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Thread: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    .
    The E-meter works remarkably sensitively, and all it does (but it does it extremely well!) is indicate the presence of various kinds of, and the behavior of, emotional charge. Like fears, anger, denials, conflicts, problems, protests, significant thoughts and positive emotions of various kinds, and a whole lot else besides.

    It operates very slightly below the level of conscious awareness. That means that it helps people to see what's really going on... dowsers use pendulums to access the same kinds of information sometimes.

    It's basically a kind of very sophisticated biofeedback device. Hubbard was quite correct when he maintained that "on its own, it does nothing". That's exactly right.

    The current passed through the body is incredibly tiny: my own meter is now on its 2nd (second!!) set of AA batteries in 22 years, having probably been used for well over 1,000 hours. That says quite something.

    I have no idea how come it can use up so little current (almost zero, literally) but my pure personal guess is that the current measured is principally from the body's own electrical field, and that the batteries really just operate the tiny movement of the dial, amplifying the minuscule, but significant, body currents it detects.

    Mine is an Ability Meter 3a, which many people assert is the best (I can't really tell: I've never used any other, but I can believe the claim). But like the car you drive, it's kind of a personal preference.



    Some these days are being made by the Russians (Free Zone / Ron's Org scientology is stronger in Russia than anywhere else), and they run on a computer screen with a virtual dial. I suspect they're extremely good... the Russian scientologists, and I've met some of them, are pretty smart people.



    I love the idea of traveling with a USB flash drive — instead of something one grows tired of explaining to the TSA is not some kind of bomb.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd January 2016 at 23:06.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?
    Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?
    What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?
    Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?
    What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.

    Yep. Again (see my post above), it's just an indicator, like a sophisticated electronic version of a pendulum. With practice, one doesn't even need the meter, though it does help.

    (Rather like if one's got very good eyesight, one might not need binoculars to clearly make out something at a distance. But with the binoculars, one can still zoom in if one wants to or needs to.)

    Regarding plants, see the work of Cleve Backster, formerly a CIA interrogation specialist (this is not a joke). Great NY Times article here, called

    He talked to plants. And they talked back.

    http://nytimes.com/news/the-lives-th...cleve-backster


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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    [...]

    Regarding plants, see...
    [...]
    See my post # 95 with the included links
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    How, what do these plants perceive? Maybe you have another phenomenon than thought? What?
    Isn't it a case of conflating how plants seem to respond to thought/emotion with the apparent behaviour of an e-Meter ?
    What registers that a plant has perceived a thought/emotion? It's still an organism that modified its electrical conductivity/resistance in response to a thought generated either remotely or in situ.
    Hmmm ... my line of questioning began in response to :

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously
    Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?
    And to my mind it's still an unproven conclusion that the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Some these days are being made by the Russians (Free Zone / Ron's Org scientology is stronger in Russia than anywhere else), and they run on a computer screen with a virtual dial. I suspect they're extremely good... the Russian scientologists, and I've met some of them, are pretty smart people.
    404 File Not Found - The document you requested at https://projectavalon.net/forum4/www.theta-meter.com could not be found.

    Is this the site?
    Theta-Meter - E-Meter for beginners and for professionals - http://theta-meter.com

    Feel free to delete once link is repaired.

    From Bill: Thanks! Yes, that's the site.
    (Note to self: always test links before posting )

    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd January 2016 at 23:08.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    [...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...
    Right!

    I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101. At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

    That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.
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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    [...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...
    Right!

    I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101. At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

    That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.
    Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one.

    I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

    That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

    Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

    They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.
    Last edited by Bill Ryan; 22nd January 2016 at 23:21.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by YoYoYo (here)
    What are the ways to learn about scientology? Theres the main church but how expensive does it get? and what are the free ways to learn everything?
    —> Q and A about Ron Hubbard, Bill Robertson, Scientology, the Free Zone and Ron's Org

    Do NOT NOT NOT go anywhere near the Church of Scientology, or any of their own (altered-from-original) materials.
    I could not agree more. Scientology is a dangerous cult. They hurt(sometimes kill) people. Everything they espouse is regurgitated from other, better sources. **** Scientology.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Hmmm ... my line of questioning began in response to :

    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    Quote Posted by cuitlahuac (here)
    This demonstrates that the needle reacted to the thought of the person being pinched previously
    Hmmm ... it may seem like that but isn't it simply responding to the passage of electricity through the human body ?
    And to my mind it's still an unproven conclusion that the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...
    Of course Clear Blue Skies. My statement is "wrong". The needle is not reacting exactly to a thought, it is reacting to a change of bodily electric current (change in resistance). The needle is being affected by a change in resistance (electric current), but that change in resistance is caused by a thought. The body reacts electrochemically to a thought.

    Plants do the same. They react electrochemically to a thought as demonstrated in the links above.

    There's a book called, The book of The E-meter and it has a "working hypothesis" and it is that a mental image picture affects the resistance of the body.

    In the video of the pinch test, the "mental image picture" of a pinch affected the resistance of the person holding the cans. In the video, first the person had a change in resistance before the pinch, when she thought of it. Then a change in resistance when she was pinched, and finally, when she remembered the pinch.

    Male dead bodies have a set resistance. Female dead bodies have another fixed resistance. Living bodies change resistance according to the mental image pictures affecting them.

    That is the theory. If there are other theories, they must explain the phenomena better than The Book of the E-meter and better than the experiments with plants.

    This is kind of a resume of The Book of the E-meter:

    Quote In order to understand how the E-Meter works, it is necessary to understand some basic Scientology concepts.

    There are three basic parts of Man—mind, body and thetan. The thetan is an immortal spiritual being—the individual himself. The thetan inhabits a body and has a mind, which is a collection of mental image pictures.

    The pictures in the mind contain energy and mass. The energy and force in pictures of painful or upsetting experiences can have a harmful effect upon an individual. This harmful energy or force is called charge.

    When the E-Meter is operating and a person holds the meter’s electrodes, a very tiny flow of electrical energy (about 1.5 volts—less than a flashlight battery) passes down the wires of the E-Meter leads, through the person’s body and back into the E-Meter. (The electrical flow is so small, there is no physical sensation when holding the electrodes.)

    When the person thinks a thought, looks at a picture in their mind, re-experiences an incident or shifts some part of the reactive mind, they are moving and changing actual mental mass and energy. These changes in the mind influence the tiny flow of electrical energy generated by the E-Meter, causing the needle on its dial to move. The needle reactions on the E-Meter tell the auditor where the charge lies, and that it should be addressed through auditing.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Physical scientists have so far failed to explain the expansion of the universe, have so far failed to unify gravity with electromagnetism, but by studying awareness and life as source of the universe, the answers to these questions have been predicted and found.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Sciences that have produced the most results are those using the inductive method. 19th century "sciences" like psychology use the reverse. They produce enormous amounts of data to create a hypothesis and then try to prove their hypothesis instead of predicting more data.

    Simple Definition of inductive: using particular examples to reach a general conclusion about something.
    - Meriam Webster dictionary.

    Quote:
    Well, this method of thinking... is scientific thinking "Let'go and gather a whole bunch of data... and let's look at a lot of phenomena. And after we've gotten everything we can find on the subject, then let's go find a theory for it. And let's just take any old theory that happens to come along and see if it explains some of this data. If it does, we're all set."

    As a consequence, science won't advance around here but just keeps sort of wandering off, and it gets off here and there and gets all confused about it. And it has been doing so, so that you get cytology arguing with biology, arguing with evolutionists. And these theories are all different. These theories were not arrived at inductively, and these theories do not predict new phenomena.

    Scientology is an effort to go around the clock clockwise - to take data and then look for material, look for the phenomena predicted by that data and see if it exists in the physical universe.

    Well, it's an interesting field, Scientology, because all it's trying to do is pick up all the loose ends... It's trying to get a unification of science, combine it with a unification of anything - the humanities, religion or even mathematics, aesthetics. It's trying to bring these things all into the same field so that they can all be used.

    It'll predict, you can take Scientology and you can predict what should be the whole field of biology and where it should mesh with cytology and where that should mesh with evolution. And you will come out with a package of data and phenomena which, if you presented them to the cytologist, to the biologist and to the evolutionist, you would find a point of agreement. They would agree on the data which you had there.
    End Quote:

    TIME TRACK OF THETA HISTORY OF MAN SERIES 1: ORGANIZATION OF DATA
    Lecture 19A of the Hubbard College Lectures (HCL-19A) of 10 MAR 52.

    http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientolo...ck+of+Theta%2F

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    [...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...
    Right!

    I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101. At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

    That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.
    Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one.

    I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

    That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

    Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

    They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.
    I am certainly not an expert and jumping in here after reading and going through this thread weeks ago, but somewhat of an experiencer with Neoro Linguistic Programming or NLP-and it (NLP) in my experience works. Might the e-meter work /perform in a similar fashion ?

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Quote Posted by Wide-Eyed (here)
    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Hervé (here)
    Quote Posted by Clear Blue Skies (here)
    [...] the e-Meter is responding to anything other than change in bodily electric current !

    However I could entertain the suggestion of "thought" as "co-arising" with bodily changes ...
    Right!

    I personally haven't written anything else. However, simple observation notices the concomitance of the thought with the instant change in electrical conductivity/resistance of the organism. With such instrument, one can chase down a particular thought exhibiting a specific "conductive/resistance signature" till it emerges in one's individual consciousness as Bill explained above in post # 101. At which point said specific "conductive/resistance signature" doesn't re-occur.

    That's all. Bill can confirm if he wishes.
    Yes. I'm not an expert (by any means!), but it's pretty clever stuff. I know how to use a meter, but NOT how to make one.

    I'd say that the human body-mind as a whole is a complex, highly tuned, sophisticated, near-miraculous, bio-electric 'machine' (as well as much else besides). (All animals and plants are, as well, no matter how simple or small.)

    That means that thoughts and emotions can be detected. Not READ — not at all — but their PRESENCE can be detected.

    Again, this is doing nothing more than a highly sensitive person often does, all on their own, when sitting listening carefully to someone who's upset or has a problem. Parents do this with their children! There's nothing really unusual, here.

    They can often 'sense' what's really going on — like if someone's holding back on something, or they're suppressing anger, fear or tears, or they're struggling with a big problem they feel they just can't talk about... all good therapists and counselors use those natural abilities to assist themselves in supporting others. This is just the same kind of thing.
    I am certainly not an expert and jumping in here after reading and going through this thread weeks ago, but somewhat of an experiencer with Neoro Linguistic Programming or NLP-and it (NLP) in my experience works. Might the e-meter work /perform in a similar fashion ?
    Ah umm ...We'll take that as a no Bob...?

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    I don't know enough of the operation of NLP.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Einstein in his theory of relativity made a prediction in the early 20th century that there exist gravitational waves. It was until 2016 that those waves were detected. So, we don't need scholars, University Doctors or peer review publications to validate Einstein's theory of relativity.

    Similarly, Scientology makes a theory, makes predictions and gets validated when those predictions are found. No need for Doctors, university scholars or peer review publications agreeing or not on it.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    The most developed physical science, Quantum Mechanics, indicated that consciousness is the underlying principle behind all physical phenomena. That means consciousness should be studied by science. That's what L. Ronald Hubbard did with Scientology.

    This also should bring not only a simplification of physics, but also a unification not only in the field of physics but also in subjects dealing with consciousness, like religion, social sciences and mysticism.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 1st March 2016 at 17:22.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    In the case of Dianetics, many people reading Book 1 would get the idea that going back into memories, one would arrive at the possibility of recovering the memories of past lives if they exist or recovering the time of the dinosaurs if one recovers the genetic memories of the human protoplasm line. This makes one do the prediction of past lives or of genetic memories of millions of years ago. And when one apply the technology to recover the memories, one finds they are there, either past lives or genetic memories.

    That is one example of Dianetics being a science that created a theory that makes it possible for you to make a prediction and then finding out that that predicted phenomena exists, and so that verifies the theory and Dianetics. No need to wait decades to get funding to perform an experiment for verification, and again, no need for university scholars 'agreeing', no need for university doktas giving their 'expert' opinions and no need for scholarly approved and expensive peer review studies. No need for statistical analysis p values to demonstrate the validity of the hypothesis.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 2nd March 2016 at 06:34.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Now, lets see more of the subject of consciousness being behind the phenomena in the physical universe.

    Below a statement from member jiminii:

    Quote I will try to clear up some confusion here
    a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to have a place to view from ... ok if you are outside the body .. you are viewing from the viewpoint itself .. if you are inside the body your viewpoint has been shifted to use the eyes and ears of the body and all it's perceptions ... it takes awhile to do this .. I heard from 49 days to 51 days something like that .. where there is a image of a body they wrap this viewpoint around to thoroughly shift it's viewpoint to needing a body to operate in and when it takes on a body it's viewpoint is shifted from the viewpoint to the body eyes and perceptions ...

    just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

    any questions?

    jim
    Definitions:

    THETAN, 1. the living unit we call, in Scn, a thetan, that being taken from the Greek letter theta, the mathematic symbol used in Scn to indicate the source of life and life itself. 2 . the awareness of awareness unit which has all potentialities but no mass, no wave-length and no location. 9 . the person himself—not his body or his name, the physical
    universe, his mind, or anything else; that which is aware of being aware; the identity which is the individual. The thetan is most familiar to one and all as you.

    STATIC, 1. a static is something without mass, without wavelength, without time, and actually without position. That’s a static and that is the definition of zero. 6 . the simplest thing there is is a static, but a static is not nothingness. These are not synonyms. We speak of it carelessly as a nothingness. That’s because we say nothingness in relationship to the space and objects of the material universe. Life has a quality. It has an ability. When we say nothingness we simply mean it has no quantity. There is no quantitative factor.

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    Default Re: Scientology, Science for a Golden Age

    Now let's see how Scientology provides the theory for the explanation jiminii gives below.

    Note: The 'consciousness' spoken off by Max Planck has been scientifically explained by L. Ron Hubbard with Scientology. jiminii is going further on what is going on today as regards the source of life, the source of universes or the source of the consciousness.

    Quote a thetan by definition is the spirit itself ... but the spirit itself is a static ... it has no motion .. no wavelength no mass no energy no space and no time ... it is like a complete black void (or can be white .. I've seen both) ok the thetan is outside this universe . and every thetan (spirit) that is operating inside this universe is outside this universe (MEST matter energy space and time universe) .. all of them are outside creating this universe (MEST) .. so it is like they have to put a pin hole into this physical universe to see what is inside ... this is a viewpoint ... now this is what most people think of as the spirit that looks like a golden ball next to the body it is managing .. the viewpoint is not the thetan (spirit) it is a creation by the spirit to a place to view from ...

    just look at the viewpoint like you look at the idea of a spirit .. next to the body ... but it is not the spirit .. the spirit is outside this universe .. the viewpoint is a creation by the spirit to be able to look inside this universe ... and the spirit outside this universe can make more than one viewpoint ... this means it can run more than one timeline

    Definitions:

    Axiom 1 Life is basically a static.

    DEFINITION: A life static has no mass, no motion, no wavelength, no location in space or in time. It has the ability to postulate and to perceive.

    Axiom 2 The static is capable of considerations, postulates and opinions.

    Axiom 3 Space, energy, objects, form and time are the result of considerations made and/or agreed upon by the static and are perceived solely because the static considers that it can perceive them.


    The Factors

    Summation of the considerations and examinations of the human spirit and the material universe completed between A.D. 1923 and 1953.

    1 Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect.

    2 In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.

    3 The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.

    4 The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points to view, which are dimension points.

    5 Thus there is space created, for the definition of space is: viewpoint of dimension. And the purpose of a dimension point is space and a point of view.
    Last edited by cuitlahuac; 3rd March 2016 at 17:42.

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