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Thread: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

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    United States Avalon Member ghostrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    The fascinating thing about time travel , once a time period is, it is always alive somewhere ... Imagine going back 1,000 years, that means somewhere , on some level, that day still exists, and a week from now it will still exist , therefore what is, always is ... The eternal now ...checking out the video now...
    Raiding the Matrix One Mind at a Time ...

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Quote Posted by ghostrider (here)
    The fascinating thing about time travel , once a time period is, it is always alive somewhere ... Imagine going back 1,000 years, that means somewhere , on some level, that day still exists, and a week from now it will still exist , therefore what is, always is ... The eternal now ...checking out the video now...
    Sci-Fi author Philip K. Dick believed the Roman Empire never fell, that something caused time (or that particular timeline) to stop at 70 AD.

    Thumbs up on the movie! I cheated by watching the primer to PRIMER first. And all those timelines ... reminded me of the different realities that played out in Vanilla Sky.

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    I just watched the movie and will watch it again tomorrow.

    Good idea cheating Lady M

    Perhaps we cold build a gravity distortion and time displacement machine? There seems to be a patent for one...Anyone think it works or it's purpose having a patent?

    US Patent 20060073976 A1

    "ABSTRACT

    A method for employing sinusoidal oscillations of electrical bombardment on the surface of one Kerr type singularity in close proximity to a second Kerr type singularity in such a method to take advantage of the Lense-Thirring effect, to simulate the effect of two point masses on nearly radial orbits in a 2+1 dimensional anti-de Sitter space resulting in creation of circular timelike geodesics conforming to the van Stockum under the Van Den Broeck modification of the Alcubierre geometry (Van Den Broeck 1999) permitting topology change from one spacelike boundary to the other in accordance with Geroch's theorem (Geroch 1967) which results in a method for the formation of G{umlaut over ( )}odel-type geodesically complete spacetime envelopes complete with closed timelike curves.

    Link: https://www.google.com/patents/US20060073976
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Wonderful film. Great direction and immensely engaging.:-)

    Took the advice and had watched the Illustrative Primer primer tomorrow, which took me back to deciding, I will enjoy it the first time when I have time. Probably do that when I awake this morning:-)

    Very simple visual story line yet the viewers perspective conflated by various time lines. We need challenging stories like this throughout our cinematic experiences.

    Thanks for the "heads up" on this movie.

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Predestination (2014) is an amazing time travel movie. I just watched it and I have to say I liked it much more than Primer. Though Primer was good and probably more realistic as far as time travel could be anyway.

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    I watched the primer first to get an idea and could not find the movie to stream. I eventually found the film here: https://archive.org/ for free as I basically have no budget at the present. But based on Bill's recommendation, I had to see the film. https://archive.org/details/Primer20...lMovieEverMade

    For what it is worth; Shane makes time travel way over complicated than I think actual time travel would be. Climbing back into the box to ride out the six hour trip to Monday 9am seems like the overkill aspect. What I do not understand is on a Thursday, it only takes 6 hours to travel back to Monday 9am. This is problematic. Every time they go to Monday 9am, they are only in the box 6 hours no matter how late in the week it is. When they reset to Monday 5am, it is a solitary 1o hour trip in the box. This is not a per second/ per second travelling equation.

    Using O2 for 6 or 10 hours inside the box while surrounded by electronics components does not seem safe. Shane mentions [as Aaron] that climbing into the box is like a coffin. The O2 is needed due to the machine being drenched in an inert gas [argon] for reasons that remain unclear.

    The small first machine ran on 2 12v batteries. It would stand to reason the larger machines; 2 of them, would require more power. Most of the storage rooms I've been in have no outlets.

    Most hotels checkout by 11am and check in at 2-3pm to afford the cleaning and upkeep of the rooms, you would be hard pressed in america to check in at 9am. Since they are making extra money day trading; they can afford any associated expenses with the hotel room.

    Aaron 0 survives, albeit ignorant, and is stashed away. But the rest of the doubles from the alternate timelines supposedly disappear into the past.

    For One Week of time travel, this is absolutely HELL. Not to mention the side effects, ruined penmanship, passing out, and the bleeding ear.

    One Week. I so hope time travel is nothing like this method as described and explained. Leave it to a mathematician and engineer to describe it this way. [You know what they do to engineers after they turn forty?]

    From wiki: After shooting, Carruth took two years to fully post-produce Primer. He has since said that this experience was so arduous that he almost abandoned the film on several occasions.

    A note about the discussion on NASA and the 'pen' vs. the pencil. This is a myth. The inventor of the 'Space Pen' produced a pressurized cartridge ball point pen. Pencils are not ideal in zero gravity [mechanical or otherwise] due to breakage / sharpening etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen
    Last edited by JackMcThorn; 26th July 2021 at 02:37. Reason: link / from wiki
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Space-Time, the 4th dimension within which we all extend outwards on the curvature of reality - since we have the ability to manipulate the other dimensions, it makes a kind of sense that will shall eventually grasp how to leverage Space-Time, if we can 'return to tomorrow' imagine the absolute chaos we could potentially create. Perhaps this time chaos is currently affecting our timelines and we are not aware of it. I can see the need to keep time travel covert, infinite possibilities being executed on, it is definitely a confronting concept! Thank you so very much Jack McThorn for your internet sleuth work - I absolutely love Archive.org they are a mensch!
    I might pop back and put my two pence worth in, I will be interested with anyone else's impressions also!
    Like so many of my generation, H.G Wells was the first exposure to time travel-of course this was the inspiration for Dr Who which used to be such a brilliant SciFi drama.
    Last edited by Mike Gorman; 13th January 2022 at 06:11.

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    I watched the primer first to get an idea and could not find the movie to stream. I eventually found the film here: https://archive.org/ for free as I basically have no budget at the present. But based on Bill's recommendation, I had to see the film. https://archive.org/details/Primer20...lMovieEverMade

    For what it is worth; Shane makes time travel way over complicated than I think actual time travel would be. Climbing back into the box to ride out the six hour trip to Monday 9am seems like the overkill aspect. What I do not understand is on a Thursday, it only takes 6 hours to travel back to Monday 9am. This is problematic. Every time they go to Monday 9am, they are only in the box 6 hours no matter how late in the week it is. When they reset to Monday 5am, it is a solitary 1o hour trip in the box. This is not a per second/ per second travelling equation.

    Using O2 for 6 or 10 hours inside the box while surrounded by electronics components does not seem safe. Shane mentions [as Aaron] that climbing into the box is like a coffin. The O2 is needed due to the machine being drenched in an inert gas [argon] for reasons that remain unclear.

    The small first machine ran on 2 12v batteries. It would stand to reason the larger machines; 2 of them, would require more power. Most of the storage rooms I've been in have no outlets.

    Most hotels checkout by 11am and check in at 2-3pm to afford the cleaning and upkeep of the rooms, you would be hard pressed in america to check in at 9am. Since they are making extra money day trading; they can afford any associated expenses with the hotel room.

    Aaron 0 survives, albeit ignorant, and is stashed away. But the rest of the doubles from the alternate timelines supposedly disappear into the past.

    For One Week of time travel, this is absolutely HELL. Not to mention the side effects, ruined penmanship, passing out, and the bleeding ear.

    One Week. I so hope time travel is nothing like this method as described and explained. Leave it to a mathematician and engineer to describe it this way. [You know what they do to engineers after they turn forty?]

    From wiki: After shooting, Carruth took two years to fully post-produce Primer. He has since said that this experience was so arduous that he almost abandoned the film on several occasions.

    A note about the discussion on NASA and the 'pen' vs. the pencil. This is a myth. The inventor of the 'Space Pen' produced a pressurized cartridge ball point pen. Pencils are not ideal in zero gravity [mechanical or otherwise] due to breakage / sharpening etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen
    I've watched this movie like twenty times since 2004.
    Rented it during the last days of block buster on a Henry Rollins recommend when he had his show on IFC.
    Jack, you do know Jack.
    You seen to have understood this movie far better than I on far fewer viewings.

    Truth be told I love this movie.
    We watch a brotherhood type bond form from back yard garage engineers seeking wealth and independence through low level patent innovation, then they birth a technological marvel from their genius, hard work and craftiness.
    Then, the two get to explore new found territory together. Virgin frontier.

    I really thought this movie was going to usher in a new age of independent gorilla film making.

    Apparently not.

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    I know Star Mariner has an affinity for time travel but I wonder if he has seen this film and what he thinks.

    Mike Gorman I was very lucky to find the film quite quickly. I just rewatched it partly to make sure the link was still working and since it has been over six months I thought I would review it again.

    DNA there is plenty I still don't quite understand. I am not blessed with an engineering type of outlook. I was a machinist for about 11 years and I understand how things are manufactured, but I also have limited experience with electricity and electronics.

    The people that ultimately figure out time travel will do so in a more practical process rather than a complex one, is my guess.
    Just like the 'lazy mathematician' they mentioned in the beginning of the film.
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Quote Posted by JackMcThorn (here)
    I know Star Mariner has an affinity for time travel but I wonder if he has seen this film and what he thinks.
    Thanks to Bill for providing a download link back here, I watched it right away. I made no further comment at the time because I thought I needed to see it again. More likely multiple viewings were required.

    I thought it was...befuddling. Not the story, not the concept, not the script, all of which were very well done, but the production, in how it was all put together, was I thought... disjointed.

    I get the entire nature of the film was to be somewhat disjointed, it's about time travel, it isn't at all linear, and the plot is like a jigsaw puzzle you have to solve, but I thought it unnecessarily difficult. It could have been easier to follow and understand, that's all I'm saying. Be more accessible than it was.

    The 'illustrated explanation' vid on the first page was, I confess, very helpful in answering the questions I had.

    I like the idea of a film that requires multiple viewings to figure out what's going on, but not to the extent of this film, which found itself in a bit of a muddle at times (several matters remained completely unexplained). I thought this more due to carelessness, or budget, or time constraints, than by design. Because IMO the average viewer shouldn't be coming away with this many questions.

    A very clever film, but I think a bit too clever. Ideally, if they sat down and completely retreated the whole plot, and with a decent budget behind them, a clever experimental film could become a genius hi-gloss remake - and be more importantly, on top of that, a very enjoyable film to watch.
    "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Thank you for taking the time, I had enjoyed the thread https://projectavalon.net/forum4/sho...-time-traveler and thought you might be a good critic.


    Quote Posted by Star Mariner (here)
    A very clever film, but I think a bit too clever. Ideally, if they sat down and completely retreated the whole plot, and with a decent budget behind them, a clever experimental film could become a genius hi-gloss remake - and be more importantly, on top of that, a very enjoyable film to watch.
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    This is a really good movie with a primer flavor.
    It's called THE ENDLESS.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/deta...m_c_lZOsi7_2_1

    This movie is most appreciated by the type who frequent this forum.
    It's a lower budget non Hollywood type movie. Which is a compliment.

    What we have here is a collaboration team of Moorehead and Benson.

    They have done like four movies which are all supposed to be related in a science fiction kind of way.
    I've seen their movie Synchronic and it's pretty good too.




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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    ^ seen both in 2021 - violent but recommended, really good low-budget filmmaking.

    They have another earlier movie, Spring, from 2015

    Quote Evan (Lou Taylor Pucci) is a young American fleeing to Europe to escape his past. While back-packing along the Italian coast, everything changes during a stop at an idyllic Italian village, where he meets and instantly connects with the enchanting and mysterious Louise. A flirtatious romance begins to bloom between the two, however, Evan soon realizes that Louise has been harboring a monstrous, primordial secret that puts both their relationship and their lives in jeopardy.
    Last edited by mountain_jim; 3rd June 2023 at 13:01.
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    For fans of Primer here's a little gem, and it's a short, so you can watch over a cup of coffee.

    Very clever, and very well-done. If you enjoy this, there's a ton of excellent other short films on the same channel called Omeleto.

    STALLED
    Man goes to a public restroom -- and gets trapped in a time paradox.
    19.55mins
    1mill views
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    More generic than merely discussing Primer (but just as interesting), is this rapid-fire video analyzing the different kinds of time travel depicted in a whole bunch of fictional stories and films. (Primer, Back to the Future, Looper, Groundhog Day, and more.)

    This is a fast-forward ride, and you may have to stop and go back to replay one or two parts of it to totally understand it all.


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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Quote Posted by Bill Ryan (here)
    ...
    Great video! The model the narrator prefers is the one that has what he calls 'logical consistency' but this sounds like trying to hoof the problem into a 3rd dimension perspective when it doesn't fit in a 3rd dimension perspective. But it's just the most comfortable way for us to view it.

    It's too boggling.


    Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe:

    Quote “One of the major problems encountered in time travel is not that of becoming your own father or mother. There is no problem in becoming your own father or mother that a broad-minded and well-adjusted family can't cope with. There is no problem with changing the course of history—the course of history does not change because it all fits together like a jigsaw. All the important changes have happened before the things they were supposed to change and it all sorts itself out in the end.

    The major problem is simply one of grammar, and the main work to consult in this matter is Dr. Dan Streetmentioner's Time Traveler's Handbook of 1001 Tense Formations. It will tell you, for instance, how to describe something that was about to happen to you in the past before you avoided it by time-jumping forward two days in order to avoid it. The event will be descibed differently according to whether you are talking about it from the standpoint of your own natural time, from a time in the further future, or a time in the further past and is futher complicated by the possibility of conducting conversations while you are actually traveling from one time to another with the intention of becoming your own mother or father.

    Most readers get as far as the Future Semiconditionally Modified Subinverted Plagal Past Subjunctive Intentional before giving up; and in fact in later aditions of the book all pages beyond this point have been left blank to save on printing costs.

    The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy skips lightly over this tangle of academic abstraction, pausing only to note that the term "Future Perfect" has been abandoned since it was discovered not to be.”

    ― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
    https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/369...time-travel-is

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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Also in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy trilogy of six books is the humorous parody of science fiction time travel: the Campaign for Real Time:

    Quote CAMTIM - The Campaign for Real Time
    From the works of Douglas Adams

    Time Travel is increasingly regarded as a menace. History is being polluted.

    One rationalization of the problem of how Time Travel was actually invented states that time travel was simultaneously discovered at all periods throughout history, but this is clearly bunk. The trouble is that a lot of history is now quite clearly bunk as well.

    Here is an example, significant in that it was this event that caused the Campaign for Real Time (CAMTIM) to be set up in the first/last place (depending on which way you look at history).

    There is/was a poet named Lallafa, and he wrote what are widely regarded as the best poems in existence, the "Songs of the Long Land". They are/were unspeakably wonderful, so you couldn't speak much of them at once without being overcome with emotion, truth, and the wholeness and oneness of it all you needed a quick walk round the block, possibly pausing for a quick glass of perspective and soda.

    They were that good.

    Lallafa had lived in the forests of the Long Lands of Effa. He wrote his poems there on pages made of dried habra leaves, without the benefits of Education or correcting fluid.
    He wrote about the light in the forest and what he thought about that.
    He wrote about the darkness in the forest and what he thought about that.
    He wrote about the girl who had left him and precisely what he thought about that..

    Long after his death his poems were found and wondered over. For centuries they watered and illuminated the lives of many whose lives might otherwise have been darker and drier.

    After the invention of Time Travel some major correcting fluid manufacturers wondered if his poems might have been better still had he had access to some high quality correcting fluid and whether he could be persuaded to say a few words to that effect. They searched through time and found him, and, with a little difficulty, explained the situation to him and did indeed persuade him. In fact they persuaded him to such effect that he became extremely rich at their hands, the girl which he was otherwise destined to write about never got around to leaving him, and they moved out of the forest to a rather nice pad in town and he frequently commuted to the future to do chat shows on which he sparkled wittily.

    He never got around to writing the poems, of course, which was a problem, but an easily solved one. The manufacturers of correcting fluid merely packed him off for a week with a copy of a later edition of his book and a stack of dried habra leaves to copy them onto, making the odd deliberate mistake and correction on the way.

    Many people now say the poems are suddenly worthless. Others argue they are just the same as they always were so why argue? The first people say that that isn't the point. They aren't quite certain what the point is but they are quite sure that that isn't it. So they set up CAMTIM to try and stop this sort of thing going on. Their case was strengthened by the fact that a week after they had set themselves up, news broke that not only had the great Cathedral of Chalesm been pulled down in order to build a new ion refinery, but that the construction of the refinery had taken so long, and had had to extend so far into the past in order to allow production to start on time, that the Cathedral of Chalesm had now never been built in the first place. Picture postcards of the Cathedral now became immensely valuable.

    So a lot of history is now gone for ever. The Campaign for Real Time claim that, just as easy travel eroded the differences between one country and another, or one world and another, so time travel is now eroding the differences between one age and another. "The Past", they say, "is like a foreign country. They do things exactly the same there."
    http://yule.org/camtim/

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    Germany Avalon Member wegge's Avatar
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    I recently ordered "Einstein's Dreams" by Alan Lightman - stories of different kinds of time. This is the description:

    "A modern classic, Einstein's Dreams is a fictional collage of stories dreamed by Albert Einstein in 1905, when he worked in a patent office in Switzerland. As the defiant but sensitive young genius is creating his theory of relativity, a new conception of time, he imagines many possible worlds. In one, time is circular, so that people are fated to repeat triumphs and failures over and over. In another, there is a place where time stands still, visited by lovers and parents clinging to their children. In another, time is a nightingale, sometimes trapped by a bell jar."

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    UK Avalon Founder Bill Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: PRIMER (2004): the best (and most complex) time travel movie ever made

    Dave Cullen (a YouTube movie reviewer, who normally wrestles with things like Disney, Snow White, and The Marvels ) had never heard of Primer, but was recommended to watch it for the first time just a few days ago. He does a VERY good job of reviewing it, and he clearly understood what was happening as well.

    What made me smile is that as all movie reviewers rightly do, a couple of minutes into his video he gives a spoiler warning and says if you've not watched the movie, then stop this review now and go watch Primer yourself first.

    No no no!! You need all the spoilers you can find before you see the movie, or else it's likely to be bewildering to try to follow for the first time. NOT a joke. (It does no harm to hear the 'spoilers' at all, and you may not even understand all of those!!)

    Primer (2004) Review: An Incredible Time Travel Story (Spoilers)


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