Parenting

[Flash]

Posted by jimrich (here)
DON'T KILL THE MESSENGER!

you are a very biaised messenger, if messenger at all. You are messenging i do not know what yet, you seem to be more for an argumentative stance about parenting than an informational one about doing it right.

Not that interesting truly.

On avalon, you dill not have many preneurs for argumentative sake only.

[AutumnW]

People on the forums here don't like fighting and arguing just for the sake of it, I've found.

I think, too, that there is a generational difference here. Older people who grew up with tremendous strictures and violence may not realize that one of the main social problems nowadays is things have swung too much the other way.

As a society we are currently dealing with too many kids and young adults who were always told they were the best the brightest and the most talented and never disciplined at all, in any way. So the message you preach, Jimrich, was clearly received by society a good thirty years ago and things swung too much in the other direction.

So like, where have you been?

[Justplain]

I would think that properly raising children is the most honorable thing a person can do. It takes unselfish love.

Bad parenting can be the source of many of people's worst problems. I dont think the scars left by an alcoholic, violently abusive upbringing can ever be fully eradicated. At best, a full awareness of its impact on one's personality can at least permit one to be less entrapped by it.

Hopefully, being aware of bad parenting's impact on one's self, the foregiveness process can begin, of one's parents and one's self. The latter is because people, especially children, often blame themselves for their parents' misbehaviour.

Once released from the burden of hatred, through some sort of understanding, then perhaps one can start to enjoy the good things this world and life have to offer. It may have a bittersweet taste, but this life is all we've got, for now.

[jimrich]

It seems that most folks know what bad or inadequate parenting is – too strict or too lenient, too harsh or permissive, too old fashioned or too modern, etc. but what is adequate or good parenting?
Let’s talk about your concepts of good parenting instead of what is wrong with my attitudes, opinions and me.
I’ll start.
Based on my parents parenting, I see good or adequate parenting as having the ability to promote and model love and respect within the parent’s family for their kids to adopt and copy in their own lives.
If our parents had loved and respected each other, which they did not, they would have influenced and conditioned my 1 year older brother to happily and loving accept me into their family.
Since, by the time I was born, our parent’s marriage was already dying (dad HAD TO marry mom) and there was very little love or respect in the family, my older brother was never influenced or conditioned to love or respect me but instead saw me as a menacing invader of his perfect little world and I was now taking his parents love and attention away from him so he absolutely HATED my guts from day one and brutally punished me whenever he could while nobody ever stopped him.
Adequate parents would have noticed my brother’s anger and brutality and then attempted to influence him to stop abusing me and begin lovingly accepting me as his respected brother and not his worst enemy.
Our two very inadequate parents just sat and laughed their butts off at our silly little toddler skirmishes but several years later, our funny little sibling rivalries became quite serious and violent fist fights!
Good parenting would have HELPED my brother happily accept me and then good parenting would have HELPED us happily accept our little sister when she came 4 years after me but, inadequate parenting allowed my brother and I to be mortal enemies and then turn on our little sister with jealous hatred when she was born. We had to be very careful how we abused our little sister because she was dad’s favorite and he would have murdered us if we ever harmed her. We just shifted over to teasing, verbal abuse and shunning her like a disease.
Good parenting could have easily HELPED us kids be best and most respectful friends the whole time and not bitter, spiteful enemies.

Good parenting would have taught my brother and I that lying and stealing is not OK.

I became quite a liar at a very early age when I discovered that the kids who lied to their parents and other adults usually got off with no punishments and were often rewarded. I was gullible and honest so, if I broke the neighbor’s window with a ball, I told my parents the truth and was usually severely punished whereas if other kids innocently said they didn’t know how the window got broken (when they did it) their parents happily accepted their LIE and sometimes gave them a reward for NOT breaking a window!
Good parenting would have taught us kids to be honest and righteous and trust that our parents would NOT shame or brutally punish us beyond reason for coming forward with the truth.
But my inadequate parents made it clear to me that I was NOT safe being honest with them and if I was stupid enough to tell the truth, I’D BE SERIOUSLY HURT or HUMILIATED!
They never told me to be a liar but their actions influenced me to become the biggest and best liar in our family! I also noticed that, if I lied to them (when I made some mistake) they were so RELIEVED whereas, if I told the truth about something that I did wrong, they would become very upset, abusive and personally HURT.
An adequate parent would make it safe and RIGHT for their kid to be honest with them which might include some kind of punishment but NOT unreasonable violent punishments like we often got.
An adequate parent would make it possible for their child to safely and respectfully come to them with any issues and not be afraid of the parents whereas bad parents, like mine, made it necessary for me to go underground and behind their menacing, abusive backs to “do my thing” and avoid their painful punishments and humiliations. They made it IMPOSSIBLE to trust or respect them!
A good parent would at least try to keep the love, respect, friendship and CONNECTION with their kid rather than see their kid start avoiding them and slowly begin drifting away into a separate and dark world away from their hostile and unloving parents - like what happened in our unhappy family.

We became thieves when we realized that stealing was cool and everyone was doing it, so the game was to do whatever you want – just don’t get caught. When I say everyone was doing it, I mean all the kids in our family, neighborhood and then later on at school.
Good parenting would have conditioned and influenced us to know that stealing is wrong and bad and that it can bring stiff penalties but there was a sort of unwritten “just don’t get caught” mentality in our family so my brother and I were not getting very good training about right and wrong.
We gravitated towards lying and stealing because of the “don’t get caught” rule which we thought we could beat. When I stole and lied, I NEVER thought of it as “right” or “wrong”!
If we had received good parenting, we would not have done or even been tempted to do those things even if other kids and our relatives were lying and stealing! There was a subtle but obvious lack of morals and dignity in our home, which inspired us to worship movie & comic book criminals and bad guys while holding contempt for heroes and lawmen.
I really loved and respected Roy Rogers but the moment I was out of the theater, my mind turned to lying, stealing and other naughty things right away!
Good and adequate parenting would have promoted: honesty, dignity, self respect, responsibility, sincerity, love and respect in our home and in our hearts and minds.
Inadequate parenting promotes just the opposite: fear of (old school) or contempt for (new generation) the parents.....Mistrust, hostility, ridicule, dishonesty, stealing, criminal behavior, sex crimes, white collar crime, new generation faults and failings, abandonment and other unsatisfactory conditions that loving and respectful parenting overcomes.
I’d like to read about your concepts for good, adequate parenting and how it has worked in you life or how you believe it COULD work in a child’s life.

[matissathepissa]

I was abused but always knew I was loved. My mom was a mean drunk. I was her baby so my sister got worse than I did. I have , I guess I have abuse guilt. But my mom changed. I live her dip much and she has guilt about the way she tasted us. She cried about it and beefs fir forgiveness. I told her i forgave her a long time ago. And i did. She is not the same person anymore. But enough of e. My mom had problems and healed as did i.

Back on subject. ..I try to speak truths with my son. The truth wI'll set you free...do true

[jimrich]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
People on the forums here don't like fighting and arguing just for the sake of it, I've found.

I think, too, that there is a generational difference here. Older people who grew up with tremendous strictures and violence may not realize that one of the main social problems nowadays is things have swung too much the other way.

Both strict and lenient parenting are damaging to a child and are WRONG! Adequate parenting does not Over do it or Under do it. Good parenting is intelligent parenting and knows how to find a balance between to much and to little.

As a society we are currently dealing with too many kids and young adults who were always told they were the best the brightest and the most talented and never disciplined at all, in any way.

That is an example of BAD parenting which FAILS to help kids find the middle ground and not stay stuck in one extreme (fear of parents) or the other extreme (contempt for parents). Good parenting manages that imbalance quite easily!

So the message you preach, Jimrich, was clearly received by society a good thirty years ago and things swung too much in the other direction.

Thirty years ago, there was BAD parenting and there's still BAD parenting today even!

So like, where have you been?

Who is asking? Who are you?

[jimrich]

Posted by matissathepissa (here)
..I try to speak truths with my son. The truth wI'll set you free...do true

Good for you! I'd like to be your kid!

[jimrich]

Posted by Justplain (here)
I would think that properly raising children is the most honorable thing a person can do. It takes unselfish love.

I don't know if you are a parent but, what would you say good or adequate parenting would be like. Please give some examples of good parenting in your opinion or personal experiences.
thanks,
jim

[Innocent Warrior]

Member of "the parent club" here.

Good parenting skills, hmm, let's see...

Well I was abused and neglectd as a child too, so love and plenty of attention for my son has always been at the top of my priorities list, obviously, like a lot of parents. Probably the most important lesson I learned was to allow him to be him, because I never even thought of that before he came along, as obvious as it seems in hindsight. Earlier on I had some well intentioned ideas on what a good parent would do, like making sure he learned an instrument, that he went to boy scouts and was part of a sports team and had good grades lol. Well, my son is rather resilient against being told what he should do and I didn't get that far with all of my ideals and ended up learning the importance of listening to what he has to say on who he is and what he's interested in doing.

I've been very lucky, he's been an easy child, well mannered, very loving, bright and wise beyond his years. He's growing into a bright young man who's comfortable in his skin, with plans of being a video game developer. I taught him to follow his joy and that's what his answer was when I asked him what he thought the most fun job he could think of was, so OK.

I guess you could say he's taught me as much about being a parent as I've taught him about life on this planet, in this world. So far so good.

I've only had one child so far because I didn't want to spread myself too thin for fear of messing up like my parents did, but TargetT is right you know, it's completely different being on the other side of that coin. You go into it with all these ideals and plans on how you're going to be a better parent than your parents and you end up discovering things about yourself you'd never considered before this precious child came into your life, this precious child with all his own ideas on what he needs from his Mum and Dad. And so the learning begins.

[jimrich]

Posted by Innocent Warrior (here)
Probably the most important lesson I learned was to allow him to be him,

Thanks 4 this post. Your post is both powerful and significant and I hope a lot of adults, parents or otherwise, come to read what you so eloquently have written here about your parenting and your son.
Love and respect,
jim

[greybeard]

There are many cases where children of the worst parents have become good and happy parents them selves.

There are cases where the children who had good and kind parents became evil.- even killed their parents for money.

The most difficult and rewarding thing is to be a parent.
You are responsible 24 hours a day--you are limited in what you can do ie in the spur of the moment you cant just go some where without arranging "baby" sitter.

Good parenting is an art--you cant really be taught it though advice helps.

Having "bad" parents does not mean you have to be a bad parent.

Whatever mother you have, she went through the pain of birthing you carrying you in the womb for 9 month.

I would not dream of talking about being a woman and giving birth or raising a child as a mother because its out with my experience.

Whatever I felt about the treatment received from parents I would not talk about it on open forum particularly as they are not alive to explain defend their actions--expressing at a 12 step group is different and confidential.

Chris

[jimrich]

More on good, adequate parenting.
If my brother and I had been given good/adequate parenting, we might have gone out into the world with good and noble intentions but, our parents were not very good role models for noble or dignified pursuits so my brother, who was a juvenile thief, finally made it into the big time and went to prison for armed robbery. I wanted to be a thief but was just to scared of the law and authorities so I chickened out and went into the Army since I had no idea what to do with my life. In many ways, we were both seriously deprived of an adequate moral foundation so strangers, friends and even enemies had to help us fill up the blanks that our inadequate parents left in us.
Good parenting would have started us off with high, healthy and noble self esteem/worth. Good parenting would have given us some pride in our selves and much higher standards of behaviors and goals. Good parenting would have taught us how to: dress, carry our selves, talk, listen, love, express respect, honor others, help others, contribute to our communities, be law abiding rather than law fearing or hating and have some kind of spiritual foundation or respect. I cannot say enough about good parenting only because I never had much of it.
Our parents were industrious, hard working, intelligent, caring (somewhat), a religious mom, exceptionally skilled and ambitious, sometimes quite heroic and noble BUT...... all of that simply could not offset the huge array of negative behaviors and beliefs of theirs that had such destructive effects on their kids - particularly their two boys.
What say ye about good parenting????

[jimrich]

Posted by greybeard (here)

Whatever I felt about the treatment received from parents I would not talk about it on open forum

To each his own!

[greybeard]

Jimrich with respect almost every post is about you and the bad parenting you had.
I dont doubt its true and was horrific.
Your 78 years of age--no longer a child.

Ch

[jimrich]

Posted by greybeard (here)
Jimrich with respect almost every post is about you and the bad parenting you had.
I dont doubt its true and was horrific.
Your 78 years of age--no longer a child.

Ch

......and your point is..?

[greybeard]

jimrich elsewhere you quote spiritual teachers, you are obviously knowledgeable on the subject--you have spent years studying Advaita.

One of the main teachings is to be in this moment to let go of the past.
Can you not do that?--pain and suffering belong in the past.

Its not necessary to buy into every thought that comes up.
You like Mooji--what would he say to you at a Satsang if you talked repeatedly about things that happened many years ago?

I have scars on my body from a sledging accident that nearly took my life--I would go sledging tomorrow.
Nearly drowned twice--I would go swimming tomorrow--what is there to limit me? Only a thought that I cant.
Thoughts come and go --they are transient--they dont rule my life.
I dont avoid them, deny them--I just dont feed them, give them energy.

Chris

[greybeard]

Im off to take my wife Rosaline to the plane to Cameroon where she was born and bred--she will be doing more over there to help young children get a good education part of parenting

The charity she started is in my signature.
That helps kids get a good start in life through education.

Chris

[Justplain]

Hi Jimrich, yes i am both a parent and a step-parent. These roles have provided some of the most rewarding, and challenging, moments of my life.

Examples of good parenting:

- being supportive and affectionate, especially in a time of need, such as giving deserved praise and a hug when needed (children need hugs, kisses and hand holding especially at younger ages)
- disciplining when necessary, such as after misbehaviour like stealing or not doing chores, etc., mostly by depriving the child of something they like, such as tv or computer time, or going to bed early.
- being consistent in how the child is treated, rewarding and punishing, in reasonable quantities when deserved
- feeding them nourishing food
- restricting the child's access to negative influences, such as violent or anti-social media (my daughter doesnt watch much tv except sports with me, no net surfing either except for school related stuff)

Bad parenting:

- beating kids
- not showing enough attention to them when needed
- being inconsistent
- providing bad food
- not regulating media activity

Hope that helps.

[Baby Steps]

I had a fairly stable family start, although I was the first and my mum was, as she always says, immature and not equal to the challenge of me, her first, bright, imaginative, creative and demanding child-1 of 4.

We had an oppositional and conflict filled early relationship.

I remember once making a toy aeroplane kit and showing it to her. I was disappointed by her reaction-maybe not enough praise & acknowledgement, triggered me to smash up my toy.

Family grew and progressed & was chaotic as you can imagine. Parenting could be harsh, particularly when trying to control 4 at once.

my dark thoughts & depression probably started at about 7, and I started climbing out in my early 20's. the Spiritual journey has been such a help.

I started concentrating on this dis-functional relationship. Later my mum would indulge in self-flagellation (not literally) - saying that she was a bad parent, I was badly brought up, not loved enough, not encouraged enough etc.

My spiritual work, meditation and prayer brought forth the following:

1. I had to heal whatever resentments, hurts, blame that I carried towards my mum.
2. I did not know , or want to know what the karmic play was-it was just two damaged people fighting & needed to be healed.
3. I made it a mission to help her with her guilt and regret.
4. I realised that the best way for me to heal her guilt & regret was to become a happy, functional & productive person

Great progress has been made and I am sure it is a big part of my journey back to stability. The icing on the cake is that having our own child has presented a great opportunity. My mum, bless her, has had the opportunity to do alot of 'Granny duty', of course she loves it. She is the third parent. We see her regularly & she loves staying with us. Her other grandchildren are abroad. The boy is, of course , having a much happier start than I did, it has all been a very healing experience for everyone.

For me it is another way of grasping this 'there is only one' principal. I will not examine what karma there may, or may not have been. I will not deal in blame. I will just heal whoever I can. If I could not heal myself, at least I tried to heal 'the other party', and of course found my own healing along that journey...

God bless.

[Sueanne47]

Posted by jimrich (here)
inadequate parenting allowed my brother and I to be mortal enemies and then turn on our little sister with jealous hatred when she was born. We just shifted over to teasing, verbal abuse and shunning her like a disease.

OMG I can relate to that!! but Dad didnt treat me like a favourite or let me have an opinion.

I'm a parent as well, Emma my daughter who's 21 has only just started to talk to me (a little though ~ she is arrogant, haughty & an independant Annie!) so I've been quiet to let her come to me..but Dad did put a word in her ear. Good parenting includes letting the child speak and have an opinion so they can let their confidence grow but also give them guidance that they can take or leave, also having fun together forms a glue between you, after all we dont want them to look back and have bad thoughts as a child.