The Fat Thread

[TargeT]

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
That is not incorrect at all, there are certainly other factors; but to say that is incorrect is not something I comprehend... why is there opposition to this very basic idea?

Perhaps Flash was thinking of the sustainable, long term, but didn't explicitly use such words ?

I think that's very probable.

I also think grammar is EXTREMELY important, it is the first of the 7 liberal arts for a very important reason... here we are spinning our wheels using words but meaning other things...

makes for confusing conversation when the definition of the words we trade with each other do not stay constant.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Paul (here)
"Will Power" can dominate the statistics (the number on your bathroom scales) in the short term, but will not provide long term health benefits.

I disagree, will power is all that matters. Will power is what makes you decide to change the way you eat, will power is what pushes you to exercise, will power is what motivates you to research & try out different options to see which one works for you.

Will power is an essential element of intentional behaviour, yes.

But given inadequate awareness, it's woefully insufficient.

One can pound a screw into wood with a sledge hammer - yes - but the result will not hold nearly as well as noticing that it's a screw, not a nail, and that a screwdriver with the proper shaped and sized bit would work a lot better.

...

Just really, really, wanting that screw to go in the wood is not sufficient to get it done, well.

[ThePythonicCow]

Posted by TargeT (here)
makes for confusing conversation when the definition of the words we trade with each other do not stay constant.

Sometimes reading the real meanings behind the words we speak or write is like guessing what my cat really wants ... communication apparently has to engage at several levels to be successful. Some Most of these levels are outside our conscious awareness, not to mention beyond our ability to verbalize fluently.

[Dianamar]

Target and Flash both make good points to consider for weight loss but what im seeing in this is in terms of general weight loss measures ALL methods need to be considered and then TAILORED to the individual.

With the TED video from Flash ( excellent video btw ) we see cutting carbs helps with type 2 diabetes. So Targets theory ties in with that by lowering calorie intake in the form of carbs. So you guys are both correct

So can we now look at the other cause of obesity and that is stress stress from two obviously intelligent people trying to help one another....

Target i tried your version of weight loss and it worked for me. Flash i tried your methods and it worked too ... but sometimes one will work better for one individual than the other.

So can we agree you both have excellent points and just kiss and make up ? ( where is my batting eyelash emoticon ? )

[Ki's]

There are some pretty simple 'tricks' that can pretty much guarantee attaining and maintaining a healthy weight without going hungry. They are as follows:

1. ALWAYS EAT BREAKFAST. When you don’t eat first thing after waking, your body thinks there is a potential food shortage and slows down your metabolism to conserve energy stores. There is an old saying that you should eat like a king for breakfast, a prince for lunch and a pauper for dinner. Breakfast should be your biggest meal of the day.

2. ALWAYS EAT REAL FOOD. Non-GMO, Organic, no hormones, no antibiotics. This is becoming easier in the US as more big companies are getting on the 'non-gmo' bandwagon. Ya, it's a bit pricier, but I don't have to spend money on medication or diet aids, so I figure it equals out.

3. USE WEIGHTS TO EXERCISE WITH. Work on building muscle instead of burning off fat. Muscle jacks up your metabolism and is more efficient at burning calories, so increase muscle mass. Heavy weights, hard workout, 30 minutes, three times a week.

I'm 64 yrs old, 5'7" 122lbs and I EAT A LOT...I mean I really eat a lot. I have never counted calories and my diet regularly includes, whole milk, butter, wine, chocolate, cheese and bread.

Your body also wants you to eat in season. That means in the spring, lamb, young chicken, asparagus, greens....summer is tomato's, (mmm. caprese salad) berries, fresh fish, broccoli....fall is apples, squash, bean soup and corn bread, cabbage turned into sauerkraut and winter is thick stews, soups, casseroles and thick crusty breads.

Stress will contribute to weight gain, but remember when you were a kid and you couldn't wait to get home, change your clothes and go outside to play? Keep doing that. Play baseball, climb a tree, play tag, have a snowball fight....just play.
I have the advantage of 29 acres to play on and my son and I each have apple tree's. We play a family game called apple baseball (because it just makes such a lovely, satisfying splat when the bat connects with the apple.) That's stress relief. The kids are happy and sticky, the adults are happy and sticky and the ducks and chickens clean up the apple mess, so it's a win/win.

Real food, real play, real work.

[Flash]

Oh please Target, you are presumably in an international forum here. Words do not have precisely the same meanings between NY and California and Florida and still more discrepancies with British, but all speak the English language. Let alone when members'mother tongue is not English. It surely takes me twice as much time as English speaking member here to write those dam posts and you can notice that every single one is usually revised a few time for Grammar. And yet, they are filled with mistakes

So, if you do not have any leeway in your mother tongue to manage it slightly differently than you personnally do usualky, then nobody should or can write here.

In other words, we all have to read a bit between lines and verify our understanding. Therefore use patience and good will, and presume other members do the same.

Now the opposition to your basic calories count is perceived as opposition by you only

personnally, i truly thought you would be happy to learn something new in the video.

Plus, how can one have will power to diet or change food habits when in fact obese are nutrients starving people. Their body screams for nutrients not found anymore in GMO foids, in over exploitation of fields depleting them of nutrients for veges, with bodies so messed up that they cannot process the remaining nutrients properly therefore further depleting the body, etc

In that Paul is right. Low caloric count will work for a little while, the body will adapt by making weight gain much easier because it is starving more for nutrients than it already was before dieting. And the vicious cicle starts with people gaining weight at starvation caloric Levels. Eating less or no carbohydrated is fine but adresses only half of the problem. The real problem is why are we eating so badly and how much nutrients are to be found in good foods. The second half has zero to do with will power and destroys the diet efforts.

Seems easy to understand!! How come you don't? In a few sentences here, the obesity epidemic is explained.

All this with outstanding will power from these obese.

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Paul (here)

Posted by TargeT (here)
That is not incorrect at all, there are certainly other factors; but to say that is incorrect is not something I comprehend... why is there opposition to this very basic idea?

Perhaps Flash was thinking of the sustainable, long term, but didn't explicitly use such words ?

I think that's very probable.

I also think grammar is EXTREMELY important, it is the first of the 7 liberal arts for a very important reason... here we are spinning our wheels using words but meaning other things...

makes for confusing conversation when the definition of the words we trade with each other do not stay constant.

[TargeT]

Posted by Flash (here)
Oh please Target, you are presumably in an international forum here. Words do not have precisely the same meanings between NY and California and Florida and still more discrepancies with British, but all speak the English language. Let alone when members'mother tongue is not English. It surely takes me twice as much time as English speaking member here to write those dam posts and you can notice that every single one is usually revised a few time for Grammar. And yet, they are filled with mistakes

So, if you do not have any leeway in your mother tongue to manage it slightly differently than you personnally do usualky, then nobody should or can write here.

In other words, we all have to read a bit between lines and verify our understanding. Therefore use patience and good will, and presume other members do the same.

Now the opposition to your basic calories count is perceived as opposition by you only

personnally, i truly thought you would be happy to learn something new in the video.

What do you feel I need to learn, why do you think that video had something special for me?

BTW, I never said "count calories" I think that's a funny way to live (especially since "calories" are sort of a made up crap term..) I simply pointed out that the volume of food consumed is has a strong relationship to the amount of fat stored, or used, by the body; there are many many factors that modify this, but this is the basic foundation it all stems from.

Posted by Flash (here)
Plus, how can one have will power to diet or change food habits when in fact obese are nutrients starving people. Their body screams for nutrients not found anymore in GMO foids, in over exploitation of fields depleting them of nutrients for veges, with bodies so messed up that they cannot process the remaining nutrients properly therefore further depleting the body, etc

what are you saying here?

Do we need to define willpower as well (I do take a more Nietzsche based view on it.. and I quote" his philosophy generates passionate reactions running from love to disgust")

By typing this post you exhibited willpower, everything we do is a product of "willpower".

Posted by Flash (here)
In that Paul is right. Low caloric count will work for a little while

That's all I was saying.. but Paul is right?

Posted by Flash (here)
the body will adapt by making weight gain much easier because it is starving more for nutrients than it already was before dieting. And the vicious cicle starts with people gaining weight at starvation caloric levels.

Millions (hundreds of thousands? Does unintended Ketosis count? (africa etc..))of Ketosis practitioners disagree.. My last 3 years of life disagree... "starvation" as you put it is the natural state for our bodies, that's WHY Ketosis works so well and WHY you have increased brain functioning and smoother energy levels.. but that's a whole other topic

Suffice it to say: Fasting is amazing for you, historically this was known by nearly everyone; that's why fasting is in so many religions and other disciplines.

Posted by Flash (here)
Seems easy to understand!! How come you don't?

All this with outstanding will power from these obese.

I don't think you comprehend what I am saying, or don't want to. From this stems your confusion on my level of understanding.

[Dianamar]

Ok so no kissies then ? lol

[ozmirage]

The answer to the source of widespread obesity may be found in this informative video
-- - -- - --
What is so special about the human brain?
http://www.ted.com/talks/suzana_herc...he_human_brain
- - - -- - - --

Another factor is the brain fooling combinations of sugar, salt, vinegar and grease.
Taken alone, each is unpalatable beyond a certain point. But combined - wuh woh.
Ex: butter + powdered sugar = icing; salt + grease; salt + vinegar + oil; and so on.

[TargeT]

Posted by Dianamar (here)
Ok so no kissies then ? lol

Flash isn't being mean (just expressive) and neither am I.

plus I'm married

[Dianamar]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Dianamar (here)
Ok so no kissies then ? lol

Flash isn't being mean (just expressive) and neither am I.

plus I'm married

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Bfx7izBNHeI

[Flash]

Thanks and true for both of us

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by Dianamar (here)
Ok so no kissies then ? lol

Flash isn't being mean (just expressive) and neither am I.

plus I'm married

[Cara]

This study wich looks at dopamine and opioid neurotransmission in behavioural addictions - Gambling and Binge Eating - was linked on Catherine Austin-Fitts website - The Solari Report - where she and her team weekly post links to articles in Money and Markets, Geopolitics, Science and Technology, Food and Health, Life, and Wildcards.

//
Dopamine and Opioid Neurotransmission in Behavioral Addictions: A Comparative PET Study in Pathological Gambling and Binge Eating.
Majuri J, Joutsa J, Johansson J, Voon V4, Alakurtti K, Parkkola R, Lahti T, Alho H, Hirvonen J, Arponen E, Forsback S, Kaasinen V.

Abstract
Although behavioral addictions share many clinical features with drug addictions, they show strikingly large variation in their behavioral phenotypes (such as in uncontrollable gambling or eating). Neurotransmitter function in behavioral addictions is poorly understood but has important implications in understanding its relationship with substance use disorders and underlying mechanisms of therapeutic efficacy. Here, we compare opioid and dopamine function between two behavioral addiction phenotypes: pathological gambling (PG) and binge eating disorder (BED). Thirty-nine participants (15 PG, 7 BED and 17 controls) were scanned with [11C]carfentanil and [18F]fluorodopa positron emission tomography using a high-resolution scanner. Binding potentials relative to non-displaceable binding (BPND) for [11C]carfentanil and influx rate constant (Ki) values for [18F]fluorodopa were analyzed with region-of-interest and whole-brain voxel-by-voxel analyses. BED subjects showed widespread reductions in [11C]carfentanil BPND in multiple subcortical and cortical brain regions and in striatal [18F]fluorodopa Ki compared with controls. In PG patients, [11C]carfentanil BPND was reduced in the anterior cingulate with no differences in [18F]fluorodopa Ki compared with controls. In the nucleus accumbens, a key region involved in reward processing, [11C]Carfentanil BPND was 30-34% lower and [18F]fluorodopa Ki was 20% lower in BED compared with PG and controls (p<0.002). BED and PG are thus dissociable as a function of dopaminergic and opioidergic neurotransmission. Compared with PG, BED patients show widespread losses of mu-opioid receptor availability together with presynaptic dopaminergic defects. These findings highlight the heterogeneity underlying the subtypes of addiction and indicate differential mechanisms in the expression of pathological behaviors and responses to treatment.

Neuropsychopharmacology accepted article preview online, 24 November 2016. doi:10.1038/npp.2016.265.

PMID:
27882998
DOI:
10.1038/npp.2016.265

//

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27882998


Some definitions and info that I used to try to understand the above ...

Carfentanil or carfentanyl (also known as 4-carbomethoxyfentanyl) is an analog of the synthetic opioid analgesic fentanyl. It was found to be four orders of magnitude or 10,000 times more potent than morphine, making it one of the most potent known and the most potent commercially used opioids.

Fluorodopa, also known as FDOPA, is a fluorinated form of L-DOPA primarily synthesized as its fluorine-18 isotopologue for use as a radiotracer in positron emission tomography.[1] FD PET is a valid method for assessing the functional state of the nigrostriatal dopaminergic pathway. It is particularly useful for studies requiring repeated measures such as examinations of the course of a disease and the effect of treatment.

Positron emission tomography (PET)[1] is a nuclear medicine, functional imaging technique that is used to observe metabolic processes in the body. The system detects pairs of gamma rays emitted indirectly by a positron-emitting radionuclide (tracer), which is introduced into the body on a biologically active molecule.

Anterior cingulate cortex


Opiod receptors are distributed widely in the brain, and are found in the spinal cord and digestive tract. ...By the mid-1960s, it had become apparent from pharmacologic studies that opiate drugs were likely to exert their actions at specific receptor sites, and that there were likely to be multiple such sites.

Mu-opiod receptors (μ)
Subtypes:μ1, μ2, μ3
Location:
1. brain
* cortex (laminae III and IV)
* thalamus
* striosomes
* periaqueductal gray
* rostral ventromedial medulla
2. spinal cord
* substantia gelatinosa
3. peripheral sensory neurons
4. intestinal tract

Function:
μ1:
* analgesia
* physical dependence
μ2:
* respiratory depression
* miosis
* euphoria
* reduced GI motility
* physical dependence
μ3:
* possible vasodilation

[TargeT]

Why does it seem that obese people have difficulty loosing weight?

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=tiQevGDPgRY

Diets, caloric restriction and fat loss function..
Very interesting short discussion about this topic:

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=R9E3q28TW9M

Nutrient deprivation (fasting) universally extends life across all biological models (with minor exceptions).

[Flash]

The answer: Akkermansia Muciniphila • Weight Loss Bacteria at Your Service

One of hundreds of articles published recently, researchs replicated many times and now research to raise the bacteria in culture or otherwise.

It has been found that out of the 2 kilos (5 pounds) of bacteria we carry in our bellie, slim people have on average 4% of Akkermansia Municiphilia bacteria. While fat people who cannot lose weights despite low calories diets have almost 0% of the given bacteria.

When, in studies, the sh t of slim people which contents 4% of the bacteria is transfered to those who cannot lose weight, a miracle happens: they lose weight naturally, without having to diet.

This bacteria is killed by antibiotics and of course many pesticides etc.

I was wondering why in Europe people are on average slim enough (although this is changing) and as soon as they move to Canada (my point of observation), they get fat, eating basically the same food they did eat in Europe (we find absolutely everything you can imagine in Montreal in terms of food). It takes a bare 7-10 years for women to get fat, and I have seen it again and again and again with Europeans coming in Canada.

The answer may be as simple as the destruction of their gut flora and consequently hormonal imbalance (hormones being helped by gut flora). Thanks to our very GMOed food (which was forbidden in Europe until recently) and many pesticides forbidden in Europe

https://www.probioticscenter.org/akk...a-weight-loss/

Bacteria with the amazing ability to control body weight really exist!

In a paper dated May 13, 2013, researchers at the University of Louvain, Belgium concluded that the probiotic bacteria Akkermansia muciniphila has the amazing ability to promote weight loss in humans.

How Akkermansia controls obesity


Akkermansia muciniphila research
Research has revealed hundreds of probiotic bacteria residing in the gut. Akkermansia is particularly interesting because of its unique ability to control weight. [Image courtesy of Photokanok at FreeDigitalPhotos.net]
In healthy individuals, this particular species of probiotic bacteria, Akkermansia muciniphila, make up 3-5% among hundreds of other gut bacteria. Almost all humans have it–from infants to elderly ones. However, in obese people, the level of A. muciniphila bacteria for some reason drops sharply.

This raises the intriguing question: How would an obese body react if we were to add the A. muciniphila to the diet? Could one single bacteria strain promote significant weight loss? The answer is yes, it seems that probiotic bacteria and weight control go hand in hand.

Research has revealed hundreds of probiotic bacteria residing in the gut. Akkermansia is particularly interesting because of its unique ability to control weight

Until the bacteria can be grown in labs, ingesting complete high quality pre and probiotics, eating lots of fibers and

In the case of very low A. muciniphila levels, here are a few additional suggestions - What may help to enhance the reproduction of the few A bacteria remaining in your guts.
:
◦Add a high-quality probiotic supplement.
◦Lower intake of sugar, carbs, processed food
◦Increase consumption of healthy fats, fresh vegetables.
◦Mango is a superfruit promoting growth of gut bacteria.
◦Cranberry extract can alleviate intestinal inflammation and increase Akkermansia population.
◦Consume fermented vegetables, yoghurt, kefir, natto and other fermented foods (without sugar).
◦Fish oil increases the abundance of Akkermansia muciniphila in test animals, which indicates a connection.

All what Rogan's invitee says is right (low caloric intake) for people who do not have imbalance in their system, but wrong for durable long term weight reduction (I have seen so many people on caloric restriction for years, yet not losing weight).

The video you posted Target are ultra interesting, for longevity on one hand and for weight recuction on the other.

I knew personally that I got overweight for 2 reasons: antibiotics at 8, which made me chubby a little but not overweight, and then chronic stress for over 15 years were my cortisol levels were constantly through the roof.

Then menopause with lower levels of oestrogen and testosterone which makes it extra difficult to reduce my weight (I am obese, but not morbidly). And I do not eat more than most of my female friends.