Interview transcript - Part 3
This page is a reformatted version of the original Project Camelot publication.
The Ultimatum: Benjamin Fulford
Tokyo, Japan, February 2008
(continued from Part 1 and Part 2)
Start of interview
Bill Ryan: This message to the powers that be was presumably heard when it was published by Henry Makow and by your interviews on Rense last July. [Fulford nods yes] And those same people will be watching this - there’s no doubt about it whatsoever. And what indicators have you had that that message has been heard, action is being taken, changes are being made? What are the pros and cons of this in terms of measuring progress? Because a lot of people want to know the answer to that question.
Benjamin Fulford: Well, look in the papers. You see, for example, the reports in the New York Times from Davos. You see George Soros saying that the dollar will cease to be the key currency. You have stories in the New York Times, again, saying that the Pentagon has changed their basic doctrine to country-building. Right? You have Prime Minister Brown running around saying we gotta put India and Brazil and some African countries into the UN Security Council as permanent members. You know. And then you see the US market like in a kind of short-circuit. Right? Because something’s happening, you know?
Kerry Cassidy: Right, but you also see Japan, I mean, watching the news daily here-- and basically Japan is sort of on shaky ground as a result of the US dollar getting on shaky ground. How does that link up?
BF: OK. Now, this is a false story that’s been around, that without the American market everybody’s in trouble. But, you know, it’s like a customer who comes to your bar and eats and drinks and never pays, you know? Well, you’re not gonna listen. You just have to sell to somebody else who actually pays for it. You know?
KC: So you’re saying Japan is not really going on shaky ground. Well, what is the purpose of this disinformation?
BF: Well, here’s the tricky part. The Japanese want to maintain their alliance with the United States. OK? So, the idea is to remove these gangsters from the top of the American political structure who control everybody with money; reassure the Americans; maintain the alliance; and then reorient the Pentagon to ending poverty and exploring the universe. Give them more money than before. And the American economy-- you write off their debt and you give them new financing so they go and rebuild their bridges, rebuild their infrastructure, you know, build new schools-- all the stuff that’s been neglected because they’ve been spending so much money on trying to maintain the ability to physically, you know, intimidate everyone else.
KC: Now you mentioned, I believe, on the update to Rense that you were being offered the job of Finance Minister if the Democrats, I believe you said, came into power here in Japan.
BF: No, I did not say I’ve been offered the job. I was offered the job before on the condition that I participate in genocide. What’s happening now is that the opinion polls show that the Democratic party is gonna win. And if they do, there will be some big changes in Japan. They’ll maintain the alliance, but not as a colonial state, but as an equal partner. And, you know, I know their leaders. I’ve met them. I’ve been working with them for a long time. And if they give me the job, then and only then would I be able to do this. OK? So, it’s up to them.
But they know my plan, which is to use the Pentagon to end poverty. And it’s a good plan and it would strengthen the US alliance and it would be the only way to counter-balance the Chinese. I mean, what are the Chinese doing with their money? They’re going to Africa and they’re building roads and hospitals and schools. They’re doing it in South America and they’re doing it in Bangladesh. They’re doing it all over the world.
Bill: And they’re creating markets for themselves.
BF: They’re creating markets, they’re making people rich, and they’re making friends. And they’re not trying to say: You must be like us. You know?
There are many different ways to run an economy. You cannot just force everybody to follow YOUR rules. For example, if you have a “Big Man” in Africa and all the money goes to him and he decides how it’s distributed, well, that’s their system. You give it to the big man but you just make sure that he doesn’t send it all to Switzerland, that it actually goes to his people.
In the same way, for example, the Japanese have this system called dango. Some people call it bid-rigging, right? But it works both ways. It’s a system where the construction companies get together and decide who’s gonna get the job and the bureaucrats set the price. Now, if it’s abused, it can force the price up too much. But when things go down, it means they can share the pain too. So it’s not necessarily an evil system. It’s how it’s managed.
The corollary is that there are many ways to run finance. It’s a question of obligations. I mean, potlatch was a system of finance. You know about potlatch?
BF: The Indians on the west coast of Canada would have a party and at the party the guy would give away everything he owned during the party. And then, you know, he would start going to other parties and start building up stuff. And the guy who gave away the most had the highest status. Right? So it was a way of maintaining financial equality.
KC: Spreading the wealth.
BF: And the people who spread the most were the most respected. It was a good system but it was ruined when foreign traders came in and started parasiting off of it and the Canadian government banned it. But the point is that all these societies have had financial systems for millennia, you know. It’s a way of distributing obligations among people. That’s what it is.
Why do civilizations have to clash? I mean, why can’t they be friends? [laughs] You know? That’s the point. The Chinese don’t want to have some ultimate war and they don’t want to conquer you. They just want to be your friend. That’s it. It’s that simple. Make friends. Make love, not war. [laughs again] I mean, that’s what it’s all about.
KC: OK. This all sounds incredibly wise and very level-headed. Bill, let’s have your question, because I thought it was a good one.
Bill: Presumably, six months after you first delivered this message as a sort of representative, as a messenger, to the powers that be in the western world on behalf of the Asian secret societies, they, with their ears to all kinds of intelligence in their own networks, must themselves have given you some feedback about whether they felt that this message had been effectively delivered or not. What have you heard from them since then?
BF: I’ll be honest with you. I’m going next week to talk to them. And so, it would be better to ask me later. But the only thing that they disapproved of was when I made those threats to kill people. They say: You know, that’s very rude and such things are best left unsaid. But what they’ve told me is that, you know, the old “Do what I say”-- as long as I stick within that original promise, which is the war against poverty, and to save the environment from destruction, and to put an end to war. Those are the goals: Permanent global peace, no more poverty, no more environmental destruction. That’s the bottom line, and if I stick to that, they’ll support me.
KC: When you met with Rockefeller and you interviewed him, and we watched the interview-- I mean, it felt to me as though he basically sort of danced and side-stepped and never really directly dealt with anything that you asked him. Now, I don’t know what your take was on that interview.
BF: Well, look. I knew, you see, first of all, that if I had done a hostile interview I would have got nowhere. And so I stuck to the way corporate journalists are trained to talk to people like this, you know, within his parameters.
BF: But the point there was just to show people that I coulda had him killed if I wanted to, that I knew where he was. I could have just called up the guys and say, you know: Bring him to a warehouse somewhere. The point is that all those people in the western elite now know that if they travel anywhere in Asia—or in fact, anywhere in the World—if I want to, I can get to them. But that’s not what I’m about. I’m not a gangster. I’m not a murderer. I’m not a criminal. So I don’t want to have to do that. I really don’t.
KC: But do you think that Rockefeller… I mean, did he give you any indication, even after the interview when the cameras were off, that things were changing or that things were gonna change?
BF: Well, I mean, it’s really not in his hands anymore.
BF: Because, like I say, the dollar can be destroyed. And oil is an obsolete energy technology. You can burn water. You separate out the hydrogen and burn it. And this whole nonsense about how you have to put in more energy than you get out is just not true. There are many ways to get at least four or five times more energy out of it than you put in. A senior Japanese politician told me they had the technology for more than 30 years. There is a Nikola Tesla technology that’s 100 years old.
In other words, they’ve been holding back human technological progress in order to maintain control over their oil monopoly and, you know, take the peoples’ money. OK?
BF: But now that’s come to an end. Oil does not have to be used any more. And the Chinese are now developing these new technologies. It’s just started, but you’ll see it.
KC: OK. Now we happen to be party to some very great information that appears to be very solid, which says the Americans have had this free energy for 40 years. All right? That they ARE terra-forming Mars, that they DO have bases on the Moon, that China (they’re in another Moon race as we speak right now), but supposedly China is basically trying to follow them, in their footsteps. But, in other words, the stakes are much higher than oil. Oil’s the cover story at this point.
BF: Well, if that is true, then it’s really a question of trust. It’s really a question of realizing that it’s all one planet and we’re all one people. And, you know, maybe they’re doing that, but I still see ecosystems being destroyed on this planet. And I see a very, very incompetently-managed Planet Earth.
There are so many things they could do: Why don’t they terra-form EARTH? For example, they could put huge pumps in the dead parts of the tropical oceans and pump the nutrients up to the surface, and you’d increase the amount of fish by 10 times, for example. If you end poverty, then people aren’t going to have to, you know, burn down forests. You’ll end environmental destruction, and you’ll have so many more intelligent humans helping the planet. In other words, they should fix the problems on Planet Earth. It’s easy to do. It’s just a question of cooperating with all the other peoples.
Now, I would suggest… My idea for a new kind of replacement for the UN Security Council is to have the Earth divided into 7 regions—North and South America, Europe, China, Japan and Southeast Asia, the Muslim countries, India, and Africa. Seven zones would each have one vote on the Security Council. And a veto would only cover their particular zone, so the Chinese can only veto decisions about China. And that would lead to much more effective decision-making. And that would make it possible to deal with things like over-fishing, poverty, environmental destruction, all these problems. It’s a question of sharing the planet, and the rulership of the planet, with the people of the planet.
So, if they really are terra-forming Mars and they really do have this technology, then why are we still paying for gasoline at the gas station? You know, that’s nonsense. That’s very, very criminally wasteful of human resources and human potential.
KC: So, with all due respect, I would suggest that what you need to also do is approach this whole “band of secrecy” that has covered the globe, majorly at the Americans’ request or demand, that covers things like free energy, like a secret space program, like, you know, the fact that there may be other races from other planets visiting our globe. And this is something that you don’t deal with.
BF: I don’t deal with it on purpose. Because, if there are other races, then they’re not appearing on our TV sets and they’re not getting involved in our politics in a way we can see, so this is sort of… They’re leaving us on our own. So therefore I think we have to come up with a human solution to the planet’s problems. And if, then, we get contact with other beings, then great. I think they’re waiting for us to come up with a coherent and peaceful way of running the planet before they’re willing to welcome us into, you know, a galactic society. Because they don’t want to have a warlike society controlled by a criminal clan heading out into the universe with huge weapons and stuff. Right? So if I were them, I’d quarantine us until we came up with a peaceful model for running our own planet.
KC: OK. So, I’d hire you in a second. I’d let you be Finance Minister because you have such a great in-depth grasp of what is going on economically on the planet and you also have a great vision for the future. And both those things are really politically amazing, something you never come across, especially in US politics, not to mention most politics in other countries.
So, do you really think that you’re going to be successful? I mean, do you have a group that’s supporting you? I understand that you have the secret society. But beyond that, have you set up, I don’t know--a network--prior to this?
BF: Yes. I mean, there’s a lot of Japanese politicians who support me. A lot of intellectuals support me. The books I write are read by the most intelligent people in Japan. They’re not, you know, reading for entertainment. So it’s amazing, given the subject matter, how many people do read them. But, you know, they say the pen is mightier than the sword. And I think I’ve convinced a “critical mass.” And the last obstacle was this fear, but now the gangsters have also decided that they like what I’m saying. And of course I’ve told them I’ll make sure they prosper more under the new regime than the old, because this is about win-win. Right?
KC: What about the American government? Has any politician from America tried to contact you?
BF: I’ve been contacted by intelligence people. You know, like the CIA, Pentagon, and Freemason people.
KC: OK. And have they continued to threaten you or are they trying to work with you?
BF: They’re trying to work with me. I don’t think they see me as a threat anymore. I think they understand that’s not what I’m about. I’m here for a win-win solution, you know?
KC: Are you at liberty to tell us anybody in particular that you’ve dealt with?
BF: Ah… Not at this point. But it’s clear that the problems have been the oil monopoly and the military people, not the Pentagon, but the military billionaires, the contractors and such. In other words, we need to get rid of the oil monopoly.
KC: The Carlyle group?
BF: Yeah. It really boils down to that. Just quit keeping us addicted to oil.
Bill: I understand what you were saying about the ethics of the secret societies. In other words, they may well intend to take someone out if they misbehave, but it’s very impolite to be so brazen about voicing it publicly. These things are presumably meant to be implied and understood without having to be so brazen and uncouth as to actually threaten somebody. This is my take on what you’re saying there.
But just to fast-forward to a worst-case scenario, let’s say that there are some factions in the Pentagon or behind the scenes that have an interest for whatever reason, sane or insane, in starting some kind of attack on Iran that could lead to nuclear escalation. Would you believe that in that situation, then the societies would actually start to take people out because this would be unacceptable?
BF: Yeah. Well, I mean, that would be, certainly, a line to be crossed that shouldn’t be crossed. You know, if they’re gonna try to kill billions of people, then we’re gonna have to kill 10,000 people in order to prevent that, if necessary. And the arrangements have been made. It’s just a matter of me sending an email or making a phone call or a matter of someone coming and killing me.
KC: And what about war? I mean, are you approaching, like, are we gonna have war with Iran? Are you working with these groups? Are you trying to change that paradigm?
BF: The idea is to replace war with a different kind of economic competition. So it would be like a peaceful war, sort of like a global Olympics. For example, the Americans would compete with the Chinese to develop Africa. Or, in other words, come up with some sort of way where we’d periodically give everybody on the planet a goal that they all work towards. Because one thing war has done in the past, it has motivated people to go to extraordinary efforts. Unfortunately it’s been efforts to kill and conquer.
But the idea of mobilizing people can be used for peaceful purposes. A good example was Hitler starting up the Autobahn. He said: OK, you’re all unemployed, you’ve got no work. All right, we’re gonna build the best highway system the world has ever seen. And they did. So never mind all the genocide and stuff-- that happened later-- but just the idea that you mobilize everybody.
So, for example, I’m asking for a 3-year campaign, at the end of which, all environmental destruction will be stopped; every kid on the planet [voices becomes choked with emotion] will have a full mind [wipes away tears] and a full stomach; and human potential will be released. [wipes away tears] And the economic benefits would be just totally mind-boggling.
At the same time, instead of having something like DARPA, you know, high-tech research for the purposes of killing, make it high-tech research for the purposes of promoting life. For example, immortality is around the corner. If you could live another 30, 40 years, you could probably live to be a thousand or more if you wanted. So they should put as much resources as possible into that. And we can make ourselves more intelligent with drugs, with gene therapies, to raise our intelligence. We could have a kind of a paradigm shift, I mean a fractal shift, really-- like the Cambrian explosion-- within a matter of maybe dozens or hundreds of years at most. If we want.
If everybody raises their IQ to 200, 300, and they’ve got infinite free power and immortality, who knows what we’re gonna think up? It’ll set off a kind of, you know, exponential explosion of progress, which you can only begin to wonder and imagine what it’s gonna be like.
But it’s real. It’s not some kind of science fiction. It’s all there in the current technology. You can read it and see it.
KC: We have it within our grasp.
BF: Yes. And so we should really just go for it! I mean, try to save every soul you can. If we can make everybody immortal, we should. And then if there’s not enough room for them, we’ll have to go out into space.
KC: But in essence, it seems like this threat that you’re talking about the Yakuza and the secret societies have made to, in essence, the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, right?-- the ones that are at the very top-- that if things don’t change, they are basically going to be motivated to, sort of, eliminate them?
BF: Well, it’s a slave revolt they’re dealing with, basically. And it’s one they can’t stop this time. I mean, Kennedy basically lead an unsuccessful slave revolt.
BF: In other words, these people are being like dogs in the manger; they’re trying to keep all the good stuff for themselves.
And I think that we can learn about the future by looking at our evolutionary past. So when the billions and trillions of cells that make up our bodies agreed to become part of one body, there was some serious bargaining. So, you know, some cells got to be brain cells and some cells had to be asshole cells, right? But to compensate, for example, the assholes get lots of pleasure and they don’t have to work very hard and they’re treated with respect. You know, people even lick them!
And so the point is, the some way, somebody’s gotta collect garbage and clean toilets. And you’ve gotta give them shorter working hours, better pay, and compensation for that work. In other words, by creating a really good balance for all people, you’ll maximize human progress. That’s the bottom line. It’s common sense. You don’t suppress people. You lift them up and release their potential.
KC: Have you been contacted by MJ-12 or what we know [as] the Committee of the Majority, that you know of?
BF: The contacts I get are, like, phone calls from different people.
KC: Do you know who Dan Burisch is?
KC: OK. Well he is part of that group, or has been in the past, and he actually sends his regards.
KC: They’re quite aware of you. And what I was just wondering is if you have been consciously, you know, dealing with them on any level. In other words, I know you’re getting emails from members of intel. But this is the group that basically comprises what we know of as the “secret government” of the United States and possibly the world. OK?
BF: Well, I mean, all the contacts I’ve had have been indirect. I don’t think they took me seriously until they realized I could get Mr. Rockefeller or anybody else if I wanted to.
But the other thing is that I’ve been going through… You know, when I was at Forbes, the job I was doing was so cushy and lax that I only needed to work about one day a week and use 20% of my potential. Now I’ve been in way over my head for a very long time. I’ve been forced to expand my potential, you know, to just kind of deal with what I’ve taken on.
And so, you know, my understanding of the situation has evolved and the plans have evolved, but the idea is to bring this from the theoretical to the real. And the goal is to have a big change in August ‘08. Just make that a kind of a date. Just have a huge party.
KC: The date of the Olympics.
BF: Yeah. We’ll just have a huge party worldwide. And then promise no more war, and then just agree that we’ll all work to save the planet. All you have to do is focus on what you agree upon. And you’ll find that people agree upon far more than they disagree about.
I remember when I first came to Japan. I was working in the English Conversation Coffee Lounge and this lady is saying: How are the Japanese different from westerners? I’m saying: Well, they’re different this way and they’re different that way. And then she says: Well, how are they the same? And it’s like I got hit by a bolt of lightning [makes zapping sound]. My god, they’re 99.99% the same!
People everywhere-- if you forget about the semantics and the “cultural froth”-- they want the same things. They agree, fundamentally. Nobody likes poverty. Nobody likes environmental destruction. Nobody likes war. So we agree on that. Then everything else can be discussed over a cup of tea! No need to fight about it.
KC: OK. I know we’ve kept you for a long time, but just one or two of our last questions.
BF: Hm mm
KC: You’re dealing with secret societies, OK. But do these secret societies let you in on their “secrets” yet?
BF: Well, some, yes. Well, it depends “what.” But, do I really need to know? I think one of the secrets I’ve found out is the Yakuza all work for the emperor, for example. They’re like the FBI and the CIA in this country.
KC: OK. So how is the emperor taking your message?
BF: Well, I think he’s the guy who has been nudging me along on this path, you know, secretly.
BF: I wrote an essay a long time ago, saying if I was General McArthur, what would I do? And I said, well, I’d, you know, invite all the best experts in the world and try to make Japan the best country in every single area possible. With the Meiji reforms they could only afford second or third-level people but now they could hire every Nobel Prize winner who ever lived who’s still alive. I mean, they’ve got $5 trillion dollars. And just make Japan an example for the world.
KC: Um hm
BF: And that still could be done, you know? I think, for example, cities should be covered with green. Trees and animals and plants should be able to freely roam cities. There’s gotta be a way to make nature and cities compatible, for example. That’s something they could do. There’s a lot of things. There’s so much potential if people are once again allowed to dream about the future and then try to make those dreams come true. It’s really a question, right now, of phenomenal waste.
And the Japanese know more than anybody—they have one resource. That’s human brains. Most of the human brains on this planet are being wasted. It’s the most valuable resource we have and it’s being wasted and deliberately dumbed down and destroyed.
KC: What about the undersea cables that were recently cut, that basically took the internet…? You heard of that?
BF: Yeah yeah yeah.
KC: OK. Well, many are saying that it’s too convenient that undersea cables would be cut in two different areas exactly simultaneously, taking out communications.
BF: I got a phone call from the number-three man in the Inagawa crime gang saying that they were going to hit Kawasaki with HAARP sometime between February 12th and 15th. And I think this is all kind of immature posturing and hollow threats that are really, kind of, not dignified. And, you know, there’s gonna be no losers, right? So there should be no reason to try to do this.
I mean, these people have been having this plan, right? To eliminate, you know, 4 billion people, and then give the rest of the planet a high level standard of living in harmony with nature. But the reason they’ve had this plan is because they couldn’t understand other cultures. And they couldn’t impose their own culture on these other cultures. And that’s the essence of the problem. If they realized that they have so much to learn, and there’s so much human potential that’s gonna be wasted, they’ll realize it was a very stupid plan in the first place.
And the idea of wanting to enslave humanity is not the way it’s supposed to be. They’re supposed to lead humanity. And that means behaving the way that people want them to lead. And that should be easy for them.
So, you know, for example, if they want to have all of Israel, then the easiest thing would be to pay a million dollars or so to each Palestinian, you know, and then they can build their temple. And, you know, if they finance research on immortality and super powers I think that would fulfill their biblical prophesies, these people who are obsessed with creating a sort of Armageddon, right?
I would still invite them. I’d say: Look, you know, you’ve been preparing for this for so long and you’ve spent so much money on this. Give us a show, you know? Make it a virtual Armageddon. You know, put up screens. Turn on your hologram machines, whatever it is, you know. And you can make it come true without killing billions of people. You’re not going to be able to kill billions of people anyway. Because even in the Pentagon, I think they understand now that these people have been obsessed with, you know, an ancient book and they’ve lost touch with reality. You know?
KC [laughs]: That’s a great way to put it—very simple, very direct, and very true.
BF: And so look at the reality. You’ve got a situation where wonderful things are gonna happen, more wonderful than they can imagine.
KC: OK. One last question: Magic, OK? You obviously have been trained to some degree in the occult and what goes on behind the scenes. So you’ve got, you know, “entities” that represent good and evil, for lack of a better way of associating it, and you know that you’re dealing with these forces when you’re approaching the world in this way. Have you been dealing with this, and do you feel that you sort of have the good on your side at this point?
BF: You know, I don’t usually like to talk about this stuff because people will start thinking I’m a weirdo. But if you ask my girlfriends, for example, they tell me that at night I’m not there. The only thing that’s left is my body, I mean the animal functions. I leave my body every night.
KC: Uh hm. We all do, in my opinion.
KC: But what are you saying with that?
BF: I’ve had some very, very unusual experiences. Like I had one experience in particular where it felt like my entire nervous system was almost overloaded with information. And it was an image of the planet as an egg about to hatch, you know, really burst out into billions and trillions of species, you know. It’s like the Cambrian explosion. It really was so intense that there’s no really good way of describing it. But it’s not something that you could have through a vivid dream or hallucination, because it was like almost total overload, like a giant zap of energy, way beyond anything I’d normally possess.
KC: Um hmm
BF: There’s a lot of very mysterious stuff been going on. But I try not to mix that in because I’m trying to stay at the lowest common denominator of everybody’s understanding. Because, you start talking about stuff like this, all sorts of people are going to get turned off and say: Oh, he’s a weirdo. He’s a flake.
BF: So, you know, I try to stick within the matrix of everybody’s paradigms and frameworks in order to make sure they understand the information.
KC: But you know you’re working outside the matrix at this point, or you have the potential to.
BF: Oh yeah, definitely. You know, actually I have a problem. I spend so much time outside the matrix, I have trouble earning a living these days, if I have to get back in and do stuff to pay my bills, you know.
KC: Right. So the bottom line is that you don’t have a job, actually—yet-- as Finance Minister, should that come about. So in essence here you are in this incredibly interesting position, but it doesn’t pay the bills.
BF: Well, yeah. I mean, I have jobs. I do pay my bills, you know, but I’m now working towards this. We’re close. I’m saying the target date is August 8, . I’ll go to Taiwan. I’ll talk to the society. You know, lots of big things are gonna be happening, you know, but I’m just hoping that… The best thing is that everyone agree that we need a fresh start, just to clean the slate, have a big party, and then just change the way we run the planet.
I mean, the post-war system has become dysfunctional and the idea that a tiny western minority can rule the planet is obsolete. It’s not working. And that’s what we have to get these people to understand. And it’s not going to be a threat to them. It’s going to be a huge benefit to them. It’s going to be something they will be wishing they had done years ago, like: Why didn’t we think of that? Why didn’t we do this sooner?
KC: OK. Do you have family members behind you?
BF: Yeah. I have a lot of people behind me. My family in Canada - I don’t have much contact with them, so they think probably I’ve gone off the deep end, you know. [Kerry laughs] But senior politicians in Japan and the heads of the Yakuzas and stuff, they know where I’m coming from.
KC: Thank you.
Bill: Is there a final message that you’d like give anyone who happens to be watching this video, to see what you’re gonna say next?
BF: It’s just gonna be… Wonderful, wonderful things are going to happen. That’s the idea. Just absolute magic. I mean, everybody’s dreams will come true. That’s the goal.
(continued from Part 1 and Part 2)