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Thread: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    So, this is the hypothesis in short:

    1) In case LaVoy was tasered and that’s what made him fall down, and
    its very hard to "Tase" people in the winter, jackets etc interfere with the probes... I seriously doubt he was tasered. (in Alaska they were finding that certain types of layered clothing were stopping 9mm bullets from Troopers side arms).
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    … its very hard to "Tase" people in the winter…
    Hi TargeT, maybe you are right or maybe not, because it may be “hard” but not “impossible”.

    But in any case, this is one of those never ending discussions that will lead us no where because someone can say “it’s hard”, another person can say “it’s not impossible”, and the discussion could go on forever without solving the doubt (whether LaVoy was tasered or not.)

    But there is another very easy and quick way to solve the doubts of what really happened to LaVoy.

    The solution is what they explain in the article below, which can be summarized as follows:
    FBI, release immediately ALL VIDEO FOOTAGE (with sound) of LaVoy’s ambush so that we can “see” and “hear” what really happened, and not only that very low quality drone video footage and without sound.
    But the FBI has chosen the opposite: not to release all footage. And many of us doubt they’ll release it “willingly”, possibly because they have a lot of things to hide (as usual).

    Therefore, independently of whether LaVoy was tasered or not, we already have conclusive proof of one thing:

    The FBI cannot be trusted (and it is probably lying), and we know that based on 2 things: 1) because of the testimony of Shawna Cox and Victoria Sharp (which totally contradicts the official FBI version), and 2) because if the FBI was telling the truth, they would have already (several weeks ago) released ALL video footage with sound (dashboard cams, helmets cams, etc.), and also Ryan Bundy and Shawna Cox’s video camera and cell phones video footage and sound, instead of what they’ve done: confiscate them and hide them.

    What the FBI has done so far matches perfectly the typical procedure of an official cover-up (Note: as it happened with 911 = controlled demolition = inside job, and many other similar elite’s crimes.)

    This is the article:

    Quote Police-FBI Shooting of LaVoy Finicum — Where Are the Other Videos? Monday, 15 February 2016 . Written by William F. Jasper
    http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/con...e-other-videos
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/police-f...er-videos.html
    Excerpts:

    … While most of the “mainstream” media reports uncritically accepted the FBI claim, the video does not unequivocally support that interpretation of the event.

    As we reported, the FBI video is a grainy and often out-of-focus video, and since it was taken from considerable altitude, it only provides an overhead perspective. Moreover, there is no audio, so there is no way to ascertain how many shots were fired, or when they were fired.

    The movement of Mr. Finicum’s right hand, may just as well have been — as critics point out — that he was trying to balance himself in the slippery, deep snow, or was grabbing his side in an involuntary reaction to having already been shot.

    In our earlier article on the FBI video, we asked:
    • In an operation of this size, with all of the local, state, and federal resources and manpower deployed, were there no other video or audio recordings?

    • Were there no dash-cams on the vehicles or body-cams/body-mics on the troopers and FBI agents?

    • Where is Finicum’s truck and has there been any independent verification of the number of bullet holes in it?
    And we added: "It is highly unlikely that there are not additional video and audio recordings."

    Apparently, there were additional cameras, as we suspected. First of all, Shawna Cox, one of the two female passengers in Finicum’s pickup truck, says she was videotaping the event with her smart phone, which was confiscated when she was arrested along with the remaining passengers, after the shooting.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	FBI video camara helmet, ryan_payne_arrest_closeup.001.jpg
Views:	281
Size:	249.8 KB
ID:	32863
    FBI agent arrests Ryan Payne during LaVoy’s ambush.
    Possible video camera in FBI helmet.

    …We have not been able to verify that the object circled in the photo to the right is indeed an “FBI Helmet Camera” (or that the individual shown is an FBI agent), but, obviously, someone at the scene shot the video/photo images, so there was at least one other camera on the ground at the FBI-OSP roadblock.

    Very likely, other agents and troopers also were fitted with cameras.

    In releasing the initial aerial video, Agent Bretzing said “we want to do what we can to lay out an honest and unfiltered view of what happened and how it happened.” He also said that in spite of the graphic details included in the video, “we feel that it is necessary to show the whole thing unedited in the interest of transparency.”

    If the Obama Justice Department and FBI are truly interested in “transparency” and laying out “an honest and unfiltered view of what happened and how it happened,” they will release Shawna Cox’s video, as well as all other police/FBI video and audio recordings of the shooting.
    ----------------------

    In other words, the FBI “says” they are interested in honesty and transparency, but they are “doing” the opposite, as the previous article explains.
    Last edited by qbeac; 17th February 2016 at 12:34.

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    Quote Posted by TargeT (here)
    … its very hard to "Tase" people in the winter…
    Hi TargeT, maybe you are right or maybe not, because it may be “hard” but not “impossible”.
    ok, let me re-phrase:

    So hard that it would not be considered as a viable tactic in a situation like this, so hard that you'd have to get a lucky DOUBLE strike to the face/neck area, or maybe a bit of exposed skin at the wrists or if the jacket is open, that thin strip of shirt that would be exposed.

    as far as planning goes (and these types of actions are always planned and rehearsed, that's why they win) it wouldn't be considered, the equipment for it wouldn't be fielded.

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    Attachment 32863
    FBI agent arrests Ryan Payne during LaVoy’s ambush.
    Possible video camera in FBI helmet.
    These guys are clearly "operator" trained (or at least equipped), that's not a camera that's a night vision mount like this:


    there were probably vehicle cameras, maybe even body cameras (though that's doubtful).... nearly every person has a video recording device on them at all times, make sure and start recording when ever a situation gets a weird.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Hi TargeT,

    The main point here is not to have endless discussions about a very low quality FBI drone video footage, because due to its low resolution, it is not conclusive.

    The main point here is that in modern times with so much high technology, it is common practice for LEOs (and elite’s mercenaries-thugs) to use very small and high quality video cameras (in their helmets or uniforms), and considering there were dozens of agents (mercenaries?) on the field during LaVoy’s ambush, there are probably dozens of video recordings from all different angles and with sound.

    Not to mention Ryan Bundy and Shawna Cox’s video camera and cell phone videos, which recorded the ambush but were confiscated by the FBI.

    So, just watching and hearing those videos would easily solve the doubts caused by the very low quality drone footage the FBI has chosen to release.

    In any case, by hiding and confiscating all those videos footage, it is quite obvious the FBI is engaging in one more official cover up, as they have done many other times in the past (911-inside job, etc., etc., etc.)

    That’s the main point.

    The solution to the problem is what Judge Anna Von Reitz and others are saying:

    To use peaceful and lawful methods (Ex: Common Law and not Maritime Law) to arrest and judge the criminals and mercenaries who work for the corrupt elite and not for “we the people”, and are murdering with impunity innocent persons (as LaVoy and many other ones) and then covering up their crimes.

    And let’s hope the White Hats do it soon.

    -----------------------------

    P.S. This is additional info about modern video cameras regularly used by LEOs, police, military, FBI, CIA, elite’s mercenaries, etc.:
    Helmet camera
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_camera

    A helmet camera, otherwise known as a micro video camera, bullet camera, or lipstick camera, is an action camera, usually a closed circuit television camera, attached to a helmet allowing someone to make a visual record from their point of view (POV), while keeping their hands and vision free……..etc.

    Body worn video
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_w...#United_States

    Body worn video (BWV), also known as body cameras, is a video recording system that is typically utilized by law enforcement to record their interactions with the public or gather video evidence at crime scenes, and has been known to increase both officer and citizen accountability....etc.

    Police helmet video camera. Images.
    https://www.google.es/search?hl=es&s...t+video+camera

    Military helmet camera. Images.
    https://www.google.es/search?hl=es&s...+helmet+camera

    Army helmet camera. Images.
    https://www.google.es/search?hl=es&s...+helmet+camera

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    The main point here is not to have endless discussions about a very low quality FBI drone video footage, because due to its low resolution, it is not conclusive.

    The main point here is that in modern times with so much high technology, it is common practice for LEOs (and elite’s mercenaries-thugs) to use very small and high quality video cameras (in their helmets or uniforms)
    Nope, it sure isn't... especially on something like this; you don't set up a killing field then film it with cameras... I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that there were cameras and none of them were on, maybe the only footage was from the aerial unit.

    This wasn't a last minuet operation, this was planned and executed; you don't stage a shooter in the woods at a road block for fun.

    Using a camera on any shooting mission is just a terrible idea, unless it's super high profile (and guess what, even then you likely won't see the footage... Osama Bin Ladin anyone?).

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)

    P.S. This is additional info about modern video cameras regularly used by LEOs, police, military, FBI, CIA, elite’s mercenaries, etc.:
    [indent][indent][indent][color=darkblue]Helmet camera
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmet_camera

    A helmet camera, otherwise known as a micro video camera, bullet camera, or lipstick camera, is an action camera, usually a closed circuit television camera, attached to a helmet allowing someone to make a visual record from their point of view (POV), while keeping their hands and vision free……..etc.

    My point is, don't waste time looking for what is most likely not there; these folks appear to know what they are doing and the likely hood of multiple cameras filming a premeditated crime is very low.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Topic dilution, anyone?

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Hi TargeT,

    Due to modern technological capabilities (Note: nowadays even children have micro cameras in their cell phones, and even more so LEOs,) it is not credible, nor likely, that there isn’t more video footage with sound.

    However, there is a witness called Kevin Preusse who says he saw live dash cam video footage of LaVoy’s ambush because he was at that exact time inside the Police Control Center (or a similar place):

    Quote Live from Burns Oregon - Kevin Preusse - Live dash cam witness?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMjPdCbmZTU
    If true, that would confirm there is at least dash cam footage (probably with sound) that the FBI are withholding. That’s a cover up.

    --------------

    In any case, all possibilities point in the direction of an official FBI cover up.

    These are the possibilities:

    Possibility 1) If the FBI agents were ordered to not use their video cameras that day (as it is common practice nowadays among LEOs), then that points to either gross incompetence or a deliberate cover up.

    Possibility 2) If the FBI used video cameras with sound but chose not to release the recordings, that’s a cover up.

    --------------

    But there is a third key fact:

    Ryan Bundy and Shawna Cox’s video camera and cell phones did record the ambush (according to Shawna), but the FBI confiscated them. That’s a cover up.


    --------------

    There is a fourth key fact:

    Why don’t they show us LaVoy’s truck to see all the bullet holes? That’s another cover up.

    --------------

    In summary, however you look at it, it is deep black, its official criminality in action.

    Solution: use Judge Anna Von Reitz’s advice and arrest and judge the official criminals who work for the elite and not the people.

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Hi everyone,

    What Judge Anna Von Reitz explains in this letter is one of the ways (or tools) that need to be used to solve this situation:

    Quote Letter from Judge Anna to Sheriff Palmer . Tuesday, February 16, 2016
    http://nesaranews.blogspot.com.es/20...ff-palmer.html
    Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 19:51:40 -0500
    Subject: Letter from Judge Anna to Sheriff Palmer

    Sheriff Palmer and Sheriff Clark in Oregon have both realized that the "Federal Government" corporation and its for-hire agencies have usurped unlawful jurisdiction, but they may still not realize exactly how or why, so I wrote the following Letter of Support to Sheriff Palmer to make it absolutely clear:

    February 15, 2016

    Sheriff Glenn E. Palmer
    Grant County Sheriff’s Office
    205 South Humbolt
    Canyon City, Oregon RFD 97820

    Dear Sheriff Palmer,

    I want to thank and congratulate you on your strong stand in behalf of The Constitution and for honoring the guarantees that both the States of America and the living people are owed.

    Although you are currently employed by a “governmental services corporation” that forces you to spend your time and effort on corporate law enforcement activities---- enforcement of “Public Policies” and “code” and “statutory law” and “regulations” instead of enforcing the Organic and Public Law we are all owed---- Sheriff Richard Mack brought this very issue all the way to the US Supreme Court in Mack and Prinz v. USA and it was determined that you have every right to exercise your office in defense of The Constitution.

    If anyone tries to intimidate you or tell you that you can’t enforce the Organic Law of this country, you just waive that under their noses.

    That said, it must be clearly stated that as things now stand, you are not occupying any Public Office. This isn’t your fault and I am not criticizing you. This circumstance resulted from the units of State and County governments choosing to “incorporate” as franchises of the USA, Inc. back in the 1950’s and 60’s.

    When you take a company operating on the land and under the Law of the Land and incorporate it, the resulting corporation then has to operate in the international jurisdiction of the sea and under the international Law of the Sea.

    The Constitution is the “Supreme Law of the Land” so far as the Federal Government is concerned, but without an unincorporated County or State organization to access that jurisdiction, you are stuck operating as you now are---- a mere employee of a governmental services corporation, placed between your stated and moral duty to enforce The Constitution and the Organic Law of this country and the demands of those operating the private corporation management for you to do nothing but enforce their edicts and regulations instead.

    Mack and Prinz v. USA guarantees your right to enforce The Constitution, but a man cannot ultimately serve two masters.

    The move is on to elect men like you to the true Public Office of Sheriff on the Land in restored Counties operating as unincorporated body politics owed absolute control of the land jurisdiction of this country once again. As a peace officer--- as opposed to a “law enforcement” officer--- you will be able to occupy the vacated Public Office of Sheriff on the Land and hold the highest peace keeping office in America. You will be able to deputize as many men as you need to deputize to guarantee The Constitution and enforce it and the rest of our Public Law. You will be able to commandeer whatever equipment you need.

    The De Facto Rule of the Corporations as opposed to the Rule of Law and their usurpation upon our jurisdiction is swiftly coming to a well-deserved and ignominious end, as these organizations are being recognized internationally as the self-interested crime syndicates they have become. The banks that have been running these “governmental services corporations” as storefronts and misrepresenting them as if these organizations were in fact our lawful government have been caught red-handed in mammoth fraud, unlawful conversion of assets, and enslavement.

    From the “Governor” on down, people have knowingly or unknowingly been impersonating lawful Public Officials and appearing to act in our lawful Public Offices, while in fact occupying private corporate offices instead. Many of them have taken secretive advantage of the resulting lack of accountability to plunder our country and our people. Those who have abused our trust and used these similarly named private offices as a means to abuse the power of Public Offices for private gain and purposes of plunder are guilty of terrible crimes. They will be prosecuted accordingly.

    Please try to inform your fellow-Sheriffs of the facts so that no more of them fall into the trap of obeying unlawful and immoral orders. The Nuremburg Tribunal has been reopened to serve those who, like Sheriff Ward, continue to follow orders that are: (1) not issued by anyone holding valid Public Office; (2) violate the Organic and Public Law of this country; (3) result in harming innocent people and their public and private property interests.

    Judge Anna Maria Riezinger
    c/o Box 520994
    Big Lake, Alaska RFD 99652

    ***Please, take the time to add your voices. Send your letters and cards of support to Sheriff Palmer at the address above. He has been under a lot of pressure from the criminals operating the Federal Corporation and its "Oregon" franchise to stand down from his support of the actual Public Law of this country. He needs your support and he needs to know why he is right and why those criticizing him are wrong.***

    Posted by Freewill at 11:08 PM 1 comments

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Refuge occupier seeks $666 billion in damages 'from works of devil'

    "Shawna Cox, one of the 25 people indicted on a federal conspiracy charge in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, has filed her own complaint against federal employees, saying she was a victim of public corruption and government oppression.

    "The eight-page "counter criminal complaint'' filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Portland contends that state and federal employees attempted to kill her and "executed'' her "co-witness and co-informant'' Robert "LaVoy" Finicum on Jan. 26."

    "I am being maliciously prosecuted by State and Federal Bar Association members because they do not want to be held accountable for their subversive activities against the people of the United States of America,'' Cox says in the filing.

    "In her complaint, Cox says she'll ask jurors who hear her case to bring criminal and civil charges instead against all of the Oregon State Bar members and public employees involved in the "persecution, prosecutorial misconduct and ineffective (counsel)" that resulted in the extended prison time for Burns-area ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steve Hammond.

    "She also is seeking charges against those who prevented occupiers from resolving the situation through a "grand jury or inquest jury'' in Harney County, and those involved in the "ambush'' of the leaders of the takeover.

    "She pledges to subpoena a wide range of local, state and federal officials for depositions -- from Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward and Gov. Kate Brown to U.S. District Judge Ann Aiken and Oregon State Audubon Society members.

    She seeks more than $666 billion in damages "from the works of the devil,'' the complaint says."

    Way to go Shawna. Give 'em hell!
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by TrumanCash (here)
    Refuge occupier seeks $666 billion in damages 'from works of devil'

    "Shawna Cox, one of the 25 people indicted on a federal conspiracy charge in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, has filed her own complaint against federal employees, saying she was a victim of public corruption and government oppression…………….etc.

    She seeks more than $666 billion in damages "from the works of the devil,'' the complaint says."

    Way to go Shawna. Give 'em hell!
    Great news, TrumanCash, thanks for posting it.

    The elite and its minions have murdered LaVoy (a good and innocent man) and have unjustly imprisoned innocent people (Ammon Bundy, etc.), and then have tried to cover up the facts, and they’ve done all of this with impunity, as they usually do.

    They’ve committed these crimes to try to prevent the “virus” of truth from spreading any further.

    But this time the elite’s crimes may backfire on them because the Oregon event has helped to awaken a lot of people about the criminality of the elite and its minions (mercenaries, MSM, government officials, etc.)

    So this situation could be the beginning of the end of the corrupt elite.

    We’ll see how Shawna’s complaint unfolds.

    Yes, that’s the way to go, Shawna! Now, many more people should follow her example.

    The title of the following video gives a good summary of what’s happening in the USA:

    Quote BLM Insider: "We've Got A Rogue Government That's Been Militarized" - Dan Happel on Oregon Standoff
    World Alternative Media
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hokvHd4rPc

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    This post is to ask a question to the moderators of this forum, including Bill Ryan:

    Hi moderators-administrators,

    Would you give us your permission to open a Poll about LaVoy’s murder?

    The Poll would be something like this (more or less, it could be modified or improved):

    Poll title:
    LaVoy’s voice: Crowdfounding to buy new batteries for the FBI video cameras. Would you help the FBI?
    Questions of the Poll:
    1) Yes, I’d like to donate money to the FBI so that they can buy new batteries for their helmet-video cameras.

    2) No, I don’t want to help the FBI to buy new batteries for their helmet-video cameras.

    3) I don’t care if the FBI records or not their interactions with the public.

    4) Other options (please, explain)
    Text of Post #1 of the Poll:

    This is a proposal to open a real Crowdfounding for LaVoy’s case.

    We encourage anybody who may be able to help opening the Crowfounding, to do so.

    However, the Crowdfounding has two meanings: 1) an ironic “excuse” and 2) a real reason.

    The ironic “excuse” of the Crowdfounding is this one:

    To raise money so that the FBI can buy new AAA batteries for their helmet-video cameras, since the only video footage the FBI has provided so far has very poor quality and we can’t see nor hear what really happened during the ambush and murder of LaVoy.

    Many of us believe there is a high probability the FBI murdered LaVoy in the first place, and then is engaging in a deliberate cover-up of the real facts surrounding LaVoy’s murder. That’s why we think they have released only very low resolution drone video footage, even though it is common practice nowadays among LEOs to carry micro cameras to record their interactions with the public, and there were dozens of FBI agents on the field during the ambush.

    The intention of this silly “excuse” (to buy AAA batteries for the FBI’s cameras) is to raise awareness among the general population of the fact that it is not credible, nor likely, that the FBI doesn’t have many more high quality video recordings, with sound and from many different angles, of the ambush and murder of LaVoy.

    It’s also important to point out that Shawna Cox and Victoria Sharp’s eyewitness testimonies of what happened, completely contradict the official version of events supported by the FBI, MSM, local, state and Fed authorities.

    It’s also important to point out that Ryan Bundy and Shawna Cox recorded the ambush and murder of LaVoy with their respective cell phones and video camera (which also had sound), but the FBI, instead of publishing the recordings for all to see, it has confiscated those electronic devices.

    All these facts lead us to believe what the title of this video summarizes:

    Quote BLM Insider: "We've Got A Rogue Government That's Been Militarized" - Dan Happel on Oregon Standoff
    World Alternative Media
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hokvHd4rPc
    The real reason of the Crowdfounding is this one:

    The money raised by the Crowdfounding will go directly to LaVoy’s family (Note: we’ll let them know that from the beginning and use LaVoy’s family contact dada (Paypal, etc.) if they agree with this initiative), so that they use the money as they wish, because the government has unjustly murdered their father (LaVoy) and, therefore, they will probably appreciate any help they may receive.

    ---------------------------

    For a lot more information about LaVoy’s case:

    Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed
    https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...03#post1047303

    ---------------------------

    That could be (more or less) Post #1 of the Poll.

    If anyone would like to support this initiative, please, let us know. Thanks.

    ---------------------------

    UPDATE:

    P.S. Of course the first step about this proposal would be to ask the LaVoy family if they would like for the Crowdfounding (or fund-raising) to be done on their behalf or even perhaps with their collaboration (in case they want, of course).

    Having said that, even if the LaVoy family would not like to participate or benefit from this proposal, it is perfectly legitimate for anybody who wishes to help anybody to do so (Note: same thing applies for the rest of the people affected: Bundy’s, Hammond’s, Ryan Payne, Buda, the rest of the indicted persons, etc.)

    And it is also legitimate for any real patriot who wishes to help raise public awareness about the unjust murder of LaVoy, to do so.

    Now then, in case LaVoy’s family would not like to participate in this initiative or would not accept the financial aid (which it’s ok), the proposal could be rewritten accordingly, and that money could be spent for any other similar goal related to the Oregon situation, such as helping the persons who have been mistreated and unjustly indicted (Bundy’s, Hammonds’, Ryan Payne, Buda, the rest of the them, etc.)

    We can ask all of them and see what they think.

    Maybe some of them will like this initiative and others don’t. But we cannot know what they’ll say if we don’t ask them.

    The goal of the proposal is twofold:
    1) To help the people who have been mistreated by the government in this case (Oregon). In fact, this initiative can be organized and coordinated with them (Ex: LaVoy’s, Bundy’s, Hammond’s, and the rest of the people involved, the indicted ones, etc.)

    2) To help raising public awareness about this situation, because that’s precisely what the corrupt elite don’t want: for the “virus” of truth to spread further.
    In any case, the first step about this proposal would be to open a Poll to do a public brainstorming to see how this initiative could be organized, and to see what people think about it, so that they can give their inputs, their opinions, etc.

    Also, public Internet forums dedicated to truth, liberty, and freedom of expression (such as this one and many other ones), are good places to do that: public brainstorming about noble causes. Actually, that’s what we are doing right now and that’s what Internet forums are for.
    Last edited by qbeac; 18th February 2016 at 14:13.

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  22. Link to Post #192
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    This post is to ask a question to the moderators of this forum, including Bill Ryan:

    Hi moderators-administrators,

    Would you give us your permission to open a Poll about LaVoy’s murder?

    The Poll would be something like this (more or less, it could be modified or improved):

    Poll title:
    LaVoy’s voice: Crowdfounding to buy new batteries for the FBI video cameras. Would you help the FBI?
    If you want to help the family of LaVoy Finicum, perhaps it would be best to first contact the family, and find out what sort of help, if any, they would appreciate.

    Presuming that they need cash donations, and then opening an ironically phrased poll on Project Avalon supposedly, albeit indirectly, asking if "we" (someone?) should crowdfund donations to the family ... seems like (1) an indirect, ineffective and perhaps even misdirected means to an end, and (2) mostly just a way to stir up a bit more confusion here on the forum.

    Thanks for asking. Personally, I'm not enthusiastic ... as you can perhaps guess by now.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    A key motivation of the US government behind these "Ranchers vs the Bureau of Land Management (BLM)" conflicts, in my estimation, is for the US government to obtain "clear title" (defacto at least) to the massive extents of land, mostly in the Western US and Alaska, that it currently holds or claims.

    When a financial entity (be it an individual, a business, or a government) goes bankrupt, one key step in the view of our financial overlords is to confiscate, repossess or foreclose on whatever property that entity might claim title to. In the case of governments, that often means "privatizing" various property, resources and income streams (such as tax and utility revenue) that that government "owned". "Privatizing" means "selling", under duress, at "fire sale prices", the asset to a Bankster controlled organization or corporation.

    In other words, legalized theft, on a grand scale.

    So, in my view, the US government is "clearing the books" for a fire sale of massive amounts of land in the Western US and Alaska, as part of its upcoming bankruptcy proceedings. The government is, of course, working on behalf of our financial overlords in this matter, not on behalf of the people of the United States.

    I am exploring the underlying financial/monetary/economic structure of this system, over on the thread Spinning our wheels - a monstrous monetary/economic/financial metaphor.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 18th February 2016 at 10:25.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    We are seeing a number of feints by the US government and controlled media, all in my view with three primary purposes:
    1. Smoke out those who would resist the bankruptcy proceedings and privatization of the US federal government and its assets ... determine who is the resistance.
    2. Build up through preliminary exercises the governments trusted abilities to put down any such resistance.
    3. Numb the alarm that most ordinary citizens might have, when the real bankruptcy proceedings occur.
    These feints include these Bundy related rancher vs BLM standoffs, LaVoy's murder, warnings that the Russians or Chinese or UN are going to invade, the Jade Helm alarms, ...

    Of course, to LaVoy personally, his murder, if such it was and that seems likely, was very "real", not just a feint. But in the larger scheme of things, he's just one person of whom few even knew a few months ago.
    Last edited by ThePythonicCow; 18th February 2016 at 11:12.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Hi everyone,

    I’ve updated my post # 191 to clarify certain aspects of the fund-raising idea (or proposal) for the LaVoy family and the rest of the victims of the Oregon situation.

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    In any case, the first step about this proposal would be to open a Poll to do a public brainstorming to see how this initiative could be organized, and to see what people think about it, so that they can give their inputs, their opinions, etc.
    Poll's make sense when the choices are already clear cut.

    Brainstorming makes sense when the situation is more nebulous.

    In this case, I think that Brainstorming is the appropriate tool, and any such poll would be (ab)using the poll mechanism more as a means of publicizing the brainstorming thread, than as a means of obtaining the useful preferences of those voting in the poll on an already reasonably complete, well defined, specified and non-controversial set of alternatives.
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  31. Link to Post #197
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Hi everyone,

    The real reason why the corrupt elite murdered LaVoy and imprisoned the rest (Bundy’s, Buda, Ryan Payne, etc.) is because LaVoy & Co. were starting to be very successful in publicising the truth of a noble cause: how the regular people can get rid of the corruption of the system, BLM land grabs, Agenda 21, police state, Feds abuses and over-reaching, etc., etc.

    In fact, the day the elite’s mercenaries murdered LaVoy, his group was going to a meeting in John Day with around 400 people (ranchers, constitutional Sheriff Palmer, etc.) to educate them about the truth of all those things.

    In other words, LaVoy & Co.’s truth movement was rapidly growing to “dangerous levels” (from the elite’s POV.)

    Thanks to LaVoy & Co’s (Bundy’s, etc.) excellent job and successful truth publicity campaign, “too many” regular people (ranchers, Sheriffs, etc.) were learning an “inconvenient” lesson: how to be free from the oppression of a corrupt system.

    And that’s exactly what the corrupt elite don’t want: for the “virus” of truth to spread too much.

    The elite would prefer for everybody (regular people) to keep being ignorant and passive, and for the truth to disappear or at least be contained in a small hermetic box.

    The corrupt elite thrive in a sea of lies irrigated by the ignorance of the regular people.

    The corrupt elite thrive in a sea of nice words without effective actions of the regular people.

    Quote “Thoughts create. Words create. Actions create.”
    (American Kabuki)
    Moreover, the suppression, censorship, and containment of truth to keep people ignorant and passive would guarantee that the elite keep its power and control, and that the regular people keep being slaves.

    In other words, what the corrupt elite don’t want is this:
    What the corrupt elite don’t want is “truth publicity” because, then, the sleeping population will wake up and the corrupt elite might lose its power.

    In fact, that’s why the elite has such tight control of MSM and aggressively censors truth and practices the opposite thing 365 days/year: “lies publicity.”

    This is indeed an “Information War” (as Alex Jones puts it), a psychological war for the control of the human mind (as “Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars” puts it), so that humans keep sleeping, don’t wake up, and remain passive and enslaved.
    The proposed Poll of post # 191 (about LaVoy & Co’s Crowdfunding-fundraising) would serve 4 purposes (or goals) simultaneously, at the same time:
    1) As a fund-raising tool to aid the victims of the Oregon event (LaVoy’s family and the arrested-indicted ones), because one of the dirty strategies of the corrupt elite is to bankrupt its victims (Ex: victims have to pay expensive lawyers, judicial fees, bails, they loose their properties, their jobs, etc.)

    2) As a public brainstorming to allow everybody to give their inputs and opinions about how this Crowdfunding-fundraising proposal could be done in a proper way, etc.

    3) As an effective and legitimate tool to publicize this noble cause, to publicize truth, so that many more people learn about it, wake up, and can help the innocent victims (LaVoy’s, Bundy’s, Hammonds, arrested and indicted persons, etc.)

    4) As an effective and legitimate tool to obtain specific type of important data (numerical data Ex: number of people who support different options) which is harder or impossible to obtain with regular threads. That’s why forum softwares (vBulletin) include a “Poll option”. Polls are used all the time and everywhere to obtain numerical data.
    Those 4 goals are useful, important, and legitimate.

    Those 4 goals will help the innocent victims of the corrupt elite.

    To put obstacles to any of those 4 goals would be to help the cause of the corrupt elite, not the people, and especially would not help the cause of the direct victims of the Oregon’s injustice: LaVoy’s, Bundy’s, Hammond’s, Ryan Payne, Buda, the arrested and indicted persons, thousands of ranchers, and humanity as a whole.

    -----------------------------------

    A call to action to any real patriots out there:
    Please, users of Avalon forum, if any of you want to help waking up people, and if you happen to know real patriots or can contact them (including LaVoy’s, Bundy’s families, etc.), ask them to come to this thread and read post # 191 (pag. 10) about the Crowdfunding proposal to help them, and see what they think.

    If done properly, such a Crowdfunding initiative could help raising thousands or even millions of dollars to help the patriots and innocent victims of the Oregon’s injustice.
    Thanks.

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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    To put obstacles to any of those 4 goals would be to help the cause of the corrupt elite
    I disagree.

    Quote Posted by qbeac (here)
    A call to action to any real patriots out there:
    Please, users of Avalon forum, if any of you want to help waking up people, and if you happen to know real patriots or can contact them (including LaVoy’s, Bundy’s families, etc.), ask them to come to this thread and read post # 191 (pag. 10) about the Crowdfunding proposal to help them, and see what they think.

    If done properly, such a Crowdfunding initiative could help raising thousands or even millions of dollars to help the patriots and innocent victims of the Oregon’s injustice.
    Thanks.
    We, the forum moderators, do find it best that the forum not get too involved with money raising operations for other purposes or causes, outside of the donations made to Bill to keep the forum running.

    So if this effort gains any traction, I'd recommend that its focal point be primarily done on some other website, perhaps a special purpose website just for that purpose. So long as a website doesn't have a forum or heavy traffic, then it can be created for very little effort or cost, by someone with modest web skills.

    == edit == (For example: GoFundMe.Com, a popular crowd funding site, no fees - Sierra)
    Last edited by Sierra; 19th February 2016 at 23:02.
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    Default Re: Oregon Protest Leader Ammon Bundy arrested, LaVoy Finicum shot and killed

    Do Bundy Ranch Standoff Indictments Mean More Arrests are Imminent? Oathkeepers article by David Codrea.

    Now that they’ve unhorsed Cliven Bundy and his core adherents, will the feds now turn their attention to the remainder of his supporters?

    “Ammon Bundy, brother Ryan Bundy, Ryan Payne and Peter Santilli — already indicted in the armed takeover of a federal wildlife refuge in eastern Oregon — now face federal indictment along with Cliven Bundy in the 2014 armed standoff near the Bundy ranch in Nevada,” Maxine Bernstein of The Oregonian reported Wednesday.

    The indictment lists nine United States Code violations, including: “Conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States: Conspiracy to impede or injure a federal officer; Carrying a firearm in a crime of violence; Assault on a federal officer; Threatening a federal law enforcement officer; Obstructing justice; Interfering with interstate commerce by extortion; [and] Interstate travel in aid of extortion.” It also presents five forfeiture allegations leveled against “property obtained from the proceeds of their crimes, totaling at least $3 million, including cattle [and require the defendants] “to forfeit firearms and ammunition used in the April 12, 2014, standoff with federal authorities.”

    This action is leading to justifiable speculation and worries that others who assisted in security operations and who were at Bunkerville to show solidarity with the cause of resolving western land disputes may now find themselves rounded up. Some have seized on that and are issuing strident warnings that are long on alarm but short on corroboration beyond unsubstantiated claims of having “intel.”

    It may be that a massive operation is in the works, but to react imprudently without actual intelligence is a good way to escalate things to the favor of those who wish to discredit the Patriot movement. Some of us have seen appallingly bad “intel” happen in real time during the Malheur occupation, with supposedly credible reports of ground action occurring that later turned out to be completely false. There’s “intel,” there’s bad “intel,” and there’s flat-out disinformation put out there by secretive parties with agendas to force an emotion-driven move, and to entrap.

    The Bundys, through actions they initiated, provided situational opportunities to bring them in with minimal chances of pushback and risk to the “authorities.” A reason the government didn’t just go in full force to “Waco” either Bunkerville or Malheur is because their analysts knew not only would casualties play badly in the press for their political masters, but that there are those in other AOs capable of responding in places and ways no one could predict or prepare for. The subsequent distrust and rage fallout from the Finicum shooting has to convince those doing the cost/benefits analysis that massive brutal sweeps will provide plenty of opportunities for things to turn disastrous, both during operations and, significantly, afterward.

    Look at it this way: Just as being armed is a deterrent against an individual predator due to the uncertainty of a successful attack and the likelihood that he could be the one who loses everything, so too does that work on the societal scale. That’s one of the “design features” of an armed citizenry that acts as a safeguard by providing powerful incentives to all sides for peaceable alternatives.

    So is the message here not to worry, everything’s going to be OK?

    Of course not. We’re living in incredibly dangerous times.

    Our duty to our oaths and to ourselves requires us to stay alert and prepared. Of course we should have plans and contingencies for self-defense and for mutual defense – that’s just part of what we should already be doing. But that duty also includes being discriminating on what information we buy into, disseminate and react to, and to not play into the hands of those who intentionally throw out provocative lies, either so they can laugh at the rise they get, or so they can destroy.

    There are people in this organization — including those with skin in the game — working tirelessly behind the scenes to separate the wheat from the chaff, and doing the best they can with the resources at hand. Let’s all continue to keep our eyes open and to make sure we do our due diligence so that the sources we rely on are credible and worthy of our trust.

    So what happens if soon after this is posted we start seeing raids and roundups?

    No one has either a crystal ball or a reliable road map through hell. The best laid plans and all that. I guess we’ll find out.

    But the advantages of relying on good information still apply.
    Last edited by TrumanCash; 19th February 2016 at 23:03.

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    Last edited by TrumanCash; 22nd February 2016 at 03:39.

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