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Thread: Organ donation

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    Avalon Member kirolak's Avatar
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    Default Organ donation

    I wonder how others feel about this topic. . . I was approached by someone recently, & duly signed on for my organs to be harvested after my death. Intellectually, it seems to be the "right" thing to do - why waste good protein which could be put to use in aiding others?

    Since then, I've had several mails inviting me to participate in various athletic activities (clearly to keep the organs in the best functioning condition possible ), as well as a series of lengthy questionnaires with "questionable" prizes to be won by completing them. I completed a few questionnaires but have opted out now, what a waste of time!

    Anyway, for some reason not entirely clear to me, I've suddenly developed the feeling that donating organs is not something I am entirely comfortable with, after all.

    I do not understand why; I will certainly no longer be needing little meat devices, & perhaps the next user will inherit some of my interests & take to a vegan lifestyle & the classical guitar Apparently it is very common for this sort of influence to be carried over from donor to recipient.

    Being a donor will require that I die in a hospital, while I had always envisioned dying at home, with mantras playing in the background :facepalm & my already-departed animal & human friends waiting for me on the other side with a welcome party

    Am I being selfish & sentimental about my death? Probably. It could be painful & messy, & better undertaken in a clinical setting. . . I'd be interested to hear what others feel about this issue!

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    Avalon Member norman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    I know at least 2 personal golden rules.

    1) Never allow anyone other than yourself to take out an insurance policy on your life.

    2) Never give hospitals and emergency services a reason to value your body more dead than alive.
    ..................................................my first language is TYPO..............................................

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    There are three reasons that I do not wish my organs to have a second life.

    One is my study of esoterics.
    It is said that after physical death, you enter your second phase of this life cycle, which is to take place in the emotional world.
    Watch the movie: "What dreams may come" to get an idea of what that life might look like.
    In the esoteric teachings, it is said that your consciousness stays partially connected to your physical body for a while, until the time that the physical body has dissolved. I think there are several ways how to interpret this, but my estimation is that the life in the emotional world will be hindered if some organs of you live on in someone els's body.

    Two is that you physical body must be not completely dead, but only "brain dead" and there are many signs that this "brain dead" is in many cases not very dead at all.
    Studies have shown that the body reacts to the extraction of organs in the same way as it would as if the operation was done on a life and awake person. Stress, shock, signs of pain even.
    "Brain dead" might be an euphemistic terminology in this case.

    Three is that there is a lot of money to be made with organ transplants and I don't think that I have to make elaborate arguments on a forum like this one to what sort of wrongdoings this all too often leads.
    There are many witness accounts of family members who have declared that they felt that the person who was to be cut open for organ donation was not beyond hope of recovery. In some cases, an intervention by family has lead to a recovery of the patient that was only minutes away of being cut open for organ harvesting.


    Taking these points into consideration, I don't think that organ transplants from life donors are the right way to go.
    Perhaps we will be able to grow them some day. That would have my blessings.
    Last edited by Eram; 4th April 2017 at 10:20.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Well that has given me food for thought. As the recipient of a kidney that has given me a new lease of life it is difficult to be completely detached. Selfishly I am pleased I got the kidney, but I've since wondered quite frequently about the ethics of it in a larger scale than ego concerns.

    I can't give you advice Kirolak, but a part of me certainly feels that it may not be the right thing to do despite the apparent altruistic nature of it from a certain perspective. Eram raises some good points.

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    Netherlands Avalon Member Eram's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Quote Posted by Ewan (here)
    Well that has given me food for thought. As the recipient of a kidney that has given me a new lease of life it is difficult to be completely detached. Selfishly I am pleased I got the kidney....
    Perhaps this ascends all objections that I made in my first post.
    It's pretty cool to be able to live on for a while longer with the help of a donated organ from another person.

    My first point is of course pretty speculative and if true, it will be hard to tell how much the 2th phase of life will be hindered.
    If only mildly (on occasion) then I would have no problem with it myself.

    I would like to take the "for profit" part out of the equation though.
    But that will be a dream for the far future if at all.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Hey Kirolak,

    I am an organ donor and I am very proud to be. Once I departed, the thought that some part of the physical form that I have happily been given to experience this lifetime are going to save a life or give a second on to somebody who is not done yet is actaullay comforting, it gives purpose into going through the death process.
    I am also aminimalist and this helps not hanging onto anything material like the ego likes to and identify my "being" with the physical body. I don't consider I would " disappear" if my body was spread between other humans, I consider it a good way to keep on giving into the cycle of life.
    As wehere I will be when I die, I don't care. If I happen to be in a facility equipped for the donations, good ! If not then so be it. This is not about creting yourself obligations in my sense, this is about how your death will be meaningful in a material way... maybe ;-)

    Thanks for starting the conversation :-)
    Love and Light

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    Avalon Member kirolak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    [QUOTE

    Two is that your physical body must be not completely dead, but only "brain dead" and there are many signs that this "brain dead" is in many cases not very dead at all.
    Studies have shown that the body reacts to the extraction of organs in the same way as it would as if the operation was done on a life and awake person. Stress, shock, signs of pain even.

    "Brain dead" might be an euphemistic terminology in this case. "


    My own feelings or suspicions, entirely. . . do you perhaps have a link to these studies, please? Not that I don't believe you, it feels true.

    Intuitively, I feel that I would never accept a donated organ . . . yet who am I to deny acess to anyone who may need one? I am in a quandary

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    When we are allowed to die in dignity -then they can ask my nearest and dearest if need be for some spare parts. However being the type of person that buys a second hand car then rides it into the ground, I intend to do much the same with my body.

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    [QUOTE

    Two is that your physical body must be not completely dead, but only "brain dead" and there are many signs that this "brain dead" is in many cases not very dead at all.
    Studies have shown that the body reacts to the extraction of organs in the same way as it would as if the operation was done on a life and awake person. Stress, shock, signs of pain even.

    "Brain dead" might be an euphemistic terminology in this case. "


    My own feelings or suspicions, entirely. . . do you perhaps have a link to these studies, please? Not that I don't believe you, it feels true.

    Intuitively, I feel that I would never accept a donated organ . . . yet who am I to deny acess to anyone who may need one? I am in a quandary
    If I remember correctly, a few studies are mentioned in this interview on The Richie Allen Show a couple of months ago.
    Last edited by Swan; 4th April 2017 at 13:44.

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Dear Kirolak, I remember reading I can't for the life of me remember where possibly from Robert Shapiro's books about how the body and the soul are still linked even after death (esoteric Buddhism is quite specific on the details of which "ruling" or responsible Buddhist divinity is in charge of the bardo experience of each soul)
    The suggestion by the channelled material (much could be questioned about this medium but the concepts and their ramifications are quite fascinating) is that the body shouldn't be cremated but like many indigenous tribes left in an allocated above ground area to naturally decompose (sea burial is another modern option)
    I find that these two practices (of the indigenous and esoteric buddhism) have a fascinating correlation.
    It needs a deeper study to be sure.

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    do you perhaps have a link to these studies, please? Not that I don't believe you, it feels true.
    I've got my information on organ donation and the problems involved from Gert Lodewick.
    A Dutch investigator who's done a large amount on research concerning organ donation and specifically on the subject of the question of "is the donor really dead when they cut him open?".

    I'm sure that his book has many links to actual studies that have been done, but I don't have it.
    I only watched this youtube, but it is in Dutch, so it will not be of great value to you.

    Crux of the matter is that organs cannot be harvested from a completely dead body.
    Oxigen must still flow through the veins, so a beating heart is necessary.
    Metabolism must also still be in function, otherwise the organs become unfit for donation immediately.
    It is therefore impossible to speak of a dead person who is donating the organs.
    It is scientific impossible to state that a brain dead, but still breathing (by eternal help) body is really dead.
    Even the words "brain dead" are scientifically indemonstrable.

    I think it takes only a little common sens to derive from these facts that there must be a gray area where lines are crossed and donors experience some of what happens to their physical body at the moment of extraction.

    I know Gert mentions one particular case in the US where the victim of a traffic accident was declared brain dead and the extraction team was already on their way. Before the extraction took place, the victim regained consciousness and was able to express that he was aware of everything that was going on. He heard that they were going to get his organs and he was mad as hell, because he felt that he was not dead. Just unable to do anything about it.

    Perhaps this evening, when I have some more time, I will watch the youtube again and write down all the key points that Gert Lodewick makes.

    I'll post the youtube here anyway, for people who understand Dutch.



    ps: I think that some google searches will come up with studies concerning brain dead and organ donation.
    Last edited by Eram; 4th April 2017 at 13:25.
    hylozoic tenet: “Consciousness sleeps in the stone, dreams in the plant, awakens in the animal, and becomes self-conscious in man.”

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    England Avalon Member Did You See Them's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Inner self is telling you your on a menu !

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Thank you, Raff. . . sorry this post seems to have been duplicated somehow

    [Mod-edit: The duplicate thread is now merged with this one Hervé ]
    Last edited by Hervé; 4th April 2017 at 14:18.

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    Avalon Member kirolak's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    That is the sort of response, Ewan, that makes me think I should go ahead & donate after all. . . Would you mind sharing a little more? Did you find your personal taste s & interests influenced in any way after the transplant?

    I don't mean to be morbid or intrusive, I just need the truth, if you are willing to share it. BTW, You are the sort of person I would be happy to leave a kidney or two!
    Last edited by kirolak; 4th April 2017 at 14:17.

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    Scotland Avalon Member Ewan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Quote Posted by kirolak (here)
    That is the sort of response, Ewan, that makes me think I should go ahead & donate after all. . . Would you mind sharing a little more? Did you find your personal taste s & interests influenced in any way after the transplant?

    I don't mean to be morbid or intrusive, I just need the truth, if you are willing to share it. BTW, You are the sort of person I would be happy to leave a kidney or two!
    No, I can't say I did. I may have got a glimpse of the ladies tastes as I had more than one strong image of a cottage in pale pastel blues and yellows, cat pictures all over the wall but other than that there is nothing to report. I told one of the nurses that but they didn't think anything of it, she said all the stories she had heard previously were linked to heart transplants. I would happily tell you more but there is really nothing to say pertaining to that aspect.

    Returning to conciousness I remeber feeling really quite angry for the first couple of days followed by a few days feeling pretty depressed. But I do not believe that was connected to the donor, rather the violation of my body. I've been told it is a quite common occurence for people after major surgery. Interesting in itself but I don't believe it is related.

    I don't think you're either morbid or intrusive, curiosity is completely natural imo. I really appreciate the last sentence, thank you.

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Hi Kirolak, it's a very good question. In ancient times, really ancient times, there was a very different human reality that no longer exists today (at least in the west). There was never any need to transplant human organs to another, sick person, because a diseased or dysfunctional organ could be repaired or regenerated with techniques resembling what might be termed as psychic healing, enhanced particularly with crystals. In modern times we've lost this ability, or where it exists it is ignored (maybe supressed). Western Medicine only takes into account the physical components of health, having zero knowledge or even acknowledgement of the etheric, the spiritual, the causal, the emotional, or even the karmic. All these elements together, where imbalance is observed, can translate to a physical symptom. Western medicine attempts only to treat that physical symptom, a bit like trying to patch up an observed crack in the wall of a dam with frantic applications of mortar, without any knowledge of the water pressure behind that is creating, and continuing to create, cracks. Ancient healers addressed the cause, never the symptom. I think our methods today would seem crude and backward to them, perhaps even a perversion of natural law.

    That said, I cannot deny the huge benefits of organ transplants. My own brother has had a kidney transplant that has prolonged his life considerably. The spiritual aspect of giving an organ to a person in need, as previously stated, is a tremendously good deed and a beautiful one. So I would not speak out against it. But in the main, it is not actually the most viable way to heal someone, given that true healing of the body, in the most natural and effective way, has sadly been lost. There can also be a kind of psychic link of the deceased person and the recipient of their tissue, because it is a blending of one's personal energies with another. At least to the deceased person that might not always be a desirable side effect.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: Organ donation

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3267048/

    This article addresses the question of Organ Donor Euthanasia. . .

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    as in the video Swan posted: organs are harvested from people who are still alive and breathing-

    Larry

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    Oh dear, the subtitles are also in Dutch!

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    Default Re: Organ donation

    I am not an organ donor. Considering they must harvest my organs before I am truly dead....

    Well, lets just say - no way.

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