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Thread: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

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    Belgium Moderator Johan (Keyholder)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    An observation I have made, and I am not sure it has been talked about here. It's an experience I have had, spread over 25 years.

    It's also a word of caution.

    What do PN's (pathological narcissists) do? Search for NS, narcissistic supply.
    Where is the largest supply to be found? Where victims of PN look for help...

    It's easier to locate foodsources for PN's. They have many of those together, just in one place.

    Supportgroups for instance. Workshops. Sources of information about PN, centers for child abuse,
    domestic violence, you name it.

    How they operate? They "claim" the territory! (Don't they always).Which can be done in many ways.
    It's very treacherous... because the victims "trust" the place where they come for help.

    PN's are very good in impersonating. Pretending to be what they are not.

    Sometimes they will "convince" an author to publish a book (for them), and misuse that way "their position".

    Or create a self-help group for abuse-victims.
    The possibilities are just endless.

    At least someone like Sam Vaknin informs people he IS a PN and doesn't "hide" that. Plus his info is in my opinion quite "spot on".

    Not every source is like that - misleading - of course. But many are. It takes careful discernment to know "which is which".

    And while the info ("the message") may be valid, the source of it ("the messenger") is NOT. It's just their (PN) way to "entrap" potential victims.
    Last edited by Johan (Keyholder); 26th January 2022 at 14:55.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Middle Mid Range Narcissist : Angel With A Dirty Face
    The angel with the dirty face is a middle mid-range narcissist for the most part who is utterly convinced of their inherent goodness and moreover they have an unquenchable desire for the world to know that they are a good person. That is a differentiating factor towards an empath. Empaths don't need to shout about it. This facade of virtue and integrity is fundamental. It is how they truly believe they are because this is what the world must know about them.

    The angel with the dirty face has a towering conviction that they are good and you had better believe it because if you do not well then that makes you a bad person. Why? Because you’re threatening their control.

    You are oblivious to the touch which taints and the soiled footprints which beat a path back and forth to you. These individuals manifest as the patient friend who listens to your tale of woe, the kindly physician with the twinkling eyes who resides at bedside manner, the soothing carer who chats the elderly and infirm, the diligent charity worker and the host of the site which professes to guide you the victim out of the maze of
    narcissistic abuse.

    The angel with the dirty face is very much the preserve the middle mid-range narcissist. He or she truly believes that they are a good person. They want you to know it too and you must accept it. Well because in their world, it's true. They believe that they care about other people. They think that they do good work, but they must be acknowledged for it and this must occur repeatedly. They want the recognition. They want you to tell them how good they are that they are helping people. That they see you understand that they are honest and decent. Of course all of these responses are the fuel that they instinctively crave, although they are unable to recognize that. They see nothing wrong with being identified, highlighted, and rewarded for their sterling work. After all, doesn’t that just tell more people about the good that they are doing?

    So how do you find the filth beneath the purity? How do you ascertain whether that person truly does feel that emotional empathy is good of heart and mind and is not just part of a facade or a veneer? There are two detergents which remove the masking facade and expose the dirt that this lurks underneath.

    The first concerns recognition as I mentioned earlier, the angel with the dirty face must have recognition. Recognition equates to fuel equates to control. Watch what happens if you fail to acknowledge that person's contribution or if you record it to somebody else an empathic individual may be hurt that their efforts have gone unrecognized, but they're largely keep it to themselves not wishing to be seen as churlish or attention seeking. They may leave it to another to correct the error but they certainly won't make a song and dance about being overlooked…

    The second method of exposure is that of challenge. An empathic person recognizes that people have views and opinions that it matters that they should be able to articulate them and that they are not invalidated. I have learned much about this in my interactions with other people and I am intrigued by their capacity to allow this. They will allow other people to state their case. They will advance their own but recognize that the two can exist side by side. It is genuine tolerance. It isn't done for show or for kudos but born out of the empathic trait of decency of allowing the voices of others and also of being an excellent listener. Not so the angel with a dirty face. If you challenge their mythology, methodology of how they dispense their apparent care, if you disagree with their views, if you suggest there is a better way, you will then see the angelic coating recede and the dirt beneath come very much before.

    When challenged in this way the angel with a dirty face feels their superiority attacked and therefore since they are a mid-range narcissist in disguise, this attack on their perceived superiority challenges their sense of control. Ignites their fury and the attack must be repelled accordingly watch out for the following:
    1. Being smeared in bad mouth to third parties for your audacious criticism of the angel with the dirty face after all they have done and just because you are jealous of what I do and all I'm trying to do is help people and this is how I’m treated.
    2. Directing lieutenants and members of the coterie to attack transgressor. This is especially evident in an online environment where people will jump in on the accused intent and long blows on behalf of the mid-range narcissist after all he or she prefers others to be doing the dirty work.
    3. Invalidating the view of the transgressor and doing so without reference to any substantive point but saying they're wrong because they are wrong almost like a child responding.
    4. Going on the attack directly against the perceived transgressor.
    5. Acting hurt and crestfallen.
    6. Rolling out pity plays.
    7. Accusing the transgressor through projection most notably labeling them as a narcissist.
    8. Isolating the perceived transgressor through familial or social ostracization, removal from social media, removal from committees or employment.
    Middle Mid Range Narcissist : Angel With A Dirty Face (14 min)
    The Mid Middle Range Narcissist (includes Types A and B) presents as kind and empathic, much of the time, however they are actually an angel with a dirty face. How can you determine which individual is the narcissist and distinguish them from an empath or normal person? As always, HG Tudor provides you with the answers.

    Consult: https://narcsite.com/private-audio-co...
    Narc Detector: https://narcsite.com/narc-detector-2/
    Empath Detector: https://narcsite.com/empath-detector/
    Knowledge Vault: https://gumroad.com/tudorhg
    More information: https://narcsite.com
    Email: narcissist1909@gmail.com
    House of Tudor: https://narcsite.com/the-house-of-tudor/

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Excellent post Runningdeer!

    It looks like you were describing in more detail what I pointed at in my post just above!
    We were typing our posts at the very same moment.

    While typing my post, I was exactly thinking of the 8 points you mentioned.

    I agree, it IS an excellent way to "see" the mud on that "angel's" face!

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Does that mean that Mr. Tudor is another "Sam Vaknin"?

    From his website: "Mr. Tudor writes from his own perspective as a narcissist psychopath "

    Maybe PN's talking about PN is the best re-source one can have?

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Quote Posted by Johan (Keyholder) (here)
    Does that mean that Mr. Tudor is another "Sam Vaknin"?
    I'd say, "Yes."
    Quote Posted by Johan (Keyholder) (here)
    Excellent post Runningdeer!
    Thanks, Johan.
    Quote Posted by Pam (here)
    Holy Moly, this is powerful, powerful stuff. I have just read post and will watch the video later, thank you so much Paula. I had to come to a rather painful decision to simply stop interaction with my sister because of my recognized vulnerability to listening to my "older sister" dynamics and her intense narcissistic manipulations over the years and realizing how incredibly destructive it was to have interactions and manipulations by her. She was my big narcissist denial. Just didn't want to see it until I just could not take any more.

    I just ordered this book, Pam.

    “Exorcism: Purging the Narcissist From Heart and Soul”


    Summary:
    269 ratings - 4.5
    The narcissist may be physically gone but his or her influence remains and it hurts. Whether you have escaped the narcissist or you have been cruelly discarded, the period thereafter is difficult, worrying and painful.
    • Why can't you move on?
    • Why do you keep thinking about them?
    • How can we exert such a hold over you for months afterwards?
    • Why can't you get him or her out of your mind?
    • Why do you see them everywhere you look?
    • Why does it feel like he or she is still buried deep in your heart?
    • What can you do to get rid of this feeling?
    This is the answer. Through the narcissist's perspective you will understand why you have been infected, why it is so effective and how you can successfully exorcise the narcissist from your heart and soul.
    Other books & kindle editions by H.G. Tudor
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 26th January 2022 at 17:44.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    For those interested, here is a good website, not so well known.

    https://voicelessness.com/

    This is a psychologist that has been a PN-victim himself.

    Personally it is my conviction that any psychotherapist/psychologist saying that they "specialize" in a particular domain, should have been exposed to "whatever" is present in that domain. And when you see that some list a dozen (or more) fields of specialty, that alone should be enough to shun them. Studying a "specialty" is never enough!

    Grossman is one of the few psychologists I would trust on this.

    His message board is excellent too (but not possible to become a member, for years now.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Quote Posted by Johan (Keyholder) (here)
    For those interested, here is a good website, not so well known.

    https://voicelessness.com/

    This is a psychologist that has been a PN-victim himself.

    Personally it is my conviction that any psychotherapist/psychologist saying that they "specialize" in a particular domain, should have been exposed to "whatever" is present in that domain. And when you see that some list a dozen (or more) fields of specialty, that alone should be enough to shun them. Studying a "specialty" is never enough!

    Grossman is one of the few psychologists I would trust on this.

    His message board is excellent too (but not possible to become a member, for years now.

    Thanks for the resource, Johan. I'm not familiar with Dr. Richard Grossman. This is his YouTube channel. It goes back 14 years, but he’s no longer active on it. The most recent one was 3 years ago.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Yes, but his website (and forum) still is.

    He is as far as I know a very quiet person.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Angel with the Dirty Face
    I found the info in RunningDeer's post #242 to be most helpful.
    I recently ran into one of these cases (in my continuing education in narcissism which the universe has been so generously supplying me with ).
    I sent it on to a fellow empath, who also knows that particular narcissist.
    (And I did a bit of editing of the original description for clarity, as follows):

    "Middle Mid Range Narcissist : Angel With A Dirty Face

    The angel with the dirty face is a middle mid-range narcissist, for the most part, who is utterly convinced of their inherent goodness.
    Moreover, they have an unquenchable desire for the world to know that they are a good person.
    (That is a differentiating factor from an empath. Empaths don't need to shout about it.)
    This facade of virtue and integrity is fundamental. It is how they truly believe they are, and this is what they want the world to know about them.

    The angel with the dirty face has a towering conviction that they are good and you had better believe it because if you do not, well then, that makes you a bad person.
    Why? Because you’re threatening their control.

    You may be oblivious to the touch which taints and the soiled footprints which beat a path back and forth to you.
    These individuals manifest as the patient friend who listens to your tale of woe, the kindly physician with the twinkling eyes who resides at bedside manner, the soothing caregiver who chats the elderly and infirm, the diligent charity worker and the host of the site which professes to guide you, the victim, out of the maze of narcissistic abuse.

    The angel with the dirty face is very much the preserve of the middle mid-range narcissist.
    He or she truly believes that they are a good person. They want you to know it too and you must accept it.
    Because in their world, it's true.
    They believe that they care about other people.
    They think that they do good work, but they must be acknowledged for it and this must occur repeatedly.
    They want the recognition. They want you to tell them how good they are that they are helping people.
    They want to see you understand that they are honest and decent.
    Of course, all of these responses are the fuel that they instinctively crave, although they are unable to recognize that.
    They see nothing wrong with being identified, highlighted, and rewarded for their sterling work.
    After all, doesn’t that just tell more people about the good that they are doing?

    So how do you find the filth beneath the purity?
    How do you ascertain whether that person truly does feel that emotional empathy is goodness of heart and mind, and is not just part of a facade or a veneer?
    There are two detergents which remove the masking facade and expose the dirt that lurks underneath.

    The first concerns recognition. The angel with the dirty face must have recognition.
    Recognition equates to fuel, equates to control.
    Watch what happens if you fail to acknowledge that person's contribution.
    An empathic individual may be hurt that their efforts have gone unrecognized, but they will largely keep it to themselves, not wishing to be seen as churlish or attention seeking.
    They may leave it to another to correct the error, but they certainly won't make a song and dance about being overlooked…

    The second method of exposure is that of challenge.
    An empathic person recognizes that people have views and opinions, that it matters that they should be able to articulate them and that they are not invalidated.
    They will allow other people to state their case.
    They will advance their own but recognize that the two can exist side by side.
    It is genuine tolerance. It isn't done for show or for kudos, but born out of the empathic trait of decency of allowing the voices of others and also of being an excellent listener.
    Not so the angel with a dirty face.
    If you challenge their mythology, methodology of how they dispense their apparent care, if you disagree with their views, if you suggest there is a better way, you will then see the angelic coating recede and the dirt beneath come very much to the fore.

    When challenged in this way the angel with a dirty face feels their superiority attacked and therefore, since they are a mid-range narcissist in disguise, this attack on their perceived superiority challenges their sense of control.
    It ignites their fury and the attack must be repelled accordingly.
    Watch out for the following:
    Being smeared to third parties for your audacious criticism of the angel with the dirty face after all they have done, and just because you are jealous of what they do.
    "And all they are trying to do is help people and this is how they're treated", etc.
    Directing lieutenants and members of the coterie to attack the transgressor.
    This is especially evident in an online environment, where people will jump on the accused on behalf of the mid-range narcissist.
    After all, he or she prefers others to be doing the dirty work.
    Invalidating the view of the transgressor and doing so without reference to any substantive point, almost like a child.
    Going on the attack directly against the perceived transgressor.
    Acting hurt and crestfallen.
    Rolling out plays for pity.
    Accusing the transgressor through projection, most notably labeling them as a narcissist.
    Isolating the perceived transgressor through familial or social ostracization, removal from social media, removal from committees or employment."
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    The Doormat Empath (12 min)
    What is the doormat empath? What are the characteristics that appertain to this individual? How does this empath interact with the narcissist? Which school and cadre are most likely to be the Doormat Empath.

    snippets:
    I identified certain characteristics that my sister, Rachael, as an empath has which I've also seen in those who have been my primary source victims. I've concluded that whilst numerous of these victims have come close to being doormats, only three have actually achieved that status alongside that of my sister.

    Now it is a mistake to think that a doormat would be regarded as weak. Naturally my kind think this but that's part of our narcissistic mechanism for the maintenance of control over you by pouring scorn on your traits and how they lead you to be treated.

    Those who are dormant actually exhibit a different kind of strength. They are weak in that they fail to assert themselves with sufficient emphasis to enable them to escape the worst of our treatment. But they possess a strength by virtue of those characteristics to be able to have those characteristics and keep them whilst being abused, ignored, trampled on taken for granted is perversely a form of strength and one which we welcome.

    We require appliances that will keep functioning, obeying us, pumping out the fuel and complying without breaking down and malfunctioning the first time that matters become rough. Finding a doormat amongst our victims is gratifying because it means that this person will not immediately depart. They’ve no desire to do so. It goes further however because they wish to stay not only for our reasons but for their own fulfillment as well. And therefore the doormat is a choice victim for our kind because they actively choose to stay notwithstanding what is being done to them.

    What are the main traits that constitute a doormat?
    • The individual is naturally an empath and therefore constitutes empathic traits which exceed their own narcissistic traits.

    • The individual is sensitive and prone to bouts of considerable guilt.

    • This person has learned to survive hostile environments by meeting our need for gratification. First and foremost applies to the submission to control and the provision of fuel but it goes further the doormat will gratify us by allowing us to do what we want, recognizes our need and right to do so, allows us to utilize whatever resources we see fit, and caters for all our needs in terms of fuel trade provision and residual benefits.


    • Doormats perception of love has become skewed. This person seeks love through the excessive accommodation of another’s needs. This may not just be us when we have attached them as a primary source to us but in respect of other individuals. Those individuals may not be narcissistic but the doormat still wishes to accommodate the wishes of other people. Something of course which will then irritate us and lead to conflict because the doormat regards his or her role as one of accommodating everybody because then that means that they will feel loved, appreciated, liked.

    • The doormat simply gives too much. They do not take. They give of themselves on every level from their emotions, their dedication, their time, their energy, their thoughts and their resources. They are impressively resourced in these matters and appear to have almost limitless time energy etc. Although eventually it does become evident that they have not and there are only finite amounts.

    • The doormat does not feel safe unless he or she gives. If they perceive that they are taking, this causes them alarm even distress. If they are neither giving or taking they feel restless and out of their comfort zone. They need to provide and to give and it allows them to fulfill their role and in turn embodies a sense of safety for them. Once they begin to feel safe they will continue to give in order to remain in this safe place. This is why the doormat is particularly drawn to our kind. Because we are the takers and we take on a vast scale. We cater in our own way for the doormat and even though the doormat may not know what we are their coupling with us driven by their own addiction provides them with innate sense of safety and security although of course this is misled by their emotional thinking.

    • The doormat must meet the emotional needs of the narcissist. We are empty. We are voids. And your emotional attention, your fuel needs to be poured into us. The doormat feels a need to ensure that those excessive emotional needs are met although fails to realize that this can never be achieved. And therefore remains hooked, driven by their addiction and their emotional thinking and beholden to us, in as the doormat tries to achieve the impossible.

    • The doormat suffers low self-esteem but this is boosted by the success of the narcissist. My victims who were doormats found that their self-esteem was increased by my achievements and my accomplishments. Not because they commandeered them for themselves but because they felt that they had been able to contribute to that as a consequence of allowing me to shine, to search, by catering to all of the background needs if you will that allowed me to get on with the important stuff.


      However the doormat doesn't acquire the traits of our success at all. What they do is they revel given their empathic nature in our success. Which they feel they’ve been able to help us do because they have catered for the minutiae, the mundane matters. Catering to those things that would otherwise preoccupy our time leaving us to get on with the the shiny special glorious amazing things instead. They are the permanent backroom staff that allows us to shine on the stage.

    • The doormat has a high tolerance to emotional abuse. The lashing out to heated fury and cold fury from our kind against the doormat causes the doormat to realize that the emotional need of our kind has increased i.e the need for fuel and control. This signals to them that they must leap into action. They have a call of duty and rather than find the emotional abuse debilitating at least at first, they regard it as a useful signal for them to do something in order to cater to the needs of the narcissist to give control, to provide fuel. Although of course they don't realize this is specifically what they are doing. They regard it as being taking steps to assist to be supportive, to listen, and in turn they give the control that we crave and pour the fuel in our direction.


      Unfortunately, for the doormat all they are actually doing is allowing a pressure to build up of this repeated emotional abuse. The doormat can tolerate it for longer than a standard empathic victim but then there comes a point where the threshold is reached. The pressure can no longer be sustained and withheld and at that point there is a substantial and serious and damaging effect on the doormat from the least of this pressure they break down.

    • The doormat feels guilt when catering for their own needs, therefore almost in a masochistic way will place themselves in the firing line. Once again with our kind in order to ease this guilt.

    • The doormat actually feels undeserving of being loved. They want to be loved for what they do rather than what they are. They regard themselves as fundamentally unworthy of love save when they are carrying out their role.
    In terms of the empathic constitution of an individual who is a doormat, they will have a majority and a significant, a very significant majority outcome with regard to codependency as a consequence of their empath detector test. They will also show at the minimum strong martyr more likely moving into majority…

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    My religious mother always taught to give was better than to receive. Henceforth at my 50th party I gave personalised goody bags to each of my ‘friends’.
    Giving reiki healing was a pleasure to alleviate anyone’s suffering, no charge. Yet I was/am a strong person. Don't suffer fools. I am noone’s doormat - or am I? Still doing good works, donating etc etc. who cares, life is short and I just want fairness for all. Have I got the wrong end of the stick? Love is not expected to be a reward, just respect I think, which I need.
    The love you withhold is the pain that you carry
    and er..
    "Chariots of the Globs" (apols to Fat Freddy's Cat)

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    United States Avalon Member onawah's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Sadly, a "human doing", in other words, rather than a human being.
    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)

    The doormat actually feels undeserving of being loved. They want to be loved for what they do rather than what they are. They regard themselves as fundamentally unworthy of love save when they are carrying out their role.
    Each breath a gift...
    _____________

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    Avalon Member Pam's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Quote Posted by RunningDeer (here)
    The Doormat Empath (12 min)
    What is the doormat empath? What are the characteristics that appertain to this individual? How does this empath interact with the narcissist? Which school and cadre are most likely to be the Doormat Empath.

    snippets:
    I identified certain characteristics that my sister, Rachael, as an empath has which I've also seen in those who have been my primary source victims. I've concluded that whilst numerous of these victims have come close to being doormats, only three have actually achieved that status alongside that of my sister.

    Now it is a mistake to think that a doormat would be regarded as weak. Naturally my kind think this but that's part of our narcissistic mechanism for the maintenance of control over you by pouring scorn on your traits and how they lead you to be treated.

    Those who are dormant actually exhibit a different kind of strength. They are weak in that they fail to assert themselves with sufficient emphasis to enable them to escape the worst of our treatment. But they possess a strength by virtue of those characteristics to be able to have those characteristics and keep them whilst being abused, ignored, trampled on taken for granted is perversely a form of strength and one which we welcome.

    We require appliances that will keep functioning, obeying us, pumping out the fuel and complying without breaking down and malfunctioning the first time that matters become rough. Finding a doormat amongst our victims is gratifying because it means that this person will not immediately depart. They’ve no desire to do so. It goes further however because they wish to stay not only for our reasons but for their own fulfillment as well. And therefore the doormat is a choice victim for our kind because they actively choose to stay notwithstanding what is being done to them.

    What are the main traits that constitute a doormat?
    • The individual is naturally an empath and therefore constitutes empathic traits which exceed their own narcissistic traits.

    • The individual is sensitive and prone to bouts of considerable guilt.

    • This person has learned to survive hostile environments by meeting our need for gratification. First and foremost applies to the submission to control and the provision of fuel but it goes further the doormat will gratify us by allowing us to do what we want, recognizes our need and right to do so, allows us to utilize whatever resources we see fit, and caters for all our needs in terms of fuel trade provision and residual benefits.


    • Doormats perception of love has become skewed. This person seeks love through the excessive accommodation of another’s needs. This may not just be us when we have attached them as a primary source to us but in respect of other individuals. Those individuals may not be narcissistic but the doormat still wishes to accommodate the wishes of other people. Something of course which will then irritate us and lead to conflict because the doormat regards his or her role as one of accommodating everybody because then that means that they will feel loved, appreciated, liked.

    • The doormat simply gives too much. They do not take. They give of themselves on every level from their emotions, their dedication, their time, their energy, their thoughts and their resources. They are impressively resourced in these matters and appear to have almost limitless time energy etc. Although eventually it does become evident that they have not and there are only finite amounts.

    • The doormat does not feel safe unless he or she gives. If they perceive that they are taking, this causes them alarm even distress. If they are neither giving or taking they feel restless and out of their comfort zone. They need to provide and to give and it allows them to fulfill their role and in turn embodies a sense of safety for them. Once they begin to feel safe they will continue to give in order to remain in this safe place. This is why the doormat is particularly drawn to our kind. Because we are the takers and we take on a vast scale. We cater in our own way for the doormat and even though the doormat may not know what we are their coupling with us driven by their own addiction provides them with innate sense of safety and security although of course this is misled by their emotional thinking.

    • The doormat must meet the emotional needs of the narcissist. We are empty. We are voids. And your emotional attention, your fuel needs to be poured into us. The doormat feels a need to ensure that those excessive emotional needs are met although fails to realize that this can never be achieved. And therefore remains hooked, driven by their addiction and their emotional thinking and beholden to us, in as the doormat tries to achieve the impossible.

    • The doormat suffers low self-esteem but this is boosted by the success of the narcissist. My victims who were doormats found that their self-esteem was increased by my achievements and my accomplishments. Not because they commandeered them for themselves but because they felt that they had been able to contribute to that as a consequence of allowing me to shine, to search, by catering to all of the background needs if you will that allowed me to get on with the important stuff.


      However the doormat doesn't acquire the traits of our success at all. What they do is they revel given their empathic nature in our success. Which they feel they’ve been able to help us do because they have catered for the minutiae, the mundane matters. Catering to those things that would otherwise preoccupy our time leaving us to get on with the the shiny special glorious amazing things instead. They are the permanent backroom staff that allows us to shine on the stage.

    • The doormat has a high tolerance to emotional abuse. The lashing out to heated fury and cold fury from our kind against the doormat causes the doormat to realize that the emotional need of our kind has increased i.e the need for fuel and control. This signals to them that they must leap into action. They have a call of duty and rather than find the emotional abuse debilitating at least at first, they regard it as a useful signal for them to do something in order to cater to the needs of the narcissist to give control, to provide fuel. Although of course they don't realize this is specifically what they are doing. They regard it as being taking steps to assist to be supportive, to listen, and in turn they give the control that we crave and pour the fuel in our direction.


      Unfortunately, for the doormat all they are actually doing is allowing a pressure to build up of this repeated emotional abuse. The doormat can tolerate it for longer than a standard empathic victim but then there comes a point where the threshold is reached. The pressure can no longer be sustained and withheld and at that point there is a substantial and serious and damaging effect on the doormat from the least of this pressure they break down.

    • The doormat feels guilt when catering for their own needs, therefore almost in a masochistic way will place themselves in the firing line. Once again with our kind in order to ease this guilt.

    • The doormat actually feels undeserving of being loved. They want to be loved for what they do rather than what they are. They regard themselves as fundamentally unworthy of love save when they are carrying out their role.
    In terms of the empathic constitution of an individual who is a doormat, they will have a majority and a significant, a very significant majority outcome with regard to codependency as a consequence of their empath detector test. They will also show at the minimum strong martyr more likely moving into majority…
    Wow!!! I really appreciate the perspective from the narcissist. I have lived much of my life as a classic "doormat" empath. I'm chuckling right now as I used to laughingly think "do I have the word "doormat" written on my forehead? It is amazing the number of people who will grab an opportunity to elevate themselves just a tad when they sense the opportunity with a doormat. In fact, only yesterday, I got a series of texts from someone that I have traditionally played the doormat for. They wanted to play a mini version of the doormat game.. It's been a long time coming, but even though intellectually, it has become my go-to response over years, I'm just not playing any more.

    Very, very insightful.

    The other very important point it brings out here, is that the narcissist does not act alone here. The empath in this scenario carries an equal load.

    Also, possible..it is not necessary to spend one's life acting this out over and over, of course it must be seen and acknowledged first. I am not talking about the empath part, but the doormat or imbalanced part can be changed with dedication and work.
    Last edited by Pam; 31st January 2022 at 11:08.

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Do not mirror us. Your mirror will shatter first.

    Never Mirror The Narcissist - Here´s Why (12 min)
    When you are doing this [mirroring] you are actually continuing to provide us with fuel. So we are winning. You are challenging our assertion of control and therefore we must respond to that to assert control over you. And that risks you being pushed into a form of manipulation.

    Mirroring is not in your best interest. It is a continued interaction with the narcissist which brings the devil’s pitchfork against you. You will provide us with fuel. We win. You lose. You will suffer an adverse consequence. We win. You lose. You will increase your emotional thinking. We win. You lose.

    It's a zero-sum game and if you try and mirror us. Remember you can't manipulate a manipulator. We are designed to reject that even if you think that you will obtain some kind of victory by wounding us or challenging us. It will only result in a bad outcome for you.

    Why? Because we're different from you. We don't have conscience, guilt, remorse. We have no emotional empathy. You are not designed to behave this way. So not only ought you not to behave this way but it is positively unhelpful for your position.

    If you do so resist the temptation to mirror, do not listen to those that suggested ought to be done. Instead of mirroring the manipulations that we dole out against you, you are far better served by focusing on:
    1. the establishment and maintenance of no contact
    2. being able to recognize the various manipulations that we deploy
    3. your increased knowledge will reduce the impact of the manipulations upon you.

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Here's a very interesting and intelligent 18 minute analysis of Alec Baldwin's narcissism (and the trouble it repeatedly gets him into), with many well-presented examples. Baldwin is just a case study, of course, as this is endemic in Hollywood and pop culture in general.



    The Psychology Today article referenced is this one, which itself is worth reading in full. The article is from 2011... Baldwin has been a narcissist for a long time.
    Alec Baldwin: It's the Narcissism, Again
    Is celebrity narcissism adaptive?

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    Avalon Member justntime2learn's Avatar
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    Talking Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Hi all

    I want to help and educate someone about borderline personality disorder in the nicest way possible. The person I want to help does not have the disorder and I won't tell her who does because she'll figure it out real quick. Can anyone offer articles, links, videos or life experiences?

    Thank you so much
    Last edited by justntime2learn; 14th February 2022 at 16:30.
    “To develop a complete mind: Study the art of science; study the science of art. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else” – Leonardo Da Vinci

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    Wales Avalon Member meat suit's Avatar
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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Quote Posted by justntime2learn (here)
    Hi all

    I want to help and educate someone about borderline personality disorder in the nicest way possible. The person I want to help does not have the disorder and I won't tell her who does because she'll figure it out real quick. Can anyone offer articles, links, videos or life experiences?

    Thank you so much
    I have learned everything I know about 'borderline' from Sam Vaknin and Richard Grannon.
    have a look at their youtube channels. they often have conversations.
    interestingly both are now suggesting that 'borderline' as a definition should be scrapped.

    Sam Vaknin
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLa...cCYAeuTqc12avA

    Richard Grannon
    https://www.youtube.com/c/RICHARDGRANNON

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Instead of bringing up the "BPD" (Borderline Personality Disorder) you could discuss Personality Disorders in General, especially the four Cluster B personality disorders: Narcissistic, Borderline, Histrionic and Anti-Social. There is a lot of overlaps between them. For instance it the bad behaviors are directed at groups of people instead of individual people, they might be "Histrionic", or if their behaviors seem Borderline, but you are able to leave that person alone for weeks or months at a time, they might be Narcissistic.

    Also, instead of coming out with the BPD label, you can talk about the various aspects of the disorder: the fear of abandonment, impulsive behaviors, black and white thinking, emotional instability, etc.



    Therapists usually end up treating the victims of Class B personality people, but of the four types, they do have the best success treating people with BPD, although it is a lot of work and takes years.

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Thank you meat suit and Kryztian!

    I mentioned BPD as that is what she was diagnosed with.
    I also know there is much more to be learned with differences in personality disorders. One size certainly does not fit all.

    I asked for help because I haven't found anything yet I could send that would help someone who will be beginning to learn.

    Both of your posts were very helpful.

    Again, thank you.
    “To develop a complete mind: Study the art of science; study the science of art. Learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else” – Leonardo Da Vinci

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    Default Re: 20 Basic Tactics Used By Narcissists, Sociopaths And Psychopaths To manipulate And Silence A Prey

    Nix what I had. I provided the wrong disorder.
    Last edited by RunningDeer; 14th February 2022 at 19:57.

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