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Thread: Intelligent Design

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    United States Avalon Member starlight's Avatar
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    Default Intelligent Design

    Hi all,

    I recently came across a fairly interesting article with the main argument being that BECAUSE there is intelligent design all around us, there MUST be an intelligent creator:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-...b_1303613.html

    Quote from article:
    "Late in his life the previously ardent atheist Anthony Flew famously noted, “What I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce life, that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together.”

    I was discussing this exact topic the other night with one of my dear friends whom, like many others, steered away from religion once he started digging deeper into science. We talked for an hour about this subject, and at the end he was 100% convinced that there IS a creator and there could be no other explanation.

    Personally, this makes complete sense to me. When looking at the biological make up of everything around us, it seems silly to say that it all appeared by "chance."

    Many say science disproves a God... but could it perhaps be a way of explaining the intelligent design of creation by a divine being?

    I welcome any and all contributions to this thread.

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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Thanks. Intelligent design is absolutely evident, even to the closed-minded and the atheist - if only they'd think about it for a moment!

    It occurs to me quite simply that everywhere we look around us, from the microscopic to macro- we see "order". I don't know if this is a provable scientific principle per se, but order, in my view, cannot 'by accident' emerge from chaos. Order, therefore, is put in order intentionally, by design, by that which created it. An intelligence, obviously.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Everyone is different, I follow something like what some ETs call the Creation... The Force in the Star Wars movies explains it in our terms here on Earth... Some other worlds call it the Power... It's an individual walk , people are free to term it to what best suits their understanding... I believe as long as we exercise self responsibility, we can't go wrong...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    This thought just popped into my head as I read your post and I can't ignore the feeling it brought to me...

    What if the creator is us - all of us - and we created a means for us to try out our creation in a physical form. As we experience life here, we see the mistakes that we make as human beings so it seems that there is a need to continue to experience life in this way and strive to correct our mistakes.

    Of course we couldn't come here with our complete powers of creativity or it would be too quick and easy to change things - and if we all had the power to give ourselves anything we wanted in an instant, imagine the chaos around here with everything changing constantly. So, we made some rules for ourselves to follow.

    When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.

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    Administrator Mark (Star Mariner)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    ^ You have the answer. Everything you said is to my understanding, and in a nutshell, completely correct.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
    ~ Jimi Hendrix

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

    "THE SOURCE has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the Frequency Spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the Universe & maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the Source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create & destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by Three-Dimensional Space.

    Perhaps if we were in a pure energy state, each particle of energy would itself serve as a synapse, & information could be stored by a slight alteration in frequency....no complex circuitry would be required, & no physical body would be necessary either. The energy patterns would not need material form, it instead would permeate the entire Universe. ...impulse of low energy passing through your brain. If it were so desired, it would control those pulses & thus control your thoughts."

    I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    WOW!

    Thank you for your answers thus far. This topic is so interesting because there are no right or wrong answers. We are all blindly throwing darts here.

    Quote When people mention an intelligent creator they immediately think of one entity. It could very well be all of us.
    You might be on to something, Patient. We are creators in our own physical world as we know it- we think, we act, we create. Our ability to act on free will is what makes us creators of our own physical reality. This reminds me of the 'butterfly effect.' This perspective really gets your mind thinking.

    ------------------

    Quote "THE SOURCE has to be a form of intelligent energy operating at the highest possible point of the Frequency Spectrum. If such an energy exists at all, it might permeate the Universe & maintain equal control of each component part. Because of its very high frequency, so high that the energy particles are virtually standing still, the Source has no need to replenish itself in any way that would be acceptable to our environmental sciences. It could actually create & destroy matter by manipulating the lower energies. It would be timeless, because it exists beyond all time fields. It would be infinite because it is not confined by Three-Dimensional Space.
    What an interesting quote Foxie Loxie. I can't even imagine a source that fits such criteria. Its amazing to me that although we are an extremely intelligent species, there is MUCH more we have yet to learn and acknowledge. Maybe we will evolve to learn more as time moves forward?

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

    " ... "

    I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!
    If I have this right, the bulk of it may be here:
    The author is cited as 'O.H. Krill', but it was actually co-written by John Lear and John Grace ('Valdemar Valerian'). It was Grace (as Valerian) who complied the 'Matrix' series of books:
    That's not to say that any of this is incorrect... Lear and Grace knew a lot of stuff.

    Re Intelligent Design, I'm pretty convinced that this was indeed the driving force behind the extraordinary biosphere we have on Planet Earth. But it's far more like someone's giant science project (maybe ourselves included). For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Intelligent design is close, but no cigar. THAT (God, Buddha Nature take your pick) is awareness infused with loving kindness, or compassion, or love, or whatever. And that is not intelligence but wisdom. THAT occupies all space. We as humans walk through it, not displace it. If our eyes were attuned to the molecular level only instead of the gross physical level we can experience with our senses, we would see mainly space. All that space between atoms, molecules, etc. That space IS awareness infused with love.
    We all have seen many people who have gobs of intelligence but no wisdom. Afraid to open up their hearts and let wisdom flow.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Just to be a smartarse:
    There is a saying:
    With the first sip of the glas of Science one becomes an Atheist. But when you have drunken the whole glas at the bottom of the Glas you will find god

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    Quote Posted by Foxie Loxie (here)
    Here I am going to quote from a scientist who chose to withdraw from The System & went into hiding. I quote from The Blue Planet Project.

    " ... "

    I am no longer in possession of this book, but I do remember I had quite a time trying to buy it after I heard it mentioned on the History Channel!
    If I have this right, the bulk of it may be here:
    The author is cited as 'O.H. Krill', but it was actually co-written by John Lear and John Grace ('Valdemar Valerian'). It was Grace (as Valerian) who complied the 'Matrix' series of books:
    That's not to say that any of this is incorrect... Lear and Grace knew a lot of stuff.

    Re Intelligent Design, I'm pretty convinced that this was indeed the driving force behind the extraordinary biosphere we have on Planet Earth. But it's far more like someone's giant science project (maybe ourselves included). For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.
    It makes a lot of sense to me that we are some advanced ETs' giant science experiment. This would explain the seeming indifference to what's happening down here in terms of human suffering. If we are simply "ants" or some (perceived as) lower life form, perhaps it is impossible to feel compassion or sympathy for the wars, genocides, murders, rapes, every day suffering etc. that occur here -- and perhaps maybe some of these events are even artificially introduced/induced to test our responses to these traumatic events? And if this is the case, perhaps those higher ET scientists are also someone else's science experiment, and so on and so on....Intelligent design doesn't necessarily mean ethical design....at least from the subjects' perspective.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)

    For the 'Intelligent Creator', we may have to look no further than a race (or maybe a number of races) of extremely advanced ET scientists.
    But were the extremely advanced ET scientists designed or did they happen by chance?


    BTW: If you've read Journey of Souls or any of those books by Michael Newton there are several mentions of souls playing/studying with energy and designing things/life forms. Kind of suggests we created ourselves, or collectively at least we created everything and ergo, collectively, we are the ONE.
    Last edited by Ewan; 22nd February 2017 at 19:49.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    No Way, some of you are saying we all brought this into being. I for one distance myself totally from having anything to do with creating Mosquitos and Ticks.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    All very good and thoughtful points of view. How many angels do dance on the head of a needle? I long ago concluded, rightly or wrongly (and we'll never know), that on this topic above all others, we are all dancing and prancing around in the realm of the unknown and the unknowable. And I am OK with that.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Well, Starlight, you certainly started an interesting discussion! And Bill, I really appreciate the info you shared. I just LOVE this all being "someone else's big science project"! I think that puts it all in perspective!

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Intelligent design is a phrase containing two words connected together to modify each other. The first word, intelligent, denotes intent. Only a sentient self-reflecting consciousness can have intent. The design part infers action. Only an intelligence capable of affecting change can design, or "have designs". Intelligent design = intelligent creator depends on what "design" one is talking about.

    Does the apparent intelligent design of the creatures on planet earth automatically prove the existence of an intelligent creator, yes.

    Does that intelligent creator necessarily have to be the Great Spirit god of all the universes? - no

    If there are little creator gods with local jurisdiction does that prove the existence of a Supreme Creator god? yes! imo

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    To me, this is evidence of intelligent design.
    Name:  euler-identity.png
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    Leonhard Euler discovered it. Who created it?
    The only place a perfect right angle ever CAN be, is the mind.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    Quote Posted by gord (here)
    To me, this is evidence of intelligent design.



    Leonhard Euler discovered it. Who created it?
    Thank you!

    A very brilliant man, and one of the greatest ever mathematicians.



    Some quotes and trivia:

    Stanford University mathematics professor Keith Devlin said, "like a Shakespearean sonnet that captures the very essence of love, or a painting that brings out the beauty of the human form that is far more than just skin deep, Euler's equation reaches down into the very depths of existence".

    Paul Nahin, a professor emeritus at the University of New Hampshire, describes Euler's identity as being "of exquisite beauty".

    Benjamin Peirce, a noted American 19th-century philosopher, mathematician, and professor at Harvard University, after proving Euler's identity during a lecture, stated that the identity "is absolutely paradoxical; we cannot understand it, and we don't know what it means, but we have proved it, and therefore we know it must be the truth".

    A poll of readers conducted by The Mathematical Intelligencer in 1990 named Euler's identity as the "most beautiful theorem in mathematics".

    In another poll of readers that was conducted by Physics World in 2004, Euler's identity tied with Maxwell's equations as the "greatest equation ever".

    A study of the brains of sixteen mathematicians found that the "emotional brain" (specifically, the medial orbitofrontal cortex, which lights up for beautiful music, poetry, pictures, etc.) lit up more consistently for Euler's identity than for any other formula.

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    Default Re: Intelligent Design

    from time to time I bring this one back... - justoneopinion

    “I (as us all) am (are)
    simply the ‘All that Is’
    that found a way to trick Itself
    that It wasn't Itself
    and simultaneously
    hid Itself within Itself
    such that It might (re)discover Itself
    alive and individuated
    within Its self-created Magick Kingdom.”

    justonequestion -

    How intelligent I was (we were) in doing this is...

    debatable.
    All the above is all and only my opinion - all subject to change and not meant to be true for anyone else regardless of how I phrase it.

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    Examine all things and retain the good.

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