David Icke

May 19, 2010

Bill Ryan (BR): This is Bill Ryan from Project Avalon, and it's the date... and I'll say that again, let me start one more time. I'll tell you what you could do actually, could you do one of these hand clap things…

David Icke (DI): Yeah sure. Well, one and a half hand claps I can do. [laughs]

BR: This is the sound of a one and a half hands clapping. [laughs]

DI: Yeah, yeah... [claps his hands twice]

BR: Very good, okay... Very nice. So.

DI: I've the quietest clapper ever, me, I have to do it something like this [claps the bottom of his hands together]

BR: [laughs] You have to remind me. One of these days those idiots on YouTube are gonna get the hang of the fact that you've got arthritis and therefore you can't do a proper handshake, you know. [laughs]We should do a demonstration on this video...

DI: Yeah, this is a...

BR: ...of Look, you know, we're trying our best to...

DI: That's a Masonic handshake, ladies and gentlemen... [laughs]

BR: ...We're trying our best to shake hands here...

DI:'s a Masonic handshake between, ah, masons who've got rheumatoid arthritis in their hands, you know, it's a, it's an old tradition...

BR: ...Aaah...

DI: ...goes back to Babylon. [They both laugh]

BR: So, this is Bill Ryan from Project Avalon and the date is the 19th of May, 2010. And even now I can't quite believe it's 2010. You know, David, sometimes you must look back and you think “My God, it was in the early 1990's last time I looked. Time is accelerating.” Do you find that sometimes?

DI: I find it all the time, Bill. When I first had my conscious awakening in 1990 and I started meeting psychic after psychic who were just giving me the same basic confirming repeating information, one of the earliest things that I came across was something that I called the Truth Vibrations. In fact, the first book I ever wrote on these subjects was called Truth Vibrations because of this.

And it was – and, my goodness me there was no sign of it at the time, to say the least – there was a vibrational change in the process of it manifesting, and this was going to; a) break up the density that was holding people in servitude, in the collective coma if you like, and people are gonna wake up and see themselves and the world in a different way; and the other thing that it was going to bring to the surface all that had remained hidden.

And again, you know, as we know: 1990, are you kidding? No sign of it. But look at it now, it's unbelievable the number of people who are waking up all over the world to a new version of self and the world. And, my goodness, how much information has hit the surface that wasn't there 20 years ago? How many? Not, ten years ago, five years ago, it's an exponential curve.

And one of the interesting aspects of this which I, again, picked up in those early days, was a... One line through a psychic to me was: eventually, time is gonna pass so fast, it's going to be frightening. Because, time and space – for me, anyway – are not real, well we know that, they are a construct.

If you take a computer disk and it's got information on it, and it's programmed with certain data, and you put it in the computer. That computer will read that data and it will take that, if you like, digital level, information level, and it will put it on the screen as apparently time and space. And we're doing that, and the left brain is taking information, and it's sequencing it.

And the more quickly it makes that sequence happen, the more time seems to be passing quicker and the reverse in the other way. And so, as people, Einstein said: if you sit in the dentist waiting room, then that sequence is not very fast – [mumbling:] Oh my And then you've got, I think in his analogy you're in the company of a beautiful woman, and “ssshhhh” [motioning forward] the sequence is real quick.

And what seems to be the situation is that this energetic change, as we change from an epoch of suppression to an epoch of expansion and enlightenment, and awareness, is that it's having the effect of the way we decode reality, the way we decode sequence, appears to be being fundamentally affected.

And I said in an article the other day, did April happen? Did we have March? If so, why did I miss it? Because that's what it seems to me, that's just extraordinary the way Christmas... What, wh... When was Christmas? I mean, two years ago? I mean it's just amazing what's happening.

BR: This awakening that you refer to, you saw that in front of your eyes at the Brixton Academy just a few days ago when you did your major, new rollout presentation after the publication of your new book. And, of course, this is why this interview is timed the way that it is because – let me talk to the audience here: David's got a substantial amount of important new information, and in Brixton, that was the first time that you did your eight or was it nine hours? We're talking about...

DI: Eight hours actual talking, yeah.

BR: That was a pretty big rollout, and you told me the other day that you were blown away by the response that you got from those people whereas 15 years ago, you were playing to empty chairs. Things have changed, haven't they?

DI: Oh, it's extraordinary. I... I... You know, when I started out, 20 years ago, despite, you know, not just the ridicule, the mass ridicule, but when I started to go around talking about stuff – of course, I knew a lot less then now, as we all did – but, it was like banging your head against the wall, you know. I would put the chairs out, no one would come, basically, and then I'd talk to empty chairs and a few people, and then I'd put the chairs back and go home. And that was it, that was the night.

And you thought: no chance, this is going nowhere. But you know, as we all know, something drives you on. Something deep drives you on: “Keep going, keep going”. And you think, Oh, what's the point? - “Keep going”.

And, over the last particularly ten years, I mean maybe I started picking up really about 15 but then ten and then five because the curve is going like that [motions upward], it's just extraordinary, mate, I mean all over the world, it doesn't matter what culture you go into – of course, some are more suppressed and therefore close-minded than others but – all over the world, it's extraordinary, you know.

What I picked up in 1990 about these Truth Vibrations, this awakening, this... the way this energetic change was gonna break up the density that was holding us in servitude and ignorance: it's happening.

And, you know, you go through the years and you think, you know, It's all doom and gloom and all the rest of it, and when you look at the way society is going, if you watch the television news and read the newspapers, you would think that this Orwellian global fascist communist – same thing, different name – dictatorship, this Orwellian global state, was basically a done deal, because it is moving real, real fast, but...

And if you only come from the five-sense level of this, and you only see, you know, what the conscious mind can see and perceive, then I can completely understand why people take that on, I completely understand why there are many, you know, researchers into the five-sense level of the conspiracy who are just going [motions pulling his hairs out] “There's nothing we can do!”

But there is, because this is... This world is not like we think it is. There are other forces at work. This so-called physical solid reality is not physical and solid at all, it's fluid. It doesn't seem to be like that, but it is. And because it's got this fluidity behind the apparent stiffness and solidity and immovability, it means that this level of reality can change very, very fast.

See, when people perceive that – I completely understand it because the conscious mind is completely giving us this … focus of reality – when we think that the physical world has to change by changing physical things, then you're looking at time scales of change that are just enormous – as we perceive time, anyway – because that's how it is in the so-called solid world.

But when you realize that this so-called solid world is actually just a holographic projection, and the real base reality of this universe is wave form vibrating information, then the speed that this world can change suddenly takes on dramatically different proportions. For instance, if you had a computer screen and you had to change that computer screen or what was on it, physically, I mean: where do you bloody start? But that computer screen is a projection from information on a disk. “Okay, so I want to change that, okay: disk out, reprogram, press enter, disk in” - Woooow! Different world.

And what's happening now, as part of this whole Truth Vibrations transformation, is the information construct of this universe is changing – as it does, it's a cycle and then the ancients talked about the circular nature of time. And this, this for me, Bill – I can only speak, you know, when I talk like this, from where I'm coming from and what I've researched; people have to come to their own conclusions of course, it's only right – but, the ancients talked about the circular nature of time, and it is. It's like a cosmic game.

And we go through different epochs – what the Indian culture calls Yugas and other people around the world have different names for them – where this cycle goes through times of great expansion, what the ancients called the Golden Age. And it goes through periods of suppression when things are not like that at all and there's great challenges, and that's when control systems come in and all the rest of it, and then there are others that bring this back to where we started and the whole sequence starts again.

It's an interactive computer game – in the simplest possible way – in that we are picking up information from the game, like the computer picks up information from the disk and puts it on the screen, but we are also, as with the Internet, posting our unique contribution to this game. So it's an interactive game: we give and we receive, in it.

And it seems very powerfully right to me, going right back to the Truth Vibrations coming into my life 20 years ago, that awareness of it, anyway, is that we are moving at this time from a period of suppression – I don't think anyone needs any convincing of that – and we're moving into a period of much greater expansion of consciousness, expansion of awareness, from fear and insecurity.

And insecurity is the key to understanding why people want control: if people want control, or any other entity, whatever we want to call them, want control over others, want control over – not the power to express your own life, express your own experience, but power over others' experience, which is what we're talking about with the control system – then that is always, always, always the manifestation of deep insecurity.

So the control system is run by insecure people. And we're moving from this period now, and we're at this cusp which is why it's all really bumpy, because we're now in this period where there is a tussle, symbolically and literally in many ways, between the energetic construct of this control – suppressed epoch, if you like - and the cusp going into this other one.

And so, we've got a situation where the control system is desperately trying to hold on to its power which it's had through this period, and the Truth Vibrations, this energetic quickening - which delivers to us a whole new level of information to decode and, therefore, manifest a different world - they're at this tussle point, this cusp point. And every minute, and every year as we measure time that passes, this Truth Vibrations level of awareness is going to be imposing itself as the norm.

And so I say that the control system is doomed. I'm incredibly optimistic. It's not a case of [makes a little voice:] It's doomed, it's doomed, so I'm gonna sit here and do nothing coz it's doomed. It's not like that. We are an expression of these energies, and, therefore, we need to tune into them, follow their guidance, follow their inspiration, whatever, and be a five-sense-reality expression of them.

It's not just about sitting around and letting it happen. We're making choices here: are we gonna go with this new flow of massive expansion and freedom and potential of unimaginable proportions compared with our reality here, or are we going to try to hold on to the world that we've lived in up to this point, the 'control and suppression' and 'winners and losers' and “some must have therefore a lot must lose” and all this stuff. Because that's the choice we're making, that's the fork in the road.

And people who hold on to this energy, this reality, are going to have some real challenging times – everyone is, of course, because we're at this epoch of change – but really challenging times, because they're attaching their awareness, they're attaching their sense of reality to an energetic construct that is in its death throes.

And if you bring it back, Bill, to the control system that we're exposing and is manifesting or trying to manifest itself more and more, then that is an absolute, one-hundred-percent holographic manifestation of this old-epoch energetic construct. Therefore, it must fall when the energetic construct falls. If I take that disk out of the computer, that picture on the screen that the computer is manifesting from that information must go black. It must go blank. Because the information construct which has created that is no longer there, and that's where we're going.

And like I said, we're in for some challenging times because we're in this bumpy middle cusp changeover period, the transformation, but my goodness me, you know, our kids and grandkids are not going to live most of their lives in a control system as it so looks like they're going to at this time, and will look like it for a few years yet. But this whole thing’s coming down.

It's a great time to be alive. Very wonderful time to be here, to see suppression and limitation replaced by expansion and infinite potential. Wonderful, wonderful time, challenging as it is.

BR: What I love about the way that you explain about that is that it marries perfectly, some viewers may recognize this, with the theoretical work of a British physicist called David Bohm, B-O-H-M. He described exactly what you're referring to as the implicate reality and the explicate reality.

DI: Yes, right, yeah.

BR: Have you heard of that before?

DI: Yeah, yeah.

BR: And the way to change the explicate reality, which is like what is ex-pressed in our apparent physicality, is there’s this implicate reality behind all this. And, of course, high-technology ETs, advanced spiritual beings, or mischievous spiritual beings or evil spiritual beings who don't want to know what they're there, they mess around with the implicate reality and then the results are like metaphorical projections on the wall, on the explicate reality, and this is kind of what you're saying. So I just wanted to close that loop there, because you're not talking nonsense here, this is recognized by quantum physicists everywhere.

DI: Well, that's an interesting point, Bill. I mean, maybe I could explain something that I've got in this new book, Human Race Get off Your Knees, which relates to that in terms of how I'm saying this control system came about, certainly the control system in the time that we can go back and recognize it.

I'm saying that there was a time when this planet, this reality, was in the period of what the ancients called the Golden Age – in fact I think there's a Golden Age yuga in Indian Hindu belief. [Note: This yuga is called the Satya Yuga.] And that is a time of great expansion and connection. And so we could not, from the perspective of life here now, in so-called physical bodies, really perceive the true dramatic different nature of what that epoch expresses, where you're in this world, but you're not of it in terms of your point of observation.

You're experiencing this world but you know you're experiencing this world. You're not in this world and you think this world is all you are, you're there [cups his hands around his face]. You're at the point where you are looking at and experiencing the world immediately that you are quote “in” but you've got points of observation, points of understanding, in the higher realms of consciousness, which can give you a totally different fix upon this reality.

For instance, if you are sitting in a house, and all the windows are shut – which is basically symbolic of what humans have been in this period we've been through – then you can think that the world and everything is in that house. But you open a window, as you pull your point of observation back not just from within that house but from much higher levels of perception – because of this connection between experiencing level and higher levels of consciousness – suddenly you realize the house is in a street! And you go out on the street you realize that the street’s in an estate, the estate’s in a town, the town’s in a county, the county’s in a country – Hey! I'm … I'm on a planet! And then you look out into the stars...

And... but all that has always been there, while you've been sitting in the room with the windows shut, thinking this is all there is [cups his hands around his face]. So this, that Golden Age period, where people knew that we were all one consciousness, I mean, meant that the conflict, the division, the competition, the I must win, I must get to the top of the greasy pole, the sense that there is division between us, there is apartness between us, that doesn't manifest in these periods of expansion and understanding. We realize we're one unified consciousness, which has different points of observation, which we give different names to.

BR: To jump sideways: this was beautifully presented in the Avatar movie, that you wrote...

DI: Yes, absolutely right. See I think... I'm not saying what James Cameron meant or symbolized by that movie, I don't know, I can tell you what it symbolized to me. And, actually, that's a good point because it relates to where I'm going with this.

What that manifestation of Golden Age expanded reality is, is, within this Time Loop - which is not really a loop, we may get to that as we go along – is information, an expanded level of information within the construct of this reality, which we decode through into holographic experience, and it's a very different holographic experience to the one we've been having and the one we're having now, because the information construct is very different to the one we're decoding now.

What I am saying in the book is: something happened, in this reality, to create what I call a Schism. This Schism was a distortion within the information construct. And that distortion changed everything. One of the things it did... Because, I keep coming back to this, I think it's so important: if we keep thinking physical – and physical is what it seems to be, physical – then we're gonna lose the plot because it's not like that.

This is a holographic illusory, apparently three-dimensional reality, but it's not solid: we decode it like that, but it's not actually solid. It's the information construct, which is decoded through into this, and so if you take again, not even the analogy, the principle of holograms, you have got on a holographic print ... information in wave form.

If you look at a holographic print, it looks pretty much like a fingerprint – now that's no accident, either – and then they fire the laser at the holographic wave form, information, and, manifesting from that, is this apparently three-dimensional holographic figure, whatever’s been photographed, whatever information is on the print. And so at the same time, you have got the information construct, the wave form, and you've got the manifestation, the holographic manifestation from the wave form, which is the image, person, box, apple, whatever you photographed.

So when scientists say: Uh, how could something exist as wave form and particle form at the same time? It's because they DO! When you are looking at a holographic figure, a holographic illusory three-dimensional figure, the information construct from which that is manifested doesn't disappear and it [the holographic figure] just stands there alone: they stand there together! They're different forms of the same thing. One is the information, one is the decoded information.

So what I'm saying with this, in terms of the sequence that I'm talking about, is when this information construct in this, what I would ... let's call it the Golden Age, was distorted, then that distortion had to manifest through into the decoded holographic world. And one of the ways that it did so was massive, enormous, catastrophic geological events. And these are recorded in accounts, ancient accounts and legends, all over the world. They talk about great volcanic, earthquake catastrophes, they talk about the Earth turning over and what have you, and they're consistent all around the world in the way that they do this and tell these stories.

And then you've got people who've researched from a scientific point of view – geological, biological level – in more modern times, and they found that these ancient stories are mirrored in the biological and geological record.

So what happened when this distortion in the energetic information wave form foundation construct happened, it was manifested through into holographic reality as, well, I mean the Biblical version of it is the Great Flood but I think there have been many of these things, not just one, but certainly catastrophic ones. The other thing I'm saying it did, is that it created Schisms, distortions, in the human personality.

Because that harmony, that connection, that everything in harmony and connection with everything else – brilliantly symbolized as you say by the Blue people in the Avatar movie – that distortion brought an end to that. It brought an end to the harmony of the planet itself, the geological [unclear] catastrophes, but it fractured human personalities, that harmony became fractured.

And then we went into all these different emotional states and … distortions (again: distortion here - distortion here) that we see: all the emotional distortions, the fear which is a distortion, and other low-vibrational emotional states, worry, fear, and frustration, anger, hatred, conflict. All this started to manifest.

And we're now in the period, I would suggest, where that distortion is being healed, by these Truth Vibrations, by this energetic change. Now this is fundamentally important to the control system, because the control system, in all its forms, is a holographic manifestation of the distortion!

If the distortion's not there, the control system cannot manifest, because within a harmonious, balanced information construct, things like control over, hunger, famine, war, hatred, torture, satanist rituals, pedophilia, all this stuff cannot manifest. These are all manifestations of the distortion.

And as this distortion is healed... and what's happening, Bill, I would suggest – I keep saying I suggest, I'm not telling people what to believe, I'm just saying what I feel – people who are waking up and going: Why hadn't I seen it before? They're the ones who are opening their minds and through that vibrating faster – because this suppression of vibrational state, the close mind, the density, breaks up when you open your mind to other possibilities – they're the ones tuning to the information construct that's coming in, the Truth Vibrations as I call them.

And the ones who are still in the control system and still supportive of it, they're the ones that are still close-minded and are still, at this moment, attached to this old dense, low-vibrational epoch of experience. And so, like I've said earlier, as this distortion is healed, its manifestation must fall! Because this information construct is being deleted from the system.

And so what we're seeing is not ... and it may sound strange, but if you follow it through I don't think it is. We are now seeing the control system at its peak of imposition. It seems to be moving faster and faster, more Orwellian laws and all the rest of it. More and more control, they want the microchips in people, they're moving along that road, that agenda. We're having our children – adults too, but particularly our children – targeted with electro-chemical distortions, in terms of the chemical additives to food and drink and the mobile phone, the microwave, electro-magnetic soup from all this electro-magnetic technology.

And this is all being thrown at us at this time – I would suggest, controversially maybe – not for the control system to get more power, but to defend the power it's already had from these Truth Vibrations.

No longer can the old way of controlling people, where people just stay asleep [makes snoring sounds] ... They don't have to do too much! They don't have to do too much at this point: they've got control, they've got control of the resources, they've got control of this, control of that, and quietly they can just feed off humanity energetically, resource-wise and everything, have humanity go along, being their slaves without realizing it - which is the greatest form of slavery, of course, being a slave and not realizing it.

But because of these Truth Vibrations and because they can see down what we call the timeline, down the Time Loop as we might perceive it, they could see some of this coming. And so they've focused on this period to throw everything at us, to try to stop us being affected fundamentally, profoundly, by this Truth Vibration transformation, because once we do that, [motions looking out from a restricted viewpoint], it's game over.

And so, for me the amazing synchronicity between this vibrational change and people waking up, and this bombardment of multilevel, multidimensional, immensely detailed impositions – mentally, physically, emotionally – on the human race to suppress us and control us, these two have synched here because this will set us free and that is trying to stop that happening. No chance.

But what that will do is make the transformation more bumpy and more challenging than it would otherwise be without this seeking to stop it. Can't stop it. This thinks it's the irresistible force, the immovable object. It ain't. This is the irresistible force and this is gonna have some real shocks as we move through the next little while up to 2016, 2017, maybe a little longer – certainly within my lifetime – as we see this apparently impregnable, unstoppable control system structure emerging; when we see that fall – because it's a house of cards.

Why? Because the energetic information construct that's held the house of cards together, which manifests itself massively as human apathy and human ignorance – which is fundamental to holding it together – that's going. And so, the house of cards must fall. Sorry chaps, [it's] just the way it is.

BR: So what was the new information that you presented at the Brixton Academy the other day?

DI: Well there was quite a lot. I was working on that presentation for, well, months, really, because it was really a new period in my life and I'm going around the world with it this year: Europe and America and stuff.

Maybe I could just explain how I've put this information – whatever people make of it – together over the years. It's been very simple and it's been a constantly recurring theme. It's just repeated itself as I've moved through levels of understanding.

And when I – as we talked about the last time we chatted, Bill – I talked about what happened to me when I went to the psychic in 1990, when I felt for about a year that there was this presence around me, and when I was in a room alone, I wasn't alone. And it got more and more and eventually… Long story short, I went to see a psychic for the first time in my life and she started, after two visits, on the third visit she started to get this stuff, this figure in her head and she said: I'm being told to tell you things, that I was going to go out on a world stage and I was going to reveal great secrets.

And I... you know me: I'm presenting the snooker and the sport at the BBC at the time. And I was the national spokesman for the Green Party and all that stuff, but I'm gonna go on a world stage and reveal great secrets... I mean, you know, what? But something inside me beyond the conscious level was going: You are. You are. Go with it! Go with it!

But, anyway, where I'm going with this is: among these messages that were given to me in 1990 were: He will say things and wonder where they came from. They will be our words. Sometimes we will put knowledge into his mind. Sometimes he will be led to knowledge. And another one was, a little bit later: Arduous seeking is not necessary. It was all organized a long time ago - words to that effect. All he has to do is follow the clues.

Now as you know, there's a famous advert in Britain that's been going around for a few years now, and the punch line is: It does exactly what it says on the tin. Well, all I can say about they, whoever they are at some level of disembodied consciousness, is that they have done exactly what they said on the tin.

And what's happened over the years is that – right from the start, really – is that I've had an insight out of nowhere that something's like it is. And then the five-sense information starts coming. Like, I'll meet someone who brings up this subject and I pick up information about it. I'll see a book suddenly about this information. I'll have an experience which is about this information. I'll come across documents. I might see something on the Internet about this information.

But it's not like it's like a week, a month, two months, three months. This is a concentrated sequence. And I've learned over the years that... to follow this and to recognize it, which is not difficult because it gets more powerful and the sequence gets smaller.

And the reptilian thing started coming out like that. I started to get insights in the fact that, not necessarily reptilian, but that there was a non-human element to this. And at that point I traveled America for place-to-place talking for about fifteen days and met twelve separate people who told me about reptilian entities and their experiences with them. And that's how it works, and then it goes on. So, coming around to this new information, it was the same sequence.

I started writing this book from the early part... maybe about March, 2009, although a great chunk was stopped when I was traveling. And, I don't know, a month, two months into it, I sat down to start writing that day and the energy in the room changed. And I thought: I know this, I recognize this. The energy in the room changed. There was a vibrational change. You could feel it. The atmosphere changed – a simple way of putting it – I recognize this.

And, what I then got as this was happening is, the basic first theme was: the Moon is not real. Of course, there's more to know about that as came, but the Moon is not real, the Moon is not what you think it is. And I'm thinking... the Moon is not what you think it is. Now, I've had one or two inklings about that over the years. A little thought, you know, in the moment. But then it's gone. It never got anywhere.

And so, I thought: the Moon's not real. So, I put a few key words into NetFind, not expecting to find a bloody thing. And within a minute, two minutes, I don't know, even less, I suppose, with the speed of Google and stuff, out came a book called, Who built the Moon? by two researchers who've written other books. Who built the Moon? I mean, you know, what a wonderful title for what I've just got here: the Moon's not real.

And I read it. I sent for it and I read it immediately. And, I'm not saying every last thing in the book, or every last thing in any book, is 100 percent. I mean, crikey, we're trying to uncover great mysteries and not least mysteries that don't want to be uncovered or at least people who don't want us to uncover them. So, you know, I'm not saying every last word in every book is 100 percent; of course it's not. It's not the way things are. But I was really, really impressed with the way they had shown the anomalies, the very strange, unexplainable anomalies about how... well first of all, about how the Moon was created.

When I started reading about the scientific explanations... And, that's another thing, you know. So many scientific theories, by repetition become: This is how it was, scientific fact. And then you go: Hold on a second. Scientific fact? Let's go back here … Hey! It's a theory!

And I came across the Big Whack Theory about how the Moon was created. And, it's that a Mars-type planet hit the Earth, a great chunk came off the Earth and became the Moon. And then I read, as I followed this through, that because the physics and stuff – the science of that – didn't pan out, then they kind of altered it a bit so that the planet hit the Earth and then came back and had another go.

And I thought, Well that's bloody desperate, that.

- I'll give you one. Do you want another one?

- Yeah

- Okay, here you go. Here's the Moon now. [You] see what you caused?

And the fact that the Moon is far bigger than it really should be as a satellite of the Earth, that its positioning and its geometry, geometric and mathematical relationship, between the Earth and the Sun particularly is very, very impressive and “what?”. And the fact that there is evidence that the Moon is hollow – to a large extent hollow. I think it's in compartments.

And then I came across – which many people might have come across in the past, this is all very concertinaed – the two scientists from the Russian, Soviet Academy of Sciences, who wrote an article in, I think, Sputnik Magazine in the 1970s, posturing that the Moon was a construct, a hollow... not a total construct, necessarily, but a hollowed-out planetoid. Again: hollowed out. And that a very advanced extraterrestrial non-human, whatever you want to call it, life form, technologically advanced, had created this construct.

And they go into detail about how they think it's constructed. And when you follow the way they say it's constructed, it starts to answer anomalies that science goes: What? As one scientist said, the only thing you can really say about the Moon is its observational error; it shouldn't be there in the way that it is.

One of the things the scientists said, for instance, is that on the outside of the Moon for about three miles or so, is an initial buffer zone, if you like, to protect it from being smacked by space debris and objects.

And then they say – I'm not saying this is absolutely 100 [percent] true, but I think the themes are probably absolutely right – then there's like a twenty mile, they said, impregnable barrier. And then you've got the craters on the Moon which, despite their different sizes and obviously, power of impact, they've got a pretty universal depth, which people have said: How can that be, when you've got different?... So, something's going so far and then no further.

Anyway, all this came together and I put loads of other... there's a lot of detail in the book, and then I rang the oracle, didn't I? So, I rang Credo Mutwa, the Zulu Shaman, the official historian for the Zulu Nation. And... I found that if you take the symbolism of Zulu legends, I found them to be extraordinarily accurate over the years.

And one of the things that makes me smile is: these mainstream anthropologists and historians and what have you, they so often take symbolic stories that the ancients tell and they decode them literally because they're left-brain people – that's all they can do, they can't just spin the thing through the process of seeing it symbolic. Because we are at a time when we... it's so much easier to communicate what we're trying to say, because more and more and more, technology is mirroring the very reality that we are experiencing.

For instance, this virtual-reality universe is a vibrating information construct and we decode that information through the electrical, into the holographic, to create this reality. I've just described the Internet, you see. If the wireless Internet is in this room, then your computer over there can pull this worldwide collective reality out of the unseen ether. Well, that's what we're doing in a much more sophisticated way. This is why the information construct is so fundamental to the holographic reality that we experience.

And what the ancients had was none of this stuff! These seers and carriers of the knowledge, to try to get across what they were trying to say about reality and life, they had to use the symbolism that was available to them, and the symbolism that their audience, the people of that time, could understand.

All of which is a prerequisite to this. I called Credo. I told him nothing about my thoughts on the Moon and how... what stuff I'd kind of linked together up to that point.

I said one simple sentence:

- Credo, can you tell me any Zulu legends about the Moon?

- Oh yes, Mr. David – he said – We call the Moon an egg. We say the Moon is an egg.

Of course, an anthropologist who wasn't aware of this stuff would go: The Moon's an egg? [Whispers:] Primitive people. Primitive. Primitive. They'd never pass an exam, you know.

Why did they symbolize an egg? Because they say the Moon was hollowed out, was hollowed out by two brothers, reptilian brothers, called Umpanku and Rwani. And they were known as the Water Brothers in the Zulu legends. And, they say that they hollowed out the Moon and rolled it across the sky hundreds of generations ago. And when they brought it to the Earth, it created great geological catastrophe.

And, of course, when the Moon came in, one of the things it would do is make the Earth move. And then you've got this ancient theme of the Earth turning over. It would... basically, what it would do is destroy whatever was there before and then they can build, as everything settles down, those within the Moon can build their own new society. I'm absolutely certain that's what happened.

And interestingly, of course, Bill, as you will well know, Umpanku and Rwani, who in Zulu legends had scaly skin like a fish, were two brothers that were called the Water Brothers. This is the legends of Zulu South Africa. Take that to Sumer, Babylon and the Sumerian tablets and you come into the Anunnaki who were led by Enki and Enlil. And certainly Enki was very much symbolized and associated with water. They were... again: they were brothers.

And again, it mirrors that whole story, and so many stories about brothers. Things like Cain and Abel and all these brother stories. I think you bring them back; they have an original theme coming back from these, what I would say, reptilian entities. And the Zulu legends say that Rwani and Umpanku were reptilian, were... they're called there the Chitauri, the children of the serpent, children of the python. They stole the Moon from what they call the Great Fire Dragon and brought it to the Earth.

And... the Moon brought catastrophe, changed everything. Of course, it affected the angle and spin of the Earth – the whole bloody thing. It affects water. It has tremendous impacts on the human hormonal system which locks into the endocrine system, which locks into the pineal and pituitary gland of the third eye – seeing beyond five-sense sight, and being aware of levels beyond five senses. It has a fundamental impact. Never mind other things that I'm saying is coming out of that Moon. Being there, that size, that place has fundamental effects on the Moon.

And going back to what I was talking about earlier, I'm saying that when that Moon arrived, in association with other things that happened at the same time – because there's a whole story to tell about Mars and what happened to that in this story – that that... You see, we look at the Moon like everything else and we see a solid Moon. That's the holographic decoded level of it. Its prime state is an informational construct. Like everything in the wave form-base informational construct of this reality.

So as the Moon came in “physically”... it only came in physically in the holographic play-out reality, what we call five-sense reality – I call it, anyway, keep it simple. It was actually information moving in through the informational wave form construct and that caused the distortion, which is manifest on this planet of all the things we've talked about before. And that distortion has manifested itself in the control system.

It's manifested itself in fractured human personalities, in disharmony, and in a desperately limited sense of self and the world. Because when you are in harmony and in balance, you can access higher levels of consciousness. But when your energy field is doing this: [motions agitation and babbling] all that stuff, with all the things – worry, fear, [babbling] – then, you're not in that state.

And therefore, what you can tune into, and what you can bring down in terms of understanding, awareness, insight, even manifestation, is fundamentally limited to the harmonic, harmonious state of awareness that we were in before – humans were in before – the distortion.

And like I say, these Truth Vibrations are healing the distortion. And the manifestation of the distortion is now throwing everything at us to try to hold on to what is something that is being energetically deleted from the disk, which is why the world is going to change dramatically, and after this cusp is got through, dramatically for the better, dramatically for the better.

BR: Now, where does this lead back to about the significance of the Moon being not what it appears to be?

DI: Well, see... I think that when the Moon came in, as I mentioned earlier, it was in association with lots of other things. You know, when the ancients talked about a war of the gods in the heavens, I don't think they were talking symbolically at all. What the symbolism is, we can debate, but... that people pick up from that. But I think there is a very good chance that it was actually literal. It was a battle between what we perceive to... what they perceived to be gods.

And I think the destruction of Mars, which I think was an occupied planet far more recently than people think, and the fact that there is this theme – not just with people like Immanuel Velikovsky, who's famous for it, but also again in the Zulu legends: exactly the same – that there was a planet between Mars and Jupiter, and it was destroyed. And it was destroyed by some kind of high-tech weaponry.

If you look in Star Wars, you know... Star... You know, George Lucas, Bill, is such a massive insider. He ain't talking from bloody imagination. And this stuff about: In a galaxy far, far away... Excuse me, this one. Thank you, George. And, you know, he has the theme there of a planet being destroyed and he has the theme of the Death Star. What is the Death Star? It looks like the Moon! And it's a construct. And it's a construct that's used to try to take over planets.

I think there are many of these things, and I think that what the language of life and all this stuff I talked about earlier, the way this information is put before me, what it's saying to me – I would suggest, anyway – is that there is a modus operandi whereby they bring these Moons in.

When they bring the Moons in, they have a fundamental effect on the planet as it is and therefore they basically, as they did here, have a blank sheet of paper. It's over; that civilization: over. And then as things settle down, they start genetic manipulation and other manipulation, and they take over the society, take over the planet.

But one thing to mention is that these Moons are dependent upon the target planet for resources, for slave labor to create the resources and all the rest of it. So although there seems to be this dynamic that the Moon is in control of the planet, actually the Moon is completely dependent upon the planet for all that it needs.

And one of the common themes through the ancient accounts, through the Zulu legends and through people that I've met in the modern world over the years, is that these reptilian entities – who I say were within the Moon, not only there, mind, within the Earth and also in other areas of this solar system, but – they are terrified of exposure.

Because compared with the human population, there's not that many of them. That's why... one of the reasons they want to cull the human population – which is a recurring theme in conspiracy research – is because they can't deal with the numbers.

But also they're completely dependent on this planet for resources and...

BR: It's a parasitic relationship you're describing.

DI: Oh, that's what I've said in the book. And this is interesting, Bill, because I talk about something in the book which I call the Moon Matrix. And this Moon Matrix is a collective mind which is broadcast from the Moon. And basically it is the collective mind of these reptilian entities. So what they've actually done – I’ll explain what I mean in a second in more detail – but in theme, given you bring up that point about parasites, is that in so many ways, humanity has become a collective expression of that mentality.

So if you look at society... and I have talked about this whole subject in the book, funny enough, you have a parasitical group who literally go around parasiting off other planets, other groups of people, populations, planetary populations. And they have transferred that into the human society.

Look at it, Bill! The human society is awash with people parasiting off other people. Using their efforts, using their talents to make rewards for them to which they've contributed nothing. Look at the banking system! It's the greatest parasitical network you could ever come across! You look at governments parasiting off the population. Look at transnational corporations parasiting off the population. And then you bring it down into the general population and you've got parasites.

I mean, I've had parasites in my life. One guy tried to take over control of all my books and I had to spend a fortune going to court to stop him. He hadn't contributed a word, or a fact! People like Jordan Maxwell's had parasites in his life. One in particular, who tried to take over his work, his life's work and make money out of it. So many people! You see parasites everywhere. Why? And then you come down into the body of a parasite, and the body is multilevel.

And I would suggest that the reptilian mentality has been transferred to the human collective mind in a way I'll come to, through what I call the Moon Matrix. It depends how powerfully tuned you are to this Moon Matrix, this collective mind, as to how you are affected by it. The more powerfully tuned to it, the more your behavior and perceptions will be mirrors of this hive-mind mentality.

And the more you expand your awareness and therefore your vibrational state out of this Moon Matrix frequency – which is being broadcast from the Moon, I would suggest – the less you're affected by it.

Now, very quickly, we come back to this period we're in. They are desperate to stop people awakening out of the influence of the Moon Matrix, therefore out of the herd mentality, the hive-mind. And once you start to withdraw from it, its influence over you diminishes, eventually disappears, and suddenly you can see things you couldn't see before.

And one of the… as I mentioned earlier, the prime base state of these reptilian entities, because they desire control over, is desperate insecurity. Fear of losing their… their ability to survive because the target population see what's going on. And therefore that's the mentality that they are based upon. This collective mind, which is connected into the collective human mind, this hive-mind, manifests, projects, communicates that into the population.

So what are you looking at? You're looking at a human population that's invariably anxious, frightened of not surviving. And not just physically, but through financially, through: Will my partner leave me? Will I lose my job? Will my belief system survive from this new information? It's all survival, survival.

And where does that come from? You talk to brain experts, brains anatomists, etc., etc., and they'll tell you: it comes from the reptilian brain. It comes from the reptilian brain, what they call, some of them call, the R-complex. I've been writing about the reptilian brain for years, for obvious bloody reasons.

And what I'm saying in the book – and again people just have to feel this – is that this genetic manipulation that the ancients talked about, that you find over and over and over again – you see it in the Bible: the sons of God interbred with the daughters of man and all that stuff, but that's just one expression, it's all over the place – I'm saying that this was the sequence, the basic theme sequence: Moon comes in, changes everything: end of society as it was before, massive geological, biological everything bloody catastrophe, fractured human personalities for those that even bloody survived.

And then things settled down, and now the genetic manipulation starts. And suddenly societies start springing up in Sumer, Egypt, Indus Valley, South America, West Africa, China. Ones that were ahead of the rest of them. I say it's the influence of these entities. And, of course, then you've got the stories of the Anunnaki in Sumer. You've got the stories of the Chitauri in South Ameri... in South Africa in the Zulu legends.

And what I'm saying is that there was a genetic manipulation of the human species. I'm not saying we did not have any reptilian brain before then. I'm saying that it was nothing like it is. And I say that the reptilian brain acts, if you take the computer analogy – the biological body computer analogy that I've been using for years, where it's a biological computer that picks up this information and turns it into this reality and because it's biological, it has the ability to think for itself to a certain level – if you take that analogy: this is a microchip, this reptilian brain, and this microchip is connected to the Moon Matrix.

And if we live our lives through the character traits of the reptilian brain... which is basically fear of not surviving in all its expressions, and also reaction. Reptilian brain don't think; it reacts! And that's a good thing in some ways. If you're driving along the road and someone walks in front of your car [sudden clasp of hands]: Thank you, reptilian brain. You know, you're not going through the neocortex: Oh, this woman is crossing the road. What shall I do? Shall I stop? Shall I swerve? No. Bang!

But once you get that reaction mechanism manifesting and influencing and dictating... In so many people it does – my goodness – all of us, from time to time if not more than time to time, in the general run of life, in decisions and interactions. Then you've got a society that is actually a manifestation of the reptilian brain.

And in the book I go into a lot of detail about the traits of the reptilian brain and then compare them with the traits of human society, and they're incredibly mirrors of each other, in so many ways.

And so what you've got, eventually, was: society is ended – that was there before – by the arrival of the Moon, things settle down, genetic manipulation starts tuning the human species into the Moon Matrix – the Moon transmissions – which, obviously, started with a very small population. I'd say it came out of Africa, that seems to be what anthropologists agree with as well, this species, and it manifested eventually as the human species as we know it today.

And when I saw a movie... I think it was made in the 1980s, I saw it in the 1990s... called They Live, and it was - not just produced, I think he did everything, he wrote the music, every bloody thing: John Carpenter, who has worked with Georges Lucas on Stars Wars, the special effects and stuff.

When I first saw this movie, They Live – and by the way if you go on YouTube, and put “They Live John Carpenter” in, you can still see it in sections, I do recommend it – I could see at the time, Bill, that it very much was a statement about how, was, I was understanding, the world as the years passed.

But my goodness me, from the perspective of sitting here, it is absolutely spot-on. If this guy... well, of course, John Carpenter claims that it's nothing like that, it was just a story – now c'mon, John, please..., please, please, come on..., don't insult our intelligence.

And for people who haven't come across it, this was it: started off with a massive economic depression, in America it was set, and it was in the future from the 1980s when it came out but that future’s about now, [there] was a major economic depression, and there were people living – huh, excuse me? - in tent cities and corrugated-iron groups of cobbled-together places-to-sleep-on wasteland – happening across America now – and the main character was coming through, at the start of the movie. And he's looking for a job in the building industry, and there aren't any, but he manages to get one.

At the end of the day, a big black guy says to him on the building site: Do you have anywhere to stay? and he says: No, I haven't. So, they go back (long story short) to this makeshift village, on a piece of wasteland – tents and corrugated iron, kind of put-together buildings – and they manage to somehow rig up a television set, not a very good one, in this little village. And they're watching it, just after he arrives.

And suddenly, the program is broken up [claps his hands together] and in kicks in this man, just saying: They're here (words to this effect, can't remember every word) They're here! We don't realize it, they're here! They're here! They're controlling us, they're controlling us!

Anyway, the guy that – I’ll call him the builder, the fellow [who had] arrived and was introduced to this village – he started to get very curious about a church across the road, because of the activity. Some people from here were going in there, and it was... strange. Anyway, he goes in and he has a look. And he realizes that the church music coming out during this church service, when he creeps around, is actually a bloody tape running, right, and it's an undercover operation, by these people, to resist the control system.

Because not only was there an economic depression, there was a police state – hey, hey! It's now, that's where it's... was located. So, anyway, that night there is a police state raid: there's helicopters, police, guns, and the bulldozers come in and they raze the village. Next day (some of them are arrested and he gets away) he comes back to the church, next morning. And I think, as I remember, he'd noticed that there was some boxes and cardboard boxes when he first went, and he went back and he got hold of one.

And he ran out, there's no one there at the time, he ran out down into the… to this passageway between these big buildings, back passageway, and he opens the box. And... this, just bloody sunglasses! And, of course, he's taken aback and disappointed that there are only sunglasses. So, he gets one, puts them in his pocket, throws the box away, walks out. And he walks out into the main street and he puts the glasses on. Now the world's completely different.

Now, he's seeing, not an advert for Coca-Cola, he's seeing STAY ASLEEP on that ad board; not an advert for a holiday location, but DON'T QUESTION AUTHORITY, OBEY – he can see them through the glasses. Then he goes to this news stand, and he's looking through these magazines, like Newsweek, Times, that kind of thing, with his naked eyes, and there's text and there's pictures like there normally are! Puts the glasses on, all subliminal: STAY ASLEEP, OBEY AUTHORITY, all this stuff.

Then a guy comes to buy a paper, and he looks at him: he looks human. Puts the glasses on: guy is not human anymore. So he starts going round, and he starts to realize, not everyone and nothing like the majority, but a significant number of people, when he's got the glasses on – which are decoding reality in a different way – are actually not human! But through the naked eye, he keeps doing this [motions pulling down the glasses] they're human!

So he realizes what's going on. He looks at the television, the president is making a speech: he's not human; members of the police force: are not human; goes into a bank and a number of them: are not human. And so it goes on.

Now, bringing that round to the conclusion, how the movie ends up is they realize that the reason the humanity cannot see what he can see with his glasses, is because at the top of the television tower, there's a massive dish that's broadcasting a transmission, which is blocking – I would use the word “fire-walling off”, just like the Chinese authorities fire-wall off the computer system and the Internet access system in China so that Chinese people can't access great chunks of the Internet, the rest of us can – that this signal from this dish at the top of the television tower was fire-walling off the population's ability to see what he could see with his glasses.

What I'm saying in the book is if you take that dish on the television tower, symbolically in the movie, and you put it on the Moon, then you pretty much got the theme of what I'm talking about. And, of course, there's a lot more detail to know, but I'm... in terms of the theme. And just going on from that, you know, because information is coming to me so fast at the moment in this way I described earlier, and I'm convinced that this Moon Matrix operates within a bigger control matrix, which... and I think the planet Saturn is massively involved in that.

I think there's so much more to know about the Moons of Saturn and why it has so many, and also why Georges Lucas – quite demonstrably, when you see the two put together – based the Death Star on Mimas, one of the Moons of Saturn. And, of course, as you well know, Bill, insiders have talked about enormous ships of incomprehensible (from our perspective) sizes, going in and out of Saturn.

BR: Norman Bergrun, The Ring Makers of Saturn.

DI: Yeah. And I think at a Barcelona Conference, more recently, people have talked about that as well and...

BR: Bob Dean.

DI: Yeah. And the thing is that, I think there's a big switch that we need to understand. And that is that because we, on this planet Earth, live on the... well, at least in the holographic illusory reality... [laughs] Where do we live, really, within what we call time and space? But, from our perception, anyway, we live on the outside of the planet. Is that necessarily how all planets work? I feel that at least large numbers of planets operate by the population living within the planet, and not actually on the outside.

And coming back to... And that's why I think we've missed a lot because you look at the outside and you say: It's uninhabitable! Well maybe it is on the outside but what's on the inside? But coming back to... you mentioned earlier about Avatar. I think... Like I said, I don't know what Cameron was symbolizing but it blatantly symbolizes this to me: if you take the Blue people with the lion noses – and I think the lion symbolism is very, very powerful because I think that... I use that as a symbol of the real human as opposed to the suppressed human that we've become – then, you take the Blue people with the lion noses, you take them to be Humanity before the Schism, before the predators arrived: in harmony, total connection with everything.

And then you take the American military, with their high technology, coming into that Moon, Pandora they called it, and taking over, taking the resources, just, having no comprehension for the connection of everything, just destroy it – you take that American military in Avatar to be these reptilian predators, and I think you're bloody close in theme to what actually happened.

BR: It'd be a very interesting theme, it occurred to me, for a follow-up movie, where the humans who you have described metaphorically as the reptilians...

DI: Right.

BR: ...come back in to infiltrate the Na'vi, the Blue people, with avatars that are not benevolent ones, like the ones that we saw in the movie played by Sigourney Weaver and the others, but actually as infiltrators. Because then here we have the reptilians walking in and controlling these... strategically and militarily controlling these positions on a political and economic battlefield here. By proxy, I think.

DI: Yeah, well that's a very interesting thing about the Avatar movie is that it had that dimension which I've been writing about for bloody a decade or more now, about the fact that what we call the Illuminati bloodlines are hybrids. They're human-reptilian hybrids, that were specifically bred by these reptilians.

And they're not just just in the Moon but it's a major part of their control system, I'm absolutely convinced of. They bred particular bloodlines that had a much more powerful genetic connection to them. Now again: I'm talking genetic connection what we call genetics. That's play-out holographic, that's what genetics is in our perception.

We see genetics. What the genetics really is, is a computer program, it is an information construct, within the wave form metaphysical level – what I call in the book the metaphysical universe, that's what I describe the wave form construct, information construct as: the metaphysical universe, as opposed to the play-out holographic universe. And so, because there is this genetic – here – connection [defines a space in front of him], what it is actually is here [motions a plane behind] is a vibrational information connection.

Which means that these particular bloodlines, which we call the Illuminati bloodlines, the interbreeding bloodlines at the top of the banking system and the political system and the military and all the rest of it, the media ownership, they... this vibrational compatibility means that these reptilian entities who operate just outside of human sight, or at least can project themselves in a way that we can't decode them, they can possess the mental and emotional faculties of these – and therefore behavior and actions – of these hybrid bloodlines in a way that is much less powerful within the general population.

And so when we look at the Rothschilds, when we look at the Kissingers, the Rockefellers, and all these other major global business-banking-political families, we are actually looking at the middlemen and -women, vibrationally, between the reptilians outside of human sight and the human society.

And when you... take this analogy: you know when a scientist wants to work with something which is dangerous to work with, what he'll do is... You see them from time to time: they have a big tank. The dangerous material is in the tank, [the] scientist is on the outside of the tank – think vibrational field: this reality, their reality, overwhelmingly. They can come in and out but they can't stay here for that long, it seems to be a problem. And what will the scientists do in the laboratories; they put these big gloves on. So that although they’re outside of this reality, they can work in it. These Illuminati bloodlines are in effect those gloves. They are the vehicle that allows them to infiltrate human society within our frequency range of perception, from their frequency range of perception. And, like I say, they can come into this reality – I'm sure there are some that are within our reality, [who] can stay here, quite possibly – but the major ones, the major controlling force can come in, but it can't stay for that long.

And I think there's a lot of symbolism in this, with the stories of vampires and Dracula, who... they can't come out, you know, when the sun comes out they have to disappear and all the rest of it, and stay out of the sunlight. There's a lot of symbolism in there of that.

Because the whole foundation of vampires, the vampire stories, comes from these reptilian entities, I would suggest for this reason: they can come into our reality which is vibrationally not totally compatible with them, therefore they can't stay too long before they get dismantled, vibrationally, badly affected, but one way they can stay longer is by drinking human blood.

Because human blood, again if you take it from the holographic – which we see is red stuff going through veins – you bring it into this metaphysical-universe level, it's again: information. It's a vibrational state. And by consuming human blood, it carries the human genetic code, therefore – metaphysical universe – vibrational code, and it allows them to stay in this reality for longer.

And so this is one reason, there will be others but this is one reason why where you follow these bloodlines through etc. you eventually hit things like pedophilia and you hit satanism, human sacrifice. Human sacrifice to whom? The gods! The reptilian gods who feed off that energy of terror and fear etc., which a satanic human sacrifice systematically builds up in the way it's done.

Another thing is that within… visible light, within our frequency range, whatever you want to call it – electromagnetic spectrum, when these entities are within that reality, they eat humans like we eat cattle, sheep and animals. And this is again a theme going right back in the ancient world, of the reptilians eating humans, sacrifices to the gods, and all the rest of it. But when they're outside of this reality, in their own vibrational reality, they are feeding off our energy, they're “vampiring” off our energetic state.

Now, if I'm gonna vampire an energy source, that energy source must be within the frequency range that I can connect with. If it's radio 1 and I'm radio 2, I ain't gonna vampire that, I have to make that connection. And so what they've done is structure society to keep humanity – this is not the only reason they've done this, they've done it to keep us in the Moon Matrix frequency range, which operates for the same reason within this same frequency range I'm talking about – they have structured society to generate maximum fear, maximum stress, maximum frustration, maximum anger, maximum conflict.

Because that low-vibrational energy, and wars like World Wars and stuff like that, 9/11s, they generate enormous amounts of human low-vibration emotional energy. They feed off this stuff, and then that power, that sustenance is then recycled back in the control system.

But the reason that when I've investigated almost any, not everyone, but almost any of these major Illuminati names, it's led eventually to satanism and invariably it's led to pedophilia... Why?

Because again, this energetic vampiring. What these pedophiles are, indeed what these elite pedophiles are – like father George Bush and people... I've been naming him for years, and Ted Heath, the former Prime Minister of Britain, and endless bloody others... Appear on CNN and BBC News every day by the way, we're going to have some real shocks when these names come out and they're going to – the reason is, that they are possessed entities. And in the general population, where people do not have famous names but are pedophiles, same principle applies.

You've got the human level, the hybrid, and they're having sex with a child – invariably, it's anal sex, even if it's a girl. Again a common theme. And what is that doing? They're connecting with the child in the area of the base chakra, the base vortex point of the human energy field. While having sex with the child, the possessing entity – just outside of human sight – is drawing that energy out from the child. And there is something for these reptilians about energy before puberty, a child's energy before puberty.

Because as we all know, when you reach puberty there is a dramatic chemical change that takes place. From their point of view, this has an effect on the energy field of the child that they'd rather not have, it's not as pure from their point of view. And when you have this ancient theme, Bill, of sacrifices to the gods, of young virgins... Young virgins is just code for children! They were sacrificing children! And because of this pre-puberty energy.

And so, there is a very clear explanation, once you take this picture on, why so many of the elite people in the banking system, politics, and all these other elite institutions, are both satanists and pedophiles or one of the other – usually kind of both if you go deep enough into it.

And they are feeding off human energy, particularly feeding off the child's energy. And I read a passage in one of the Carlos Castaneda books – after I'd understood all this – where he's quoting his shaman source. Carlos Castaneda books were in the sixties and that kind of period, when he was writing about the teachings of someone called Don Juan Matus, this Central American shaman.

Some people say Don Juan didn't exist. I'll tell you what: if he didn't exist, well, you know, Castaneda was a bloody genius then because what he put in his mouth was unbelievably accurate. And... Don Juan Matus talked about the predators. The predators who came from the distance of the cosmos to take over humanity. And he talks about how they took over the mind of humanity ... direct quote: They gave us their mind.

I say that's how they did it [pointing his finger to the Moon]. That's how they've done it, that's how they're doing it. And he also talked about the fact that these predators targeted the pure energy field of children, and they fed off it so that if you saw the child in its full energetic magnificence, it was a bright shining vibrating field of awareness... What he said was, if you saw the child as it entered adulthood, it would be a tiny, tiny, energy field, with virtually no luminosity. And as he put it: Just enough to live... but no more.

And this is what they're doing, and all these different facets we've talked about today, they all fit. It's a picture. Is there more to know? Are you bloody kidding?! My God, there's a lot more to know! I'm not saying that I am describing everything that there is to know, absolutely not. The rabbit hole goes so deep...

But what we're beginning to do, is get the structure within which it works. And once... When you're putting a jigsaw puzzle together – I find, anyway, not that I've done one for ages but – when you get the frame of the picture in place, all those bits with the straight edges, then you start to see much easier where the other pieces go. And, of course, the more pieces go in, you start to know where this piece goes because now you've got a much better idea of the picture, and that's where we're moving now.

But, my goodness me, have we got some shocks and surprises to come. Well and over above what I've been already talking about today.

BR: What's gonna happen over the next few years?

DI: Well, I say that we're in the cusp between the old-epoch energy and the new epoch. And maybe I could just explain what I mean by how that works.

What I'm saying in the book is that the black holes – which we apparently have one at the center of this galaxy, I'm seeing more and more scientific suppositions at least that that's the same with every galaxy but, we'll see... but, anyway, it fits the picture – that out of the black holes comes the base resonant frequency of this reality, but it's not static, it moves through a cycle, as I'll get to.

This base frequency elicits from the suns information in the form of photons, and basically generates what I call the Cosmic wireless Internet. Just as in this room, if this building has got the wireless Internet, I'd be able to pull it onto a computer without any wires going into the wall and no wires into any circuitry, just the computer would be able to pull a wireless Internet and put a collective reality which anyone else in the whole world can – well, parts of China and other places – can put on that screen in the same way.

And I'm saying that wireless Internet, in our reality, is information encoded in photons coming from the sun. Other things too, I'm not saying it's everything, but certainly that's the basis of it, I would say. And we are decoding that information into this reality. For instance, the energy that the Chinese call Chi, that goes through the meridian lines, the acupuncture meridian network of the body, is photon energy. Photon energy goes through the lay line, meridians line system of the Earth. And it's information, this universe is information.

And it's information decoding information, just as information encoded into a computer decodes information encoded in the software! Information can decode information! [It] just depends how it's programmed... to do, what it's [to] do! Are you a receiver or are you a transmitter, or are you a decoder or are you an encoder? Okay, that's what you are: press enter.

And so this vibration coming from the black holes, this space vibration – and there will be more to know but I'm... can’t put the themes here – as it moves through its cycle of change, before coming back to the original vibration, it's changing the information coming out of the suns in the form of photons. It's changing the information construct. Therefore, we are starting to decode, as it moves through the cycle, different information. And it's this that creates the epochs, that the Indian culture calls “Yugas”, and this circular nature of time.

It's not actually a... it's not actually circular in the sense of... its base construct, which is this information vibration that I talk about. That vibration is happening in the now, the only moment that exists: the now. It doesn't move out of the now, it just vibrates, it's just... the vibration changes in the now.

But as we decode it, and we put this information into sequence etc., we appear to be moving from past through present to future. But actually it's information vibrating in the now, it's just that it changes. And as we decode it our perception is the movement of what we call time.

And because the vibration goes through a cycle, and then comes back to the original vibration, we manifest what I've called in the past the Time Loop. An apparent Time Loop where we move through a period of experience, and then we come round to start again. And these periods are broken up – because of the vibrational change, therefore the information elicited in the form of photons, the wireless internet changing – into epochs.

Some are very suppressed and very limiting, that's an experience for consciousness to have, sometimes they're very expansive, these are the Golden Ages. And we choose, as disembodied awareness, where we want to experience, which of these epochs we want to experience. And because we come in and we experience a certain period as we perceive time, and then leave, then we perceive time as going from past through present to future, but actually if we kept within it, it would come back to the start.

But, of course, it is also being impacted by how those interacting with this Time Loop computer game are also posting their awareness, their experience, their information also onto the Internet. Because the Internet changes as people blog, for instance. So therefore it is an interactive thing, but I would say, this is the base thing, the base foundation. And it is simply a cosmic game … So don't take it too seriously, it's a cosmic game.

And we've been through – humanity – and are in a very challenging period in the cosmic game. But as I have said many times, there's not an AK47 in someone's hand on another dimension saying: Awareness, get in, there, now, or I shoot. We choose to experience this.

Now through the lens of the physical body, when our expansion of consciousness is focused, its attention is focused on one reality – like, we're experiencing this reality now, we think it's physical – then we're trying to understand why we would make this decision or even if anyone could be crazy enough to think we made this decision, of being here now and experiencing this, when the level of our awareness that made the decision was beyond this world and beyond that limitation.

So the experiencing level is trying to work out what's going on when the choice was made by a much higher level of awareness. And the more we expand our consciousness, open our mind, and connect powerfully with this level, the more we understand why we made the choice. Because we have made a choice.

It's like in the Matrix movies where the Oracle says to Neo: You've not come here to make a choice, you've already made the choice, you've come here to understand why you made the choice. And that's what this experiencing level is being challenged to do. I would say that overwhelmingly we made the choice to experience this extraordinary period of transformation from limitation, suppression, control, violence, and all the rest of it – conflict, and see a totally new, expansive, peaceful, loving, multi-level connected reality that is going to follow it.

And I think we chose very well, I think it’s a fascinating time. Don’t let’s take it too seriously, although, you know, there’s a lot of challenges going on, but the more seriously we take it in the next few years – and back to your question about what’s going to happen – the more challenging it will be. If we hold our sense of reality purely in the five senses as the vast majority, [the] overwhelming vast majority have up to this point, through this period, it’s going to be very, very challenging.

But if we go: Hold on a second, I’m not Jones - I’m not Ethel Jones and Charlie Smith, I’m not even David Icke! It’s not... I’m not David Icke – it’s not my name, in the greater scheme of things, it’s the name from my experience at this … time.

So, if we pull our point of observation of this, from I am infinite consciousness and David Icke - Ethel Smith - Charlie Jones is my experience, then coming through this challenging period we’re going into, will be much easier because we’ll have a totally different perspective on what’s happening.

We won’t be sitting at the computer playing a computer game thinking we are the game. We will realize that we are playing the game and therefore it’s just an experience in the great eternity of who we are. This completely changes the point from which we observe challenge, and we observe upsets and we observe things happening that we’d rather not [have] happen, if you don’t mind.

But what I feel, Bill, is we’re now seeing the Truth Vibrations more and more impact upon themselves, on this reality. Not in governments and stuff like that yet, because they are... the fact that they are doing what they are doing, they’re very much more in a dense mind-dominated situation, therefore they’re connected to the old-epoch energy still.

So they’re not getting the Truth Vibrations. So that level of awareness, the control system as we perceive it – the banking system and the politics, and all the rest of it, the military, media ownership – they’re going to be trying to push along this more and more and more control, in the desperation to hold on to what the power they’ve had.

But at the same time, more and more and more people – we’re seeing it, my goodness we see it all over the world; my goodness me, the speed [at which] it’s happening! – more and more people are opening their minds from that density of a lifetime, and they’re connecting with the Truth Vibrations, this new energetic construct, and there they're seeing the world and themselves in a completely different way.

And we’re now at this point where the two are, if you like, not fighting... I hate the word “fighting”. I hate the word “hate”, come to that... Can you hate that word - hate? That’s a bit of a... but you know what I mean. And... but it’s a tussle going on between that which is awakening and that which is trying to stay still. And symbolically it’s like someone standing in a river that’s getting faster and faster going: I ain’t moving! – the control system – and eventually you’re expending so much energy just to stand still, and then you never thought what’s going to happen. If the river starts... keeps going faster and faster, then it’s going to wash you away eventually – that’s the control system going.

But if we get on the air bed or the canoe, and we go down the white water ride –which is going to be for a few years – then you know we can... it can be an adventure, because it’s just an experience: we are all that is, has been and ever will be – having an experience. I don’t care if you’re sweeping the streets or you’re sitting here talking like me, or you’re driving a bus or... I don’t know, running a bank! It’s experience!

We are all infinite consciousness, infinite possibility. And if we observe what’s happening now and what’s coming from this perspective, it’ll [be] a whole lot bloody easier, a whole lot smoother. But the time as we move through... I think 2012 is a ... it’s not a total, ah, diversion, but I think it is a diversion. It’s a diversion in which people are focusing on that year, and when you focus on something like that, the control system can manipulate to pull you in.

Maybe they've got some events planned to focus people in: Oh it’s 2012! Oh... – that stuff. But it’s significant, 2012, in the sense that it’s not 2011. Because this vibrational change is getting more and more powerful, more and more impacting on human perception, and it will be more impacting in 2011, more impacting in 2012, but more impacting in 2013, more in 2014, and eventually there’s a tipping point.

And there’s a tipping point where irresistible force – control system, thinks it is but isn’t. ... Put it another way [laughs]: immovable object, control system [laughs] – thinks it is but isn’t; Irresistible force [motions a higher plane], Truth Vibrations – which is. And we’re seeing this happen [motions the two forces tipping]. We’re seeing it happen now, we’re seeing it happen more and more and more.

And they're going [to] come [to] a point, not tomorrow but not too many years from now either, where that’s going to happen [motions final overturn]. And from that point, the dominating, energetic, information, awareness construct of this reality is going to be the Truth Vibrations. And that’s going to go off through our children and grandchildren’s lives.

And by the end of their lives, which will be much longer because of the energetic change that they’re going to experience compared with this Schism – which is one of the reasons that human … lives kind of plummeted... I mean, when they talk in the ancient world about people living massively long lives: they used to! They’re not kidding – because the energetic situation they were experiencing was different.

So when our children and grandchildren get to the end of their lives, you and me are going to be looking in, disembodied, from another level of reality, and we’re gonna go [claps his hands three times]: Job done. And that’s why we’re here. So... [cheerful, to the camera]: Let’s get on with it, shall we?!

BR: That’s a beautiful, beautiful summary. [They laugh] At, round about the same time as we’re releasing this movie, we’re going to be releasing a wonderful ad hoc conversation that you had with Jordan Maxwell...

DI: Jordan, yeah.

BR: …and Jordan was presenting a viewpoint that is valid – I think you and I would agree with that – that there is actually a military operation going on here, between so-called good forces and so-called bad forces, and many people are caught in the crossfire or they’re pawns on the chess board or whatever metaphor you want to use and whatever role we might consider ourselves to be is somewhere in that mix.

And Jordan, bless him, was focused on that solid reality of this battlefield and saying: You know what, we are all going to get full of bullet holes if we don’t watch out and we’re in deep trouble. And I wondered if you could speak to that because there are some people, many people watching this video who still think, You know what? We are in trouble because they are really doing this stuff. And I know that you... and therefore we have to be rescued by forces who are as strong as the so-called dark side who are trying to manipulate us and control us for reasons of their own.

You’ve spoken to this to some degree, quite some degree, in this conversation that we’ve been having now. Could you say a little bit more about this crucial point about why is it that this tipping point could occur without the entire world of seven billion people picking up arms and rioting in the streets, because that’s not the answer, is it?

DI: Well, if you think about the energetic construct that we’ve had through this period, the response to danger, the response to attack has been: Give them what they’re giving you. And we call it war, we call it rioting and all the rest of it. Where has it got us? Nowhere, what you fight you become. You know if you think that meeting aggression with more aggression is gonna take us forward, what do you... if you meet aggression with aggression what are you gonna get? Twice the aggression! Oh we’ve moved on now, haven’t we, eh, the world’s a better place!

And this is why when I see things like riots over economies and stuff like that – like we’ve seen in Greece and other places, and we’ll see more, no doubt – it’s such a ... it’s such a confirmation of ignorance of the way things are, you know, we get pulled into low-vibrational states by this feeling that we need to FIGHT! WE MUST FIGHT FOR PEACE! I love that one...

- Let’s pepper bomb Bagdad and bring peace shall we?!

- You idiot! You’re a politician, aren’t you? Yeah, I thought you were, yeah. … It brings us into low-vibrational states, and it brings us into the very vibrational stadium on which the control system wants us to be. And when you think about it, even on the physical level, they’re not bothered about rioting; in fact it’s a good thing from their point of view because they can then – problem, reaction, solution – justify greater impositions of the control system in terms of violence, and SWAT teams, and armed police and bringing the military on the streets, you know: Thank you very much! You’ve just given us what we need to justify this.

And they’re not frightened of protests either. You know, in the run-up to the Iraq war we had – it was estimated – a million people on the streets of London. What happened? They invaded Iraq! They.. You know... Oh I've done my bit protesting. And then, you know, you can protest and you can feel good about yourself: I've bloody told them! At least I protested. Let’s go down to the pub and have a chat about how good it was! And then what we can do then, is we can, later, we can put the tele[vision] on and watch them invade the country we've just protested against them invading – you know.

What they’re terrified of is not violence, it’s not rioting, it’s not protest in the streets – I'm not saying don't have one, but they’re not frightened of them. What they’re frightened of is non-cooperation, because we’ve got to come back to this thing all the time of numbers. The number of people who are in full knowledge – in physical reality as we call it, and in the control system in the non-human realms – the number of them involved in full awareness of what they’re doing, compared with the global population of seven billion, is tiny.

I mean, my estimate over the years... I’ve had a few inklings here and there to kind of push me in this direction, is that these hybrid bloodlines – and not all of these will be in awareness of who they are, they might be manipulated to act and think in a certain way but they’re not aware that that’s what’s happening; they think they’re making their own decisions, unpleasant as they may be – it’s about four or five percent of the population.

So when you look at that, you know I think I see a way out of this, you know. You look at China, it’s a wonderful example. China in many ways, Bill, is a blueprint for the global society, where you’ve got the serfs and the slaves and then you’ve got the control system and there’s no freedom, and information is edited, censored on the internet – all that stuff, we know what China is like. And then you look at the numbers.

I mean, I don’t know was it anything between one point five maybe over two billion now or more people in China. Massive numbers whatever they are, incredibly big numbers. The number of people controlling those vast numbers is tiny!! We saw a man, we saw a man – wonderful what he did – standing in front of the tank, tank man, famous, famous, picture. Of course, it made a great picture, it made: Oh what a brave man, isn’t it wonderful? – and then he probably disappeared and never to be seen again. What if there was a million people in front of them tanks?!

What if we... When large numbers of people are foreclosed because the banks have caused an economic situation where people lose their jobs because companies go bust and then the banks who’ve caused the problem come along and say, You’ve got to get out of your house because we’re foreclosing on you. I mean excuse me! What are we doing leaving our houses when the people throwing us out are the people that caused the situation that means we can’t pay the mortgage so that’s why we’re being thrown out?! Look at that cycle!

And we, as a human race, in the vast numbers that we are, are walking away?!

You know, part of this Moon Matrix thing, part of this Moon Matrix hive-mind, is to... and this is another aspect, I mean, you know, brain scientists will tell you, this is another aspect of the reptilian brain behavior system: it’s that it knows its place. The reptilian brain is very, very hierarchical. I mean you’ve got the top of the hierarchy – reptilian brain – but you’ve also got the bottom of the hierarchy – I know my place. It’s also reptilian brain, just a different expression of it.

This hierarchical structure of top-down power, where the few are at the top and the rest are at the bottom and holding that up there, that’s very much reptilian brain and its fear of authority. I was reading an article, in which someone who was discussing the reptilian brain was saying that people instinctively, many people, anyway, can instinctively feel like intimidation when an authority figure of some kind walks into the room, like the boss or whatever. And they were saying: it comes from the reptilian brain. And, funny enough, about that same time, I was reading an article about a famous British actress who is very, very anti-royal family, doesn’t believe in the institution at all. And she was at some reception, and she actually said in this article: I’m anti-royal family and all the rest of it, she said. Then the Queen came into our group to say hello, she said, and I was a blithering, bloody wreck. You know, like of intimidation: Oh it’s the Queen! And this is the woman who, in another situation, would be absolutely Oh the bloody Queen! We shouldn’t have a royal institution and all that stuff. That’s the reptilian brain kicking in, that’s what I mean.

And what it does, it makes vast numbers of people acquiescent to authority. And when the populations in general are acquiescent or fearful of challenging authority, then the authority by definition is: Ah... ok. Control system in place.

And, one of the great manifestations of this is, You mustn’t break the law. Well, okay, let’s follow this through, shall we? These guys in dark suits etc. are making laws which you have no control over. Yeah, okay. So then they’ve made laws that you have no control over, but you’re saying it’s the law so you must obey it. Yeah, well ... where do we go from here then?! I’ll tell you what we’ll do: you put your hands out and I’ll put the handcuffs on, and then we’ll go down to the pub – because that’s what you’re saying.

So, if a law does not respect human freedom, if it does not respect human justice, if it does not respect basic fairness, if it’s not about beneficial changes in society but about imposition so the few can control the many; if it does not respect freedom and justice, it should not be respected! What are we doing?

When you say to people: Can’t break the law... Okay, are we going... Actually we're getting close to this now if you look at the situation that’s unfolding – I’ve done a whole chapter in the book called Stealing the Children. What if they changed, they made a law that the state could take your children away – which is what they actually want, they’re in the process of doing it – would you obey it? Well, no. Oh, so we... Aah, we've found a line here now.

There is a Rubicon then, that you will cross, when the law gets so much of an imposition that it takes your children away. So all we’ve got to look at is: are we going to make that line where we resist? NO MORE! At the point where – knock on the door – [We] want your children please, [we’ve] got the van...

Or are we gonna move it here, where we’re saying: Anything that impacts on my basic freedom, and the basic freedom of others; anything that impacts injustice on my life and [the] life of others... because, if we think other people’s problems are not our problem, that’s divide and rule and away we go, they’ve got us.

If we move that here and say: No more!, then the whole dynamic starts to change.

Because what they’re doing all over the world, not least in Britain, is they’re quite demonstrably introducing more and more outrageous laws right across society down into the fine detail of our lives, whether it’s where we put out our rubbish bins out and when and all the rest of it. And, if they don’t meet resistance, then they say: No resistance? Okay. Even more silly, even more imposition, even more fine detail of your life. No resistance? Even more!

So, ladies and gentlemen, we have got to start very soon – like how about yesterday – putting a line, collectively coming together, where we put aside this... these fault lines – manufactured, divide and rule fault lines – of religion and race and income bracket and country, and breeding and all this “shite”, and we come together and unite under what we are all fundamentally affected by – and that’s the destruction of human freedom.

Because this is not a conspiracy to enslave Jewish people or Islamic people or middle class Americans, or any of it! South Africans or anything. It’s a plot to enslave us all. And if we don’t come together, [if] we allow ourselves to be divided and ruled, then, you know, the epoch’s changing, anyway, but the nature of the change is going to be far more challenging than, and far more unpleasant than it needs to be if we come together now, and say: Here and bloody no further.

Because when we do that, we produce that resistance, then the movement of this control system deeper and deeper into our lives must stop! But we’re not resisting it! We’re moaning about it! Some people are resisting it, but we’re moaning about it: Oh big brother, oh my goodness me, what’s the country coming to? … What’s on tele[vision] honey? And that’s it!

And the thing is, it’s not “Big Brother” that’s bringing the control system in. It’s “little me” allowing it to be brought in! Big Brother is impotent without a mass perception of little me. … And I’m unanimous in this! [laughs].

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Bill Ryan

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