This page is a reformatted version of the original Project Camelot publication.
Dan Sherman: Way Above Black
A video interview with Dan Sherman
Portland, Oregon, June 2007
Start of interview
Kerry Cassidy: I'm Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot, and we're here introducing Dan Sherman. He's a very, very, fascinating guy, and we are very interested and excited to be able to interview him here today.
He's a little bit hard to catch - he's not been doing interviews lately, and I think he keeps a very low profile. I don't know if that's intentional or if that's just the way the cards fall.
Dan, maybe you could give us a short overview of just who you are, and what an amazing story you have to tell.
Dan Sherman: Sure. I went into the military, just like any 18 year-old, right out of high school. I was in a certain job - a security police job, and at some point I was kind of led to another job, which was electronic intelligence.
This job provided me access to a higher security classification, and so I got top-secret clearances and SCI clearances. That led me into a world where the... well, to back up, the military kind of had a plan for me, as it was revealed later on, but at this point I didn't know that was going on.
But evidently, it was after I had gone into this other electronic intelligence field that I went to a school to get trained for it. I was called into an office, the Captain's office; he was in charge of the school, I believe it was. I went into his office, and he revealed this amazing story to me.
Evidently I - at birth, or actually in the womb - I was genetically managed to have a particular ability, and this ability was what he called 'intuitive communications'. How this happened was - and this is where a lot of people rolls their eyes, and I rolled my eyes at the time - and I was like, “I can't believe this is happening to me.”
But he said that my mother was abducted when she was pregnant with me. The fetus - which was me - was genetically managed. He said everybody had this particular ability that I was genetically managed for, but mine was just heightened to an nth degree.
I was at the school to not only learn a certain particular procedure for my job, my regular job, electronic intelligence, but I was also there to go to another school, which was to uncover this ability that I have. I had the ability, but it was like I wasn't able to control it or to know it was there until it was uncovered to me so I could practise at it, so to speak.
So he told me where to meet the van and told me all the logistics of how it would operate and I started going to a school that would allow me to uncover this ability and to practice it. That was at nighttime - in the daytime, I was going to my regular schooling for the job that I was doing - electronic intelligence.
K: How old were you at this time?
D: I have to have a caveat here, because one of the things that I can't reveal in the book has to do with locations, because this is how they hide this type of thing.
You are assigned to a 'black' assignment, which is legitimately classified for a reason - because of national security, etc. They do that so they can keep the gray related projects attached to black related projects, so that they would have a reason to have heightened security at that location.
Therefore, they assign people who are a part of gray projects to these black projects. There's a reason to get them to that location, and there's a reason for them to be there, and it's all under the guise of the black project and the funding of the black project, etc.
So my complication in writing the book is that I don't want to reveal national security issues, because that's legitimate. I mean I don't want our country being crippled by my big mouth.
But by the same token, I do want to reveal the gray projects, which have nothing to do with national security and have everything to do with power to the government.
So I have to be very careful as to what I release, as far as the gray project goes; how it relates to the black projects that I worked on. One of those is the location that I was at, at a particular time and at a particular age. I don't want to correlate these things.
K: I see. Okay.
D: I'm not trying to evade the issue. I mean it is kind of a simple question: “What year were you doing that?”
Anybody can look at my military record and see when I went to school at the NSA. I mean they can see the trail, so to speak. I can list all the bases I've been to; but when I start talking about black projects related to the gray projects, I can't say that in the same sentence as the base that I have been at.
K: Okay. Why don't we list the bases you were at, and get those out of the way? That way you won't have to refer to any specific base.
D: Sure. I've been at Osan Air Base in Korea; I've been there actually twice.
I've been to Offutt Air force Base in Nebraska, which is the SAC Headquarters. I'm not sure if it's called SAC anymore, Strategic Air Command.
San Vito Dei Normanni - actually, it's called 'San Vito' - in Italy, in the southern tip of Italy, and I've been to Buckley International Guard Base, I was stationed there in Denver, Colorado.
K: And have you mentioned Germany yet?
D: No, I haven't been stationed in Germany.
K: You haven't.
D: No. I've done temporary duty there. I've gone to school there and I was deployed there, but never have been stationed in Germany.
K: I see.
D: I was stationed in Holland though, and thank you for bringing me to the European theatre. I was stationed in Holland for a couple of years. It was my absolute favorite base; I loved it.
K: Are we allowed to ask how many years you spent in the military?
D: Yeah. I was there for twelve years. I went in 1982 when I was eighteen, and I got out in 1995. I spent twelve years there.
K: Tell me how you want me to put this... as an alien communicator, an ET communicator?
D: Well, they called it 'intuitive communication'.
K: Are you an empath as well?
D: No. I don't think I am in the strict term; however, I can really, really sense people's emotions, probably more than your average person - but I wouldn't go so far as to say that I'm an empath because it's not like overbearing or overpowering. I'm just really sensitive to people's moods and emotions.
But, back to this ability... this is an ability that it is really, really concrete. I mean, it's like we are talking right now; you say something, and it conveys a message and it is a pretty solid message. If I need to clarify that message or ask you to clarify it, I can ask you to clarify it, but it's a very, very concrete communication that we are doing when we're talking, and that's the same way with the intuitive communications.
There's no room for error. You know, you hear about these people who have the ability to, what's that called, the remote viewers, they get these senses and these images. It's not real concrete; it's not like looking at a picture. There's room for interpretation, but that's not like this. Intuitive communication is extremely concrete. The communications are there.
K: Okay, that's great to hear. So, are you saying that you hear a voice in your head?
D: No. No. It's not a voice.
K: Okay, do you see pictures?
D: It's not vocal and it's not image based as if when you send - here's a good analogy - when you send somebody a jpeg image through e-mail; the e-mail itself, the transmission of that information, is in bits through electronic means.
And then at the other end, the computer compiles that information, that electronic information, and then displays an image to you.
When we think of e-mail, we just think we got a picture. But actually, we got all kinds of electronic bits and the computer put it in the form of a picture for you.
So that's the same way with intuitive communications. The medium itself was not a visual medium, but when it got to me and my brain assessed that information, it put it into a picture for me so that I could understand or my mind could convey - because I had to convey all these communications through a computer to some place... I have no idea where it went.
But when I got a communication, I had to convey this communication. So a lot of it was rendered in pictures in my head; but sometimes it was just rendered in language, the English language, and sometimes it was rendered in smells even, sometimes. I could sense a smell.
K: You're getting a whole picture, not just snippets?
D: No, it's a full mode of communications. I can sense things around the communications, but it was a direct, it's kind of hard to put it in terms, but you know when we're sitting here in this interview room, when I'm talking to you and I'm looking at you, I know that there's a picture there and there's, you know, like a television here and there, so I understand that that stuff is there.
But our communication is what is taking up the focus of my attention, and that was the same way with the intuitive communications - I could sense emotions from my contact and I could sense a peripheral - it wasn't like here, 'cause there are a lot of things to sense here, but...
K: You went in to meet with this man, and he basically told you about your mother and what you were trained for. Is that right?
D: Yes. Well, what I was going to be training for. Yeah, he told me about my mother being abducted and he told me a little bit about the project. I don't think he knew a lot about the project, I think he was just doing his job too, which was to be my contact and my handler, so to speak.
K: And how did that make you feel when you found this out?
D: You know it's funny when you look back on it now, because I was such a different person then. Obviously, I was very young - and when you're young you look at things a lot differently than when you are older and experienced.
In retrospect, if I were to been have told that today, I wouldn't have been so naive as to just accept it; because today, I'm forty-some years old and you don't accept things at face value the way you do when you're younger and you have no inhibitions. You're like, “Yeah, okay, let's do this!”
There was some sort of skepticism, because I knew that in the military a lot of times you get joked on or 'punked', or whatever you want to call it... you know, initiations and stuff. I knew that I was coming to a school and there was a small worry there that it was a joke and someone was going to jump out of the closet and say, “Ha-ha, you believe this alien thing!” Of course, that didn't happen.
But, for the most part, it was the military; it was the military in me. I said, “Okay, well, this is a mission and I've got to accept this as just another reality in my life, and I've got to move on and do what I'm told.” But it was shocking.
K: It was shocking.
D: It was very shocking.
K: Okay, because I was just wondering, did you have experiences in your childhood that might have prepared you for that moment, such that you might have accepted it a little quicker, a little easier? You were almost created to do a certain mission. So it was within your programming, to use that term very loosely, to be prepared for that notion. Did you have any conscious memories of your own ET experiences?
D: I only did that in retrospect later on as I thought about it. Of course, it didn't occur to me at that particular moment when he told me.
Just to clarify also, my mother got pregnant in a very normal way so that the creation itself was there normally, but it was one of the questions I had. “Am I human? Am I 100% human?”
And he said, “Yes, you're definitely 100% human. It's just that your genetic make-up was tweaked a little bit to allow for this heightened ability.”
K: And do you have a Celtic background, like many people of that nature or... you know what I'm saying?
D: You mean for my genealogy?
D: We're from Europe - northern Europe - England and France, and I have a little bit of Cherokee in me, too.
K: I was going to ask you if you have some Indian. Okay, so there you go. Did you ever talk to your mother about this?
D: Yes. Yes, I have talked to my mother. I didn't talk to her until about four years after the book came out because I just felt that bringing it up to my mom really wouldn't add anything to the scenario and it just might, depending on her reaction, have been detrimental to our relationship.
So, I had to weight the pros and cons of actually talking to her about it. If she did have memories of something and she did accept and support my coming out with what I did come out with - my story - then it really doesn't add anything to the story because the story is the story. I mean my experience is the experience, and there is nothing that's going to take away from that, because it happened.
But her saying that something happened would have been nice and it would have been a little bit of an addendum to my experience. But if she didn't have any memories and she didn't accept it - because it is a hard thing to understand and to believe for a lot of people - I didn't want to risk our relationship deteriorating because of my experience.
It was a difficult decision, but I finally took her out one day and I told her that I had written a book and she was like, “What?”
Now my mother is not exactly a world traveler you know, she lives in her own little world and that's it. So I wasn't too concerned about her running across the book anywhere.
So I told her and she said she didn't have any memories of any abductions or anything but she has had some unique experiences. She actually saw a UFO one time. I remember it because she was screaming and hollering in the bedroom, and I came, and she saw it out the window, so I remember that.
She has had some unique experiences, but she fully accepts it; she says she knows the person I am, and that I'm not going to be saying stuff like that if it's not something that actually happened. So she's fine with it, but she doesn't have any memories, so there is no correlation there, so to speak.
K: Okay. So you were told that you were brought in and actually given sort of a deeper clearance in order to do this new program, right?
D: Well, the clearances were the same because at this particular base where I was going to school there was no cover, the black cover, so to speak. They always make you sign these papers saying you're not going to discuss this, that and the other thing.
As it applies to the gray projects I worked on, it's kind of a moot point because there is no paper trail, there's no proof that anybody could bring out of a facility that proves what you are doing with the gray projects.
K: So, this is purposeful on the part of the military obviously, if there is no paper trail. This is what they want.
D: Yeah, and that's how they hide it so well. Because when you work on - in the early eighties, I worked on the F117 Stealth thing in Dreamland, so to speak, in Nevada.
You know, you could slip in a camera and take a picture of something; it's feasible. So, there's actual proof that you can gather. Now you probably wouldn't want to, because of the trouble you'd get in, but there's something you could bring out, and prove what you're working on.
But with the gray projects, at least the level at which I worked, there was absolutely no level of proof that you could bring out of anywhere.
I mean, I could look and look and look, and there was no way I could bring any proof out of the facility - and that's how they designed it. They want to have the ability to deny it and not have any trump card that says, wait a minute, look at this - whatever proofs you might have.
K: So in terms of the nuts and bolts, I remember the description - you went into this - it sounded like a trailer. I don't know if it literally was a trailer, but it was a place that was compartmentalized in such a way that you were in half of it, and there was another person, at a monitor, in the other half, and you basically weren't allowed to talk to anybody. Could you describe that scenario?
D: Sure. That was at a functioning base, that wasn't at the training facility. I was doing my actual real job, electronic intelligence. We had a C-van; it was called a C-van, kind of like a trailer, but no wheels.
You go into it, and we had two stations in this van. I worked one station and my partner worked the other station. We couldn't be in the trailer apart from one another; we both had to be in the trailer at the same time, because of the... well, we just had to be in the trailer at the same time. But he had no clue as to what I was doing with the gray project.
K: So, he wasn't part of the gray project, to your knowledge?
D: No. Well, not to my knowledge, but I have a feeling that I was probably the only one there that was part of the gray project.
K: In a sense, you're a psychic.
D: Yeah... I guess you could call me a very, very specialized psychic. [laughs]
K: Okay. Do you have the same abilities - that you had with the gray aliens that you were communicating with - with humans?
D: Well, that's a question I get posed often, and I always have to think about it, because... I guess it's possible, if the other person had the same type of heightened ability, and who knows? If I had stayed in longer, perhaps it would have migrated to that level for the training, because at every point in my job that I was doing with the gray project, it was always training, that's all I did, was train.
What they told me was that I was training for a particular thing in the future that was going to happen, and I needed to be up to snuff, so to speak, and able to do it without any reservations and without any mistakes.
So, the communications that I was receiving constantly, week in, week out, and that I would convey through the computer when I was typing it in to the computer, was all just a test. Basically, I was just training, training, more training.
Now the initial training at the school was to uncover the abilities, but then when I went operational at other bases, two other bases that I did this at, that was training as well.
K: Was that on the job training at that point? I mean, you know, to put it in those terms. Because at that point, you were actually in communication with an alien, whereas in the initial training - maybe you can describe that - there was a flat line, which you actually were supposed to move around with your mind.
D: The technology obviously came from the ET species that we were in contact with. At the school, I wasn't communicating with an ET. It was kind of like a biofeedback machine, but on a totally different level, because I wasn't connected to the machine at all. It started out by having these boxes on a computer screen and had an oscilloscope straight line for each one of the boxes, and I was told to concentrate on a tone that was being played in my ear on the headphones, and the instructions were to immensely hum this tone.
That is a hard thing to do - to mentally hum. You're humming yet it is not vocal and it's in your mind, but they said that is what you have to concentrate on, to mentally hum.
So, I would mentally hum this particular tone they would be playing in my earphones, and then at some point I started to sense that the line I was looking at when I was doing this was connected in my mind somehow and that I could move it, but it took awhile.
It took several days for me to even... and that was just torture, you know, three or four hours of just sitting there mentally humming something for a couple of days without any sense that something was actually going to happen.
I'm thinking someone was going to jump out of a closet again and say, “I can't believe you have been mentally humming this tone for three days!”
But, anyway, I did it and as I write in the book, it's kind of like a sense of clicking. It wasn't an audible click, but it was like when you're up against this force and then all of a sudden the force gives way and you can move your hand against that force, and you can move your hand quicker because the force has been taken away.
That's kind of how it felt, as this resistance, and then the resistance gave away.
K: Did it grow, this ability? Once you clicked, was it just there, or did you feel that there was an advancement that you went through?
D: Oh yeah, definitely an advancement. And it was very, very odd because once my mind knew how to overcome that little bit of the resistance to the abilities... it was weird because my mind automatically knew what to do and so it grew upon itself without me overtly doing something.
Of course, I was mentally engaged in the exercises that they gave me, but I could sense that there was this exponential learning that was going on in my brain. It was just the oddest feeling and during this time I had these weird dreams. It was a very odd time mentally.
And then, of course, I was going to my regular school too, at which I had to keep my grades up; so it was mentally exhausting, the several weeks I was there. It was an incredible experience, from the mental standpoint.
K: So going through your regular training actually gave you a cover story, or gave you a reason to be wherever you were. It's like the layers of the onion. So, in a sense, if I recall, you'd go in to do a job and everyone around you would think you were doing that particular job, you were equipped to do that job but, in essence you were doing this other job.
D: Yeah, but I had to do that other job too and it was an important job.
K: So you were always doing two jobs?
D: Yeah, at the bases I was at, the two bases - the secret agent aspect of my life and then a regular Joe aspect of my life.
So, they gave me these elaborate instructions on how the contact would happen. When you say contact in this context, you could be talking about a lot of things [laughs] so let's get the right terminology down.
D: So, that was my human contact within the gray project.
K: So you go to this base, and you sit at the computer and what happens is that you are communicating or open to communicate mentally with an ET? We're not sure whether the ET is... did you actually know if the ET was on earth at the time?
K: Or it could be anywhere?
D: I never knew of any location.
K: Okay. So, the being is almost kind of dictating to you; would that be correct?
D: Yeah, in our terms, yeah.
K: They just knew that they had a communication channel through you to get to the military, so to speak?
D: Yeah. I'm convinced that there was a loop there somewhere because the whole point of me typing it into the computer so that somebody somewhere could read it, was so that they could verify the information for accuracy, because that is essentially what I was doing, just honing in my skills to make sure that I was accurately conveying the messages that were being relayed to me.
K: But wasn't it that you actually found out that those messages were (about) abductions that were happening?
D: It just so happens that some of that information seemed to me to be information about abductions; and that's the whole problem with this entire experience. A lot of things just don't make any sense. I mean, why would they be conveying that type of information to me?
So maybe at some sort of future event they were going to be using me to convey this type of information, abduction information, I have no idea.
But I started to receive information, like you said, that really correlated to me like it had something to do with abductions, because there were fields, so to speak, like filling out a form, there were fields.
Or there were these pieces of information that were a potentiality for recall, I remember that one; residual pain levels and latitudes and longitudes... so I mean maybe they weren't abduction scenarios or abduction information, but it really seemed to me that it was because of the different bits of information that were being communicated.
And that was - I guess we're getting ahead of ourselves, but that was towards the end where I was like, “This is just going way further than I ever wanted it to.”
And when I got the information about residual pain levels - that really, really, really hit me - like, “Are there people being harmed because of this?”
They had a different spectrum with the residual pain levels. They were forwarded all the way from low digits all the way up to really high digits, like 100 all the way down to 2 and 3 and so I was thinking, well, on one end of that spectrum somebody is getting hurt. Maybe on the other one they aren't getting hurt but if there is a residual pain level at 2 and there is a residual pain level at 100, somebody, one of those, is on the bad end.
K: So this sounded like it had to be something that was happening on the planet, so that the military could check whether or not you were actually being accurate.
K: If it was something off planet they wouldn't necessarily, theoretically anyway, be able to check it. So it would have to be on planet.
D: Well, not necessarily because if they have a loop back to the ETs that I was contacting with, and the ETs told them what the correct information was then that would complete the loop regardless of where they were at.
K: Okay, meaning there had to be another communicator in the loop. Because I'm assuming on some level they wouldn't need you if they could communicate directly the way I am communicating with you.
D: Exactly. I don't think that was the only way to communicate with them.
This is what was told to me in the meeting that I had, the first meeting - the whole purpose of this project, Project Preserve Destiny, was to train these cognitive individuals that would be able to communicate intuitively; because at some certain event in the future, that was going to be the only way that we can communicate; because electromagnetic communications were going to be disrupted on a world-wide scale.
The only way that the world leaders and military and all these people who are in charge of the world, so to speak, all these different countries, different levels of government - the only way that they would be able to communicate is through this network of intuitive communicators.
K: And again, we're going to jump ahead a little bit here simply because we can't sit here and read your book from start to finish, which I would encourage everyone to do. It's remarkable in that you don't elaborate or embellish or go off track. You really just tell the story in a very nuts and bolts fashion.
D: Well, I tell people if I was to make up a story, it would be a lot more elaborate than this, but I wanted to stick to what happened to me and let everybody else conjecture upon that; because if I start conjecturing, then I think it sullies my credibility, so to speak.
K: You mean, as a witness?
D: Yes, I need to stick to the facts.
K: You developed a relationship, not necessarily with the first ET that you were communicating with but with the second one. Is that right?
D: Well, when you say relationship, that's kind of a loose term! [laughs]
We didn't have fireside chats but, what you're referring to is - at some point, there was a different level of communications that I stumbled upon, and that's one of the most difficult things I had to explain in the book, because it is really hard to describe the nuts and bolts of the communication itself - let alone another level of the communication.
So, suffice it to say that at some point I discovered this other level. I got the sense that after his reaction - my ET contact - after his reaction, I got the sense that that wasn't a monitored level of communications. I guess it's a moot point; it doesn't really matter if it was monitored. I felt more comfortable talking out of line, so to speak, or communicating other than the official communications that we were conveying.
It was interesting how these communications happened, because they happened instantaneously. However, again, my conversion of that conversation had to be converted to real time; which means, in the human world, we have to start doing something and then we end doing something, and in between there is a timeframe.
So I would get the communication and then I would start typing it and he would just hang on the line, so to speak, until I got done so that if I needed any clarification on something, then I could ask for clarification.
You know it's funny in retrospect, because at the time that this was happening I never knew in my wildest dreams that I would actually be talking about this to somebody. I always thought that it would be classified and I would never discuss it. So in retrospect nick-naming them Spock and Bones was probably not the best thing for my credibility because it looks like I'm embellishing to make it look funny.
K: Well, that's very poetic. Let's put it that way.
D: Thank you for clarifying that - but the first one was named Spock because of the logical nature in which the communications happened. Their emotions were very much based in logic although they had other emotions too, it was much more logical than our conversations, so I nicknamed him Spock in my own mind, that's what I referred to him as.
And then on the second contact at the second base it was a different ET contact, and so I just went along with the 'Star Trek' theme and named him Bones, but there was no reason to name him that.
K: Could you see these beings while you were communicating with them in your mind?
D: No. I believe at one point I tried to convey my desire to see or to get a visual, but I never got a visual of anything, not of them. I got visual stimulus, you know, plenty of visual stimulus but nothing of them. That would have been... again, that's one of the things in the book that would have been nice to be able to have drawings and all kinds of nifty stuff, but...
K: Okay, so 'Bones', the second one, comes on the scene, and you're communicating with him in this normal sort of way that you have been used to doing, which is receiving communications. At what point in the length of exposure to this being did you suddenly reach that place? Can you describe that transition?
D: As I recall, I think it started with Spock, towards the end of our time together.
K: So even with Spock, you were getting to that?
D: Yeah, I think that's when it started. I can't quite say that for 100% sure, but I think it was at the end of our contact, at the time we were contacting one another. I think it was towards the end of that, but most of that communication was with Bones because I had discovered it already, and felt more comfortable by that time. At some point the contact said they were quite surprised that I would be able to do that, because that's not a level of communication typically, that intuitive communicators are capable of. I'm sure they have the ability that they find, so to speak.
K: What happened then? Can you tell us a little bit about your dialog with them? Were these communications happening outside of your work hours?
D: No. Never.
K: Absolutely never?
D: Well, I tried to, at one point but there was no... well, let me step back a little bit. I did start to receive once, one time in the dorm, and I told him that I wasn't at work and that I wasn't at my station and so he signed off. But I think it was just kind of a clerical error, a mistake or something. He didn't realize that I wasn't at work. Obviously, they have my schedule because they would start the communication when I was at work.
K: Okay - but in what you call the informal communication, you were not communicating this informal dialogue to your superiors, right?
K: You weren't typing it into the machine?
D: No. If it were a question that I posed to them, then I wouldn't convey any answers, so to speak; but conversely, I hardly ever got any answers. So it was kind of a moot point but...
K: Okay. Well, you had a relationship of sorts with Bones, in what you were able to ask him questions and he would respond from time to time.
K: And you felt that it was something of an informal dialogue as you called it.
K: Can you recall various dialogue points that you had?
D: Sure. There were a lot of impressions that I was left with regarding our communications and regarding them. I've always been interested in time and time travel and stuff. So I did try to pick his brain so to speak, as far as how they travel and how they got here and how it relates to our time.
What I got was the impression that they do use time to travel, but not in the sense that we think - where they can go backwards and forward in time. I asked them about that. I said, “Can we go backward and forward in time?” The impression I got was you couldn't go backward and forward in time because time is relative.
So if you go back ten minutes from right now - well, right now is relative. It's a relative time point, not a solid time point. So you can't go back from something that's relative to everything else anyway.
So, what he says is, they could go around time. Now I really didn't understand that, but he said you go around using electromagnetic energy. You could go around time.
As I thought about it later... you read about Einstein's theory that light can bend when it's going by a planet. It will bend because of the gravitational pull of the planet. I think they use that gravitational energy, so to speak, to go around time.
I don't think they can go back a half-hour from right now and experience that time frame. But they do use time in some sort of way to travel because they do travel long distances, he said.
K: In other words he didn't, then... Dan Burisch talks about his relationship with a J-rod. I don't know if you're familiar with his...
K: ...his relationship with a J-rod called Chi'el'ah - and he says that Chi'el'ah was a time traveling ET who came back around the time of Roswell, and that they had a mission. Were you told by Bones that he came from the future?
D: Well, no. The impression I got regarding time was they couldn't do that. They couldn't go backward and forward in time. Now of course, this was an impression I got and it wasn't something whereby he gave me algorithms and gave me the proof - you know, that this can't happen and this can't happen - but as he told me, they use time to travel. They go around time, but they don't go through time. They don't go backwards and forward in time. They just use time to travel; which is, they go around it.
K: Perhaps going around it...
D: Its very difficult...
K: ...maybe they bend it?
D: Yeah that's the impression that I got is that they bend time.
K: They bend time.
D: I don't know what the practical application of that is though, unfortunately.
K: Yeah, obviously we're not physicists here.
D: [Laughing] Yeah, exactly.
K: But if you bend time - certainly if I bend something, and I've got a line, and over here is 2012 and over here is 1920 - if I bend time and bring them together, I'm going from 2012 to 1920 or visa versa. In a sense I am traveling through time.
K: But I'm bending it.
K: So I understand maybe...
D: There could well be very specific things that he was talking about related to their particular abilities. Perhaps some other ET species has different abilities, I don't know. He did convey that they did use it for traveling.
K: Okay... and what about the crafts? Did they tell you anything about their crafts - how they were propelled, et cetera?
D: No. No, just electromagnetic energy and time, that's what I got from him. I did ask him about God and the whole religion aspect of how it relates to them and us. He said that we are created. He said 'we' as in them and us. The 'we' aspect was generic - both of us, instead of saying 'we' as in them, it was in the context of all of us.
He said that we are created; we are of the same creation. He said there are two creations. One is the intelligent creation, and one is the non-intelligent creation. We, them and us, are part of the same intelligent creation.
Now he didn't say, he didn't specify any religions or anything like that. He just said that we are part of the same creation. We're all created, which I thought was very interesting from an ET aspect of it, because you wouldn't think that an ET would admit to... because of their higher level of intelligence. A lot of people think that they created us.
K: So that's what you were told, that this particular group you represented was not responsible for creating us.
D: No, he didn't say that but he said that we are part of the same creation, which would lead me to believe that they did not create us, but we are all created.
K: Did you ask him about Jesus?
D: I did.
K: Lots of people like to say that Jesus was an ET, or a partial ET.
D: Yeah, I never got any information regarding anything related to Jesus, or a specific religion or anything.
K: Okay, how did you know what species of ET he was, or did you know?
K: In other words, did your superiors say you're going to be talking to a Gray?
K: Or he could have been Nordic for all we know.
D: [laughing] Yeah, you know, I don't even keep up on the different species so I have absolutely no clue. They had nicknames for the Grays or one of them was Gray. It's actually called the Gray Project that we worked on. They also called them 'slant' missions, and I don't exactly know what or how that relates; but it is referred to as the 'missions'. If you're on a gray mission, it's called a slant mission, so I don't know how that relates to the species. I was never told anything relating to a specific species.
K: How long did your communication with Bones - with the informal nature of it - go on?
D: Well, it was pretty much the whole time we were communicating, which I think was probably around 10 months or so.
K: Okay - so in ten months time you must have asked him a lot of questions?
D: Well yeah, I tried to. You know a lot of times the communications would happen, and as time went on I got better at the communications and Bones knew that, so he didn't stay on as long for the clarification. So I would really have to be quick with my question, if I had a question.
It's kind of like having a relationship with your grandfather over the course of two or three years. Then five years later there's someone asking, “Well, what did your grandpa think about political issues?” You're, “Well, grandpa was conservative,” or “grandpa was”... So you don't remember an exact conversation exactly about what he said. But you get this sense of the answers over time because you know based on the conversations you've had.
So when I revealed the things that I've learned from them it's not word for word you know, exact quotes. It's the impression I got after asking them 3 or 4 times in a particular area and so its my reporting of my impressions of what they've communicated to me over the span of the 2 years that I did this.
K: At some point you developed a sort of a conscience about what you were doing.
K: And I'm going to assume this impacted why you left in the end anyway.
D: Uh huh.
K: But you must have asked him about the abductions?
D: Yeah I did, and I never got any answers for that, never. It was just communication and then he was gone.
K: Okay - in the abductions, you said you got latitudes and longitudes. What was the implication? Were people being abducted all over the planet on a regular basis? Are you able to tell us... was there more mass abductions? Were there mass abductions and where did they happen?
D: Well, I mean I didn't get hundreds of them, you know, I maybe got a couple dozen or three dozen or something like that. So it wasn't a lot of them and to tell you the truth I didn't really, until maybe had gotten a couple of dozen them or whatever, I didn't really start thinking, “Well, wait a minute”. It didn't really start dawning on me until I had received several of them that this might be something that is odd.
Then right toward the end - and that's probably why I stopped getting them is because I started to ask my handler about them. “What's this, what is this information? It seems like abductions and it seems like there's pain,” you know that type of thing.
The answer I always got back from the handler was, “Just communicate what you're told, what is being communicated to you. Just communicate that to us and don't ask questions. You're not here to ask questions. You're here to practice your ability”.
So then you know, then I got frustrated and of course there's a lot of other things going on with my personal life. I didn't want to be there anymore. I mean I didn't want to have this going on in my life anymore because it was affecting my personal life.
I couldn't get close to people because I didn't want to talk about things. I mean I was just having a lot of psychological issues with having this type of job because it was isolating me from the world, in my mind at the time. I mean maybe I would have worked through that but... .
K: So, Project Preserve Destiny... what is the objective of that project to your knowledge?
D: Yes. As it was told to me when I was briefed into the project at the school, there is going to be some sort of event in the future that is going to wipe out all the electromagnetic energy. Now I don't know if that's a temporary knockout or a permanent knockout or semi-permanent, or whatever. I don't know that.
But he said there's going to be some sort of event, and that this group of individuals, of intuitive communicators, were going to be the communications conduit for world leaders, and they're going to be strategically placed all around the world so that they can convey the communications, and they can convey what that communication is to the people around them or whoever, the leaders or whoever.
K: In other words, they're the only ones who are going to be able to communicate with the ETs and then to the humans in the military, because it certainly isn't just human-to-human. It's ET-to-human.
D: Well, that's kind of the wild card that I don't know. I don't think I stayed long enough in order to find out the different methods this might take, you know, or the different channels.
K: But you were communicating with an alien or an ET so it had to involve ET communication.
D: Well, that's the assumption.
K: Have you been brought back into the military or have you been interviewed, like I'm interviewing you? Have you been asked to give, I don't know, a download as to what really happened because at this point you're outside the military? You've written a book. The military is interested in all this because they brought you in, in the beginning. So are you at liberty to say if this has happened?
D: Well... no, I haven't been contacted by the government, but I will say that at one time I was on the phone with a producer from a really, really popular radio show, like one of the top two in the nation.
After I got off the phone with the producer I got a call on my cell phone. I got a call from somebody and it said, “Don't take it any further!” or some terminology that said “Stop this pursuit!” and then just hung up.
I was like, I sat there for five minutes thinking, “How in the world... ? I don't understand this!” Because I was on the phone with this producer, and it wasn't more than thirty seconds or a minute after I got off the phone with this producer that I got that phone call.
That was the only thing that has even happened in all the communications I have had, all the conferences that I have done, and all this stuff, the book. I've never gotten any type of communication from the government and I just got that phone call. Who knows, it might have been the producer calling me back and just trying to scare me as a joke or something. I don't know, but it was quite odd.
That's what was unusual about it, because I was on my cell phone with the producer and the landline that I was at, at the time, called. That's why I though it was weird because if it were the cell phone then maybe I would think that somebody was...
K: Somebody calling you back.
K: Obviously tapping your communications. I mean why wouldn't they? Now you're an electronics expert, are you not?
D: Well, in a very, very limited capacity with what I was doing in the military. Yeah, I knew a lot about it.
K: Okay, so you must know about surveillance techniques and...
K: ...what they have at their disposal. And you must be conscious, I mean even as a telepath to some degree, you must know that you're being monitored?
D: Oh, yeah. When I first released the book I did it in a way that if there was going to be some sort of interesting activity from the government when I released it, that they really couldn't do anything about it.
I sent it to one of the largest websites at the time and this was 1997, so the web wasn't as big as it is today, obviously, but there was a site called 'ufomind.com' and Glenn Campbell - he lives in Las Vegas or somewhere around there - was running it.
I don't know where it is now or how big it is now, but it was the biggest UFO related, alien related type of site. I sent the manuscript to him and then we released the book. So I wanted it to be out there in the public with somebody before it actually got printed.
So anyway, right after I wrote the book I sent some pictures to a UFO magazine in England. A lady editor named Georgina Bueller, or something like that. Anyway, I sent it to her. She said she sent them back - I never got them back.
They were very interesting pictures. They were the pictures of one of the bases I was stationed at. I'm absolutely positive that somebody did not want those pictures to continue to be copied. But they were published in the UFO magazine that month.
Anyway, those are the only two scenarios that I've come across. If you think about it though, they have no incentive to do anything to silence me - because if they do something, then that just brings a certain level of press or whatever to the situation because something has been done about what I'm saying.
If you don't do anything about what I'm saying, then its kind of lumped in with all the other, you know, loonies or whoever else is out there talking about aliens and things.
D: I think their concern was: am I going to have any evidence? And of course I had absolutely no evidence of the Gray Project. So to them its like you know, whatever.
K: You could just be a nutcase out there.
K: But on top of it I mean I have to say you've kept a pretty low profile. You live in a kind of an obscure area, excuse me for saying that...
K: ...but it is...
K: ...you know, to some degree.
K: And some of the people in the UFO circuit, if you will, are pretty flamboyant and out there, and constantly...
D: High profile, yeah.
K: ...seen around and what not. You are kind of low profile.
D: Well, you know, it's interesting - because what lends my story a higher degree of credibility is that I'm not a typical person like you just said, like they see on the UFO circuit.
I've spoken at conferences, but I don't fit in at those conferences. I've done a lot of press - and what I found is I am a very different person from most of the people in the UFO world in that I have conservative ways and most people have a more free lifestyle, or are more liberal or whatever.
If this hadn't happened to me and somebody told me the story, you know, with just my own background and everything, I would say that they're just lunatics.
So it's very interesting...
K: Yeah, it is.D: ...that this person here has experienced what he has experienced, and that would be the only thing that would make me a believer, is me experiencing it. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't be as believing of this world or this you know, stuff happening in this world. But definitely, it's real - because I've experienced it.