PLEIADIAN Books: FRAUD or LEGIT? (Your quick opinion)

[TargeT]

Posted by peterpam (here)
At the end of the day, if someone has been able to make positive changes from this information it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

yes, this is all that matters really; it just seems that the majority of "channeled info" followers are at best "slacktavists" & at worst Slacktavist recruiters...


Anything that is built on a foundation of lies/fraud to me is not a building I will willingly enter, no matter HOW awesome the furniture is or how amazing the paint job.


Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy: Appeal to Authority (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion" mixed in with a few others as well).

[Twelve]

Thanks for the insights everyone.

TargeT, I definitely wouldn't say that all channeling is built on the appeal to authority. There is some channeling that quite clearly leaves all of the authority in our hands- completely- but simply acts as a guide and reminds us to turn within to our true higher self and inner knowingness. The best case of the clearest form of channeling in my opinion, like I have mentioned before, can be found in the unparalleled work that exposes all of the inner workings of the ego as well as the beautiful reality of our true self, A Course In Miracles. The channel, Helen Schucman, was an atheist, had a temper, and was not the typical spiritual person at all. Yet she was a very evolved soul in another way and did have a deep spiritual side that allowed her to possibly be the clearest and best channel in history to scribe such a work as A Course In Miracles. The work itself has been much misunderstood, especially due to its Christian language (seen as a correction to Christianity), but anyone who reads it truly, while also reading the deep explanation of it from Kenneth Wapnick (who I've personally met, and who was known by everyone to have ever met him to be enlightened and completely ego free- I've never seen such a love in a person.... truly a love not of this world), would recognize that the love that inspired the book is not of this world. And yet the love that inspired the book also dissects the workings of the ego (thought system of separation and fear) like no other work ever channeled. In fact nothing even comes close. But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy. I think that may be too closed minded of a view on the subject. This particular channeled work makes it very clear throughout that we have all the power, and in fact there is nothing but us, for we are one Mind that thinks it is many.

Anyhow, it's clear that A Course In Miracles is my spiritual path, and in one sense I don't need any other, Pleiadian or otherwise. However, since I discovered David Icke's books and learned of the true nature of the illusion we live in (which is not discussed in A Course In Miracles for that focuses only on the level of the Mind and not the level of form), I have been fascinated and want to know, if nothing but from pure curiosity, of other ways to heal and evolve as a soul that could complement my work with the Course. And this new path has led to some conundrums, to say the least But it's all good and I'm trying to keep it lighthearted as I figure out what's "real" and what's not in this grand illusion we call life.

Appreciate all of your comments and happy to be a part of this community.

[RunningDeer]

Posted by TargeT (here)

Posted by peterpam (here)
At the end of the day, if someone has been able to make positive changes from this information it shouldn't really matter where it comes from.

yes, this is all that matters really; it just seems that the majority of "channeled info" followers are at best "slacktavists" & at worst Slacktavist recruiters...


Anything that is built on a foundation of lies/fraud to me is not a building I will willingly enter, no matter HOW awesome the furniture is or how amazing the paint job.


Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy: Appeal to Authority (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion" mixed in with a few others as well).

YourLogicalFallacyIs.com is a good resource site. Thanks, Target.

In case people missed it or prefer not to download the poster, click on each of the 24 icons and it’ll bring up the definition. Go back to the main page by clicking on the banner at the top.

[TargeT]

Posted by Twelve (here)
Thanks for the insights everyone.

TargeT, I definitely wouldn't say that all channeling is built on the appeal to authority. There is some channeling that quite clearly leaves all of the authority in our hands- .

Right, but "appeal to authority" isn't a nebulous concept, it has a very clear definition: Saying a thing is true because an authority figure told you, therefor it must be true. (my paraphrasing)

Posted by Twelve (here)
But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy.

Almost all channeling has this type of formula: "some admiral in the Pleiadian army is channeling this info through me, so it is true".... This is a very good example of the logical fallacy "appeal to authority".

Logical fallacy is a component of critical thinking, it sets emotion to the side (for simplicity) and attempts to clarify communication and ensure that "logic" is used to find out conclusions. It's a highly structured way of thinking that will quickly show you when someone is trying to manipulate you through "tricky words" or "double talk" or any of the myriad of other verbal techniques that are used to guide (or trick) the human mind.

This information used to be taught ubiquitously via the Trivium and Quadrivium. until it was decided that an educated population was less attractive than a dumbed down one.

[waves]

Posted by MorningFox (here)

Posted by waves (here)
I don't think aliens would be using all the slang and sometime backwoods colloquialisms or making the stupid jokes for starters.

Rubbishing something off due to your own lack of understanding isn't really the best thing to do. I understand where you're coming from but how on earth do you know that real channelled information wouldn't use colloquialisms and stupid jokes? After all it's probably that if it is real and does exist, the ideas would come in to the mind in form as knowledge and would still have to be expressed through the human, in the humans terms.

Yes, I did rationalize it off that way at first because the material resonated with me so strongly and I enjoyed believing it. I reconsidered when I realized the slang and colloquialisms would also be true that if the channeling was fraudulent and delivered by a clever backwoods charlatan or psyops pawn, it would also be littered with the limits of the deliverer's prejudices and habits of expression.

Also, back then Marciniak was marketing herself in consort with and as if in total agreement with Clow and I made myself ignore big red flags wondering how Marciniak's info could be true when Clow's energy was so grossly repulsive.

My post may have mistakenly implied that I'm saying I think everything in Marciniak's books is wrong. I have also come to realize that the most effective manipulative disinfo isn't just lies, it's more frequently a cleverly woven mixture. I now regard her stuff as a former 'stepping stone' like Lancet said, but suspect there can be manipulative danger within the writing I am unaware of how to defend myself from, so I avoid any further exposure.

Since you feel I have a 'lack of understanding' about channeling and are seemingly defending your proven better knowledge and coming to Marciniak's defense please explain how you have proven to yourself the existence of pleiadians, her validity as someone 'channeling' one and/or that's it's ever valid, and how you tell the difference between very clever psyop delivered channelling and a supposed real one.

I haven't found any confirmation yet of channeling validity, but lots for highly sophisticated psyops ability and long term clever agendas since the 50's. A big pervasive clue to me is that despite these supposed knowledgeable all seeing eyes that are supposedly freely accessing minds and seem to want to explain such specific detail about human mind, souls and history, NONE ever address specific current world affairs, players or address such huge and long implemented psyop infiltration agendas in the same realm.

As a psyops tool, channeling only very big, airy, conceptual, unprovable musing littered with truth is a great agenda for pressing big buttons of existence questioning needs to keep eyes off of the earthly manipulators of the tangible world, and keep the more dangerous, intelligent thinkers from thinking and organizing.

[raregem]

Posted by ghostrider (here)
There are no pleadians, that term was put out by the Plejaren and Edward Meier to openly expose hoaxers ...you can read some of what the plejaren had to say about certain individuals in the contact notes , visit the future of mankinds website and just type in the name in question... There were 5 or 6 people in telepathic contact with them most are passed away now ... One is still alive...

Ghostrider- I want to thank you for your thought out responses on PA.
I have a thought regarding this statement.. I have heard/ read this idea before. At some point I think people have understood Plejaren is the correct name instead of Pleiadians. I wonder if people use Pleiadian simply because it is so common even if they know better....just a thought...Also, I find any and all absolutes these days still questionable. So much info, so many condradictory differences in the same subject. Also, what about the letter "J" ..how does that come into play when it didn't exist 2000 years ago.? Thanks again raregem

[DeDukshyn]

Posted by TargeT (here)
...

Channeling is built entirely on the logical fallacy: Appeal to Authority (though for spice there's a lot of "Appeal to emotion" mixed in with a few others as well).

Not all "channeled" material comes from a place of an imagined or perceived authority; But I do get a kick out of Channeled messages from names like "General Maktrakon of the Starship Euphestus, leader of the betazoid race" -- well I made all that up of course, but one gets the idea.

The only "channelings" that really resonate with me aren't really even channelings (by the technical definition as provided by JZ Knight / Ramtha), but the source is not revealed in them at all - there is no "authority" or even a loose description of the source -- just a message. So while a fairly broad brush can be used in your observation, an all encompassing one would be erroneous. I think Bashar may be an exception to that "rule", I like his messages, they make good sense.


On the OP question, I will say that any channeling that seems to have a well defined "source", such as a specific group of a specific species of alien, or from an authoritative "archangel" generally does not resonate with me much. I have to throw pleiadian channeling in that group. At the same time, as other's mentioned, I don't criticize works that have true intention and provide tools for people to better themselves, I can judge specific pieces well enough that I don't need to care about the source of material as much as others have to rely on ... this is an incredibly useful tool, but I also understand that not everyone has the capacity for this level of discernment, and therefore rely on judgement of the source, rather than judgment of the material. I believe we all need to strive to reach the model where we can bring discernment to things for what they are, and rely less on having a preformed judgment on what the source is, to try to determine the value of the material.

[ghostrider]

They knew from the beginning, hoaxers would come out of the woodwork, they use telepathic impulses to bring a needed advancement to a world when it ready for the next step in evolution... As for the spelling, the correct way is with a J, I'm a terrible speller so I roll with it... The people that are sent impulses have no idea what is happening, it's done that way across the universe... We think it's great minds of our generation, it's really our watchers helping us evolve when we are ready... Their ancestors called themselves the sons of heaven, hint...

[Ron Mauer Sr]

I have really enjoyed information from Barbara Marciniak and her Pleiadians, including her books, audio tapes and live channeling sessions.
Around 1991, she was my introduction to learning about the reptilians.

Two other sources of channeled information I've enjoyed are Esther Hicks (Abraham) and the *early* teachings of Ramtha (the White Book).

I cannot say how accurate these sources are but I can say that I have enjoyed them.

My wish is to connect to my own HS and get truthful answers to all my questions, hopefully before this 73 year old vehicle croaks. And when that finally happens, much discernment will still be required, while wearing a meatsuit or not.

If HS materializes in this reality sometime for a chat, I feel certain I will get a smile returned when I ask "Who the hell are you?". Until then I expect to remain a constant source of entertainment for HS as he/she turns to his/her associates, laughs and says "Look at what he is doing now!"

Question everything. The truth is never hurt by shinning more light on it.

[JChombre]

Posted by Twelve (here)
The books inspired me to make many positive changes ... and to be more compassionate even as I look on the "dark" inside of me and the world, and so on and so on.

In short, only good has come of it, and not of the simplistic new age kind that has me thinking only positive thoughts and not acknowledging the darker aspects of myself or the world.

So I can't for the life of me understand what others are seeing in these books that I'm missing that makes them think Marciniak is a fraud and an agent of disinformation.

Dear Twelve,

Thank you so much for your insightful post. I would like you to know that I appreciate your honesty and openness.

Quite a long time ago, I read the work of Marciniak, Amorah Quan Li and Hand Clow. In fact, I spent a three-day weekend attending Barbara Marciniak workshops. However I don't consider myself an expert in their work, and I have not being involved with them for many years. So I am going to disappoint you by not telling you whether or not they are fraud. One thing that I can tell you is that in those days, I got exposed to the work of several people and that helped me open up to the world of spirituality at a time when I was trying to understand things that I could not explain in my life... So, I am grateful that these ladies' and so many other people's work came to my life.

As far as whether or not their information is true, let's me just say that in my humble opinion, ALL the information that is currently available to us in this world is distorted. There is not such a thing as a 100% accurate information or story. The distortion can be deliberately introduced; or it can happen in a non-malicious way, e.i. in the way that the information energy is given/received, or is interpreted or translated into words.

So for me the focus is not really on the absolute truthfulness of the teachings. My focus is to find what is true in a distorted story or teaching; and once I find it, figure out (if possible) how to use it in my life. Again, from my humble perspective, there is an element of truth in every story or teaching, so we cannot discard every story because of these inaccuracies. After all, "we don't throw away the baby with the bath water." Of course, I would prefer to work on a story that is 25% than 80% distorted.

So how do we find what is true in a story? I don't have to say anything to you about it because you are doing it extremely well. What I learned as I read your posts is that, you know how to take the information inside and "listen" to it. Then, you have learned to accept what resonates with you. So if some of Marciniak, Amorah or Hand Clow's information resonate with you and has helped you change your life positively; then, that is the true for you in these ladies's teachings. And that's good news because it shows that you have learned to use your divine inner discernment to find the truth in what some might consider a sea of distortion.

I would like to point out that what is true for you or what resonates with you in the three ladies' work may not resonate with other people, and that is fine. It does not mean that you are wrong or that they are right. It simply means that in this life time, at this specific time the information presented is not required for their spiritual development. To illustrate this point, a long time ago I tried to read/study A Course of Miracles several times, but for some reasons it just didn't work for me...Does it mean that it is a bad book or that the information presented is worthless? Not at all! I understand that A Course in Miracles is not a book that I had bookmarked to use in my spiritual search in this lifetime.

My point here is that your truth is yours only, and other people truth is their only. So it is going to be very challenging to convince some people that Marciniak, Amorah and Hand Clow have anything valuable to offer to them in this life time, at this specific time; and that is ok.

Many blessings to you.

JC

[Twelve]

JC, thank you so much for your perceptive post. What you say rings true for me I think you made a very good point, and indeed it has been how I've tended to look at things in the past. It's just recently that I've gotten a bit too caught up in the idea of disinformation by the "dark" powers, and I've let that idea grow stronger than it should have. My own intuitive discernment has never led me astray, and when it has led me to things that were not meant to be a part of my path, they somehow ended up quickly helping me anyways by showing me what I don't consider true for me. So they didn't end up being bad things. Thank you so much for your gentle reminder.

Much love.

[MorningFox]

Posted by waves (here)

Since you feel I have a 'lack of understanding' about channeling and are seemingly defending your proven better knowledge and coming to Marciniak's defense please explain how you have proven to yourself the existence of pleiadians, her validity as someone 'channeling' one and/or that's it's ever valid, and how you tell the difference between very clever psyop delivered channelling and a supposed real one.

haha, don't be so defensive. I know NOTHING about channeling and don't have strong opinions for or against the existence of pleiadians. My point was simply that you can't rubbish something off simply because it doesn't fit with your limited understanding of it.

[TargeT]

Posted by Ron Mauer Sr (here)
Question everything. The truth is never hurt by shinning more light on it.

I've been saying that for years; it's never a bad philosophy.

Posted by Twelve (here)
My own intuitive discernment has never led me astray, and when it has led me to things that were not meant to be a part of my path, they somehow ended up quickly helping me anyways by showing me what I don't consider true for me. So they didn't end up being bad things.

Definitely hard to keep that in mind some times; but that's all that matters.

Posted by Twelve (here)
It's just recently that I've gotten a bit too caught up in the idea of disinformation by the "dark" powers

haha, hello mirror!

[Valley]

Nice discussion, fine folks... It seems to me that we're all 'channeling' something, or portions of 'something', much greater than our current imaginations can muster. So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?... Or, How much clarity is present?... and, How is this material affecting my consciousness/awareness/advancement?

As far as Marciniak's material goes... I have a short story on my first introduction to it, several years ago: One day I said to the 'Universe'... Put me in contact with some real good ETs, please. Just a day or few later I found her first "P" book, "Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. It seemed quite magical to me at the time, and after reading through it for a while I realized that there was great wisdom/advice being given, many times in a quite playful and humorous fashion. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself. Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Brings to mind this old TV show used to watch as a kid...

Source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=MNhu-aESVqc

[waves]

Posted by Twelve (here)
...The best case of the clearest form of channeling in my opinion, like I have mentioned before, can be found in the unparalleled work that exposes all of the inner workings of the ego as well as the beautiful reality of our true self, A Course In Miracles. The channel, Helen Schucman, was an atheist, had a temper, and was not the typical spiritual person at all. Yet she was a very evolved soul in another way and did have a deep spiritual side that allowed her to possibly be the clearest and best channel in history to scribe such a work as A Course In Miracles. The work itself has been much misunderstood, especially due to its Christian language (seen as a correction to Christianity), but anyone who reads it truly, while also reading the deep explanation of it from Kenneth Wapnick (who I've personally met, and who was known by everyone to have ever met him to be enlightened and completely ego free- I've never seen such a love in a person.... truly a love not of this world), would recognize that the love that inspired the book is not of this world. And yet the love that inspired the book also dissects the workings of the ego (thought system of separation and fear) like no other work ever channeled. In fact nothing even comes close. But the point is, that not all channeled work is built on a fallacy. I think that may be too closed minded of a view on the subject. This particular channeled work makes it very clear throughout that we have all the power, and in fact there is nothing but us, for we are one Mind that thinks it is many.

Anyhow, it's clear that A Course In Miracles is my spiritual path, and in one sense I don't need any other, Pleiadian or otherwise. However, since I discovered David Icke's books and learned of the true nature of the illusion we live in (which is not discussed in A Course In Miracles for that focuses only on the level of the Mind and not the level of form), I have been fascinated and want to know, if nothing but from pure curiosity, of other ways to heal and evolve as a soul that could complement my work with the Course. And this new path has led to some conundrums, to say the least But it's all good and I'm trying to keep it lighthearted as I figure out what's "real" and what's not in this grand illusion we call life.

Appreciate all of your comments and happy to be a part of this community.

More and more authors, speakers and truth seekers I formerly respected seem to be falling every week as I go deeper down this hole. This is how clever, insidious and successful the creation of the New Age movement and introduction of the concept of channeling has been, apparently twisting very deeply soul resonant concepts with a very specific and manipulative dark agenda. There's a lot of dot connecting on this site that gives great pause. Here's one little snapshot of Thetford/Course in Miracles CIA/MKUltra connections..

https://webbrain.com/brainpage/brain...DA541AAA#-6685

[Valley]

One thing I find rather important in considering this general topic is to not think so much about what others are doing, or trying to do... and instead to look more at what we are doing ourselves. It can become very emotionally distracting/disturbing if we spend 'too much' time contemplating someone else's possible 'dark' deeds/agendas. I also realize that being proactive, progressive, and helpful/heartfelt towards others is 'the way to go'.

[Twelve]

Waves.... yes I'm aware that William Thetford was previously part of the CIA. But that doesn't mean he was part of the "dark" side, nor that he couldn't have extricated himself if he was. Also, he wasn't the channel. In the end, I agree with Valley, and I think that the webbrain site you reference possibly has some key holes in its deductions. Ultimately, anyone who understands the Course at a deep level would clearly see that nothing but good and love could come out of it, especially since it exposes every aspect of darkness we try to keep hidden within ourselves. The love permeates every page, and the metaphysical backdrop is that the Course is not talking to us as a seemingly separated body, but as the Mind that dreamt up the whole illusion of separation to begin with, putting us in the ultimate seat of power. Once again, though, I would not recommend anyone take up the study of the Course without reading the work of Dr. Kenneth Wapnick, who, apart from his brilliance of understanding and teaching the complex metaphysical concepts the Course is based on, if there were ever a truly enlightened being walking on this earth, he was it (from personal experience of knowing him).

But in the end, like others have mentioned, the best thing to do is to trust your intuition and inner guiding voice and not assume that any source that contradicts with what you're feeling is proving that you are wrong.

[Ron Mauer Sr]

Posted by Valley (here)
One thing I find rather important in considering this general topic is to not think so much about what others are doing, or trying to do... and instead to look more at what we are doing ourselves. It can become very emotionally distracting/disturbing if we spend 'too much' time contemplating someone else's possible 'dark' deeds/agendas. I also realize that being proactive, progressive, and helpful/heartfelt towards others is 'the way to go'.

I suspect we are always creating with our thoughts and emotions. It is better to be a deliberate creator (imagining how it feels to already have what we want) instead of a default creator (reacting to things we do not want).

[bettye198]

I too, was sucked into Bringers of the Dawn but like someone did post, it stimulated an awakening. However, Barbara M. has fallen through the cracks and I learned she had a brain tumor! Beyond all that, any channeling I feel is a vulnerable placement whereas any entity can join in. So disinfo is prevalent and who knows? may be a tool for the New Age curricula. I did resonate with Ashayana Deane now called E'Asha with her books on the planetary history: Voyagers Vol 1 and 2. Comprehensive amazing detailed info and even after I read it many times, it still boggles my mind! She does not channel. It is called active streaming. The Beloveds are 13-14-15th Dimensional beings of consciousness who wrote the tablets she streams from to write the books. She was groomed by the Hawaiian Melchisedek High priests from early age to learn to do this. By the end of the 90's she accomplished the writings. Since then her workshops are ongoing and pretty spectacular with new info all the time. I studied many years and in that time worked with her meditations to elevate the DNA frequency. Her premise is to elevate that in order to exit the ancient gates in order to avoid reincarnation wheel. We need to launch out of this dimensional hold.

[JChombre]

Posted by Valley (here)

So is channeling 'real'/possible? I think so. If so, then a question might be, How much 'static' is on any particular 'channel'?...

"Bringers of the Dawn"... at a local thrift shop, for 10 cents. The other thing that struck me was how they were talking about detailed ancient universal 'storylines'/players I'd never heard of before... in such a casual fashion. Oh yeah, and some of the most fascinating things they mentioned... That they came from very far ahead in the future, that they were time-jumpers, and they came from another Universe that had completed itself. Even if this all wasn't true, it was greatly expanding my mind in the overall 'scope' of possibilities that I never considered before. For one who enjoys a good science-fiction movie/story... this was simply fantastic reading to me.

Hi Valley,

I agree with you that channeling is possible. However I feel that there is always a static/distortion in the traditional channeling where the information move from a discarnate being to a physical one who transcribes the message in words.

I think that the only time when the static/distortion is decreased to almost nothing is when a person receives the information from his higher-self/god-self. However, beyond that point, even with adequate protection, there is always a certain level of distortion even when the information originates and is transcribed in words by the same person.

So you paid 10 cents for Bringers of the Dawn!!! Really an amazing gift from the universe. I pretty much had the same type of experience than you with this book. It expanded my horizons to unlimited levels considering my very rigid catholic upbringing and my rigorous training in science...This book and the ones that came my way later on helped me understand a lot of things, among which that I was ok (e.i., not crazy)

During the 3 days that I spent with Barbara Marciniak, she did something very interesting. I asked her a question about some information from one of her books. She was in trance and answered my question by quoting word-for-word the passage in her book that I was referring to. She did that over and over with other questions from the audience.

Another interesting thing that I learned from an old friend is that the information in Bringers of the Dawn is not static; meaning that the content of the book could shift to something else. She re-read the book after many years and found some information that she did not see the first time that she read the book... I was able to verify that.

Have a wonderful evening.

JC