have every right to their decisions and every right to be free of our judgement, but what authority is pushing so hard? And to what end or purpose? There are other groups of greater numbers more deserving of attention or help.
    They are distracting us while they try and set up their technocracy from China. Sesame Credit AKA Black Mirror. Already 1 million people on domestic travel bans.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Daozen For This Post:

    onawah (1st May 2019)

  24. Link to Post #173
    Japan Unsubscribed
    Join Date
    21st March 2019
    Posts
    315
    Thanks
    218
    Thanked 609 times in 227 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)

    Nearly half of transgenders try to commit suicide.

    Quote Suicide attempts among trans men
    (46%) and trans women (42%) were
    slightly higher than the full sample (41%).
    Cross-dressers assigned male at birth
    have the lowest reported prevalence of
    suicide attempts among gender identity
    groups (21%).
    https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.e...port-Final.pdf

    That's an enormous rate of suicide attempts, more than any other demographic group I know of, including historical black slaves in the US.

    That's a very far cry from 99% + of them being happy, or even mentally healthy at all. They also have incredible rates of STD infection and lots of other issues to deal with. I could post the statistics on those too.
    Absolutely. They are very unhappy people, period. Modern education, instead of giving hope to children, has deprived them of seeking happiness in life. It's ridiculous to claim the suicide tendency is only due to violence against the trans.


    Quote Posted by A Voice from the Mountains (here)
    Neo-conservatives, by the way, are also much more friendly to promoting LGBT stuff than traditionalist Christian conservatives are.
    "Neo-con" is euphemism for Zionists and we know that.
    Go figure who is promoting "trans"

  25. Link to Post #174
    United States Avalon Member Denise/Dizi's Avatar
    Join Date
    2nd July 2017
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,716
    Thanks
    26,649
    Thanked 13,481 times in 1,693 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    Quote Posted by johnf (here)
    And the reason why is that she had seen on a deep level that there was a reason why they had been born male, and that it would have been better for them to continue experiencing life as a male to reach an acceptance of themselves than it was to go through the process and find out this truth in a now altered body.
    John
    WOW.. That was a profound observation here. I think we ALL are trying to muddle through life trying to reach an acceptance of ourselves, whether we are too ugly, we get our feelings hurt too much, we think this or that, always something else in our environment that makes us question ourselves... This issue his on MANY things.. But on the area of "ENGINEERING IT"? This is my opinion....

    I think that has a lot to do with society as a whole, trying to mold individuals into a standard, when the truth is, this is an incredibly rich and diverse planet, in so many ways. The flora, fauna, the cultures, species, activities, and the gifts that each one of us possess.

    The minute we begin telling people to behave THIS way, or THAT way, because we have established what is NORMAL.. we run the risk of creating a ton of chaos into our environment and that battle has probably been playing out since the beginning of time here, with each civilization that rises and falls..

    We don't celebrate what people have to offer, we determine what they become, based upon their ability to pay for the proper letters after their names, and if they can't afford to follow their dreams, they're forced into a miserable job doing something they hate. Never at all allowing them to celebrate who they are and their true gifts. And we start this at a very very early age by grooming our children to fit into the social expected norm, before they even go to school. "Don't do that, people are looking" kind of thing..

    When I am dealing with issues of incompatibility with others, I struggle because I know I have no desire to try to change anyone, they are their own unique person. To do so, wouldn't be honoring their journey, so I try to alter my reactions to such things. But I am fully aware that most don't even give life, or individuals that much thought.

    Rather than try to change people, I try to just be me, and be the change I wish to see. Some see that and they recognize it for what it is, and they too, openly begin to do the same thing. Rather than tap dance around social standards and norms. The truth is, society itself is creating all of the issues that were now addressing, for merely participating in the underlying structure. There is always a solution to a problem if it is addressed properly, without causing such massive conflict within a population.

    Why are these people not feeling good enough to begin with? Did they not get enough positive reinforcement as children? And I am not just talking about transgenders. Look at all of the kids cutting themselves, taking drugs, drinking.. Do you think farmers did that 400 years ago? They got their worth in the reward of their efforts, not some standard someone else imposed upon them. The standards we are shoving down their throats are so great that they're not at all allowed to even express themselves or even discover who they even truly are.

    We are struggling with loving ourselves when we are told all day, everyday, that we MUST do something to please someone else, the bottom dollar, the boss, the principal, the police, the tax man, the beauty standard.. This itself implies that we are never going to be good enough. With so many things we must FIX.. With age does comes the realization that perhaps the struggle wasn't at all with themselves, but the unrealistic expectations of society that we willingly place upon ourselves.

    The more people, and the more advanced things become, the more we need more standards.. More structure, more expectations of compliance to be a puppet to fit in. And we groom our kids from birth to NOT celebrate their individualism.. We are grooming individuality out of our population, and we are replacing it with broken people filling a spot in some structure that WE created. Causing them a lifetime of WORK just trying to discover who they even are.. They're merely struggling to hold onto that, without even knowing that is what they're doing... So they feel that they're "Different" in some way, and they focus on that.. They question it, and begin making assumptions that they need to change somehow to fit the norm.. (Not all, but I bet a LOT of people realize this later).. Completely overlooking the obvious, that life is to be celebrated and lived and nurtured.

    Most people are unhappy, their vacations the only time that they get to live life on their terms. Their days off riddled with obligations they must meet.. It truly is a shame. I believe it is up to those who recognize this to remind others, to teach the kids, you are OK, and while this is all playing out around you? BE YOU.. You ARE worthy, you are enough, you are celebrated. Perhaps that will grow.. Rather than become the reason our society collapses..

    Oddly enough, the Bible even says.. that our struggles will be with principalities.. and wickedness in high places, or something along those lines.. It is the structure itself that is creating these issues, but it is our fault if we do not recognize this and fix it. Make no mistake about it, it is a battle, over how we wish to live. And the fallout doesn't affect the structure but those wonderfully beautiful and diverse people trying to maintain it.

    These are just my opinion on the engineering aspect to it. I think w ARE doing it.. But if you are aware of it, it can be altered..

  26. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Denise/Dizi For This Post:

    Inaiá (2nd June 2019), Kryztian (24th May 2019), loungelizard (2nd May 2019)

  27. Link to Post #175
    United States Avalon Member johnf's Avatar
    Join Date
    11th January 2011
    Location
    Oregon, USA
    Posts
    1,211
    Thanks
    8,460
    Thanked 6,363 times in 1,115 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    There are layers and layers to what drives our personalities. Really we are the only ones who can deal with these things within ourselves, most people who are legally qualified to deal with these universal issues that all of us have are extremely controlled themselves, the nature of that control is basically a consensus of troubled minds, that has found a comfort zone within a certain number of mental constructs. Humanity is slowly letting go of these things, and many of us are looking for tools that lead us into
    the larger area of the unknown. Looking for people and institutions to blame for these things I am convinced is a complete waste of time. I have spent a lot of time in my life looking for tools to help me settle into these layers of discomfort within me, and I have found many along the way that seem to have gone farther than me. In the case of the trans woman's story I saw shared on tv about 24 years ago I think I witnessed a triumph in one individuals life dealing with something at least as large and complex as my own issues with feeling like I do not belong on this planet, well those feelings behind that thought are real, and in my times of not dealing with them, and using false methods in dealing with them, I came close to ending my life because I didn't feel accepted by others. Well, not sure what happened, but all that inner anguish just went away when I made direct contact with what I actually wanted, and that was to face my own ideas and emotions, and over the years I have had various lessons about accepting others as they, and realizing what is my business and what is not. As we move ahead there are more and more Doctors and psychologists using the principles of mindfullness in dealing with our traumas, and it seems that there is no one set of tools that work for everyone. Now that last idea is why I tend to spend a lot of time on this forum as well as other places looking for various tools to look inward, and deal with what is in there. What we find when we do that is that we are bigger than we ever thought, and we also find everyone else.


    John
    "I am fascinated by religion. (That's a completely different thing from believing in it!)" Douglas Adams

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to johnf For This Post:

    loungelizard (2nd May 2019)

  29. Link to Post #176
    United States Avalon Member Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    24th January 2011
    Location
    journeying to the end of the night
    Age
    46
    Posts
    5,777
    Thanks
    35,699
    Thanked 50,307 times in 5,692 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues



    The thread title is the title of the video that I found scrolling yahoo news. I've decided to leave it as is. Although, it could just as easily read 'Argentine Man Attempting to Play On Woman's Professional Team' and it would actually be much more accurate.

    I'm not trying to be polarizing or unfeeling. This thread isn't really intended to discuss our opinions on alleged differences between sex and gender, or the notion of "identifying" as this or that. This thread is about cold hard biology.

    One can make the argument that gender is fluid. One can make that argument because if you are accepting of the transgender doctrine that's laid out, gender and sex are not the same, and gender identifications are subjective. I think that's all highly questionable, but fair enough.

    Biology, on the other hand, is not fluid. Anyone residing on this earth that is currently sane knows this to be a fact.

    I was moved by this short video. I do have a heart. The trans woman in question seems like a lovely person. Her journey was no doubt an emotionally treacherous one, and it was really heartwarming to see the loving and supporting relationship she has with her mother and particularly her teammates and coaches. It brought a smile to my face.

    But this is where compassion can blind us, in my view. If she is ultimately allowed to remain on the team, it actually sets a very dangerous precedent. Compassion is admirable, but truth really needs to be our highest value

    And the truth is that this trans woman is really a biological man. No one can deny that. And inserting men into women's sports has all kinds of not so good ramifications. Men have all kinds of physical advantages, even ones who are dressing and identifying as females. This is self evident. I'd encourage any women who might disagree to assemble an all female football team and go challenge the Green Bay Packers. Maybe 2 of you would make it out alive. I'm not going out of my way to sound violent...that's just a fact.

    The compassion we feel for the trans woman here must also be extended to the women she is competing against. It hardly seems fair for them. Perhaps this particular trans woman won't have clear physical advantages that set her apart, but ones that follow her surely will eventually. What then? What if trans women start dominating women's sports? We're really playing with fire here, I think

    Last edited by Mike; 15th February 2020 at 03:36.

  30. The Following 18 Users Say Thank You to Mike For This Post:

    AutumnW (15th February 2020), Bill Ryan (15th February 2020), ByTheNorthernSea (15th February 2020), ClearWater (17th February 2020), DeeMetrios (15th February 2020), Denise/Dizi (15th February 2020), Dennis Leahy (15th February 2020), Franny (15th February 2020), Gracy (15th February 2020), Innocent Warrior (15th February 2020), Ioneo (15th February 2020), Kryztian (15th February 2020), Mark (Star Mariner) (15th February 2020), Soda (15th February 2020), Strat (17th February 2020), TelosianEmbrace (17th February 2020), Tintin (15th February 2020), Wind (15th February 2020)

  31. Link to Post #177
    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd June 2017
    Location
    Project Avalon library
    Language
    English
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,447
    Thanks
    64,674
    Thanked 46,602 times in 5,414 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    It's interesting that you posted this, today.

    Quite a few hours ago this whole transgender issue flashed across my mind, and I got to weighing it up.

    My take on incarnation, and reincarnation, which just about every one of us is experiencing, for real, is something along these lines: the machine of the physical (your human form) is being readied for your arrival; the already arranged deal is that you inhabit that physical form at just the right time with an already agreed gender assignment.

    You choose that from the very word go; it's also kind of already agreed, too.

    My view may not be terribly popular, but, transgenderism is a lifestyle choice. We have the technological skill to surgically change someone, but, that was not what you agreed to partake in at the point of incarnation. I don't, with an honest heart, believe or subscribe to the idea that male or female beings incarnate so extraordinarily haphazardly as to need reassignment.

    Mistakes may happen, and do (stillbirths for example - the soul landing timing within the body/machine isn't spot on sometimes) , but, getting the gender wrong from the get go? No. I'm not buying that for a moment.

    It's too convenient, and lazy, and dishonest often, to protest gender when you're living in a time when being able to 'switch' is possible.

    Landing in the wrong gender body is extraordinarily unlikely to happen - anything that may later contradict that is likely a socially engineered contrivance.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

  32. The Following 12 Users Say Thank You to Tintin For This Post:

    AutumnW (15th February 2020), Bill Ryan (15th February 2020), ByTheNorthernSea (15th February 2020), Denise/Dizi (15th February 2020), Dennis Leahy (15th February 2020), Franny (15th February 2020), Gracy (15th February 2020), Kryztian (15th February 2020), Mark (Star Mariner) (15th February 2020), Mike (15th February 2020), Pam (15th February 2020), Soda (15th February 2020)

  33. Link to Post #178
    Canada Avalon Member
    Join Date
    4th November 2012
    Posts
    3,020
    Thanks
    5,475
    Thanked 13,120 times in 2,678 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    I have a trans woman friend who would agree with you, as I do. Still, I feel I could beat Chelsea Manning Indian arm wrestling!

  34. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to AutumnW For This Post:

    Bill Ryan (15th February 2020), ByTheNorthernSea (15th February 2020), Denise/Dizi (15th February 2020), Dennis Leahy (15th February 2020), Gracy (15th February 2020), Kryztian (15th February 2020), Mike (15th February 2020), Tintin (15th February 2020)

  35. Link to Post #179
    Australia Avalon Member DeeMetrios's Avatar
    Join Date
    20th August 2013
    Age
    60
    Posts
    280
    Thanks
    2,695
    Thanked 1,324 times in 229 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    The Transgender World Cup may one day be a highlight in the Soccer Calendar .....

  36. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to DeeMetrios For This Post:

    AutumnW (15th February 2020), Bill Ryan (15th February 2020), Denise/Dizi (15th February 2020), Dennis Leahy (15th February 2020), Kryztian (15th February 2020), Mike (15th February 2020), TelosianEmbrace (17th February 2020), Tintin (15th February 2020)

  37. Link to Post #180
    UK Moderator/Librarian/Administrator Tintin's Avatar
    Join Date
    3rd June 2017
    Location
    Project Avalon library
    Language
    English
    Age
    54
    Posts
    5,447
    Thanks
    64,674
    Thanked 46,602 times in 5,414 posts

    Default Re: Transgender issues

    I worked with an extraordinarily talented professor in medical education who had transgendered (is that even a word?) and another who became 'Kate' after being 'Ken'.

    The professor was a huge fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer; even wrote a paper citing said. I admire your spirit Autumn, but, could you manage, or arm wrestle, a vampire slayer?
    Last edited by Tintin; 15th February 2020 at 01:46.
    “If a man does not keep pace with [fall into line with] his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” - Thoreau

  38. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Tintin For This Post:

    AutumnW (15th February 2020), Bill Ryan (15th February 2020), Denise/Dizi (15th February 2020), Dennis Leahy (15th February 2020), Kryztian (15th February 2020), Mike (15th February 2020), Pam (15th February 2020)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 34 FirstFirst 1 9 19 34 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts