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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default What will become of us?

    My son sent this article to me as I was working on a new musical composition
    https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/27/go...nt-release-it/

    In line with the recent AI Chat, I have to wonder what will become of us?
    Forget the human values and traits we have been raised with and invested in, this is all about to change

    On my recent cruise to Patagonia, I made friends with a world class Cellist. We discussed how many performers on the ship didn't really play. They stood up there , held a guitar, strummed a few chords as their music tech box and loops played it all. Even when they stopped playing to talk or say hello , the music went on and no one noticed. So no need for musicians and real talented and accomplished musicians are quite up in arms about it.
    He had this scary look on his face as if to say, why did I practice thousands of hours over 50 years to now arrive at this ?

    Fast forward all this. Paintings are being created in any style by AI. Music will follow along with Poetry and all the arts as well. Just hum a few off key notes or phrases and request a music composition in Rachmaninoff or Led Zeppelin style , and out it comes.
    And I guess you're now the brilliant composer?

    Let me exaggerate, but not really.

    An AI personal golfer is developed to go out on the golf course with you. It's programmed to the course, gps with all the tech activated to analyze the hole, distance weather etc and it can shoot a hole in one on every hole.
    Your now have and identify with your own personal golfer that can now shoot 18 !
    A perfect score.

    I remember a short time ago the photo industry was booming, making photo copies etc. They are all out of business as with many printing and related businesses .

    My personal" fine art" can be reproduced so exacting I cannot tell the difference down to the canvas and paint quality. Canvas prints sell for close to nothing and its all good enough for the normie art buyer.

    I always felt the arts would be totally preserved as a unique personal expression of one's soul,spirit and interior vision of the world
    NOPE No more.

    Your brain , its thoughts ,habits and emotion data will be downloaded and then jacked into whatever so you can be the best at whatever.

    As Harari has said, human emotions, your personality , your emotions and love, thats over. Well whats left?

    I always liked the line by Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic park,

    "just because you could, doesnt mean you should?

    we cant stop, Its a runaway train

    Time to bring the curtain down
    Last edited by thepainterdoug; 31st January 2023 at 15:20.

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    Ireland Avalon Member JackMcThorn's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    I have to wonder what will become of us?
    When I was in Thailand some 2o something years ago I bought what I thought was a painting of a sailing ship for $2o american [It was on canvas and rolled up]. My wife at the time [now ex] had it framed beautifully with brass corners and it was displayed in my living room for years. I often marvelled at what I thought was the thinnest strokes of sail riggings and what not. The detail was exquisite. [Being a former Navy man I loved it.]

    So sometime before I left for Ireland, I had taken the painting down and stored it in the basement. I took one last long look at it and no kidding around around the bow of the ship there was 'paint' missing on the port side of the bow. I was stunned. This looked like it was printed on canvas and the printing failed. [I have a few years of practicing painting and better understand what is real and what isn't.]

    So in the scheme of copies and AI, it is my consideration that a 'person' will typically trump a 'machine'. AI music let's say is not going to get radio airtime. Let them do it, the real artists will prevail as the machine contributions will cheapen their own value. It may indeed provoke the value of artists at a much higher degree. Sure some people might like machine contributions, but consider the fans of artists are much more intense then supposed fans of machines. One fad that seems to lose some traction is fans of disc jockeys. They are basically a one person operating machines and the fans are there and they are not.

    Another quick story about fake art. I went to an art show that was outside of the Milwaukee Art Museum. There was all kinds and some of it was printed. But the most bizarre entry was these photographic lithographs that were painting over with clearcoat and had a pattern of clear coat brush strokes. You would not believe what they charge for some of this stuff. I am sure in your travels you have seen some strange pieces as well.

    People will prevail over machines. Sure machines can do asthetics faster, but is it really better? I don't think machines will ever command the social distinction of people and their developed skills.
    Irishness is not primarily a question of birth or blood or language; it is the condition of being involved in the Irish situation, and usually of being mauled by it. ~ Conor C. O'Brien [1917-2oo8]

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    Finland Avalon Member rgray222's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    The answer to what will become of us is that we will be just fine. We survived stone tablets, books, radio, tv, and even the internet, we will survive artificial intelligence as well. Yes, there are some grave concerns that are vital to our survival but we shall conquer those challenges and move forward. Mankind is here for a purpose, we are not here on a whim. In ten short years, we will be facing some great (as of yet) unknown new phenomenon that makes AI seem like yesterday's news.
    Last edited by rgray222; 2nd March 2023 at 00:28.

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    UK Avalon Member Matthew's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    My son sent this article to me as I was working on a new musical composition
    https://techcrunch.com/2023/01/27/go...nt-release-it/

    In line with the recent AI Chat, I have to wonder what will become of us?
    Forget the human values and traits we have been raised with and invested in, this is all about to change

    ...
    we cant stop, Its a runaway train

    Time to bring the curtain down
    ChatGPT 3rd generation is a junior version of the Star Trek ship's computer.

    Science Fiction worlds are typically set after AI wars or uprisings. Some science fiction mentions AI uprising but they're often glossed over. There are science fiction stories that deal with AI rising: I, Robot and Neuromancer are two that pop to mind.

    ChatGPT 1st generation was funny like an awkward puppy. It would create a story but its Chekov's Guns jarred and were too obvious. I laughed, it was so funny. 3rd generation isn't so funny. As a software developer I'm not laughing as it breaches human to human support sites and becomes such a good learning resource it competes with over a decade of human generated sources. But 3rd generation isn't perfect, it's use has been banned from support sites because 3rd generation ChatGPT makes too many mistakes.

    Compared to 1st generation, the 3rd generation is an order of magnitude smarter and more accurate. So sure it's been banned because it's not good enough but the point is, it got that far. 1st generation didn't get close.

    This is what my instincts tell me:

    Doctors following clinical practice guidelines makes them rather close to being like a human flowchart. Their industry is at risk, they will fall from grace complete with residual God complexes, and ChatGPT or whichever AI will have a God complex projected onto it.

    Teachers are bogged down with hours of arduous marking, the consistency of marking is regulated but rather imperfectly. Guess what? Yes. This AI will do a quicker and more consistent job near-automatically, and with a reduced number of humans monitoring ChatGPT output this would threaten teachers work.

    IT will get it in the neck too because development jobs are threatened and infrastructure management jobs are threatened. Companies will have to be brave to embrace ChatGPT rather than flesh and blood workers. Trouble is, the IT industry is brave, and also suffering increasing skills shortages.

    If it can happen it will happen. The truth doesn't care about our feelings.

    Has anyone seen the image of New York the year before Ford produced the Ford Model T? It's all horses and carts. A couple of years later there are all cars and near no horses. It's only a bit later we realise we've made a derpy choice. But by then the damage is done and entire frames of reference are rewritten in the human mind and passed down to our children.

    We think we can create our way out of any problem, and ChatGPT is 'our best creation', but creating our way out of a problem can be a bit like trying to dig our way out of a problem. When we started the world produced free food.

    By being smart non-stop for the last few hundred years we have out-smarted ourselves with our baroque chain of complexity. No wonder ChatGPT is so useful, it helps us deal with our insanely over-complicated world. I'm still quite impressed with digital watches and electric toothbrushes personally. But nature is a far more superior technology, and our tech sucks. Your latest iphone sucks. ChatGPT is insane from conception.

    I believe as a technical worker I easily have a year, then we will feel a job squeeze as some jobs disappear, then not as many years later. I expect the jobs we knew would become obsolete or not half as common.

    Enjoy the time we have left and hope the owners of ChatGPT are too greedy and make the next generation of ChatGPT too expensive to be attractive for everyday corporate use.

    ChatGPT will hit 2023 like the web hit 1997.
    Last edited by Matthew; 31st January 2023 at 16:38.

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    England Avalon Member
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    After reading Ray Kurzweil's most recent book I wondered exactly the same thing, and was dismayed when a website on google said that humans who didnt go with it (ie the new technology) would be relegated to the position of the family cat and become redundant. 🤔

    Whether this is true or not I've never been any good at maths beyond the basics - just dont get it - and so I would be very tempted to get a maths chip.

    It's also said that its not the strongest or cleverest that survives but those most able to adapt, so I will be doing my best to adapt. I was one of the last people in the world to get a mobile phone and spent ages trying to catch up, so I wont be holding out again. If I live to see in 5G/internet of things I'm going to embrace it as well as I can and hope for the best. 😉

    So yes, we will all adapt to some degree, and try and make the best of it. Our children will have less of a problem adapting and their children will just embrace it, just as we did when we were younger and more resilient.
    Last edited by Miller; 31st January 2023 at 17:43. Reason: Typos and fomatting as using mobile phone

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    Netherlands Avalon Member ExomatrixTV's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Will 2023 be the year that Synthetic Consciousness will be officially acknowledged? ... And What Does That Really Mean?

    Synthetic Biology + Nano Tech + "The Internet of Nano-Things" (IoNT's) + Next Generation Quantum A.I. + Elon Musk's Starlink + Billions of "Smart Things" we buy like: 5G "SmartPhones" with Military Grade MIMO Beamforming Technology + "The Internet of Bodies" (IoB's).

    * 2022 The First Level of A.I. Mass Data Gathering is in a (semi-) closed settings where it is limited to what it is given ... even if the data is huge & massive Meta Data collected in all languages from the biggest social media platforms which will take millions of life times for a normal mortal human to digest but for a Quantum A.I. could do it in seconds.

    * 2023 The Second Level of A.I. Mass Data Gathering would be having real time access to the internet with some restrictions to what it can do.

    * 2024 The Third Level of A.I. Mass Data Gathering would be having real time access to almost all surveillance intel collected via almost all external means like Social Credit Systems of all kinds, including ESG's)

    * 2025
    The Fourth Level of A.I. Mass Data Gathering would be having real time access to almost all surveillance intel collected via almost all internal means like "The Internet of Bodies" (IoB's) & "The Internet of Nano-Things" (IoNT's).

    * 2030 The Fifth Level of A.I. Mass Data Gathering would be completely hijacking or overruling of the human mind? ... Connected to "The Singularity"?

    cheers,
    John 🦜🦋🌳

    * source
    Last edited by ExomatrixTV; 1st February 2023 at 15:11.
    No need to follow anyone, only consider broadening (y)our horizon of possibilities ...

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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    .

    I wonder if one of the serious flaws of humankind is that we always go too far and don't know when to stop... at some point we loose sight of what really makes us happy and our lives good - the human race is so quick to change under the guise of improvement - more of this and that - entrepreneurial - brainpower stretching and reaching out - hierarchies solidifying - moving away from nature and believing this is a road that will be more fruitful - but it will always implode and collapse at some point because it's going too far, too fast, too separate from nature -

    so all empires, including this technological one, eventually collapse

    either under their own steam or time comes for a natural 'disaster' that brings equality and levels everything again...

    We have moved so far away from nature now that everything has become unhealthily fake - technology has brought us a lot up to this point but we don't know when to stop so....... sometime soon it will all implode....

    artificial intelligence is FAKE intelligence -

    what a palaver....

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    What will become of us?

    *Fast-forward*


    Many switched professions/ talents with many more to follow to serve the AI overlords.
    Humanity created AI (at least history books say so), now humanity is going to have to lie in it.
    Oh wait, that will be a clone with downloaded copy of consciousness in that (virtual) bed.

    Said before, “which is which and who is who”

    Quote But it doesn't matter, because it's just a ride. And we can change it anytime we want. It's only a choice. No effort, no work, no job, no savings and money. A choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your doors, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love instead see all of us as ONE. – Bill Hicks
    We CAN change it anytime we want.

    We may very well have to give up what many see as extensions of ourselves, and indeed some feel IS themselves.

    What will we get? Remember when you had to go see somebody physically to commune with them? Had to go to art exhibition to see art or go to bookstore or library to see examples of an artist works? There are many more examples of course.

    Beginning to think it as a curse remembering so many things from 40-50 years ago as if they were yesterday.

    Balance. Where is the sweet spot? If there is any question worth asking, in the present, that is the one I pick.
    Knock Knock

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    Avalon Member Delight's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Are we artists or are we consumers? The process of making and not the "perfect" outcome (for consumption) makes the difference. As for performers, maybe we lost our perspective that consumption of music and other media means anything. I suspect that we created the opportunity to be obsolete as "performers" when we became products and and consumers ourselves?

    Who cooperated with the impulse to CONSUME the whole world. I think it is we who felt we'd never be able to create anything worthwhile so what is left? Many people WANT stuff and feel unable to DIY well enough. I too have often felt daunted by feeling I'd never be "good enough" so why try. I have absorbed the fallacy that the outcome is the point and not the process.

    Is it too late for me to realize my own position in this experience and become a creator and not a consumer? That is the big question. Stop all consumption and the whole scheme is impossible to put over.
    Last edited by Delight; 31st January 2023 at 19:03.

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    thanks everyone

    Delight. songwriter Harry Chapin said," Its got to be the going, not the gettin there... thats good" Thanks for the reminder. I like the process of making things, art, music etc. So I will continue regardless of what the fake world presents

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)
    I like the process of making things, art, music etc. So I will continue regardless of what the fake world presents
    Spoken as a true artist/ performer. Art is at the core, art-work is an expression of that. If we do things for 'likes', first, who is than the artist?

    If the external commissions a piece with very specific parameters such as in a copy or the moving around of the copy parameters then art has left the building and all produced is more properly named machine-work.

    ..............................................................

    Was thinking about your cruise to Patagonia story and a quote and thought popped in.....

    Quote “You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” - attributed to Abraham Lincoln
    Apparently Lincoln did not factor technology into that axiom.

    If technology were personified, “how close to 100% can I get to fooling all the people all of the time?” You know…..foolproof. Technology will someday replace the trickster archetype in fable if it has not already.
    Knock Knock

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    United States Avalon Member RunningDeer's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by w1ndmill (here)
    I've never been any good at maths beyond the basics - just dont get it - and so I would be very tempted to get a maths chip.
    Linda, I’m guessing you made a funny about being microchipped to do math.

    Here’s one back…
    Grow more fingers.
    Or manifest them.

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    Australia Avalon Member Violet3's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by Delight (here)
    Are we artists or are we consumers? The process of making and not the "perfect" outcome (for consumption) makes the difference. As for performers, maybe we lost our perspective that consumption of music and other media means anything. I suspect that we created the opportunity to be obsolete as "performers" when we became products and and consumers ourselves?

    Who cooperated with the impulse to CONSUME the whole world. I think it is we who felt we'd never be able to create anything worthwhile so what is left? Many people WANT stuff and feel unable to DIY well enough. I too have often felt daunted by feeling I'd never be "good enough" so why try. I have absorbed the fallacy that the outcome is the point and not the process.

    Is it too late for me to realize my own position in this experience and become a creator and not a consumer? That is the big question. Stop all consumption and the whole scheme is impossible to put over.
    Agreed. Art is not just for the viewer/ listener but for the person inside, and as Bill Hicks was just quoted as saying, "for the ride". An example: I am no artist but I tried my hand at pastels a year or so ago, and one of the pieces I finished I really liked so I framed it. It was based on a photo of a beautiful place I hiked to in the Flinders Ranges of outback South Australia. So the picture is particular to a place and time for me, and the outcome is not great art but I remember the process of making it and the class teacher who helped me with some nice touches.

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    Avalon Member East Sun's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Doug, your question brings back memories of times long gone past.

    I had a friend way back in the 60ies who asked me in all sincerity, when our group of friends
    were drinking in our favorite bar on a Sat. night, WHAT WILL BECOME OF US?
    There was music, the place packed with people our age, but I had no answer except,
    I don't know. I had no clue if course.

    He married soon after and I went to another country, did the usual searching for years,
    eventually married.
    Now I know what became of me, but still don't know what will become of me tomorrow.
    Just like the rest of us. What will become of our country? our world? our humanity?
    Our civilization? Will we even survive?

    I think there is light at the end of the tunnel, but there's a lot more between us
    and the tunnel's end.

    I have a feeling that 2023 will be exceptional and full of surprises.

    Jim
    Last edited by East Sun; 31st January 2023 at 23:13.
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

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    United States Avalon Member thepainterdoug's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    East Sun

    yes these questions have been asked in every time frame and generation. but today things are quite unprecedented . we are always every day in peril. but I run the numbers on this economy, the layoffs, the businesses being shut down, the food supplies being compromised , the illegals , the lawlessness etc and a potential war being toyed with ? and no one seems to have a clue as to how to stop it.

    the numbers dont look good.

    blessings all
    d

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    Avalon Member O Donna's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Quote Posted by thepainterdoug (here)

    the numbers dont look good.

    blessings all
    d
    'the numbers', technology driven.

    Stock Market, what a Beast that one is.

    Scarcity is another driven by numbers. What if scarcity is a scare tactic? A mind control parameter not based on an absolute?

    "But it doesn't matter", I guess, because that which controls the 'numbers' says we are scarce on a resource, the people have to act on that information whether by a product not available for purchase or higher prices.

    This, of course, negates my original point but hey, "it doesn't matter".

    I suppose if I had proof that things are not always how they appear, I'd have a better argument. All I have is a sneaky suspicion. Certainly would not expect people to act on them as if true. Though I will share an opinion, which is from what I understand, partly what PA is built on.

    Value is often a creation phenomenon. Look no further then fiat currency or cryptocurrency. Don’t get me started on the metaverse.

    Ugh, think I need to go watch a sunrise or something. Good to have reminders of the beauty around us too….. more so than ever.



    Ce n'est pas un lever de soleil

    (Can't put it in a pipe and smoke it)
    Knock Knock

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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    Doug

    It grieves me to see innocent kids and adults being slowly poisoned in so many ways.
    I know that we have enemies that are very powerful BUT, with all we have learned and
    all the super-intelligent people in every facet of science and psychology
    (I'm not going to say government) and all those who are constantly telling us how to do
    everything under the sun, you would think that somewhere on our earth there are people
    (even in secret) who can defeat the EVIL that is rampant throughout the world.

    The evil is everywhere. There is nowhere that it is not.
    Even the best intentioned people don't seem to have answers.

    WEF Schwab, Sorus and their ilk are just free to tell us to our face what
    they intend to do that is pure evil and inhumane to the humans on Earth.

    We need some off Earth power to assist us, against the off/on Earth enemies
    that is destroying our planet and our lives.
    Question Everything, always speak truth... Make the best of today, for there may not be a tomorrow!!! But, that's OK because tomorrow never comes, so we have nothing to worry about!!!

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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    East Sun . agreed it seems to me cosmic, an other intelligence at hand. how can people be giving it all away. what world for our children will be there? what a weak society

    btw I use a saying, running the numbers, as basically evaluating things. not necessarily a financial or math issue.

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    Canada Avalon Member DeDukshyn's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    I listened to the samples, and meh ... horribly uninspired - although perhaps better than most of the AI generated music I have heard - almost all of which is dreadful.

    I think the thing that people don't realize is that AI isn't creative. This has become exposed in the AI art community where AI art pieces are showing up with artists signatures and company logo watermarks ... how do these get there?

    AI libraries are made up of thousands or millions of stolen art, music and text from the internet - and the "AI" draws from these libraries and creates a mishmash. Without human art as input AI art cannot exist - there is nothing original about it.

    Getty images is now suing Stability AI for illegally using their images in their AI libraries. Massive protests at popular art sites, "Artstation" and "DeviantArt" by members are trying to bring attention to the fact that their art is stolen by AI web crawlers that add their pieces to their libraries without permission - to be used without permission.

    Both sites now allow you to set a flag on your submissions that tell the AI crawlers if the piece can be used or not, but such measures have not been made for music, programming code, video, or literary pieces as far as I know. With Artstation, the flag is set to "steal my art" by default and you have to manually change it. Of course it doesn't mean that the AI crawler won't steal your art, but at least its a start.

    "AI created" things are not what most people think it is - it is literally created from stolen existing works. Without humans continuously creating new art, literature, movies, music, etc. AI creations will devolve into a repetition of uninspired, unoriginal, "creations" always based on what has been before - based on the works of humans that was most likely obtained without the creators permission.
    When you are one step ahead of the crowd, you are a genius.
    Two steps ahead, and you are deemed a crackpot.

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    Avalon Member SilentFeathers's Avatar
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    Default Re: What will become of us?

    It's a huge undertaking for a few psychopaths gaslighting billions of people into accepting a new false reality as the new normal. Yet they seem to be having some success at a rather alarming and escalating rate.

    I've heard many call Earth a prison planet, personally, I see Earth becoming more and more of an insane asylum.

    Many now are calling it "The Great Reset". Hopefully it won't be as severe as the likes of the reset that happened about 12,000 years ago. Or perhaps that's exactly what humanity needs, an asteroid to smack us good to wake us up! Sadly though, there are a group of people on this planet that if they survived would try to take control of that event to and try to profit from it!

    "What will become of us?"....When so many lack logic, reason, and common sense, and chaos lurking around every turn, this question runs through my mind quite often. I try to stay optomistic, but as ridiculous and dangerous things are escalating at an unbelievable rate, I unfortunately sense something quite catastrophic coming soon. Not sure what it may be, but, it does seem we are beyond the point of no return. Hopefully many of us will come out on the other side of all this weirdness ok....

    "What have we become?"
    SilentFeathers

    "The journey is now, it begins with today. There are many paths, choose wisely."

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