Jordan Maxwell
Close Encounters and other stories

May 2010

Jordan Maxwell (JM): In 1990, I was speaking at a UFO conference over in Palm Springs, California. I was speaking at a conference there and this guy I noticed was dressed typical, like a hippie. He had the psychedelic shirt on and thongs. He had long hair, all the way down his back, blonde, and was very soft-spoken, and he presented himself as just a hippie. But I knew instinctively he was not because his mannerisms spoke of culture, money. His whole mannerism; he is not who he is portraying himself to be.

And so, he came over to me and he said, ‘Jordan, I’d like to invite you, take you to dinner across the street. I want to talk with you.’

And I thought this interesting, whoever this guy is. He looked to be about maybe 30, 35, and he said, ‘I want to talk with you. I have something to tell you. So, would you go to dinner with me?’ I said, ‘Sure.’

We go across the street. It was in Palm Springs during the summer. It was very warm at night. We went to a Mexican restaurant, sat outside. It was a beautiful night.

And he said ‘I have something to tell you. It’s not going to happen right now. It’s going to happen later on in your life so you don’t have to worry about it now. But one day you’re going to have two men come to you and they’re going to ask you to go with them to a very important city on the East Coast. And they will not threaten you. There will not be any threats but they’re going to ask you to come with them and they are going to bring you to a very important place back East, where very powerful people are.

And the reason why they’re coming for you is they have a business proposition they want to make with you. They got a business proposition and they want to talk with you about it.’

And he said, ‘You can agree to go with them because they will not harm you.’ And he said, ‘They’re just businessmen.’ And he said, ‘But when you go, the building you will go into has …’

I can’t remember if he said 12 or 13, I think he said 13 steps. Maybe it was 12. Anyway, he said, ‘But, there will be beautiful marble steps, there are going to be 12 of them. When you’re walking up those marble steps, you’ll remember I told you that this was going to happen. And the two guys will be bringing you to meet a very important man.’

And he said, ‘The proposition is going to be simply this; that if you can do your work and leave certain subjects alone, do whatever you want, talk about anything you want on all of this, the religion, and philosophies and all this stuff, do whatever you want here, but leave these subjects alone. Forget them. Don’t even talk about them. Then, if you can agree to that, they will then …’ he said to me, ‘They will make you their golden boy. You will be on magazine covers, you will be in newspapers, they will promote you in movies and you will be living very good. And they will protect you and promote you and you’ll have a very good life.’

And so I said, ‘Suppose I decide I don’t want the deal?’

He said, ‘They’re not going to threaten you, it’s just a business deal. And what they will say to you, what this man will say to you, Well, if you cannot agree to this, then we will have to consider you to be our enemy and we will have to act accordingly.’

And he said, then, and they made a very big point of this, he said, ‘They will tell you that you don’t need to make a decision now. You tell them how long you want before giving them a decision. If it’s six days, six weeks, six months, it doesn’t matter to them. They don’t care. You tell them how long you want to think about it and whatever you tell them, they will accept. But when the day comes that you set, you have to give them an answer. Are you with us or against us?’

And he said, ‘That day you have to give them an answer because they are very serious. They can make you or break you.’

So I asked him, ‘Why are you telling me this?’

And he said, ‘Because it’s going to happen. It will happen. Not for a long time but one day it will happen, so I think it is better that you start thinking about this, because it’s going to be serious. You’re going to be facing some very powerful people and they’re not playing games. So you better start thinking about it.’

So I said to him, ‘Well, what should my answer be?’

He said, ‘Oh, no, I can’t do that. That’s up to you. That’s your call.’ And he said, ‘All I will tell you is this, that whatever your decision you will make, will affect you when you die. That I will tell you. If you make the wrong decision, when you die you’re going to pay for it on the other side. They’re going to be waiting for you.’

So, the implication was, I got from it, if you want to live good now, go with the flow. But when you die, you’ve got a spiritual price you have to pay because you, you know, you sold out, kind of thing. He didn’t say that but that’s what I gathered. That whoever your spiritual companions are in the universe sent you here not to sell out.

And so, he said, ‘So, just think about it. They’ll come one day. That’s it.’

And so he used to show up every now and then he would show up at lectures of mine and I would see him. He called himself Cosmos.

And I said, ‘What is your real name?’

He said, ‘Not important, just call me Cosmos.’

He was always very, very kind, very courteous, very generous with me. And he would pop up all the time, any time I would speak in San Francisco he would pop up.

And one day, quite a few years ago, I was in San Francisco giving a lecture, and a lady was buying a tape or book from me at my table, and the book fell on the floor. I couldn’t go around the table and pick it up for her but Cosmos was standing next to her. So he leaned down to pick it up for her, and when he did, a medallion fell out of his hippie shirt and the moment I saw it I knew what it was.

It was a brilliantly designed double-headed eagle, Masonic double-headed eagle, with a triangle of a red, probably a ruby. It was about that size [indicating about 2”] It had a triangle ruby with ‘33’ embedded on it, cut on the ruby and it was sitting on top of the double-headed eagle of Free Masonry.

And when I saw that, for the first time I reached out and grabbed it because it was on a long chain, and I said, ‘Thirty-third degree Mason?’ And he said, ‘No. Council of 33.’ Meaning he’s not just a 33rd degree Mason, he’s on the Council of 33. And Washington, D.C. there are 33 men that run world Masonry. And... It’s called The Council of 33 and he’s on it.

And I said to him, ‘Cosmos, were you a 33rd degree when you talked with me a few years ago in Palm Springs?’

He said, ‘Yes.’

And I said, ‘I don’t understand what’s going on here.’

And he said to me, ‘Jordan, you go all around the world talking about political leaders, talking about the Queen of England, you bad mouth the Pope, you bad mouth people, you know, you’re jumping on everybody and doing what you’re doing. Has anyone ever harmed you?’

I said, ‘No.’

‘Has anybody tried to arrest you, or to frighten you, or do anything to you?’

I said, ‘No.’

And he said, “Have you ever wondered why?’

And I said, ‘I’ve never thought about it.’

He said, ‘No one has harmed you because of us. We are protecting you. We follow you everywhere you go. We know what you’re doing and we’re protecting you. The Council of 33 is protecting you.’

And I said, ‘I really don’t understand this.’

And he said, ‘You don’t need to. All you need to know is that we are protecting you. We know exactly who you are and what you’re doing, and where you go. And no one’s going to harm you. That is the task we have been given, to protect you.’

I thought, Wow. And then Dr. Sheyers [laughs] … it’s my Masonic papers later on. That hasn’t happened, what he said, hasn’t happened, yet. So I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if it does maybe in the future, if things really start to get big, you know, and more people hearing and it gets to be big, somewhere along the line …

Because I had an FBI agent back in the late 1990s, an FBI agent called me from San Diego. I was in Los Angeles, and this guy called me from San Diego and he gave me his name, Special Agent Somebody from San Diego. And I said, ‘Just hold on, I’ll call you back,’ and I hung up.

So I called Information in San Diego and I got the FBIs phone number. I called that number and I asked for him, and he comes on the phone. So now I know, he is FBI.

So I said, ‘Okay, now talk to me.’

And he said, ‘I’m calling you as a social call. It’s not business. I just want you to know that the people who work in the FBI, the working class people, we know who you are and what you’re doing. And we like what you’re doing. We don’t have any problem with what you’re doing. Many of the people in the FBI like what you’re saying. And right now, I just want to let you know your government does not see you as a threat. They don’t care what you’re talking about the Pope, and religion. They don’t care about that. And they don’t really see you as a threat because you’re not talking about arms and overthrowing the government. So they don’t see you as a threat at all.

But,’ he said, ‘The reason why they don’t see you as a threat is because they know people are hearing you, but nobody is listening. But when people begin to listen to you, now we’re going to have to look at you again, because now you could be politically dangerous. So as long as we see people are just hearing you like they hear everybody else, it’s fine. But if we see people starting to listen to you, then we’ll have to take another look at you.’

‘But,’ he said, ‘Right now I want to tell you one thing for sure: we in the FBI and your government does not see you as a threat. But if ever you’re going to seriously be in trouble, let me tell you who your enemy will be. It’s going to be the church. It’s most likely going to be the Catholic church. But it’s going to be the church. Christian church will be your enemy, because the Christian church is the biggest organized criminal syndicate in the world, and we know it. The people who are actually running Christianity, both Protestant and Catholic, behind the scenes, are the world’s best criminals, and we know that.’

‘So,’ he says, ‘When you’re messing with the church, you’re messing with underworld criminal syndicates. Money, politics, sex, drugs, the whole thing; they’re running it and we know that. So your government doesn’t see you as a threat but you keep messing around with the church and the Pope, they’re going to see you as a threat.’

I have a young friend who was double-dating with another guy and he called me after, a couple days later. He said, ‘Yeah, I went out a couple nights ago with my girlfriend and we double-dated with another couple.’ And he said this other guy was a Mossad agent. And he said, ‘So at dinner I asked him if he knew anything about you. And he said: Yeah, Israel knows all about Jordan Maxwell. We’re painfully well aware of him. Yes. However, there is nothing we can do about him because he doesn’t suggest taking up arms, guns, nothing. He’s only talking so there’s not much you can do about him.

But Israel feels that he could be a very serious threat to Israel if he undermines our religion. If he undermines the Jewish religion, that will reflect on Israel politically, and the Middle East. And that would be very dangerous, so we’re watching him but there’s not much we can do about him right now because he’s not suggesting overthrow of governments or anything so …’

I just think all those incidents are interesting.


JM: I was speaking in a conference in Pasadena, mid ‘90s, and there was like 600 people in the audience, it was a very big conference at a big hotel, in Pasadena. And I was a keynote speaker on Saturday morning and I spoke for two hours.

About a week before the conference, Norio Hayakawa, who Bill probably knows, Norio Hayakawa and Gary Schultz were putting it on. The name of it was called Need to Know seminar. And Norio Hayakawa and Gary Schultz put on the best shows, I mean, it was sensational. It was really an interesting event. They had great speakers and it was a great event.

But Norio and Gary called me about a week before the event and said, ‘We’re going to go over to the hotel just to look around. You want to go with us?’ I said, ‘Yeah, sure.’ So we go over to the hotel.

So Norio says to me, ‘Well, what kind of a presentation are you going to do and what do you need? Do you need a chalk board or a slide projector, or what?’

And I said, ‘No, I’m not doing any of that.’ I said, ‘Just get me a table, a long table so I can lay all the paperwork out, and I want to be like a teacher, just the chair and the table on the stage and I just want to talk to the audience.’

And so Norio said, ‘Well, I’ll tell you what we’ll do: we’ll put a video camera behind you, have a guy on barstool sit behind you, and right here [indicates back over his left shoulder] so that when you pick up a document, they can zoom in on it and everyone can see it in the ballroom.’

Because it will be closed-circuit television. So it worked out good. I did two hours that morning, had a great time and it worked perfect. And so the guy was sitting right behind me with the camera right here.

And afterwards, toward the end of the evening when we were getting ready to leave, the guy, the cameraman said, ‘Jordan, my wife and I would like to have you come over and have dinner with us tonight. We live right here in Pasadena.’ I said, ‘Sure.’

And so, he and I are sitting in the front room, his wife’s in the kitchen fixing dinner, and we’re just sitting and talking about stuff and, after a little while, she comes out from the kitchen and says to him, she says, ‘Have you told him yet?’ And he said, ‘No, I didn’t tell him yet. I wasn’t going to tell him until after dinner.’

And I said, ‘Tell me what?’

And he said, ‘Well, I might as well tell you now.’ He said, ‘I’ve told this story to so many people and my wife has heard it so many times, but now I’ll tell you.’

He said, ‘When I was like 15 years old, I was back East, on the East Coast,’ and he said, ‘I was thumbing my way north to go stay with my cousin for the summer vacation. And I was out on the road, thumbing my way and an old man in a pick-up truck, and he was very old, and,’ he said, ‘the pick-up truck was as old as he was, and it smelled terrible because he had been smoking cigarettes, cigars, pipes, anything that would burn, he had been smoking.’

And he said it was an old man, a dirty pick-up truck and it smelled terrible. And he said, ‘But the moment I got in the truck that old man started telling me every single thing about my life. He knew all about my life, my mother’s life, my father. He knew, there was nothing about my life and my family he did not know, and he was right, exactly on. He told me about my girlfriend, about my dad’s business, about my mother and who she was before she got married.’ He said, ‘There was nothing he didn’t know. I was just amazed listening to this old man.’

And he said, ‘And when he let me out, he said: Everything I have been telling you was to get your attention and entertain you. Now, I’m going to tell you something important. After you’re 50 years old, you’re going to be on the West Coast of this country, after 50, and one morning you’re going to be on a stage with a man sitting at a table with a bunch of papers, and he’s going to be speaking to a very large audience. And you’re going to be sitting behind him with a camera, but that camera doesn’t exist now, but it will then.

And you’re going to have a special kind of camera, and that camera will allow him to... you will have the camera right on his shoulder, and when he picks the paper up, that camera will allow people in the audience to see what he’s talking about. But that kind of camera doesn’t exist now, but it will then.

And when you find yourself on the stage with that man sitting at the table talking to the audience, you tell him I put him there. He’s not there by chance, I put him there. So that he doesn’t think it was his idea. You tell him that I told you, that you would be behind him with a camera and he’s going to be sitting at a table with papers and I put him there, so that he will know nothing he does is by chance. I put him there. He does what I tell him to do.’

And he says, ‘I’ve told everybody I’ve heard this story for years, people I’ve told, but it wasn’t until this morning when I’m sitting there on the damned stage with you and the camera,’ and he said, ‘and I was so busy getting things set up I wasn’t thinking about it until you started talking, and it hit me.’

And he said, ‘I looked in the audience at my wife, and she nodded her head, Yup, this is him.’ And he said, ‘I was shocked. I’ve just turned 50 years old. I’m sitting on the stage with a camera behind you. And he said you would be sitting at a table with the papers on a table, talking to the audience.’

And he said, ‘So I have to tell you, that I was told like 35 years ago or whatever it was, that I would be sitting with you this morning and that you would be sitting at that table doing what you’re doing. And he told me to tell you that that wasn’t your idea. So, you can think that was your idea but he told me a long time ago what you were going to be doing this morning.’

So I thought, Wow, man.

So I was visibly shaken, emotionally shaken, and tears came to my eyes. I got up and left. I walked out. He was upstairs. I remember, walking down at night and I took a long walk. And he came out to walk with me. And there were tears in my eyes because I was scared. That was frightening to me.

And I said, ‘I don’t understand.’

And he said, ‘I don’t either. I’m just telling you what the old man said. I don’t know how to explain it either. But he told me that you were going to be doing what you were doing and I would be sitting behind you with a camera. And when that happened, he told me to tell you that it wasn’t your idea. He put you there this morning.’

So I thought, wow, what a trip.

Bill Ryan (BR): And clearly, that old man wasn’t just an old man.

JM: Clearly.

BR: And it fits exactly with the story of the girl’s father when you were 19.

JM: Exactly.

BR: He really wasn’t just the girl’s father. He was something completely different.

JM: Totally.

BR: And I’m just guessing here but maybe they were just taking that form for the purposes of leaving a message. And in both cases that message seemed to be something that indicated that they knew exactly what you would be doing at a particular time or phase in your life in years to come, which was all part of some orchestrated plan.

And it would seem to be a benevolent orchestrated plan …

JM: Yes, yes. Yeah, because I don’t feel fearful and I don’t feel frightened, but my gut feeling is, and I totally feel this for sure, that there is a very powerful unseen force of good, of protection, that has the oversight and the ultimate power, and it’s watching all of this chaos, etcetera, going on on the earth, but it is above it. And it can call the shots and at any moment, step in and intervene in mankind’s affairs.

So, it’s as if, like a father watching the kids play. Well, the kids are doing things wrong, and this kid’s doing something wrong, too, in there, and they’re all doing bad things, but he’s watching. And when he decides to step in, he’ll step in. And everybody’s going to know it.

But right now he’s letting you go and play your games, do whatever you’re doing. But I’m watching you, I know what you’re doing. And so, I get the same …

BR: My interpretation would be a little different, and I just inject this here, just this, as an interesting suggestion. It’s more like a referee or an umpire in a ball game who’s keeping things fair, so that the key participants have got a good chance in the game without being overwhelmed in such a way that …

JM: I like that, yeah, I like that. I think you’re right. That kind of sounds right. Making sure that the thing is balanced.

BR: Because I don’t believe that the outcome is certain, or fixed, at all, but I like to think, as you know, we’ve talked about this privately …

JM: Yeah.

BR: … that you and I, and tens of thousands of others are here, and we wouldn’t have showed up here in this lifetime if this game was fixed and the whole thing was going to be predetermined to some sorry ending. I don’t believe that at all, I think that we are in with the chance in this game, I think that’s why we are here, because it is fun. And every now and then what intervention there is is something that keeps that game balanced in such a way that we get a chance to exercise our own responsibility for a good outcome if we’re smart enough. And that’s my personal take on that, whats your responsibility?

JM: And you and I have discussed this back and forth, but I totally agree with you. Yeah, I think you’re right. That there’s some higher force... Well, I know there’s a higher force, I know that there’s a higher matrix of power, that I know. And I know it’s protecting me and others. And I know it has its own agenda. These things I already know for sure.


BR: Tell the story – it’s a long story but it’s an absolutely wonderful, staggering story – about the experience that you had with …

JM: Oh, Paul Tice and …

BR: With Paul and …

JM: Ivy, yeah.

BR: … Ivy, out in the Nevada desert, near Area 51, Rachel, Nevada, the Little A’Le’Inn in the desert.

JM: Right.

BR: Do tell that story so that we can …

JM: I had a friend, a Mexican friend who worked at General Motors. He was upper management at General Motors in Los Angeles, and he was getting married. He lived in Palmdale which is about 50 miles north of Los Angeles.

And so he was getting married and so he wanted me to be the best man at his wedding. So the idea was that Saturday morning, he would get married that night, Saturday morning I was driving up to stay with him while they were getting ready for the wedding that night.

So I went out to stay with my friend and… while the girl and her mother and the girlfriends were out shopping and whatever. So the girls went out to the market. And they came back from the market and there was an old guy in an old beat-up car following them. And when they got out of the car, he gets out of the car and follows them up to the house.

And Carlos and I are sitting now looking out at this old guy coming and he says, ‘Who is this?’

‘I don’t know.’

And so when she comes in, she said, ‘This man met us in the market and he said: I know that you’re getting married tonight and the best man at your wedding is at your home and I need to talk to him.’

And she said, ‘How do you know I’m getting married?’

And he said, ‘I already know who you are. I know you’re getting married, but the best man at your wedding is at your home and I need to talk to him.’

So she said, you know, she obviously didn’t see him as a threat.

So I said to him, ‘Well, that’s me. So talk to me.’

He says, ‘I’ve been told to tell you something. That a year and a half from now, a year and a half from now you’re going to have an extraordinary encounter with your friends from out there [Jordan points upwards]. They sent me to tell you that. And the event is going to happen way out in the desert.’

And I said, ‘Well, sometimes I go out into the desert here, in California and look for UFOs.’

And he said, ‘No, no, no. This is not going to be in California, it’s going to be east of here. And it’s going to be way out in the desert. You’re going to be way out in the desert. And they will pick the time and the place, not you. But it’s going to be a year and a half from now.

And they’re telling me to tell you that you’re going to be driving the car, and that you will have a woman in the front seat and a man in the back seat. And they will see to it that you have a woman in the front and a man in the back. And the reason why is because they want both a woman and a man to be a witness to what’s going to happen. But the event is for you, not for them, but they [Jordan points upwards] want two witnesses, but they want a woman and a man to be a witness. But it’s for you. Your friends are going to show themselves to you. Year and a half.’

And that’s it. And he left.

And, a year and a half later I was speaking in Mesquite, Nevada, at a big UFO conference for Bob Brown. And that was in Mesquite which is like 65 miles northeast of Las Vegas. And I had brought with me my lady friend from Hawaii who was a talk-show host from Hawaii, Ivy West. And my publisher friend who was living in San Diego, where I was at the time, too, my publisher friend Paul Tice … So Paul was in the back seat and Ivy was in the front seat. And I’m driving.

And we’re coming back from Mesquite, Sunday morning, early, and just as we’re getting into Las Vegas I said, out of nowhere I said, ‘Have either one of you ever been to Area 51?’


‘You wanna go?’

‘Yeah, let’s do.’

Well, I had been given an invitation to go to the Little A’Le’Inn, by Joe and Pat Travis who own the Little A’Le’Inn because they used to hear me on my show. I used to do a radio show, a late-night talk-show in Las Vegas, and so they would hear me. So they used to call me and say, ‘Come up as our guest, come up and visit.’ And so I never did.

But so we decided, okay, we’ll go. So I called them and they said, ‘Yeah, come on up.’

So on the way up, it’s 135 miles north of Las Vegas in the high desert of Nevada. It’s a little Mickey Mouse, and I do mean small, little establishment out there in the middle of nowhere, and it’s actually just a big bar, restaurant bar, and then there’s about six or eight mobile homes which are rented out like rooms, like a motel, but they’re little mobile homes, they rent them out like a motel. And then there’s a Mom-and-Pop grocery store and a little service station and that’s it. It’s called Rachel, Nevada.

And of course, about a mile or so to the mountain, on the other side of the mountain, there’s the military base, Nellis Air Force test range. And very highly secret stuff going on out there.

So, anyway, we’re driving up, and so I told Ivy and Paul about the prophecy. I said, ‘Here it is, at exactly a year and a half later, and he said I’d be driving, a woman in the front seat and a man in the back.’ So I said, ‘Don’t be surprised if, you know, something happens to us. I don’t know.’

So I’m glad I told them before it happened.

So we get up there and that night we were sitting around at the bar talking and so, when they were getting ready to close, I asked Joe and Pat, the owners, I said, ‘Where do we go to see UFOs?’ Because it’s a very famous place there, Area 51, for UFOs.

So Joe said, Joe with his cold humor, he said, ‘You don’t have to go anywhere. They saw you. Just sit down here in the car, they’ll find you if they want you.’

And so Pat said, ‘Well, if you want to go where all the tourists go, go back out on the highway.’ And this is a highway out in the middle of nowhere, this little Mickey Mouse place out there.

And so she said, ‘Go back out on the highway and go back toward Vegas exactly 19 miles. Put it on your speedometer, exactly 19 miles. Because at the 19 mile marker, you will see a big mailbox and a big parking area and a road. Park at the mailbox. And one of the flight paths is over the mountain right there so anything coming in or going out is going to go over your head. So, if you’re gonna see something, most likely that’s where it will be. So, go back to the mailbox.’

So, we get in the car. I’m driving, a woman in the front seat and a man in the back. And I get out on the highway and instead of turning right, which she just said, to go south, I turn north, I turn left and go north. Ivy didn’t catch it, and Paul didn’t catch it. We’re just talking, talking, and we didn’t realize we’re going the wrong way.

So we slowed down... now it’s about, it was like 11:30, 12 o’clock when we left. When we got out to the 19 mile, we’re slowing down and then Ivy says, ‘Wait a minute, we’re going north. She said, go south.’

So I said, ‘Alright well, why don’t we just turn around and go back. We got the room for the night, and we’ll go back out tomorrow night and do it right.’

So she said, ‘Okay, so we’ll stop.’

Well, now it’s like midnight, and it was totally overcast. There was... you couldn’t see nothing. Totally overcast. And it was like midnight, and it’s 20 miles north of Little A’Le’Inn, which is 135 miles to start with. Now it’s 155 miles out in the middle of nowhere. [laughs]

So I pulled the car to a stop, and where I stopped there was a wide dirt road going off into the desert. It was a well kept dirt road.

And Ivy said, ‘Let’s go out in the desert, let’s drive out there.’

And I said, ‘Ivy, you’re in the desert. You’re not going to see anything out there that you wouldn’t see here. And tonight you’re not going to see nothing anyway because it’s totally overcast. I don’t want to go out in the desert.’

And Ivy insisted, and Paul, you know, jumped in and said, ‘Let’s go out in the desert a little bit.’

And I said, ‘Why?’

‘Go out in the desert.’

So, I drive out in the desert, I’m driving out, I go out two, three blocks, and all of sudden I got this overwhelming feeling that we had done something wrong and I was legitimately scared that we had done something wrong.

And I said, ‘Ivy, I’m getting out of here. I don’t know what it is.’

We didn’t see any sign that said Stay Out, no, nothing like that. I just felt something was wrong. I stopped the car. I backed it up, and just before I took off, Ivy and Paul jumped on me and said, ‘Just stop the car. There are no signs, there are no bases or anything. Just stop the car and we’ll get out for a minute.’

I said, ‘Ivy, something is wrong and I’m feeling it. I want to get out of here. I’m serious.’

She said, ‘Stop the car. We’ll get out for a minute.’

So, I turned the key off. We get out, and when you shut the door and the lights are off, there’s no stars, no moon, it’s totally overcast, it’s pitch black. No light. Period. And you had to hold onto the car.

I can hear voices but you can’t see anything. And that’s a spooky feeling. I’ve never had that experience before.

And in the total darkness, any light you see immediately.

We couldn’t have been out of the car 30 seconds, not even 30 seconds, and all of a sudden the cloud opened up, like, a little bit of an oval opened up. And you could see stars. Well, the moment it opened up, we all three saw it because there’s no light, any light you see immediately.

And Ivy said, ‘Look, the clouds are opening.’

And when she said that, two bluish white discs, disc-shaped things, glowing bluish white, were absolutely gorgeous, beautiful. They came in when the clouds opened up, but when they came in they didn’t fly in, they kind of floated. They just floated in, and they floated close to the cloud above them so that the light was reflecting on the cloud above them, bluish white. And they were glowing bluish white.

And as they came in, two of them, beautiful saucer-shaped things, very slow, and while we’re watching, five more came in behind them. Now there’s seven bluish white discs and they come over us. All of a sudden it stop[ped].

And I was absolutely frightened. I’d never seen anything as beautiful and awesome and other-worldly than five glowing bluish white disc-shaped things stop over you. And instantly they change [Jordan switches his hands in the air], in a quarter of a second, boom, they all changed positions.

I thought, God, how’d they do that? And then all of a sudden: boom, boom, boom, they changed again, and locked. And I was shook. I know what the G-force for moving something that quickly... I mean, like ‘that’ [Jordan quickly switching his hands in the air] and it was locked and stayed in place.

And I said to Ivy, ‘Ivy, I’m getting out of here. I don’t know what this is. I don’t want to know. I’m scared and I want to get out of here.’

And I got in the car, I cranked it up. And Ivy and Paul loved it. They said, “God, look what they’re doing, how beautiful they are. Seven of them.’

And I said, ‘Get in the car. You’re going to walk home. I’m leaving.’

And they got in the car because they knew I was serious. They rolled the window down, and looked out as I flipped on the lights and took off. And when I flipped on the lights and took off, Ivy and Paul went totally berserk. Now they’re both frightened, and Ivy and Paul are screaming and crying and yelling. Now she’s really frightened. Now, she’s scared. Me? I was already scared. But now I’ve got a woman in the front seat who is going ballistic on me and I’m already frightened.

And I’m screaming at her to shut up, and I’m driving fast, I’m speeding toward the highway. And all I could think of was, I don’t want to overshoot the highway. No, I go out on the other side and crash the car.

But she’s yelling and screaming and so is Paul. And I stopped the car quickly, and it was very quick. Maybe two seconds. I just stopped the car and opened up to see what they were screaming about, and those things were right down on us, big. Still bluish white, but very big. Moving all around.

I was frightened to death and I shot to the highway, and as soon as I could see the highway coming up, I knew I was going too fast so I hit the brake and skidded all the way up to the highway. And as I came out onto the highway, the car skidded sideways. And the moment we hit the highway, all three of us felt totally safe again. All three of us felt it, we’re all right now, you know, on the highway.

The saucers, all seven of them, had gone back out into the desert. And, I can’t remember exactly how they disappeared but something to... I’m just trying to remember... they went back out in the desert... Because I was so frightened, and I was with them, and the car lights were on and we got out of the car, we stood there talking to each other, and they had gone back out into the desert and gone ‘flicht.’ They’re gone. That’s it.

And my heart was pounding, and I was absolutely frightened. And there was tears in my eyes, and I was legitimately frightened. I’ve never seen …

They not only were able to do things which I would say is unworldly, is not possible to be done. Humans don’t have that kind of technology that I saw, that we saw. And that scared me, because, first of all, if it is human technology then we’re about a thousand years ahead more than you think we are, if we could do this. And if it isn’t us, then that means it’s somebody else and that’s even scarier. Either way, we’re in trouble.

And so, we stood out on the highway that night, and the emotions were absolutely incredible. She was crying, she was laughing. Paul... we were frightened. It was beautiful, it was awesome, it was scary, it was horrible, it was wonderful. It was just everything. Just all... just boiling emotions.

And we were like children who had been frightened.

And when we finally decided to go back, I’m driving back slow, I was shaking. And we go back, we had already got a motel, we were staying in one of the mobile homes. And when you go into the mobile home, you go in from the middle of the thing, so you walk directly into the mobile home that we were staying in, into the bathroom. And on both sides of the bathroom are bedrooms. And one bedroom had two beds and the other had one.

Well, I’m not about to sleep by myself after this. And Ivy is a woman who can take care of herself. If ever there was going to be a street fight, I would like Ivy to be with me. [laughs]

And so I said, ‘Ivy, why don’t you and I take this room and Paul can have the other room.’

Paul said, ‘Okay.’

So Paul’s by himself and I’ve got Ivy in my room.

And so that night, for about a half hour or 40 minutes, we lay in bed talking. I could hear him in the next room. And we’re talking about what did we see tonight? What the hell was that all about? Was that our technology or somebody else’s? Well, all three of us knew that that was not human. What we saw tonight was not human.

So the next morning when I got up, Ivy and Paul had already gotten up and gone to the restaurant to have breakfast. And when I went over there, they’re sitting at the table with a bunch of people around talking to them, so I’m figuring they’re telling them what happened to us last night. No.

Ivy and Paul were talking about the alien that came in the motel last night. An alien came in the motel. I was sleeping. I slept through it. And it happened to Paul, it was in his room. It came to him, not me. Not to Ivy and me. It came in Paul’s room.

And there’s a video out there, that Anthony Hilder video. Anthony was up at Area 51 one time later on, a few years later, and Paul and I happened to be up there also, and we were telling Anthony about it, so he wanted to videotape the interview. And it’s called Alien 51. It’s a video put out by Anthony Hilder called Alien 51, and in there is Paul Tice and myself at Area 51 telling the same experience. So you’ll hear Paul tell it himself, what happened to him.

And Paul did not want to talk about it because it scared him. He was legitimately frightened.

This alien came into Paul’s bedroom. Paul said he fell asleep, he was sound asleep, and all of a sudden a light came on over his head and woke him up. It was a light green light. And he said very light, it wasn’t very bright at all, but just enough to wake him up. It was a light green light, and he said he looked up and it was an alien’s face with the big eyes as, you know, the normal alien-looking face, but you could see through it. It was a hologram. You could see through the face to the ceiling.

And he said then the hologram went down the ceiling, and hit the wall and came down until it was even with him sitting in bed. And the alien was now even with him, telepathically, [and] asked Paul, ‘What are you doing here? Who are you and what are you doing here?’

And Paul says, ‘I could understand him well. I knew exactly what he had asked. And I’m trying to think the answer rather than speak the answer. I’m thinking the answer.’

And he said, ‘When I started to answer him,’ he said [that] all of a sudden that thing went through his memory track, ‘everything that ever happened to me in my life, I saw in an instant. Everything. It was able to download my psyche and my brain to see everything I’d ever done. I knew I had no control over it, I was just seeing everything in my life going by. And then this alien told me, telepathically said, ‘You’re okay, you’re alright.’

And he said, ‘Then it went through the wall.’ But the other thing, he said, while it was talking to him, the room was moving. He said, ‘I could see the door going past the alien, I could see the window going past the alien, then the door coming back around. But in my mind I was seeing the wall circulating but it was staying where it was and not moving.’

And he said, ‘When the alien told me, ‘You’re alright, you’re okay,’ it backed out. It went backwards and went through the wall.’

Well, Ivy said that she was laying on her left side, looking into his room, and she said when she woke up, something woke her up and she saw this glowing green color on his wall. And the moment she woke up and saw that, she said a small, tiny pen light, red little light, came through Paul’s room, it zipped in and came right over the top of her. And she was paralyzed.

She said, ‘I couldn’t move, I couldn’t scream, I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t move. This little red thing was sitting over the top of me and I saw the light go, it went, that little red light shot back out and followed it, it was gone. And so I got up and went in there and sat with Paul. You were sound asleep.’ So she said, ‘Paul said this thing had told him: You’re okay, you’re alright, and it left.’

And so I’m listening to this and I said, ‘I didn’t see anything,’ and when I said that, Pat Travis, the owner of the restaurant, she’s very knowledgeable about UFO stuff, and Pat said to me, ‘No, no. They know who you are. They were just playing with your friends. They’re just playing, sometimes they’ll do this with people just to scare them. They were playing with your friends. But they know who you are and they’re not playing with you.’

And so I thought, wow, that means... you know, to have her say something like that.

And so... But that’s exactly what the old man had said.

So, a couple days later we left and I drove Ivy back to the airport in LA, she went back to Hawaii, and Paul and I were living in San Diego so we drove back. And I was working for a company called Truth Seeker company in San Diego and Paul was my publisher. This all happened in the first week of December of ‘94. December of ‘94 is when I had this whole experience out there in the desert, with these seven UFOs and the alien coming into Paul’s room.

And so the late spring of ‘95 I was working in San Diego, as I said. I rented a Chrysler convertible and I told no one where I was going and I drove back up to Area 51 by myself. I didn’t tell Paul, told nobody, [not] even the people I’m working with. I just took off and went. And I rented a Chrysler convertible and I drove up there. And I wanted to go back to where I’d had the experience, for some reason, I just wanted to go back.

And so I got there and that afternoon about 4:00 I drove out, north, 19 miles down the road, and drove back out on the same road. I wasn’t going to stay out there when the sun goes down, when it gets dark. I did want to go out there until the sun goes down, but when it gets dark I’m not staying out there. [laughs]

So I sat on the back of my car with my feet in the back seat, and I talked with … with them. And I said, ‘Look, I know you’re here and I know you can hear me. And I also know that you don’t wish to harm me. And I know that. If you did, I wouldn’t be here. So, I know that you don’t want to harm me. I want you to understand that I’m willing to do whatever it is I’m supposed to do with my life. If this is some kind of a spiritual experience I’m having, I want you to know that I’m willing to do whatever I’m supposed to do.

But I have two favors I wish to ask of you, two things I would ask you. One, don’t take me anywhere. I don’t want to be abducted, I don’t want to go anywhere. Just leave me alone. And two, don’t frighten me in my bedroom. I don’t want to wake up and be frightened in my bedroom. I’ve got a bad heart, been through too much, just leave me alone and don’t take me anywhere.

Show me what I’m supposed to do, tell me what I’ve got to do and I’m happy to do … Don’t take me anywhere or frighten me in my bedroom.’

And I said, ‘Thank you, good bye and good luck.’ And I got in my car, turned around and went back and spent a couple of nights with Joe and Pat. And then I drove back to San Diego and never told anyone.

About three or four weeks later, Paul Tice calls me and says there’s a young lady he heard about down on Coronado Island in San Diego – Coronado, a little island off the coast, take a big bridge going over to it – and he said that she’s a past life regressionist and he said, ‘I heard she’s really great. Why don’t you make an appointment with her and go see if she’s that good. And if she is, then I’ll go.’

I said, ‘No. If you want to see her, why don’t you make the appointment?’

‘No, no,’ he said, ‘you’re much closer to her, you’re very close. So you go see her.’

I said, ‘Okay.’ So I made an appointment. Her name was Kirin, K-I-R-I-N. Kirin was a beautiful, young girl, but mystical, about her. And so I drove over, I made the appointment, and I go in.

And so she has you take the watch off, your ring off and any metal. And I’m lying on a table, like a massage table, and she’s lighting candles around me and talking to someone. I thought maybe she was talking to somebody in the kitchen or something. She’s talking and lighting candles and I’m just laying there.

And after a few minutes of her talking it finally occurred to me there’s nobody in the house but her and I. And so I asked her, ‘Kirin, who are you talking to?’

And she said, ‘Oh, I’m sorry. I’m talking to your friends who brought you here.’

And I said, ‘What do you mean, brought me here, brought me to your house?’

She said, ‘No, no, no. Who brought you to the Earth. You’ve been brought here to do something. They brought you here, and I’m talking to your friends who brought you here.’

I said, ‘Well, since you seem to be on good terms with my friends, why don’t you ask them, what the hell am I doing here? Who are my friends?’

She says, ‘You don’t know who brought you here?’

I said, ‘No. Why would I be asking you? I don’t even know what you’re talking about.’

She said, ‘Well they’re saying they’re Pleiadians. I don’t know, but that’s what they’re telling me. And they’re saying that you’re from the Pleiades and they have brought you here to do something, they have something for you to do.’

And I said, ‘Wow. Well, while you’re talking to them, ask them what is it [that] I’m supposed to be doing here.’

And she said, ‘They’re telling me to tell you first of all,’ – because she’s a past life regressionist – she said, ‘They’re telling me to tell you, you don’t need a past life regression. You need to get this life straight, don’t worry about your past ones. Get this one right.’

And then she said, ‘And they’re telling me that you are brought here to be a channel. They’re going to channel messages through you, but not for a long time yet. Not now. But ultimately that’s what they’re going to do, is they’re going to use you as a channel. And they’re going to put you into a position where you will be heard by important people. And when that time comes, they will speak through you. But they’re telling me to remind you: you are not an ambassador, you are an emissary.

An ambassador speaks for the government he represents. You do not speak for anyone. An emissary merely delivers a message. You’re not speaking for anyone. And they’re telling me to tell you to make sure you understand that. So that you’re an emissary, not an ambassador. And you will be able to just deliver the message, and the message will come from them through you. But not now. There will come a time when you will be speaking before important people, and the people who are supposed to know, will know who you are. You don’t know, but they will know. And when they’re listening to you, they will know who you really are. So, they’re telling me to tell you: just get this one right.’

And then she starts laughing and I said, ‘What are you laughing about?’

She said, ‘They just told me something funny about you. They told me about four or five weeks ago you rented a Chrysler convertible and you drove up there, and went out on the same road that they saw you on the last time, and you didn’t want to go out that night because you were scared, but you went out in the afternoon. And you sat with your feet in the back seat.’

And I was thinking, I never told anyone this. She was exactly right.

And she said, ‘And you sat with your feet in the back seat, and you said to them that you didn’t mind doing what you’re supposed to do but you didn’t want to be frightened in your bedroom or abducted. And they thought that was funny. They got a laugh out of that one.’

And I said, ‘Why would they think that’s funny?’

And she said, ‘Because if you knew where you have come from, and what you look like where you came from as opposed to what you look like now as a human, do you think you would be scared? Wait until you die and go back to where you come from. That’s really going to be a shock to you. So, they just thought that was humorous.

You don’t want to be frightened? Wait until you die. You’ve got a real trip coming when you go back to who you really were and where you’ve come from.’

And she said, ‘But they’re telling me to tell you: No ones gonna harm you. We give you something to do and we have been watching you from Day 1. So, just remember we’re watching you, and you will do whatever it is we have in mind for you to do.’

And I thought, Wow, man, I’ve never heard such stuff in my life. It’s an incredible story.

I don’t know. I’m just telling you what happened.

BR: And it all fits together, right?

JM: Yeah, it all kind of …

BR: These accounts all fit together, in a way that suggests... I mean, you’ve got a number of data points here, and you’ve put it all together, and it says that you’re sent here, that you’re widely respected by everyone up there and down here. That you’ve got a job to do, that you’re being watched, that you’re being protected. You don’t know what the heck’s going on all this time…

JM: I have no idea.

BR: ...which actually I think is really funny myself. And here you are at the ripe old age of nearly 70 and you’re still trying to figure it out, and you don’t even know whether you’ve done yet what you’ve come here to do! [laughs]

JM: That’s exactly right. And the reason why is because I’m not even sure what it is I’m supposed to do to start with, so how would I know if I’ve done it.


I’ve always known that I have always had this other-world connection. Even as a child, I went out of body, I had spirit entities coming into my bedroom when I was six and seven years old. I saw things and I went out of my body. That’s another experience when I was eight years old: I went out to a terrible accident and I was there and saw the accident happen. I came back into my body and told my parents what had happened.

The next morning in the newspaper exactly what I said happened exactly as I said, because I was there and I saw it, and I was there at the accident and saw all the details of what happened. And the next morning in the newspaper, exactly what I said happened was in the newspaper.

And so I’ve had aliens at my window, at night in Florida. When I wake up at night I see this little creature at my window. Because as a little kid I pulled my bed up next to the window, and in Florida it’s very hot at night, and so I pulled my bed right up next to window. I have a screen and I... because I would like to lay in bed at night [and] look at the stars and talk to the spirits.

And I would wake up in the middle of the night and there’d be a little head [that] would move. It would not move so quick I didn’t see it, but it would move when I woke up and I’d see it. And I immediately opened up the screen and the yard was well lit up from a full moon, my dog was out there – didn’t bark at all – and yet I know I saw something move. And I would do it many times. Many times I would wake up in the middle of the night and I’d see a little head move quickly. And so... but when I’d look out, the dog didn’t see anything and there is nothing in the yard.

Something was there. So I grew up having other-world experiences, seeing aliens, having demonic spirits come in my bedroom…


BR: Some people watching this will already have heard you tell this story in the September 2009 Project Camelot interview. Is it possible that you could give another abbreviated version of that encounter with your girlfriend’s father?

JM: Oh yeah, yeah.

BR: Because that fits together so perfectly with these stories you’ve been telling here. It’s kind of nice if it’s all in the same bundle…

JM: Yeah, yeah. That’s fine. In 1959, fifty-nine, I was 19 years old, born in 1940. So fifty-nine, I was 19, and I ended up in Los Angeles. I had to go to Los Angeles for some reason. So I ended up there, I have no money, I don’t know where I am, I’m in a big city, I don’t know what I’m doing here – but, you know, I was a kid on the run – so here I am in L.A.

And one morning in North Hollywood, I went in a restaurant, in North Hollywood, 1959, and the place was full so there’s no room anywhere except for one seat at the counter. So I took the seat at the counter and there was a girl sitting next to me. She was probably... I was 19, she’s probably like 17 or so, a little younger than I.

So we started talking and come to find out, she only lived a couple blocks from me and I only lived about three blocks from town and she lived two blocks from me. She had walked downtown, and I had walked downtown. So we hung around town for a while and then we walked home together. And then we started meeting on the Saturdays and Sundays; I’d meet her downtown and we’d just hang out together and then when we’d walk home. She lived two blocks further than me, so I never walked home with her but she knew where I lived.

And one night, it was on a Friday night, it was a very eventful thing that happens. One night on a Friday night, she knocked on my door about 10:00 at night and she said, ‘My dad wants to talk to you.’ And, of course, I don’t want to talk to anybody’s dad; and I said, ‘I don’t want to talk to him. I got nothing to say to him.’ And she said, ‘My father’s a very important and interesting man, he wants, he’s got something to tell you. You need to come with me.’

I said, ‘Okay.’ So I went. And as I was walking with her up to the house, he happened by chance to be coming out of the house. And the moment I saw him, the hair raised up on the back of my neck, because of the feeling, the involuntary feeling I got, was so overwhelming. And I was shocked at the feeling I got from him. I guess, with an immediacy, I knew there’s something strange about this man. I’m feeling it already. But I love it!

It’s not fearful; it’s a trip! I don’t know who this guy is but I can’t get enough of this feeling. And so he made the [makes the gesture of inviting in] Come on in. And the thing I noticed about him immediately is I’ve never seen anyone more in control of themselves than him. He knew precisely what he was doing; the way he moved, his mannerisms, his whole demeanor was very strange. [He] said, ‘Come on in.’

And I thought, Wow, I don’t know who this is but I’m feeling something here. So I went in and we’re sitting on the sofa. I’m sitting on one end, he’s sitting on the other end of the sofa, my girlfriend is sitting on the floor with her younger sister about ten years old, they’re sitting on the floor. The mother’s in the kitchen or somewhere in the back room and he’s just talking; just small talk, asking me how do you like your job and how do you like living in California, and my daughter says that you have been very kind to her and I want to thank you for treating my daughter with respect, and we were talking back and forth, just little stuff.

And I was beginning to feel a little bit better about him; he’s talking normal human things. So I’m feeling a little bit better, a little bit more at ease and, he knew that. And then he said to me, he said, ‘Remember back when you were eight years old and back in Florida and your dad built a new back porch? Remember the back porch was falling apart and your dad and your dad’s brother; they built a new back porch at the house and your dad used green lumber, [it] smelled funny because it was green lumber and, you remember that when your dad built that back porch?’

And... it shocked me, and I didn’t want to show tears in front of my girlfriend but it was shocking. And I said ‘Yes.’

And he said: Well, did that happen?

I said: Yes. It did.

And he says then: Remember one night, you were in bed and you got out of bed and you went out on the back porch, remember? And the moon was really bright. And remember how you picked the wood with your finger; you were peeling the wood because it smelled funny at night the green lumber, and you picked it and was smelling the wood? You remember doing that?

And again, I was even more frightened and I said: Yes.

And he said: Well, did you do that or didn’t you?

I said: Yes, I did.

And he said: And what else did you do? You talked to God, didn’t you?

And I said: Yes.

And he said: What did you say to God? Remember, you looked up at the moon and you talked to God.

And I was just looking at him. I was scared and he said, ‘What did you do? You said to God that you would like to do something important with your life. Isn’t that what you said?’

And I said: Yeah, that’s what I said.

He said: Well, that’s why you’re here. We brought you here to let you do something important with your life. After all, you asked. And so, we’ve decided to give you something important to do.

And I said: I don’t understand.

He says: It’s not important. But you did say that, didn’t you?

- Yes.

- How would I know that? How did I know all of that?

And I said: I don’t know how you know that.

And he said: I know that because we were there. When you were talking to God, we were there. So, you wanted an opportunity to do something, so we’re going to give you an opportunity to do something. [laughs]

And I said, ‘Who is we? Who are you talking about?’

He said: That’s not important right now. You’ll learn later.

And he said: But we also... He said, ‘You’re very interested in UFOs and aliens and spooky stuff like that, aren’t you?’

And I said: Yeah, I’m very interested.

And he said: Yeah I know. We know that. And he said: Would you like to see some UFOs tonight?

And I said: Yes, I’d like to.

He said: Well, I can do that for you. Come on. I’ll show you.

So I got up with him, and the two girls got up, and the two girls, myself and the father, the four of us go out in the front lawn, probably about midnight, 1959. And he looks up in the sky and he starts inaudibly talking. He’s moving his mouth, he’s talking, but you can’t hear him. And then he turns to me and he said, ‘They said they’ll be here in a couple minutes. They’ll be coming from over here... southeast. They’ll be coming here in a couple minutes.’

And I said: Who?

And he said: You’ll see. You wanted to see UFOs, right?


- Well, just wait. They’ll be here.

And so I look at my girlfriend and she’s looking at me, and the look on her face was, it was, she was saying to me, ‘Yeah, I told you my father was an interesting and important man. I told you.’ And I was looking at her trying to imagine, Is this a trick or some... but how would he know the things about me that he knew? And who is this man that I’m fascinated with?

And sure enough, a couple minutes later, three UFOs, disc-shaped things about the size of the full moon in the sky – that’s how big they were, not a little light, full-moon size, three of them, come out over in a triangle formation and stop right over the top of me, right over the top of us. And I’m looking up at this, and the bottoms – they were all three identical – making no sound, and they’re all three circulating like a pie with six or eight slices and each slice is a different color, but they were vibrant colors, like laser colors. Very vibrant. Oranges, pinks and greens. And they were circulating, but not so fast as to blend the colors. And... three of them.

And I’m standing there looking at them thinking, My God, this is beautiful. And it’s such an eerie feeling. It’s quiet at night. It’s late. I’m standing out here with a man that’s blowing my mind, and I’m looking at three UFOs. And then he looks up and starts inaudibly talking to them again. And he said, ‘They said that they’re leaving now. They’re going now.’ And so they did. They started moving. They went north very slow, very slow, until they were out of sight.

And I said: What was that?

And he said: That’s us. And he said: Why are you in California? Why did you come here?

And I said: I don’t know. I have no idea.

He said: That’s right. We brought you here. You said you wanted to do something for God, didn’t you?

- Yes.

- Well, then, we have brought you here so that you can do something for God.

And I said: I don’t understand what you’re talking about.

He says: We have something for you to do, and we’ve been watching you from day one. We’ve already decided a long time ago, even before you were eight years old, we’ve already decided. So we brought you here to start you on your journey, to begin your life for you. We’re going to guide your life, so that you learn what you’re supposed to.

You have all the experiences that we will see to it that you will have, so that one day, he said, what you’re going to do for us will not happen until the last part of your life. It’s going to be the very last part of your life, but when that day comes, you will know what it is you will have to do. You will know what it is you will have to do. Right now it’s not important. You just go on out and live your life.

We will see to it that you meet who you’re supposed to, and learn what you’re supposed to, and when it’s time we’ll let you know what you need to do. We’ll be there.

And so, I used to go over to his house. That night, he said, ‘To start you on your journey, tonight – I’m going to start you on your new journey, where you’re going, in your life – I’m going to give you a book.’ The book he gave me was called The Complete Works of Charles Fort, F-o-r-t. Charles Fort is very well known for his work.

BR: Hmm.

JM: He actually wrote three books, probably a lot more, but the three most important books were put into one big volume, now, and so you can get it as a very thick volume, called The Complete Works of Charles Fort.

And what made his book so interesting, and why the father gave it to me, is that Charles Fort has documented, a thick book, on all the strangest things which have happened in the world, which were documented, and which have no explanation at all. No one even ventures to even try and answer them. It’s just strange stuff that have happened, and no one has any idea how, or what it means, and he documents it.

But what makes his book so interesting is that he documents everything with every paragraph. No matter, every paragraph has documentation: where he saw this, where he found this. You know, where he got this information, where he got that information, and what page it was on, who wrote the article, and everything. So you could find anything. It’s all right there, documented. Paragraph by paragraph.

And the kind of things [that] he found were just so extraordinary, mind-blowing stuff, but it’s all there. The world is filled with strange things that have happened that nobody has any explanation for. And when he gave me that book, I know he gave it to me because it opened up my mind to the occult world. Occult simply means hidden. So that book opened my mind at 19 years old to... because I had already been well involved in the other-world knowledge and strange stuff in my childhood.

But for the first time, I had it documented, strange stuff, that nobody understands how it happened, and it’s all documented in one book. And that, I believe, he gave me that book to get me started in realizing that the world is far stranger than you imagine. Far, far stranger. I like that one quote of the astronomer, I think it was, who said: The universe is not stranger than you imagine. The universe is stranger than you can imagine.

BR: That was the great British astronomer and physicist Sir Arthur Eddington.

JM: Incredible quote. That’s exactly right. And when you read Charles Fort’s book, you think, Wow, this stuff actually happened? You know, and it just defies your imagination as to what all of these incidents....

And so, to get me interested, he said, ‘Let me give you an idea about what’s in the book.’ And it was a big thick book, and he just opened it up, just nonchalantly, opened it up to a page. I now know that it was not nonchalant. He knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly how to get my attention. It’s other-worldly how he knew, my psyche and my spirit, to get my attention.

And he says, ‘Let me read you something.’ And the first thing he read me was about a city, a little town, a small town in California, mid-California. Back in the 1860’s I think, 1870’s. And it’s happened to that little town two or three times, in that same town. On a clear day, on a sunny clear day with no clouds in the sky, enormous boulders, tons and tons of boulders would fall out of the sky, on a clear day. And they had newspaper people there reporting it. That town’s people saw it, but the thing that made it interesting is that the boulders were like, some of them two and three tons a piece, falling out of a clear blue sky.

But they didn’t fall at the normal rate of speed. It took all day for them to come down. All day long, they come down slow. And when they hit the ground, they would bury themselves in the ground where they normally would, at normal speed, and the dirt would fly up very slow, all in slow motion. And the whole thing was... you could sit and watch it all day long. It was all in slow motion. But when the rock had finally settled, it would be exactly where it would have been, normally, and it would be exactly the way, you know, what would have happened normally, but it took all day for it to happen.

So it was obviously a time warp. That these things were coming from somewhere out there, in a time warp, and hitting this little town. This happened two or three times in the same town. And it’s documented, it really happened. And if a house or a car or something was in the way, it’s too bad, because this thing is just coming down and it would just crash right through the house, crash through the car or whatever, and there’s nothing you’re going to do to stop them, because they were in another time warp. And how do you explain that? Nobody could. But that’s just... and then he looked at me and he said, ‘That’s just one story.’

And he said, ‘Here’s another one.’ And he just run through the book and found another page and read another paragraph. And the second paragraph was even stranger than the first one. And he read me about three or four different paragraphs, and he said, ‘Do you see what I’m talking about?’ And I said, ‘Yes, I love this book, I love this stuff.’ So he said, ‘Well I’m giving it to you. Go read it.’

And so I started going over to the house. Sometimes I’d go over in the evenings after work. I’d go over and sit and talk with him and he would tell me all kinds of strange things about what it’s like on other worlds out there, and who’s here on the Earth and where they’ve come from. The different alien life forms, where they’ve come from and why they’re here.

BR: Do you remember anything about what he told you?

JM: Yeah, well, he ... we used to go up to Palmdale. Two or three times he and the two girls and the wife and myself, and those were incredible precious times. The girl would come over and say, ‘We’re going up this morning. Come with us.’ And I’d go over there and we’d go, I’ll go in his car and we go up in the desert about 50 miles north of Los Angeles up in the high desert, and it’s way out in the desert. And the girls would go with their mom and they’d be wandering around the desert.

But he and I would go, and he would show me mounds and holes, and the mounds and holes in the Earth that I’d never seen before, and he says, ‘These were made by aliens many many years ago. I want to show you...’ And we went to some mines also. He knew where these different mines were. But he was telling me that there are certain places under the earth that these particular aliens live, where they stay. It’s under the earth.

And he said, ‘I’ll show a couple of the places, but you don’t want to go in them. It’s their property and not yours. So... and they look at it very jealously as their property. So don’t mess with their property. Don’t go in. They didn’t ask you to come in. But as long as I’m with you, you’ll be all right, because I’ll tell you where not to go.’

BR: Do you remember where those places were...

JM: Yeah.

BR: And who those aliens were, and what [they’re doing there]?

JM: I don’t remember the names of aliens, or the exact information, but I remember where those places are.

BR: Where are they?

JM: Well, pity, I would say, I can’t take you right to it, but I can take you to the area and say: Okay. Let’s go out here and you’ll find them. It’s off in Palmdale, off of, what is it, Pear Blossom Highway? I think it’s Pear Blossom Highway. And it’s off of Pear Blossom Highway, but I’d have to get out there and I would know it when I see it. Even though it’s changed a lot out there. But I remember about a year or so ago I was driving from Vegas, coming back through. And I remember this area and I slowed down and stopped and I remembered this dirt road. So it’s still there. It still hasn’t been built up and built over.

BR: And what’s the story, as best you remember, of what these aliens are doing in that area? Do you remember anything about what he told you?

JM: [sighs] Not really. He was... I think, basically, what I got from it and what I remembered from it, was that there were different ones here. And that there are good ones and bad ones, and he said that even some of the good ones here.... he said, ‘But we have enemies. They have come here, and we have other business out there with them. And since we’re here, they came here. And so we have enemies here. Not human enemies. We got serious enemies here. But we got a standoff. We’re powerful and they are, too, but we got kind of like a standoff. But we have enemies. And we are their enemy.’

And so... and he was telling me about the reptile aliens. That was back in 1959.

BR: And what did he tell you about that?

JM: I don’t remember specifically but I just remember him talking about reptile aliens, and I really didn’t comprehend what he was talking about exactly. It was such a strange concept to me. Reptile aliens. At 1959. I don’t even know what he was talking about.

But the one thing that stands out in my mind about everything is that I knew that this man was absolutely of another world, and I connected with it. It was as if I was... it wasn’t that I understood it and was into it. No, no. This was part of me. It’s part of my person, who I am. But he was initiating me into a secret of who I really am. And I felt it. I just felt I am part of him. I know now who I am, and I know that I’m not of this world. And that was just an overwhelming feeling I had. I just loved it, I loved being around him, because when I was around him, I was in my world. I was with my people, so to speak. And God, that was an incredible experience, being in his company.

And one day I went over to – in the morning, it’s on a weekend morning – I went over to see if he was going to go anywhere, and he was gone. They just left. The house was empty, the doors were all open, windows were all open. They were just gone, never to see them again. And she didn’t come to tell me she was leaving. Only two blocks. She could have told me she was going. And it was like my family. They left me. They’re gone. And I walked home so dejected. I couldn’t believe my family, this wonderful association, this wonderful man that I know, and this family, and they’re all gone, and no one said anything to me. And I often wondered, whatever happened to, why did they leave and never told me?

But now I look back on those years and my gut feeling is, he did what he was supposed to do. He did what he was supposed to do. Get me started. Other people will come into my life who is part of his group, and they will continue to move me along. The old man in the truck, he was the next, he was connected, too. And, you know, all these different people I’ve met and all these strange things, they were part of the same group who were just kind of around me; and every time I need a little encouragement, they’ll pop in at the right moment and give you another mind-blowing experience and then they’ll move on again. So it’s like they’re moving you through life, but watching you.

BR: Some people watching this video now, may have already seen my interview with Freedom Central in November 2009, and I don’t want to steal your thunder here by jumping in with my story, but just as a very brief summary, in that interview, I told how back in 1984 or 1985 – which was when I was 31, 32 years old – I had a girlfriend who I began to realize after a number of years, wasn’t an ordinary human being.

And she left me out of the blue, and what triggered this little story here was your going to their house and being devastated when you’d discovered that they’d gone. And I was devastated when my girlfriend left me. And she told me, she said – and this not usually how people end a relationship – she said, ‘My purpose in your life is complete.’ She told me. [laughs]

I had no way of handling that. I had absolutely no way of handling that at all. I was devastated for quite a long time. Now, of course, I understand it much more clearly. In exactly the way that you’ve presented it, which was that there was a coaching and a mentoring and guiding going on. I needed that catalyst, that catalytic experience...

JM: That’s right.

BR: that stage of my life in order... no, let me start that sentence again: without which I might not be doing what I’m doing at the moment.

JM: That’s precisely right.

BR: And it’s the same with you.

JM: Exactly.

BR: And probably like you, I’ve heard these stories from many people all over the world, and while none of them are identical, many of them have the same theme.

JM: Mm-hm.

BR: I assume that you get people writing to you about this stuff as well.

JM: Oh yeah. Absolutely. I sure have.

So that’s why I know that I have a connection with him. And with something greater that’s out there. That I know. That’s what has led me all of my life, in spite of everything that has happened to me, and all the setbacks and all the tragedies and all the horror stories that’s happened to me. I have always known that there is something out there and it’s watching you, you know [chuckles], and you’re just merely a part of something other-worldly that’s going on. There’s something else going on here on the Earth and it’s not of this world, and whatever it is, it could be aliens... It’s probably alien life forms, but somebody else is in charge. That’s why I have said, and we’ve talked about this before, I don’t mind, you know, letting someone else guide my life. I don’t mind that at all.

BR: And another analogy that I could offer here, not wanting to trivialize it, but it’s like if you are a football player – and I know what you think about ball games, but some of the people here watching this video might appreciate the analogy – it’s like a tough ball game. And you’re out there, on the football field. And you’re getting slammed into, and you’re getting winded, and you’re getting knocked down, and you’re getting bruised, and you’re wishing that you weren’t there, and you’re having a tough time... And you think, God, this is a, this is a ... okay, I’m not really enjoying this game anymore.

And then, during the break in the game, you go and talk to the coach. And then the coach reminds you what it is that you’re doing, and why you’re a valuable team player, and how come you’re going to win the next game, because you won the last game, and this one is tough, but you haven’t lost it yet. You know?

JM: Yeah. Then it kind of gives you a new thing, when this game goes back, you’re ready to go back in and do it again.

BR: That’s right.

JM: Yeah. You’re right.

BR: And I’m not trivializing this by referring to the concept of games, but if we see it all from a higher level then when we’re in the game, it feels like it’s life and death.

JM: You’re right.

BR: At the end of the game, you think, Hey, that was a good game. Let’s go and have a beer.

JM: Yeah.

BR: You know?

JM: You’re right. Yep.

BR: And for me, that’s a concept that works quite well.

JM: I think you’re right. My feeling is you’re right. That’s exactly right. Somebody’s watching, and the higher authority, when it sees that you need it, like just kind of slipping out a little bit because you’re human, and they give you a little picking up around to remind you who you are, and what you’re here for.

Did I ever tell you what happened to me in New Jersey, when I went back to do the ABC network show? I didn’t tell you that, did I?

BR: So far it doesn’t ring a bell.

JM: Okay.

BR: Tell it anyway. It doesn’t matter whether you told me.

JM: I did a radio show in Los Angeles. My first radio show I had ever done as a interview, the first time I was ever interviewed on radio, was Tom Leykis. Tom Leykis, in LA? Very famous talk-show host. And Tom Leykis called and wanted me on his show. Well, it was very famous talk-show host. You get on his show and you’ve been somewhere.

And it was on one of the biggest stations in town in LA, and he was the biggest talk-show host at the time.

So I went on, and I did a two-hour show with him – the first time I was ever on a radio doing an interview – and I got such an enormous response from the audience. But one guy called and said, ‘Jordan, I live in New York, I’m the producer of the Bob Grant Show, on ABC network in New York City.’

He said, ‘Would you come to New York and do what you did on Tom Leykis’ show, come to New York and do it on ABC network?’

And I said, ‘Yeah, I would love to.’ Since I don’t know what I’m doing anyway, so... And so, I went to New York, and I was ... but when I got in, it was on a Sunday morning, I flew into New Jersey. And they had me have a hotel room in New Jersey at the airport hotel, and the next day they would have a car on Monday. I was going to be doing the interview, they were sending a car to pick me up to bring me into New York.

And so, I was so tired, because I hadn’t slept a day or so before; I was nervous, you know, this was only the second time I’ve ever done a radio interview. And it’s ABC network, New York City, all right? And I’m nervous, and I didn’t know what I was doing, but I figured this was part of who I am, so just grin and bear it.

And so, I got in the hotel room, I was so tired I just collapsed on the bed, and I said out loud, I said, ‘Am I here by myself, doing this, or do I have somebody here that can help me?’

And all of the sudden the bed lifted up. And as it began to move around the room, I was startled. The bed’s floating around the room! And it floated over towards the window. And I remember thinking, ‘If it hits that window, I’m jumping off this bed. I’m not going out the window with this bed.’

And as it comes to the window, it turned around, and the bed turned completely around, and I’m on it, and I’m looking at this bed turning around, and I’m amazed, but I was startled. I ... I don’t know what to think of this. And then the bed turned back around again, where it was supposed to, and then sat down.

And I thought, and I said, ‘Thank you.’ And... I guess that’s all you can say. You’d better just go to bed and go to sleep. [laughs]

BR: [laughs]

JM: And I just laid down and thought about what in the hell did I just experience? This bed floated around the room, and then floated back into place and sat down, and I was so tired I just thought, ‘Well, they didn’t hurt me, so I’m going to go to sleep.’ So...

BR: Sounds like the coach in your football game has got quite a sense of humor.

JM: Yeah, exactly. [Laughs] Am I here by myself? No, no, the room is full with things you just don’t know. You don’t see it.

So they moved the bed around. I swear, it just scared me ... it was such an experience having that bed move me around the room. It was incredible.

BR: In answer to your question. You never ... [laughs]

JM: Oh...

BR: ... you never told me that one.

JM: ... I always got ... I always get a answer.

BR: That’s fabulous.

JM: The most extraordinary thing, I think, that’s truly off the wall that happened to me, and I’ve had so many things like that [laughs], I’ll tell you. But this really happened. As crazy as it sounds, this actually happened.

I was spending a long weekend at a friend’s house in Los Angeles, up in the canyons. He had a home, way up in the canyons, in the mountains, overlooking Los Angeles. And I had a young friend of mine, from Orange County, that was friends with the owner also, and so he said, ‘Why don’t both of you guys come up and hang out for the long weekend, with us, with the family.’

So we did. So he give us the top bedroom; it was a three-tier home, up in the canyons, way up in the mountains, overlooking L.A. And so we had the top part, which is a big, huge bedroom, and a pool ... a pool table, and all kinds of stuff up there, and we were staying there for, like, three or four days.

Well, we went out at night, and there was a ladder on the roof at the top part. So we took some pillows out and some blankets, and we went up and took a couple beers with us; and we sat up there, and laid out there under the stars at night, just my friend and I, and talking and chatting about stuff, and I got to talking about God, and the spirit world. And I have no idea why I did it, but we were both sitting up looking at Los Angeles, beautiful lights of the city, and we’re sitting up on the roof, and for some reason, I said, ‘God, if you are hearing me, would you have a meteorite hit this mountain here.’

And when I said that, a meteor went [makes a hurtling, then a boom sound], and hit the mountain.

And he was shocked, and I was shocked. And we both looked at each other. And for a moment, we would try to realize what just happened. And I said to my friend ... and I looked at him. And he says, ‘What did you just do?’

And I said, ‘I … I don’t know. I just ... I don’t know why I said that.’

BR: [Laughs]

JM: And it happened. I said, ‘Would you hit the mountain with a meteor,’ and that very moment, boom, it hit. And the whole ... all the lights in the Box Canyon, all the lights came on in all the homes, because the ground shook. And people came out with flashlights up in the hills, you could see them, and you could ... people were scared. That mountain was shook. And I sat there and was amazed. Why did I say that, just a few seconds before it happened? That is truly amazing to me.

I have no idea in the world, it’s one of those freaky things that there’s no explanation for. I don’t know why I said it, and I have no idea why it happened the way it did. It was truly extraordinary.

The young man that was up there with me, he still lives in Las Vegas, and we talk about it from time to time; this is strange stuff.

Did I tell you about my friend, Bob Leeds?

I have a young ... I have an older friend named Bob Leeds. He’s a big shot in the motion-picture industry. Well, that’s a long story. But, well, there’s two parts to this story, and it’s very long, it’s like another long one. But, anyway, Bob Leeds ... I’ll tell you the short version.

Bob Leeds is a good friend of mine, but he was a very well-placed Jewish guy in the motion-picture business in Hollywood. And he and I were dear friends, very close friends. And so, Bob called me one morning, one Saturday morning, and said, ‘I’m going to take you out to breakfast. Let’s go out to breakfast.’

I said, ‘Okay.’

So, he said, ‘I’m going to take you to any of the best ... any place you want to go in San Diego, it’s my treat.’

And so I said, ‘Great.’

So he said, ‘Any place you want to go, we’ll go.’

And I said, ‘Okay.’

So he comes by and picks me up, and ... God, I love Bob. Bob was great.

And, so I said, ‘I want to go to...’ Oh, what was the name of the town, just north of San Diego? It’s a little Mexican town, north of San Diego. I can’t remember the name right now, I’ll remember it in a minute. But it’s in a little dippy, little nothing town, north of ...

And he said, ‘No, what I had in mind was going into downtown San Diego, to some really nice place.’

And I said to him, I said, ‘You said I could go wherever I want to go.’

He said, ‘That’s right.’

I said, ‘Well, that’s where I want to go, to this little dippy little town, north of here.’

And he says, ‘There’s nothing there.’

And I said, ‘That’s where I want to go.’

He said, ‘Okay, so we go there, then.’

So we get on the freeway, it’s about a twenty-minute drive, and so as we’re driving, we were talking about stuff. And we got on the subject of people that we would love to see again. People we’ve known in the past that we’d like to see again.

And I was telling him some couple people I would love to see in my life again that I’ve lost track of, and then he was telling me, he said, ‘Well, there’s two people that fit that for me.’ He said, ‘There’s an old Native American Indian chief, Native American Indian, that I grew up knowing, and he was like my second father.’

And he said, ‘I loved him, and I just ... I would give anything in the world if I could see him again, the family again. I don’t even know if he’s alive. The people that knew him and knew me, I’ve asked them. And they don’t even know where he went. He’s gone, nobody knows. That’s the one man I would really like to see, is that old Native American Indian and his family.’

And he said, ‘And the other guy was a guy I went to school with and grew up with. He became a Mormon, and he became very wealthy, he’s a real-estate developer, construction. But I’ve lost track of him, and he was one of my dearest friends in my life. And I’ve lost him, too. I don’t know where he went. Nobody that knew him knows, either. So those are two people I’d like to see.’

And so we were talking about other things. So we get off the freeway, in this little Mickey Mouse town, and we’re driving through the city, and there’s no place to eat, except IHOP ... International House of Pancakes. Well, they’re everywhere.

And so, I said, ‘Oh, there’s an IHOP. Let’s go there. That’s where I want to go.’

And he says, ‘Jordan, I was going to take you to a nice restaurant in San Diego, and you come up to this little town, to go to an IHOP?’

And I said, ‘That’s where I want to go. Come on, you say I could go, that’s where I want to go.’

He said, ‘Okay, we’ll go to IHOP.’

So we pull in and we park, and we go in, and this place is crowded because it’s the only place in town to eat, and then finally they seat us, and when we’re sitting down, he ... all of the sudden, his whole demeanor changed. I saw something was very, very radically wrong with him. I could tell it in his face, I could tell there was something wrong.

And I said, ‘What’s going on, Bob? What’s wrong?’

And he said, ‘There is the old man, right there, and there’s my friend, the contractor, right there. Both of them. That’s the old man, and there’s my contractor friend.’

BR: [Laughs]

JM: ‘Both of them.’ And he said to me, ‘I don’t know how you do this, but understand from this day forward, I believe you are somebody. I have never seen this. I just got through telling you I wanted to see these two people, and out of nowhere we come up here, and here they are. So you’ve sold me. I don’t know who you are, or where you’ve come from, or what you’re doing, but there’s something strange about you.’

And so I was amazed. And he, he had like tears in his eyes. He got up, went over and sat with the old man, and then his buddy saw him, he goes over there, and they’re all sitting around the table talking. … I don’t know what’s happening. I didn’t know. I just wanted to go to IHOP. So...

BR: That’s a lovely story. That’s a beautiful story...

JM: Incredible.

BR: ...beautiful story.

JM: And he had like tears in his eyes. He came back, and as we were driving home, he said, ‘I don’t know who you are, and I don’t know how this happened. But as far as I’m concerned, I’m never questioning anything again.’

He said, ‘I’ve had so many strange experiences around you, strange stuff, but today, that was a ... that took the cake today. I am totally, cannot believe what just happened today: The two people in my life I have wanted to see, and you brought me up here to this little town, out of nowhere to an IHOP, and there they both were. So wow.’

BR: This is the kind of stuff you wouldn’t dare write that into a movie. You know...

JM: I know. [Laughs] That’s right.

BR: You’d be thrown out, you know? You’re thrown out as the ... being unrealistic.

JM: Yeah, Bob Leeds. Bob Leeds.

BR: Wonderful story.

JM: And, ah...

BR: Thank you. You said that...

JM: There was something else I was going to tell you, but I can’t remember. I...

BR: There’s a whole bunch of things you were going to tell us.

JM: Oh, yeah. About the reptilian stuff, too.

BR: Just for the ... just for the benefit of the people watching this video here, we’re all kind of getting a bit giddy, because it’s past 3 o’clock in the morning here in central Europe...

JM: [Laughs].

BR: [Laughs] ... and, ah...

JM: And see, I slept late, so I’m full of life right now.

BR: Yeah, see, Jordan’s doing fine. He’s on the west coast so he’s fine.

JM: Yeah, I’m doing fine, I’m on a roll, so...

BR: He don’t have any time, he’s just about ready for lunch.

JM: [Laughs].

BR: But, you said that you wanted to tell us some more reptilian stories, and one of them is a staggering one which you did tell in your September 2009 interview, and you said you had more, and...

JM: Oh, yeah.

BR: ...these are significant, in my own opinion, because of what you yourself said in the September interview, that it’s actually quite important to rescue David Icke from being lampooned as the only person who’s, quote, inventing all these stories about reptilians, and you know that these are not inventions. And you have heard many of these stories.

JM: I’ve heard these stories as far back as 1959.

BR: And you even brought some of the stories to his attention.

JM: That’s right. I brought some of these actual stories to his attention, yes.

BR: And he was very courageous in coming forth very publicly...

JM: I know.

BR: make this into a...

JM: And I think I even said that. I said that on the stage up in San Jose, when David was speaking and I was, too, at a conference, and at the end of the conference there was a question and answer, in which David was on the stage, and I was, too.

And I said at that conference, I said, ‘I have my ... I am totally committed to the fact that there are reptile aliens here on the Earth. Of that there is no doubt in my mind. But it’s not because David Icke is saying so. I’ve known this long before David Icke ever came into the picture. Many years ago, I have had many different stories told to me, by very powerful people, people who are well-grounded, highly intelligent, well respected people over the years have told me of their personal, one-on-one encounters with reptile aliens.

I have to believe when that many people, that well-grounded intelligent people tell me things – like airline pilots, bankers, real-estate executives who are telling me their personal, one-on-one experience with alien, reptile aliens, I have to assume there must be something to it.’

BR: Well, that’s very good of you to publicly take some of the pressure off David...

JM: Yeah.

BR: ...because David has been ridiculed for this, so let’s all be ridiculed for this...

JM: Yeah, yeah.

BR: ...and maybe more people will come forward with their stories.

JM: There’s no doubt in my mind that they are here.

BR: Because it’s one of the most important stories on this planet right now, and people need to know whatever the truth is. People need to know. And I’d love you to tell some more stories, which you believe are authentic...

JM: Yes.

BR: ...that have been reported to you, to add to the chronicles.

JM: I was doing a radio show, I was being interviewed on the Lou Epton show, in Las Vegas, many years ago; quite a few years, I’m thinking, maybe ‘89? I think it was ‘89. Or ‘88. So we’re talking quite a few years ago. And Lou Epton at that time ... dear, dear friend, Lou Epton. I love him dearly, he was a very, very wonderful man.

He’s still with us; he’s in Las Vegas, retired. But he had a major talk-show in Las Vegas, during the morning, morning talk-show. And I had one at night, a nighttime talk-show. But Lou had ... but I was in Los Angeles, and Lou called me to do an interview. And it was a two-hours show. And back in ‘88, I think it was.

But anyway, in the process, I brought up the subject of the reptile aliens. And my belief about the reptile aliens and what the ancient peoples of the ancient world, the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Phoenician Canaanites, the Egyptians – especially the Sumerians – all the ancient peoples of the world talked about the reptile aliens. And so, I just brought that up in passing, that I think there are reptile aliens here. I’ve heard too many stories, and then I told some of those stories that I had heard.

Well, after the program, I got a phone call from a guy who later on I had found out is an extremely wealthy businessman in Las Vegas. He buys and sells hotels and commercial properties in Vegas, and he was the biggest there.

And he said to me, he said, ‘Jordan, we listen to Lou Epton, we love Lou Epton, so in the office in the mornings we listen to Lou Epton on the show. But this morning, when you came on, we started ... we got so interested in listening to you that everybody just kind of quit work for a little bit and was listening to you. And when you mentioned the reptile aliens, it shocked us.’

And he said, ‘I’m a Christian, and I have five men who work for me in my office, and they’re Christians, and they all belong to the same church. We all go to the same church, and all six of us are in the office, and we were hearing you today.’

And he said, ‘When you mentioned reptile aliens, I had to call you and tell you. We’re Christians. But every year, we go somewhere in the world on vacation, and my company pays for everything.’

And he says, ‘So I take all five families, all six families go together on a vacation somewhere. And last year ...’

Now, this was like in ‘88, so he’s talking about ‘87.

And he said, ‘Last year, we decided to go camping for a couple of weeks in Colorado.’

And he says, ‘We were up in the mountains and we broke camp one morning, and we walked up to the top of this mountain. We were almost there anyway, at camp, and then the next morning when we broke camp, we walked up to the top of the mountain to look over the lay of the land. Out in the valley, we could see that there had been an area that had been cleared away. It was like a round area that had been cleared away. And there was a circle of people out there, and they were all wearing robes, and they were all holding hands, and swaying back and forth, singing and chanting. You could barely hear them.’

But he said, ‘But it was very quiet where we were, and we could see that there was some kind of a ritual, dancing or swaying back and forth in a circle. They were all holding hands. And there was obviously somebody in the middle, like a priest or something in the middle.’

And he said, ‘This was out in the middle of nowhere, that these people are out here with this thing that they’re doing.’ And he said, ‘We’re up here in the mountains looking down on them, and while we were standing there looking at them, all of the sudden, a second figure popped up out of nowhere, but it was bigger than the man that was in the middle. It’s in the middle, too, but it’s much bigger. And it pointed up at us.’

And he said, ‘And all the singing stopped, everybody stopped and pointed,’ and he said, ‘We knew we’d been had.’

And he said, ‘We didn’t know what was going on, but whatever it was, it just popped in out of nowhere, pointed up at us, and everybody is now pointing at us. So we figured we’d better just get out of here.’

And he said, ‘When we turned around, it was standing behind us. That thing which was down there, was already behind us. That’s how quick it moved.’

He said, ‘When we turned around to run, there was a reptile alien standing behind us.’

He said, ‘This thing was at least seven to seven-and-a-half foot, to maybe eight foot tall, had a reptile male man’s head, but it was a reptile head. It was very muscular, looked like a human body, on the ordinary of a human body, but a reptile body, extremely muscular, and it was looking at us,’ and he said, ‘It cast some kind of a spell on us, so that the children and the women, no one could move. We were like frozen.’

And he said, ‘And even ... nobody could say anything. Nobody could cry, nobody could run, nobody could do anything. We were staring at it, and it was looking at us, but it had control over us. It had locked us so that we couldn’t move, we couldn’t scream, we couldn’t do anything.’

And he said, ‘And this thing was gazing at all of us, looking at the children, looking at the women. This reptile alien.’ And he says, ‘We are just Christians, in a church. But we saw a reptile alien. This thing was not of this world. This thing was looking at all of us, it looked at the men, and the look he gave us, we understood. He didn’t say anything, but we knew. He was saying, I’m going to leave you alone. But when I leave here, you’d better get out of here.’

And he said, ‘The alien walked over like he was leaving, [makes a brief sound] he was gone. Just like that, he was gone. When he was gone, the moment he was gone, everyone came back to life. And the babies were screaming, the women were yelling and screaming, everybody came back to life, instantly.’

And he says, ‘We ran like, like we were totally out of our minds. Running back to the cars, we ran down the hill, got in the cars, and the women were screaming, the children were yelling. Then we drove back, it was the most incredible, horrible experience.’

And he says, ‘All the guys in my office will tell you: we saw a reptile alien in Colorado. So, when you’re talking about reptile aliens and the ancient world, I got news for you: there’s one we know for sure, in Colorado. We saw him.’

And he said, ‘This thing ran back, and went so fast, it was just ... [makes a slapping sound] gone. But that’s how fast it came up behind us. We knew that we’d been spotted, we turned around, and it was too late: it’s already standing here.’

And he says, ‘So, when I hear tales now about people who have seen reptile aliens, I got to tell you, there’s six families here, we all belong to the same church, and I will guarantee you, we saw one. You can bet on it.’

So... and this is the... and I found out, because I started asking questions when I was in Vegas about this man and his company, and yes, he is a very wealthy man, and a very, very big company, well known in Las Vegas for buying and selling the hotels, and big, you know, big properties.

And he said, ‘Yeah, I’m just telling you what happened to us.’

BR: And, ah, my suspicion which may well be yours as well...

JM: Say it again?

BR: My suspicion, and it may well be yours as well, is that for every person who comes forward and reports a story, there are hundreds of others who don’t.

JM: Oh, I... probably right. You’re probably right.

BR: There may be a thousand others who don’t, because who is going to come forward publicly and say a story like that? Not many.

JM: Yeah.

BR: And one of the reasons, of course, why I want to encourage you to... [laughs] why I have been supporting you in coming forward to tell these stories, is not only to support David Icke, but it’s to support other people who have had these experiences. Because I suspect that they are fairly wide-spread, and nobody wants to talk about it.

JM: Well, you’re right.

BR: That’s my guess. That’s my guess.

JM: Did you ever talk to Dr. Roger Leir about his case up in Bakersfield?

BR: I don’t believe so. I know Roger Leir...

JM: Yeah.

BR: ...and he’s a very good man. I don’t think I know about the Bakersfield incident. Tell me about it.

JM: Well, I’m just trying to remember the story, basically. If he were here, he would give you the real dope on it, but I’m just remembering the basic story, is that there was a guy up in Bakersfield who is a fire investigator. He’s a fireman investigator for the Fire Department. And he has been having reptile aliens coming into his bedroom. Him and his wife have had reptile aliens, he says, were coming into his bedroom. They didn’t harm him, but he said, he was telling Dr. Leir... Because he called Roger Leir, because Roger is noted for his work with aliens and, ah...

BR: Implants.

JM: ...implants. And so Roger went up to see him, and this is... this guy’s with the Fire Department, as an investigator, arson investigator, for the Fire Department. And he said that the guy was saying that at night, him and his wife are in bed, and the wall, facing them, became like water, and became ... looked like water. And reptile aliens walked through. And when they came through, then the wall became back into a wall again.

And he said, then they stood there looking at him and walking around the room, and he said, ‘We were so frightened out of our wits, we’re just watching these reptile aliens walking around in the bedroom; then we feel this strange feeling again, and the wall becomes like a water.’

And I think it’s interesting that that’s the way, you know, what is it, Star Trek, or whatever it is? The wall looks like water? Well, this was a long time ago this guy was telling... this was a long time ago. And he said the aliens will walk back through again.

So, he said, what they decided to do was they got a towel, large big towels, which were the same color as the carpet. And they – and I’m just trying to remember all of this from the experience – but they glued on the back, or taped on the back aluminum foil, about six or eight sheets of aluminum foil, over and over on top of each other, and taped them on the towel then laid it back over; so the idea was that anything coming through that wall will not see the towel, because it’s the same color as the floor, and would walk, and pressure would be on the aluminum foil, to prove that there was something in that room.

And he said, ‘And sure enough, these things come back, and then a few days later they came back and walked through, and walked around, and looked at him and her in the bed, and then walked back over, and walked back through the wall again,’ and he said, ‘I’ve got ‘em. They stepped on the carpet ... on the towel.’ And he said, ‘Yeah.’

And he’d pick it up, and you could see the imprint of the foot of the three ... I think he said there was like three fingers on the foot. And yet there was a piece of the nail was caught in the carpet, and they took that piece of nail, and they called Dr. Leir, and showed it to him. And they’ve had that little piece of a nail sent to, I don’t know, Los Alamos, it’s some one of those big research laboratories, government research labs?

And they said that this was … it was still alive. It was still living, it was a living tissue, and it was still alive, and that it seemed to be growing. When they got it, as opposed to where it was now, it’s grown in length, so it seems to be growing, even though it’s not connected to the body, it’s still growing.

And ... so that’s just one more story, about reptile aliens.

BR: Did they get any analysis of what this... Was this in the days of DNA tests, when they could...

JM: Well, yeah, you know what? I... He was just telling me this, off the cuff you know, and he didn’t go into much, because I guess we were just talking about reptile aliens and he said, ‘I’m just having some investigation of something that’s going on right now up in Bakersfield.’ But they did get a footprint on the aluminum foil, to show that there was something came through the wall, whatever it was. So...

BR: So these are ... yeah. You’re just confirming that these aren’t apparitions.

JM: Yeah. Yeah. These apparitions actually have weight.

BR: They have rate, yeah. They have weight. They’re very physical.

JM: Because they came through the wall, and their imprint is on the aluminum foil.

BR: Yeah. And they have some kind of interdimensional capability.

JM: Exactly. They have interdimensional capability. They come through, and walk back in, too.

BR: You may remember in the Project Camelot interview with you in September 2009, I believe I shared the story with you that was told to me by Barbara Lamb, and Barbara Lamb...

JM: I know Barbara well.

BR: a very lovely lady...

JM: Yeah. Very.

BR: ...who is a counselor and a supporter to many people who have had very strange ET experiences. And she told me how a reptilian alien had appeared out of nowhere in her bedroom, and had silently held her hand for two minutes before it disappears again ... disappeared again, looking into her eyes, communicating with her that it was friendly, and it had been specially bred to interact with humans to give them the message that not all reptilians were hostile and meant harm. And this was this being’s purpose, and it communicated with Barbara in that way.

JM: Wow.

BR: And so, just to confuse the issue further, I feel honor-bound to report that little story, too, because we mustn’t let or prejudices get the worst of us.

JM: No. You’re right.

BR: And with that little anecdote of my own – or of Barbara’s, let us say – I’m going to very gently close this down, because we’re now at the end of our third hour of tape. It is quarter to four in the morning, even Jordan’s getting tired. I’m exhausted. We’ve [laughs] we both came back from the Vatican just a few days ago...

JM: Yeah, we went to the Vatican.

BR: ...and that’s another story, and poor Jordan doesn’t even know if he’s going to be able to get home or not, because we’ve got a volcano in Iceland that’s doing its thing...

JM: That’s right.

BR: ...because the whole solar system is going into something or other...

JM: Convulsions.

BR: ...that’s activating the Earth, and that’s another story, too. So it’s all happening around here, and in the closing seconds of this tape, Jordan, I want to thank you so much for putting all of this on record, because we haven’t been talking about the Illuminati and the New World Order this time, but we’ve been talking about a different area which is possibly even more important...

JM: Far more important.

BR: terms of sketching out the big picture of which we here on planet Earth may be quite a small part.

JM: Hm-mm.

BR: And my own conviction is that you have certainly had an important role, here. Not only to reveal occult knowledge that has been kept secret from us, but actually to be a communicator about all these subjects, because they’re all connected. They’re all connected.

JM: Absolutely all connected. Yeah.

BR: And we have to understand it all. And... we’re at the closing seconds here. I feel like I’m just about to be whisked off the stage, and I want to thank you again on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of people who will be watching this, so thank you, Jordan Maxwell.

JM: Thank you. Thank you. Been fun.

BR: It’s a wild ride.

JM: No doubt about that.

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Bill Ryan

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