Trump is NOT the answer

[AriG]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
(But that would still be best for the country. Those wounds can be healed in time. But a Biden presidency — or a Harris-Clinton one — would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.)

Posted by Ken (here)
With the utmost respect, Bill, the problem with you doing this is that there are quite a few forum members who hold an opposing viewpoint. They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways and that the continuation of a Trump presidency would be deathly fatal to the US as we know it.

Posted by TargeT (here)
This is an open debate, facts have been offered and there is a very clear conclusion; when this post started it was needed as we "didn't know".


we have 4 years of DATA that backs up Bill's conclusion (not opinion).



This statement alone should be easily and clearly backed up by data:

They feel that Trump has been devastating for the US in a number of ways

That is the point of this thread.

I haven't seen anything to back up that statement other than putting the emphasis on "feel"; and that's ok but it's not tracking reality very closely currently.


no one is cowed into silence, they are asked for the reasons behind particular stances, this is the place for those reasons; un backed statements are not overly helpful.



aka: build your case

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Bill,

Anti racist? The forum is full of anti-racists? I perused the forum for less than 5 minutes after replying to some posts. This is what pops up on a thread written by Ernie Nemeth.


It is the white races that are under siege, the majority, and we had better ready ourselves for the onslaught. And although it is the medical tyranny being rolled out in the country right now, making it seem as though it is not about race, watch who ends up in those interment camps, and who doesn't.

That's for starters. I could go down the rest of your list, I am sure and note all of the contradictions.

Posted by TargeT (here)
So you are saying that Ernie's very real observation mean's he's racist?


That is a fact based observation, please tell us how it is incorrect and where you see the "racism" in it?

=====================================================

This isn't addressed to me but I will respond anyway. People are cowed into silence or have left in disgust. Able, intelligent and emotionally intelligent people. This "make your case," is beyond belief.

There are so many examples it is mind boggling. YOu, Target, who years ago stated there was no racism in the U.S. and then went on to insist other posters 'prove' that there is.

Trump's words and actions during the race riots, for one, betray his intent. He is a hard authoritarian. He trumpets at rallies, repeatedly that he has all the cops on his side.

Who does that? Seriously, what politician in their right mind would make a statement like that if they aren't trying to drive home the point that they have police backing, "so don't step out of line?" That's one example and it means something. It is 'felt' by those hearing it. And their 'feelings' are legitimate.

How do you think prey animals survive in the wild? Does a gazelle see a lion approaching and then proceed to work out logically whether they are in danger or not?

There is thinking, and then there is over thinking. Over thinkers are generally those whose emotions are not synchronized with their logic.

It takes both and there is an interplay between them that produces a symphony of appropriate reactions. Without the feeling part, you are basically wandering the musical landscape of life with a freaking kazoo.

I apologize for not highlighting just the relevant portion of this post, but I am usually replying from my phone. oooot and aboot as they say.

This is in response to the criticism of Ernie”s observation about white races in the crosshairs. A real world example:

My hisband worked for a very large technology company. He had over 300 people on his team. A decision was made that a black manager would need to be released from employ. Non performance after a generous progressive disciplinary process that lasted months, leaving little doubt with that manager that their future with the company was in serious jeopardy.

As part of the separation process, Department Heads, HR and legal would consult to ensure that they had violated no laws and had accumulated a sufficient paper trail to support the decision. In the meeting regarding the black manager, my hisband was asked by the head of legal, to “find a white guy to terminate as well, as insurance”. Of course, husband refused and took it to the COO.

As it would appear that very large corporations are so fearful of the race card, that they are willing to cherry pick someone based upon their white race, malign and terminate them to cover their asses. Now that isn’t just racism, it’s institutional racism and it is being directed toward the “ white guy” every day in corporations worldwide.

Another example is the application of what used to be called “affirmative action” being used as a tool for employment, college admissions, etc, essentially handicapping the scores of minority applicants. Skill set not relevant.

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If anyone is feeling a need for some humor and a break from all the stress, check out this site and by all means, watch the embedded video 😂

https://thetrumpybear.com/

[Ernie Nemeth]

The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

[AutumnW]

AriG, That never should have happened to your husband. It's not only unfair, it's stupid. Unfortunately blowback from real racism can take some bizarre forms and your husband and his company seems to have been victims of it.

It would be lovely if sanity would prevail.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

See my comments above, ERnie. Just because there are bizarre blowback reactions misapplied and strange doesn't obliterate the reality that real racism exists. And Canada is particularly racist, imho. That's why we have had such a crackdown on hate speech written into law. Government is trying to deal with a white population that is, imho, more racist than white Americans.Our generation, not so bad, but parent's generation...OMG

See below.

"Speaking in her Atikamekw language Echaquan asked for someone online to help and to “come see me”. According to family members, Echaquan said she was over medicated and had been administered morphine, despite being allergic to it. In the seven-minute video, Echaquan can be seen writhing and shouting as a nurse and healthcare aide are heard telling her, in French, that she was “stupid as hell” and would be “better off dead”.

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2...echaquan-death

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
"Individuals who worked for the Trump for President campaign, Republican National Committee, and affiliated organinzations and contributed to undermining confidence in the American electoral process and the objectivity of fair journalism with baseless claims."

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names. I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected. It seems to be aimed at those close to the hard fascists though. In other words, those who were willing to throw the US under the bus, through propaganda and other means, shouldn't profit from it. These would be people like Rupert Murdoch, etc...

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Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Target,

As much as I like Ernie, I think anyone making the statement that the white race is under siege, is likely a racist. Nobody should be gobsmacked with horror that most people would reach that conclusion. They may try to get around it using tortured logic, devoid of emotional intelligence and that would be their problem. It becomes MY problem when this line of thinking gains popularity and is expressed at the polls. Like I said before, the U.S. has dodged the hard fascist, racist bullet.

Prove me wrong. (See, again, two can play that game)

Hi Jess, Critical Race Theory is nothing but repackaged racism, directed at whites. It begins and ends with the premise that all white people are racist. I challenge you to arrive at a more racist statement than that.

It's a doctrine that's not just being taught to university students - my 10 year old niece is being taught this sh!t too. Corporate America/Big Tech is being indoctrinated as well, and the media is right behind them, supporting it all.

Critical Race Theory also states that if you disagree with it's premise, it's just further proof of your racism. Because to them, it's not a premise. It's the absolute truth. They are right, and you are wrong.

I can't think of anything more fascist and racist than that! Trump is actively trying to get CRT out of schools and gov entities.

This is very easy, straightforward logic. Not tortured in the least.

Not talking about 'critical race theory.' I am talking about reality.

You are denying reality.

Point is, CRT is now the foundational reality for our kids, university students, professors, corporate america, government, and our media. What's left?

They're all being taught the same thing - whites are bad, evil, racist people. So yeah , Ernie is right.

[AutumnW]

CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

[Gracy]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Okay AutumnW, I don't see how you can implicate the Right in any of this, at all, in the slightest. The Right has plenty to answer for such as neoconservatism for instance, but Critical Race Theory? Whew... I'm afraid that falls squarely on the faction of America's Left that I utterly detest with every fiber of my being. I reckon the only argument I have with those sounding the alarm bells on it, is a matter of how deeply that poison has permeated American society.

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

[Mike]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Ive said over and over again here that recent events have a lot less to do with racism than most of us think. So in that sense I agree with you that CRT is a smokescreen. But, except for a very small number of people, the ones teaching and learning it truly believe in it. And it is immensely harmful. It's like a cultural cancer.

These highly polarizing social issues that we're dealing with in America (and across the world) are perfect vehicles to usher in Marxism. Race issues, gender issues, trans issues...they all seek to weaponize our compassion. They use a murky vocabulary designed to deceive. "Equity" is one such word.. It means forced outcomes. It means Marxism.

I would guess that 95% of people here in the states do not know that. They just hear the word "equality" or "equity", and immediately jump on board. And if you oppose it? Well you must be racist then!

When you have Marxism hiding in the comfy confines of polarizing social issues, it is very difficult to criticize it, for the reason i just laid out...you will labeled a racist, a transphobe, a misogynist. And therein lies it's genius.

It won't allow us to make very basic observations without emotional accusations involving one or 3 of the things i just mentioned (racism, transphobia, misogyny). Your exchange with Target, regarding Ernie, illustrated this pretty well. Whether a smokesceen or not in the grand scheme of things, CRT has and is continuing to create a very anti-white ethos. As the years go on it will only get worse. It will be just as bad for blacks as it will be for whites. But, however you cut it, it has put white folks under siege. That seems quite clear to me. But uttering it invites all sorts of unfair accusations

[AriG]

Notes on critical race theory. I have personally experienced this phenomenon from both sides, having lived on or near the Mason Dixon line most of my life.

Racism is real. I can attest. I am a while woman in my fifties. I have on a number of occasions had social and or transactional interactions with other white people who “make assumptions” about where I may or may not stand regarding race. I have had merchants bemoan how the blacks have changed the landscape and brought in crime. Mind you, said merchants had just met me and would have no idea as to my familial or social relationships. Disgusting.

I have also been subjected to reverse racism. In 2007/2008, we were recruited to be therapeutic foster parents for severely abused/neglected children. Our first family group consisted of an African American sibling group of three. Ages 5, 3 and 18 months. These children (all from different fathers) had witnessed their mothers new man murder the eldest sibling (7 years) because he failed a math quiz. It took us months of coaching and support of these babies to get them to sleep through the night. Want to know why they sent the entire group back to father #2 even though two of them were not related and even though father #2 was a convicted felon? It was because I didn’t do a good enough job styling black hair and because the five year old had gained weight and could fit into her four year wardrobe any longer. Mind you, a wardrobe that I had replaced. But I bought Levi’s and not something called “apple bottoms”.

The second family group was two boys aged 4 and 18 months. Both failure to thrive. Due to u discovered food allergies that I uncovered. Their mother was schizophrenic and no fathers in the picture. We fixed them with love nutrition, and education. But, whenever we would take them out in public? African American adults would verbally assault us for having them with us.

So it goes both ways. Wrongs don’t make rights. This must stop on both sides, immediately. How can we make that happen?

And, btw? This all occurred during the Obama/Biden administration yep. Shows to go ya, race is irrelevant. Let’s get over it. Trump is not a racist. He has a lot of flaws but racism is t one.

[PurpleLama]

Posted by Gracy May (here)

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

Once again, I really hope you are right. But this thing has been festering in the background for decades, and is just starting to break out into the mainstream. I am not a pessimist by nature, but I am indeed afraid that this movement is just getting started.

To bring it back to topic, with DJT in office we might have a chance, but under Biden the critical theorists will feel they have a mandate. We finally repudiated all the backward racist Trump sycophants, so lets proceed to the compulsory anti-racist or whatever conditioning we think you need this week to keep your social credit score high enough to post online, take a bus to the store, have a job.

Lord have mercy, I hope you are right.

[T Smith]

Posted by AutumnW (here)

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names.

Then who are all these people/names?. These are staffers, department heads, consultants, Trump Administration mid-to-low level employees, etc., no? This looks like a doxxing list to me.

Posted by AutumnW (here)

I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected.

I suppose you could argue the verbiage and meaning of "profiting from" is vague, but I infer this to mean those connected to/associated with the Trump Administration need be purged from future employment opportunities in government/D.C. And even if we give the intent of this project the benefit of the doubt, its Bolshevik-style list is pretty creepy.... I sure wouldn't want to be on one.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Okay AutumnW, I don't see how you can implicate the Right in any of this, at all, in the slightest. The Right has plenty to answer for such as neoconservatism for instance, but Critical Race Theory? Whew... I'm afraid that falls squarely on the faction of America's Left that I utterly detest with every fiber of my being. I reckon the only argument I have with those sounding the alarm bells on it, is a matter of how deeply that poison has permeated American society.

I happen to see this as that it's very close to reaching it's ceiling so to speak, and will soon enough join the ever growing graveyard of terrible ideas, but that's for a different conversation.

I don't think you get that I am not saying I believe this but that it is plausible. I clearly qualified that.

It is possible that CRT, which is highly divisive and has come to be associated with the moderate left, was receiving funding from a segment of society that knew exactly how corrosive it could be? I don't know much about CRT, but what I have read sounds completely ludicrous. Could it have been given some help from those who wanted to have all 'liberals' tarred with the same brush?

Sure. It's possible. Why not? I don't for a minute think that all these shrill, earnest nutcases in academia are in on some kind of plot, but its amazing how much traction stupid ideas get if they have a LOT of money behind them from foundations etc...Read the 'Cultural Cold War'

Back in the day Ralph Nader, a far left guy received campaign financing from republicans...to split the dem's vote. Not a direct parallel but close enough.

Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

[AutumnW]

Posted by T Smith (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)

TSmith,

I don't see anything about taking down names.

Then who are all these people/names?. These are staffers, department heads, consultants, Trump Administration mid-to-low level employees, etc., no? This looks like a doxxing list to me.

Posted by AutumnW (here)

I do see that this organization's agenda is to disallow profiting from helping him get elected.

I suppose you could argue the verbiage and meaning of "profiting from" is vague, but I infer this to mean those connected to/associated with the Trump Administration need be purged from future employment opportunities in government/D.C. And even if we give the intent of this project the benefit of the doubt, its Bolshevik-style list is pretty creepy.... I sure wouldn't want to be on one.

I see a list of senior government appointees on a Columbia Journalism Review page. It seems to be politically neutral and doesn't include addresses or other private information. Am I missing something?

[AutumnW]

Posted by Mike (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
CRT is a smokescreen and a wedge social issue. Who benefits from pushing it? Is it helping Democrats. Nope. They lose votes over it. Is it possible it has become a 'false flag?' beginning say, 5 o r 6 years ago? Not saying I believe this, but it does make me wonder. That totalitarian tip toe coming from the left that you fear, might have been given a big boost from the right. They have all bases covered. Think they're dummies, behind the scenes?

Ive said over and over again here that recent events have a lot less to do with racism than most of us think. So in that sense I agree with you that CRT is a smokescreen. But, except for a very small number of people, the ones teaching and learning it truly believe in it. And it is immensely harmful. It's like a cultural cancer.

These highly polarizing social issues that we're dealing with in America (and across the world) are perfect vehicles to usher in Marxism. Race issues, gender issues, trans issues...they all seek to weaponize our compassion. They use a murky vocabulary designed to deceive. "Equity" is one such word.. It means forced outcomes. It means Marxism.

I would guess that 95% of people here in the states do not know that. They just hear the word "equality" or "equity", and immediately jump on board. And if you oppose it? Well you must be racist then!

When you have Marxism hiding in the comfy confines of polarizing social issues, it is very difficult to criticize it, for the reason i just laid out...you will labeled a racist, a transphobe, a misogynist. And therein lies it's genius.

It won't allow us to make very basic observations without emotional accusations involving one or 3 of the things i just mentioned (racism, transphobia, misogyny). Your exchange with Target, regarding Ernie, illustrated this pretty well. Whether a smokesceen or not in the grand scheme of things, CRT has and is continuing to create a very anti-white ethos. As the years go on it will only get worse. It will be just as bad for blacks as it will be for whites. But, however you cut it, it has put white folks under siege. That seems quite clear to me. But uttering it invites all sorts of unfair accusations

Hey Mike, Hold on there. I agree with you. I am just asking you to take a step back, breathe and mentally peel back a couple layers of the onion. The backlash it is getting is well deserved. The backlash may be supporting the real goals of actual hard core racists and extreme fascism. And that is putting it mildly. That's a maybe but worth thinking about, imho.

Ludicrous, is Canadians being hyper aware of race through CRT, the media etc...while real ugly racism, life ending and life threatening racism is ignored or blown off--because it is unseen. It happens to the vulnerable who are out of sight and out of mind.

[Gracy]

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

Sure, I get it, I just don't see any more evidence for that, than I see in this supposed widespread voter fraud. I'm not from Missouri, but I do have a deep appreciation for the "show me" sentiment.

[Deborah (ahamkara)]

I enjoy the healthy debate of ideas, but I would like to point out that the overconfident use of the term “racist” is dangerous, divisive, and inflammatory.. .

Someone can make what you “feel” to be a stupid statement without being stupid. One can make a joke about women in what you might “feel” to be in poor taste and not be a sexist. To call someone a derogatory term without really knowing or understanding that person’s true feelings and actions creates a great deal of friction and bad feeling. I don’t see the point. If a person is actually a racist, it would be far more constructive to provide evidence that supports a counter argument.

[AutumnW]

The Cultural Cold War---by Frances Saunders

“Frances Stonor Saunders has almost single-handedly started off a branch of sub-history: the cultural cold war. . . . An extraordinarily good book, and I recommend it to anyone.” —Ian McEwan

During the Cold War, freedom of expression was vaunted as liberal democracy’s most cherished possession—but such freedom was put in service of a hidden agenda. In The Cultural Cold War, Frances Stonor Saunders reveals the extraordinary efforts of a secret campaign in which some of the most vocal exponents of intellectual freedom in the West were working for or subsidized by the CIA—whether they knew it or not.

https://thenewpress.com/books/cultural-cold-war

[AutumnW]

Posted by Gracy May (here)

Posted by AutumnW (here)
Am I blaming the right for the weird left? No. I am saying the hard fascists have plans that go back decades and they might be boosting CRT for the backlash.

I mean, you do understand how deep cover works, right?

Sure, I get it, I just don't see any more evidence for that, than I see in this supposed widespread voter fraud. I'm not from Missouri, but I do have a deep appreciation for the "show me" sentiment.

I am not saying "I believe" "I am certain" I am saying it is worthy of consideration. If more people would qualify their ideas as that, rather than beliefs it would be helpful.

[AriG]

Something just occurred. What in the hell are we doing? To quote the great mind of Einstein (although he too has been partially debunked, but whatever)

“ No problem has ever been solved with the same level of consciousness that created it”. You all know the meme.

Why in the hell are we in the quagmire of common thought here? Can we not take this to the next dimension or two to earnestly try to figure out what is happening and how we as a collective, might combine energy to will the best possible outcome for humanity, not only in the present, but for those who inherit the “future”? Certainly we are better than splitting semantic hairs here.

[AutumnW]

Posted by Ernie Nemeth (here)
The idea that there is 'systemic racism' is a racist statement. What there is is 'systemic minorityism'. That is because we live in a democracy where the majority 50% + 1 rule the minority. That is what has been turned into systemic racism. And since the majority is white, of many sub-races however, systemic racism was invented to explain it.

But no, there is no systemic racism, but there is indeed systemic minorityism.

But if all minorities group themselves under the banner of POC, they would as a coalition attain majority far faster than as separate minorities. This is the liberal realization that galvanized the new reforming a few years back now. That is what I am talking about. My racism is well in check, thanks. (and with the greatest respect for Autumn's opinion, regardless of intent)

Ernie, I have had some close associations in Canada with both the rcmp and indigenous people, so believe me when I say there is definitely systemic racism in policing and the criminal justice system. Take a look too, at the article from Al Jazeera who did the best reporting of the recent incident in Quebec. This isn't a one off. Apparently it is quite common. We are a racist society.

If whites feel under seige it is because their is over focus and politically correct attitude in some corporate areas, while other social areas receive no attention whatsoever. And those areas like prisons, hospitals, anywhere people are vulnerable, have been ignored. Maybe because, in the case of the police, they are darned near impossible to police.