The Mandela Effect Poll

[Feritciva]

I still think this Shazaam thing is an international trolling. Cmon guys! I have WATCHED that movie! How come it doesnt exist?

[Satori]

Posted by seehas (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
The more widespread the "Mandela effect" rhetoric becomes, the more I will become convinced it is yet another psyop/BS-ability test like "flat earth."

Misremembering people/events is simply misremembering. We all eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, ...and we all have some memory lapses. I think it is very clever to blend that with the concept of alternate timelines, and declare that something really DID happen in the past, because we (mis)remember it as being that way. I accept my own shortcomings of my memory.

Dennis i realy understand your point here, and i would think the same as you but its realy not like you think at all, this is realy happening for some people and its not based on"bad memorys".

I got a few of these Effects that im more than 100% sure that the memory i recall was totaly different its not like i guess its wrong and i jump on the bandwagon.

For example one of these effects is the new zapruder movie for me, ive researched this alot back in the days and ive seen the zapruder movie hundreds of times before, the movie that is reality in this "timeline" is not the movie i can remember, its a totaly new one this realy struck me since its like history changed.

but as i said, i understand your opinion on this and i think i wouldnt even coment here if i had not have my own "effects" happening, even your comparission to the "flat earth" is something i would have signed directly

Respectfully, movies can easily be altered. Nature not so. There is no relevant equivalency in regard to the Mandela effect between a movie, which is an artifact (in the sense that it is man made and artificial), and nature, which is natural and not an artifact. The Zapruder film that was originally filmed at the moment of the assassination could have been, and many claim was, altered (at least once) for political reasons and to destroy evidence and avoid detection. Many commercial films have been altered even after release. The director's cut of a film is always different than the version initially released. Thus a person seeing one and then the other later would have a "Mandela" experience, but they would be mistaken.

[TinFoilSuit]

Posted by Satori (here)

Posted by seehas (here)

Posted by Dennis Leahy (here)
The more widespread the "Mandela effect" rhetoric becomes, the more I will become convinced it is yet another psyop/BS-ability test like "flat earth."

Misremembering people/events is simply misremembering. We all eat, sleep, go to the bathroom, ...and we all have some memory lapses. I think it is very clever to blend that with the concept of alternate timelines, and declare that something really DID happen in the past, because we (mis)remember it as being that way. I accept my own shortcomings of my memory.

Dennis i realy understand your point here, and i would think the same as you but its realy not like you think at all, this is realy happening for some people and its not based on"bad memorys".

I got a few of these Effects that im more than 100% sure that the memory i recall was totaly different its not like i guess its wrong and i jump on the bandwagon.

For example one of these effects is the new zapruder movie for me, ive researched this alot back in the days and ive seen the zapruder movie hundreds of times before, the movie that is reality in this "timeline" is not the movie i can remember, its a totaly new one this realy struck me since its like history changed.

but as i said, i understand your opinion on this and i think i wouldnt even coment here if i had not have my own "effects" happening, even your comparission to the "flat earth" is something i would have signed directly

Respectfully, movies can easily be altered. Nature not so. There is no relevant equivalency in regard to the Mandela effect between a movie, which is an artifact (in the sense that it is man made and artificial), and nature, which is natural and not an artifact. The Zapruder film that was originally filmed at the moment of the assassination could have been, and many claim was, altered (at least once) for political reasons and to destroy evidence and avoid detection. Many commercial films have been altered even after release. The director's cut of a film is always different than the version initially released. Thus a person seeing one and then the other later would have a "Mandela" experience, but they would be mistaken.

So, within the context of your comparison with artifacts, could you please clarify with an example of what you mean by 'nature'? I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly.

[Ewan]

Posted by TinFoilSuit (here)

These are the memories for which I am absolutely certain (99% sure):
- Interview With "A" (not "The") Vampire -AGREED
- Dolly from Moonraker definitely had braces
- It's a beautiful day in THE (not "this") neighborhood -AGREED
- Life IS (not "was") like a box of chocolates -AGREED
- Madonna's given birth name definitely did not contain 'Madonna' in it. -AGREED
- Berenstein, not Berenstain Bears

These are the memories for which I am pretty darn certain, but will allow for the slight possibility that I am mistaken (I'll say 85% sure):
- Depend(s), not Depend (but I guess I never actually bought a box )
- We are the champions ... OF THE WORLD -AGREED
- LUKE (not "no"), I am your father
- If you build it, THEY (not "he") will come
- Nobody does it like (not "doesn't like") Sara Lee
- Prince ~ "Dearly Beloved... gathered here today to celebrate (not "get through") this thing called life..." -AGREED - 99.9% on this one actually.
- Reba McIntyre (not McEntire)
- Sally Field(s) ~ "You like me, you really like me!" (not "Right now, you like me")
- Suzanne Sommers (not "Somers")
- Payless Shoes (not Payless "ShoeSource")
- White-Out (not "Wite-Out")

The others I did not know of in the first place.

One of my strengths is my memory recall. It is not flawless by any means and I have managed to see I was wrong myself on several occasions, but they were largely insignificant events I had no reason to remember. There was no importance attached to them. There are other events in life that hold much more significant meaning for whatever reason. The Prince song, Dearly Beloved, was often playing in the car when I took my girlfriend out. She absolutely loved him and as a consequence I grew to like him also and listened to him often. When you are romantically engaged with someone and are sharing an event with music playing - it is not something you easily forget.

My friend (teacher if you like) and I were in a bar in Chiang Mai, Thailand when we were discussing false memories and he was explaining how the internal dialogue of a lot people will, over time, rewrite an event to fit their preconceptions. We were both observers, some part of us does not get easily caught up in events and we are always watching, noting things. Things others are apparently almost oblivious to. A serendipitous event followed as someone got into a debate over what had happened several nights ago. Somebody was accused of doing something that they had not done. Eventually the real 'culprit' said 'Actually that was me'. The girl just looked at him and said, 'No it wasn't'. The 'event' was out of character for the perpetrator in this instance, whereas anyone would have believed the accused could have done it. It was an interesting social observation at the time that exactly confirmed what we had just been discussing.

After my own 'Road to Damascus' incident that hidden observer became even more obvious to me, even to the extent of intruding when I was lost in some mental cinema of someone elses misbehaviour - I would get a flash view of myself doing exactly the same thing. It was a sobering and disturbing companion to have initially but I'm real glad about it now, keeps me on track.

So if I say I am sure of a memory it is one that has been subjected to a degree of scrutiny.

I think, he said hesitantly, that it may be possible our conciousnesses can shift dimensions. That collectively, even, a group of people reaching a certain 'vibration/awareness'? can move into (the same) bodies in parallel worlds. Where that leaves the previous conciousness inhabitating that body I don't know. Maybe it is like a software upgrade. And what of the old body you just left, what of its conciousness. I don't know, I'm musing aloud again so to speak. I would think this kind of thing would mostly happen when you were asleep, but perhaps it also explains deja vu, where everything seems to be the same yet something is different.

This would require a perhaps infinite series of 'worlds', like 4D classrooms, where we graduate to the next level largely unaware. That there would be differences between these worlds would make sense due to the overall vibration of the level. Yet such superficial changes we are noticing hardly make any sense. What matters the title of a film, song or book in the grand scheme of things.

Head explodes.

[Sunny-side-up]

I think I have experienced, seen this effect but; my memory is so bad and tangled I can not be sure

I feel more sure that someone/thing is messing with my memory 0.o, maybe the same thing!

[Unicorn]

Nobody remembers brand names like Addidas, Reebook, Cannon or Phillips (now spelled Adidas, Reebok, Canon, Philips)..?

[Rich]

^^ definitely not

Posted by Ewan (here)
My friend (teacher if you like) and I were in a bar in Chiang Mai, Thailand when we were discussing false memories and he was explaining how the internal dialogue of a lot people will, over time, rewrite an event to fit their preconceptions.

I think this is the case I’ve had wrong memories too but whats more important is that we define our whole persona through the past, the past by definition meaning something that is not anymore supposing to exist as a bundle of consciousness in the now.
If the past is not anymore how can it be now?

And so we live in a completely false reality based on a memory always defining ourselves from what isn’t instead of what is.

[Mark (Star Mariner)]

Posted by Unicorn (here)
Nobody remembers brand names like Addidas, Reebook, Cannon or Phillips (now spelled Adidas, Reebok, Canon, Philips)..?

Yes! Thank you Unicorn. I don't remember 'reebook' or the others, but I definitely remember Addidas (two Ds). I posted that here in the original mandela effect thread.

[TinFoilSuit]

Posted by Ewan (here)
Yet such superficial changes we are noticing hardly make any sense. What matters the title of a film, song or book in the grand scheme of things.

I agree that these minor changes seem insignificant within the proverbial grand scheme. However, this forum is likely filled with folks who are used to distrusting the 'PTB', as it were. So from that perspective, I guess all of us 'i-sleuths' will never cease examining the most seemingly insignificant details, much like a competent police investigator would examine the slightest disturbances of dust in a major crime scene. (I'm suddenly envisioning the nosy neighbors from the movie 'The Burbs')

Now when we apply the rudimentary 'who/what/where/when/why' process of determination, the only answer that many of us can agree upon revolves around the 'what' - i.e. that minor details about 80s/90s pop culture are somehow being altered. As is most often the case, the remaining questions are especially difficult to answer, particularly the 'who' and the 'why'.

Another impossibly difficult question to answer is trying to determining all the potential impacts later on down the line. As a silly example, what if one of these so called ME events serves to trigger an irrational response from an already emotionally unstable character? And after a long series of unfortunate events, my kid's pet hamster winds up getting eradicated in a tragic gardening accent.

TFS

[Bill Ryan]

Posted by Ewan (here)
Yet such superficial changes we are noticing hardly make any sense. What matters the title of a film, song or book in the grand scheme of things.

But maybe those are the things that are easiest to notice.

There could be far, far more, all over the place, unconnected with easy-to-spot things in iconic popular culture, seen by only one or two people who dismiss their experience because of lack of corroboration, or just (sometimes understandably!) doubting their own senses.

I'm now convinced that something very highly strange has happened.

• No-one's editing old VHS tapes or removing every one of them from video stores (and people's homes!) worldwide. That's impossible.

• No-one's back-engineering old advertisements and logos and text in printed books that are on hard-copy record everywhere. That's impossible, too.

• My own personal experience was that something changed that had been totally sealed and unalterable. It's a Schrödinger's cat thing. The cat changed, inside the box, when no-one was there to look. This is exactly what's been happening.

• My suspicion is that this is a small-scale beta test for timeline manipulation using highly classified advanced technology that I do believe exists. It'd be reasonable (and smart!) for any timeline manipulation experiments to start very small —
  
  (a) to track who notices and what effect it has (discussion like this on the net is of zero concern to the black ops guys), and
  (b) to make sure that the very tiny experimental butterfly effects don't spiral way out of control and blow up the planet or something. (This is not just a joke!)

• If my theory is right, then the next stage of the program would be to introduce larger and larger changes. That'd be the test.

[Bill Ryan]

I think this is so important to understand, I'm bumping this key part of my own post above.

There are no physical changes happening. It's all on a different level. I'm sure of it.

—>

It's a Schrödinger's cat thing. The cat changed, inside the box, when no-one was there to look.

[araucaria]

Posted by DNA (here)
I drove down to the store and the car started right up for me. While there she noted while I was starting the car I had to put it in neutral first. She asked why I was doing this. I was perplexed to no end when explaining to her that our car has had this minor defect now for about a year and this is the first time she has ever had a problem with it. I also informed her that it was she who had discovered the defect.
This bothered her and continues to bother her to no end.

This bothers me for a different reason. I have never driven a car that could be started unless in neutral.

Edit note from Bill (just so as not to derail the thread) — If it's an automatic, it starts in 'Park'.

[seehas]

as i told already the ME is happening to me, and iam not someone that easy accepts something like this because of bad remembering - in my past i studied the JFK Zapruder Movie because iam a natural courious person that want to find out about things for himself rather than beeing told a version of it, the movie i studied had 4 people in the car, the car was a different one, the camera angle was quite different and there never was a theory about jacky beeing involved into the asassination as i know, now this car got 6 people and even a split-window ..what the....

so please feel my position, its not like there is another movie online that questions the movie u know, the movie u knew your entire life does not exist anymore - u just cant find it anymore and if u had it on a VHS or on your harddrive this movie would look different now.

its hard to deal with that and its quite different than having a bad memory, i know its hard to accept something like this if you dont have it happening to yourself



there are many things that look weird to me but im not 100% sure and without the zapruder and the bond movie i could not vote with "yes" in this poll:

- Las Vegas , i can remember this place had big problems having enough water, in my memorys Las Vegas was in a desert now there is a "Lake Las Vegas" i just cant belive it, but since i dont live there i could be wrong - even the hoover dam is in a new position as i can remember it beeing more far away from vegas and not so close, on maps i can see alot of things that seem to be out of place but im just not 100% sure.

- The Mona Lisa, i can remember that her face was not happy at all she was dead serious now im looking into a smiling womans face - at least i like this version more

- Volkswagen Logo, i noticed this last year in one of our company cars but i thought "wow a new logo they changed it after so long time" i didnt even heard about the ME, but then i found out it was never changed by the company...

- the movie lines in forest gump and starwars, they sound weird to me special the starwars one but im not sure with it, i could be wrong.


at the end, there is nothing bad to this effect questioning reality is a healty thing and since not everyone has the same experience it also has to do with accepting other peoples belives and realitys - people start to observe!

but im not with bill here, i dont think this is "human-made" at least not due technology, it fits pretty good in dolores cannon view about the new earth, but who knows

[betoobig]

Well, thanks to Mandela efect we may be able to see the movies Annunaki and Grey State, that´ll be awesome. That will give us a clue that we are in positive timeline deffinetly.
Much love

[East Sun]

When films are being made could it be possible to"treat" part of it so that a selected part of it would fade and that
even words would fade to reveal other words underneath. Just a thought...

[seehas]

Posted by East Sun (here)
When films are being made could it be possible to"treat" part of it so that a selected part of it would fade and that
even words would fade to reveal other words underneath. Just a thought...

well in the zapruder the entire movie is new to me, if you explain it with the timeline theory it would be possible that the directors of the hollywood movies made little differences here and there but the movie at all was still the same - if you set someone up for murder the entire outcome can change or in the zapruder movie the complete movie is new.

id love to see the timeline where kennedy never died

[RunningDeer]

Posted by araucaria (here)

Posted by DNA (here)
I drove down to the store and the car started right up for me. While there she noted while I was starting the car I had to put it in neutral first. She asked why I was doing this. I was perplexed to no end when explaining to her that our car has had this minor defect now for about a year and this is the first time she has ever had a problem with it. I also informed her that it was she who had discovered the defect.
This bothered her and continues to bother her to no end.

This bothers me for a different reason. I have never driven a car that could be started unless in neutral.

Edit note from Bill (just so as not to derail the thread) — If it's an automatic, it starts in 'Park'.

All of my 3 or 5 speed vehicles, Volvo, VWs, and four Toyotas had to be in first gear in order to start. For one temperamental VW, I had to pop the clutch either on an incline or someone pushed to jump start it. Even then the shift had to be in first gear with clutch down. My latest Toyota is an automatic. As Bill mentioned, it needs to be in park to turn over.

[Bob]

Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

Posted by Ewan (here)
Yet such superficial changes we are noticing hardly make any sense. What matters the title of a film, song or book in the grand scheme of things.

But maybe those are the things that are easiest to notice.

There could be far, far more, all over the place, unconnected with easy-to-spot things in iconic popular culture, seen by only one or two people who dismiss their experience because of lack of corroboration, or just (sometimes understandably!) doubting their own senses.

I'm now convinced that something very highly strange has happened.

• No-one's editing old VHS tapes or removing every one of them from video stores (and people's homes!) worldwide. That's impossible.

• No-one's back-engineering old advertisements and logos and text in printed books that are on hard-copy record everywhere. That's impossible, too.

• My own personal experience was that something changed that had been totally sealed and unalterable. It's a Schrödinger's cat thing. The cat changed, inside the box, when no-one was there to look. This is exactly what's been happening.

• My suspicion is that this is a small-scale beta test for timeline manipulation using highly classified advanced technology that I do believe exists. It'd be reasonable (and smart!) for any timeline manipulation experiments to start very small —
  
  (a) to track who notices and what effect it has (discussion like this on the net is of zero concern to the black ops guys), and
  (b) to make sure that the very tiny experimental butterfly effects don't spiral way out of control and blow up the planet or something. (This is not just a joke!)

• If my theory is right, then the next stage of the program would be to introduce larger and larger changes. That'd be the test.

Thanks for spelling that out so succinctly Bill.

I noticed the first solid effect in 1986 in Egypt, Gizeh Plateau, December 24th at about 11am. Structures which were not there the day before, were there thereafter.

I noticed various alterations on and off regularly, mostly with buildings appearing, then no longer being there strongly during the time period from 1986-1993.

Buildings appearing and disappearing..

(I travel to town now and then to get supplies.. and I pay attention to my surroundings..)

Probably every 2 weeks (2016/17 so it is CURRENT).. And I go past the same places. I watch and note..

I've seen a particular plot of land which had a tobacco shoppe on it change within two weeks from not being there (vacant lot), to being back this time it's an electronics parts shoppe.. The side of the building is painted (like building art) of Marilyn Monroe, Bogart (with a cigarette in his mouth or in his hand, it changes), and Sinatra.. Sinatra appears and disappears switching over to Sammie now and then.. Dean Martin hardly every appears... And the buildings nearby appear to come and go.. All without evidence of construction equipment..

A hint as to how come... Las Vegas. What happened in the late 1940's-1960's north of Las Vegas, NV? Howard Hughes for instance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Las_Vegas , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_Site, and of course Area-51

On 4 August, 1991, Mikhail Gorbachev went on holiday to his dacha in Foros, Crimea. There was supposed to be a war, and execution of Gorbachev - something intervened - and a major "track slide" happened (I believe) - http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...chev-collapses

Two nights ago, my wife woke me up to ask if we had a power outage. (we didn't).. I have a clock that shows the time on the ceiling. It's digital. It only blinks when there has been a power outage. The ":" colon divider between hour and minutes was blinking.. It had never done that before, and is continuing to do that. She noticed the change as did I. Small. The colon on that clock never blinks..

In 1993'ish, digressing... I was in my sound studio doing some live editing, using a CD as a master source. I had a live mike on, for live instrument track addition. As I was adjusting the equalizers to compensate for room noise, I managed to turn and bump a stool which had a metal tool on it.. It fell off and crashed to the floor, disrupting the new re-mastering, (and myself) which I was doing to digital tape.. I reset the CD source, and played it through to get back into the "feel of things". On the CD original (which was clean) was now the CRASH sound in the precise spot at the precise time that I dropped the tool. - - Impossible to alter a CD being played with no "write laser" being turned on, but permanently altered..

I call these track slides, quantum skips, where consciousness paused due to some trauma happening "somewhere" in the allness, a skip strong enough to pull the matrix into another set of potential realities..

Post references touching on potential methods to induce - https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1126757
and https://projectavalon.net/forum4/show...=1#post1126217

In the early 90's my feeling is that I got glimpses, or a possibility of what could be inducing such.. In the "augmenter" (1971 novel) induced traumatic dreaming amplified with a booster, a "brain" of large creative scope explored "outcomes".. Looking at that concept, what appeared to be was a brain the size of a whale's hooked up to deep brain probe electrodes, and the whale's brain then doing the "dreaming" (locked in by the "trauma").. I won't get into the locations where it seemed to coming from, but there was a military component. Why whale? Extreme ability to work with holographic imagery, process such and intelligently attribute significance (in short a lot of neurons and strong sensory agility).

The "Monsters from the Id" - Forbidden Planet 1956 - a scientist explores a brain booster machine, and finds out in the end that the 'machine' has been manufacturing his personal desires when he sleeps, his unconscious mind had connected "resonantly" to the machine through some "other space" (we can call that information space, devoid of distance space and time)... and the machine then builds what he desires either awake or asleep.. Quite possibly such is happening now again, that something has been activated, and people are connecting, and dreaming..

Aboriginal Dreamtime - http://www.crystalinks.com/dreamtime.html -

The Dreaming establishes the structures of society, rules for social behavior, and the ceremonies performed to ensure continuity of life and land. The Dreaming governs the laws of community, cultural lore and how people are required to behave in their communities. The condition that is The Dreaming is met when people live according to law, and live the lore: perpetuating initiations and Dreaming transmissions or lineages, singing the songs, dancing the dances, telling the stories, painting the songlines and Dreamings.

The Creation was believed to be the work of culture heroes who travelled across a formless land, creating sacred sites and significant places of interest in their travels. In this way songlines were established, some of which could travel right across Australia, through as many as six to ten different language groupings. The songs and dances of a particular songline were kept alive and frequently performed at large gatherings, organised in good seasons.

In the Aboriginal world view, every event leaves a record in the land. Everything in the natural world is a result of the actions of the archetypal beings, whose actions created the world.

I suppose we could look at the "dreamtime" and the amount of changes which may be happening in key locations around the world, maybe archivic "recordings" are being altered by physical changes..

So, from small to large, I have noticed for quite some time, the alterations.. Back in the 1980's I didn't have memory issues and paid quite a lot of attention to detail and that which was subtle.. Renaissance science method, observe details, and note similarities, and any changes..

To me it is STILL going on, not diminishing but coming in waves.. I can't tell if the quantity/quality of change (yet) is larger or smaller than from the 1986-1993 time period.

[PurpleLama]

I still wonder, do any of the changes being experienced actually date past 2001? I asked on the Sinbad thread of any of the memories came after, but changes occurring after '01 and not just our recollection of them is what I really meant. It might be significant, if there is a point of time after which things cease to shift, so to speak.

[the_real_dave-id]

I'll say upfront that I have no idea what the Mandela Effect represents, but that I do believe it's happening. It may be timeline merges, or alterations, but my mind wants to believe that a timeline change would either cause something to not exist, or change it in a way, that while I don't remember it, it would still make sense. I struggle with the idea that a timeline change would alter something to the point that it makes no sense.

The "Moonraker" film for instance. It makes a lot of sense and is even cute, if both of the characters have metal on their teeth, but it makes no cinematic sense if Dolly does not have braces. Especially at the very end of the film.

Yet no one has reported that the way the scene is presented changes, only the mouth of Dolly. It's still shot as though it's love at first sight but there's nothing in sight to make that love happen. There's a close up of Jaws slowly smiling revealing his metal, then a close up of Dolly slowing smiling as well but her teeth are sparkly and kinda perfect.

To me no director would shoot it this way if they didn't both have metal in their teeth, whatever timeline they were from, which supports that originally they both had the metal IMO.

Alternatively you've got examples like "Forest Gump," which works either way since his line uses "always" in the sentence. "My mama always said, 'Life was like a box of chocolates'" can carry virtually the same meaning as "My mama always said, "Life is like a box of chocolates" depending on how it's said. This could support the timeline theories in as much as if each version existed in different timelines they would still both make sense.

As for things like "Fruit Loops" vs. "Froot Loops." I worked in advertising for 12 years (actually did some work for Kellogg's!) and I can tell you that company lawyers will refer to products names as hard copyright or a soft copyright. "Oat Rings" would be a soft copyright but "Cheerios" is a hard one.

You need a name you can "own" when you put out a product to the public, and when you use words from the language without changing something, a generic product can use the same name and it's difficult to win a lawsuit against them. Often times companies change a name after they've used it for a while specifically in order to secure a "harder" version of a copyright. So for me, most of the product name changes don't ring the Mandela Effect bell as hard as some of the other examples out there.

Anyway, something is definitely going on. As Bill said, changes made to things like VHS tapes in personal collections simply can't have been altered in the now, at least not with any technology the culture at large is aware of anyway.

So IMO the Mandela Effect is something that is definitely taking place, NOT a simple mis-remembering of things. I have many examples for myself of things I've mis-remembered… they don't ring true like some of the Mandela Effect examples.

For the record, I remember The Berenstein Bears, the Sinbad "Shazaam" movie, the four-person-in-the-car Zapruder film, Reba McIntyre and many others. These are real memories.

I mis-remembered where I put my keys last week, and which concert hall I saw a certain group at in the 70's and many other things, but as soon as I was presented with the actual facts about these things they came back to me. That's not what happens with Mandela Effects.

Anyway, if it's someone or something or some group messing with the past I think the Mandela Effects may be the result of what they did, rather than the things they specifically messed with.

Sorry for the long post, but this thing really keeps my mind going. I have no doubt it's getting confused by those that would try to use it as a psy-op, or just enjoy mucking with people's heads, so it becomes difficult to grasp the the real meaning of it.