Jane Bürgermeister II - an Update :
Whatever Happened to the Swine Flu?

February 2010

**Ed note: Some transcripts contain words or phrases that are inaudible or difficult to hear and are, therefore, designated in square brackets.**

JANE BURGERMEISTER (JB): I’m just wondering what points you think I should stress. I mean… Paul Flynn's report…? Or should I summarize what's happened?

BILL RYAN (BR): Well...

JB: What would be interesting?

BR: It'll be a conversation.

JB: Right.

BR: I'm going to ask you to summarize what's happened since the last time we talked to you. See… because this is an update…

JB: Right.

BR: And when I met you, it was in October.

JB: Yeah. I think it was September or October. Yeah, I think it was...

BR: No, it wasn't. It was September. That's right.

JB: Yeah… September...

BR: It was September. Yeah, it was September.

JB: Hmm.

BR: So there is quite a lot of water under the bridge since September.

JB: Yeah… right.

BR: And this whole thing seems to have evaporated. It’s just like... It’s not in the news. No one's talking about it. All the people who were really talking about it a lot on the Internet… that’s all kind of... that's all evaporated, too. And everyone's thinking: What was that all about?

JB: Hmm…

BR: And so, I'd like to ask you: What was that all about? What have we all learned? What do you think happened? What's the optimistic message for us all?

JB: Hmm…

BR: And then a personal note about what your personal plans are... because I think you've got a lot of people out there who really love you. And they want to know what you're up to, what you're thinking, and what's next. It's a chance to talk about the book and, you know...

JB: I'm off to my Greek island. [laughs]

BR: Off to your Greek island?

JB: Yes.

BR: Yes, exactly. So...

JB: Okay.

BR: Let's make a start here. And I don't even know what date it is. It's the 15th, isn't it?

JB: Yes, the 15th.

BR: Right. So here we go.

Start of interview

BR: So this is Bill Ryan from Project Camelot and Project Avalon, and it is the 15th of February, 2010.

I'm in a very rustic farmhouse in the middle of Switzerland here, which is where Jane Burgermeister has been staying in her bed-and-breakfast, having given a presentation to the Zurich Ground Crew yesterday. We're surrounded by snow. There's an enormous cowbell just behind Jane's head here, on the right of the camera. It's all very idyllic and very quaint.

This is a short interview to catch up with you, Jane, to ask you, since we spoke with you last… which was in September of last year (feels like a long time ago)... from your perspective, what's happened with you and what's happened to the Swine Flu?

JB: Well, the Swine Flu has fortunately disappeared. It's no longer in the newspapers. It's no longer in the media. People are no longer being driven or encouraged to take the vaccine to the same degree as a few months ago when it was omnipresent in our lives.

Very few people have taken the vaccine in Europe... I think 30-million out of 450-million, or whatever… So, a much smaller proportion than the governments had hoped.

In France, they wanted to vaccinate 100% of the population by the end of January, and I think only 6% took it there. Six or seven percent took it in Germany and in the UK, and so on… and also in countries like Switzerland. I think 60-million people took it in the U.S.A., according to the figures of the CDC. Again… maybe quite a small portion of the total population of… 400-million… is it?… in the U.S.A.?

So we have seen an incredible awakening among people.

They have become aware that the vaccination was more dangerous than the virus… that it contains toxic ingredients – mercury and squalene… and they have passed on that information and shared it around with their friends and their colleagues, and people have not gone and taken this vaccination. They have not given in to fear. They have not allowed themselves to be manipulated into taking something that is actually more dangerous than the actual virus.

This has been achieved through the use of the communication-information technology, through the e-mail, through YouTube, through interviews like yours. So I think it's a tremendous event we’ve experienced where ordinary people have decided to think for themselves, think critically, examine the facts, and not just follow “authorities”, governments, or newspapers and take some vaccine for a non-existent threat.

BR: Yeah. It's nice to have a real victory for a worldwide grassroots movement, isn't it? This is what it is.

JB: Absolutely! Even the World Health Organization Director-General, Dr. Chan, said at the executive board meeting on January 18th that they didn't anticipate that people wouldn't take the vaccination. They'd invested billions in propaganda and the controlled media was hyping this virus.

So this was really an unexpected victory. And it was due to every single person who spread that information… who took the time and trouble to read about it, to maybe tell their friends, their colleagues and other members of their family.

So what it has revealed, to my mind, is the extraordinary intelligence and solidarity of people out there – that they do care about their neighbors, their friends. They were willing to pass on this information. And though it was quite difficult to grasp and quite unpleasant to grasp, they were willing to take the trouble to look at the facts and get to the truth in many, many cases.

BR: So you're not just talking about people who for many years may have done a lot of research into secret government plans on the internet. You're talking about regular people waking up, looking at the information in front of them, taking stock, acting intelligently, and realizing what was happening.

JB: I think that is what we're seeing. We're seeing a completely new scale of awareness among… you know, the ordinary people… that we have a big problem with our governments.

I was just talking to somebody yesterday who said that her mother, who's about 60 years old, has always taken every single vaccine and believed that the governments were representing the interests of the people. But when it came to the Swine Flu vaccine, she looked at the facts and decided not to take it.

And slowly she's becoming aware that the government that is giving this vaccine doesn't have the interests of its people at heart, and is beginning to ask questions about: Why are they doing this? Who's behind it? You know… What is their motivation?

So, I think we’re seeing in Europe a huge awakening to the fact that we have a big problem. We have a shadow government. We have an international corporate crime syndicate… as I call it… who are controlling governments, health ministries, and pushing this poison onto populations.

BR: And the governments have got an interesting problem on the other side because they've got a population now that isn't necessarily going to be willing to take things at face value anymore.

JB: That is something that Dr. Margaret Chan of the World Health Organization herself said. She said: We can no longer assume that when we say a medicine or drug is to be recommended… that people will actually take it.

There's been a tremendous collapse in demand for vaccines among the people in Germany and France, and I'm sure also in America… even when it comes to vaccinating their young children against mumps… as a result of the skepticism that has surrounded this whole Swine Flu campaign.

We have seen the beginning of a tremendous increase in interest in homeopathic remedies and vitamins, and the importance of good, nourishing food; and a much more critical attitude towards government, as you mentioned.

BR: Now, many people will be watching this in America. They may not be aware… but what happened in Poland with the Health Minister there? That’s a fascinating development, isn't it?

JB: That was a key development, because the Health Minister in Poland, Ewa Kopacz, is actually a doctor… a family doctor… and she looked at this Swine Flu vaccine. She saw that it was not adequately tested and she decided not to order the Swine Flu vaccines for the Polish people on the basis of the fact that it could be dangerous… potentially dangerous… to them.

She was the only health minister of all the health ministers in Europe who made that decision – even though, if you looked at the facts soberly, objectively, you would think every single health minister would've decided not to… you know… purchase the Swine Flu vaccine.

Her decision not to purchase the vaccine was a turning point, I think, in the campaign. It was quite widely publicized and it made people aware that there are responsible politicians and doctors who recognize there's a problem with this vaccine.

BR: So what happens next, from the government's point of view… if there really is a Machiavellian plan here? What happens next from the point of view of all the activists all over the world who have worked so hard for six to nine months to make sure that something nasty, really nasty, didn't happen? And what happens next with the virus? Are we going to see it again at all?

JB: Well... I personally don't think we're going to see the virus.

We do know that there are scientists working on trying to make the Swine Flu more lethal. It seems that whoever released this virus didn’t quite understand it… didn’t understand that it wasn’t going to bury itself in peoples’ lungs and become much more virulent… and that scientists like Bruno Lina at INSERM-Lyon, who’s affiliated with WHO, are trying to make it more lethal by combining it with the bird flu.

However, many people say there are many government documents which indicate that the only way they can get a lot of people infected with this virus is by vaccinating them. And if people refuse the vaccines, then this virus is just not going to happen and spread, however much they hype it. If people refuse to take the vaccines, then it's not going to become a major problem.

When it comes to the next steps of how we can begin to deal with what's happened, there is an inquiry under way at the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly. Paul Flynn, who's an MP from Newport West in Wales, has been given the task of preparing a report called Swine Flu Pandemic: The Pandemic Level Six Declaration... whether it was merited, or whether pharmaceutical companies influenced the World Health Organization to make this declaration so that they could then sell these gigantic quantities of vaccine at a huge profit…

BR: So we’ve got a kind of "Flu-gate" here.

JB: We have Flu-gate. And this report is due to be finished in June. Paul Flynn indicated to me he might even look at the Baxter incident as part of his report.

BR: Tell people about the Baxter incident again… for those seeing this for the first time.

JB: Well, in February of last year, about one year ago, Baxter contaminated 72 kilos of vaccine material with the live bird flu virus in their facilities in Orth an der Donau in Austria. And this nearly triggered a global bird flu pandemic.

There are many reasons to think that this was deliberate. The main one is that Biosafety Level 3 regulations have to be used when anybody handles the bird flu virus. And this makes an accidental contamination almost impossible.

I filed charges, and the police started investigating. But they dropped the charges at the end of September… just before the mass vaccination campaign and just before Baxter sought approval for its Celvapan Swine Flu vaccine.

I asked to see the files… to see the basis on which the State Prosecutor of Korneuburg dropped the charges. But I was refused access to the files so I e-mailed Paul Flynn and asked him whether he would look into this matter. He… by virtue of his power as a member of this PACE body… could probably force the State Prosecutor to hand over these files, or even question executives to get to the bottom of this incident.

I think a proper inquiry would most likely show that it was a deliberate attempt by a pharmaceutical company to trigger the very pandemic that they then profit from by being able to sell these pandemic vaccinations in gigantic quantities.

BR: Are you optimistic that the inquiry will really research and publish its findings honestly? Or is there a possibility of a whitewash here?

JB: Well, I think if Paul Flynn simply documents the facts... the facts about how toxic the vaccine is... that it was only given to people because Special Emergency Regulations were in place that allowed these untested vaccines to be administered...

If he documents the facts that we could have been forced to have taken this vaccine under the International Health Regulations… that a military-style management of the pandemic was planned... and, indeed, France came within a few days of martial law in December… Nurses and doctors were requisitioned and forced to give this vaccine to people in vaccine centers.

If he documents all of this as well as the Baxter incident, then that will be enough to create an explosive report which will then be sent to 47 Parliaments in Europe… also to Switzerland, to the Ukraine, to Russia, to the countries that don't belong to the European Union. They will then have to consider this report. And I think if they investigate and look into it, then it could well come to a series of arrests and scandals in each country.

The media… as we know… in the meantime, is totally controlled, of course, by the pharmaceutical banking group… the shadow government.

People like James Murdock, the son of Rupert Murdock, who is… I think… in control of the news corporation's European arm, sits on the board of GlaxoSmithKline, which produces the Pandemrix vaccine. Thomas Glocer, the CEO of Reuters, sits on the board of Merck. So the media will not be telling us about all these dramatic developments, these investigations or whatever.

But behind the media screen we could see tremendous numbers of arrests, and renewal and changes in our government on an unprecedented scale, because the facts alone are so shocking. So a lot will depend on what Paul Flynn includes in his report.

BR: Are you in on-going dialogue with him? Or did you just present him with a bunch of facts and now you're leaving it all to him?

JB: Yes. All I did was send him an e-mail pointing out this aspect of the whole pandemic event…that there was a pharmaceutical company literally brewing a bad flu pandemic which would have been much more lethal than a Swine Flu pandemic. And I left it to him.

I mean… I'm sure he's going to do his job as impartially as possible. He's going to be under tremendous pressure to leave out facts concerning the toxicity of squalene and mercury. So we'll just have to try and keep the awareness there among the general public... to mobilize support and make sure that there isn't a whitewash. Yeah.

BR: And what are your personal plans now? Would you still call yourself an activist? Or are you sitting back and thinking: Well, we won that one and now I can go on to the rest of my life.

JB: Unfortunately, I don't think we've reached that stage. WHO has said it wants to keep the Pandemic Level Six Emergency for two more years. That means that as long as this Pandemic Level Emergency Six is in place, it can issue drugs that are untested to people. So we can be getting more kinds of drugs now that haven't been adequately tested. It can take control of the health services and the military and the police in our countries and create this sort of... cement the shadow government's infrastructure.

So apart from all of this, this shadow group is also involved in the Climate-gate scandal and the financial crisis. It’s trying to instigate wars… famines… sending these vaccines to the developing world.

So we can't just… you know… say: It’s all over. It isn't.

A huge victory has been accomplished, but we need to go a little bit further and see to it that the report that Paul Flynn produces is a good one… that countries hold their inquiries… and that the people who are responsible for this are actually put in jail. The French are holding a parliamentary inquiry in the next few weeks, as well. So that’s another opportunity in France to really get to the bottom of this and to put the people responsible in jail.

And if we get those people into the courts, then we should be able to dismantle a large part of this New World Order government… you know.

So I myself plan to write a book in the next couple of months, summarizing what has happened… the main areas that have to be looked at: The toxicity of the vaccine; the lack of pharmacopic vigilance; the monitoring of what happens to people who have taken this vaccine; the militarization of the management of the pandemic emergency under the International Health Regulations.

I’ve already completed one chapter. You can download it on my website: So that's what I'm going to be doing in the next few months. And then, just following what happens with this report… you know… how it's handled with trying to make sure that we really bring the people responsible for this to account.

BR: What kind of feedback have you had from around the world? Because you've been very much of an icon in this grassroots movement. I know that was never your intention, but you've become an icon. What's it been like, suddenly becoming so well known all over the world?

JB: Well, I have to honestly say I've been quite busy because I was doing the website and giving talks and so on. So I haven't really had time to reflect on that side of things.

For me, the most amazing thing has been the number of people who were willing to get involved. In every single country, groups appeared. People were willing to pass on this information, set up websites, set up blogs, go out into the streets and hand out leaflets. Hundreds of people here in Switzerland were involved. I think I mentioned Menschenverstand Schweiz set up a blog. [ ]

So it really is a grassroots movement. Maybe I was perhaps one of the first people to… you know… present this sort of information as a whole. But there have been so many people involved in this... doctors like Dr. Rebecca Carley in the U.S.A., Doctor Joseph Mercola, Dr. Robin Falkov… that I think we can really say this was a genuine grassroots movement.

This was a victory and success achieved by ordinary people all over the world… acting according to their conscience, taking the time and trouble to get informed and to inform others. This is the amazing thing to see… the good will and the intelligence of so many people at work.

BR: This is a message, then, of optimism and encouragement because this whole thing is not over yet in terms of the controllers’ desire to nail us down, to lock us down, to control us, to restrict our freedom, to restrict our sovereignty. This is probably not over, let me say that... [laughs] Let me say that is a little bit of an understatement!

But what's the message of encouragement and optimism that you see for other people who've been woken up through all of this? And now they may have other things coming at them over the next few years.

JB: Well, I agree with you. The controllers have lots of plans up their sleeves… including, of course, a war. They've been planning a major war… nuclear war… for a long time. But they depend, ultimately, on us being prepared to go along with it.

You know, they fill the media, the airwaves, the TV screens, with catastrophes. They terrorize us, make us fearful… and they depend on us doing certain things out of fear… taking the vaccine, going to fight in the army… whatever.

If people are no longer willing to be driven by fear… if they're willing to stop, to stand, to think for themselves, to be critical, to communicate with their friends, and to say: No, we're not taking this vaccine. We're not going into this army. We're not fighting this war. We're not allowing this famine to occur. We’re not allowing this corruption to continue… and if they begin then unraveling the whole infrastructure with inquiries, investigations, and so on… then I think that they cannot continue with their plans. They do depend on our fear and our ignorance.

BR: And our compliance, to implement these plans...

JB: Yeah.

BR: ...with an enormous number of people in the… let's say the middle professional classes, like the doctors, the nurses. In the military, we're talking about the soldiers and airmen and seamen who would actually be obeying orders to cause an enormous amount of damage on the human race if they just followed those orders… right?

JB: Absolutely. And one of the most interesting things was to see with the Swine Flu campaign that the German army was among the first to refuse it. Their doctors said: It’s too dangerous for our soldiers.

Yes! And the gendarmes in France who were supposed to be 100% vaccinated under the government plans… whatever… refused to take the vaccine. And they would have been the ones who would been forced to give it to others. Eventually they would have been guarding the vaccine centers and had a bigger role to play if the government had ever moved towards forced vaccination… as would have been necessary if they wanted to accomplish their goal of getting 100% of the people vaccinated.

So, we see in the armies and the police forces… and also, obviously, among the doctors and nurses… the vast majority didn't take, or want to take, this vaccine… a refusal to go along with the whole, you know, campaign. And that was crucial, actually. The nurses and doctors very early on said: We're not taking this vaccination. And that's already where it began to falter.

There were many critical reports in newspapers in Germany, particularly, I think. You know… the leading doctors came out and said on the front page that this is an untested vaccine… also in the Polish media. Much less so, unfortunately, in the UK and Ireland where the grip on the media is much more total. And in the U.S.A. there's hardly a single really major report that was critical of the vaccine.

So… yes. There’s very clear indication that… as you say… the professional classes are refusing to go along with this.

BR: Thank you very much, Jane. Is there anything else here that you'd like... just as a message… just as a brief update… just 20 minutes or so for the people who've been intrigued about your role in this activism since we published our video in September? It's been seen by 300,000 people I think. The number's growing every day… still.

It's basically the opportunity for a message to them… a message about how they can take this forward because we're not trying to create an organization here. We're trying to empower other people to take whatever action… to express whatever views they feel that they should, and to have the courage to do that as we move forward… right?

JB: Yes. I mean… I think that the internet, the new communication and information technologies… are providing people with a tremendous possibility to become informed about what's going on and to take action and communicate it.

I think we're moving into a new era… I believe… of personal sovereignty where people take responsibility for their lives, get involved again in political decisions and economic decisions, and work together towards shaping a much better world.

And this will be possible as soon as we just remove this shadow government… whatever… from power. Within one or two years, we could see a completely new era starting where people once more can live in dignity and freedom, in peace and prosperity. There's no need for anybody on our planet to be hungry, to be in need, to be oppressed. This vision of a truly peaceful, prosperous, free globe is within our reach… I believe.

BR: That’s absolutely wonderful. Thank you. That’s a beautiful closing statement. Okay! So, Jane Burgermeister, let's catch up with you again later on this year, and we'll see how things are rolling on.

I share your view that this optimism is well-placed. I think we need to stay vigilant. And there's a massive opportunity to learn from a very successful experience from a grassroots movement. And you've played a huge part in empowering and motivating and fueling all of that. And so, I want to thank you for that because you've done an enormous amount for the human race here.

JB: And I'd like to thank you too, Bill, for all you've done to help get this message across. So… thank you.

BR: All right. [laughs]

[End of interview; conversation continues as an audio recording]

JB: Okay. So... we're finished?

BR: That was great!

JB: Okay, great. That was quite painless.

BR: And now I can see that you very, very intelligently moved out of the way of the camera [Jane laughs] so we don't capture any more out-takes. [laughter]

JB: I mean, do you want to sit there with a little...

BR: No, no, no, no, no, no, no! No. It’s not my role here.

JB: Okay. Well, that was... that was quite painless.

BR: That was beautiful. That was a good job.

JB: Yeah.

BR: Thank you so much.

JB: Considering we're freezing… you know?

BR: A lot of people will appreciate that. Now we can get warm.

JB: Yes.

BR: Okay… beautiful, Jane. Hey, thank you.

JB: Okay.

BR: Thank you.

JB: Yes, thanks to you, Bill… because really… you know, without your video... That really started kicking the whole thing into place. I feel it made a big, big difference… really.

BR: Well, working as... we're all working as a huge... It’s an international global team...

JB: Yeah.

BR: ...with people who we'll never know… we'll never meet,… we'll never know their names.

JB: Yes.

BR: And we've all been working together on this all over the world.

JB: Yeah.

BR: This is the human race here.

JB: Yeah… and this is what I think is so fantastic. It really is a joint effort. It really was people getting together… people like Goya [a friend] going out and handing out leaflets… and Ruth… and a tremendous amount of individuals getting active and sharing all their goodness, to be honest… because it’s a...

BR: Yeah. I was amazed at the personal energy...

JB: Yeah.

BR: you said, just regular people… just leafleting, talking to people in the streets, doing what they could…

JB: Yeah.

BR: E-mailing their friends...

JB: Yeah! And you have to bear in mind that this was a very unpleasant topic, so normally people just don't want to hear about these things. They just switch off. And they didn't. They actually were willing to look at what were really very ghastly facts, and… you know… face them and pass them on.

BR: Face them and deal with them.

JB: Yeah.

BR: And I agree with that completely. This is what gives me so much hope… the fact that it's not just the so-called “usual suspects” who got up and started saying things on the internet. It was people who'd never said anything before about anything...

JB: Yes, yes...

BR: ...suddenly started to become active.

JB: Yes. I was talking to Christian Cotton in France on the TV – on the phone – and he said in all his 20 years of activity on the internet in France, he's never seen anything like it… since June when the Swine Flu began to be debated in France. It’s galvanized the internet and created a new internet community, more or less, in France. He said he’s never seen so much debate about a vaccine in his life.

I think France has been transformed by this because before that they didn't really have so much of an alternative media in the internet community. And now they've created one over this issue. And there is, I think, one video where just a few doctors gave their views on the vaccine. Marc Girard also had almost a million views or something like that. You know? So it's a huge thing... yeah.

BR: That's... yeah. If one really looks at the numbers of all the people who've become active all over the world who weren't active before… and if you look at that as a kind of statistical spike… you can see this wake-up all over the world visually.

JB: Yes, yeah.

BR: You can see it visually and statistically that people are saying: Wait a minute. What's going on here? I thought they were telling us the truth, but they're not. You know?

JB: Yes. And even Sandra yesterday was saying her mum for the first time didn't take this vaccine, and for the first time began to ask herself: What's going on here? That’s, you know, exactly what's been happening.

BR: Yes.

JB: But every generation has been willing to take this information onboard. I'm pleased to say that apparently in Germany and France… or wherever… parents are not giving their kids the vaccines automatically anymore. They're taking the time and trouble to find out what's in them.

BR: Right.

JB: And deciding not to vaccinate. This is obviously causing a major crisis now to the whole pharmaceutical infrastructure. I think it could even be the end of it.

BR: Yeah. And the spin-off from this is that one doesn't even have to believe in Machiavellian plans that they're trying to kill us all… and all kinds of other enormous scenarios that are very probably true and which are also very hard to believe.

JB: Hmm.

BR: But the fact that the vaccines are damaging… and the rates of autism are soaring… and all the problems to do with the side-effects which have been there for years… and suddenly now this is in the spotlight, as well.

JB: Hmm, yes, yes, yes.

BR: And, of course, that's just a part of the fact that, like many institutions, the medical institution just survives in order to serve itself, really. We are perfectly able to heal ourselves. We're perfectly able to treat ourselves...

JB: Yes, yes.

BR: In most cases…

JB: Yes.

BR: And we're perfectly able to educate ourselves, to feed ourselves, to determine and research our own spirituality. And we don't need institutions and “authorities” to do this for us. So that's also an example for how real autonomy can be returning to the people, in terms of restoring their sovereignty… which is what you said at the very end there.

JB: Yeah. I really think that's the way forward. I was speaking to this Irish guy on the radio, and he was telling me about the personal sovereignty movement in Ireland. And it actually has a foundation in the constitution… that they're allowed when they go into court to say things like: I absolve you, Court, of your duty… or whatever. Under the constitution, they… as a sovereign person… have the right to absolve the court and the government!

So now they're waiting for the opportunity to go out there and absolve the government. And the Swine Flu vaccine scandal could be that opportunity.

If it goes eventually into the Irish parliament… and there's such an overwhelming evidence that huge numbers of people have been damaged through this because I think a large portion of the Irish took it… then this could be the point where enough people get together and say: We absolve the whole government of its responsibility; we're reconstituting a new government. And they can do this under the constitution of Ireland!

BR: That is something which I didn't know about.

JB: Yeah, yeah.

BR: That's very, very interesting.

JB: Yeah. They don't even want people to know that you, as a sovereign person under these constitutions, have all this power.

BR: Yes. You have power and rights and ways to do things… and they don't want you to know.

JB: Yeah.

BR: Yeah, yeah.

JB: I was amazed at... He was explaining, you know, that you can actually... There was this guy who was due to get a fine in court, and he said… according to the formula that you have to lawfully say it... he said: I absolve you, as a free sovereign person… the Court of its duty to... blah-blah-blah. And the court had to dissolve and the judge couldn't give him the fine.

BR: It's like saying magic words.

JB: Yes!

BR: And suddenly the guy walks out of the door.

JB: Yes! [Bill laughs] …because ultimately they are…

BR: That's wonderful!

JB: ...constituted by our giving them the authority. And if we rescind that authority, they have no rights.

BR: Yes.

JB: And I think the government's terrified of this little group of people and all that’s going on behind. They're spreading the word that you as a sovereign person can dissolve the whole government [laughs] you know... that kind of thing.

BR: So it's like a legal constitutional way of saying: I withdraw my approval and agreement from this whole thing that's happening around me here.

JB: Yes. Apparently, under the constitution, you as an individual are the sovereign decider. You give power to the courts. You give power to the government. And you can legally withdraw the power you've given to the courts and you can withdraw it from the government. You have to say a certain formula that means that you have dissolved this entity. So, it's not above you. It's actually below you according to the Irish constitution. You can dissolve it if it no longer serves your purpose.

BR: That's... that's... that's an inspiration.

JB: And the other thing is that the governments in Europe are actually corporations. Like the Irish government… and whatever… are actually corporations listed on some stock exchange. I mean… I haven’t looked into this, but that means they are also liable for all the debts… huge debts now because the government has taken onboard all the Anglo-Irish debts just to get the country into debt and get it bankrupt. Then they can… you know, with all this money that they get from the taxpayers, banks like Anglo Irish Bank can buy up everything.

BR: It's all about centralization of assets.

JB: Yes, it is. Yeah.

BR: Yeah, absolutely.

JB: But apparently, legally they're a corporation, and they're only liable for their debts. So the people of Ireland can legally get together and say… you know: We don't accept any of these debts, because you, the government, are not the same as us, the people. We are the sovereign people, and you, the government, had a role to play as long as we allowed you to play that role. This is the role you gave yourself. You're liable for the debts and we have nothing more to do with you.

BR: [laughs]

JB: This is the perfect solution! And then… as for the future… we were thinking that apparently under the sovereign Irish principle, everybody's entitled to the land. You know there's no reason why you can't have part of the land.

So, you have to be responsible. It's not a license to… you know… be kind of greedy or anything like that. You're expected to be responsible. But it does mean things like people who are homeless can, in theory... are allowed to choose maybe a little patch of land. And I think that they have to build a solid house because with this comes responsibility to your community. They could build… say, a wooden house… or with the help of the neighbors. And then this may be powered by renewable energy.

These things are all possible under the Irish constitution.

Oh, he was telling me another anecdote. This guy was about to be thrown out of his house because he'd lost his job and he couldn't keep his mortgage payments up, and the bank was harassing him and so on.

Under the Irish constitution, the sheriff is responsible for keeping the peace, which means that he also is responsible for insuring that banks don't throw people out of their homes when it's winter… or whatever… because they've lost their jobs. Because the concept of peace is much wider than merely profit… you know… or exactness of contracts.

So they’ve got this little clause… something which said: I call on the sheriff for my protection and to keep the peace in our shire because I'm about to be thrown out of my home by the bank. And this obliged the sheriff to protect this man from being thrown out of his home because he’d lost his job.

And see… the bank, after that, stopped demanding the mortgage payments. He's living in the home now.

BR: Where was this?

JB: This was somewhere in Ireland.

BR: In Ireland. This is all happening in Ireland.

JB: Yeah. And within this whole county or shire where the sheriff has his jurisdiction, nobody since then has been thrown out of their home as a result of losing their job and, you know, having to pay back the mortgage payments.

BR: Wow! There are a whole bunch of people in America who need to check that out.

JB: Well, even… I would say the whole world!

BR: Yeah.

JB: Yeah. There's Scotland and the U. K.

BR: Yes.

JB: You know, Switzerland's in the best shape because they have direct democracy where they vote on issues. They don't have the two-party system.

BR: Yes.

JB: But this could be the way forward. I mean, you know...

BR: That's inspiring.

JB: Yeah.

BR: That's very, very interesting. Yeah. Is this all going to go into your book?

JB: Um...

BR: This sort of broader perspective? Or is it only going to be about the pandemic?

JB: Well, what I was thinking of doing is a second book, you see. The first one will be mainly about the pandemic simply because I wanted to get it finished by a certain date so that it feeds into this whole report process and puts pressure on… to be honest. [laughs]

BR: And that's what people want. And then you can follow it...

JB: Yeah.

BR: ...with a bigger picture.

JB: The second book is... what I was thinking of would be showing our way out of the whole thing with solutions like personal sovereignty, renewable energy, and so on. How we can rebuild our societies, you know… and homeopathy.

So I hope to do that in two months or three months. Part of my trip to Greece would tie in with this because it would bring back all sorts of the ideas of the ancient Greeks, which were very sensible political ideas. I mean, if you read Plato's Republic it's not at all this totalitarian thing it’s made out to be. It's a very sensible model.

And it's also about personal responsibility. Plato keeps saying you can't expect a better political system than you as a human being… as an individual… are… you know. There's a correspondence all the time. And you have to improve as a person – your mind, your feelings and so on. And then you can expect a better political system.

And then my third book, I hope, would be more about spiritual questions… you know… as we move towards 2012. How the sunlight is interacting with our DNA and these sorts of issues… and whether we're coming into this cosmic Second Coming of Christ kind of thing… Christ Consciousness and so on.

BR: Well, we're coming into something. I don't know what it is, but things are changing.

JB: Yeah.

BR: I mean, we see the symptoms all around us.

JB: I personally think we're coming into a very, very good time, you know. But I think it's almost too late for these people to implement their plans because of these changes, you know… that sunlight is pouring down on the planet and boosting this awareness.

Without the fear factor, they can't do it if they're being undermined everywhere… in Climate-gate, in the Iraq War inquiry. Timothy Geithner's almost in jail for his role in… you know, the AIG swindle. It's going to be very difficult for anyone to start World War Three and get away with it. You know?

BR: Um-hm. And they’re really trying to rush this stuff through, using all the force and propaganda and financial pressure that they can come up with. But if that's all they can do against the power of consciousness then, actually, it's all over already.

JB: Yeah.

BR: I mean, in terms of the fact that they haven't got a chance.

JB: I mean, what this revealed is just how deluded these people are. I mean who's sitting there saying we want to keep this on for two years… the Pandemic Level Emergency Six? Actually seriously saying this, you know? At the inquiry at PACE in January, I think the 26th, Dr. Keiji Fukuda actually said that! I mean… everybody was sort of, you know… couldn't believe it.

So they're living in another universe. And they still have the levers and power, unfortunately. And in their delusion they can still wreak a lot of havoc… and maybe start a few nuclear wars, you know. I'm sure they're thinking in these terms.

BR: According to information that we have, they are... they're still trying to do this.

JB: Oh, absolutely!

BR: I don't think they will succeed. I really don't think they will succeed.

JB: Yeah.

BR: But they are trying. It's all building up to quite an interesting sort of... an interesting climax… here.

JB: Yeah.

BR: It's very, very interesting.

JB: What they really need to get going is this war between Israel and Iran, because then they can get Russia and the EU in it… because Russia's given Iran a lot of nuclear weapons and uranium.

I knew somebody in Vienna who worked for the IEA. He was an expert sent in by the American government… and I think these are usually CIA officers, though he didn't tell me this, you know. We just met socially. He was responsible for monitoring the Iran nuclear program...

BR: Hmm.

JB: ...for the American government. And then he went back to Idaho where they have this big nuclear research base and Lockheed Martin… it's all interwoven… who are also working for the government. And I asked him frankly a couple years ago when he came back to Vienna for a conference or trip or whatever… did he think Iran was building a nuclear program for war purposes? And he said: No. He said he didn't think so. He thought it was just a civilian program.

But of course they could be getting missiles, you know, from China. Russia's given them the equipment for their civilian program. And I think they want to get the EU involved. The EU, under the Lisbon Treaty, can now… Technically, in the EU if they declare war, people can be forced to serve in the EU army. Few people know that.

BR: Hmm. I didn't know that.

JB: Oh, it's terrible! With the Lisbon Treaty came conscription.

BR: Really?

JB: Absolutely! This is one of the sticking-points why the Irish voted No the first time around. And they were given the concession that they don't have to serve in the army.

And people are not aware that they could, theoretically, end up having to serve in the EU army. The Lisbon Treaty creates an EU army… creates a general staff and a whole infrastructure for an EU army.

But of course, now we have this commission. And Baroness Ashton is the foreign minister of the EU. If she declares a war, every single foreign minister within the EU is obliged to back her up. It's called the solidarity principle or something like that.

So they're not allowed to say: We don't think this is a real war. We're not bothered, you know. They’re actually obliged legally by the Lisbon Treaty to give their support to her if she says… you know: We're declaring a war. And if she does do that, it is theoretically possible to start conscripting people.

So you just imagine if they set a 9/11… they attack Berlin with a little mini nuclear bomb. They say, you know: Iran did it, and we're in a war situation. They can try and clamp down their totalitarian grid because in the EU Lisbon Treaty, we're in a police state, basically. And then they can start trying to conscript people. Although we're not aware of it, we're sitting on that totalitarian trap in Europe.

But their dilemma is that they've lost all credibility. If they can't get the people to believe the nuke that's gone off in Berlin… or something… is really from Iran… And they can't get enough people to go into the army and obey these laws of the police to arrest people...

BR: Yep.

JB: ...then the whole thing is going to collapse.

BR: Yep.

JB: And I think this is their difficulty.

BR: That is worth paying attention to. And presumably you're finding out about some of this stuff because you've got contacts into Ireland… because you've got Irish blood, haven't you?

JB: Yes. My mother was from Ireland and that's why I was following the Lisbon Treaty. And that's why I knew why the Irish voted against the Lisbon Treaty.

BR: Right, right.

JB: You know… because when they were asked to vote on the Lisbon Treaty, they were not given the actual treaty. They were just given 300 paragraphs which amended other treaties.

BR: Ah... right.

JB: And the EU actually forbade these paragraphs to be printed beside the original treaties. People couldn't see exactly what was being amended.

But the Irish thing... the Irish went out and found all the original treaties, put the amendments beside them and printed their own copies, and then tried to figure out... you know?… because you're just seeing the legal text and small changes in wording to many, many legal paragraphs and text… so you have to figure out what's actually behind all of this here. What are they actually achieving with all these things?

Then they eventually worked out that behind all of this is this totalitarian superstructure with an EU Police and an EU Army allowed to shoot protesters under the current laws. And so, yeah... so that's why they voted No the first time around.

The Irish Police were patrolling the voting stations. So the first time around, every single ballot box was guarded by the police, taken to the polling station by the police, and taken to the counting office by the police. Every ballot that was taken out was being watched by about ten people. And this second vote… there were no police in sight.

BR: Hmm!

JB: The police had vanished. There were ballot boxes disappearing and reappearing… and so on. Now I'm convinced it was a forged vote. I mean, there's no way… I believe… that the Irish had decided to say Yes in that proportion or quantity.

The Irish were the only ones who were allowed to vote on the Lisbon Treaty because under their laws, I think that the judge... There's some clause in their law, or whatever, which says that if there's a treaty that so materially changes their basic civil rights, they have to be allowed to vote on it. And the Lisbon Treaty basically abolishes all Irish civic rights, you know? [laughs] So that's why... this law which would oblige the government to vote on it… because they didn't want to vote on it either. No other country got a vote on it.

BR: Yeah.

JB: You know?

BR: Yes.

JB: I mean... it's shocking! It's disgraceful how these top-level people in Austria… the chancellor and the prime minister… just met behind closed doors, signed the Lisbon Treaty, and didn't even get a parliamentary vote. With this they sold the whole country into slavery.

The other thing the EU-Lisbon Treaty allows is that the EU can actually come in and take your resources. They can take water from a country under the pretext of global warming. They can actually take food, water. They can say: It’s an emergency. The EU needs your rivers, your water, your food... And they can do this under the Lisbon Treaty!

BR: That's so interesting.

JB: Yeah.

BR: It's really interesting in light of what I was talking about yesterday. Actually... that the plans to put these heavy control structures in place... just brick by brick...

JB: They're already there.

BR: And they're still trying to do it.

JB: They're already there. Now, with the Lisbon Treaty, I think they've put the structure in place. And now they face other dilemmas. They can't implement it because the people are not going along with it. So they're not quite sure now: Can we get away with it, or can we not get away with it? If we, you know, get our nuclear bomb going up, will they believe it? But first, they have to build up a plausible lie to get the war starting in Iran and Israel.

BR: Yes.

JB: Then it might be plausible that some Arab terrorist, you know… wants to attack here. And then they have to get some sufficiently gigantic thing going to get people terrified. And then they can't be sure that the people are really going to go along with it.

BR: And the more it drags on, the more behind schedule they’ve become...

JB: Yeah.

BR: ...the more likely they are to make mistakes, the more likely they are to do something that's so crass that people will just see: Wait a minute! Now why are they doing this? You know?

JB: Right. Well, I think the problem with, of course, the Swine Flu... You know, they originally... This was all planned for the Bird Flu. You know, the pandemic… the global pandemic management system was designed for the Bird Flu.

BR: Yes.

JB: Baxter was the attempt to start this global pandemic.

BR: It is very much like that story I told yesterday about the B-52 bomber that flew from Minot Air Force Base down to Barksdale in 2007 with the nuclear missiles on it.

JB: Yes, yes.

BR: And then nothing happened after that.

JB: Yeah, yeah.

BR: You know? But it was meant to.

JB: Yeah. Well, then they were in a dilemma for a few days... I mean after I filed the charges, frankly. Then you have the Swine Flu because they decided they can't get away with the Bird Flu… too much evidence that they're up to something. Then appears the Swine Flu out of nowhere.

But they had a problem in that the virus that they released… they misjudged it, you know. They thought they'd released a very virulent form that was going to bury deep into peoples’ lungs and create all this… you know… shocking damage very quickly. And it didn't. It became milder and milder and milder.

BR: Yes.

JB: They've been working on it really hard, trying to get it more lethal. And they haven't quite managed it. And so we've been very lucky, Bill… because if they had got a lethal thing going, there wouldn't have been the atmosphere in which information about the vaccine could spread.

BR: And even the mutations haven't materialized, have they? Receptor binding domain 225-G, I think… which Henry L. Niman talks about.

JB: Yes.

BR: That's what was affecting a lot of people... well, not a lot of people… but an alarming number... an alarming small number of people in the Ukraine.

JB: Um-hm.

BR: It's the thing that went straight to the lungs and people were talking about the Ukraine plague and stuff. But that never... that fizzled out, didn't it?

JB: Yeah, I don't know what's happened. We're getting a lot of help from some place… you know?

BR: Oh, yeah.

JB: But they're doing their best to get all these things started. And they're just not working out. You know?

BR: Just not working out.

JB: Fizzling out… not quite working. And then, of course, the big problem that they've had now is that there's no way that people can see why all the governments should take these emergency measures when there's absolutely no pandemic. There's no Swine Flu. There's no sickness. There's no illness. There's no proportion. It becomes obviously a propaganda thing. You know?

BR: Hmm.

JB: So, if they suddenly explode a nuclear bomb tomorrow in Berlin and say it was al Qaeda, who's going to believe it? [laughs]

BR: This is [laughs]... this is the fourth or fifth time you've mentioned a nuclear bomb in Berlin. Should my friends in Berlin get worried about all this? [laughs]

JB: No, no, no! I'm just thinking if I were them, I'd realize… you know… they really have to up the stakes.

BR: That's the kind of thing they've got to do. Yeah.

JB: They have to go really away from just a shoe bomb, or whatever. They have to really go for a major thing.

BR: Yep.

JB: And I think they have to go for Europe. They have to try and get the EU fighting in the Middle East, or against Russia, or against China… you know… and bring the really major power blocs...

BR: Yeah.

JB: ...into play. Eurasia, China, whatever… and they need to do it quickly. And I don't see what other option they have that's a major… you know... nuclear bomb attacks within Europe or the U.S.A.

BR: That's quite strategically astute. I can completely understand your logic.

JB: Yeah, so it might not be Berlin. Because Berlin, you know, might be a good place, I would think.

BR: It could be. I mean...

JB: I don't think it's going to be Vienna because that's where half of them are… the Hapsburgs Illuminati… you know?

BR: [laughs]

JB: But it could be… you know...

BR: Stay in Vienna, you'll be safe there! But really what you're just saying is that they might do... is you think there might be a false flag event in Europe somewhere in order to mobilize the European people because they're not really properly onboard yet.

JB: I think that through the Swine Flu, they have always counted on the Europeans going along with it kind of thing… you know?… and being ignorant. And now they’ve realized that there's a tremendous skepticism in the European population. Even the gendarme won't be taking the Swine Flu jab.

BR: Yeah.

JB: They’re losing control of Europe and they'll be asking how they can get back that control. Will a false flag operation rise in fear work? Will they be able to get the Europeans into a fear mode? Will they accept totalitarian rule on the grounds that they've been attacked? You know? I don't think so, Bill.

BR: I don't think so, either.

JB: I really don't think so. I think it's not plausible enough anymore.

BR: I mean, there are a huge number of Europeans… just regular Europeans… who are looking over the Atlantic at America and they don't buy the 9/11 story.

JB: Oh yes, yes!

BR: More Americans buy the government 9/11 conspiracy theory because it's their conspiracy theory.

JB: Yeah, yeah.

BR: ...rather than the fact of what happened. But from people who are outside of America, this all looks very transparent, of course.

JB: Oh, absolutely.

BR: It's been featured in the mainstream media, on television programs all over Europe and the rest of the world.

JB: Yeah.

BR: People really know about this stuff. So they've got a bit of a job on their hands, don't they?

JB: They do. I mean… I think that until quite recently Europeans did think that Europe was different and the EU was different... blah, blah. Now they're realizing it’s controlled by practically the same group. You know.

BR: Hmm.

JB: So I think they have a big problem on their hands. If the armies aren't willing to fight, if the top level of the military is not willing to give their people the Swine Flu jab… gendarmes aren't going to order them in to take it… the French army's against it... how are they going to get them to… you know… to go and destroy themselves, basically, in some Middle East war they've manufactured?

So I think they're going to try everything. But I think they've realized that the belief that people had that this is really what's happening is gone. They realize it’s a pantomime… theater… more and more.

BR: The pantomime flu.

JB: Yeah.

BR: That would be a good book title.

JB: Yes. [laughs] Good... good one.

BR: [laughs] Yeah. Okay… wonderful.

JB: Okay.

BR: Thank you so much. This has been a great audio interview right on the back of the video interview, here. I'm delighted.

JB: Yeah.

BR: There's some good material here that you’ve shared with people. This is very important.

JB: Yeah, yeah.

BR: This is very important.

JB: See… it didn't come out about the Lisbon Treaty, as usual, in the mainstream press. But I just happened to be following it because...

BR: Because of your Irish connection?

JB: ...because of my Irish connection.

BR: Yes.

JB: And I realized that the only block to the implementation of the Lisbon Treaty was this Irish vote. And if they had voted Yes one year ago, we would already be under the Lisbon Treaty. I would never have got to the point where I could have set up my website.

You know, there's an EU Police that can come and arrest you in any country where you are. And they don't even have to give a reason to the judge.

BR: Really?!

JB: Yes, yes. People don't realize that. There's an EU Police that can come, knock on the door in the middle of the night, take you out, bring you wherever they want to bring you. And they don’t even have to report it to the local police under the Lisbon Treaty.

BR: On any pretext of suspicion or something that they say...

JB: Yes, whatever law they have.

BR: Hmm.

JB: They don't even have to give the local police a justification for why they've arrested you. They operate completely independently. And this was set up under the Lisbon Treaty.

You can be sure that one year ago they would have already begun implementing it. But of course it only came into force now in December, after the Irish voted... just at this point where the whole public opinion of Europe is turning against governments and also the EU.

The EU regulated the European Medicines Agency which is two-thirds funded by the pharmaceutical companies and subordinate to the business commission… the economics commission of the European Union.

Not the health commission… but the business commission… was one of the main perpetrators of this crime… you can call it…because they allowed these vaccines to go onto the market and circumvent all the clinical trials for safety and efficacy. They are absolutely 100% complicit in the whole thing… and can be shown to do that… that the EU-wide regulator gave permission for these vaccines. So, it’s going to implicate the EU in the whole thing.

BR: This is an important package of information, actually, for all of the European viewers and listeners here who really can take onboard that they need to dig deep into this. So thank you for that.

JB: Yeah.

BR: This was something I didn't even know we'd be talking about, and it's fascinating.

JB: Yeah.

BR: So it's not quite over yet...

JB: No, no.

BR: Not quite! [laughs]

JB: It's really, I think, a question of mobilizing public awareness for the next few months, Bill. I think if we get to June without a major catastrophe… in September, then, I think the awareness has been so exponential that there's no way they can do anything.

BR: Yeah... if we can get through this year, we'll be out of the woods, I think.

JB: Absolutely! I think even through this half-year. I just feel from somewhere it's going to be much easier for us. We're already... we'll be out of the woods.

BR: A lot of people listening to this will also be waking up to the fact that they have to do something themselves. They're here for a reason also. They need to mobilize in whatever way is right for them.

JB: Absolutely.

BR: That's my message to them.

JB: Yeah, yeah.

BR: Wonderful job you're doing. So thank you again for everything you’ve been doing here to raise public awareness and make sure that these things don't happen.

This is why we're all here, you know? This is why we're all here... to do this.

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Bill Ryan

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