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Thread: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

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    Mexico Avalon Member cuitlahuac's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    I think Hubbard was a genius in this... he was a wordsmith of the highest caliber... he really figured out "the system" in a way... (just like Phillip K Dick was having premonitions of what the matrix was decade ahead of everyone else...) for that he is brilliant... and then he used it to create his own system... for his own gain... just calling it what it is.... no doubt the man is brilliant... the best cons usually are...
    Oh, yeah, I don't doubt the "auditing" sessions has its "effects" giving a sense of progress and possible "achievable goals" such as "Clear" or OT Level X,Y,Z etc ... BUT IMHE unless the underlying sense of "self", the "I" or the "Ego" is addressed then I cannot see how it is anything except for an "Ego Trip" with the allure of "Super Powers " ...

    Just saying
    Listen to the Philadelphia Doctorate Course taped lectures (1952) or Read the books published in the mid 50's to know how the "self", the "I" or the "Ego" (the spiritual being) is addressed and explained.
    Oh, thank you but perhaps I have found what I was looking for though in an indirect manner

    From : "Volume I of the Technical Bulletins of Dianetics and Scientology" (1950 - 1953)

    The Analytical Mind

    Quote By this time, many a dianetic preclear is becoming convinced that most of his life he has been running strictly on engrams. By no means; the analytical mind is very definitely in there pitching And these are the ways of its workings:

    In studying the present text and releases of Dianetics one is liable to the error of believing that Dianetics concerns itself mainly with the reactive mind, that collection of “unconsciousnesses” which bedevil and plague mankind.

    The mind, however, is important only to the degree that it can observe, pose, resolve and execute problems. In that the reactive mind is no more capable of actually resolving a problem of magnitude than a prefrontal lobotomy is capable of restoring sanity, it can be seen that the analytical mind is the truly important entity.

    Dianetic processing relieves the human being of all mental aberration and psychosomatic illness. This accomplishment was made possible by the discovery of the actual identity of the “unconscious” mind and the development of techniques to unburden it. But Dianetics also includes in its sweep the other minds of the human being, the analytical and the somatic. Actually the analytical mind is so important to the intelligent being and the somatic mind so important to the athlete that dianetic processing can be said to consist of deintensifying the reactive mind so that the analytical and somatic minds can be free to function properly.

    Once one has been “cleared” by dianetic processes— which is to say, once his aberrations and psychosomatic illnesses are vanquished — he operates exclusively on his analytical mind and somatic mind. Therefore a study and knowledge of these is vital if one is to achieve maximal efficiency after he has attained optimum potential. Further, the matter is of intense importance to the dianetic preclear because he is prone, wandering through the idiocies of his reactive mind during sessions of therapy, to believe that he has had only his reactive mind in operation all his life—there is so very much contained in it.
    Because IMHO / IMHE the sense of self / 'I' / ego is itself merely a Projection of the Unconscious / Subconscious ... thus LRH's concept of getting "Clear" makes no sense as it seems he has it all backwards ...

    Disclaimer : As I am not a Scientologist nor do I have any in-depth understanding of his material I may have come to an incorrect conclusion based upon what I have read so far !
    Thanks for your reply Clear Blue Skies.

    Hubbard described the I in the early days of Dianetics as the "Basic Personality". The I is described as such in the book 1: Dianetics, the Moder Science of Mental Healt. In further developments Hubbard describes the I as the "Awareness of Awareness Unit", like in Dianetics 55. And finally the I is described as the "Thetan", the spirit itself. In further discoveries Hubbard describes in detail more phenomena affecting the I or thetan, like in the book: A History of Man.

    This line of research and discoveries go forward up to the advanced levels, reaching in what is called OT VIII or Operating Thetan section 8 a very high level for the I.

    Hope this serves as a guide. Hubbard could identify the "I", thetan, as separate from the body and mind and he put that in the research. It's this line of research that meet and dovetails with the discoveries from quantum physics, and also, the discoveries of quantum physics meet and dovetails with the powers of the spirit. That synthesis was foreseen and started in the work of Isaac Newton.

    The "Allure of super powers" is implicit in the work of Newton. All creation is the result of God, the spirit, a being, consciousness. In this regard, the absolute being, the absolute "I" or absolute "thetan" is the creator of all that exists, and as such he has super powers.

    In Scientology, besides God, there is the thetan who is possessed of the same potentialities, and as such, of the same super powers.

    In the realm of quantum physics, if consciousness is behind every aspect of reality and the universe (as Max Plank stated), then that consciousness has for necessity, super powers.

    Why then a trained Scientology thetan is not able to bend spoons and win the million dollar price offered in the Amazing Randy challenge? The answer to that question is also in the research, including the Philadelphia Doctorate Course. This has to do with universes. In ones own universe, one is "God". In this universe, we share things with other "Gods" or thetans, this universe is a group thing. That's my way of explaining it. My advice is that you better see for yourself in the research.

    Here is an excerpt from the PDC as regards the thetan super powers and universes:

    Quote Now his immediate and foremost desire, of course, centered on the home universe. And the home universe might have merged over into this one. So his active desire was directed toward the home universe, and then became crossed over into this universe. And many people have never discovered that there was any transition. They still think this is their universe.

    They… every once in a while they’ll gun around and they’ll talk about everybody being their puppets and everybody looks like… they haven’t discovered yet that it’s a group action. They… they think they made everybody here. And that’s just uh… an inability to differentiate between universes.
    PDC-44 SOP: ASSESSMENT (CONTINUED)
    PHILADELPHIA DOCTORATE COURSE 13.12.52

    In his own universe, a thetan can bend spoons and win the Amazing Randy million dollars price. In this universe, that thetan intentions collide with Amazing Randy's intention that he will not be able to bend spoons and win the price. Not to mention that in this universe there's an agreement that spirits can not bend spoons.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 14th January 2016 at 06:17.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by boutreality (here)
    cuitlahuac,

    That was a quote from a song, not a question.
    Have fun preaching to your choir, and choir, have fun pretending debate and genuine exchange which is all this thread is (except for my and a couple of other member's responses.)
    Thanks for the clarification.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Thanks for your reply Clear Blue Skies.

    Hubbard described the I in the early days of Dianetics as the "Basic Personality". The I is described as such in the book 1: Dianetics, the Moder Science of Mental Healt. In further developments Hubbard describes the I as the "Awareness of Awareness Unit", like in Dianetics 55. And finally the I is described as the "Thetan", the spirit itself. In further discoveries Hubbard describes in detail more phenomena affecting the I or thetan, like in the book: A History of Man.

    This line of research and discoveries go forward up to the advanced levels, reaching in what is called OT VIII or Operating Thetan section 8 a very high level for the I.

    Hope this serves as a guide. Hubbard could identify the "I", thetan, as separate from the body and mind and he put that in the research. It's this line of research that meet and dovetails with the discoveries from quantum physics, and also, the discoveries of quantum physics meet and dovetails with the powers of the spirit. That synthesis was foreseen and started in the work of Isaac Newton.
    Oh, most interesting, thanks very much Cuitlahuac !

    From : Dianetics 55

    Quote When we have arrived at a state where John Jones himself knows that he is an awareness of awareness unit and not his analytical mind, his reactive mind, his body, his clothes, his house, his car, his wife or his grandparents, we have what is called in Dianetics, a "Clear". A Clear is simply an awareness of awareness unit which knows it is an awareness of awareness unit, can create energy at will, and can handle and control, erase or re-create an analytical mind or reactive mind
    I must admit to not expecting to hear (read) of any references to such language as "Awareness of awareness" in LRH's material ...

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Bettye
    You are right in stating that "Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag." That phenomenon was multiplied by hundreds in 1982 onwards. Hubbard was not seen since 1981, the shadow USA government took over in 1982. I got in in sept 1977 and saw it. The scientologists are outside of US controlled church of Scientology.
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Last edited by Clear Light; 14th January 2016 at 16:52. Reason: Tone

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

    So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

    My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    Bettye
    You are right in stating that "Anything that reeks of control is a red flag. Anything that reeks of swallowing your hard earned cash is a red flag." That phenomenon was multiplied by hundreds in 1982 onwards. Hubbard was not seen since 1981, the shadow USA government took over in 1982. I got in in sept 1977 and saw it. The scientologists are outside of US controlled church of Scientology.
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

    So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

    My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)
    Thanks Bill. Now that this subject is in the public domain (since the second part of the 80's I think) there are several approaches to take. For those who have no inclination for research and believe that Scientology is "science fiction", the best approach is to let them be happy with the idea that all this is "science fiction". That saves lots of arguing.

    For those that want to learn and research or increase their "general knowledge" on this topic, the best approach is to learn first that this subject was kept confidential (among other things) because it can be dangerous (at least in the early days), and there are instances of that being true. Second, you can review the "peer reviews" of this subject made by El Kin in his book: "The Pied Pipers of Heaven" and The Pilot (Ken Ogger) in his work "Super scio" available in the internet.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 14th January 2016 at 18:56.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    By faith we understand things which are seen were not made of the things which are visible

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

    So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

    My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)
    Hmmm ... Now, AFAIK, whether or not LRH was speaking Metaphorically, is still up for debate, for example : Why Do Scientologists Accept the Xenu Story?

    Quote Some ex-church members I met did admit that they had negative reactions to the Xenu story, but by the time they learned it they had already spent so much of their lives invested in Scientology, they really had no personal will to walk away -- at least at that point
    Quote The reason Scientologists accept Hubbard's bizarre story about Xenu is that by the time they reach OT 3, they have been "remembering" their own outlandish space opera "whole track" stories during auditing, perhaps for several years
    Wow, I mean talk about one complete "Mind Fcük" eh ? LOL
    Last edited by Clear Light; 15th January 2016 at 16:12.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by sigma6 (here)
    This is the bibliography Hubbard gives in the book Science of Survival. Of course a researcher on mankind should include the works of Aleister Crowley, because as Hubbard states, Crowley summarized and resurrected the knowledge of Middle East wisdom, including hebrew traditions. A real researcher can not but include the works of "very good friend" Crowley.

    Sigma6, you forgot to mention that Hubbard's involvement with Crowley was an intell operation to counter the spread of Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. That mission was accomplished.

    Ronald Hubbard's bibliography for the researcher on Scientology:

    Fifty thousand years of thinking men, (that includes The Veda and don't forget the Oriental traditions summarized by "very good friend" Aleister Crowley).

    In particular:
    Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Socrates, Plato, Euclid, Lucretious, Robert Bacon, Francis Bacon, Isaac Newton, van Leeuwenhoek, Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Rene Descartes, James Clerk Maxwell, Charcot, Herbert Spencer, William James, Sigmund Freud, Cmdr Thompson (MC) USN, Whilliam A. White, Will Durant, Count Alfred Korzybski, Athomic and Molecular Phenomena curricula and Humanities curricula at George Washington University and Princeton in the 1930's.





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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    From : Dianetics 55

    Quote When we have arrived at a state where John Jones himself knows that he is an awareness of awareness unit and not his analytical mind, his reactive mind, his body, his clothes, his house, his car, his wife or his grandparents, we have what is called in Dianetics, a "Clear". A Clear is simply an awareness of awareness unit which knows it is an awareness of awareness unit, can create energy at will, and can handle and control, erase or re-create an analytical mind or reactive mind
    I must admit to not expecting to hear (read) of any references to such language as "Awareness of awareness" in LRH's material ...
    Oh, perhaps I should elaborate as to the "WHY" of the above statement :

    It is because one who is "Aware of awareness" is effectively in the non-Dual "state" (as non-dual Consciousness) which in "Spiritual Parlance" is like "hitting the jackpot" so-to-speak !

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    .
    Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

    Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard
    (39 mins, 14 Mb)
    http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Ad...on_Hubbard.mp3

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    From a higher perspective information always entered Earth and individuals, but was detected, corrupted and was made controversial in the one thousand and one 'wonderful ways' available to that. A thick layer added to a pure enough liquid - becomes turbid, and it's not an objective task to filter and re-discover the healthy share

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Ah, thanks for all your informative posts so far Cuitlahuac ... yet apparently LRH was discussing some "Galactic Overlord" by the name of "Xenu" or "Xemu" as early as 1968 and ever since that "got out" (so-to-speak) into the public domain I guess Scientology has had a very hard time maintaining its Dignity in the face of overwhelming public ridicule eh ?
    Yes, it's interesting stuff. What's fairly important to understand here is that LRH was often referring to age-old concepts (many thousands of years old, embedded in many cultures and spiritual disciplines), but often gave things different names so as NOT to confuse things with mythology that would benefit from being more precisely defined.

    So, LRH is really referring to the Devil here. But because THAT's a very highly charged cultural concept, and immediately conjures up a load of medieval stuff that might or might not be valid, he's referring to (and this is my own definition ) a hyper-intelligent, immortal, purposeful, demonic influence that affects all human affairs, and has done for millennia... and probably exists to have an influence on other planets and cultures, too.

    My guess is that 90+% of forum members here would attest to the likely reality of such an influence. (It's certainly very real to me.)
    Hmmm ... Now, AFAIK, whether or not LRH was speaking Metaphorically, is still up for debate, for example : Why Do Scientologists Accept the Xenu Story?

    Quote Some ex-church members I met did admit that they had negative reactions to the Xenu story, but by the time they learned it they had already spent so much of their lives invested in Scientology, they really had no personal will to walk away -- at least at that point
    Quote The reason Scientologists accept Hubbard's bizarre story about Xenu is that by the time they reach OT 3, they have been "remembering" their own outlandish space opera "whole track" stories during auditing, perhaps for several years
    Wow, I mean talk about one complete "Mind Fcük" eh ? LOL
    Warning, OT III discussed ahead.

    There's in my opinion 2 ways to go ahead with this subject, now that it is out in the internet. One is to let some people be happy believing this is science fiction. The other is to verify the research, and some of those tools are the memory retrieval techniques used by Hubbard. These basic techniques used are even recognized as valid by some governments. Another field of research is Geology. terms like Kretaceous-Tertiary boundary, time of the extinction of the dinosaurs, Iridium layer, continental drift, Hawaii hot spot, Las Palmas geological history, radio-isotope dating, and the latest statement by university geologists that the extinction of the dinosaurs were due most probably by increased volcanic activity instead of a comet crash.

    The first way, "this is conspiracy theory" saves a lot of discussion and research.

    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 15th January 2016 at 21:07.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    .
    Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

    Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard
    (39 mins, 14 Mb)
    http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Ad...on_Hubbard.mp3
    Thanks, at 20:20 min we can see the kind of scientific experiments Hubbard did on his hypothesis of the mind.

    At 25:25 we learn about a mystic dream he had. This is similar to the mystic dreams scientists like Newton (with the apple) had before embarking on their scientific endeavors.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    .
    Here's a most excellent BBC Radio 4 documentary on Hubbard's life, aired in 1987. Highly recommended for an admirably balanced and detailed view. There are rare interviews with some people no longer with us who knew him well, and he is presented very favorably.

    Ruthless Adventure: The Lives of L Ron Hubbard
    (39 mins, 14 Mb)
    http://projectavalon.net/Ruthless_Ad...on_Hubbard.mp3
    Ah, many thanks for that Bill

    Now, from about 24:26 into the recording :

    Quote ... he [LRH] began to tell me a tale so fascinating ... how during the war he had an operation and while he was lying on the operating table he died ... and he said he found himself in [out of body] Spirit form ... and off in the distance he saw a fascinating wall with a very ornate gate from China or Tibet ... and wow there spread out before him was an intellectual smorgasbord the likes of which the mind of man had never beheld, here was the answer to the "big bang", what God was up to ... was there life on other planets, was there reincarnation ... and like a sponge he was absorbing all of this fantastic information ...
    So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...
    Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

    But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 15th January 2016 at 21:43.

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    UK Avalon Member Clear Light's Avatar
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    Question Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...
    Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

    But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.
    Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

    You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

    i.e the "Separate Self" which I once blindly assumed was "real" ?
    Last edited by Clear Light; 16th January 2016 at 18:00. Reason: Languaging

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  31. Link to Post #78
    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...
    Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

    But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.
    Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

    You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

    i.e the "Separate Self" which we all blindly assume is "real" ?

    Yes, it works. Independently of metaphysical opinion, it's a methodical, detailed, 'engineering' approach that most definitely resolves and erases upsets, losses, internal conflicts, emotional pain and trauma, and opens up the details of as many past lives as one wants to look at.

    Do see this more comprehensive thread — there's a great deal of material there, and quite a lot of interesting discussion:
    Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 16th January 2016 at 18:05.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Brother, Brother...Bill.
    I kept one of my biological sisters away from the Church of Scientology in the early 80's by having a private discussion with one of them, one with more than a little influence. They stayed away. I knew by then that anything worthwhile in COS was gone, masked by some nasty control mechanism. What a piece of work that sister was/is either way. When I look back I wonder about the type of cruel insanity she mimicked from her mother and if it would have been healed somehow by another more organized sociopathy. However, as fleeting a thought that I had was, I knew that you did't heal a deep pathological liar with another depth controlled by another darkness.

    I've kept out of the discussion until now because I was waiting for your words:

    "But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'."

    I appreciate you stepping forward with the warning and including those things that still may be worthwhile. I'll skim the links you left. This is the reason I've always been as straightforward as possible about anything worthwhile and as direct about manipulations that may injure others.

  34. Link to Post #80
    United States Avalon Member Wide-Eyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    So perhaps this was his "moment of Enlightenment", or perhaps as a supremely talented Story-teller, his way of "selling the idea" of Dianetics or ...
    Yes, you see, but the processes — when properly applied — get real results, sometimes spectacular ones. It's not some cheap invention. This stuff works.

    But as I mentioned earlier, don't go anywhere near the Church of Scientology. They're extremely dangerous. As cuitlahuac correctly stated, the takeover of the Church was complete by 1982. Hubbard's best work was in the 1950s, when he generated a vast amount of highly workable, inspired material. Much of that is still delivered by well-trained people who have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Church'.
    Oh, so perhaps you could kindly say a little bit about it please ?

    You see, my "question mark" over such "processes" is not that there doesn't seem to be some sort of "result" (effect), but that the "entity" to which it all seems to be happening TO is itself like a made-up "fiction" ...

    i.e the "Separate Self" which I once blindly assumed was "real" ?
    Ok apologies up front. I have a question Re: LRH and it is probably OFF TOPIC. How if at all does his work relate to say THE MONROE INSTITUTE and it's work along with writing and works of late Robert Monroe? Journeys out of Body and Robert Monroe's different levels of consciousness with help of his patented bi-aural beat Hemi-Sync technologies? I am a bit like the lazy researcher Cuitaluac describes regarding COS and LRH. I vaguely remember reading Bill's work with PCamelot and Dane Tops, I think was his name, and it was very interesting information on COS. Beyond the tabloid info usually presented on COS and it's celebrity members. My company had done work out at their Gilman Springs, Ca. golf course and centre in the late 90's but from this thread and that little research does early LRH work have any correlation to Robert Monroe and The Monroe Institute's "You are more than you physical body" ? Thanks
    Last edited by Wide-Eyed; 17th January 2016 at 00:09. Reason: run on sentences

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